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tv   Velshi  MSNBC  April 11, 2021 6:00am-7:00am PDT

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shootings, gun reform is top of mind for president joe biden. on thursday he addressed the epidemic of gun violence by signing multiple executive actions. however, he acknowledged he still needs congress to pass legislation. he was adamant that the gun crisis is far more widespread than just what's reported in the news. >> our flag was still flying at half staff for the victims of the murder of eight primarily asian-american people in georgia when ten more lives were taken in a mass murder in colorado. you probably didn't hear it but between those two incidents, less than one week apart, there were more than 850 additional shootings. >> 850 additional shootings. here's a look at some of the key components in biden's executive actions. new regulations on pistol stabilizing braces which make regular guns much more powerful and more deadly.
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he's asking the justice department to publish model red flag laws which allow for the temporary removal of guns from owners who are considered to be high risk. among other things, it seeks to limit the sale of ghost guns, which are unassembled firearms that are generally untraceable once they're put together. and like clockwork, biden's gun reform initiative has met stiff and immediate resistance from the usual suspects, members of the gop and gun rights groups like the nra. the gun organization tweeting, quote, biden announced multiple extreme gun control actions. these actions could require law-abiding citizens to surrender lawful property and push states to expand gun confiscation orders. that, by the way, is not what red flag laws are but we'll talk about that in a minute. here's what biden had to say about it. >> nothing, nothing i'm about to recommend in any way impinges on the second amendment. they're phony arguments suggesting that these are second amendment rights at stake for
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what we're talking about. but no amendment, no amendment to the constitution is absolute. >> biden also announced the nomination of david chipman, a gun control advocate to lead the bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives commonly knowns as the atf. chipman was an agent for the agency for 20 years. the president's efforts come as firearm sales have reached all-time highs during the pandemic. the vetting of gun owners associated with legal gun sales are shattering records since the start of the new year. the fbi has registered 12.4 million background checks from the start of january through march. in the year 2020 the fbi conducted nearly 40 million total background checks for firearm sales and just over 28 million in 2019. my next guest is at the forefront of the gun reform efforts in this country. last month he led a coalition of 18 states calling on u.s. attorney general merrick garland to close a loophole regarding
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ghost guns, writing ghost guns are quickly becoming the weapon of choice for criminals and fueling the gun violence epidemic. these diy, do-it-yourself gun kits should be subject to the same background checks and qualifications as fully functioning firearms to prevent criminals who are not legally able to purchase or possess guns from getting their hands on these deadly, untraceable weapons. joining me is josh shapiro, the attorney general for the state of pennsylvania. attorney general, good to see you. we have a lot to cover here so let's start, first of all, with these ghost guns. how big a deal are they. these are the idea that you can buy parts and make it at home or 3-d print a gun at home. because they don't come from a regulated manufacturer, they're untraceable because you don't have to put a serial number on them. >> that's part of the story. they're not only untraceable, but most importantly, you do not have to go through a background check to buy one of these ghost guns or 80% receivers.
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ali, let me tell you how it's working in pennsylvania. i think this is indicative of the broader threat that these guns play all across this commonwealth. you have folks who are prohibited purchasers, people with criminal records who can't buy guns, who are going to gun shows in pennsylvania and buying duffel bag loads full of these 80% receivers. and by the way, they're real easy to put together. they come in two parts, they snap together, a couple of screws, you've got a working firearm. but they buy them by the duffel bag. they otherwise for fail a background check. then they go back to their communities and then they sell them on the streets for about 100% profit. in fact we just made a number of arrests in this area in the city of philadelphia. these are quickly becoming the weapon of choice for criminals here in pennsylvania and across the country. give you some data. in philadelphia we've recovered 152% more ghost guns between
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last year and the year before. across pennsylvania, those numbers are up 437%. we're set to shatter those records in 2021. so these are guns you can buy without a background check. as you correctly point out, they're untraceable and they're being used by criminals to wreak havoc all across this country. >> let me ask you about what the nra said in response to the red flag laws, because i want to be clear what those are too. in fact they have received some bipartisan support across this country. a number of states have actually implemented them. the nra says this is a way for law-abiding citizens to have their guns confiscated. that is misleading to the point that it is a lie. red flag laws are about the idea that if someone perhaps poses a threat to themselves or people around them, there can be some intervention that allows the guns to be taken away until they themselves can address this in a court of law and say, no, no,
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that was just a grumpy neighbor or somebody who didn't like the fact that i had a gun. >> yeah, that's exactly right. ali, how many times after a critical incident across the country have policy makers and others taken to the cameras and said, you know, if we only knew or if we only had the ability to take the guns away from this person because they were -- they had mental health issues, for example, or they were a threat to others. well, this actually gives law enforcement the ability to do that and to save lives. the way the nra characterizes this, no surprise, is absolutely false. i would say, however, that there is room for bipartisan agreement. come back to ghost guns for a moment. we recently negotiated a deal with the largest gun show promoter in pennsylvania who was selling these ghost guns at his gun shows. in fact over the first two months of the year they sold 6,000 of them. they estimated that they were on
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pace to sell 40,000 of them throughout the year. we negotiated a deal for them to stop selling these at their gun shows. and guess what, the gun lobby and groups on the left all came together and praised it and said it was the right thing to do. other people who were selling at these gun shows agreed with that. there is room to compromise on this issue. around the central aim that everybody professes to believe in, that we want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. and so i would say that the nra is probably focused on fund-raising to get out of the deep debts that they have created for themselves and so they say these and tweet these wacky extreme things. but 90% of americans at least agree on the idea that we want background checks. we want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. that we want to give law enforcement the ability to keep guns away from those who would use them for harm for others. there is room to come together around this issue. let me be very clear about
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something, ali. it is a choice we are making as a nation in the face of the shootings at the spa in atlanta, in the face of the shootings in the market in boulder, in the face of shootings every single day in the city of philadelphia. it's a choice some are making to do nothing in this country. i refuse to accept that and that's why we're leading on this ghost gun issue and many other issues to try and keep people safe. >> josh shapiro is the attorney general of pennsylvania. josh, as always, thanks for joining us. i want to turn to the start of week three of the murder trial of fired minneapolis police officer derek chauvin. the prosecution is expected to rest this week. so far upward of 30 people have taken the stand several of whom agree that george floyd died last may because he couldn't breathe. >> the cause of death is a low level of oxygen that caused the brain damage and caused the
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heart to stop. >> mr. floyd died from position al asphyxia, which is a fancy way of saying he died because he had no oxygen left in his body. >> the primary mechanism was asphyxia or low oxygen. >> while the evidence and testimony has been overwhelming thus far, nothing is ever guaranteed in these types of trials. in fact if you were a betting person, you would bet that there would be an acquittal. once the prosecution officially rests, the defense, remember, will have an opportunity to counter. joining me now is cynthia aucksne. cynthia, you and i have talked regularly through this trial. based on the compelling testimony and the evidence you have seen and heard so far, talk to me about where you think we are as the prosecution prepares to rest and the defense gets to start its response. >> the prosecution is in a very
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strong case. week one of the trial is really set up as a fact-finding time, but interestingly in this trial it wasn't really about the facts because of the videotape, it was about the emotions. how did it feel to watch essentially the murder of derek chauvin. and by the end of the week if you ever wondered to see what it was like to see an oversear on a mississippi plantation look no further than derrick chauvin. or if you ever wondered what it was like when other slaves must have felt when one of their own was being murdered, look no further than this trial. the expert, mr. tobin, as was fine an expert as i have ever seen. he completely obliterated the
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defense and dealt with what was basically a small issue in the autopsies and set up a very difficult position for the defense going forward. >> so i want to ask you -- >> and there's not going to be an acquittal in this case, i'll telling you right now. the case could hang, no acquittal. >> this is a good point. i'm going to ask my control room to put up the charges that derek chauvin faces here. the work of the prosecution is to get the jury to be unanimous on one of these things at least. count 1 is second-degree unintentional murder. count 2 is third-degree murder. count 3 is second-degree manslaughter. so i think the point you just made, i misspoke there and talked about an acquittal. here's what i was trying to say in a long sentence, that traditionally police don't face serious charges for killing people. that does not mean an acquittal, it means that they may not be able to get a conviction. tell me based on those three
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charges what you think is a possible outcome. >> i think it will be a conviction because i think the case is overwhelming. now, having tried these cases, there's always that juror who wants to bend over backwards to help the police and just says, well, they have a dangerous job. i think that's been overcome in this case in many, many ways. partially because of the other testimony of the police officers in the case. you know, we've had a lot of focus on, oh, even the police chief testified against him. that to me is not the key. the key to me is the 30-year homicide detective who's been on the street 30 years, a white homicide detective comes into this jury and says completely unacceptable. that to me is the pivot not only in this case but perhaps going forward in other police cases. his sergeant, the first person on the scene, white, many years of experience. what he did was unacceptable. that is the pivot in police
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cases that we can hope to look forward in the future. it's very, very consequential. >> if you're derek chauvin or derek chauvin's lawyers right now and you're seeing the way this is going and you know what's available to you because it's your team, is there anything he can do right now? might he consider a plea? you had suggested that earlier in the trial, that maybe it's worth derek chauvin reconsidering going through with this. do they have choices like that now? can they go to the judge or the prosecution and say i want to talk? >> they can go. he can plead to the indictment and basically just throw his hands up and give it to the judge. i just don't see that probably as happening at this point. were i a prosecutor, i wouldn't give him any deal after you're at this point in the trial. he's got a very good expert coming forward. the problem is, he's undermined that so much by the manner in
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which he's tried the case. so he's in big trouble. as he should be. >> cynthia, thank you for your continued analysis. we'll have much more opportunity to talk over the next few weeks on this one. cynthia is a former federal prosecutor and an msnbc legal analyst. we'll continue to cover this trial. we've got much more coming up on "velshi." in the aftermath of the attack on the capitol, former advisor to vice president mike pence, olivia troye, is one of 140 signatures on a letter calling for a 9/11-style commission to investigate the insurrection. she'll join us later this hour. plus republican lawmakers around the country targeting transgender people in a series of bills this week. we'll speak with arkansas's first transgender elected official on what this signals on trans rights. while the battle against covid is ramped up against biden, economic recovery is still a ways away. much more "velshi" right after this. much more "velshi" right ar this are your crispy currency to pay for bites of this...
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more than a year into the pandemic and unemployment is still ravaging our country. last week 744,000 americans filed for first-time jobless benefits which was well above expectations. that's up 16,000 people than the week before. we can all agree that unemployment has vastly improved in recent months, but we're still far from pre-pandemic levels and the economy still has a long way to go. this may sound off because we're seeing millions of vaccinations take place and covid restrictions are being loosened across the country, but the latest batch of unemployment claims surpasses some of the united states' worst weeks during the great recession. let me put some of these numbers into context. the march jobs report blew away expectations. the u.s. added almost a million jobs with food, hospitality and construction industries all benefitting big. >> but as we get the economy back on its feet, we need to do the hard work of building back
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better, for good, not just the short term but for good. >> but the full story of the u.s. economic recovery is more complicated. take the unemployment rate. it fell to 6% in march, lower than what it was for most of twepgt 20 2020 but much higher than pre-pandemic levels. there's a weekly metric that is particularly concerning, the number of initial jobless claims. more than 700,000 americans filed for first-time unemployment benefits last week. that's still more than any weekly total recorded during the great recession. think about it this way. our current jobs crisis today in this recovery is still worse than the worst of the great recession in 2009. here's another way to visualize it thanks to this chart from bill mcbride at calculated risk blog. this shows the decline in total employment in every recession since world war ii and how long it took to recover to previous
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job levels. here's the depth of the great recession and here's where we are today, still more than 5% below the peak of employment last february, even after this latest strong jobs report. >> we're still in a profound recession. it's not over yet. >> long-term unemployment also appears to be growing much faster than it did in 2009, according to the pew research center. as of february, four in ten unemployed americans were out of work for more than six months, and the national bureau of economic research says the pandemic recession is actually more of a shecession. not only are women losing more jobs than men but they're also working fewer hours. that's a stark contrast to the great recession when women's employment actually increased compared to men. >> i think this was the worst recession in my lifetime. i think this was worse than the 2008-2009 financial crisis. when you see a shock of this
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magnitude, as someone who's studied economic crises over the centuries, sometimes it just changes things in very surprising ways. hopefully we're going back to a better place, but we may not be going back to the same place. >> well, 95 days after the attack on the capitol, the nation calls for a commission to investigate the siege are growing. former top aide to former vice president mike pence olivia troye is one of 140 people to sign a letter demanding congress to do just that. she joins me next. r demanding cs to do just tha t. she joins me next. after my dvt blood clot... i was uncertain... was another around the corner? or could things take a different turn? i wanted to help protect myself. my doctor recommended eliquis. eliquis is proven to treat and help prevent another dvt or pe blood clot. almost 98 percent of patients on eliquis
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on january 6th, we saw thousands of extremists storm the united states capitol. and because of video that they themselves took in many cases and posted on social media, we know what they were looking for. listen to this. >> fight for trump!
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fight for trump! >> we've been invited by the president of the united states. >> let's tell trump what's up. just say we love him. we love you, bro. we're fighting for trump. >> all right. we're fighting for trump. here's the tricky part. there's some new polling out that indicates that 55% of republicans actually believe that the riot was started by, quote, violent left-wing protesters trying to make trump look back. the same survey found that 80% of the party wants a trump 2024 presidential campaign. 140 former national security, military and elected officials have urged congressmen to set up a commission very much like the 9/11 commission that was set up to investigate those attacks into the january 6th attack. they say in their letter, quote, january 6 exposed severe
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vulnerabilities in the nation's preparedness for preventing and responding to domestic terrorist attacks. the immediate security failings that permitted a lethal broach of the capitol context by armed extremists raised serious questions and demand solutions. a national commission is not only appropriate but a critical component of the national response. one of the 140 signatories to that letter is olivia troye. he began her service in government following the 9/11 attacks. she was a homeland security and counterterrorism advisor to vice president mike pence. most of you know her because she shifted over to coronavirus response, but in fact her specialty is domestic terrorism and anti-terrorist activities. olivia, good to see you. thank you for joining us. and before we get to this letter, something tied to it has happened just last night. our reporter, monica alba, has confirmed that at a republican fund-raising event, donald trump
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referred to mitch mcconnell as a dumb sob, calling him a stone cold loser and said this, which is interesting. a real leader would have never accepted the results of the election last november. donald trump continues to this day to deny that he lost that election and continues to perpetrate a big lie that led to that january 6th insurrection at the capitol. so it is still not over and you saw those numbers of the number of republicans who believe that that rioting, that insurrection at the capitol, was caused by left-wing violent extremists. >> right. hi, ali, good to see you again. i think the fundamental problem is that republican voters who are seeing this and are saying, yeah, we believe this, they're believing the lies that they're being told by so many republican elected officials in office right now, by the people that led that charge that led to january 6th. and so what you have is donald
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trump once again throwing one of his own under the bus. i say own very loosely because we all know that donald trump only uses people around him and he uses -- has used the republican party repeatedly to further his agenda and get what he wants. and so here he is calling out mitch mcconnell, calling him names, going after him on a full-on attack. my question is at what point does mitch mcconnell say enough? i'm going to take a stand against this. i'm going to unite the republicans. so few and far between principled republicans have remained in office right now and pull them together and start to pull away from this extremist rhetoric, this dangerous rhetoric that is impacting national security directly. we saw that happen on january 6th with the attack of the capitol and walk away from it and call it out for what it is and start telling people the truth. because that is what matters. americans need to hear it from their own leaders themselves.
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>> and this speaks directly to this letter that you signed calling for a commission. on one hand, i'm thinking, look, 9/11 you needed that commission because there were absolute intelligence failures that went on. there was an absolute failure of coordination between those intelligence agencies, which ultimately led to the decision to make a homeland security department. but in this case i'm thinking why do we need a commission? we all saw with our own eyes what happened. but on april 10th last night the president of the united states continues to lie about the things that led to this insurrection so maybe we need something like a national commission to be put forward in a bipartisan fashion and go out there and let americans know what really happened and why it happened. >> i think the 9/11 style commission that was done after the events of 9/11 which were horrible and tragic, we had an attack on our democracy on january 6th. this was a major event at a government institution, the u.s.
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capitol, the symbol of our freedom. and i would say a commission would be a fact-finding mission that would really just lay out who led to the events on january 6th. who was a part of it? we've seen that there has been coordination among some of these far right extremist groups. who are they? what is happening here domestically and what does it mean going forward? what do we learn from the events of that day? what failures happened so we don't repeat this again. so we learn from it and fix whatever systemic failures in place are there that need to be fixed in order to protect americans. and the republicans should want to investigate and get to the bottom of this because it affects national security and it affects all of us. and so i don't know why republicans would stand in the way of a nonpartisan, bipartisan commission with independent experts just looking at the facts so that we can tell americans this is what really happened that day and clear the record and set the record straight. >> but the fact is, you know
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they will. you know they will object to it. so how do you manage this, you and 140 others. i'm sure if you gave it another few days there would be a thousand others. but how do you manage getting president biden to create a commission that republicans or these people that we just saw this poll about don't automatically say this is a witch hunt, this is an anti-trump thing, those were left-wing antifa blm people at the capitol. how do we succeed in making this feel bipartisan? because after 9/11 there was not a partisan split on the failures that led to 9/11. today there really is. >> well, and i would take it one step further and say we are in a very complicated world where misinformation is rampant and we have networks that are pushing misinformation in an echo chamber to their supporters and people who tune in and listen to it. and so i think the only way that we can move forward and really figure out what happened is to
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have some of these republican leaders like mitch mcconnell come forward and say this is the right thing for our country. we will get to the bottom of this and we will share the results with you in a nonpartisan, independent manner. and it matters because these investigations are complementary to law enforcement investigations, they're complementary to the work that congress would be doing. i think it's time to come to the table, put your politics aside and say, yes, we need to get to the bottom of this because if not, what we are doing is we are emboldening these types of networks and they will continue to do these kinds of attacks, that we know. this commission -- the call for the commission in this letter, what i think americans should understand is these are national security leaders. these are former secretary of defenses, secretary of homeland security that have served in both republican and democratic administrations. these are ambassadors. these are republican and democrat elected officials,
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former elected officials and national security officials like myself who have served throughout several administrations in our careers saying we need this. we need to look at this, it needs to be a fact-finding mission so that america can really understand what happened outside of whatever politicians or whatever networks are telling you, these are the facts. that's all we can do at this point is start getting to the bottom of the facts. >> olivia, thank you for giving us those facts and for the work that you're doing in pursuit of this. olivia troye is a former homeland security and counterterrorism advisor for former vice president mike pence and the director of the republican accountability project. up next, republican state lawmakers have been busy pushing a record number of bills targeting transgender people and specifically trans youth. in fact more than half the country's state legislatures have already passed or are currently weighing bills aimed at curbing transgender rights. we'll talk to arkansas's first elected transgender official about what's at stake.
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this has been a key week for transgender rights activists as they're battling legislatures in multiple states that are seeking to restrict rights in the community. right now a bill in kansas is headed to the governor's desk that bans transgender student athletes from competing in k through 12 girls sports and college women's sports. democratic governor laura kelly
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has a history of supporting lgbtq rights and could very well veto the bill. however, she hasn't yet indicated what she will do. of course there is arkansas. this week a law passed that made arkansas the first state to ban gender-affirming treatment for transgender youth. republican governor asa hutchinson vetoed the bill but his veto was overridden in the following days. in a "washington post "op-ed he stated that the bill would be a vast government overreach in its attempt to come between a family and their doctor. in the days before he vetoed the bill, hutchinson met with members of the tran gender community, including the state's first transgender elected official. that would be evelyn stafford and she joins me now. she is justice of the peace in washington county, arkansas. thank you for being with us this morning. >> thanks for having me. >> i want to understand -- you would understand this better
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than anyone -- does meeting people with the lived experience, with the lived transgender experience, does it influence people like asa hutchinson or people who have preestablished views about how they should legislate the lives of transgender people? >> i think it does. you know, to be honest, i was actually kind of surprised that governor hutchinson vetoed the bill. and i think that i have to credit the fact that he, i think, did his research. he had a variety of meetings. he met with health care officials, he met with myself and a young 18-year-old trans woman who came out in arkansas public schools at the age of 13 and went through one of the very procedures that this bill now bans. and i think, you know, in the -- unfortunately the arkansas legislature didn't do the same kind of homework that the governor did. in the committee meetings and
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things like that leading up to the bill, trans people and the voices of trans people and their families were really sidelined while they allowed, you know, hate groups plenty of time to spread misinformation and things like that. unfortunately, this whole thing has been a well-funded campaign by hate groups, the same ones who lost the battle over marriage equality are pushing these cookie cutter bills in multiple states and doing it on the basis of junk science, fear mongering and things like that, and talking about surgeries on young children which never happen. and never would happen. and they're ginning up heath. we had transyouth abominations on the house floor which is awful for young people and their families to hear. these aren't the people that we should be listening to when it comes to science and medicine.
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one of these same legislators later in the week in a debate over covid-19 talked about how he was taking industrial cow dewormer to fight off covid-19. so we should be not listening to them, we should be listening to mainstream medical experts who are saying this is best practice medicine. >> so i'm -- i have mixed feelings about governor hutchinson and what he did. on one hands there was real compassion in his op-ed, real compassion for children and for trans people. on the other hand, this wasn't pro-trans action on his part, it was libertarian action. he said hb-1570 puts the state as the definitive oracle of medical care, overriding parents, patients and health care experts. while in some instances the state must act to protect life, the state should not jump into the middle of every medical, human and ethical issue. this is a vast government
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overreach. i'm sure you'll take that as the win, but is that the reason we should fight pack on these anti-trans things that the government shouldn't be involved in stuff, or are you happy with that justification? >> well, there was a moment in my meeting with the governor where we were talking about some of the other bills that he already signed. he asked my opinion about them. i was like you already signed them. but there was a moment where i said to the governor, i was like i thought republicans were supposed to be the party of small government and here we've got nine bills in all in our state that are doing everything from reaching in between families and their doctors, they're reaching in between teachers and their students because there's a bill to allow teachers to misgender students. they're reaching in between coaches and their teams. they're reaching into bathrooms. you know, they're reaching into every aspect of life and collectively they're just trying
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to make life impossible for trans people in this state, especially trans youth. so i mean in a state like arkansas, i almost feel like the best thing that could happen right now is for legislators to just leave us alone in a way. >> okay, that's interesting. i really wanted to hear how you felt on the trans positive legislation versus, yeah, leave us alone. let me ask you one thing. for all these lies that are being spread about 14-year-old boys who decide that they want to be girls so that they can win a swimming competition. these are some bs laws being implemented across the country. this stuff doesn't actually happen. nobody has ever questioned or wondered about or wanted to be somewhere else on the gender spectrum to win a sporting event. >> no. and that's completely ridiculous because you go through -- you know, there's rules in place already like with the ncaa and
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other athletic organizations that spell out who can compete and under what conditions and under hormone therapy and different things like that. nobody is going to go through all that just to win a competition. you know, here in arkansas, the law -- the sporting law, and i told the governor this, why did the law, if it's really about fairness, why did the law cover kindergarteners? because between kindergarten and puberty, there's no difference in athletic ability between boys and girls. and so i think that really puts the lie to what these kind of bills are all about. >> thank you for your work on this front and thank you for joining us to help make this a lot clearer for my audience. evelyn rios stafford is a justice of the peace in washington county, arkansas. we appreciate you being here this morning. here's an update from capitol hill. there is no update because the
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filibuster is still in place and bills are not being passed. jonathan cape hart will get into it with a former senate minority leader among other things. what have you got, my friend? >> we've got a lot to cover today including donald trump's message last night to the republican faithful and why the gop is still enthralled to the twice impeached former president. plus, former senate majority leader harry reid is on the show live talking about the filibuster fight. we'll talk about all sides of the debate and we'll also be talking about so-called vaccine passports. that's just a sample of what we've got coming up on "the sunday show," ali. >> how did that become a thing? i'm fascinated that we've spent more than a year talking about these somewhat annoying pieces of paper you put over your mouth or pieces of cloth. i can manage wearing a mask if it will keep people well. how did vaccine passports become a cultural issue? >> you know, ali, i wish i knew. we're talking about safeguarding the health care of everyone, the health and safety of everyone, and somehow it's become a flash
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point. >> amazing. jonathan, i'm looking forward to watching the show. jonathan capehart, the sunday show gets started at 10:00 a.m. eastern. overnight democratic state legislators in maryland enacted sweeping police reform after overriding not one or two, but three vetoes by the state's republican governor. i'll talk to the mayor of baltimore about it, next. plus a black army officer now suing a virginia police department over yet another incident of unnecessary police brutality. how it all unfolded, next. stay with us. ext. stay w ith us
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get out of the car! >> what's going on? >> get out of the car now! >> what's going on? what's going on is you're fixing to -- >> you received an order. obey it. >> i'm honestly afraid to get out. >> yeah, you should be. get out. >> back up. >> whoa.
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hold on. what's going -- hold on. i don't -- >> get out of the car and get on the ground now. >> take your seat belt off and get out of the car. >> according to a new lawsuit and body camera footage, they pulled their guns and pepper sprayed kara nazario who is black and latino. joining us is vaughn hillyard. what we see appears to be just the tip of the situation. i just want, for the viewers who couldn't catch it all, they're telling him to get out of the car. he had his seat belt on. he said i'm afraid to get out of the car. he was afraid if he takes his hand and puts it on the seat belt, the thing that happens to a lot of black men in the hands of police was going to happen to him. >> one of those two officers
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responded to the lieutenant by saying, you should be afraid. this is over the course of five minutes of tough video to grapple with and to watch. it was on the evening of december 5th when the lieutenant was going down a highway just outside of norfolk. these two officers say they turned on their lights and, at that point, for the next 100 seconds, followed the lieutenant to a gas station. the army lieutenant says that he didn't pull over immediately because he wanted to get to a well-lit area. that's when you see this tough video. they draw their guns on him. he eventually is let out of the car after being pepper sprayed and then at that point they put his face to the ground. ali? >> have you had a response from the police yet? >> nbc news has reached out to the police department as well as these two officers. and they have not responded to nbc's requests at this time. >> vaughn, thank you. we appreciate you giving us an update on this.
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vaughn hillyard coming to us from d.c. on this story. we'll stay on it. the democratic-led legislature in the state of maryland overrode three vetoes by republican governor larry hogan to enact one of the most sweeping police reform packages in the nation. the measures limit the amount of force officers are able to use saying force must be necessary and proportional. it modifies the use of no-knock warrants which ultimately led to the death of breonna taylor and also repeals the maryland law enforcement bill of rights which has been one of the biggest impediments to police accountability in the state. governor hogan said he used his veto power on friday because the intended purpose of the laws have been overtaken by political agendas that do not serve the public safety needs of the citizens of maryland. and they would, quote, further erode police morale, community relations, community relationships and public confidence. for more on this i'm joined by brandon scott, the democratic mayor of baltimore.
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a man who some, mayor, call reckless and crazy for the things that you would actually like to do with baltimore police. you, obviously have been called that by the governor. >> yeah, and it's unfortunate. we are thankful and grateful to the great work of our state senate and state delegation. we are grateful for the speaker and senator for taking the necessary steps to move us forward. the first state to have the officers bill of rights. we talk about reimagining public safety before the unfortunate deaths of breonna taylor and george floyd, there was freddy gray here in baltimore five years ahead of that. we've been undertaking this, reimagining public safety point of view, and that's what we're talking about doing. what the governor is calling a reckless, is me simply saying that our city that has budgeted
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solely the burden of are deucing public safety and safety for the neighborhoods is no longer going to do that. we're going to do if in a responsible way. we're not just talking about ad hoc getting rid of, defunding, all of these things are the points he's made. what we're talking about is, one, fully committing to our federal dekreeg to reform our police department. two, putting together a group of people who can look at how our police department is budgeted. in a city that has johns hopkins hospital and ten other health and mental health institutions, if anyone can -- it shouldn't go to them in the first place. it's us. not to mention that our federal consent decree for our police department says that we have to reduce the burden on our police department. the governor simply doesn't understand because he's never
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lived it the way i did. he didn't grow up in a neighborhood where he saw a shooting before his 10th birthday and then he's not had a gun pointed in his face. we have to reimagine public safety, not just here in my city but around this country and it's not about eliminating police, but it's about making people do what they are trained to do. and when you see videos like the one we just saw, where someone who serves and protects this country is scared to get out of his vehicle because he's a black man being pulled over in the south on a dark road. he had to drive to a gas station? that should be a message to everyone. being a black man in this country is exhausting. you have to watch your back at every turn from police, other folks, and this is about how we can bring this country together, in this moment like we have, never before. and finally do the right thing. >> and you are talking about bringing in more health professionals, more social
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workers, more mental health professionals, things like that, that can get into that process alongside police, if necessary. and do the things police are not well trained to do. >> yeah. and it's really simple. we know that policing our way out of problems is not going to work. i was born in 1984. baltimore, one of the most violent cities and the pour more money into the police department. we're in 2021 and we're still -- we know we can do other things. it's not about eliminating them. it's about reducing the burden to stop overrelying on police departments so that we can impact. it's about healing. it's about any city that we lose more people to overdose than we do to gun violence. we should be dealing with those folks, having our professionals help out, and we can do not that and we'll start here in baltimore. >> mayor, good to see you. thank you for joining us. mayor brandon scott of maryland. that does it for me. thank you for watching "velshi."
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i'm back here next saturday and sunday morning from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. eastern. do not go anywhere because "the sunday show" with jonathan capehart starts right now. have yourself a great week. trump is on the attack against fellow republicans while republicans are on the attack against everyone else. michael steel explains what on earth is going on. a lesson in dealing with the filibuster and the joe manchins of the world from former senate majority leader harry reid. he joins me live. and my legal panel previews derek chauvin's defense. brace yourself. i'm jonathan capehart. this is "the sunday show." this sunday, the republicans are at it again. last night, the former guy, he gave an ho


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