tv The Reid Out MSNBC April 9, 2021 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT
you can re-use. a little news we can use. elise and brad, thanks for ending the week with us. >> thrilled to have. thanks for having me. a lot of fun and have fun this weekend. get out there. >> yes, sir. you, too, brad paisley. elise, thank you very much. >> thanks, ari. >> all learned good penny etiquette if nothing else. thanks. that does it for "the beat" see you monday 6:00 p.m. eastern and "the reidout" with joy reid starts now. were good evening, everyone. we've got a big show for this friday night and in a little while talking with former obama speechwriter john fabbro. and cnn anchor don lemon is here. crossing the networks, talking about his new book on race in america. matt gaetz facing mounting pressure the first republican lawmaker has called on him top resign. the house ethics committee says it is opening an investigation
into his conduct. also brand new details about the federal investigation. but we begin "the reidout" in a minneapolis courtroom. two weeks into the trial of former police officer derek chauvin. the medical examiner who conducted the autopsy of george floyd took the stand. dr. andrew baker's autopsy ruled floyd's death a homicide. floyd died because his heard and lungs stopped functioning rile being restrained by police. something he reiterated today. >> in my opinion, the law enforcement subdue restraint and neck compression was more than mr. floyd could take. >> the defense, however, is overlooking that finding focusing on other contributing factors from the report. like floyd's heart disease and past drug use. the doctor testified they way have played a role in floyd's beth, the ultimate cause is not in doubt. in fact, he saw nothing wrong with floyd's heart during the
autopsy. >> did you take a photograph of mr. floyd's heart still intact? >> no, i did not. >> would you tell the jury why not? >> i don't normally photograph organs that appear to be perfectly normal. >> did you find any previous damp to his heart muscle? >> no. mr. floyd had no visible or microscopic previous damage to his heart. mr. floyd's use fentanyl did not cause the neck restraint. >> prosecution appeared concerned ahead of baker's testimony given his report made no mention of oxygen deprivation, which the prosecution has been pressing home to the jury as the cause of floyd's death. they called numerous medical experts to testify ahead of baker to make that case, including a forensic pathologist this morning. who helped train dr. baker. dr. lindsey thomas. she complained it wasn't surprising that the low level of oxygen did not show up in the autopsy report. >> the primary mechanism was
asphyxia or low oxygen, and it basically is mr. floyd was in a position, because of the sub dual, restraint and compression where he was unable to get enough oxygen in to maintain his body functions. >> are the findings on autopsy that suggest low oxygen as a cause of death? >> no. there's nothing on autopsy that shows low oxygen. >> there's no test that can be done for low oxygen on autopsy? >> no. >> dr. thomas added that she saw no evidence that george floyd would have died that night, except for the incident with those police officers. a crucial point. now, at the end of the trial's second week we've heard from 35 witnesses including eyewitnesses to floyd's death, choevin's former police colleagues and including the police chief and a number of medical experts. the prosecution is expected to
rest its case early next week. joining me, a former law professor and dr. bernard pash buy a vascular cardiologist and like will you a cardiologist in-house tonight. leading into dr. baker's testimony, it feels like what the prosecution was doing, setting up to almost rebut what she saw in the autopsy. despite what was in the autopsy didn't mention low oxygen focus on all the oxygen taken away from jf. what they got, seemed to reinforce their case. take a listen. >> in my. >> man: -- unchanged what i put. complicated law enforcement sub dual restraint and neck compression. top line therchd and stays my top line now. >> so if you look at the other contributing conditions, those other contributing conditions
are not conditions that you consider direct causes? is that correct? >> they are not direct causes of mr. floyd death. true. therapy contributing causes. >> in terms of manner of death you found then and do you stand by today that the manner of death of mr. floyd was as you recall it homicide? >> yes. i still classify it as a homicide today. >> so this is important, reexplain this to us in lay person's terms. if someone is not getting air going through their body, that means their heart can't pump and, therefore, does it make sense to you that on the death certificate or autopsy report it says because they're heart stopped? >> joy, thanks for having me, and, finally get a chance to use my models here in the background i always have. this is a heart. right? and the defense team made a lot of hay about the coronary artery
disease he had, which is related to the blockage of these arteries here or the narrowing actually. they weren't actually blocked. basically what george floyd had was, you know, this disease which is plaque near the arteries in one artery here and some of the arteries had blockages about that level. and so essentially what the defense was doing what was we call reaching. meaning there they were grasping for straws to find out some other way he could have died. no different than him being shot and bleeding out. this threshold for tolerating a gunshot wound is lower because he has underlion co-morbidities. what saw here. a knee to the neck. not getting ex-jin. sorry. knee to the back and neck not getting oxygen, in addition the carotid artery could have also had that plaque i mentioned there and lowered his threshold for a brain injury.
essentially the defense team was trying to come up with anything else other than the fact than what derek chauvin did contributing to the death, or i should say caused the death of george floyd. >> and absolutely, it does seem, paul, because they don't need to convince all of these jurors that it wasn't solely what, you know, that officer chauvin did. just need to convince one to hang the jury. convince one they don't want to go along with it and raise doubt maybe in enough of them to get him free of this crime. the other thing they really tried to do make it sound like george floyd was having his own drug overdose. almost as if the police officer happened to come upon him having a drug overdose and derek chauvin laying on top of him and 93 pounds on his back had nothing to do with it. he really was just having a drug overdose. let me ask you listen to dr. lindsey thomas, forensic pathologist who testified in
advance of the other doctor. >> usually drug overdoses are accidental unless intent in which case it is suicidal. >> if the manner of death is determined to be homicide, does that, in your opinion as a medical examiner, rule out a death by accidental drug overdose? >> yes. >> i mean, that was really definitive, paul. >> yes. joy, prosecutors don't have the to prove chauvin's actions were the only reason mr. floyd died, just what chauvin did was a substantial factor. the dispute between the prosecution and the medical examiner is about asphyxia. it's the prosecution's lead theory and so far all of the other medical experts including dr. thomas supported that. the defense wants to act like the medical examiner and the prosecutor are in this big beef about what really killed george floyd, but it's really not all
that, but if the defense can blow up the tension between baker and the other medical experts like dr. thomas, they hope that they can create reasonable doubt. they would say to the jury if these well-qualified medical experts can't agree on what killed mr. floyd, that's reasonable doubt, and you should acquit chauvin. >> dr. ashby, you watched the trial today. i did not see a lot of difference between what dr. thomas and dr. baker were saying. did you? >> i didn't see any difference. to the point made, yes, contradicting factors. the consensus artery pulmonary arrest, we all pass away, no difference what's so ever, and, you know, it is what it is. i mean, derek chauvin definitely cause the death of george floyd.
>> just to be clear, dr. ashby, you are the expert, the cardiologist on resident with us here. if you're lying on your stomach, because one of the things the defense tried to do, say, lying prone is not inherently dangerous, as if he was just laying on the beach? at one point made an analogy of laying on the beach, which is insane. he wasn't laying on the beach, it's theoretic. it is dangerous to lie on your stomach with like 90 pounds of weight pressing you down. >> agreed. and pathologist said as much yesterday. you had a gentleman on the ground, prone position, hands tied behind his back, knee on his back limiting his ability to get oxygen, severely compromised and led to his ultimate demise. >> i feel like the testimony so powerful dr. baker referred i would ask the pulmonologist
that. that goes to the pulmonologist, dr. tobin, so effective yesterday. what do you anticipate the closings to look like? looks like the prosecution is wrapping up this case. do you think they've left anything out in terms of the way they've tried to argue this case? >> the prosecution has to prove that tobin used excessive force. they've had ten police officers say that what chauvin did, violated his training, and violated the criminal law. they have to prove what chauvin did caused the death of mr. floyd. they have three medical experts who have all testified to that point. the defense is throwing every cause of death but chauvin as a medical expert. a meth overdose? fentanyl overdose? maybe it was covid-19, the
evidence is absolute. no. it was your client, derek chauvin that caused mr. floyd's death. >> yeah. dr. ashby, they keep using theoreticals. found him in his house and in that condition, you'd think it was a drug overdose. i mean, if you'd found him at the beach -- but they didn't find him on the beach or in his house. you found him underneath derek chauvin. so i -- i find that odd. ip know for you as a man of science, did you find it strange how many times they tried to basically pick george floyd's body up and put it in other locations where it was not? >> again, this goes back to the reaching that i mentioned. they were grasping at straws. the video is compelling in and of itself, and they're trying to basically get away from that. one other point was, at one point another officer checked his pulse. he did not have a pulse, yet derek chauvin maintained his knee on the neck. at that point, he was -- he
didn't have a pulse. they are obligated to render aid at that point and they did not. >> jus before i let you go, dr. ashby, something with no pulse, three minutes is it generally possible to revive them? they're trying to make the case, just holding him waiting for the ambulance, but if you haven't had a pulse for at least three minutes, doesn't that essentially mean you have died? >> well, it really depends. everyone has a different threshold, and essentially you have, you know -- what we describe as a meaningful neurological recovery. so depending how old you are, your underline be morbidities, bringing back a heartbeat, chances of making a full recovery becomes less and less over time. we can't answer that. suffice to say if they would have provided aid or cpr at that
time, his chances of surviving wore have been much higher rnts. >> and they clearly did not. paul butler thank you very much. dr. bernard ashby with the model to make sure we get a full education. my favorite thing. i love to get a good education on the show. thank you for doing that. you guys have a wonderful weekend. all right. still ahead, on "the reidout," new developments in the ever widening gaetz sex crimes investigation including the first republican lawmaker to call for gaetz' resignation. plus you've heard about the progressive caucus, right? looks like a new caucus of conservative demes is forming. we're calling it the no progress caucus and they're prime candidates for today's absolute worst. later on, cnn anchor dom lemming -- don lemon and his new
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last night congressman adam kinzinger of illinois became the first republican lawmaker to publicly call on republican matt gaetz to resign calling he's in a federal sex crimes investigation. and the how ethics committee is opening an investigation of its own citing a laundry accounts stated public pi. gaetz saying these are false and not validated by a single human being willing to put their name behind it. however, defections from his staff. a second senior aide resigned last friday. this time his legislative director considered among the highest of any congressional office. according to one of three sources cited by the "times"
that aide told a an associate he was interesting in writing bills not articles tore tmz. this appears wider in scope. now we're aware of since last week on the basic of public reporting to date, aware of four different avenues of investigation. sex with a minor, paid for sex, accepted paid escorts in exchange for political access or favors during a trip to the bahamas and the latest focused on a reported conversation running a spoiler candidate in a florida state senate race. that last aspect of the probe was reported last night by the "new york times." which notes that the line of inquiry in question is in its early stages. gaetz denied conduct over investigation and tonight rearing his head again after a period of relative silence since that weirdly uncomfortable
tucker carlson interview he seemed to drag the fox news host into the mire with him. as we speak the embattled congressman is at the president's florida golf club delivers remarks to the trump group women for america first. if that group sounds familiar, one of the same groups that organized the rallies, that led to the january 6th insurrection. joining me now is former u.s. attorney joyce vance and a democratic pollster and strategist at the great state of florida. joyce, start with you on this. so there's a lot. i mean, i feel like every day there's a new line of inquiry focused on gaetz, whether it's paying for sex, sex with a minor. there's a federal investigation that's scrutinizing a bahamas trip, fbi, and widening its investigation including questions whether a trip to the bahamas taken with republican allies in florida and women "who were asked to provide sex for them." according to cbs news, gaetz an
on was on a trip with a marijuana and hand surgeon who allegedly paid for accommodations and female escorts. hasn't been charged anything as of yet. how much trouble do you think he might be in? >> there's an awful lot here, joy, and the allegations aren't just of one kind. potentially of multiple different sorts of situations. it's hard to get a read, because no charges have been filed of how seriously doj is taking this and where their emphasis the greatest. but the real risk for gaetz is that once the fbi starts looking, they're not constrained. this is no longer trump world where the president can say, my personal finances are a red line. right? they can look at whatever they think is important. the core of this, though, has to be any child sex crimes, doj takes that seriously. there's an entire division inside of the criminal division at main justice that focusing on child exploitation.
if those allegations pan out, if they can be proven with evidence, then gaetz is in a lot of trouble there. those charges carry some pretty heavy mandatory minimum sentencing applications. >> and seeing for viewers, there is matt gaetz giving a speech at the doral, trump's doral trump. and from what my producer explain, doing a usual thing. already issued a fund-raising email, fund-raising off this calling it a hoax, echoing trump language. a hoax, partisan witch-hunt. a corrupt establishment. help trump and i fight back against the fake media using the usual lingo and tonight repeating that saying he'll keep fighting on. in florida, is there a sense of, that people are distancing from him? kind of what's the vibe about gaetz in the state right now politically? >> hang on a second, joy, because i'm going to throw up looking at matt gaetz standing in fronted of a women for america first image on our
screen. the shameless gull of these projecting hypocritical republicans. look, joyce's comments, matt gaetz is in a lot of trouble. having spoken to sources today that spoke to him directly he knows it. lawyered up today, big time criminal defense attorneys and the big difference between this having happened today and six months ago is that donald trump is no longer there with a pardon that matt gaetz was trying to if a finagle the way out with the last administration. take a step back. not matt gaetz. he's the florida scandal de jour. every day something around matt gaetz, but every day there's something around florida. the way to really try and understand this is, as follows -- thank god the american people eliminated the cancer in the white house. the problem is, that has now been replaced in florida and
it's metastasizing here. the republican project in the country is today being beta tested in the state of florida, or as i call it, magastam. think about what's happening here. not just matt gaetz. also centered around ron desantis, engage for pay with vaccines, questions about the dubiousness of the state. the biggest medicare fraud and now wants to run for president. rick. and spineless marco rubio wouldn't know a moment of character if it bit him in the cuban boots he likes to wear every now and again. what we're seeing, joy, again, is what happens if these republicans run and basically autocratic state with no legal impunity, no accountability and that's the big test for matt gaetz and for the state of florida and for the united states. because if this succeeds, magastam will become the united
states of magastam. we need to be aware of that. >> important point. trump endorse marco. doesn't call him little marco anymore. endorsed with all that russia, russia stuff and top lawyer for florida's commissionprosecution investigating child pornography feels like florida is a cesspool right now. by the way, this mr. pitsolo, i should mention, matt gaetz tried to get limb to become the surgeon general of florida. he would have been another one in office. let me play for you a little bit of what matt gaetz was saying tonight in his little -- public appearance. >> the smears against me range from distortions of my personal life to wild and i mean wild conspiracy theories.
i won't be intimidated by a lying media, and i won't be extorted by a former doj official, officials and the crooks he is working with. the truth will prevail. >> joyce, as mentioned, he lawyered up with pricey lawyers. would you advice somebody who is under, you know, being scrutinized by the feds and under investigation to do a lot of talking? might it be wiser for him to, i don't know, shut up? >> it's surprising that his lawyers let him continue on tonight to give this speech. i'm sure that they counseled him about what he could and couldn't say. here's the real risk, joy. if matt gaetz gets indicted and ends up going to trial, he will undoubtedly hear some of these public appearances, whether it's the tucker carlson interview or this speech he gives tonight. prosecutors are going to play those back for the jury, and he will end up condemning himself
out of his own mouth, because many of the denials that he's now issues will likely be stuff that prosecutors have plenty of evidence to prove, if he's indicted and if they go to trial. this is dangerous. gaetz' lawyers need to tell him to stay at home like everyone else during the pandemic and stay out of trouble. >> indeed. if you're accused of basically abusing a child, sexually, you might just want to actually go quiet and take that seriously. joyce vance, fernando mandi, thanks. and still ahead, conservative democrats hunting the mythical beast known at congressional bipartisanship. it's sure out there somewhere. even if the last known sighting was decades ago. until they track it down, they'll happily serve at roadblocks to the entire biden agenda. former obama speechwriter joining me on that, next. hey lily, i need a new wireless plan for my business,
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dad... i just got a zerowater. but we've always used brita. it's two stage-filter... doesn't compare to zerowater's 5-stage. this meter shows how much stuff, or dissolved solids, gets left behind. our tap water is 220. brita? 110... seriously? but zerowater- let me guess. zero? yup, that's how i know it is the purest-tasting water. i need to find the receipt for that. oh yeah, you do. when it comes to legislation president biden said this week inaction is not an option. if prime minister joe manchin has his way it's definitely on the menu. prince of appalachia unequivocal about his opposition to changing the filibuster and made it clear he was done with budget reconciliation as a workaround for democratic legislation.
senator manchin wrote that the filibuster is a critical tool and no circumstance i will vote it eliminate or weaken the filibuster. former member of alec, shadowing organization, told cnn the january 6th insurrection solidified his opposition. >> something told me, wait a minute. pause. hit the pause button. something's wrong. you can't have this many people where they want to go to war with each other. >> seeing a hoard of trump fanatics lay siege to your capitol made the people want to work more to those in the senate? huh. remind you manchin tried this act before the in 2013. he and republican pat toomey tried to pass a watered-down gun bill. fell six votes short of 60. trying again. this time with a republican party controlled by, as former speaker of the house john boehner put it, a bunch of whack jobs. manchin's not alone in his quest. arizona senator and one-time
sinema adamantly opposing the filibuster telling the "wall street journal" a place that's broken not working. i don't think the solution is get rid of the rule. the current batch of senate republicans have shown in interest in compromise. just take, for example, the for the people act. a bill expanding voting rights, reduce influence of money in politics and limit gerrymandering. a taste of what republicans think of the bill. >> this is the biggest power grab since i've been in congress. it will take away every state's ability to run free and fair elections. >> it is a profoundly dangerous bill. >> everything about this bill is rotten to the core. this is a bill as if written in hell by the devil limbs. himself. >> we reached out and asked them to provide us with a list of the ten republican whose will vote for an infrastructure bill or a voting rights bill, anything.
and got no response. also invited both senators to defend their positions on this show. they declined. so senators manchin and sinema, no progress caucus, you, two, you are tonight's absolute worst, and with me, jon favreau, a podcast co-host and speechwriter to president obama. and sinema, i sport this. you and manchin show me your ten senators. i defy them because i don't think there are two. >> i think -- president biden and chuck schumer need to do that, too. invite them to come up with your version of this legislation that would attract ten republican senators and then show me who those senators are, because if you can't do that, then the people that are the source of gridlock in washington aren't necessarily those republican senators. it's you two. because you both have the power
to pass legislation, which, by the way, has broad bipartisan support throughout the country according to a poll we change research. between 70% and 80% of people support the for the people act and overwhelmingly support some of this specific provisions. by the way, some of the provisions are about taking the partisanship out of politics. right? for example, on gerrymandering. right now partisan gerrymandering the party in charge of the state house can drog congressional districts and pick voters. the for the people act makes sure an independent non-partisan commission. if joe manchin and's kristen sinema like this, they should want the pass the for the people act. i'm a skeptic. i don't know i believe them when they say they're for these bills. sorry. joe manczt manchin, his state i. a lot of people locked in the coal industry, no upward mobility beyond that.
i find it hard to believe when he says he's for a bill that would change that and make they're life better. you can pass it if you're for it. there are enough democrademocra. they have to show me they believe in the bills. 65% of are all voters strongly or somewhat support the infrastructure plan helping west virginia, help arizona. 42% of republicans support it. gallup poll shows a low only 40% identified republican leaning. nine-point difference. now the republican party is extremely unpopular, but these senators are saying they only care about protecting republican senators. not republican voters. i don't know how you get through to people like that. >> i do think on the american jobs plan that joe manchin is just trying to, like, make us go through a routine. he wants to get caught trying. he complained about the
reconciliation process in that op-ed, did not draw the same line in the sand on reconciliation as he did on the filibuster, fortunately. did say he doesn't prefer reconciliation but watts to bring in republican senators to the white house, try to compromise and win republicans saying they don't want to compromise with the white house because they don't really support infrastructure or a jobs bill. then perhaps joe manchin and kyrsten sinema can say we tried bipartisan and now can go to reconciliation. that's my hope and read on the situation so far. right. yet again another broadly popular bill in the american jobs plan that is bipartisan in a nature because of sunk of republican voters like it. it should be right up joe manchin's alley and kyrsten sinema's alley. >> you would think. you were a speechwriter for president obama during the era john boehner was there. do you think he's lying to you
or wants to work with you and he sincerely believed hostage to a group of tea partiers. here it is on cbs "sunday morning". >> you called political terrorists? >> oh, yeah. jim jordan especially. my colleague from ohio. i just never saw a guy who spent more time tearing things apart and never building anything. never putting anything together. >> and then there's senator ted cruz, who boehner says is the ultimate false prophet. >> beat anybody up. not really my style, except that jerk. perfect symbol. up know, of getting elected, make a lot of noise, draw a lot of attention to yourself, raise a lot of money. which means you're going to go make more noise, raise more money, and -- it's really, it's unfortunate. >> wait. before i get to my question. one more clip. favorite of john boehner.
play number five, please. >> take it from me, you'll never know where you'll end up. that's freedom. i'll raise a glass to that any day. p.s., ted cruz, go [ bleep ] yourself. >> part of the book, ten years from now, or 20 years from now or whenever, when our current senate majority leader retires and writes a book, is he going to say the same things about joe manchin and kyrsten sinema? feels he's as hostage to them as boehner was hostage to the tea partiers, that's my new ring tone, by the way. that last clip of john boehner. >> the only clip you need! >> i remember that president obama used to tell a story, which is in trying to do immigration reform spent a lot of time talking to john boehner. he wanted immigration reform, pass the bill work on it. my caucus, don't like
immigrants, against immigration reform if i push them on it they will oust me as speaker and elect someone as speaker more right wing than me. i want to work with you but i'm stuck. that was the dynamic, evn though a lot said goes for drinks, plays golf with boehner. and mitch mcconnell saying no. we're not working with you because our caucus doesn't want us to and our base a radical left. >> not only only, even people in the media demanding president obama have dinner with today he flipped out about biden having a commission to expand the court. direct assault on the nation's independence judiciary and another example of -- ba, ba, ba -- loses his crap because he wants to stuff the judiciary whip who he wants in it. last bit of advice to chuck schumer. i used to say about boehner, boehner should say to those tea partiers keep playing with me.
going to that lady, nancy pelosi she's going to get me the 40 votes you won't give me. you will be irrelevant. are there a couple of republicans, murkowski, somebody, schumer could go to and eliminate importance of sinema and manchin? in your view? >> i think the challenge there is manchin and sinema have gotten really tight with collens and murkowski. the more moderate republicans if you call them that and join forces with sinema and manchin and more moderate democrats. supposedly trying to save the senate, which bodes well for that. i do think they're all very, coming together if i was chuck schumer challenge them. you want bipartisan, 60 votes. show me the 60 votes and piece of legislation gets 60 votes, i'm willing to compromise. if you can we'll have gridlock
and the american people, democrats and republicans will be very upset nothing got done in washington and who's fault is that going to be? >> theirs. the piece of legislation that would pass a voting bill guaranteeing republicans always win elections. the only thin they will sign on to ever. thank you for joining us. don lemon is here to talk about his best-selling new book and his reaction to tucker carlson's outrageous defense of, replacement theory. you won't want to miss that. raise the jar to the best gelato... you've ever tasted. talenti. raise the jar. ♪ ♪ are you ready to join the duers? those who du more with less asthma. thanks to dupixent. the add-on treatment for specific types of moderate-to-severe asthma.
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nephew written on the day floyd was killed. i heard a dieing man call out to his mama and i wept for the world that will soon belong to you. adds, watching this shocking footage and i every other black man i know saw the incensably sluggish murder of ourselves. agonized realtime i saw blue hol -- billie holiday's strange fruit hanging from the poplar tree. i had to close my door and cry. "this is the fire: what i say to my friends about racism." i'm nervous, you're one of my idols. i love you, don. let's talk about this. >> no, no. joy, i know whenever i interview someone i know i get really nervous and i don't know why. i want it to be perfect for them. know what i mean? >> exactly. i should call you and re-do the
intro on the phone. talk about this trial. you cover it, we cover it every day. i cover it. you write beautifully in this book, opening talking about the george floyd, the murder of george floyd. and you talk in this book about the subtitle, what i say to my friends about racism. what do you say to your friends about this trial? >> i say deeply emotional. traumatic, and i think we all are reliving it over and over and every time we see the videos you know putting together our shows how much of that video to show. how much is exploitive and how much is necessary to educate and inform the audience? but it is it is that video, video's the reason we're here as a nation and i think the video is the reason that we are at this inflection point in society now, because we were all sitting, last summer in our homes, in quarantine, with nothing to do but watch george floyd's death over and over and
over. >> yeah. >> so i think it's trauma that we keep reexperiencing and can you imagine beeping the family in that courtroom? >> no. not at all. this book is really,let you all know not only is don lemon brilliant on television you're a brilliant writer. beautifully brilliant journalist, you're a great writer. it's beautifully written. you talk it very frankly about white supremacy. you get in a lot of trouble for it, i get in a lot of trouble for it talking about white supremacy openly. i think it's the way to do it, to be blunt about it. you write about the white supremacy, not talking about cartoon villains marching with ropes and torches but the system that favors white consumers, white businesses, white stories, white iconography. how do you talk across the racial divide about race who gets folks who are not black, who are not people of color, to understand that? >> honestly i think i do a good job of it in the book. i think you're right, joy.
you just have to do it. we cannot be concerned about grievance. people have become agrieved to the possibility they may have a racial blind spot to put it mildly or unconscious bias or they may be bigoted or racist, which is the most extreme. the more important thing is the act of racism itself. i think once you get people to understand that, that they should take more stock in the actual act of something, then the possibility that someone may think that they are something. and that's hard to get across. but i think if you're honest with people and if you have relationships with them, if you experience their humanity, then you're able to have those conversations. i know people always say it's very difficult. and quite honestly, especially white people. they say it's very difficult to have these conversations. it's difficult. i don't want someone to think i'm a racist. initially they may be difficult, but after a while, especially if you have a friend who's white or
looks like me or you or looks different than you and you have -- they can rely on you to be honest, and you have trust and support, then the conversations become easier and easier and easier and then they flow like water and you don't have to worry about someone deeming you to be racist or something you would rather not be called. it becomes about the experience and making it better. we're not going to fix it never. we're not going to fix sexism, any of it. but we can make it better. >> absolutely. absolutely. i have to show you this. speaking of that, there are a lot of people who are getting what they think is news from shows that themselves consider themselves entertainment and not news. i want to play for you just a little bit of tucker carlson. he did something that i thought was clarifying. i'm kind of glad he did it. he openly embraced the thing called replacement theory which is a lot of the fears that white americans that the browning of america, the fact that more anchors look like you and me, the fact they're seeing more black and brown and lgbt and different people in public life means they're being replaced as the core american.
he just went out and said it. he just embraced this theory last night. here he is. >> i know that the left and all the little gate keepers on twitter become literally hysterical if you use the term "replacement," if you suggest that the democratic party is trying to replace the current electorate, the voters now casting ballots, with new people, more obedient voters from the third world. but they become hysterical because that's what's happening actually. that's true. i don't understand what you don't understand. everyone wants to make a racial issue out of it. ooh, the white replacement theory. no, no, no. this is a voting rights question. i have less political power because they're importing a brand-new electorate. why should i sit back and take that? >> so he said that on holocaust remembrance day. you know, the republican party, people who watch this show, 81% of republican voters are white. 59% of democratic voters are white. the antidefamation league, the leader of it called that white
supremacist and called for him to resign, to be -- they say tucker must go for saying that. when we live in a country where that kind of rhetoric is extremely popular with a lot of people and people ems brace it, to go back to your book, how do you talk to folks about racism when they're taking in that kind of content? >> that's -- he is, in fact, promoting that. he is doing -- it's no different than what the lawmaker -- i'm sure you reported it -- from mississippi said about woke college voters, that they should be registering woke college voters. it's what professor robert pate says about the people who were the insurrections on january 6th, that they weren't proud boys or mostly neonazis, that they were just regular americans who were concerned about this replacement thing. so, i think that you, again, you can't coddle people. there are people -- there are people who can change and who want to go along and who don't want to move the country back to a place and a time where we did
not have a quality and equity for marginalized people, for people of color and for women. and that is what tucker is promoting there. so, i think you've got to be honest with people. if you start, joy, as i do from the history of this country teaching the right history of this country, then i think we will be operating on a place of truth and you won't get insurrectionists and you won't get people thinking that this whole replacement thing is something that needs to be promoted. you've got to start with honesty. >> got to start with history being honest. "this is the fire: what i say to my friends about racism." don lemon is not going anywhere. it's a hostage situation. up next i'm going to ask him the favorite friday question, who won the week. stay with us a few more minutes. won the week stay with us a few more minutes. . engineers and electricians. calling all brick masons and boiler makers. steel workers and steam fitters your country is calling you to rebuild america. to create a cleaner,
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well, folks you made it to friday. you know what that means. it's time to play who won the week. yes! back with me, don lemon to play the game. don lemon, who won the week? >> for me, it is martin tobin from the chauvin trial who talked about how george floyd had the life really squeeze it of him. and i think he did it with -- even though he's a medical doctor, he brought us -- they
did it in humane terms and we got to see the humanity of george floyd through et. >> i was going to bring out the versus because they came out. but i'm going to say it's don lemon. you won the week this week, my friend. you talked about you and tim starting a family. so, not only do you win by starting a family. there you are. that's the engagement party. i'll be your babysitter. who doesn't love that? thank you, don lemon. chris starts now. tonight on "all in." >> do you stand by today that the death of mr. floyd was, as you would call it, homicide? >> yes, i would still classify it as a homicide today. >> the man who declared george floyd's death a homicide finally takes the stand. tonight, as the prosecution winds down, why the medical examiner's testimony could turn this ca.