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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  April 2, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

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that's tonight's "reid out." stay tuned for the latest on the attack on capitol hill that killed a capitol police officer. "all in" with chris hayes starts now. >> tonight on "all in" a police officer is killed in an attack outside the capitol. major league baseball steps up to the plate against georgia's voter restriction law, and new reporting that looks even worse for congressman matt gaetz. tonight as the florida lawmakers denies paying for sex, what we
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know about the text messages that pointed federal investigators at matt gaetz. then, why baseball's decision to move its all star game out of georgia is already having a big impact. and another police witness takes the stand to denounce derek chauvin's actions. >> what is your -- you know, your view of that use of force during that time period? >> totally unnecessary. >> "all in" starts right now. good evening from washington, d.c. i'm in for chris hayes. this was the scene today at the u.s. capitol after the worst attack there since the trump mob insurrection on january the 6th. one capitol police officer is dead and another injured after a suspect rammed a car into security barricade and then jumped out wielding a knife. that suspect was shot and killed. we'll have the latest for you on that attack in a moment. we've gotten somewhat inured
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to scenes of violence at our capitol. after january 6th, while this incident appears entirely unrelated, it is in many ways a reflection of the political moment we find ourselves in regardless of the culprit and the motive, and i want to talk about that political moment. the democratic party has shifted to the left to some extent, but the mainstream of the party including its left flank operate squarely in the realm of reason, facts, reality. meanwhile, the difference between the mainstream republican party and the conspiracy addled far right has essentially vanished. indeed, over the past few years we have reached the point where people who believe that democrats are satan worshipping cannibalistic pedophiles are embraced by a republican president, as well as elected officials in his party. fueling their delusional conviction on january the 6th that they had the right to assault our capitol and attack our democracy. there's this new book about the
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republican party that tries to explain what happened, how it is that the right descended into, quote, crazy town." the author points out well before the rise of trump even as far back as 2010 and the rise of tea party, you could be a total moron and get elected just by having an r next to your name. many such morons were. the author continues, compromise? that wasn't their thing. a lot of them wanted to blow up washington. he goes on to say that many republican members of congress were just thinking of how to fund-raise off of outrage or how they could get on hannity that night, adding they didn't really want legislative victories, they wanted wedge issues and conspiracies and crusades. the author goes on to say that the gop was infiltrated by wild-eyed crazies backed by a fox news obsessed by kooky conspiracy theories. who is this author? it's former republican house speaker john boehner in his new
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book, an extract from which is in "politico" today. boehner is positioning himself as the voice of reason, a wine drinking cigarette smoking old school republican who can't stand the new breed that's taken over. >> take it from me, you'll never know where you'll end up. that's freedom. i'll raise a glass to that any day. p.s., ted cruz go [ bleep ] yourself. >> john boehner wants us to pine for a simpler time where republican politicians were not conspiracy theorists or actively working to subvert democracy but rather simple, hardworking corporate stooges who would literally distribute big tobacco's campaign checks on the house floor. as boehner did in 1995. the problem with boehner's attempt to separate himself from this new class of republicans is that he literally helped usher them into power. boehner thought he could manage and use the tea party to his
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benefit as one former aide of his said, he thought of himself as someone who was of the tea party mentality before the tea party was a thing, and back in 2009, boehner effectively threw in with the tea party appearing with michelle bachman, the marjorie taylor greene of her time at a rally at the capitol in front of thousands of far right protesters who were an early manifestation of the republican party's conspiretorial and dark future. boehner thought he could ride that wave, just like paul ryan thought he could ride the trump wave in 2016. for them the tea party and the trump base were a means to an end, an injection of energy that could help them stay in power, and the reason we are where we are today is because these old school republicans, quote, unquote, didn't stand up to the crazies. they embraced them. however uneasily. and now the crazies are ascendant, and john boehner wants to be celebrated for calling them crazy, for now, finally calling it like it is.
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well, too little too late, and that brings us unfortunately to matt gaetz. the other day the current house republican leader kevin mccarthy called the allegations against gaetz serious and threatened to remove him from a committee if true, which isn't much to be sure, but at least it would be an expression of disapproval. but matt gaetz should have been dealt with long before these latest headlines. gaetz is exactly the type of elected republican that john boehner claims to so disdain, a man who has always cared more about getting on television and inflaming the base than getting things done, and it's not like there haven't been red flags. gaetz showed nude photos of women he said he'd slept with to lawmakers in the florida house. abc news reports some women referred to him as creepy gaetz, and he was part of a group of young male lawmakers who created a game to score their female sexual conquests. the daily beast reported that republicans have been waiting
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for a matt gaetz scandal to break and that more than half a dozen lawmakers have spoken to reporters about his love of alcohol and illegal drugs as well as his proclivity for younger women. we had mentioned that when we had the co-author of that piece last night because we wanted to give gaetz the benefit of the doubt. now there's new reporting from the "new york times" as well citing text messages, receipts and interviews that gaetz allegedly took the mood altering drug ecstasy with women that he allegedly paid for sex. it seems almost impossible that kevin mccarthy didn't have some inkling that matt gaetz was a disaster waiting to happen. yet, mccarthy did nothing, just like john boehner did nothing, and paul ryan did nothing. and so the republican party got trumpier and trumpier, crazier and crazier. that "new york times" report on gaetz is absolutely shocking. it alleges that gaetz, who's being investigated for potential sex trafficking involving a 17-year-old girl and another man, joel greenberg were
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involved with multiple women who were recruited online for sex and received cash payments. one of the sites they allegedly use is called "seeking arrangement" which helpfully explains the difference between a sugar baby and a sugar daddy, if you needed to know that. gaetz has denied sex trafficking and any relationship with a 17-year-old and calls the allegations against him, quote, totally false. he also says never paid for sex. his office issued a statement reading, matt gaetz has never paid for sex. matt gaetz refutes all the disgusting allegations completely. matt gaetz has never been on any such websites whatsoever. matt gaetz cherishes the relationships in his past and looks forward to marrying the love of his life. for the latest on the gaetz story, i want to bring in jose pal area ree, political investigations reporter at the daily beast who has amazing reporting on the text messages that pointed the feds towards matt gaetz. jose, thanks for coming on the show. what are these texts you got that connect the feds to joel greenberg to matt gaetz?
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>> well, these text messages are pretty astounding. there are two sets of text messages that we were able to get ahold of, and what they say essentially is that a politician that most of the country otherwise would never have heard of joel gaetz, tax collector in florida, that this local politician had a relationship with matt gaetz and by all accounts was bringing him into the office late at night on a weekend to look at i.d.s that now -- i.d.s that were being fabricated, and in another instance was actually calling in a favor trying to get matt gaetz an i.d. outside of proper channels. we got copies of these text messages that eventually got into the hands of federal law enforcement, but they raise a ton of questions both for matt gaetz and his friend joel greenberg. >> even if there were no child trafficking charges involved hanging out with a tax collector
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late at night checking out i.d.s is questionable to say the least. let's talk about matt gaetz's own questionable reputation. how well-known was this? when you start digging into this, there are so many stories suggesting he was out of control. how much did we already know about and people kept silent about? >> so many of my colleagues at the daily beast have known a lot about his past and have been reporting on it for some time. this is a guy who rose up with trumpist politics and president trump himself really just surrounded himself with this lawless behavior, and he was part of that. he supported it every step of the way. he was the lap dog for a long time for the president. now, what we know about matt gaetz now is that to understand what exactly could be the thing that's bringing him down now, we have to understand what it was that his friend, his colleague joel greenberg in florida is accused of doing. and that is -- i'll tell you, i've had a few days on this case. this is one of the most complicated headache inducing cases of alleged corruption i've ever seen. i mean, there's a 33 count
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indictment that ranges from everything from sex trafficking of underage girls to fabricating i.d.s to using a government office to actually create and mine bitcoins. what's fascinating about this is if you put together the allegations in that lawsuit, of all of the alleged behavior for greenberg and the shared interest that he had with matt gaetz, this is a friend of his where they've interacted online talking about a lot of this stuff, up to and including their interest in bitcoin. what so many of us now are trying to do is piece together how does this connect back to them. it's worth talking about these text messages. we have to ask ourselves what is a present u.s. congressman doing visiting a local tax office at night next to i.d.s. i mean, if he lost his i.d. as one of these text messages claims, if he lost his i.d. and was about to board a flight, why was he calling a favor in to a friend to get him a duplicate, particularly one that is one of those higher standard, security
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standard i.d.s called real i.d. this is just not the way that it's done. >> no, it's not, and of course gaetz is on record endorsing greenberg for congressional run, so they were clearly close. he says he won't resign, the florida congressman. his communications director just stepped down. jose, what are you hearing about his future within the house gop? >> i mean, as our reporting already clearly indicates, the gop is really just waiting for him to come crashing down, and right now matt gaetz's world is coming crashing down. i mean, we've talked to the people who have been talking to law enforcement now for quite some time, and this has been a long time coming. this investigation started with stuff involving bitcoin and some financial fraud, but it quickly escalated, and what we know is that federal law enforcement has had matt gaetz on their radar for at least a year. i mean, we heard that in january 2020, the u.s. secret service was surprised when his name came up in these text messages and has -- i mean, the text messages have now ended up in the hands
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of law enforcement in florida and in another federal ageagenc, so we're not just talking about a one-pronged effort, i mean, the world is coming for him. >> yeah, it's not looking good for matt gaetz, but then again he's never been someone who's a fan of reality. so let's see what he does next. thanks for your reporting and thanks for being with me tonight. >> it was a pleasure. thank you. now for some broader perspective on today's bizarre gop, i'm joined by elizabeth newman who served in the bush administration and the trump administration before resigning in disgust. she's now the director of the republican accountability project. elizabeth, thanks so much for coming on the show tonight. what is your response? let me start with this basic question. what's your response to this escalating matt gaetz situation, what we're hearing every day? >> well, he clearly needs to resign, but you know, at what point does the gop kind of pause and take a look in the mirror? i mean, they incited a violent attack against the capitol on january 6th. that didn't cause a pause.
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now they've got a member of congress who, quite frankly, was almost a poster child for the new gop that's fighting for the working person, the working man and woman, and now he's falling down in flames of fire, burning to the ground. you know, when do you start to realize, hey, maybe this approach doesn't work. maybe we actually need to return to truth. maybe we need to actually remember some of our core principles and values and work with people of integrity. maybe we should recruit candidates that have integrity. like, it's sweet justice to see him go down, but he's just one of many, many members of congress that lack integrity, and unless they have some sort of moment where they look -- are able to look at themselves in the mirror and realize how much they've messed up, repented and apologized to the country, i think the only choice we have is to get them out of office, and that's why the republican
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accountability project exists. to remind the voters of why they need to be ousted for their lack of integrity. >> so in terms of reminding people about the republican party, i would argue the reason gaetz was able to become a household name and a tv personality is because the paul ryans and the john boehners didn't do their job. the gop establishment didn't or couldn't prevent the crazies from taking over. am i wrong? >> i don't disagree. i actually have spent quite a bit of time over the last year going back into our history and understanding all of the subtle missteps, all of the times when the fringe were tolerated a little too much, but there's also -- there's an aspect here that is tied up into the monetization of the conservative infotainment echo chamber, and it's hard to say how an individual member of congress or even a collective group of them could take on the likes of fox news by the time you get to 2010 or 2015.
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it just had become such the moneymaker, spinning the lies and feeding the grievance and the outrage, anger cycle. it's hard to say how a member of congress could have stopped that, but certainly going back even two, three decades ago seems to be where some of those original missteps were made. >> yeah, and as critical as i am of john boehner as you heard me a moment ago in the introduction, there was a moment when i was reading the political piece today, the extract from his book where a small violin did play for him where he talked about how to discipline michelle bachman, the marjorie taylor greene of his time. she says to him, you won't give me the committee seat i want, i'm going to go on sean hannity and talk about it tonight. there is that sense where fox news, you really can't understand the modern gop without understanding the control and power that fox news has over the base and over these elected representatives. so my question to you, elizabeth, is is there a future for the gop which isn't trumpy, which isn't controlled by fox
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news, which isn't filled with qanon and various grifters, i don't see in the short-term at least. >> i tend to agree with you. i had hopes after january 6th that that would provide the wake-up call for many, but they reverted back, and what i'm hearing -- and you've seen it reported, but i'm hearing it privately as well, that most of them have done the calculus and realized it would take too much. they don't have enough money. they don't have enough time to rebuild a party separate from trump by 2022, so their bet is, well, we got to like tacitly cozy up to him. we can't condemn him. and that's just, in my view, that's shortsighted. it's the wrong answer, and maybe it wins you some seats in 2022 because of the way that the electoral map looks, but that certainly is not the long-term solution, and rebuilding the gop, looks like it's going to take them losing a number of elections, letting it burn down,
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and then i don't know if what gets rebuilt is -- the remnant that is still in the gop that is trying to hold to integrity, but they're so small. >> the problem, elizabeth, i used to think about that, too. maybe if they lose they will reassess. the problem is they now have a get out, if they lose they say we didn't lose. that didn't seem to work either. we'll have to see what happens next. elizabeth newman, thanks so much for your time skin sights -- and your insights. >> thanks for having me. it was the breaking news that brought washington, d.c., to a standstill. tonight we're learning more on the attack on police outside the capitol building and the enduring security gaps in the wake of january the 6th. that story after this break. don't go away. tory after this b. don't go away. t the brawn ♪ ♪ i've got the brains... ♪ with allstate, drivers who switched saved over $700 click or call to switch start your day with crest 3d white and from mochaccinos to merlot,
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we're continuing to learn more about today's attack on the capitol that resulted in the death of a capitol police officer, officer william billy evans was killed today after a man drove a car into a security barricade outside the capitol striking him and another officer. evans was an 18-year veteran of the force and a member of the capitol division's first responders unit. the capitol police say the other officer that was hit is stable and not in a life-threatening condition. the acting capitol police chief said the driver of the car was shot and killed after jumping out of the car with a knife, failing to respond to verbal commands, and lunging at the officers. four senior law enforcement officials briefed on the investigation identified the suspect as a 25-year-old man from indiana, noah green.
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we'll continue to update you on this story as we learn more. this attack comes a week after fencing was removed from the outer perimeter of the capitol complex following the deadly assault on the capitol on january 6th. that fencing had been a hot button issue for republicans who had been pushing for its removal. two weeks ago congressman marjorie taylor greene posed in front of the fence with a sign reading welcome to fort pelosi. she was far from the only republican trying to score points out of this situation. >> welcome to fort pelosi where democrats decry walls from within their own heavily guarded razor wire wall. >> there have been no serious threats against the capitol, with all this razor wire around the complex, it reminds me of my last visit to kabul. >> i think the idea of keeping them there indefinitely and keeping a barbed wire fence around the capitol indefinitely is crazy. >> the u.s. capitol has giant fences with razor wires and 5,000 national guards standing
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out front because the democrats are convinced that political theater helps them. let's be clear, this is not about security at this point. this is about political theater. >> and it's not just about removing fences. it appears that many republican members just do not care about the safety of their colleagues. take, for example, texas congressman louie gohmert who has been fined $5,000 for failing to go through a metal detector before entering the house chamber or andy harris who's being investigated by capitol police for allegedly trying to take a gun onto the house floor, and perhaps, not by chance, gohmert, harris, green, as well as florida's matt gaetz were part of a group of 12 republicans who voted against awarding congressional gold medals for the capitol police who protected them on january 6th, police like officer william evans who gave his life today protecting the capitol. political white house correspondent natasha bertrand has been following the story all afternoon. she joins me now. thanks so much for coming on the
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show. what is the latest you're hearing on this attack? >> yeah, well, there are a lot of developments coming in. we now know that the suspect has been identified as a 25-year-old man who was originally from indiana, but he was living in virginia. it's not clear at this point what his motivation for this attack was, although there are postings on his social media account that suggest certain ideological beliefs, certain indications that he was struggling in the final months of the pandemic, that he felt like people were following him. there are a lot of indications here that perhaps he was mentally unwell. and that's important because this also goes to the idea that this was very much a lone wolf attack. when we talk about the preparations that capitol police and that the national guard and that the metropolitan police have been making for a potential future attack on the capitol, this is a hard one because this is not something that perhaps
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intelligence could have picked up, right? this is not something that perhaps there was chatter about. this was someone who acted alone, and it's going to be difficult moving forward trying to figure out how to address something like this. >> indeed, especially with the loss of life, and this is another bad day, another bad month for the capitol police, and it's only april. do you expect security protocols to change based on this attack given we're still digesting the changes in security protocols post-january 6th? >> i do think there's going to be a -- well, certainly new discussions about what can be done because the fencing surrounding the entire perimeter around the complex was, as you said, just removed about just over a week ago, and traffic actually was opened up around the capitol as well, and if it hadn't been, then this individual would not have been able to drive his car as close to the capitol complex as he was able to today. of course he was stopped by a barrier, but the fencing was not
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in place that would have prohibited traffic from entering that general area about a week and a half ago. that fence was taken down, of course, because there were lawmakers, particularly republicans who were complaining that it did look fortified. it's not just republican lawmakers, it's also members of the community who were saying this is supposed to be the people's house. we want it to be more accessible. we don't want it to look like we're living in this heavily fortified complex. so it's been -- it's been a political issue. it's also been a community issue, but we're going to have to now be asking lawmakers and asking capitol security what they think should be done here because clearly the capitol is seen now as a very soft target. you have capitol police and national guard standing around the complex, and people who are unhappy with the government for one reason or another now see that this is perhaps easy that they can kind of target and with other fences there, perhaps, that could be limited in the future. so there is still a fence
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surrounding capitol further in, but whether or not a retractable fence or a mobile fence is going to be set up for the longer term security is something we'll be watching for. >> yeah, as you said, people are unhappy with the government or just unhappy, as you mentioned, if you look at some of the stuff we're learning about this guy. we just played a clip of senator ted cruz and others in the republican party basically using the security fence to score political points and wind up their base. ted cruz was among those who rushed to give condolences today. do you think we're going to see a shift, dare i ask, from politicians like cruz and others when it comes to the security situation, have a sober balanced debate about what the right level of security is rather than just try and score points like he did at cpac or lauryn did with her video about pelosi. >> it's a great question, and the answer is i don't know how this is going to play out politically. obviously a u.s. capitol police officer has died, and the other has been injured.
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he is in stable condition at this point. whether or not this is used for bipartisan agreement that something more long-term needs to be done about the security of the capitol remains to be seen because lawmakers, especially republican lawmakers really have made this a political issue about not wanting the fence to be surrounding the capitol, about democrats wanting to stay inside of their kind of fortified area while the rest of the country is exposed to danger. that's kind of been the talking point. so now that, again, another one of -- another capitol police officer who is protecting lawmakers day in and day out has died, i think that, you know, hopefully it will force some kind of meaningful conversations among lawmakers about what really can be done here, not just to protect them but to protect the people that protect them. >> yeah. it's a double whammy. let's see, i hope you're right. i hope something will happen, but i'm not raising my examinations or hopes for this group of politicians. thank you so much for your time tonight, i appreciate it.
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ahead, a profound warning for states considering georgia style voter suppression law tonight, how major league baseball's decision to move its all star game out of atlanta is rippling through state houses across america. we'll talk about it next. ca we'll talk about it next make my own insulin. and trulicity activates my body to release it. once-weekly trulicity is for type 2 diabetes. most people taking it reached an a1c under 7%. trulicity may also help you lose up to 10 pounds and lower your risk of cardiovascular events, whether you know you're at risk or not. trulicity isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. it's not approved for use in children. don't take trulicity if you're allergic to it, you or your family have medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. stop trulicity and call your doctor right away if you have an allergic reaction, a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, changes in vision, or diabetic retinopathy. serious side effects may include pancreatitis.
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and despair, vote for sleepy joe biden. and boredom, you know the great thing, i always say someday these people -- look at all those -- look at all those cameras. you know what i say? someday they're going to get smart. they're going to endorse president trump because if you have sleepy joe, nobody's going to be interested in politics anymore. that's going to be the end of that. >> during his re-election campaign, donald trump repeatedly tried to paint joe biden as the boring option, but that sounded pretty good to a lot of americans who voted to elect biden by a margin of over
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7 million votes. you know what? boring really isn't that bad. here we are in just the 73rd day of joe biden's presidency, and even though covid cases are, again, spiking in states across the country, this time there's a plan. biden has communicated the importance of waiting to reopen the country and the need to keep wearing masks, and today we saw a record number of vaccinations, nearly 4 million. there have been 20 million shots administered in the last seven days. that is all great news and a huge improvement on trump. the u.s. economy added over 900,000 jobs in march, the most since august, and we've talked about this at length, but biden's infrastructure plan that he announced this week would actually help a lot of ordinary people. for one thing, the president's plan would replace all of the country's lead pipes and service lines, dangerous infrastructure flaws that predominantly affect communities of color, such as flint, michigan. trump always talked about about improving the country's infrastructure, but biden is already executing a plan to make it happen.
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sleepy joe, hmm? america is also reentering the world of international diplomacy as biden tries to undo trump's many catastrophic errors abroad. the u.s. and iran have agreed to indirect talks on returning to the nuclear agreement that trump scuttled, something that would make the entire world a safer place. look, there is a lot to still hold biden accountable for, and a lot more he needs to get right, but he's already proved that boring isn't bad. in fact, the exact opposite, and that matters as former president barack obama put it. >> with joe and kamala at the helm, you're not going to have to think about the crazy things they said every day, and that's worth a lot. h a lot. versus the other guys. ♪♪ clearly, velveeta melts creamier. ♪
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suppressed, and will not be able to participate in our democracy, which as you pointed out, whether it's service members on the field of battle, whether it's civil rights marchers and freedom riders, people have given their lives in order to protect and promote the right to vote. >> last night we opened the show with news of the republican effort to restrict voting rights across the country, particularly in texas and georgia, and after former texas congressman beto o'rourke called on texas-based corporations like at&t to take a stand, they did putting out this statement saying they support efforts to enhance every person's ability to vote. contributing writer for the atlantic was also here and argued that major league baseball should pull their all star game from the state of georgia, which is something president joe biden also said yesterday he would support. >> mr. president, what do you think about the possibility that baseball decides to move their all star game out of atlanta because of this political issue?
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>> i think today's professional athletes are acting incredibly responsibly. i would strongly support them doing that. >> today major league baseball announced that they will indeed move their all star game out of atlanta because of that republican-led law to restrict the rights of georgia voters. governor brian kemp who signed this restrictive bill surrounded by white men in front of a painting of a slave plantation expressed outrage at major league baseball's decision. it's important to remember this isn't just about georgia, the brennan center for justice has tallied up just how widespread these legislative efforts to suppress the vote are, quote, as of march 24th, legislator have introduced 361 bills with restrictive provisions in 47 states. right now the corporate response is happening in a very piecemeal fashion. georgia passes its odious law and everyone pressures coca-cola and delta airlines and major league baseball.
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texas is about to pass a voter suppression law and people call out american airlines or dell or at&t. shouldn't we all be focused on the big picture, the national picture? shouldn't corporations now be saying across the board, we are going to oppose these bills everywhere? the ceo of the new georgia project, which along with other civil rights organizations is challenging the new georgia law in court. she joins me now, thanks so much for coming on the show. stacey abrams said yesterday there should be be boycotts of georgia yet. today the mlb announced it's moving the all star game from atlanta. where do you stand on this? do you welcome that move? >> listen, our actions have consequence. we've said for months now that voter suppression is bad for business. we said it directly to corporations and what you're seeing now is american voters who are voting with their dollars, that we've not seen a retraction, a retrenchment,
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we've seen republican legislatures across the country double down, that there are -- there's been a 43% increase in the number of anti-voting bills in legislatures across the country. i maintain that this is one of, if not the central organizing issue for the gop in this moment. the white lash that we are living through, that we are experiencing as a result of elevated voter participation has been severe, and it's been widespread, and that's why we're suing, and that's why we're calling on congress to pass hr 1 and hr 4 because fighting this piecemeal state by state by state is inefficient -- >> exactly. >> -- and we don't have time. there are municipal elections that are coming up this year in georgia and in states across the country, and we need to make sure that we protect the fundamental freedom to vote. >> you mentioned your lawsuit. what do you hope to achieve with
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your lawsuit? what's the plan? >> the plan -- the hope is to, a, stop a lot of this trash from happening, so while we are forcefully advocating for hr 1 and hr 4, the truth is that it doesn't neutralize all of the awful things that are in the georgia bill that passed. for example, there are provisions in the georgia bill that allow the state legislature to take over county boards of elections who they deem are underperforming, and that won't be addressed in hr 1 and it won't be addressed in hr 4, and so the hope is with the lawsuit that all -- that, a, it will confirm that this was an unconstitutional move by georgia republicans and, b, that we can ameliorate and stop this madness in the interim before hr 1 and hr 4 is eventually passed. >> if that passed, indeed, let's see what happens in the senate
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with the filibuster debate. you have the ceos of coke and delta coming out strongly against the new georgia law, but it's already law, of course, it passed. is it too little, too late from these ceos. can they do better, speak louder, sooner, in other states like texas where these laws are being pushed as well? >> ab vutly. unfortunately it's too late to stop the bad bill from passing in georgia. governor kemp and the six dwaf fs signed it a into law removing any doubt about what their intentions were when they signed this bill. again, there are 46 other states that are deliberating similar or worse anti-voing bills right now, and so they need to be louder and they also need to walk it like they talk it, right? hr 1 and hr 4 absolutely have the ability to neutralize these anti-voting bills, and they also need to defund this gop voter suppression effort. the reason that we brought up
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coca-cola, the reason that we called out delta is because collectively, them and other georgia-based corporations have given over $7 million to the republican sponsors of these -- of this legislation, and so, you know, it's not just that, you know, corporations have a role in sort of defending our democracy, but they are -- they have a role and a responsibility to the tens of thousands of georgia voters that they employ, that it is because we have a democracy that they are able to make profits and do business, and i wonder how they would fare under authoritarian rule, that we have republicans that are trying to insert their will for the will of the people, for the will of the voters. so there are a number of reasons why they need to speak up in this moment, not just because, you know, they are being called out or there are boycotts or people that are, you know -- you
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know, you know, calling them to task and bringing them to the carpet right now. >> yeah, there are a number of reasons, as you say, for them to do what they're doing. you've explained them very well, and we'll have to leave it there. we're out of time, but thank you so much for coming on tonight. thanks for sharing what's going on in georgia, appreciate it. >> thank you. next, another major crack in the so-called blue wall of silence in the murder trial of derek chauvin. the police testimony that could be crucial to the prosecution after this short break. nooooo... quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker and is 2x more absorbent, so you can use less. bounty, the quicker picker upper. ♪ ♪ smooth driving pays off. saving is easy when you're in good hands. allstate. click or call for a quote today.
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the blue wall of silence. that's the name given to the unspoken bond of loyalty and solidarity between police officers when one of their own commits an unjustified act of violence and they don't step in to stop it or they help with the cover up afterwards. but in the minneapolis courtroom this week, we have seen the blue
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wall torn down, brick by wrik. yesterday, former officer derek chauvin's own supervisor testified against him saying he should not have continued to use force on george floyd as long as he did. and today the senior most officer in the minneapolis police department condemned chauvin's actions more forcefully. >> what is your, you know, your view of that use of force during that time period? >> totally unnecessary. >> what do you mean? >> well, first of all, pulling him down to the ground face down. and putting your knee on a neck for that amount of time is just uncalled for. i saw no reason why the officers felt they were in danger if that's what they felt. and that's what they have to
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feel to use that kind of force. >> so, in your opinion, should that restraint stopped once he was handcuffed and prone on the ground? >> absolutely. >> david henderson is a former prosecutor. now a civil rights attorney and he joins me now. thanks so much for coming on the show. as a civil rights attorney who has followed the cases. have you ever seen anything like this? where multiple members of the police force are testifying against someone who was one of their own? >> thanks for having me, no. i have never seen something like this before. and i think that george floyd is going to continue to transform the world in more ways than one. i think there's going to be a clear line drawn between thousand the cases are tried prior to george floyd's death and after his death. at the same time, it's met with a degree of skepticism from me, because i don't want the police
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to exchange one bad habit for on another. i'm thankful of them being honest with the fact that what derek chauvin has done is wrong. but it's systemic. lone wolves don't run in packs. >> you know, you could argue the cynnic is them hanging him out to dry saying it's not us, it's one bad apple. and you are right, it's a systemic problem. talk about the defense, can the defense legal team recover from lieutenant zimmerman and from other powerful witnesses this week if you were the defense lawyer, what would your strategy be to win the case? >> the defense can absolutely recover. from what i have seen of their team so far, i don't expect it to happen. let me say it in full disclosure. i think derek chauvin should have been charged with a higher level of offense and he should serve a long sentence for what
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he did to george floyd. the way you win the case is by putting the minneapolis police department on trial. they did not pay $27 million to the floyd familiar to be nice. they were sued and in the lawsuit, it was alleged that derek chauvin was acting pursuant to their policies. i think if you were to cross examine them on that point the police chief could not answer the questions. between that and the doubt with medical causation, that would be a path to victory if derek chauvin took the stand. >> isn't that a double edged sword. i remember when the trial started, i was speaking on this show and my other show, what about the pros and cons of the lawsuit. that is a $27 million settlement. it could look like justice is done. the jury could say, they got $27 million, and i don't need to
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send this cop to prison. but if you focus on the suit, is that showing that the city accepted some responsibility of what happened? >> it's both of the things that you said. juries normally take the opinion that you first expressed if money has been paid, why do we send someone to prison. once the settlement came in the criminal justice system forgot about what happened to her. which was wrong. when you combine the lawsuit with the rest you need toer argue and there's no way around it. when you are charged with an unintentional killing you have to take the stand and admit fault, so here what derek chauvin would have to do is say, what i did was wrong and i wish i could take it back and i can't. i don't know if he is capable of doing that. and he should say, listen, it's clear i'm not acting on my own and the lawsuit shows that and i think they would have to admit it if they were pressed.
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>> interesting. as a veteran observer in these kind of cases what surprised you in the trial. apart from the police stuff, what surprised you about the trial and the witness testimony, what stood out to you? >> what stood out to me, is what i have been thinking about every night when i go to bed. what i think about the most is not what i observe as a lawyer. i was surprised how much the video footage and in comp nalgz -- in combinations with hearing the witness testimony, how heavily it weighed on me when i laid my head down on the pillow. i kept hearing the words hopeless and helpless and i kept feeling that the by-standers are speaking of people of color in general with how we deal with policing and i was surprised how effectively the paramedics testified and i think they will turn the tide in the battle that is coming in the experts. >> as someone who has been a
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prosecutor as well, you would be feeling if you were a prosecuting lawyer tonight after a first week of testimony that pretty much went not just according to plan, i think many argue better than expected in terms of the way the testimony is delivered and tb -- and the impact of the witness testimony. >> i have mixed feelings about the case, and i will tell you why. when you are dealing with a violent crime, what it comes down to is sitting down with the family and making sure they understand what you are doing and that they feel comfortable with the direction you are proceeding in. you also need to send that message to the community. because i think i'm a good lawyer. i think i can handle myself well and speak well. but what i tell people is listen, the only thing i can promise you is, you will not have a lawyer who cares about you more or fights harder and that's what tends to heal families and communities. i worry that we are not seeing enough of that in the case. they are going all in. but at the end of the day, this needs to help people heal. and i hope we achieve that. >> i hope we achieve that too,
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david. thank you so much for your time tonight, david henderson. appreciate it. >> my pleasure. >> that is "all in" on this friday night. chris hayes will be back on monday. i will be back on msnbc live this sunday 8:00 p.m., with my own show, my guest will be bernie sanders. the rachel maddow show starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> i hope you have a provision where you get base pay and over a certain number of hours, you get paid by the hour. >> just sleep. >> you have done the work -- >> i just need to sleep. all i need is sleep. >> i give you my sleep coupons for the weekend, my friend. fantastic job. i cannot wait to see your show this weekend. >> thank you. all right, so seems we are having technical difficulties, we will get back to rachel when


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