tv Deadline White House MSNBC April 2, 2021 1:00pm-3:00pm PDT
the los of life includes one capitol police officer and another according to union seriously injured. we'll follow this story throughout the day here on msnbc. that wraps up this hour. "deadline white house" with niccole wallace picks up our breaking coverage. hi, everyone. it is 4:00 in the new york. we begin with that breaking news. one capitol police officer is dead and another is injured after a man struck both officers with his vehicle at a security barrier on the north side of the u.s. capitol. noah green jumped out of the car with a knife and shot by police and taken to the police where he died. sparking a massive security response. our friend punch bowl news captured this video of the hospital landing on the east front of the u.s. capitol. the fbi, atf and national guard
also on the scene, the police say that the incident does not appear at this point to be terrorism related. but an investigation is still ongoing. all of this, of course, taking place just under three months after the deadly january 6 insurrection. in which hundreds of trump supporters and violent right wing extremists stormed the capitol, five people were killed on that day and from those event just that led attack led to heightened levels of security with national guard deployed at the u.s. capitol through at least mid-may and another devastating blow to the capitol police force. 140 officers injured and officer sicknick was killed on january 6. acting police chief this afternoon acknowledging the toll that this year has taken on her department. >> i just ask that the public continue to keep u.s. capitol
police in and their families in your prayers. this has been an extremely difficult time for u.s. capitol police. after the events of january 6, and now the events that have occurred here today. so i ask that you keep our u.s. capitol police family in your thoughts and prayers. >> starting us off on this breaking news story, nbc news investigations correspondent tom winter is here. also live outside the capitol nbc news political reporter vaughn hilliard and msnbc national security analyst clint watts, a former fbi special agent. tom, i understand you have new information. >> that's correct. as the viewers heard, our colleague pete williams identifying the suspect as noah green, 25. orally from indiana and believed to have ties to the virginia area and looking at the facebook page i want to read a recent post saying peace, friends,
family and enemies and the like. to be honest these past few years have been tough and the past months tougher. i've been tried with the biggest tests in my life. i am currently now unemployed after i left my job partly due to afflictions. i haven't had much to lean on. i've been faced with fear and hunger. a faith is thing to carry me through the times and centered on the belief of the honorable minister farahkan and jesus. this is an individual that's fallen on tough times and something triggered him today according to law enforcement officials to drive that blue car that you're looking at on the screen into a capitol barricade and then according to police when he came out of the car lunged at officers with a knife
and shot and succumbed to the injuries at the hospital so that's what we know so far. we now know that the persons specific name as we mentioned. as far as motive that's still a question mark. more investigation needs to be done at this point. but at least we know who this individual was. and we know that according to their own facebook post somebody who's fallen on difficult times. >> your beat among the beats is law enforcement. this is another loss of life, another family grieving the loss of a loved one, a capitol police officer becoming the fourth capitol police officer to lose his life in 2021. >> it's manager that's definitely being felt throughout the law enforcement community. i can't imagine what it is like in the lockers of the capitol police rite now after everything they experienced january 6. the criticisms of the department, the feeling among probably the rank and file
police officers that they were put in an untenable situation on that day. some of it within the capitol police's leadership control and some of it not and now an incident today where the officers are directly attacked and they have to shoot and kill a suspect and one of your own colleagues is dead. that's a very difficult thing for any police department but one going through the trauma they have and it is trauma. speaking with law enforcement officer in the past that they have gone through in the last three months i cannot imagine what it must be like to wear that uniform today. i think that's a concern and also just the general increase in violence. it is a very violent three weeks in this country in many respects. when you think about it, we have had several mass shootings, three in particular, an officer killed in one. think of the one in colorado, of course. and then on top of that you have just rising crime in general in this country grappling a host of societal issues that led to an
increase in homicides that we started seeing shortly after this period last year. and it's particularly impacted the minority communities and some largest cities so it's been a very difficult time the last year but in the law enforcement community in particular as the law enforcement entire community of law enforcement officers across the country had to grapple with the issues coming out of minneapolis with the death of george floyd, with protests, their own actions and the actions of criminals. it is a come together in kind of a pot of really difficult times at this time. >> god bless, tom winter, clint for brightening the lens. i think about the procession shortly after knews broke of the mass shooting in boulder. this is another law enforcement official killed in a violent incident. the man was wielding a knife but
an officer did lose his life. take me through the investigation into this individual where it is today and then pick up tom's broader point. clint? >> yes. just in terms of the investigation, i think what they're probably trying to figure out and seem to have done quickly is really make sure there are no connections to a broader plot. i'm sure the immediate reaction was this is the same target as january 6. is it tied to that event? you need to remove all of those sort of linkages that are there. once they did identify this person and what's going on is there other signals and the social media space as tom was details were there other people in that orbit? what i find remarkable is how quickly they came out identifying the subject, discussing what happened that they feel fairly confident that
there's always a possibility that they'll come up with additional evidence but they feel fairly confident it's not tied to a broader terrorism plot. i think what tom was getting at at the end is going back to christmas day with the bombing in nashville we have a lot of violent incidents in u.s. cities? we had shootings in atlanta, boulder. >> clint, let me break in and i believe our reporter vaughn hilliard is on the ground there. this is the procession? is that right? the capitol police officer that lost his life today? vaughn, if you can hear us? >> we are getting word -- >> this is the procession. >> can you hear me? >> i can. this is a procession -- >> okay. >> carrying the capitol police officer who lost his life today
to the medical examiner's office. are you able to see this from where you're standing? >> yeah. i am not able to see where this procession is coming from. all i know is that we have been told it will come past constitution avenue. i believe you're looking at the chopper video i can't see myself here. but we are just getting word this is a procession that's carrying the remains of this capitol police officer who died in the line of duty here today and this procession will be leading to the medical examiner's office here. to my understanding, we have not yet named this individual as the capitol police acting police chief said that she was still trying to reach out to the next of kin before making that name available to all of us in the public to pay our respects. but i know once that procession here makes the way past here we'll stop and of course pay tribute to the life of that individual here.
this is the scene right now. outside of the capitol. they just allowed us to get closer here to this perimeter and see the capitol building right there. we'll pan around over here to the left. you see an aerial video. that's the senate russell office building there and the windows up there where that video is taken hereof the course of the afternoon. looking out constitution avenue just opened up two weeks ago. there's a celebration not only among residents here of d.c. but also those of staff, of a return to some normalcy here around the capitol grounds, just two weekends ago that that layer of fencing was taken down and folks get up here to what you see is one layering of fencing and that barrier has long been there. the one that the car drove into here this afternoon.
general honore tasked by the speaker pelosi for a review of what changes need to be to capitol security and general honore made it clear that capitol police was outmanned, underfunded, inadequate resources, inadequate treatment and training and said it takes additional 850 police to be hired here in order to properly secure the grounds and what you have seen over the course of the last six months is -- are capitol police officers overworked, working long hours here. you have seen a national guard presence remain, 2,300 have remained here around the capitol. this is a tough day here. there are now four police officers here in this d.c. area who have died since january 6. when you're talking about
morale, this is a tough day not only for folks here around the capitol complex but for law enforcement here as conversations continue as to what will this future of the capitol complex look like here. >> i didn't mean to cut you off before, clint. vaughn added to the understanding of this somber day. the body of a capitol police officer who went to work this morning is now traveling in a procession to the medical examiner's office. just pick up on vaughn's reporting about the toll that the capitol police department has suffered in 2021. >> it is heartwrenching and remarkable the number of attacks and officers wounded, killed now in this case. it is a sad time for law enforcement. and just think of the number of
attacks and the number of incidents we have seen just in the last three to four weeks as tom was talking about. we have a social media contagion of a triggering effect -- where we have seen a lot of different attacks, many with personal grievances, some with an attachment to group grievances. i think it's a tough time to be defending the nation's capitol when you know that all eyes are you, your target is in the media. there's talks of lots of different security measures. we've seen people show up at the vice president's house, people show up into d.c. and try to essentially get through security so i can't imagine a more heightened time for any sort of a set of police officers or police agency than right now around the capitol and to have this today and to lose another one and in what is a seemingly
difficult cast to predict to indicate that this would happen, i think it's a tough time for that force as they continue on here trying to protect what is a very hot target it appears inside the united states. >> stay with us. i want to bring into the conversation congresswoman dean of pennsylvania. your first interview on your program is marked on my brain because i asked you if you felt safe there and you said no. today these capitol police officers were indeed under grave threat there. tell me how you feel. tell me how your staff feels. tell me your thoughts about the officer who lost his life. >> thanks for having me on and i'm so sorry the reason. it's a very sad day. you've already spelled it out. look at this. another sad procession. you know? this good friday.
there we are a brave capitol police officer only wanting to protect others, protect us, members, visitors to the capitol senselessly lost so i'm sick and tired of saying condolences but i offer condolences to the family of the fallen officer and the brave officer critically injured as far as we know. i'm sending my condolence to the capitol police but i want to send more than that. i want to lift them up. i want to laud them before a sad processional takes one of them to their medical examiner's. i'm going into the third year and following january 6 i've gotten to know them much better in a much closer way and i have but respect and admiration to those at the highest levels to the beat officers to those who
are special agents who protect members of congress and others. i just want to lift them up. i'm sorry to say condolences. instead we should lift them up in respect for the extraordinary work they do, the quick response they just provided and we have a lot to look at. >> the investigation is obviously in the very early stanls and early indications is that this is not tied to terrorism but the country is under an extended warning about -- sorry? i think we have an official statement now that it does not appear to be terrorism related but the country is still under a threat from the department of homeland security and law enforcement that nationwide there is in the wake of the insurrection and covid restrictions and ongoing simmering anger of the election result a heightened threat and i
wonder on that front and the appearance of a move to a commission is gridlocked, if you think a reminder about how precarious security might be there can nudge it in the other direction. >> i certainly hope we are going toward a commission in terms of the security of the capitol. i had the opportunity to be part of the briefing of members of congress by general honore in that extraordinary esteemed panel of generals who as your reporter acknowledged recommended that we much more invest in our capitol police. both in man and woman power and infrastructure and intelligence. he also pointed out in terms of fencing, this is something i think we have to look at, that we have the -- excuse me, the temporary fencing and high pressure to take much of that down and some did some down, they recommended interim fencing
all before a permanent infrastructure of fencing. we have to look at this. did political pressure pull down fencing that would have protected lives? would continue to protect lives? we have to make sure we look at that. i want to tell you that i was quietly enjoying a quiet couple of hours this afternoon. my phone blew up with my staffers, my co-workers, colleagues making sure everybody knew that we had no staffers at the capitol. we had staffers at cannon house office building or on the campus. as the news was breaking. people are traumatized by this violence so democrats, republicans and nonpartisans have to get together and say we have to take a look at some of the systemic problems of violence in this country, must have of which is blowing up now, take a look at what role did mental illness play in this case
and we can condemn violence and doing everything in our power to make sure that we block violence and make safe places like the u.s. capitol. >> congresswoman, my colleague kasie hunt told us a similar story about making sure that the nbc colleagues were safe and so i can empathize with the feeling and ask you to stay with us. we have breaking news about the fallen officer. his name is officer william billy evans. we're going to go to nbc news capitol hill correspondent for more. can you hear me? >> reporter: news on the capitol police officer. i can hear you. can you hear me? >> yeah. >> reporter: if you can hear me, there is some news about the capitol police officer who has died. he has been identified as william evans. he is known as billy evans. he has been a member of the police force for 18 years.
he was a member of the capitol division's first responders unit. and he tragically lost his life today after succumbing to injuries. this has been quite a last few months for the capitol police officers. i talked to a lot of them in the hallways of the capitol on a daily basis. it is extremely difficult. right after january 6, they were working so much and so hard. 18-hour days, 6 days a week i'm told to keep up with the security demands after january 6. that's even with thousands of national guard troops who have been called to the capitol. their shifts decreased a little bit, now 12-hour shifts, 6 days a week. the morale is extremely low in the capitol police force. because of what happened on
january 6. it's been such a tragic several months for them. one capitol police officer after january 6 took his life. because of it. and then d.c. metropolitan police had, as well. so just this on top of everything they have been through is just such a profound struggle and ongoing -- ongoing tragedy for what these police officers have been going through. and meanwhile there's this intense debate on capitol hill about what security should look like at the capitol. it's become very political. it's become very partisan with some republicans charging house speaker nancy pelosi of building a fortress here at the capitol but this debate goes beyond just
what the lawmakers want, too. a lot of the capitol police officers i talk to are worried about taking this fencing down. we know that with an outer perimeter down and just in the past couple weeks cars finally able to drive on constitution avenue again and why this car was able to access that entrance to the capital capitol grounds earlier today. but capitol police officers are part of -- need to be part of the discussion they say and they worry that these discussions will take place about security moving forward and slight -- despite what they want. and so, this is the beginning of a conversation that's definitely going to change once again after what happened today. a conversation that started, of course, after january 6. >> were you locked down today?
>> reporter: i was. so i was in the russell senate office building which is just to my right, actually, on this side of the street. i'm about 50 yards from that entrance and going on msnbc with chuck todd right 30 seconds before i was going on air i heard the announcement that was sent to the entire complex saying that people inside the buildings were locked down, could not come or leave the building because an exterior security threat. not even a minute later i heard the sirens and tied to a camera talking about infrastructure. once that -- once i came to the windows a few minutes later got to go out on the balcony. the russell rotunda balcony overlooking the capitol and the entire constitution avenue was filled with law enforcement, first responder cars, sirens,
ambulances. the helicopter, a helicopter landed on the east front of the capitol and separates the come from the supreme court. and the library of congress and that's where the helicopter landed. it was a sense of disbelief really. like, something is happening again? especially with the enhanced security presence that was already here. but it worked. the security did work because that -- the person, the suspect was unable to breach the capitol. he was stuck and he didn't get whatever his motive was, whatever he was trying to do. he obviously did not get directly into the capitol, those barriers and the capitol police officers did stop him. >> stay with us. i want to bring back into the conversation congresswoman dean. let me read the statement from
the acting u.s. capitol police chief. she says, quote, it is with profound sadst to share the news of the passing of officer william evans this afternoon from injuries sustained. officer evans had been a member of the united states capitol police for 18 years, began the service on march 7th, 2003. and was a member of the capitol division's first responders unit. please keep officer evans and his family in your thoughts and prayers. we have a name and a face now. somehow that makes it harder. >> it certainly does. to go back to your notion of do i feel safe, what i'm so angry about is these are the very same capitol police officer that is kept me safe, who kept us alive. what i'm angry about is that they are not safe. we have to do everything in our power to make sure we have the resources to keep those who protect us protected.
i am heartbroken over the loss of capitol police officer billy evans. i'm heartbroken for his family. i can't believe we'll see another sad processional as we determine cause of death. we have to do better. we have to keep barriers up. they have to be about protection of those that protect us. >> it is a debate ongoing. congresswoman, if you're able to, i'd ask you to stay with us and bring in kasie hunt. i texted you when you were on the air earlier. you have been i think covering the insurrection with clarity and proportion i think it deserves and this incident is the proverbial salt in a still very open wound. >> it's a very open wound. and thanks very much for having
me. when i heard what the acting chief of police said that they have lost another officer, it felt as the congresswoman was describing, as well, it felt like a punch in the gut to everyone who relies on those capitol police officers for protection day in and day out. it's been a very careful loon to walk in covering this story because obviously we're reporters first but this is also the community of which we are a part. i recognize billy evans. you see these officers every day. you walk past them. you say hello. some of them will ask me about my son or my puppy who visited capitol hill. they are human like everyone. some of them are flawed but they are there to do a job that's protecting and serving other people. to hear that after the
insurrection when brian sicknick was lay in honor a few weeks ago we lost officer leebengood who died by suicide, to have another man die in the line of duties extraordinarily difficult, especially because as was said they have been working overtime. there's been no rest, no break. i think for many of us after the attack and then the subsequent impeachment trial and we all relived it every single one of us felt like, man, i need to take a breath. i took a few days off. the officers haven't been able to do that. they have had to stand at the post longer than normal because the threat escalated. >> the congresswoman and everyone has alluded to the fact that the debate about the very basic question of how best to protect the building after an
insurrection is totally gunked up with the moment brutal of our partisan politics, even anecdotes of people feeling scared mocked and ridiculed by the republicans in congress. do you think that if you recognized officer billy evans surely some members did, too. do you think anything will break through that partisanship around the debate about protecting the capitol? >> i don't. which is a sad statement. i think you have covered and documented extensively during the trump administration, republicans who say one thing, in private say another, in public seemed to be willing to put up with it. until the insurrection. their own home and building was attacked and the inch aftermath i think maybe something will change and this is the thing that makes people say enough.
it is too much. and frankly, not that much time has passed and we have reverted right back to our partisan divisions and i got to tell you it's a little bit demoralizing to watch because you worked for president bush and congress historically very protective of itself, prerogatives, the powers that they had, that the president didn't have. and they started to give those away little by little by little because it was easier for them politically if they did that. i think of particularly air strikes in syria when president obama couldn't get them to take a vote on it because nobody wanted to go on the record but went on the record about the war in iraq. but this is the -- was the ultimate abdication of that power to allow this to happen without taking some sort of
serious action in the aftermath and to essentially listen to the pop list roar coming from their home states which is what's happened. and i know -- you see anyone who's out there on social media saying that everyone was nice on that day or that they weren't scared, senator johnson talking about how no one scared on that day, it's simply not true. everyone in that building was terrified. nobody thought it was possible that the walls of the capitol to be breached by people with weapons and zip ties and that the floors of the chambers taken over. it was ludicrous to think that and as it was happening there was shear terror across the board. i don't care what party you're part of and certainly yes some people that were more afraid than others and i think democrats felt tar getzed
because it was trump supporters, not antifa and remember those people also chanting hang mike pence and not as though it was a situation where it was jt members of one party. if you're winning a pin, of course would be recognized. mitt romney was in danger when he was turned by officer goodman who turned out to be a hero of the day with his colleague just the aftermath and the officers showed up, ket doing the jobs, protecting people in an era of heightened tension and seem to be targeted and us and you referenced this, a first thought i had, again, supposed to be a reporter first but after january 6 i wanted to send a note to my team saying who's there? are you safe? because you just -- you just don't know and that's not a position that i don't think any of us ever expected to be in.
you've worked at the white house, much more intensely secured compound but could you imagine that walking into a secure space and feel like you're safer inside than outside and then to have the most secure piece of that space be violated? i don't think anyone who works or is part of the capitol community is over that yet. >> i was in the white house on 9/11 and secret service told me to look down at the shoes and not very hard to begin with and said take those off and run. i knew the people that checked the i.d. every day so i can imagine how you're feeling today that the person that lost his life is someone that recognized you and officers that ask about your son and puppy. i can relate to all of that. i want do give the congresswoman the last word on the terrorist attack, a domestic terrorist attack on the building where you both work. that in part some of those politics led to perhaps
prematurely taking down some of the security that was up. do you see that debate having new life or do you see as was suggested capitol police maybe having a more pronounced seat at the table after deadly incident? >> as i said, after that briefing with general honore it made no sense to me that temporary fencing would come down before the interim fencing comes up. it's illogical and driven by those offended by razor wire. i was offended by the insurrection and the attack but capitol police saved our lives. it's one thing for us to go in, republicans, democrats, saying every day thank you to the capitol police officers for what they do but we have to do better. so what i ask is may our debate be worthy of their work and sacrifice, let it not be
poisoned and pulled down by politics. it's not enough for us to say thank you. let's be sure the debate is honest, send them the resources they need and protect their lives. >> congresswoman dean, kasie hunt, clint watts thank you all for being part of the breaking news coverage. i'm grateful to all of you. when we come back, a major response this afternoon to those voter suppression laws, this one in georgia. baseball is pulling the all-star game out. we'll talk about that and how corporate america is realizing its role, the importance of rebuking republicans working to suppress the voice and vote of millions. we'll look at that effort when we continue after a quick break. e for members like kate. a former army medic, made of the flexibility to handle whatever monday has in store and tackle four things at once. so when her car got hit, she didn't worry.
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a bombshell today within the wave of backlash against gop-led voter suppression bills in dozens of states. major league baseball announcing in the last hour to relocate the all-star game out of atlanta in response to a new voter suppression law critics say targets black voter turnout. this comes as corporate america is waking up to the reality that selling their products and services to people will become more difficult if they don't help protect the right to vote
for those would be customers. cue a flood of statements on behalf of ceos in the earlier states to pass the voter suppression laws. the texans tribune's reporting on this, corporate giants american airlines and dell technologies were among the first to take a position on the texas law. american airlines took specific aim at senate bill 7 to impose sweeping restrictions aiming at local efforts meant to make it easier to vote like extended early voting hours. senate republicans advanced that measure tuesday. the texas tribune adds dell technologies ceo michael dell declared the company's opposition to house bill 6 and that legislation would prohibit sending out applications for mail-in ballots and impose new rules for people assisting voters to fill out the ballots. all these companies have vast staffs of former government officials and lobbyists whose
job it was to know exactly what was in these laws, the companies can play hard ball when the bottom line is at stake and they do. look how fast corporate america rushed last summer after the george floyd killing. among the dozens of companies speaking out within a week of the death. and if they need more incentive to shout down the laws according to an analysis the georgia law does this, quote, the state election board, newly influenced by the partisan legislation, will have the power to su pend county election officials. let that sink in. the georgia seeks to disempower local officials and hand the legislature more control. imagine how that could have played out last november. bring in the reverend al sharpton, charlie sykes and
robert gibbs. robert, i'll start with you because you have walked in both worlds, the obama white house and corporate america. talk about the decision from baseball which had been talked about by president biden in an espn interview i saw because i follow the sports accounts on twitter and that we started with yesterday and a bold move from baseball and growing core you of ceos following. >> i think major league baseball deserves credit here because these are not easy decisions to make. the planning for these events is months if not years in advance. it is why they announce the games years in advance. so i think kudos to them for what they have done. i think the chorus of particularly corporations and businesses alike that are going to have to speak out as congress is polarized around these issues is only going to grow louder. the expectations are only going
to grow stronger. and i think the wise businesses are going to try to smartly get out in front of this and understand what it means to not only consumers but to employees. again, it is only going to accelerate as the year goes on. and as the news cycle gets faster and faster on issues like this. >> let's be specific because we have both been in the position of advising politicians and companies. 47 states looking at the law. literally every american company living in the states looking at these laws, what does getting in front of them mean? >> i think a coalition of businesses would be a good start of particularly and as a lot of people mentioned places like delta and coke that got caught have been to speak out or got caught speaking out after the legislation went through the legislature. i think it's been a wake-up call
for other states and businesses to lay down a marker now. pick up the phone. legislators call businesses for contributions. businesses can call legislators to tell them to stop doing things if it will harm the tate, the image, the be the tom line and offend the values of companies and people that work for them? companies hear it extermly and internally from employees. and that's what's changed the game in lot lot of these equations. >> rev, i want to read the statement from the commissioner of major baseball. in 2020, major league baseball built a -- we proudly used the platform to encourage fans and communities throughout the country to perform the civic
duty and participate in the voting process. fair access to voting continues to have a game's unwavering support. this is space that the nba most recently has occupied with really impressive ease. players largely supported by the franchises. this is newer for baseball. there's powerful moments from individual players but this is the league saying, sorry, atlanta. >> the league also said in the statement that they've been in conversations with the players' association and some of the players including former players and i think they began to understand that a lot of people in baseball including the players did not want to see them stand on the sidelines here. i salute the commissioner for his decision but i also salute those that were pushing him this way as those that pushed the businesses in texas that stood
up i think it was american airlines and at&t and others because i think without that kind of pressure they would have never dealt with this as we saw what happened in georgia. let's not for the as you just said they have lobbyists that do nothing but work these state capitols day and night so they know what legislation is coming. they could have used their lobbyists in advance to say you can't do this. we'll have to come out. we cannot in the light of what happened with george floyd last year just have corporations think they can throw money at the problem and then duck the substance of laws being changed that would disenfranchise us so i think we are seeing the real maturity of movement and saying we will use our dollars as well as our mass protest to tell you we will withdraw from you if you allow the withdrawal of our vote and i must add this. we must be just as adamant on a
day like today where early reports are saying that this attack in washington may have been on the other side. we must denounce that as fervently as we did january 6. extremism and violence on either side is unskjeiible aechb must be equally and evenly and passionately denounced. we cannot tolerate anyone being targeted for any reason. >> that's right. charlie, it is not a normal position for even former republicans to embrace or encourage boycotts or corporate activism but this is where we are and i made that point of companies having lobbyists and populated by people like myself and robert gibbs epa recruit from former white houses, they knew exactly what was in these laws and the public pressure is the reason for the statements.
not because the lobbyists got in to see their boss and told them what was in it and i wonder if you can pull the thread on sports and the public pressure and this obnoxious statement from governor kemp saying this. georgians and all americans should understand this decision. cull cancel and -- i won't it read it all but claims cancel culture and woke political activists. that's not what happened today. baseball is big enough and strong enough to simply be looking at this, looking at the players, the fans and doing the right thing and feels like a test case for tearing down the straw man of the right's war on wokeness. >> it certainly is a sea change of corporate activism and about to see a pro-democracy backlash in this country but if i could put a word of caution here because there's been a lot of disinformation about some of
this legislation. "the washington post" has done a very, very -- series of very powerful fact checks on the things that the president said about the georgia law. the reason i'm mentioning this is because this is heating up, it is important to get this right. and because otherwise i think that it is going to spiral into a more division. look. whatever the details of the georgia law are you need to take a step back that the original stand of this legislation, it is that it is based on the big lie. donald trump's big lie about the election. it is also based on bad faith efforts to make it harder for americans to vote because republicans believe making it easier to vote means they have a harder time winning elections. the bottom line is the fact that in georgia they retaliate against the number one truth teller in the state, the
secretary of state. but i would say make sure that people get the facts right. disinformation was a cancer in the trump years. we can't allow it to be on both sides here. and by what the reverend just said about the need to condemn violence. i'm not making a both sides argument. what i'm saying is that we are about to engage in a very dramatic fight over the future of democracy, and truth matters, details matter. let's keep our eyes on the prize and not be distracted or engage in rhetoric that can be used against the advocates of democracy. >> i want to make sure i understand what you're saying, charlie, because you're speaking very carefully and i feel like you're not being as blunt as maybe you want to be. say more. >> well, look, you know, "the washington post" -- "the washington post" fact check said, you know, when the president said that this law restricted early voting, that he
was just wrong about it. there's a lot of things to object to in the law, but don't base your decision on wrong information. also, i have to admit that i have mixed feelings about the major league baseball decision. stacey abrams has a very powerful op-ed piece in "usa today" saying, let's not go to boycotts just yet. we're not at that point. and punishing, you know, fans and people who work in concession stands, working people, because of something that republican politicians have done might not be the best idea. but look, i think that the fact that you do have corporate america standing up against this wave of anti-democratic legislation is positive. it is a good thing. i just want to make sure that we make sure that we don't have collateral damage, that we don't hurt people who have not been responsible for this, and that we don't base it on stories that turn out to be urban legends. >> so, "the new york times" also
has a superb piece and my producers are going to scream at me but i'm going to tell our viewers what actually is in the law. there's a whole lot that is worse than what people understand. from the "new york times," what the georgia voting laurel does. many local jurisdictions in georgia and other states particularly those in poorer urban areas turned to outside philanthropic groups like the center for tech and civic life that help counties pay for their elections in 2020. georgia eliminated those options. conspiracy theorists and right-wing circles have long focused on the specter, the specter, not the reality of nefarious outsiders swaying election operations with donations, the theories often involve anti-semitic falsehoods about george soros, the billionaire liberal donor who's also jewish. let me read one more about what the georgia voting laurel does. i like that we brought up fact checks. does allow the absentee ballot process to begin much earlier.
still, no ballots can be counted until the polls close, meaning the process of tabulating the reporting vote totals is likely to be lengthy for high turnout contests, that could lead future candidates to follow mr. trump's lead and try to contest the results of a legitimate election. i will post all the fact checks on my twitter feed, i think all of you for bringing all the facts to bear. i just have to come back to you, rev. no one is suggesting that any of this is playing out in an ideal world. i mean, moving a baseball game is only on the table because one of the two political parties based on a lie that killed people in an insurrection is trying to take that lie and suppress access to voting. that's why we're here. perfect isn't on the table with today's republican party. >> that is why we're here, and again, that is also why i said that, let's remember, some of the players were saying to the commissioner, they did not want to play, and they have the right to say that they want to respect the will of a lot of the people
in georgia. the same people that i agree with sykes about should be able to see a game are the same people that disenfranchising their right to vote and i think that i would -- if i was a resident of georgia, would opt to protect my right to vote than to see an all-star game and a player has the right to say to his league, i do not want to go and play in a state that would disenfranchise people, particularly if it's people of my race. that is what we did when we sanctioned those athletes and artists from going to south africa until apartheid stopped. there's a tradition here. so, yes, i think that what stacey abrams is saying and sykes quoted is understandable, but you have to deal with as the philosopher nicole wallace said, we're not in a perfect circumstance, so we're going to have to deal with those imperfections in a dramatic way. >> philosopher, i am not, but robert gibbs, i'll say this. this isn't going to be popular.
this is a fight where democrats need to fight like republicans. republicans don't care about collateral damage and that's why when they win, it's never because the facts are on their side and it's never a win-win. it's because they take no prisoners. i see this as that kind of fight. the stakes are that high in my view. >> look, i think democrats should fight like this is an existential crisis. i'm less for mimicking necessarily the attributes of your opposition at all costs, but i think your point is one that is well taken. look, this is going to cause collateral damage. there's no doubt about it. there are people this is going to hurt because they're not going to be able to work the concession stand but that's also the same person that didn't have a voice when the legislature rose up and may have made it harder for that person or their family to vote, and look, i think that is, quite frankly, what's at stake with this legislation.
it's what's at stake with this argument. and it's what companies are going to have to face. they're either going to have to get on with some action on this and make their voices heard, or they're going to bear the brunt of it. >> i appreciate all of you so much. my thanks to the rev al, charlie sykes and robert gibbs. do not miss "politics nation" tomorrow where the rev will be joined by martin luther king iii and h.u.d. secretary marcia fudge on sunday. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. e" starts aft break. don't go anywhere. be ready for every moment, with glucerna. it's the number one doctor recommended brand that is scientifically designed to help manage your blood sugar. live every moment. glucerna. hi, i'm debra. is sci'm from colorado.ned to help manage your blood sugar. i've been married to my high school sweetheart for 35 years. i'm a mother of four-- always busy. i was starting to feel a little foggy. just didn't feel like things were as sharp as i knew they once were. i heard about prevagen
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please keep the united states capitol police family in your thoughts and prayers at this time. it has been an extremely difficult and challenging year for us, but we will get through this and we do appreciate the community support. >> hi again, everyone, it's 5:00 in new york. that was a live -- a scene from a few hours ago where we're continuing our coverage of the breaking news of a deadly incident at the united states capitol. to recap, here's what we know at this hour. one capitol police officer has died, and another is injured. after an attacker struck officers with his car just after 1:00 p.m. and then rammed into a security barricade outside the u.s. capitol building. the fallen officer has been identified. his name is william "billy" evans. he had been a member of the capitol police officers for 18 years and was a member of the capitol division's first responders unit. the suspect, according to four senior law enforcement officials, is noah green, a 25-year-old from indiana. police say green got out of his
car after hitting the barricade brandishing a knife and was lunging at the police officers. police shot at green who did not respond to their verbal commands. he later died. the investigation is still ongoing, but police say they do not believe the attack was terrorism-related. just in the last hour, we watched a procession of the capitol police motorcade carrying the body of officer evans to the medical examiner's office and in that procession passing by the capitol on constitution avenue. today, obviously, a tragic incident for the u.s. capitol and d.c. police who are still nursing wounds from the january 6th insurrection. when a violent mob of hundreds of trump supporters stormed the capitol. one officer lost his life, an injury suffered that day, and two others took their lives in the days that followed. joining our coverage, vaughn hillyard, who is live on capitol hill. tom winter also joins us. also with us today, msnbc contributors frank figliuzzi, former fbi assistant director
for counterintelligence, "washington post" contributor columnist, a former congresswoman, donna edwards, and john heilemann's back, host and executive producer of showtime's the circus and host of the hell and highwater podcast. tom, i want to start with you, the latest on the investigation from you, sir. >> reporter: we have had an opportunity to look over the suspect's facebook page and just to take viewers a little bit behind the curtain here, we want to make sure that the photo that's his profile picture in that facebook page has since been taken down. we want to make sure that the photo that is the profile picture matches -- does indeed match the person who is responsible for driving that car that you see on the left-hand side of the screen into that barricade but we have confirmed that at least the entirety of the facebook page does belong to him and last hour, nicole, you remember that i read to you a section from that facebook page which identified job loss, potential financial issues, issues of hunger, that this individual says that he was
going through. he does indicate in numerous places that he's a follower of the nation of islam. in addition to that, he does speak about -- over a series of posts, kind of an increasingly distressing outlook on life given his situation. so that's what we know. it's noah green. mostly, he spent most of his time from the virginia area but also has some ties, perhaps, to the indiana, so that's what we know about him, 25 years old, just had his birthday in the last month or so. so, that's the latest that we know about him. and according to police, what happened is he took that blue car, drove it into a barricade, may have injured some officers along the way, and then once it hits that final barricade, and crashes into it and the crime scene investigators are blocking our view a little bit from the crumpled front end of it. you see it now. once he crashes into that, according to police, he gets out of that car with a knife and at some point lunges at officers.
at that point, they engage in gunfire with him and he is struck by that gunfire, taken to the local hospital where he succumbed to his injuries. that's what we know. obviously detailed the u.s. capitol police officer that lost his life in this and at this point, this really just becomes a question of motive. we know what the individual is. we have a photo of him that will likely be sharing with you shortly. we know a little bit about his recent history according to him and his own personal facebook post, so i guess the question going forward here, nicole, is, is there anything that was written about in the car -- and certainly a lot of people, as we discussed, have gone through a very difficult past year. what took him from the point of having troubles in his life to carrying out what has turned out to be quite a violent act this afternoon at the footsteps of the u.s. capitol? so that's the question going forward and we'll just have to see how things progress over the next couple of days. >> tom winter, do we know how the other police officer is doing? >> last i had seen -- i had seen
stable condition. i don't want to misspeak. i know stable condition. i don't know if that officer was in critical condition or not. i have not heard that the injuries are life-threatening but i do know that the officer was seriously hurt. i just wanted -- i would want to double check that condition, but either way, not great news, but hopefully the officer will pull through and be fine. >> tom winter, i know what you're like from covering some of these tragedies with you. i know you do not want to sit in front of a camera but i'll ask you if you have any new information or if you have anything about the surviving officer, wave your arms and come back. >> that's a promise. you got it. >> vaughn hillyard, let me read you the statement from president biden. jill and i were heartbroken to learn of the violent attack at a security checkpoint on the u.s. capitol grounds which killed officer william evans of the u.s. capitol police and left a fellow officer fight for his life. we send our heartfelt condolences to officer evans' family and everyone grieving his loss. we know what a difficult time this has been for the capitol, everyone who works there and
those who protect it. i've been receiving ongoing briefings from my homeland security advisor and will be getting further updates as the investigation proceeds. he goes on to express the nation's gratitude to all of the law enforcement officers protecting the building, the capitol police, the national guard, immediate response force and others who quickly responded to this attack as we mourn the loz of yet another courageous capitol police officer, ordered that the white house flags be lowered to half-mast. >> reporter: nicole, we bear witness here today to another procession. this of officer billy evans. you know, just three months ago that it was standing on these very streets and watched another procession go by, that for officer brian sicknick who passed away from the january 6th insurrection. there were two other officers here, one officer from the metropolitan police department, who passed away of suicide. that gentleman's name was
officer jeffery smith. and another officer, howard liebengood. today it's cold and it's windy outside. this is a police force here, the capitol police force, that has endured a lot over the course of the last three months. there was a report just a couple weeks ago that was released by lieutenant general russell honore reviewing what happened on january 6th but also looking at what needed to take place here to protect the capitol complex, staff members of congress and i actually just got off the phone with russell honore and i asked him the question of what his message would be here to the capitol police and he told me, quote, you did your job. hang tough and let's give praise to the officer, billy evans, who lost his life and take care of his family. lieutenant general russell honore in that report saying that eight -- up to 850 positions need to be created here for the capitol police. there is a $2 billion
supplemental funding bill that is making its way -- our capitol hill team has confirmed and lieutenant general russell honore telling me that it is his understanding that most of the recommendations that his group made will be included in that bill, but in the meanwhile, and you continue to see essentially a police force here that is trying to keep the members of congress and staff, maintenance, everybody that works around here at this capitol complex safe here wheel that funding measure is waited on and what you saw today was one individual, billy evans, give his life in order to protect this complex, nicole. >> vaughn hillyard, your reporting, unfortunately, has been mostly tragic from that very spot but we're grateful to have it. thank you so much for spending some time with us. frank figliuzzi, this is a tweet from -- this is a mcconnell statement from march 10th. leader mcconnell, quote, i think we've overdone it. i just checked earlier this morning. there have been no serious threats against the capitol.
i think we're way overreacting. all this razor wire around the complex remind me of my last visit to kabul. frank figliuzzi, capitol was obviously the site of an attack against the country by trump supporters and we now know many right-wing militias who remain an enduring threat to the country. but this attack today can't help but renew the debate and the conversation about securing the nation's capitol. >> nicole, i am increasingly concerned that politics has entered into security planning and posture. i said a couple weeks ago on this network in a conversation with stephanie ruhle, on this very topic of was it too soon to change the perimeter and the posture at the capitol, and i said things needed to wait until the recommendations and the review completed by general honore were implemented. and let's remind the viewers of
what those recommendations were. there are currently 200 vacancies on the capitol police force. that was true before january 6th and it's true today. we need about 400 more people to staff a quick reaction force to respond at all times to the capitol and around the capitol region. i don't believe those folks have been selected or hired either. i don't believe they figured out which agencies those folks will come from. so, the fact that we are talking about moving the perimeter, taking down razor wire, i think, is premature. is there some positive news in this tragedy today? the news would be that this happened at the perimeter, at a perimeter, and not inside the building or closer to the building. and it happened on a day when they're not in session inside the building but we have not resolved the security issues discovered after january 6th, and it is absolutely
irresponsible to talk about this is overkill, there's too much security. we have to secure the iconic symbol of our democracy. >> donna edwards, this was your place of work when you served in congress. your thoughts today? >> yeah, first of all, my condolences, obviously, to officer evans' family, to the capitol hill police family, to the capitol hill family. you know, it's a sad reminder that even since january 6th, that we know that the capitol is vulnerable and it may be vulnerable to a lone person or a mob of people. we saw that from january 6th. and i think that, you know, that members have to act really directly on the recommendations of general honore, that they are reasonable recommendations. we know the understaffing of the
capitol hill police, and i think that for members of congress and for the public to feel safe and for capitol hill police officers to feel that they can do their job in the correct way that we have to honor what will protect their lives and protect the lives of the public and the members who serve there. you know, we are just very lucky today, frankly, that congress wasn't in session, because that would have raised the level of concern even more, and those barriers that were designed to stop a vehicle, the ultimate barrier between members of congress and the staff is the capitol hill police officer, and today, one of those officers lost his life, and another one is, you know, lays in the hospital. and so, i just -- i'm so sad for
our country, and i am so sad for the capitol hill police today. >> let's put that picture up again. this is officer william evans who went by billy. john heilemann, our colleague, kasie hunt, said she recognized him. she's covered the capitol for a long time. the common thread between his loss of his life today and protecting the capitol and officer sicknick is that the capitol is increasingly, obviously, has always been a target, but in 2021, has been a target that has cost this country the lives of four, directly and indirectly, police officers. >> yeah, nicole, and of course condolences, my condolences to officer evans' family as well. i keep thinking about a couple conversations i've had in the time after january 6th. one of them was with chuck
hagel, former defense secretary, republican senator from nebraska, was defense secretary under barack obama, one of the -- a vietnam hero, purple heart winner, much revered really in both parties in a lot of ways and it was shortly after january 6th, and we were -- but before the inauguration and hagel was pointing out to me that the risk going forward was going to be copy cats of varying kinds, that one of the aftereffects of january 6th was that this was the kind of event that would put an -- put ideas in the heads of a lot of people who were either unstable or were politically motivated or both and that his fear was that we would see reverberations from january 6th of exactly the kind -- we don't know enough about the motivations of what happened here today, but just the fact that it was an attack on the capitol gives you some sense of the risk that he was outlining and then secondly, i just talked the other day to
debbie dingell from michigan. we were talking precisely about this question of security at the capitol and she expressed a point of view of that a lot of congress people have expressed in the last few weeks, which was, we all want to see the razor wire come down. we all hate this level of security. and yet, none of us feel safe. and so, i defer to people like frank figliuzzi and obviously to general honore and others who know way more about what's necessary to secure the capitol but my sense is, at least among the sane members of congress, and that's not all of them, unfortunately, but sane ones, all would like to be past this moment where, as mitch mcconnell says, it looks like kabul up there. everyone wants that. but i don't think that -- my gut is right now that without knowing anything in the kind of detail that someone like frank does, my gut is that it's not safe right now, and that there's still a lot to be done, given the kind of bad ideas, bad intentions, and the kind of
viral, almost infectious nature of the kind of violence that we saw on january 6th and that could go on for quite a long time, i fear. >> frank figliuzzi, you've been invoked twice by john heilemann and now again i will invoke you myself. what is the impact to someone who all we know about this person is what tom winter's reported from his own facebook page, but the images and the insurrectionists themselves posting the images of themselves at the insurrection, in the offices of speaker pelosi and others. what is the connection, and what is that thread that former secretary, former senator hagel is pulling about copy cat crimes? >> yeah, time will tell what motivated this subject, yet we know from experience and past tragedies that subjects of investigation, people who do these things, do pay attention.
oftentimes, when law enforcement enters the residence of such a person as they'll be doing soon, with this subject, they often find that the person's become obsessed with a past act, wants to copy that, seems to want that affirmation, likes the idea of glory. now, we don't know if that was the case here, but i know this with certainty. it doesn't help when there's been a horrible and very public act of violence against our democracy and it's happened at our symbol of democracy because it turns that symbol of democracy, our capitol building, into a greater target than perhaps it's ever been in modern history and again the security planning and posture needs to reflect the fact that it is now a target, regardless of the members of congress who are always and have always received threats against them individually, the building itself now has become a target. >> frank figliuzzi, donna edwards, and john heilemann are all sticking around.
it's that kind of day. we will, of course, continue to monitor this breaking story. we'll bring you any development as soon as it happens. but when we return, a slew of new headlines,none of them good, as the scandal surrounding matt gaetz deepens. that's next. and back to the capitol and shocking new developments in the investigation into the january 6th insurrection as the conspiracy case against the car-right militia group, the oath keepers, gets bigger. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. nues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. oh! don't burn down the duplex. terminix. ♪♪ (car horn) ♪♪ (splash)
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that about sums up the headlines gop congressman matt gaetz woke up to about the federal investigation into his possible sex trafficking of an underage girl. "the new york times" out with a new blockbuster account so dark we'll give you a second to clear your kids from the room if they're there with you. justice department investigation into representative matt gaetz and an indicted florida politician is focusing on their involvement with multiple women who were recruited online for sex and received cash payments according to people close to the investigation and text messages and payment receipts reviewed by "the new york times." investigators believe joel greenberg, the former tax collector in seminole county, florida, who was indicted last year initially met the women through websites that connect people who go on dates in exchange for gifts, fine dining, travel, and allowances, according to three people with knowledge of the encounters.
mr. greenberg introduced the women to mr. gaetz, who also had sex with them, the people said. gaetz denies the allegations. his office says that he has, quote, never paid for sex and quote, has never, ever been on any such websites whatsoever. greenberg has pleaded not guilty to his charges. the "times" bombshell comes as cnn is reporting that gaetz showed nude pictures of women he had slept with to house colleagues. he did not respond with any comment when asked about the images. joining our conversation by phone, michael schmidt, "new york times" washington correspondent who broke those stories. donna edwards, john heilemann and frank figliuzzi are still here. mike schmidt, something about this second story that connects congressman gaetz to this other gentleman is this sex trafficking of a minor. tell us, is that the focus of the federal investigation? >> yes, that is a charge that is
very, very problematic. one person in the investigation, joel greenberg, also faces that charge. he was indicted on that over the summer. gaetz is under investigation for having a relationship with the same woman. now, that charge, if convicted on it, comes with a ten-year minimum sentence in prison, so this gives a sense of the depth of legal problems that gaetz could face as his conduct is being scrutinized. >> mike, the other gentleman has already been charged with sex trafficking of this 17-year-old. congressman gaetz with the same 17-year-old, the same potential charge, is there any indication in your reporting of where that investigation stands from the time that greenberg was charged to where they may stand in terms of gaetz's exposure. >> well, we know that they have -- the government has
sought to interview some of the women that they have talked to some of the women. the government has obtained, you know, some corroborating evidence that goes beyond what, you know, we certainly had in our story. what we've been able to do is get a sliver of some of the screen shots of receipts and communications that went back and forth between these women and these men that gave us a greater sense of how joel greenberg was going online to this website and recruiting women who were then being paid to have sex with him and mr. gaetz. >> so, and i saw a lot of the commentary on the story that you and your colleague posted late last night, the "times" literally has the receipts. the comment from gaetz's office, then, is a lie. he said he never paid for sex. you literally have receipts
which suggest a financial transaction, is that right? >> well, certainly, what the information that we have and that we presented in this story shows that gaetz, you know, did pay for these things. some o we wrote in the story showed that gaetz would go to an atm in the hotel and take cash out to make some of those payments. so, look, you know, gaetz has said a lot of different things since we wrote our first story about it earlier in the week, and you know, if there's -- i guess we'll see what happens. >> so, frank figliuzzi, i mean, "the new york times" has reported on the receipts that make clear that the statement that he hasn't paid for sex is a lie. where are you in terms of law enforcement and prosecutors if you've got the receipts in hand, you know the age of the girl is 17, that is, i think, federally, the sex trafficking charge is statutory rape would be the
state crime but you're in a whole lot of dog doodoo, no? >> yeah, this is getting increasingly serious, and it appears this is beyond just one victim, but let's talk about this for a second. serious enough that we're talking about an underage girl and paying for her to travel. it's an fbi violation. it's interstate travel for the purpose of having sex with a minor, but now, let's talk about displaying the allegation that he has displayed photos, nude photos of women he slept with. if one of those photos involves someone under age 18, he's in possession of child pornography. if he's distributed that via his computer or phone, it's distribution of child pornography. if he's aware with regard to people over age 18 or older, if he's aware that they are being trafficked because greenberg is involved and he's telling gaetz, hey, these women are being bought and paid for and we're moving them around for this purpose, he is now an accessory
to trafficking women for sex. this is increasingly serious. other media outlets also reporting that he may have used campaign funds as a way of paying for the expenses for these women, another serious federal violation. they just keep mounting up in terms of charge after charge. >> you're right, frank, there is a crush of other reporting that has come out since the original "times" story. let me share some of that with our viewers as well. this is from the "daily beast." republicans have been waiting for a matt gaetz scandal to make. quote, more than a half a dozen lawmakers have spoken to these reporters about his love of alcohol and illegal drugs as well as his proclivity for younger women. it's a -- it's well-known among republican lawmakers that gaetz was dating a college student, one over the age of consent, in 2018. she came to washington as an intern. one former gop staffer said their office had an informal rule to not allow their member to appear next to gaetz fearful of the inevitable scandal that
would come out one day. this reporting makes clear that there were a lot of flashing yellow lights ahead of time. how does that sort of fill out the picture for investigators? >> well, it certainly leaves folks to be interviewed. the fbi will have no shortage of people with fancy titles in front of their name, like congress member, to sit down and talk to about this. it also may trigger ethics investigations of those who failed to report their concerns about him, and let's not forget that there's another charge that could be pending here, which is in trying to defend himself, which he has not done very effectively, he may have disclosed a pending fbi extortion investigation, even exposing his father allegedly wearing a wire. you know, extortion investigations might involve undercover agents, court-ordered wiretaps. he could be facing obstruction of justice for exposing a pending federal investigation. this does not get better for
him. >> you have, in the past, shared some of your past expertise in profiling. i wonder if you watched his interview on tucker carlson where he sought to pull tucker carlson into the scandal that ensued after mike and his colleagues' first stories still broke. tucker said, you remember the girl. and tucker carlson starts to say, no, pal, you're on your own. what do these -- i mean, does tucker carlson now get interviewed about what girl he met? >> well, first, let me clarify, i was never a profiler. i've done many things, been called many things, but i do have experience with the behavior of criminal subjects and witnesses, and i can tell you that tucker, you know, gaetz threw tucker under the proverbial bus and yes, add tucker carlson to the list of potential witnesses, because if tucker, indeed, had dinner with this underage girl or some other underage girl, then he would be
potentially a witness as to what matt gaetz was doing with that girl or others at the time. >> mike schmidt, what are the next questions that you and your colleagues have about this investigation? >> i think we're just trying to figure out who else may have been involved in this. we reported today that there was a florida state republican politician who was tied in with this, and you know, i guess we're trying to see where the government plans to take it, take the investigation, and how long it will be before we see, you know, some sort of resolution, some sort of conclusion of the investigation and a determination about whether charges are brought or not. >> and of course, donna edwards, this is about more than an investigation. this is about someone who is loathed in congress by democrats and republicans alike. your thoughts? >> well, it's true, and you know, what's interesting about
this story is that of course he has no friends or few friends on capitol hill who have been willing to defend him, and indeed, you know, the number of lawmakers who talked about him showing them, you know, pictures on the house floor, willing to talk to reporters about matt gaetz and his behavior, and i, you know, so it doesn't -- it doesn't totally surprise me, because i just think that, you know, matt gaetz is loathed by democrats, by republicans, and they're just, you know, waiting to talk, so somebody needs to start asking them some questions. >> loathed by democrats and republicans, loved by the trump family, john heilemann. >> yeah. i just -- yes, loved by the trump family. of course, this is like, i mean, i said this morning on "morning joe," i said that he was like the perfect flower of trumpism, right?
this sort of utterly unqualified, slimy, camera-hogging no-good low life who got elevated to prominence and came in on the trump wave in 2016, whatever you want to call that, the wave on trump's coat tails in 2016 and became known for being known. known for being a fierce defender of donald trump under all circumstances, saying stupid things all the time, and i have been thinking as i listen to all mike's reporting about this and as it's all kind of tumbling out, i just keep going back to dean wermer in animal house when he's talking about kent, and he says, fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through college, son. i keep thinking with gaetz, it's like stoned, skeevy and stupid is no way to go through congress, matt. if you're trying to -- you're in this position right now where the doggy do is hitting the fan
on multiple levels. he's looking around and he has no friends. there's no republican who's not happy to throw matte gaetz off the side. every democrat is delighting in seeing matt gaetz torn apart. this
was -- this guy's been wearing the scarlet "s," all those s's i just used before, since he came to congress. everybody saw this coming. this was like the car crash you could see coming a mile away and now it's finally happened and it's just all the more kind of garish and technicolor than anyone could have imagined but not surprising in the least. >> mike schmidt of the "new york times," thank you for joining us and bringing us your great reporting on this story. donna, john, and frank are sticking around. when we return, the conspiracy case against a right-wing militia groups who stormed the capitol on january 6th is getting bigger. that story's next. is tting bigger that story's next. [laughs] ♪ hold my pouch. ♪ trust us, us kids are ready to take things into our own hands.
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police outside the u.s. capitol are right now removing the car that rammed into a police barricade, killing one officer and injuring another. the attack today bringing back very recent memories and trauma of the capitol insurrection just three months ago, and there are some stunning new developments in that investigation that are starting to paint a picture of a larger conspiracy than anyone originally thought, than was ever originally reported. in a new indictment issued yesterday, prosecutors allege that the oath keepers founder, stewart rhodes, and several of his associates, including those guarding donald trump's friend,
roger stone, on january 6th exchanged nearly 20 phone calls over the course of a few hours that coincide with the breaching of the police barricades and the building itself. the newest indictments clear a way to the oath keepers' founder and a person they say he put in charge of the group's operations that day, making more clear that this was likely a coordinated and planned attack. the 12 defendants in the case face charges of conspiracy and obstruction of an official proceeding, which carry a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison. we're back with frank figliuzzi, donna edwards, and john heilemann. frank figliuzzi, what does this -- this is the public-facing part of the investigation. we see what's happening when charges are filed. what does it suggest is going on behind the scenes? >> yeah, what we've learned publicly is indicative that there is significant investigative effort taking place that we are not aware of and my sources tell me that increasingly, prosecutors are thinking about sedition charges, even tossing around the
possibility of rico, racketeering charges, the same charges you see against italian mafia families, the hell's angels but this is going higher and higher up as we get into the perimeter and circle around the former president and there is no president left to pardon somebody like a roger stone if they were found to have been aware of or engaged in the planning here. these would be new charges not covered by a pardon. so, stay tuned as to where this is going, but i'm extremely impressed, nicole, with the depth and breadth of the investigative effort by fbi and federal prosecutors on this. >> i just need you to say a little more about roger stone, because obviously, it defies logic that the people protecting roger stone wouldn't have talked about what was going on that day. where might this lead?
>> well, look, if we go back to the special counsel report, you'll recall that roger stone was in the thick of things with regard to keeping trump informed about wikileaks and julian assange and what was about to happen and it seems that's his m.o., to be in the middle of stirring up and fomenting trouble. so, we don't know the facts but we know that he was being protected by members of this organization and now, as you said, we just learned that those very people literally physically around roger stone were in significant contact with the leadership of oath keepers, even during -- even during the january 6th insurrection. >> frank figliuzzi, you've been so generous with your time today. we needed you for the first 41 minutes and 27 seconds of our show. i know you have to leave us. thank you, my friend, for spending so much of the day with us. >> sure. >> i'm coming to you now, john heilemann, and i want to read a little bit from the "washington post" reporting on this story, on this oath keeper, rhodes has
denied any plan to enter the capitol and accused prosecutors of trying to manufacture a nonexistent conspiracy. quote, i may go to jail soon, not for anything i actually did, but for made-up crimes, rhodes told texas republicans at a rally in laredo last friday. if we actually intended to take over the capitol, we'd have taken it, and we'd have brought guns. so, three questions. one, what texas republicans are hosting an oath keeper who planned an insurrection against the capitol? two, aren't you admitting intent if all you're saying was, we didn't -- you know, we didn't pull it off but we certainly planned to be there? and he clearly seems resigned to the fact that he's going to jail. >> i don't know, absolutely, and yes. i think, you know, yes. i mean, i -- you know, i find it -- it's an extraordinary thing. the middle one is obviously the one that's most stunning and the one that's most indicative of
why we should look askance at all the rest, right, which is when you hear -- someone who -- someone who's accused in the way that this gentleman is accused and some of his colleagues are accused, you know, if you were really not an insurrectionist, can you imagine, nicole, how outraged you would be, how chagrinned you would be at the mere suggestion that you would ever even contemplate storming the u.s. capitol, armed with guns to stage some kind of insurrection? and if your response to that is that you're basically offended by the notion that anyone would think that if you were doing an insurrection, you would do it this incompetently, that is -- i mean, that is -- it doesn't take a whole lot of freudian psychotherapy to tell you what that person is saying about the kind of person they are, the kind of politics that they have, and the kind of things they would openly contemplate in their spare time. this is a person who is giving the game away there in that kind
of response and i would like to know, to your first question, i have no idea who those texas republicans are, but i would be very interested in finding out. >> i'll keep digging. i mean, donna edwards, i want to nudge this even deeper. the oath keepers are a right-wing militia group. "the new york times" luke broad water has reported on associations between house republicans and oath keepers and the three percenters and the proud boys and others. it seems that part of the disease is the coziness between these groups and republicans, and it's in this story that i read. rhodes denied any plan to enter the capitol. rhodes told texas republicans. i mean, the root problem here seems to be the coziness between right-wing militia groups and republicans. >> right. and it's not hidden, nicole. i mean, there was a time in the old days, i suppose, where if you were going to be a associated with these extremist groups, you would do it in private and in secret.
but, oh no, republicans have it all on full display, willing to meet with them, take pictures with them, invite them to meetings, go to their meetings and give speeches. there is no secret of the relationship between these militia and what should be, you know, kind of mainstream republican party, because there's no such thing anymore. and what is interesting to me is that, you know, the law enforcement has been able to connect all of these dots because so many of the insurrectionists who have been charged were proud of what they were doing. they had it on their facebook pages and on all of their social media, so there was no hiding the ball here. and this connection isn't going to go away when we uncover more and more about the relationship, perhaps between even lawmakers and some of these insurrectionists. >> and we will stay on it.
john heilemann, who has been away too long, great to see you, my friend, and donna edwards, always wonderful to see you, my friend. thank you for spending some time with us. when we return, two big steps forward towards, i don't know, our new version of normal, can we call it that? the cdc has new guidance on travel for vaccinated americans and it comes as baseball season gets under way with some fans in the stands. that story, next. with some fann the stands that story, next
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reason to hope. as of moments ago, more than 100 million americans, nearly one-third of our population, have now received at least one dose of a covid vaccine. that from the cdc, which also offered a pretty solid argument today for getting the jab, a long-awaited update to its travel guidance that says, fully vaccinated people can start traveling within the u.s. two weeks after their last dose at low risk to themselves. they do not need to take a covid test before or after those trips
and they do not need to self-quarantine when they get home when traveling domestically. it's a clear reflection about findings about what fully vaccinated people are less likely to contract and spread covid. >> for example, fully vaccinated grandparents can fly to visit their healthy grandkids without getting a covid-19 test or self-quarantining provided they follow the other recommended prevention measures while traveling. while we believe that fully vaccinated people can travel at low risk to themselves, cdc is not recommending travel at this time due to the rising number of cases. >> let's bring in dr. vin gupta, affiliate assistant professor and evaluations and a global health policy expert and someone we turn to when the news is bad and when the news is good. take me to how you see the country's fight against covid today. >> good evening, nicole.
good to see you. in the u.s. it is a different conversation than it is globally. let's start idea u.s. there are pockets that are concerning where we're seeing increases in cases followed, nicole, critically by an increase in hospitalizations, namely places like michigan where we're seeing that important increase in hospitalizations. that's what i want all your viewers to focus in on. as we get more vaccinations in people's arms, the key metric here when we talk about normalcy is how many people are going to the hospital because less people are going to be getting tested if they have the vaccine. what's happening in michigan, there is a blip upwards in terms of younger people getting hospitalized, so that's something to keep an eye out on. it should all cause us some concern because we know this variant first identified in the u.k. we do think it might be slightly more lethal, more transmissible. what i have seen personally, nicole, i just came from a week in arizona in an icu, younger people affected by this virus.
for all those young people out there, you are not immune. this is a very uncertain virus. so there is some tenuous fragility to our progress here, but progress. >> you're talking about young people. are you encouraged by the states -- i can't remember how many of them opened up vaccine eligibility to anyone 30 and over. is that an over due and necessary step? >> oh, it is absolutely necessary. let me be as specific as possible. i cared for somebody in their mid-30s. otherwise healthy that ended up having a complication from covid that's rare that where the body got paralyzed. but it is uncertain. you can't predict it. i have young people as young as 18 come in with strokes. all those young people out there that think they don't need the vaccine or are invincible. this is an uncertain virus. we don't know how you will respond to it if you get infected. get the vaccine.
we need to be messaging on that critically because that's the key group right now, young people, making sure they city vil lant. >> i might have looked at how to go to a baseball game in the covid era. i learned one of the ways to go to a baseball game in my area is so either have a vaccine card or a pcr test. you are helping another baseball team bring fans back safely. talk about how we do baseball right now in america. >> well, the simple way would be to not do what the texas rangers are doing and follow a different play book. with the seattle mariners, i have to give them credit. i was advising their startup. making sure there is capacity limits. in the case of the mariners, there is a corner of the stadium full where we have pods socially distanced from each other that only have household members in those pods. you want to make sure everybody is wearing a mask. we instituted that very strict guidance.
want to make sure you have social distancing throughout places that are not well ventilated, bathrooms, near the various food stalls, for example. make sure food stalls have grab and go food. in some cases like the giants, they are mandating a vaccine or proof of a covid-19 test. you have to show that before you get entry. there is a way to use common sense to safely reopen up ballparks. mariners are doing it. other ballparks are doing it. the rangers are not doing it. follow common sense. if we follow common sense, it is not that hard. >> dr. gupta, it's also this point in the vaccine where people need things like that. so i wonder how you got involved in helping the mariners. >> you know, i think they probably saw me on your show, nicole, and they said let's reach out. no, it's been a pleasure to work with them and others. and so we're all just trying to help. i agree.
we need this for mental health and we can to it safely. >> thank you for helping your local baseball team. everybody needs baseball. finally, as we do every single day, remembering lives well-lived. a college said he was the kind of guy you want on your side during the tragic reversals of life. he made a habit of being there for people, no matter the time or the day of week. it could be christmas eve. and if you needed him, there he was, ready to help. he was a priest for 48 years, three decades of which he spent with two parishes on staten island. he also had the distinction of once providing an up and coming 18-year-old physician, a young man by the name of harry connick jr. a job playing the church organ. he spearheaded and cared deeply
for his community and they adored him back. next week will be one year he passed away from covid-19 at the young age of 73. on this good friday, the parish hasn't forgotten what he meant to them. the kind of guy you want on your side. we will be right back. i'm searching for info on options trading, and look, it feels like i'm just wasting time. that's why td ameritrade designed a first-of-its-kind, personalized education center. oh. their award-winning content is tailored to fit your investing goals and interests. and it learns with you, so as you become smarter, so do its recommendations. so it's like my streaming service. well except now you're binge learning. see how you can become a smarter investor with a personalized education from td ameritrade. visit tdameritrade.com/learn ♪
i would ask you, you know, there is so many things i want to ask you about, serious week with the coverage. but the republican party, obviously, i saw some of your coverage dealing with that investigation is really something with mr. gaetz. >> you understand this, i'm sure, better than me from a legal perspective. but to be at the point where the investigation is about sex trafficking with the same minor seems like a very mature investigation. one individual who had sex with that minor already charged. and it feels -- and i don't know what you think about that, but it feels like the evidence, if it's already in the hands of the new york times, literal receipts, actual receipts of payments for sex it feels like a pretty mature investigation. >> it's clearly something. clearly the times has been out front on that story, but the doj has been on it since the previous investigation. we'll get to it. we hope you have a great weekend. >> you too, my friend. >> thank you very much.