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tv   MTP Daily  MSNBC  March 31, 2021 10:00am-11:00am PDT

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>> please. >> and if you would again, show the jurors where you saw them, well, if you would, just put an "x" on here where you were parked when you made that second video, do you know what i mean try again? okay and if you would, show the videos where you saw them walking mr. floyd after you stopped recording. >> and walking him this way. >> and so at some point, you started up your car and drove off out of the area. >> correct >> and can you show the jurors where you drove when you did that and so the record should reflect you turned from 38th street to go what would be southbound on chicago?
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>> correct >> and the record should also reflect that you are indicating that the officers walking mr. floyd from the dragon wok corner, what would be northbound on chicago, correct? >> correct >> towards the cup foods store >> correct >> now, when you turned and went south on chicago, had they already walked mr. floyd in front of you over to that or did you cut in front of them, do you know what i mean >> i believe they already crossed. i'm not sure, to tell you the truth. i'm not sure if it was before or after, to tell you the truth >> but at one point you said earlier, you saw them putting him in a squad car >> right, right. >> where did you see that taking place? >> over here >> so when you turned to go southbound, is that when you looked -- >> behind us in the rearview, yeah >> okay. and have anything else to do with that, seeing that night >> nope. that's it.
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>> i have no further questions, your honor >> any cross >> sir, you may step down. thank you. >> side bar.
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>> this is chuck todd. it is the time slot for "meet the press daily. we are in the midst of a side bar as you can see right now while we wait there, let me bring in folks who have been watching this trial with us. of course, we have, i believe, that shaquille brewster is on te ground defense attorney -- hang on a second >> we're going to take a lunch break now and try to reconvene about 1:15 thank you. >> well, there you had it. we do now, are officially in the lunch break. we had anticipated that this might be the case. and so we go that. so this is day three of the murder trial of derek chauvin and after yesterday's emotional
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testimony, from eyewitnesss about george floyd's death today, prosecutors have been focusing on the minutes before floyd's life came to an end and what led to his run-in with police that day. they presented never-before-seen surveillance video of floyd inside the cup foods before the police were called the footage shows him buying a pack of cigarettes and we also heard from christopher martin, he's the store clerk who sold him those cigarettes and who suspected the $20 bill that floyd used to pay was counterfeit. >> i just saw a few people at first and the crowd grew larger and pretty soon the store was empty as well, so there was no one i needed to help inside the store, so i proceeded to go outside to see what was happening. >> and when you went out there, what did you see >> i saw people yelling and
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screaming. i saw derek with his knee on george's neck on the ground. >> martin also testified seeing floyd loaded into an ambulance, what he felt was about to happen, and let me see if we have that bite >> did you think that bill might not be legitimate? >> i didn't. >> so what did you decide to do? >> i took it, anyways, and i was planning to just put it on my tab, until i second-guessed myself, and as you can see in the video, i kept examining it and i eventually told my manager. >> all right >> and when you told your manager, what happened next? what were you told to do >> he told us to go out to the
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vehicle and to ask him to come inside to discuss what just -- just happened >> we saw you standing there with your hands on your head for a while, correct >> correct >> what was going through your mind during that time period >> disbelief and guilt >> why guilt >> if i would have just not tooken the bill, this could have been avoided >> so that was testimony and you can hear there from the store clerk and that was easily the most riveting of the morning shaquille brewster is kocovering the ground for us. and joining us mary moriarty and danny cevallos and also with us is erin haynes, editor in large for the 19th and an msnbc contributor. shaq, let me start with you. we're still having witnesses that are -- what i would call sort of firsthand eyewitnesss to what happened that day
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how many more witnesses, eyewitnesss from the day do we expect and when do we expect them to move to expert >> that remains to be seen, chuck. the prosecution has not given us, certainly, any preview of what they are going to do, or at least any schedule we got a preview in those opening statements, but we don't know when the different witnesses will testify but i think something that is clear from this morning is, we just don't know how much more is out there in terms of this video. the video surveillance from inside the cup foods, it helps paint a fuller picture it gives us an idea of what george floyd was doing in the moments before this incident started. how he handed off the counterfeit bill and you heard a key thing from that witness there, in part of the interaction. this is part of the cross-examination with eric nelson he said that the reason why -- he said, first, that he experienced and he saw a counterfeit bill earlier in that day, but he said the reason why he accepted it from george floyd is he said, i thought george didn't know it was a fake bill
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now, that stands out, because you talk about the demeanor of george floyd that's something that the defense has been poking at, has been referring to. the fact that he had drugs in the system and then this witness said, yeah, he did believe he was high, but he did have a conversation with him. and he gave that idea that he didn't think that george knew he was doing something wrong. that was a relatively new detail that we heard. the store policy of why this person felt guilty, the fact that if he accepted the bill, it would have been deducted from his paycheck or from his tab, based on how this store operates we're getting a fuller picture of what happened before the police even arrived, and then with the witness who was just currently on the stand, now we're getting an interaction or some new details on what happened once the police finally got there. so we're getting a fuller picture of what happened before that nine-minute video of george floyd under the knee of derek chauvin, chuck >> and shaq, i want to play the bite for mr. martin, because he
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also -- he made another interesting observation about what he saw when the ambulance left let's play this bite >> later on that night, i deleted it because when they picked george up off of the ground, the surveillance went straight on to 38th instead of going straight on chicago and if you live in south minneapolis, the easiest way to get to the hospital would have been straight on chicago. so that's me kind of made it like clear that he was no longer with us. >> shaq, this is what i feel like we're getting from all of the eyewitnesss so far, is they're painting -- they're painting a scene here that what seems to be missing is sort of what triggered the police officers that seems to be the -- all of it -- it's sort of, everything here is just sort of -- and you get that sense from the eyewitness accounts, whether
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it's the description of which way the ambulance went or different things, it's sort of like, this was not a chaotic scene. this was not a violent clash of any sort >> and in some ways, chuck, that goes to what the defense had been saying, that it's not just about that 9 minutes and 29 seconds, that this was a full incident, a full occurrence. that new video inside of cup foods, we saw george floyd was there for a period of time it was not, as you said, a split-second instance. there was time that for the clerk and for the cashier to go to the car, go outside to the car, twice, and have full conversations with floyd and his companions in that car that's a great point i think that bite that you played, one other note that i certainly found from it is the fact that he took video -- he was referring to video, cell phone video that he took of the ambulance, of george floyd under the knees of officers. and he took that video, and because of the direction the ambulance went, that's why he
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deleted the video. this is not somebody who wanted to be testifying on national television he said, i didn't want to have to explain this to anyone. he told his mother not to come downstairs because they were living above that cup foods. you get an idea that many of the witnesses we've heard from, these are people going about their normal lives, doing regular things, and now they're testifying about what they consider an outrageous death >> mary moriarty, i want to play another excerpt here from mr. martin's testimony, and that is where he speculates about about george floyd's behavior in the cup foods. take a listen. >> you describe for the jurors and tell me what his demeanor was like what was his condition like? >> when i had asked him if he played baseball, he went on to respond to that, but it kind of took him a little long to get to what he was trying to say.
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so it would appear that he was high >> so you just had some signs that you throughout he was under the influence of something >> yes >> but were you able to carry on at least some conversation with him? >> yes >> so, mary, that line of questioning, why is the prosecution going ahead and going down that line >> they've never hidden from the fact that george floyd was using drugs at the time. but it also goes to show along with video that george floyd was perfectly capable of functioning. if you watch that video, you can see george floyd walking back and forth. he's actually there for a period of time, because his cell phone was being repaired you can see him laughing and joking and talking to people and as the witness described, they had a conversation about football versus baseball mr. martin described george floyd as being very friendly and he said, yeah, it was clear
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that he was high, but he was functioning just fine. so i think both of those things are important, not for the state to run away from the fact that george floyd had been on drugs that's not a surprise here but also the fact that he was able to function just fine >> danny cevallos, this is a question -- i know you're a long-term defense attorney, but this is why witnesses are painting a picture -- what i'm trying to figure out is, why did the police officers escalate this that does appear to be the case that the prosecution is laying out. all right,here's what's happening before the confrontation, and there doesn't seem to be a very good explanation as to why derek chauvin did what he did. >> that's an interesting question and i'm sure miss moriarty could tell you that in most places, when the police are called, once the decision is made to pull somebody out of the car, you're getting out of that car. and if that ends with you in the back of a police car, it ends with you in the back of a police
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car. similarly, once the police make the decision to arrest, you are getting arrested and if that means they have to use force, they will escalate force until they can secure you and put you in the back of the car. it's an unfortunate reality and it's probably a conversation we need to have about escalating force and how it's done, but what this testimony showed us is that this was a call that came in from the store. we saw why it happened we saw the events leading up to it we do see them trying to negotiate with george floyd and the other people in the car, them not being interested in resolving it and the police being called and why they decided to escalate to this level of force i don't think has beenen answered by the witnesses, band the defense doesn't have an answer either. being arrested and having to use reasonable force is one thing. the knee on the back of the neck for nine minutes is a totally different thing. >> mary, how do you think the
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prosecution is doing so far? >> i think they're doing really well and i want to go back to that point. i don't think we knew before today that it was certainly possible that george floyd didn't even know that he had given a fake $20 bill. and this witness, mr. martin, who testified this morning, was pretty clear about that. that the passenger in the car, who was wearing the red, had tried to pass a fake bill earlier. and so when mr. martin was forced by his employer to go outside and talk to the people in the car, he actually chose to talk to the passenger in the red. it was with that man that he had all of the conversations, and he believed that george floyd didn't know that this was a $20 bill and that makes -- or a fake $20 bill and that makes a big difference, because this is actually a gross misdemeanor in minnesota it should not have meant that the police were approaching the car with a gun and immediately
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taking him into custody. he could have been given a citation, an investigation being done in terms of how the state's doing, i think they're doing really well, although that's not unexpected and yesterday's tom was extremely emotional. we got a much fuller view of who those bystanders were. we've all seen the video and we've heard people yelling, but we didn't know who they were and we also didn't know the traumatic impact that this has had on all of them and the tremendous guilt that many of them feel, including mr. martin today. you can see him in the video with his hand on his head -- he's in the tan pants and the sweatshirt, with his hands on his head, and when he was asked what he was thinking, it was disbelief and guilty, if i had just put this on my tab or done something differently, this would not have happened.
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>> well, you bring me to -- you talk about some of the eyewitnesss or the folks that were there, jennifer hanson, the emt, she testified yesterday, it was a short testimony, but seemed to be pretty powerful let me play an excerpt to that >> 911, what is your emergency >> hello i'm on the block of 38th and chicago and i literally watched a police officer not take a pulse and not do anything to save a man and i saw it myself >> i ordered them to walk it through or told them, if he doesn't have a pulse, you need to start compressions and that wasn't done either >> how did that make you feel? >> totally distressed. >> were you frustrated >> yes >> erin haynes, there's been a lot of powerful testimony.
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that's right up there. and she seems to be a highly credible witness here. >> well, chuck, i think -- yeah, what was striking about that first responder's testimony was, you know, here was somebody who felt like she was not able to do her job and she felt like she was witnessing a law enforcement that was not doing its job in the way that they were treating george floyd, you know, with a knee on his deck and it really is remarkable, i guess, just how many folks were able to bear witness, because this is something that lasted for nearly ten minutes, that exchange and mary and shaquille both make a really good point about the number of foclks who were reluctant, but really felt compelled to get involved. you heard christopher martin talking about his guilt.
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you heard darnella frazier, the 17-year-old girl, who filmed the video, without which we probably would not even be at the point of being at this trial, saying she apologizes nightly to george floyd and wishes that she could have done more than what she did. you also saw, you know, that final witness, who was saying, you know, he felt compelled to make the video, but also was filming in spite of the fact that he was scared or worried that he might be attracting police attention for himself and he really wasn't trying to do that. and christopher martin saying that he deleted that video because he didn't want to attract undue attention. he didn't want to get his mother involved so, you know, these folks, despite being reluctant, still felt camompelled to come forwar because they felt like they were seeing something happening that was wrong. >> you know, errin, i would like you to address something wider here i think this testimony is also serving as a reminder of just how traumatic these events are
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for members -- for eyewitnesss, for members of the community people we don't necessarily realize are traumatized by what's happening in their community. we're all watching and seeing it here, but i'm thinking, you know, this has happened thousands of times in this country, and there's all sorts of -- look at the collateral damage that's possible during these incidents. i think about the 9-year-old girl >> oh, absolutely, chuck and i mean, there is an element of the collective trauma for this country, but certainly, the people that are in closest proximity to these instances, whether they are ever found to be critical or not, the collective trauma that 17-year-old girl, her 9-year-old cousin who was there, you know, although her testimony was brief, you could tell that this is still a vivid memory for that 9-year-old, a year later and yeah, you cannot help but wonder you know, what the long-term impact of witnessing
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something like that will be for her and what the resources, frankly will be for her and for many children who have seen that video or who witnessed this in person, kind of, you know, what they do with that going forward. >> i'm just struck by how many times these witnesses have said, we were watching a man die that's not something -- that's not something you can get over quickly and it's a reminder of just how traumatizing this is. and danny cevallos, i do think -- i'm curious what you think the defense team is doing here it seems like after they realized how badly they may have damaged themselves yesterday when they attempted a cross-examine of one of these eyewitnesss, they do seem to realize there's not a lot of good that comes out from contrcross examining some of these folks. >> that's right. sometimes as a defense attorney, there are some witnesses that are going to do damage and
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there's nothing you can do about it sometimes there are witnesses that are going to hurt you and there's nothing you can do about it and especially these witnesses, who have, as you said, been traumatized by what they saw they are in a sense victims, as well and i think the prosecution is doing is a good job demonstrating that these folks have been victimized by this violence in, obviously, to a lesser degree than george floyd, but they have suffered too you see chris martin with his hands on the back of his head, just stressed out watching this happen, and that's exactly the kind of the prosecution wants to show but the defense finally today may have had a tiny, tiny crack. and that is some evidence that george floyd was under the influence. it will center prominently in their defense of causeuaation. >> and i know we're anticipating the trial coming back and what's next, and obviously, we know that there's only a limited amount of eyewitnesss that they
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plan to go through and we get to expert testimony do we have an idea of what kind of experts they're going to be bringing on? >> we do and we learned from the opening statements that the prosecution in terms of -- the prosecution will be bringing the police chief, for example, to talk about the excessive use of force. they say -- the police chief will say that derek chauvin used excessive force. there are some sergeants that will come up and testify but, chuck, if i may, you mentioned the escalation in this and how did it get to the point that george floyd was on the ground i will say, after watching several minutes of body camera video, at least two different body cameras, more is to come. there are several angles that we haven't seen yet and this cup food surveillance video was new. there are angles of the body camera video if their first interaction with george floyd, when they tapped the driver's side window with the gun and it almost starlets george floyd and you see him get out of the
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car and you see things calm down a little bit and they go over and try to put him in the backseat of another car, and that's when he's saying he's claustrophobic and doesn't want to get in, and there's a struggle between the officers and mr. floyd, before he then is taken out of the car or falls out of the car and is on the ground there under the knee of derek chauvin. the bottom line is, the point that we should remember is, there is much more video to come, there is much more testimony to come. this is a long exchange that he had with officers. and we'll learn a lot more about it, i assume, over the course of this trial >> well, that's right. and we already saw footage that we've never seen before today. and i would imagine, as we point out, there's probably more footage that we have yet to see that will add more to the story. thank you all for getting us started. we'll pick up coverage of the trial when the trial comes back from its lunch break pm meanwhile, in a few minutes, we are expecting president biden
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to leave for pittsburgh. he's going to be officially in pluck laying out a $2.5 trillion infrastructure plan, a tax increase to pay for it, mostly business taxes, likely setting up a showdown on capitol hill. senior white house adviser cedric richmond will join me up ahead. plus, pfizer now says its vaccine is 100% effective in young teens. but cases and hospitalizations are continuing to rise, again. speak with a vaccine expert, next on beach day. -i'm down. -yes, please. [ chuckles ] don't get me wrong, i love my rv, but insuring it is such a hassle. same with my boat. the insurance bills are through the roof. -[ sighs ] -be cool. i wish i could group my insurance stuff. -[ coughs ] bundle. -the house, the car, the rv. like a cluster. an insurance cluster. -woosah. -[ chuckles ] -i doubt that exists. -it's a bundle! it's a bundle, and it saves you money! hi. i'm flo from progressive, and i couldn't help but overhear... super fun beach day, everybody. sales are down from last quarter and i couldn't help but overhear... but we are hoping things will pick up by q3. yeah...uh... doug?
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move your xfinity services without breaking a sweat. xfinity makes moving easy. go online to transfer your services in about a minute. get started today. welcome back big news on the vaccine front today as pfizer announces it starts to vaccine teens by the start of the school year this fall pfizer says data shows their vaccine is 100% effective in kids age 12 to 15. of about 2,200 participants in their study, there were no cases of covid among kids that receive the vaccine and 18 among participants who receive the placebo. right now, more than 20% of
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adults in the united states are fully vaccinated, including nearly half of those over the age of 65, but nationally, cases are on the rise. and the cdc just released data showing covid-19 was the third leading cause of death in this country, only behind heart disease and cancer joining me now, dr. peter hotez at the baylor college of minnesota. and dr. hotez, let's start with that good news about young teenagers and this vaccine what does this going forward how quickly can we get everyone vaccinated are we looking at a pre-school year, and what about below 12th? >> yeah, so this looks really good 100% protection, as you point out 18 cases in the placebo group. none in the vaccinated group now, it was not a big study, chuck. it was around 1,200 individuals in both -- in each, the placebo group and the vaccinate group, but i think it's enough to
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either modify the emergency use authorization to go down to adolescents or possibly when they apply for a full licenseture, the biologics license application. but what it means is, assuming that the vaccine supply is there, assume that pfizer applies for emergency use and adolescents or full licenseture, that we could start vaccinating adolescents possibly by this summer, and have them fully vaccinate by the school year and what that means is when you go to a medical school or a high school, that means all of the kids will be vaccinated, teachers and staff, and that's really exciting, because it means it will be completely safe in terms of covid-19 >> and we'll discuss whether the issue of mandating that public schoolchildren get vaccinate will be an interesting conversation on this, going forward. but i'm not going to draw you into a political conversation. let me ask you bigger picture here first of all, what about children under 12.
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what do you anticipate -- when we get to a point where they could or should get a vaccine. >> i think that's going to be a little slower. i don't see a path by which that happens before next year, and the reason is this we know that little kids, especially 5 to 9-year-olds, are peak incidents of this terrible covid syndrome known as misc, we use terrible acronyms, but multiinflammatory syndrome in children it seems to be related to an immune response in covid-19. and the reason i bring that up is when we start doing vaccine trials, i think we'll probably move slower to make certain that the vaccine doesn't make things worse, that it doesn't exacerbate it. i don't think it will, but i think that will slow us down a little bit so i think we may have the data to support vaccinating little kids later on in the year, so maybe by next year, but it's not going to go as fast as the
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adolescents, and then we've got to make decisions on how far down we go in terms of age groups because, remember, we're also vaccinating pregnant women now, which is a good thing because of the high rate that pregnant women do not do well with covid-19, high rates of hospitalizations, and icu admissions, but it means that pregnant women will pass their antibodies on to the newborn babies, so the newborn baby is protected. then you've got to figure out what the window is for those antibiotics to wear off and when you can vaccinate. so for instance, we do measles at year one at life rather than sooner because of those antibody issues all of those things these consideration. >> what's your hypothesis on how long inoculation is going to last with these vaccines >> well, i would not be surprised if we wind up giving a third dose of the moderna or pfizer mrna vaccines and a second dose of the j&j vaccine either towards later on this year or next year and that will do a few things. it will raise up antibody levels, expand durability of
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protection, length of protection, and that boost may be especially configured for the south african and brazilian variants, which are not here in a big way, but give us a pause for concern. my hope is that by that point, we may be done in the sense that we will not have to necessarily give a new booster every year, but it depends on a lot of things, but that would be one scenario that plays out. a third dose of the mrna, a second of the j&j and that may be it for a while. >> curious your reaction to the w.h.o report yesterday and what would, if you could go to wuhan what would you want to study to find out the origins of this >> first of all, chuck, i'm not sure that i would want to go to wuhan. there are some reports that this was started in hubei province outside of wuhan there's a great paper that didn't get a lot of attention that came out of the university
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of san diego california several weeks suggesting that the virus may have emerged in october/november and how it was transmitted from animals, whether livestock were involved, we still don't understand that, and that's painstaking research to take blood samples from livestock, collect waste water. there's a lot of laboratory investigation that needs to be done, and it needs to be done from an outside group coming in. it's fine to work with chinese scientists, but not enough simply to talk there's actually some hard sloging to do, and as we sometimes call shoe leather epidemiology, that's going to take time to do and we need an international team to do that. >> can it be done without china's cooperation? or are we basically going to have to wait 30 years ala chernobyl to find out the truth? >> being the optimist i am, working on vaccines, i like to think the chinese have a vested interest in cooperating. remember, this is now the second
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disastrous coronavirus epidemic that they've faced that's led to international spread they had sars in 2003, so there's -- you know, i used to do a lot of work in china, we kept a lab in shanghai and when you go out into the province, you see this perfect mixing bowl of people and ducks and chickens and pigs and all sorts of animals and that's why we see things like avian flu and other flu viruses like coronavirus emerge so we need to get our arms around this. it's in the enlightened self-interest of the chinese to do this as well. >> enlightened self-interest we'll see if that will take hold peter hotez from baylor, dr. hotez, as always, thank you, sir. next, republican matt gaetz, part of a sex trafficking investigation, that the congressman is claiming is somehow part of a multi-million dollar extortion plot. all of this is what apparently happened overnight we'll have more after the break.
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welcome back florida republican congressman matt gaetz is reportedly under investigation by the justice department over whether he had a sexual relationship with a 17-year-old girl "the new york times" was first to report the news last night. nbc has since confirmed that part of the story. law enforcement officials say that the doj is investigating whether gaetz violated federal sex trafficking laws, which make
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it illegal to induce someone under 18 to travel across state lines to engage in sex for money or something of value. gaetz is denying the allegations somewhat specifically, releasing a statement that said in part, quote, no part of the allegations against me are true and the people pushing these lies are targets of the ongoing extortion investigation. now, gaetz also accused others of plotting against him in an interview last night on fox news >> what is happening is an extortion of me and my family involving a former department of justice official a person demanded $25 million in exchange for making horrible sex trafficking allegations against me go away >> i want to emphasize that everything gaetz is alleging has not been confirmed by anybody other than matt gaetz is making these allegations. the department of justice has not commented on this
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investigation. so joining me now with more on is our own investigative reporter, tom winter tom, i want to emphasize this. what do we know and then there are these, some might say outlandish allegations from matt gaetz. has anything he said been verified by a third party? >> we have not gotten that corroboration ourselves. the best i can say about what matt gaetz is saying is that it is being investigated in a walled off kind of a third investigation, so there's three components to this, chuck. the first component of it was an investigation, and arrests that were made last year, with respect to a local florida politician, who's the seminole county tax collector his name is joel micah greenberg. he was arrested something totally unrelated to all of this you're looking at a mug shot of him there. and i'll get to the reason of why we have a mug shot of him shortly. but the investigation into him involved some political stalking that he was involved with, some allegations very, very local and
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expanded into allegations and an indictment into identity fraud basically using people's discarded or handed over licenses at the dmv to come up with his own false identifications, according to the indictment and then there was a super -- a second superceding indictment that said that he was involved with sex trafficking specifically, it said that he obtained information from the florida state dmv database, searching ing for records relag to individuals with whom he had, quote, sugar daddy relationships with, and he's also charged with sex trafficking. out of that joel greenberg investigation, law enforcement officials tell us that that's when they began looking into gaetz -- whether or not he was involved in sex trafficking, and you outlaid before, chuck, what that actually means. so we've got three sort of investigations going here. the third one being the one that gaetz talked about on fox news last night in that clip that you played the attorney that he's accusin of this doj official, former,
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it's not as if he was working there last week. steven mcgee, he's an attorney in florida's panhandle he says this is absolutely false. he's not involved in any sort of extortion scheme at all, and he should note that he did receive a letter of investigation from his fbi director in the late 1980s and received rewards from the justice department before he left the justice department. this is not someone who's just a recent departure from the justice department we'll just have to see where all of this goes, chuck. >> there's some missing points here and matt gaetz has given axios, "the new york times," and fox different versions and different statements they're related, but they don't all necessarily overlap
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complete coming up next, joe biden is getting ready to roll out a massive plan cedric richmond will join me just had ♪♪ necessary. nerls. ♪♪ tex-mex. tex-mex. ♪♪ termites. go back up! hang on! i am hanging on. don't mess up your deck with tex-mex. terminix. hi. the only way to nix it is to terminix it.
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welcome back in just a couple of hours from now, president biden is set to unveil what they say is the first part of a massive infrastructure plan in pittsburgh republicans and some moderate democrats are balking a bit at what they say is the high price tag, a little over $2 trillion while other democrats on the progressive side of things are arguing this package doesn't go far enough this is what the plan includes at least $621 billion for transportation infrastructure. that is what you would call your roads, your bridges, your ports, public transit, and rail tl there's also money in there for broadband, power infrastructure, and money for schools, workforce development, and elder care. and the white house the proposing raising the corporate tax rate from 21% to 28%, which is still lower than what it was before president trump's tax
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reform package, basically he dropped it from 35% to 21, so this is splitting the difference 28% was all the number of democrats were calling for back when the negotiations were going on and they also plan to clamp down on corporations that try to hide income and duck from the irs and eliminate subsidies for the fossil fuel industry infrastructure is popular, but raising taxes is often a harder sell so, we will see how president biden sells the second-major spending bill of his administration later today nbc news colleague monica alba is already in pittsburgh ahead of the president's remarks so monica, in some ways, they're not afraid to say they're going to pay for this, because they know if you tie tax increases to infrastructure, the public claims they're okay with it. but i always say, what shows up at a poll and what happens in a campaign are two different things but how hard are they going to lean into that aspect of it? or is this just about building roads and they're not going to worry about paying for it, at least for public consumption
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>> well, i think, chuck, what you're going to see the white house and the president do here is pretty similar to what they did with their covid relief bill, which is at the outset, they're going to talk about wanting to get bipartisan support for things that out in the public are incredibly popular. you're going to see them make that pitch and get into specifics today, because the president is going to say, rebuilding america's roads and rails and airports is something that is really something that people can get behind. across the aisle, it's a different matter entirely, though, when we're talking about the lawmakers who have to get behind it, to make it a reality. so you're going to see the president here saying that there should be bipartisanship support in the country, but, of course, we know, there are, there is gop opposition to anything that raises taxes you had minority leader mitch mcconnell saying he spoke to president biden yesterday and expressed his concerns about the ballooning deficit, but this is really a white house that's going to make target that this is investment of more than $2
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trillion over the next eight years is critical, not just to continuing to jump start the economy, as we're hopefully rounding the corner finally on the coronavirus pandemic, but also, these are projects that needed to be fixed, that couldn't be done, this president feels he's uniquely positioned to do it, but the time frame, chuck, as you know, is incredibly tight. they're hoping to get this done legislatively by the fourth of july, which is really an uphill battle on capitol hill >> that is an aggressive timeline for sure, monica alba, on the ground. joining me now is someone who knows both sides of pennsylvania avenue, cedric thompson. i want to start with your arizona roots. sorry about the rain out there could congressman richmond get congressman scalise and other house republicans on board for
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an infrastructure plan, or are we too polarized for the deals of yesteryear like that? >> there are some republicans that would vote against mother's day if it was our idea however, we do think that there are many republicans who understand the need for investment in infrastructure and the need to go big and so specifically, chuck, to answer your questions about louisiana, i think that the representatives and legislators in louisiana know very well we need to invest in our ports, they know we need to invest in our roads and our bridges, they know we need to invest in our levies if you just look at the water treatment plan, in jackson they didn't have water for over a month. we need to invest in it. americans deserve better we should not have the 13th best infrastructure in the world when we're the greatest country in the world, and i think americans understand that.
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>> when you were in congress, you probably subscribed to the idea that, yeah, white houses can propose legislation all they want, congress writes the bills. so you guys have made a pretty detailed proposition here. do you expect congress to mostly fo follow -- congressional democrats, that is -- follow the plan here? >> the american rescue plan, we needed to pass it immediately because we needed to save lives and help people coping with covid-19 here we are sending our idea up for what we want to invest in, and i think most people agree with that. and then we're sending up an idea of how to pay for it. look, so members of congress have two choices they can either say they don't want to invest in the infrastructure, or they can come up with their own way to pay for it, and we're open to that
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so we want to engage with members of congress to make sure that this once in a century bill that we're proposing that we get it right and we're open to members of congress if they decide another way to pay for it or if they decide they don't want to pay for it, but we think it should be paid for and we laid out how we could do that >> you know, it is a sort of change when you have a democratic administration not shying away from the idea of tax hikes. there would be all sorts of ways previous democratic administrations, at least in my adult lifetime and yours, there would be this shying away from it you're not here. why is that? >> because, one, president biden ran on this, that he was going to make the tax code fair so that the burden would be shifted off of everyday working families funding everything in government
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and our investment and let the corporation pay their fair share. look, i was in congress for ten years before the tax change in 2017 corporations came to me all the time and said they wanted to lower the tax code not one corporation said that they wanted to go to 21% and so we went down to 21%, and it's hampering our ability to invest in our infrastructure, our american people, our american families, and so yes, we're not shy about saying that we think corporations should pay their fair share for us to invest in infrastructure, american competitiveness, so we can compete with china and continue to beat the rest of the world, which they're going to benefit from so because they're going to reap the benefits of this, we think that they should also bear some of the burden of paying for it >> where is the administration on the so-called s.a.l.t. deductions when it comes to state taxes, we know a lot of democrats don't like what the trump tax code did
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which essentially added to the burden of certainly higher end taxpayers in those states with state income tax they would like to restore those s.a.l.t. reductions. some even threatened not to work with the administration if they're not restored is the biden administration comfortable with restoring those, because mostly they help the wealthy. >> we're working with congress, and this will be a two-part process. this piece of legislation deals with the carpet tax rates, and that's how we'll pay for this. the next piece of legislation will deal with taxes also, but we'll also deal with investing in american families instead of infrastructure we're willing to sit down with our democratic friends and our republican friends to talk about issues that are important to them, both taxes and how we make the investment >> by the way, and you guys, this is two parts to this infrastructure plan, and you brought up part 2 which you guys
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plan to unveil later do you expect these to be passed together or separately >> how congress does it we'll leave up to their judgment, but we're introducing them they're all important, equally important, and this is just the order we're doing it one, we hope we come together as a bipartisan congress to pass it 80% of republicans in this country want to invest in infrastructure, so what we'd like to do is see them both move and we'd like to see them pass quickly because we have to, again, make america more competitive than what we've been, invest in manufacturing and research and development so we can create jobs, and invest in job training, and i didn't want to leave out the care economy, which is also important. >> i understand that >> we think all of these things need to be done soon it's an important investment for our future, and the order in which it is done is not as important as making sure it gets done and gets done quickly
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>> all right, cedric richmond, senior advisor to president biden, former member of congress, always a pleasure to get your perspective thank you, sir >> thank you for having me thank you all for being with us this hour we'll be back tomorrow with more "meet the press daily" with nbc coverage as soon as the break is over we'll continue with my friend katy tur right after this break. we kept going. working with our customers to enable the kind of technology that can guide an astronaut back to safety. and help make a hospital come to you, instead of you going to it. so when it comes to your business, you know we'll stop at nothing.
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good afternoon, i'm katy tur. as we come on the air, another dramatic day in that courtroom in minneapolis the murder trial of derek chauvin expected to resume shortly. we will bring it to you live once it does the main witness so far today has been christopher martin who worked in the store when the chain of events that day began, the prosecution playing some of the last moments of george floyd's life store surveillance video


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