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tv   Stephanie Ruhle Reports  MSNBC  April 15, 2021 6:00am-7:00am PDT

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it needs more time to decide what to do after the fda ask states to temporarily pause using the vaccine over a possible link to extremely rare cases of blood clots. meanwhile, breaking news in the last hour, the biden administration announced new sanctions on russia, specifically on 32 groups and individuals who tried to interfere in the 2020 election. secretary of state blinken overseas right now and we're monitoring that. in the state of minnesota, 24 more people were arrested during a fourth night of protests in brooklyn center over the killing of daunte wright. this comes after the veteran officer involved was charged with second degree manslaughter. and just ten miles away from that is derek chauvin's child, set to resume this morning with one big question -- will chauvin take the stand? that is where we start this morning. morgan chesky, shaquille
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brewster and mary moriarty, hennepin county's chief public defender. i turn to you first. another night of public protest and arrests and the officer being charged. what can you tell us? >> steph, good morning. 24 protests overnight after the fourth night in a row of demonstrations right here in front of the brooklyn center police department. we know the numbers grew over a couple hundred before 10:00, when the curfew was in effect. and we had hundreds of police and state patrol officers converge on the scene. we did not see the tear gas used last night as in prior nights. i think it's important to note the mayor of brooklyn center had gone on record saying he did not believe it was a main way to treat protesters. as a result of a small
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demonstrations we had seen. and as far as kim potter goes, yesterday she turned herself in on the charges of second degree manslaughter. the maximum fine is ten years. we already from the family of daunte wright in response to this. they say this was not good enough for what was clearly in their eyes an intentional act by the officer when she pulled out her sidearm and fired that fatal shot, killing daunte. wait until you hear what his own sister had to say yesterday. >> you should know the difference between a taser and gun. that's what i'm trying to figure out. they took my brother's life for nothing, nothing at all! i feel him here. but in reality, it's gone and i cannot ever see him in person again, feel my brother, give him a hug because they took him from me! they took him from us! >> you can just hear that emotion in her voice.
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we know potter's attorney is declining to comment at this time, however the former officer is expected to her first court appearance today. in the meantime we know the criminal investigation continues by the minnesota bureau of criminal apprehension and right now we still have that national guard presence here outside this police station, and they don't look to be going anywhere any time soon. steph? >> shaq, ten miles away the chauvin trial set to resume this morning. no surprise, defense pushing hard on this argument that floyd died from drugs and other health complications. what can you tell us? >> yes, and they're getting testimony from key witnesses, the former chief medical examiner for the state of maryland. what his purpose was to come up and cast doubt on the case the prosecution spent weeks lating out. instead of saying the death was a homicide as we heard from the medical examiner and other medical professions, he said he
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would rule the death of george floyd to be undetermined, instead of saying it was a gradual death that happened because of the restraints on george floyd, he said it was a sudden death that just happened during the restraints that were on george floyd. i want you to listen to a sense of that testimony that we heard yesterday. >> how did the heart and drugs contribute to the cause of death? >> they were significant or contributed to mr. floyd having a sudden cardiac arrest, in my opinion. that's how i would read it. >> your opinion that mr. chauvin's knee in any way impacted the structures of mr. floyd's neck? >> no, it did not. >> now, at one point he suggested or speculated carbon monoxide pinesing from the positioning of george floyd near the tail pipe of the police car could have also contributed to his death. you heard a very aggressive
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cross-examination are from the prosecution team where they got him to admit he didn't know for sure if the car was running or didn't take into full account the weight or his body weight and gear he's had on that day. or the black-and-forth that played in the courtroom and defense continued to bring witnesses that would create doubt in the case laid out by the prosecution. steph? >> mary, was he successful in casting that doubt? dr. david fowler is the former m.e. from maryland. he didn't see george floyd's body. he doesn't know this case. we know the exact from the actual medical examiner who performed the autopsy. >> i don't think he was effective at all. in fact, when he started talking about carbon monoxide poisoning, and they actually did spend a great deal of time on direct saying is there may -- carbon monoxide poisoning might have been a contributing factor. but on cross-examination the defense -- excuse me, the state
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was able to get him to admit he didn't even know it was squad car was on. and he also admitted there had been no testing on george floyd to determine whether there was carbon monoxide poisoning. and the other thing if there was, it was the police officers who were holding george floyd in that position. he also came across poorly because unlike the other two medical examiners who testified in this case, he was giving opinions about cardiology, toxicology, pulmonology. the other two medical examiners said they would defer to those experts and when he was cross-examined by the state, he acknowledged he didn't have specialized expertise in any of those areas. so i think by the time the state was done cross asking, he came across as a very poor witness. >> shaq, the defense could rest its case as soon as today. that would mean derek chauvin doesn't plan to testify. what do you know? >> well, that's the big
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question, whether or not derek chauvin takes the stand in defense of himself in his own trial. of course, he has the right not to. he has the right not to take the stand and let the prosecution lay out their case but if we see derek chauvin take the stand, it is very likely it will happen today. we know and heard from the judge earlier this week the defense will likely rest their case today or tomorrow and then we will hear the closing arguments begin on monday. then this will be in the hands of the jury. he warned the jury earlier this week to pack a bag when they come to court on monday. >> mary, if you were his defense attorney, would you have chauvin testify? >> i would not. the case hasn't gone particularly well for them. i'm not sure what he could add. i should take a step back. it is his decision, but my advice would be not to testify. he would not do well on the stand i think for two reasons, one is we've seen the state can be very effective in cross-examining and there's a lot to cross ask him about.
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the other thing is, we haven't seen any demeanor from him. it could be helpful if we got on the stand and expressed some emotion or remorse but we haven't seen that from him at all. we haven't seen that from him in his reaction of testimony, we didn't hear it in his voice when mr. mcmillian was challenging him right after this happened. he was calm and kind of cold. if you can't add that human element, that emotion, and he's going to get picked apart on cross-examination, i don't see the benefit of having him testify. >> mary, shaq, morgan, thank you. now i would like to bring in the mayor of st. paul, minnesota, melvin carter. mayor, i want to first get your reaction to the charges against officer kim potter, second degree manslaughter. >> well, good morning, and thank you for having me on. obviously a second degree manslaughter charge isn't as satisfying as something heavier. daunte wright is gone forever and there's no incredible even
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pretending there's a reason why. even if we assess she meant to tase him, we have to ask, is shooting somebody with 50,000 votes of electricity a reasonable expectation over a traffic stop over license plates? so with the deliberate actions, a more weighty charge would be more satisfying. but this is up for a jury to decide and we know how difficult it is to hold a officer for taking a black life. so they will go for a prosecution they could make stick over an acquittal for a weighty charge that ends up being thrown out. >> all of this is happening around your city. tensions couldn't be higher. i know you put a curfew in place. what else are you doing to keep your community safe? >> we put a curfew in place the
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first couple nights because we see people, frankly, not for the protesters but number of people here protesting making powerful and beautiful statements peacefully protesting to say there's no acceptable reason daunte wright should be dead. our community is continuing to process the trauma of george floyd's murder, of the trials we're going through right now and we have a number of people who need healing spaces to process together, to gather together and to be able to speak up and exercise their first amendment rights. so our first goal is make sure we're protecting people's rights to peacefully protest. unfortunately, we also have people who are here to exploit that situation. in st. paul last year, we saw millions of dollars of damage that uprooted black-owned barbershops and neighborhood coffee shops and neighborhood grocery stores. the places where our senior citizens rely on for their medication. obviously, that is a road we
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cannot ever go down again. our goal is to protect the value of lives and livelihoods by ensuring that no one, officer or not, is able to inflict unreasonable violence and escalation on our community members. >> how are you going to do that? what happens next? there's still so much anger practically speaking, what does real lasting change look like in your city and state? >> i think real lasting change has to happen in our city and state. it also has to happen nationwide. this is going to be something that's bigger. we are seeing anger and we should expect anger. when you look at the video, when you look at any of these videos, the only human response is to be angry, is to be traumatized, is to be grief stricken. our goal is to invite people who are resolved to create a better world. our goal is invite those people full of energy that they have to
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get out somewhere and invite them into a process at city hall, invite them into a process at the state capitol, the type of things we've been shouting about for years. we have to end qualified immunity so we know we can hold our officers accountable for actions that fall so below our levels of expectations. we have to figure out how to work more closely with our police departments so our officers know our communities, that when they encounter somebody like daunte wright on the streets they're not scared of him because of who he is or what he looks like but they're part of our community as well and we have to continue aggressively and proactively supporting that relationship, that critical relationship, that has to flow between our officers and our community. that's the only way it works. here in st. paul we advanced what we call community first public safety framework that says we want the officers to have the tools and resources they need to spontd to our most
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critical emergencies. we want social workers and housing providers and those other type of resources available to respond when someone calls 911 because of an issue of crisis or neighborhood concern. we also want to make proactive investments in our neighbors and neighborhoods so we can build a public safety system that starts not with responding as soon as possible after something terrible happens but will prevent something terrible happening in the first place. >> thank you very much, and stay safe to everyone in st. paul, stay safe during this dense time. we are expecting body cam video to be released to the shooting death of a 13-year-old boy in chicago. he was shot march 29th while police were responding to a call about gunfire. prosecutors say the boy had a weapon and was shot when he turned towards the officer. nbc chicago reports toledo's mother said her baby didn't have
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a gun. the family was shown the video footage earlier this week but asked for it not to be released right away >> coming up, more on the breaking news, u.s. hitting russia with sweeping sanctions and the pause continues. johnson & johnson still on hold as the numbers tell us who isn't getting vaccinated and one thin thing they have in common. and how can we prevent what happened january 6th from ever happening again? that's what a watch dog will tell congress today. we just got word about what he will say. do not go anywhere. we have a packed hour. a packed . their only friend? the open road. i have friends. [ chuckles ] well, he may have friends, but he rides alone. that's jeremy, right there! we're literally riding together. he gets touchy when you talk about his lack of friends. can you help me out here? no matter why you ride, progressive has you covered
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coronavirus pandemic. scientists from the fda and cdc are investigating the issues that led to a pause in the emergency use of the j&j covid vaccine, as doctors and federal officials try to reassure the public that the safety and efficacy of the other vaccines. i want to go straight to tom costello for the latest. what are you hearing about how long this vaccine will remain on pause? >> so this outside cdc advisory panel that's now looking at the data on the johnson & johnson vaccine says it will take a week, maybe ten days before deciding whether to allow the vaccine to, again, continue operations if you will, dispersing it, or whether they need to put some sort of a warning on it or for that matter
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cancel it all together. that doesn't seem very slykely. but it is important to note we've now got a seventh women who developed rare blood clots after having the johnson & johnson vaccine. so that's seven cases out of 7 million doses. literally a 1 in a million case here. the cdc and fda stressing this really has been very beneficial to millions of people and the company suggesting the benefits far outweigh the remote risks we've seen with seven people. that said, the cdc and fda wants to do a deeper dive on the data and get more answers if they can. this is all happening, steph, as we've seen a surge in coronavirus around the country. up 25% in 13 states right now, up 62% in michigan. real concern there with many hospitals reporting they're at capacity or approaching capacity already. and the cdc is also suggesting that what part of the problem is
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that people may have let their guard down in michigan. we have younger people being discussed to the uk variant, which you and i discussed is a more serious, more transmissible form of the virus. steph? >> tom costello, thank you. joining us now, former fda commissioner dr. scott gottlieb, also on the board of pfizer. we have to start with johnson & johnson being paused. let's look at the numbers. you have a better chance of being hit by lightning than developing blood clots from this vaccine. how concern are you this pause could erode public confidence in vaccines in general? >> look, i think if the process isn't handled well, it could erode public confidence. what you need is a clear path how to bring this vaccine back. i think it will come back with more language and label about who it should be used for and what doctors should be looking for for these remote side effects. what the fda needs now is a very clear process for how they're going to do it. the pause wasn't a regulatory
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action but recommendation from the fda to the states administering the vaccine to suspend use of the vaccine. so they never took a formal regulatory action. one option is take a formal regulatory action, but the vaccine on hold a short period of time while they review the data and bring it before the fda advisory committee. that would give them a clear end point when it could come back to the market, perhaps with additional labeling for what doctors should be mindful for. i think the challenge is we don't have a clear point now because they're a very good grip, they administer childhood vaccination schedules and make recommendations about pediatric vaccinations primarily, that's the usual job before covid. but they're not the fda's advisory committee that regularly reviews this safety data. >> vaccine hesitancy remains political. it shouldn't be. it's a public health issue. just yesterday the ap has a new report out showing red states are lagging in vaccinations
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behind blue states. we saw ivanka trump post a picture of herself on instagram getting vaccinated, encouraging others to do the same. what did the comments show? hell, no. disappointed in you. why would i want bill gates tracking me? how do you counter this type of vaccine resistance? it all stems from disinformation being poured to millions of americans. >> look, it's going to be difficult. and that's why we're going to get to a point where supply will exceed demand. we will probably get 150 million, 160 million americans vaccinated but once we get to that point, it will be difficult. i'm not saying we won't get beyond it but we will have to chip away. people probably once you hit 150 million or 160 million americans, they're not going to be lining up anymore. that's going to 3re9y much exhaust the really aggressive demand. so you have to push it out to some of the big box stores, make it easier for people to get
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vaccinations, make it for people just walk up and push it out through doctors' offices so people they have a relationship with, intermediaries they have a relationship with. that's how we will get the numbers up. i don't think we will ever get near the whole population vaccines. maybe peak out 100 million adults if we clip away. that's probably enough from a public health standpoint. it's unfortunate some people will forgo vaccinations because we know they're effective. but you're right, there are a group of people in this country reluctant to get the vaccine, in some cases for their own personal considerations or political considerations and we will never pierce everyone. >> doctor, stay with me. i want to go to yasmine in mississippi, a state where vaccines are available and people are not taking them. what's going on? >> i want to tell you, steph, what i'm seeing and what i'm hearing because we're actually at a vaccine center right now where they're having drive-thru vaccinations happening as we
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speak. so let's just whip around here. i want to show folks what i'm seeing. i'm seeing a lineup of cars here. these folks this morning are lining up to get their first and second doses of the moderna vaccine. they're not hesitant at all, right. they've been lining up the last couple hours. i spoke to a woman who was the first in line. she said she you wanted the johnson & johnson, wanted it to be one and done. but now that's put on pause she's here for the moderna vaccine because she wanted to get back to life. she's over 60 and wants to see her family and wants to travel. but you're right, 40% of this state are black americans. there's high degree, steph, of hesitancy in the black community in this state specifically. also amongst white conservative men. some of the reasons that we are hearing on the ground is as you well know because of this pandemic, they have been affected tremendously economically. folks want to get back to work. they don't want to necessary tlak the time off to come and
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get this vaccine. another reason is this state is very rural. you see one house, and it will take ten miles to yet see another home. they have to drive 25, 30 miles to come get this vaccine. by the way, steph, that costs a heck of a lot of money, that's another reason. then there's the idea of trust in government, they have a lack of trust in government. but it's all about relationships, as dr. gottlieb was talking about, it's about relationships and folks they know in the community telling them it's safe. it's okay, i talked to pat chatman, the head of boss lady workforce. she's been employing folks going house to house to try to talk to them about this. have. she said when j&j was paused, it really hit them hard. let's take a listen to her. >> we were all excited because we had so many people committed to taking the j&j.
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and as soon as we informed them that they had taken it off the shelves, they panicked. everybody left. they canceled their appointments. we had local industries that committed to bringing their employees over to get vaccinated and no one wanted it. not that they said i don't want it. they just did not want it or take moderna. they were out. >> steph, you've got to understand the j&j vaccine, it was the vaccine that so many folks wanted here, one, because of brand recognition. they know johnson & johnson, it's a baby shampoo, after all. secondly, one-and-done thing. so the hesitancy, if i'm going to get one, i might as well get the vaccine with one shot. nonetheless, it's all about a ground game, as i mentioned earlier. they have enough supply of the moderna vaccine, so they're hoping by putting billboards up and flyers out and knocking on doors they're going to get as many folks vaccinated as they
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can, despite the hesitancy, steph, in the community. >> scott, before we go, for those who are not going to get this vaccine no matter what, can they get the rest of us sick? every year i get the flu shot. it doesn't bother me if other people don't. >> the bottom line is, a lot of people who are worried about covid either are or will be vaccinated and a lot of people who aren't getting vaccinated are people who were never worried about covid or had covid. i don't think we need to get to 80% of the population vaccinated to something that has herd immunity where this just stops transferring as readily. but we need to get a little higher. once we hit 50% of the population vaccinated, we will be in better shape. israel is about 56% vaccinated and they're seeing their demand fall off as well. it's getting hard to vaccine the incremental patient. i think we will see the same thing here. we will get higher than we are now but then demand falls off and we start pushing this out through nontraditional channels.
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right now we again on people lining up. some people will get it but not enough to go out, go online, make an appointment, jump through the hoops. >> thank you very much. i'm vaccinated and i'm excited. coming up -- the state of the economy. very good signs just in. the eco. very good signs just in. that means expensing nothing but pizza. your expenses look good, and your books are set for the month! ...going up against this guy... and pitching your idea 100 times. no, no, no! no. i like it. -he likes it! ...and you definitely love that. intuit quickbooks helps small businesses be more successful with payments, payroll, banking and live bookkeeping. hey lily, i need a new wireless plan for my business, but all my employees need something different. oh, we can help with that. okay, imagine this... your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot.
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market is up 205, just one
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minute into trading as the day kicks off on wall street. and we have breaking, very positive news, on the job front. u.s. weekly jobless claims dropped to 576,000 last week. that's the lowest we have seen since the early days of the pandemic. at the same time we saw a huge number on retail sales, up nearly 10% last month. motor vehicle sales up 18%, clothing 15%, electronics 10%. all of this with just one quarter of the country vaccinated. all of this with just one quarter vaccinated. we're getting stronger every day. we are well into a recovery it sounds like. >> we are well into it and experts said when you start to have mass vaccinations as part of the overall landscape in america with lockdown restrictions easing, there was going to be a pent-up demand for not just goods and services but
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things like travel and leisure. by the way, you talked about all of the strength in those key sectors out there, a huge part of the surge was an almost 13 1/2% gain in hospitality and leisure, bars and restaurants. people are aching to go back out there and enjoy some of the life they had pre-pandemic. if you factor all of that stuff in, and you guys just had a segment on with regard to the vaccine trajectory in this country. if that continues on its current track, stephanie, we're talking about possibly a huge move higher. it's also again tempered by the fact much of this was being attributed to the stimulus checks that went out as part of the recently passed legislation to give americans more relief. we will see if it happens again in the same way it happened may of last year when we sigh this kind of surge based upon those stimulus checks. >> takes us back to the idea of a v-shaped recovery, yes, you can snap back once we're behind this pandemic. every day the more people vaccinated, the closer we get.
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dom chu, thank you very much. always good to see you. let's turn to breaking news on capitol hill. just a few hours from now the inspector general for the u.s. capitol police will testify on the long list of failures that helped pave the way for the january 6th insurrection. from missed intelligence to lack of planning to expired weaponry. nbc's capitol hill correspondent garrett make digging into this. garrett, first, happen yip belated birthday. i'm sorry i didn't see you yesterday. he next, you have a serious day of work. dozens of issues the ig says needs to be addressed. can you walk us through this? >> yes, steph, i did blierjt day reading, 100-page report put out by the ig yesterday he will discuss today that lays out a myriad of failures by capitol police and their leadership leading up to the attack of january 6th. a lot deals with intelligence and frankly lack of imagination. they weren't prepared for the kind of attack they might see. ignored intelligence that suggests there would be an
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attack on the capitol, the planners of the riot were looking at the tunnels underneath the building, for example. as for the capitol police themselves, inspector general found they had expired ignitions, shields improperly stored and shattered on impact. when the time came during the day when the actual riot was going on, they were ordered not to use some of the most effective large-scale crowd dispersal weapons. so searing report, stephanie, and expect the inspector general to get pick add part on it today. for their part the capitol police say they largely agree with the findings in this report but they will need money and time to fix these problems. >> garrett haake, thank you. and new this morning, in a rare bipartisan move, the senate has overwhelmingly voted 92-6 to open debate on anti-asian american hate crimes bill. all six no votes came from republicans. the legislation would speed up the justice department's review of hate crimes and task the department with coordinating with local law enforcement and community-based groups to raise
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awareness about hate crime reporting. coming up next, we still have a lot to cover in this hour. will vladimir putin pay the price for the massive hack attack and that stunning report of russian bounties on american troops? our breaking new reporting about sanctions just in. and the proposal coming today that would expand the supreme court from 9 to 13, does it have a chance? to join the duers? those who du more with less asthma. thanks to dupixent. the add-on treatment for specific types of moderate-to-severe asthma. dupixent isn't for sudden breathing problems. it can improve lung function for better breathing in as little as 2 weeks and help prevent severe asthma attacks. it's not a steroid but can help reduce or eliminate oral steroids. dupixent can cause serious allergic reactions including anaphylaxis. get help right away if you have rash, shortness of breath, chest pain, tingling or numbness in your limbs.
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you know we'll stop at nothing. we're following breaking news out of the white house, where president biden signed an executive order laying out a range of punishments against russia, expelling diplomats and imposing sanctions, consequences for election meddling, cyber warfare and actions in crimea. all of this one day after the president made another big foreign policy announcement, officially announcing the u.s. will fully withdraw from
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afghanistan by september 11th. and tony blinken is in afghanistan right now where he met with the nation about our two countries. and kristen welker is here and on top of all of this. let's start with the russian news. it shouldn't be a surprise. on the campaign trail biden said, putin, we're coming for you, and now he is. >> steph, you're absolutely right. that was the exact, right framing for this. president biden on the campaign trail as a candidate said russia would pay a price for meddling in the 2020 election, something russia denies. well, today we are seeing what that price is. more than 32 entities and individuals will be sanctioned, ten russian diplomats forced to leave the u.s. also punishments for the hacking of solarwinds, which targeted major u.s. companies and government.
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and they are looking into reports for bounties for u.s. troops. but they are not linking the sanctions to the last piece, steph. biden doing this in concert with allies in the region. i spoke with jake sullivan, the national security adviser a short while ago and asked him if president biden conveyed to president putin this was coming when the two spoke. he indicated yes, that was part of the discussion. president biden was quite frank with him that the united states would be taking some type of action in the wake of learning about the interference in the 2020 election. the bottom line, steph, if you put this into broader context, what does this mean? this is yet another inflection point in this relationship between the u.s. and russia. a critical relationship but which is increasingly tense day by day, steph. >> as far as afghanistan is concerned, the president said it was an easy decision but
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critics, some of even biden's own military, are worried about the threat the taliban could grow stronger again. what does president biden say about that? >> that's right. this decision to some extent overrules some of his own military advisers who were concerned pulling troops out of afghanistan would effectively leave a vacuum and allow terrorists to thrive once again in the region. but when president biden spoke yesterday here from the white house, from the treaty room, the same exact room where former president george w. bush announced he was starting the war in afghanistan, he said he felt as though the mission had been completed, that the u.s. cannot be in a forever war. steph? >> kristen, thank you. let's bring in new jersey democratic congresswoman mikie sherrill, who served in the middle east as a navy helicopter pilot. she was also a russia policy adviser and currently member of the house armed services committee. congresswoman, when all of this news broke, there was no one we wanted to speak to more. thank you for making yourself available. you know russia. you know vladimir putin.
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are these sanctions enough to stop him from trying to interfere in the next election or do we need something stronger? >> stephanie, thank you for having me. i think the sanctions are a good start to show russia that there's a new administration in town, that we aren't going to stand by as they commit cyber hacks on our country, as they interfere in our election, and try to divide our population. i think this is a good start, and it remains to be seen how russia will react to this and if they will understand this as a need for them to kind of clean up their act and be better actors on the world stage. >> is vladimir putin ever going to clean up he's act? come on. >> vladimir putin will likely be looking for different things. he's a former kgb guy. i think that is his mentality. it has been his mentality. he sees the united states and
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russia as engaging in zairio sum gain. so any win by the united states is a loss to russia in his world view. so he will never be an ally of the united states. he's always someone i think we have to watch carefully. i don't think he's very trustworthy. however, i do think he understands -- he understands the power of politics and he understands if he continues these attacks in the u.s. under this administration, the response will be escalated. >> let's turn to the other news out of the white house, do you agree with this decision to leave afghanistan and just as importantly, the way the president is going about it? >> you mentioned two very important things. first of all, is it time to pull out of afghanistan? the answer is yes. we have really, you know, been there for 20 years. it's hard to believe we're going
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to be celebrating -- or sadly talking about the anniversary, the 20th anniversary of 9/11 this september, we have people who have fought in this war and now their children are fighting in this war. it's an intergenerational war at this point. the longest war the united states has been engaged in. we ended the ability of al qaeda to grow terrorism and commit terrorist acts from their base in afghanistan, which was our mission. we captured and killed osama bin laden, the head of that organization. certainly, we need to keep up diplomacy, as the president wants to do. they need to make sure more terrorist cells are not being propagated from afghanistan. but i think you see with the loss of life of too many families spending christmases without their fathers or mothers, too many families struggling through a loved ones
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ptsd, it is time now that we have -- it is time to pull our combat troops out of afghanistan. but you mentioned the second thing that i think is really important, how do i feel about how president biden has done this. this has been done in a way that i feel so much more confident in than under the last administration. president biden himself said he maybe wouldn't have started this process like president trump did but feels the united states has made a commitment and he's honoring that commitment, something that president trump again and again refused to do, honor the u.s. commitment in previous administrations, undermining our standing across the world, undermining our credibility across the world. president biden understands the ramifications of that and is not going to do that. he also has done this in concert with our allies after. after he announced this, our allies announced their own
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withdraws. ment -- we aren't going it alone. we are making sure the people who fought with us, the people who were attacked on 9/11 standing side by side with us to help us protect the homeland, we're good partners with them, we're making sure they have been brought into these discussions and that they are standing, again, shoulder to shoulder with us as we make different decisions and withdraw the combat troops from afghanistan. >> before i let you go, explain what democrats are introducing to expand the supreme court from 9 to 13 justices. are you on board? why do it now as opposed to waiting until after the president's study on the supreme court is finished? >> yes, stephanie, i'm not on that bill. i don't think this is timely. we do need to have a study. i want to look at ways we can ensure that in the future we -- the american people know that our supreme court is chosen, for example, in a more fair way, the
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way mcconnell has done this over his tenure with egregiously inappropriate and unfair. so i think we need to do the study. we need to look at ways of ensuring the public knows that, you know, our justices, those who decide the law, the highest court in the land, are chosen in a fair process. so i think that's important but we need to look at all of the options. i don't think this bill right now is timely. >> congresswoman, thank you for joining us this morning. i appreciate it. coming up -- >> thank you for having me. >> -- the plot to attack michigan governor gretchen whitmer. this morning our exclusive look inside the investigation and shocking glimpse of extremism right here in america. and the chilling warning about what is to come. you managing your diabetes... ...using fingersticks? with the new freestyle libre 2 system, a continuous glucose monitor, you can check your glucose
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now to our series on american extremism. we're learning more of a plot to kidnap and kill michigan governor gretchen whitmer. this morning, one is speaking out for the first time. nbc's stephanie gosk has the exclusive details. >> reporter: angry protesters at the capitol confronting police and demanding to be let inside. but this isn't washington, d.c. this is lansing, michigan, a year ago. a rally organized to protest covid restrictions. as members of the state's militia groups openly taking part. what happened here was less violent than what took place at the u.s. capitol on january 6th. there were some scuffles and one arrest a. seed was planted. among a small group of people, a plan was taking shape to do something much, much worse. the alleged plan was to kidnap the governor and but her on trial for treason, all because of michigan's covid lockdown. >> when that rally took place in
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lansing, i was very concerned about some of the people attending. because i knew who they were. >> reporter: former u.s. attorney mathew schneider was a part of the federal investigative team, now speaking publicly for the first time. they'd been watching the wolverine group, by fall, more than a dozen was arrested. one man pleaded guilty. the rest not guilty. at what point do you switch from, okay, this is just a hairbrain idea, they're just talking to they're getting prepared to commit a crime? >> that is the critical point for law enforcement. when i saw that the folks had actually taken some steps, for example to go and look under a bridge to see if that was a place that they could put explosives to deter law enforcement from coming -- >> that this wasn't just talk? >> correct. >> reporter: according to indictment, some of the planning happened here in the rural home. the group allegedly used the
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property for tactical training. >> target practice on the tires, yeah. anything. >> reporter: she is the township clerk. what was the community's reactions to these charges? >> well, they were horrified and embarrassed. >> reporter: authorities seized an arsenal of weapons, hundreds of guns, thousands of rounds of ammunition, explosives and artillery shells. >> it's one thing to have guns because they are protected under the constitution, explosive devices are not. >> reporter: do you think a high profile trial like this one and potentially if these defendants are found guilty going to prison, do you think that that will limit the number of threats out there? >> well, we can hope so. >> but it sounds like you're not sure it will, necessarily? >> there is no doubt that there will be future acts of domestic terrorism in america. what we need to do is minimize that number to bring that number down. >> a problem, he says, not just for michigan but for the whole
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country. so, one of the most alarming things about this criminal complaint is the description of a meeting that took place in june of last year. not in michigan. but in ohio. and there were more than 13 mitch men who were there or discussing the kidnapping of the michigan governor. they were discussing the kidnapping of other governors and including quote/unquote executing tyrants. now, i specifically asked schneider about that part of the criminal complaint and i said, do you think there is still a risk of that? and he said to me, i think the risk is even higher now. steph. >> stephanie gosk, thank you for this very important reporting. i certainly hope people are paying attention. that wraps up this very busy hour. i am stephanie ruhl. thank you for watching. halle jackson picks up coverage next.
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. it is minnesota front and center as we come on the air. we are live in minneapolis with the derek chauvin murder trial about to pick back up. you see it on the left side of your screen, what could be the final day for the defence to make its case. just a few miles away, you have protesters packing brooklyn center for the fourth night. the former officer that shot and killed daunte wright, making her first court appearance later today, out on bail after second degree manslaughter. sorrow and anger on full display as people gather to remember the


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