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tv   Katy Tur Reports  MSNBC  April 6, 2021 11:00am-12:00pm PDT

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his friend, morris hall, is trying to avoid being forced to testify by saying he will invoke his fifth amendment right against self incrimination. the defense wants to question him and the judge is weighing his decision based on what the defense wants to ask. the judge's decision could be critical to derek chauvin's defense that drugs contributed to george floyd's death, that he died from suffocation, he did not die from suffocation under chauvin's knee, but instead he died from an overdose. we will dig into that. first on the stand today, the crisis intervention training coordinator for the minneapolis police. he echoed the chief's testimony from yesterday about de-escalation tactics, though sergeant yang was restricted to policy and not his opinion about derek chauvin's actions. the defense questioned sergeant yang about dealing with the
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crowd, seeming again to imply the crowd shaping chauvin and pleading with him and yelling at him affected chauvin's decision making. then the prosecution hit back. >> ultimately when a police officer is dealing with any situation, they could be dealing with any number of people who are in crisis, right? >> yes, sir. >> all right. the subject, the arrestee maybe in crisis, right? >> yes, sir. >> people who are watching may be in crisis? >> yes, sir. >> another officer could be in crisis? >> yes, sir. >> all right. and an officer has to take all of that in and do this assessment and make a determination as to what his or inner next steps would be, right? >> yes, sir. >> if we are looking at assessing somebody's medical condition for the purpose of rendering emergency aid, would that be a big thing or a small
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thing? >> that would be a big thing. >> if then that is contrasted with, say, a 17-year-old filming you with a camera, would that be a big thing, the filming or a small thing? >> the filming would be a small thing. >> next on the stand was the minneapolis police department's use of force coordinator who taught derek chauvin to use neck restraints, and he said this. >> it's authorized in circumstances where there's active resistance, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> okay. so then if there was something like passive resistance, the conscious or nonconscious neck restraint would not be authorized? >> not be authorized? >> not be authorized, that's
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correct. >> and the unconscious neck restraint would be authorized for some forms of resistance, is that correct? >> correct. >> is this the trained mpd neck restraint? >> no, sir. >> never has been? >> no, no, sir. >> is this an mpd authorized restraint technique? >> knee on the neck is something that happens in use of force that is authorized? >> how long can you do that? >> i don't know if there's a timeframe, but it would depend on the circumstances of the time. >> which would include what? >> the type of resistance of the subject you are putting your knee on. >> if there was, for example, the subject was under control and handcuffed, would this be authorized? >> i would say no. >> the defense then got its turn to cross examine lieutenant and
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tried to turn the tables about training and chauvin's actions. >> you have had people plead with you not to arrest them? >> yes, sir. >> you have had people say they were having a medical emergency? >> yes, sir. >> you have had people say i can't breathe? >> yes, sir. >> and do you -- were there circumstances during the course of your career as a patrol officer where you did not believe that person was having a medical emergency? >> yes, sir. >> do you see a photograph of an individual demonstrating how to handcuff a person? >> yes, sir. >> and that knee is across the neck of that individual, correct? >> the knee is on his far shoulder. >> across the base of the neck? >> the shin would be -- yes, the shin is across the back of the neck.
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>> so that's when we are talking about prone handcuffing, and this is a specific kind of photograph that demonstrates the placement of the knee in prone handcuffing? >> correct. >> and if circumstances dictated, the officer would be permitted to continue to hold his knee in that same position, agreed? >> i would say, yes, however we have cautioned officers that be mindful of the neck area and to look for the shoulder. >> you can see mr. floyd's head in that area? >> yes, sir. >> and mr. chauvin -- officer chauvin's knee between the shoulder blades of mr. floyd? >> yes, sir. >> does this appear to be a neck restraint? >> no, sir. >> does this appear to be a prone hold that an officer may apply with his knee? >> yes. >> the prosecution on redirect
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tried to walk back some of the points the defense just made for the jury. >> once the subject is under control and no longer resistant, it's inappropriate to hold them in a position where you are draping your knee across their back or neck, isn't it? >> i would say it's time to de-escalate force, sir. >> and get off of them? >> yes, sir. >> there's lot to break down here. joining me now is gabe gutierrez, and we have a retired police chief and msnbc analyst, and an former fbi senior official. we were showing the image of what a restraint looks like with the knee on the shoulder and across the individual, the
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arrestee's neck, and it seems like the defense scored points there? >> actually, katy, i think the cross-examination on the lieutenant of use of force was one of the more effective cross-examinations he did. what he's trying to do is elicit reasonable doubt, and he only needs one juror for doubt, and you need 12 jurors for guilty, and you only need one juror to agree that what chauvin did under the circumstances was reasonable. the cross-examination by nelson of the use of force lieutenant simply tried to show the jury while the policy in black and white and in writing may be reasonably clear, in real life
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there's exceptions or occasions when an officer sees something could be done under those circumstances while not under the policy, and he did it reasonably well. this is what defense attorneys do. this is why we pay them to do what they do, they try to introduce reasonable doubt, and whether you like it or don't like it, mr. nelson is trying to do his job by his client. >> chief, i want to talk about the crowd. the defense keeps going back to the crowd, and trying to make the point that the crowd was dangerous and the officers involved were both distracted by the crowd and also threatened by the crowd and that's why they remained in the position they were in and there was traffic on the other side of them. when you look at images of the crowd, and there was one when somebody was being held back, it
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appeared at least, and what were your officers taught when you were chief to deal with a crowd like this? >> officers deal with crowds like that often. homicide scenes, large gatherings where the family is into domestic violence and there's each side, and we are often at calls, almost every call, where there's a potential for bystanders to be aggressive. in this particular case people were more or less pleading for the officer to get off of the neck, back, shoulder, whatever the argument is there, but to get off of mr. floyd because he was being passive and was saying he couldn't breathe. i saw more of that than anything. obviously we always want our officers to be alert and be mindful of officer's safety, and this situation does not elevate to the high level of threat to
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officers. i think any officer would tell you that. you go into any situation, and of course they are going to be bystanders, onlookers and often people who have high emotions and you have to be aware of that. certainly that doesn't call for the -- what the defense is trying to say that it was an aggressive crowd. i can tell you i have been in crowds where there were truly aggressive crowds throwing rocks, bottles and doing other things, and that was not the case here. i find that to be more of a distraction than an actual concern. >> what about the argument, chief best, that the defense is making that there's a gray area between what you are traineded and what real life is like, and they teach officers to make individual decisions to use their best judgment. how is somebody who worked in law enforcement for so long and
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over saw a force of her own, how do you explain that to the general public who is not in those situations? >> yeah, it's true, we want officers to use good judgment and that's why we have so much training and retraining and refresher training to make sure that officers are using the best training possible to make the best decision possible for the circumstances that they are in. that said, even as they are talking about the use of force and it's unreasonable in most people's view for somebody to remain in that position for the length of time that former officer chauvin did. that's my own experience. i, too, myself, have had to arrest people and take people into custody with several officers assisting and hold them down until we could get the situation under control. this is not an unusual circumstance that officers come across, and immediately when the resistance is minimized or done,
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then you move them to the recovery position and make sure they're okay, and you are responsible for that and for their safety, and particularly when they are handcuffed more so than any other time. i would say you do want officers to use their discretion and use it wisely and we don't want them second guessing every little decision, but a circumstances like this, one, two, three, four, five, six, eight, nine minutes go by, we would expect a different reaction than what we saw. >> gabe, let's talk about what happened this morning and the other gentleman who was in george floyd's car, morris hall. the defense wants him to testify. he does not want to testify. what more can you tell us about that? >> katy, i will get to that in just a moment, but what i wanted to begin with is new reporting that we got from inside the courtroom from one of the pool reporters that we just got a note from a few minutes ago.
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we were talking about chuck and the chief about the testimony today for the past hour and a half about use of force, and the question is if that is landing quite so much with the jury, and one of the jurors appeared to be sleeping, and 45 minutes ago, only one of them was taking notes and several were looking around the room seemingly distracted. katy, this is something that we expected today with drier testimony than what we saw last week with all the emotional bystander witness testimony, and yesterday a high profile testimony from the chief, and the jurors are more distracted today. earlier today there was a motions hearing before the jury was brought into the courtroom and that has to do with maurice hall, and he was the friend of
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george floyd in the passenger seat of his suv, and through his attorney today he was arguing he should not be compelled to testify and the subpoena for his testimony should be quashed because he said he will invoke the fifth amendment and will not testify because his attorney says he will likely be asked whether or not he provided drugs to george floyd or the counterfeit bill to george floyd, and he does not want to be implicated in any potential prosecution, say, third degree murder. he wants the defense attorney to draft a list of questions, very limited, for example, what was floyd's demeanor when he was inside the suv. they are now going to discuss that on thursday. katy? >> gabe gutierrez, thank you. chuck, you are sticking with us for the hour, so once we go on another break, i want to ask you about that juror sleeping and what that could mean for this
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trial. the trial is expected to reconvene in a few minutes around 2:30 p.m. eastern. when it's back in session we will go right back into that courtroom, and in the meantime president biden just arrived for a tour of a vaccination site in alexandria, virginia, ahead of his remarks on the state of the vaccine rollout next hour. the big headline will be the announcement all american adults will be eligible for a vaccine on april 19th. that is two weeks from today. earlier then expected. the president will likely credit a better than expected rollout, more than 4 million americans received shots on saturday alone, and more than 167 million doses have been given out so far. that means the white house is on track to beat its cold of 200 million vaccinations by april. and while some parts of the country is seeing a spike in new cases, dr. fauci says he's
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hopeful with the speed at which vaccines are being rolled out will prevent a surge if we continue to follow safety precautions. >> as long as we keep vaccinating people efficiently and effectively, i don't think that will happen. that doesn't mean we will see increases in cases. whether it explodes into a real surge or not remains to be seen, and i think the vaccine will prevent that from happening. >> joining me now, correspondent priscilla thompson in michigan, and the manager of opportunity labs, dr. ramirez, he served as pandemic and emerging threats coordinator at hhs during the obama administration, and a warning to both of you if the president comes out i will have to interrupt you. let's get right into this. priscilla, tell us what you can about what we're going to see.
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>> reporter: katy, michigan has been the leading the country for the past several weeks in terms of covid-19 cases, and, you know, in the past -- in recent days they have seen some of their highest numbers since december in terms of new cases per day, and you mentioned president biden will be speaking about expanding vaccine access and that's something michigan did just this week, allowing anybody over the age of 16 to receive that vaccine. that is really important from what we are hearing from health care workers here at a hospital in lansing, the farrow hospital here in lansing, because patients in the emergency beds are 18 to 49, and people who prior to this week did not have access to the vaccine, and i asked doctors what is driving the spread in that community. take a listen to what one doctor shared with me. >> because younger people tend
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to move around more, and maybe are a little less careful on average with their isolation or distancing and use of protective equipment that they may therefore be more contagious before they become ill enough to be in the hospital or isolated at home, and that, i think, is part of what's making a spike if you will worse along with the variants we're starting to see. >> reporter: the other big question here, of course, is will there be enough supply to meet this new demand. we know the white house is sending additional 60,000 shots to michigan this week and it will be interesting to hear if anything the president has to say about that, katy. >> thank you. dr. ramirez, what is your sense right now, and we have the guidelines from the cdc on vaccinated americans being able
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to travel, and also the guidelines about how it's not very common to get this virus from touching a surface, and then you also have the spikes like priscilla was reporting on in michigan. where are we at the moment? >> sure, we're seeing two competing trends, katy, and the first is case counts are increasing in about half of the state and more importantly they seem like they are going up in younger folks as was just discussed, those people age 20 to 50. the other trend we are seeing, though, is hospitalizations and cases are going down in those persons already vaccinated, those older americans. and that's what we expected to see, right, we vaccinated older americans first and cases should be going down in that group and that tells us vaccines are working. and the third piece that has folks concerned, is the rate of increase or acceleration of new cases in that young group seems to be picking up speed, and
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that's why we are hearing the mixed messages, and the take home message is to get as many young people vaccinated as well to blunt the surge. >> you can see joe biden, the president has entered the vaccination site and we will go there when he speaks. this is a scary sounding name, a double mutant variant. is it as scary as the name sounds? >> no, i don't think so katy. right? this is part of the scientific process where we continue to discover and sequence these things, and there will be many new variants in the future. what we know about this double mutant, right, is it has two variants that we have seen in different parts of the world that we have combined in a single strain, and the vaccines that do work against the individual strains, and so it
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should be working against the double mutant, and i caution folks to get too worked up when we say there's another double variant we're discovering. >> got it. dr. ramirez, thank you so much, and priscilla thompson in lansing, michigan, where they are seeing the spike, thank you. the murder trial of derek chauvin is expected to continue in ten minutes, and when it does we will go back in the courtroom. and then a navy medic was killed after opening fire on two people. we'll go live to florida where crews are racing to prevent a toxic reservoir from collapsing. a lot ahead this hour. stay with us. posito] [music: “you're the best” by joe esposito]
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we're learning new details about two shootings involving u.s. navy sailors in maryland. the gunman was identified as a navy hospital corpsmen. the gunman drove ten minutes to the u.s. army's fort dietrich military base where he was fatally shot. the two men shot are in critical condition. in florida crews are still racing to pump toxic waste water outside of a reservoir outside of tampa. crews have been working around the clock to remove water and
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decrease the pressure and they are now optimistic they can prevent a total collapse. environmentalists say the crisis in itself, in its entirety is preventible. joining me is news correspondent, ellison barber. >> reporter: we heard from one of the county directors of public safety that an infrared drone discovered signs of a second breach within the reservoir that has been leaking and causing so many problems. we found out late yesterday evening that once engineers were able to get on the ground and look at it they determined there's not a second breach, so that's good news. and officials seem optimistic about preventing a collapse and catastrophic flooding in neighborhoods around the plant. you can see and hear the cars driving by me now, and this is a
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change this afternoon where they have opened up part of the highway that was inside the evacuation zone and officials have now lowered the levels of the reservoir by a good foot, but the waste water they are draining is being pumped into tampa bay, and the waste water is not radioactive but is contaminated and has nutrients that are known to produce harmful algae. >> there's nutrients of nitrogen and some metals that are less of an immediate risk. all of the water is being discharged into tampa bay and
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it's not an ideal situation, but it's less catastrophic than the loss of human life. >> reporter: they have 11 different sites they are testing the water as it goes into the bay. they say it meets water quality standards so far, and i asked to be closer and see how that happens and we have not been able to get access right now, and it seems like a collapse here may not be as imminent as a few days ago. >> let's hope you get that access, ellison. you have to appreciate the water expert having the background noise being water. the officer that died in the line of duty we lie in honor in rotunda in the building he
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worked to protect for 18 years. officer evans, a father of two, was killed this past friday after a man rammed a car into a check point at the capitol. his family issued a statement this afternoon through capitol police, saying, quote, the best father, son, brother and friend anybody could hope for. his death has left a gaping void in our lives that will never be filled. two small kids. in moments the murder trial of derek chauvin will get back under way, and we will bring it to you live. end? the open road. i have friends. [ chuckles ] well, he may have friends, but he rides alone. that's jeremy, right there! we're literally riding together. he gets touchy when you talk about his lack of friends. can you help me out here? no matter why you ride, progressive has you covered with protection starting at $79 a year. well, we're new friends. to be fair.
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christopher martin, the teenage cashier that flagged george floyd's counterfeit bill. he spoke with megan fitzgerald about how he's processing the events of may 25th. his own testimony, his own role in this, and his feelings of guilt. >> so the family speaking to you, saying you don't have to feel guilty. how do you feel about that? >> i feel really good. i appreciate that. i think it's something that time will have to heal the more and more that i step back and analyze the situation, the more i feel less guilty. >> but you still harbor -- >> a lot of it, yes. >> joining me now is civil rights attorney levy armstrong. she's also president of the
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indianapolis ncacp. >> i think of yesterday we were very happy with the unequivocal statements where they said derek chauvin violated the policies, and he raised concerns about the knee that derek chauvin placed on floyd's neck as long as he did knowing he was laying prone and in handcuffs at the time. >> they have called a new witness to the stand. let us dip in and see who this is and where it's going. >> good afternoon. >> good afternoon. how are you employed? >> by the indianapolis police department.
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>> how long you have been employed by the police department? >> six years. >> how are you employed? >> i am a police officer. >> do you have a specific assignment? >> yes, the coordinator for the police department. >> before we talk about that role i would like you to share a little bit about yourself with the jury. how long you have been a police officer in law enforcement? >> i have been in law enforcement for about six years, and that whole time with the minneapolis police department. >> did you have a career prior to going into law enforcement? >> yes, i did. i worked in human resources. >> what is your educational background? >> a associates degree in human resources and bachelor's degree in business, and i am an emt and an emr instructor. >> you worked in human resources, that was your original plan? >> correct. >> how long you have wanted to be a police officer? >> it was something i always wanted to do but i talked myself
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out of it one way or another, but eventually found my way back. >> can you please tell the jury how you entered law enforcement. did you go through the academy? >> yeah, i came in as a cadet, which means the department sponsors the education components that make you eligible for the post exam in the state of minnesota. >> how long of a program was that? >> i would -- i think it was nine months total. >> after you completed, i guess, the in class or the classroom portion of the academy, did you go through field training? >> i did. >> how long was that process? >> field training at that time was about five and a half, six months. >> as an officer with the minneapolis police department, are you familiar with some of the officers who also work in the department? >> i am. >> are you familiar with the name derek chauvin? >> i am.
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>> how are you familiar with that name? >> he was actually one of my fill-in fto's for one day, and he attended my training that i conducted with the department. >> would you recognize him if you saw him? >> yes. >> do you see him in the courtroom today? >> yes, sir. >> would you please point to him and describe what he's wearing? >> the gentleman here in the light gray suit. >> will the record reflect the witness has identified the defendant? >> no objection. >> it will. >> could you please describe for the jury what your role intails? >> certainly. there's a couple different components to it. primarily it's the first aid education that all the officers receive. i duty training for the academy, both recruits and cadets as well as the in-service, which is the
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continuing ed for all the current officers. i am also administer of the narcan program that we have. >> what is the narcan program? >> the narcan program is the training and administration of pharmaceuticals to use to reduce overdoses. >> is that something, narcan, officers have available to them? >> yes, sir. >> and you provide the specific training regarding the use of narcan? >> i do. >> also you provide medical training, both at the academy and in-service, correct? >> correct. >> are you familiar from the department and post requirements how often officers are supposed to train in the medical procedures? >> yeah, when you are able to provide for the certification, you have to have your emergency
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medical responder certification, and we do continuing education every year on medical-related topics. >> you said the post board doesn't require anything more specific. can you explain that? >> with their educational requirements as far as the continuing as long as you have met the minimum number of hours, there are certain topics they require you to complete, and other ones -- we go above and beyond what the post board records, so that's when we add in extra medical training. >> you do that every year? >> we do. >> are police officers required to have a specific cpr card? >> not a card, no. you are not required to have that beyond your initial post certification. >> when you are initially post certified you need one? >> correct, that's part of the emr certification that is
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required to be able to take the post exam. >> some officers will continue to obtain the cpr card, is that right? >> correct. >> what is required in order to obtain that card? >> it's about a four-hour class. there's a written test and a skills examination test out. >> what does it cover? >> it includes adult cpr and aed, and infant cpr and aed as well as choking. >> at this time i would like to display to the witness and not to the jury exhibit 277 for identification. if you could take a look at what has been marked for identification as exhibit 277, is that a american heart association aed card? >> yes. >> is that the type of card you get if you complete the four-hour class you just mentioned? >> yes. >> while it's not required some officers continue them and those
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cards are maintained in the department of the minneapolis police department? >> yes, we would be the record holder if they took that course. >> if we could look at exhibit 278. that also appears to be a cpr card, just in a different year? >> correct. >> and i will offer exhibits 277 and 278. >> no objection. >> 277 and 278 are received. >> if we could public exhibit 277 and highlight that portion. >> does this appear to be a cpr aed card for derek chauvin in march of 2014? >> correct. >> and if we could display exhibit 278.
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again, a cpr card from january 2014 to january 2016, is that correct? >> that's correct. >> when you provide the training, the medical training to law enforcement officers, does that training get reported into the workforce system to be able to report to the post board? >> it does. >> how -- when did you start personally delivering this training? >> i have been a part time instructor since 2017 and i assumed the full-time position january of 2020. >> how many times do you think that you have provided this training, this in-service training to law enforcement officers? >> cpr specifically? >> yes.
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>> i would say upwards of 20 to 30 sessions. >> do you use a slide deck or power point to do your medical presentation every year? >> we do. >> if i could show you exhibit 111, just to the witness and not to the jury. exhibit 111, do you recognize that it appears to be the first part of a slide deck? >> yes. >> if we could turn the second page of 111. does that appear to have mpd cpr, is that right? >> correct. >> you have delivered -- personally delivered the slide deck before? >> i have. >> approximately how many times? >> this was in-service of 2019, and my best estimation, this problem wasly over the course of 12 or 15 sessions and i was
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responsible for about one-third of them. >> did the defendant attend any of your sessions? >> i am not sure. >> but you were responsible for the block of training -- >> correct, i was the instructor and ran one of the skilled stations. so everybody in the department theoretically would have come through the skilled station. >> in general terms, you provide the general overview of the specific training you provide to law enforcement officers on an annual basis? >> for in-service specifically? >> for in-service, yes. >> depending on how many training sessions will be available to us at a year, but at a minimum every year we are touching on cpr and aed, and
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ultimate years we are going through a refresher class on aur . >> are you aware if the police department has a specific policy regarding rendering emergency aid? >> we do. >> could you please provide the jury with a high-end overview of what that requires? >> a summary of our first aid policy will be requesting ems resources to anybody that needs it or requests it, and also rendering first aid that is consistent with your training that you have received. >> does the policy allow you to do one or the other? can you just call for the ambulance and not do the emergency medical procedures? >> depends on the situation specifically. if there was really no need for immediate first aid, maybe like
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a small cut or abrasion, it would be then appropriate to just wait for ems to arrive but if it's a critical situation then you would have to do both. >> i would like you to now walk us through some of the specific training that you provide. we will use exhibit 111 to do so. if you could publish exhibit 111 starting at page six -- well, let's go back to page one. i want you to explain page one of this. >> so this is an image of a clip that is taken from the classic movie "dumb and dumber," and this is a video clip that we show at the beginning of training. it's more or less just a light-hearted way to get people a little more engaged in the class, you know, as -- >> not a substantive slide? >> no, absolutely not. >> i would like to, then, cover
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the substantive portions. if you go to page six and review the portion of the slide deck that says agenda. could you describe to the jury each of these different portions of training that you provide? >> certainly. so this block of training was primarily focused on cpr, but we did throw in a couple extra pieces of information because we have the time available to us, so we just kind of briefly retouched on other things we had already taught, which was tactical combat casualty care, and that's basically rendering aid for more traumatic injuries, if you will. we also brought in an update on the narcan program as far as usage and things we learned since we initially rolled it out, and then the remainder of the time was focused on the full cpr course. >> all right. if you could go to page 21 of exhibit 111.
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for the jury, would you please describe using the slide, just kind of walk us through what specific training you provide in the minneapolis police department as it pertains to cpr? >> okay. when we were called to a scene where there's some kind of medical situation going on, maybe it's illness or injury, whatever it happens to be, we have a little something we walk through to make sure we include all the basics, so when abpu, that's an acronym to determine the level of responsiveness, and then we go to the airway, breathing and circulation, the abcs. >> then the next page. could you walk the jury through this assessment tool? >> when you are determining
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somebody's level of responsiveness, you kind of walk through this as your model to see where they land. so if somebody is alert, that means that, you know, as soon as i walk into the room and they spontaneously look at me, i determine, okay, that person is alert and i don't need to go any further. verbal would be, maybe just kind of yelling towards somebody or trying to get their attention, something like that to see if they respond to any verbal stimuli. if you don't get a response there then you move on to the "p," which is pain. that's going to be, like, something like, for example, if you press against the base of the fingernail, you are looking for a response that somebody would normally pull away from, and we're not talking about anything that would cause injury, per se, just pain stimulus to see if they pull away or something like that, and if they don't respond you determine that person is
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unresponsive. >> i would like to just talk about -- have you talk about the "p," the painful stimuli briefly. it sounds like they would be applying a painful stimulus to see if they react, correct? >> that's correct. >> could they determine the responsiveness, just observing whether the person is continuing to react to some kind of painful stimulus? >> can you rephrase that? >> sure. if somebody -- if you came upon an individual that was injured, for example, and crying out or manifesting some sort of pain as a result of the injury and at some point they stopped being verbal and responding to that pain, could that be a sign of
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nonresponsiveness? >> correct. yes. >> once you determine an individual is unresponsive, then what do you do? >> then you walk through the next set of acronyms, which is going to be your21, please. and a, bs and cs. that's airway, breathing and circulation? >> that's correct. f. you could go to page 23. >> can you please describe to the jury what you train officers to do based on this slide within exhibit 111. >> certainly. after you determine their level of responsiveness, if they're unresponsive, you are going to first address their airway and that means just putting them in the most ideal physical position where their airway can be as most in line as possible. >> and then what's the next step? >> tilting up the head slightly.
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to open up their -- a head tilt chin lift or jaw thrust maneuver to open up their airway. and the next step beyond that is moving into checking for breathing. and if you don't see a chest rise, it's just a matter of putting the hand on the center of the chest and seeing if there's any air moving up and down. >> and then what's the next step? >> the last is circulation. so that's where we'll be checking a carotid pulse under the jaw. >> are there any places that officers are trained they can use to check for a pulse? >> absolutely. you can use your radial here at your wrist. multiple points on your body but this is by far and away the most important. >> and what are officers trained to do if they are unable to find a pulse? >> if you don't have a pulse on a person, you'll immediately start cpr. >> i want to go back to the concept of checking for breathing. you indicated that you can look for the chest rising and
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falling. is that right? >> uh-huh. yes. >> do you train officers that, as part of your training, do you train officers that if a person can talk, that means they can breathe? >> no, sir. >> why not? >> that would be incomplete to say because there is possible -- there is a possibility that someone could be in respiratory distress and still being able to verbalize it. just because they're speaking doesn't mean they're speaking adequately. >> and getting back to circulation, you indicated that if the officer cannot find a pulse, they are to start cpr is that correct? >> yes. >> describe what is done to start cpr. >> so you'll be starting that if you haven't already contacted ems to get them en route, you'd do that immediately. then it's a matter of just interlocking your fingers. you go center of the chest and then you push down about
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one-third of the depth on the person at the rate of about 100 beats per minute. >> and is this something that, again, getting back to the mpd policy that the officer is trained, that they're required to do while waiting for the ambulance? >> yes. >> and when is the officer supposed to stop cpr? >> when you have been relieved by somebody with a higher level of training than you or maybe if there were some obvious signs of death or if you are just -- if you've been doing it for a while if you were just absolutely physically exhausted from doing cpr. >> if you could display page 27 of the exhibit. and officers are specifically trained on this, is that right? >> correct. >> it can be when the subject becomes responsive or wakes up? >> right. >> or someone else takes over or as you stated, it's not safe or
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you physically can't do it anymore, correct? >> yes. >> is this consistent with the training that you provide every year to each and every law enforcement officer who is recorded as having taken this training during his service? >> yes. >> all right. i have nothing further. thank you, your honor.
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>> so -- so we're watching the trial, as you can see. and there is a bit of a delay here between whether the defense is going to cross-examine this witness. the medical coordinator for the minneapolis police force. it looks like -- quite frankly, i'm not sure if they will. let's go to chuck rosenburg who is standing by.
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the jury note, there appears to be a juror nodding off during testimony today. how significant is that? >> that happens in long trials, particularly after lunch, particularly if you have had a heavy lunch or a bad night's sleep. maybe they stayed up late last night watching the baylor/gonzaga game. people get a little drowsy. what it does tell you as a prosecutor is that maybe your case is what we call cumulative. you are making the same point over and over and it might be time to move on to the next topic because the jury gets it. >> so it looks like the defense attorney might be coming to the podium. here he is. let's listen in.
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>> sorry about that, ma'am. >> no worries. >> all right. i think i'm ready now. thank you for joining us today. just a few follow-up questions. you have been with minneapolis police department for about six years at this point? >> correct. >> and prior to that, you said you were an emt as well, right? >> correct. >> now as far as the minneapolis police department is concerned, there are officers are trained as essentially first responders, correct? >> correct, with the emr certification. >> emergency -- >> medical responder. >> it's a lower level of medical training, correct? >> than an emt, that is correct. >> so you may go to a cpr class, then you have your first responder and then an emt paramedic? >> that would be a natural progression, yeah.
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>> and so you have experience -- did you work as an emt as well as -- >> i did. >> and so you have experience both as a police officer, as well as an emt, correct? >> correct. >> now you testified that part of your role now as running the medical program is to present officers with information as to multiple medical issues that they may encounter. >> correct. >> it's not just limited to first aid or first responder, you know, cpr-type stuff, correct? >> no, we also teach wellness classes, whether it's sleep, nutrition. we have a wide variety of classes. >> okay. and you have classes on topics including excited delirium? >> correct. >> and topics including the administration of narcan? >> correct. >> and officers, or all minneapolis police officers are permitted to carry narcan assuming they have had the training? >> yes. >> and do all minneapolis police
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officers receive that training? >> yes. >> so some of these medical topics at these continuing education classes, they may come up an hour here, or half hour there during an inservice, correct? >> depends on the topic, yes. >> so the emr stuff is kind of a stand-alone class. there may be -- that's a longer class, right? >> correct. that's basically your initial medical training, as, you know, you are required to get certification. that's about a 40-hour class. >> and then you'll have refresher classes on that stuff as well, correct? >> it will -- continuing on the same topic but the minneapolis police department doesn't require officers to keep their emr certification. >> all right. and so the certification that we saw mr. chauvin had expiring in 2016, i believe? >> that was cpr. >> that was cpr. and are officers required to
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then have cpr every two years after that? >> yeah, we do cpr classes on a rotating basis. so every other year they go through cpr. >> now i would like to talk to you about a couple of the minneapolis policies if we could. so there's essentially two minneapolis police policies that deal with emergency medical response, correct? >> correct. >> one being after a use of force, correct? >> that is correct. >> and that being as soon as

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