tv MSNBC Live With Yasmin Vossoughian MSNBC February 7, 2021 1:00pm-2:00pm PST
impeachment trial of donald trump. it begins in two days this the senate a. trial that will focus on whether the former president incited an insurrection against the government n. a few moments i am going to break down the case against donald trump with a power house panel, the four women of the new podcast hashtag sisters in law. first, what will happen, what is at stake, and how did we get here? the 100 united states senators will decide this case. 67 are needed for a conviction that means if all democrats vote for conviction, they need 17 republicans to join them, which may seem daunting, but that's before a single piece of evidence has been presented. there are certainly some key republican senators to watch, the ones who have already suggested they may be open to conviction. but others who are either retiring or have a good deal of time before they actually face voters again. and of course there is always the wild card, senator mitch
mcconnell. >> you go into the impeachment trial still having an open mind about the president -- >> look, i want to listen to the arguments. i think that's what we ought to do. >> so the case the house managers will present is pretty simple, and it is pretty straightforward as well. a single article of impeachment. that's basically accusing donald trump of inciting insurrection saying, quote, he's singularly responsible for january 6th capitol hill riots. the evidence, president trump's own words on the day of the riot, and in the months leading up to it. >> this election was fraud. this -- it was a rigged election. i hate to say it, but this was a rigged -- at the highest level, it was a rigged election. they cheat asked they rigged our presidential election but we will still win it. if the liberal democrats sake the senate and the white house -- and they are not taking
this white house, we are going the fight like hell. >> we won this election and we won it boy a landslide. we are going to have somebody in there that should not be in there and our country will be destroyed. and we are not going to stand for that. >> all right. trump's words aren't the only ones they are relying on, though. they have the rioters themselves, a lot of them, who were pretty clear in some of the videos that we have been seeing who exactly sent them to the capitol. >> we were invited here. >>. [ indiscernible ] >> we are invited by the president of the united -- >> there is a [ bleep ] million of us out there and we are listening to trump. >> what is your message to everybody right now. what are you yelling? >> donald trump asked everybody to go home. he just put out a tweet. it is a minute long. he asked everybody to go home. >> the boss sent us. we were invited here by the president. then he asked us to go home and
so we went home. what is the president's response to all of this? a heavy dose of it is too late with a heavy dose of what aboutism. this weekend, the president's lawyer suggest he is going to put the spotlight on the democrats trying to compare the words and actions surrounding this summer's overwhelmingly peaceful black lives matter rallies to what happened at the capitol. >> will you then respond with the maxine waters, other democrat officials not speaking out against the antifa and other extremist rallies over the last summer? >> i think you can count on that. if my eyes look red to the viewers it is because i have been looking at a lot of video the last several days. >> all right. so then there is the issue of witnesses. we know donald trump won't be appearing, refusing an offer from house managers. not surprising there.
but we don't know if senators will allow any others. it is an idea trump's most stalwart support remembers clearly against. >> if we open up that can of worms, we will want the fbi to come in to tell us how people actually preplanned these attacks and what happened with the security footprint of the capitol. you open up pandora's box if you call one witness. i hope we don't call any and hope we get this trial over next week when it starts. >> with that, i want to begin by digging into the case against donald trump with the promised power house panel. joining us the coe hosts of the podcast sisters in law. probably the best podcast name ever. barbara mcquaid, jill wine-banks, former assistant watergate special prosecutor, former general counsel of the army and an msnbc contributor.
and kimberly atkins. "boston globe" columnist and msnbc contributor who was a trial attorney. wow, guys. there is no panel i would rather sit down with ahead of a second impeachment for our former president than this panel in front of me. i am thankful for you for spending this afternoon with me. barb ration i want to start with you on this one and talk first and foremost about this incredible new podcast with an amazing name. coincidentally starting ahead of this impeachment trial. >> thanks. you know, the four of us have gotten the know each other through our work as contributors on msnbc. joyce and i work together in the justice department. had we try to do in the podcast is help educate the public. i think we see that as part of our mission as educators, provide education, but we want to do it in a fun and imaginable
way. imagine you are having a cup of coffee with us, talking about the law and the news and trying to help people make sense of it into any day of the week. any day of the week. joyce, let's talk about this trial that's beginning on tuesday. and i want to read a tear from the house manager's pretrial brief. president trump's conduct must be declared unacceptable, in the clearest and most unequivocal terms. this is not partisan matter. his action has directly threatened the very foundation on which all other political debates and disagreements unfold. looking at the case joyce put forth in the pretrial brief by the managers who do you see here as their main argument going into tuesday? >> when they make that statement yasmin what they arel really saying is this case matters beyond just the fate of former president trump. at issue for him is whether or not he can be disqualified from holding office in the future arc
relatively important matter given that no sitting president has ever engaged in inciting an insurrection before and it would be wise to keep him out of office. but there is also precedential value moving forward f. this is not impeachable, it is difficult to imagine anything would be. and permitting trump to do this in the name of preserving unity or whatever other arguments the republicans intend the put forward whether its the crazy jurisdictional argument that you can't hold a trial once the president has left office -- that would really weaken the presidency and also weaken the balance of power among the branches of government going forward in a way that would fundamentally alter our democracy. >> jill, joyce brought up a really good point here, and something i wanted to get to later on in the conferring but let's talk about it now since joyce brought it up. that is if this conduct is not impeachable, then what is? and is this a conversation after
this trial? right? is there a conversation that needs to be had about the act of impeachment if, in fact, donald trump is acquitted in the senate? >> yes, there would have to be a conversation. and i want to point out, i think there are two parts of this case. there is the incitement, but there is also dereliction of duty, the failure to protect the members of congress and his own vice president when he had the power to stop this. first of all, he didn't have to say go and march to the capito and stop the vote. he was definitely trying to interfere with the conclusion of our election and the transfer of power. so that was his goal. but he was derelict in his duties of not stopping what was going on. he should have been more forceful and taken control of
it. if this isn't -- as joyce said, if this isn't impeachable, i can't imagine what conduct would be. >> as you were speaking, jill, we brought up some of the list of high crimes and misdemeanors stated in the pretrial brief. let's bring that up again. jill, talk us through quickly here, which do you think are the strongest arguments? we have the president violating his oath of office, attacking the democratic process, imperilled congress, undermined national security. and there is no defense for president trump's conduct. >> every single one of them is important and is clearly proven ible -- provable by evidence. the democratic process and the transfer of power is probably the most important and encapsulates all of those others bus he did it by urging on a violent mob to go to the capitol and stop members of congress. and they went in there yelling
"hang pence", where is nancy pelosi? we are going to get that word that i cannot say on air. and these are very dangerous things. then you have members of congress who were part of enraging the crowd and urging them on. and congress isn't safe. our democracy isn't safe unless we take action on this. and there is no defense. the last point is clearly true. the constitutional argument being raised is silly. the logical arguments are so fallacious, i cannot believe it. they have no merit. the history of the constitution shows that a former president can be held accountable, especially when he was impeached while he was president. you can't say, well, if you do something bad in the last month of your office, too bad, you have run out the clock. he ran out the clock on the the emodel you meant clause. this was wrong. maybe we need legislation to fix
that. and this would be wrong, too. >> kimberly, let's talk a little bit here about witnesses and a call of witnesses. we know the senate democrats' approach to this is going to be way different than it was in the quid pro quo call in the first impeachment trial in the first go around, that's because and what is going to be fascinating for me to watch and i think for all of us to watch is the fact in a the witnesses are the people that are trying this impeachment trial itself. it is the senators. it is the congress people. it is the government itself. it is the people that witnessed this. it is all of us that watched it or experienced it in person, on television. how is that going to change the dynamics of this trial? >> yes. i mean, recall that will the last impeachment, while i thought it was pretty clear and straightforward, it involved another country. it involved a phone call that we didn't get a full transcript of. there was a lot of stuff that had to be explained to people.
so you needed to bring in these experts and witnesses and people who were there to understand the tick tock of what actually happened and why it mattered. here it played out in real time on live television for all of america to see. they could see what the president said and could see what transpired afterwards. and for weeks afterwards, people inviting americans to washington telling them to come. it was going to be wild. this is going to be more straightforward and the impeachment managers themselves are witnesses. as they lay out their cases they will essentially be giving testimony of what happened. all 100 of the senators who are there are also witnesses who will be sitting as jurors. people who had to shelter in place, people who feared for their lives at times. and knowing that the vice president as well was in danger of all of this. it is a fundamentally different
thing. it is much more straightforward and clear, so the witnesses aren't necessary. and also, i think we have already been waiting now for -- it has been more than a month since this happened. i think the managers want to move forward quickly with this and not have this last for weeks. put forward the case. put it to the senators, and get a vote. >> i want to play some sound of alexander ocasio-cortez recounting the trauma of the experience at the capitol on january 6th. let's watch that. >> some are already demanding that we move on, or worse, attempting to minimize, discredit, or belittle the accounts of survivors. in doing so, they not only further harm those who were there that day and provide cover for those responsible, but they also send a tremendously damaging message to survivors of
trauma all across this country. >> we have heard, barbara, alexandria ocasio-cortez's testimony. she sheered at that lobe's testimony, jeffries' testimony. testimony from listeny graham, the very first person who says he doesn't want witnesses called to the senate trial when he himself could be a witness, as i was just talking about. who do you expect, if in fact witnesses are called, to be called? >> i certainly don't know who will be called. but if i were planning out a witness list i would put on some of the people who experienced trauma that day. maybe not the members of congress themselves, but perhaps staffers or police officers who found themselves as the last line of defense between rioters and people they are sworn to protect. you know there has been very compelling video evidence of some of the heroic deeds by some of those police officers. i would like to hear about some of the trauma they endured. or perhaps staffers of nancy
pelosi who were hiding under a table while rioters were in the office next door pounding on the doors. i think that would be compelling evidence. also i want the add it is not going just about what was going on at the capitol that day. that is an important part of the story. it all comes down to president trump, what he did and what he believed was reasonably likely to occur. i would be playing video and audio of some of his prior statements like when he said i could shoot someone on fifth avenue and not lose any support. he knew how likely people would be to try to stop the steal and march down to the capitol. i would play his sustained efforts to undermine democracy. i think that is evidence of his violation of duty the take care that laws are properly executed. >> joyce, what do you say to americans who say this whole thing is political? what i mean by that none of these jurors in the senate are going into this thing with an
open mind, with a clear mind, having experienced it firsthand and knowing where they stand politically and what they stand to lose. >> it is, i think, very discouraging to see republicans like liz cheney who have taken a stand for what they believe is right here send sewered by their own party because the fundamental problem we are experiencing is that this has become a moment when people are supposed to go line up with their teams as opposed to do what's right. so it is difficult for the american people to decide whether this is serious or whether, et cetera just more political shenanigans it really falls to members of the republican matter who coddled this president for four years, who permitted his excesses, who tolerated unconstitutional activity at the margins because it helped them keep power. it's now up to them to take a stand. i think, yasmin, that that's the
open question here. will we see republicans, whether it is in numbers enough to obtain a conviction and permanently disqualify this president -- will they stand up and explain to the american people that insurrection can never be tolerated, that this president broke his oath and broke faith with the american people? >> joyce advance, barbara mcgad, jill wine-banks, kimberly atkins. thank you. stay with us. all of these ladies will be with me later in hour as well. coming up, more coverage of the impeachment of donald trump. >> if abuse of power is not impeachable even though it is clear the founding fathers found it to be the highest of high crimes and demeanors. if it were not impeachable, then a president would be beyond reach. >> unacceptable conduct would be
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been breached for over 200 years since the war of 1812, that is until last week, when it wasn't another country that attacked us, but our own president. president donald trump asked his supporters to march on the capitol, inciting domestic terrorism that cost five lives, kluge a capitol police officer. >> so that was democratic representative mark pocan expressing his support for trump's impeachment saying trump incited the capitol attack while he was the one person who should have been protecting american democracy the most. joining me now, mark pocan. congressman, thank you for joining us on this. really appreciate it. i want to read for folks the tweet that you sent out from two weeks ago in which you said this. the case is simple. donald trump incited an insurrection on the u.s. congress. we all were there. the senate must convict him, and he should never hold public
office again. for democrats in the house that voted in favor of impeaching the president, what are they expecting from the senate trial? >> well, we are hoping they will have open minds going into it. although, obviously a procedural vote leading into this showedis maybe that's not going to be -- showed us maybe that's hot going to be the case. but if you ever had a i had woulder example of why you needed to impeach a president in open sedition bringing your supporters to washington, d.c. on january 6th and telling them to march on the capitol is certain something deserving of impeachment and ruling out of his ability to run for office again. none of this would have happened if it weren't for donald trump telling people to come to washington, d.c. and inciting them. this should be a pretty easy
case in that everyone who is going to make the decision was there that day. they were part of the evidence that's there. so i am hoping the senate does the right thing. >> there is this moment where jackie spear, congresswoman jackie speier recounts her experiences in the storming of the capitol. she says, i quote, i was thinking, can this be happening? am i going to die in my own country in the sacred capitol of democracy when i survived in the jungles of guyana? you and your colleagues experienced the storming of the capitol. all of you in the building worried about our safety thinking about your families back home and not knowing what was going on outside. do you hope colleague, members of coming, will be called to the trial as witnesses? >> again, i think every single
senator is in many ways a witness to what happened. whether they have additional voices from the house or not, i think our impeachment managers will certainly be those voices. but i certainly hope they remember what it was like on january 6th. what they went through. mike pence -- people were trying to kill mike pence and speaker nancy pelosi. it is not that long ago. if they are going to do the right thing they certainly have to act and impeach the president. >> i want to talk about this, i got into a little bit of this with joyce vance in our last conversation, and jill wine-banks. and this is the idea of using impeachment as a weapon. i only bring this up to say now this will be a twice-impeached president and this has become a very divisive political atmosphere, and it's become very tit for tat. whoever is in the right and whoever is in the wrong. are you worried at all that republicans are going to turn around and use impeachment
against your own candidates when it's not deserved? because what have has taken place over the last four years? >> what i worry about the most honestly is that we don't impeach him and don't send a message. this really isn't about donald trump. this is about the office of the presidency of the united states. do we respect the office and everyone who has been in there up to donald trump to treat it in a different way, to treat our country above their own personal hopes and profits? unfortunately, donald trump set a very low bar in the last four years. but you know, to actually call your supporters to the capitol. to have them do a run on the u.s. capitol, it hasn't happened since the war of 1812 when it was another country. instead it was the president doing this. that is unprecedented. to do nothing would be a serious mistake and i think we would be sending all sorts of bad messages if we didn't have some accountability for what happened.
>> again, it begs the question i think we are going to be talking about a lot over the next couple of days, which is, if impeachment doesn't happen for this, then for what? congressman, thank you. coming up, how donald trump's lawyers plan to handle his defense. >> the bottom line is, the impeachment articles, i think, are unconstitutional because the president is in florida. he's not in office. >> he's not president anymore. impeachment is reserved for sitting presidents. >> by the way, lindsey graham, the same guy who after the insurrection said, i am done with this guy, donald trump, that is, and then was golfing with him a couple days later. republican senators graham and rubio making the argument against the constitutionality of having a trial at all. can that argument hold up? i will be joined by legendary constitutional law expert laurence tribe next. don't go anywhere.
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they took a phone call that was a totally appropriate paul. i call it a perfect call, because it was. and they brought me to the final stages of impeachment. but now we have that gorgeous word -- i never thought a word would sound so good. it's called total acquittal. total acquittal. >> seems like yesterday, doesn't it? donald trump at his first impeachment trial one year and two days ago. now democrats are strategizing for a different outcome to trump's historic second trial that begins in two days' time. we go to palm beach, where the former president has been since leaving washington with more on the defense strategy.
talk us through the defense strategy so far that we are hearing from the former president's team. >> so many remarkable differences between this upcoming impeachment trial and the last one, yasmin. if you think about just the setting, the fact that obviously donald trump then was the sitting president, that's really going to be a cornerstone of his defense team's arguments, saying that they will argue that it is unconstitutional to try to convict a former president who is obviously no longer in office. but when we also make these comparisons and think back to a year ago, you had donald trump, who was able to offer a lot of counter-programming to his own trial. he was on the trail. he was doing campaign rallies. he was obviously holding events at white house. a much different picture now that he is living here in south florida as a private citizen spending most of his time on the golf course. without his preferred social media platforms. it is unclear how or if we will hear from him. we know he is not going to be
doing any sworn testimony or a written letter. but his lawyers are also pointing to a bit of a new strategy talking about how they are going to make this case that the former president's comments, then while he was in office, to encourage his supporters to quote fight like hell might be protected under first amendment rights. and they are also going to make this argument about last summer when you saw social unrest after the death of george floyd. and they are going the use democrats' own words against them, these lawyers say, in talking about promoting people to go out and express certain first amendment rights. that sets up an interesting dynamic. in terms of what republicans are expecting, yasmin, there are very few who have come out and said they believe this is really an impeachable evans and they would vote to convict him. instead you are hearing more of what we heard this morning from pat toomey who is retiring after
this year and not planning to run for re-election. listen to what he had to say. >> i think it is very unlikely. you did have 45 republican senators vote to suggest that they didn't think it was appropriate to conduct a trial. so he can infer how likely it is that those folks will vote to convict. i disagreed with their assessment. i think it is constitutional. i think it's clearly constitutional to conduct a senate trial with respect to an impeachment. my job is going to be to listen to both sides of this, evaluate the arguments, and make a decision. >> yasmin, what we don't know remains the most interesting at this point. we have no idea how long this trial will go. we don't know whether other witnesses will be called perhaps. and we also don't have a good sense necessarily of how long it may stretch if it is cut short in the first week which is what the president's defense team is asking for in honor of the sabbath friday evening into
saturday. and chuck schumer already gred to that we may see a shorter first week and it could extend into a-second week. a lot is up in the areas mean just hours before this trial is set to again. >> thank you monica. way on the to bring in laurence tribe. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. want to talk through some of the arguments and the case that monica kind of laid out for us and what the defense will be here for the president. the three things that i heard her say was basically freedom of speech, the fact that he is no longer a sitting president, number two, and comparing to the george floyd protests over the summer or the protests that followed the killing of george floyd. i want to lead with this idea that he is no longer a sitting president. lindsey graham bringing up it is not constitutional to try
someone who is no longer a sitting president on impeachment. what do you make of this argument? >> almost every expert agrees that that argument is completely wrong. it is wrong for the most fundamental reason. he was the president when he committed an impeachable offense. he was the president when he was impeached. he ran out the clock. because he was impeached on the 13th of january, and because mcconnell would not bring the senate back, there was no time to complete a trial. but if we have a january exception, what that means is that any president who refuses to take no for an answer, who refuses to accept the legitimacy of a defeat both this the popular vote and in the electoral vote and then storm the capitol, kill people -- if he succeeds, he remains in office. if he fails, he can be punished
in any way, he can't be disqualified from future office holding. that january exception would mean that the country would really come to an end in terms of the constitutional republic. remember, when he was acquitted last time, he said that gave him license to do whatever he wanted. and that's exactly what he did. he violently attacked the capitol of the united states. he threatened assassination of the speaker of the house. he riled people up. he aimed a cannon fundamentally at the capitol. if that is not a basis for removal, then nothing is. if his having run out the clock means that the constitutionally explicit provision for permanently disqualifying such a tyrant from ever again holding
office would become null and void. that's not the law. it's not the history of the united states. it's not the language of the constitution. so that defense is completely bogus. >> you can't help but wonder where, you know, folks like susan collins are going to land on this vote considering -- >> -- about ms. collins. >> when you think about the words of susan collins in the first trial when she said i believe this president has learned his lesson and then you fast forward a year and where we are now. >> he obviously didn't but the lesson we would teach to all future presidents is if you don't like the verdict of the people, just storm the capitol, rile people up to commit murder, and you're home free. i mean, that can't be what the framers of our constitution created. they didn't create a suicide pact. that's not what the constitution
is. >> what do you think about this defense of freedom of speech, and then also the comparison to the protests, the largely peaceful protests following the killing of george floyd over the summer? >> i think it is a bogus argument as well. the fact is that this is not even like yelling fire in a crowded theater. this is like the fire chief setting fire to a crowded theater and then watching while it burns. the power of individual citizens, their right to express an opinion, has nothing do with the president of the united states. he takes an oath to uphold the constitution, protect and defend the united states of america. imagine if a president, having taken the oath, then put down the bible and said, by the way, i didn't mean a word of it. i'm going to never leave office. that's a statement of free
and -- a free and open statement. but it is not something a president can do and get away with it. the freedom of speech is a freedom that belongs to ordinary citizens. the president is special. and when he stands behind the seal of the president of the united states and urges people to take over the capitol and overrun it, which is what this guy did, he can't hide behind the freedom of speech. that really cheapens the whole idea of what the idea of free speech is all about? laurence tribe, thank you, as always. appreciate it. we'll be right back with more of our special coverage. ore of our special coverage at should w? (man) road trip. (woman) yes. (woman) off-road trip. (man) how hot is the diablo chili? (waitress) well, you've got to sign a waiver. [loud laughter] (woman) is this even a road? (man) yeah. (woman) so what should we do second? (vo) the subaru forester. the most adventurous forester ever.
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i'm barbara walters with jim hots. >> good morning. >> good morning, jim. we will have full details on this momentous story in just a moment. a story that many us are still having believing actually occurred. >> the house will go ahead with a impeachment inquiry into bill clinton's conduct. the vote was historic but not surprising. >> donald trump has just been impeached. tonight he shares a place in political infamy with two other presidents brushed with the stachb impeachment. >> the house has impeached donald trump for the second time, for the first time with republicans. ten republicans crossing the aisle to vote for impeachment including the number three republican, liz cheney. >> welcome back. some coverage there of our past impeachments and near impeachment, shall we say, in this country's history. there have been four impeachments of president inside the past, first, andrew jackson.
nixon in 1974. bill clinton, 1998, acquitted by the senate. then donald trump, impeached at the end of 2019. acquitted in january of 2020. and now the fourth, donald trump, impeached again in 2021. the question is how is this one going to end? we may know the an by this time next week. key word there, may. coming up, the sisters of the sisters in law podcast join me and give me their predictions on how exactly this trial is going to go. we'll be right back. k. what do we want for dinner? burger... i want a sugar cookie... wait... i want a bucket of chicken... i want... ♪♪ it's the easiest because it's the cheesiest.
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>> he will not testify at his impeachment trial next week, and i think i speak for all of us when i say come on, please. give us one last show, man. you know, stop feeling sorry for yourself. put in your extensions, and burst into that trial like it's maury povich and you are not the father. >> so of course, that was "snl" and their take on donald trump's refusal of an invitation to testify at this impeachment trial. but i do want to get final thoughts on what exactly to watch for when the trial gets under way on tuesday. want to bring back my panel of experts. joyce, barbara, and kimberly. they're cohosts of the new podcast, #sistersinlaw, and what a time to have you on the show. i want to do a round robin as we wrap this special up and we
prepare for this impeachment trial to begin. joyce, on your expectations for the days ahead in this impeachment. >> so my expectation is that it will come down to whether the senate remembers the moment that they lived through on january 6th or whether the passage of time permis them to insulate themselves. that's what i'm looking for, that emotional impact. >> barbara. >> i think one of the key pieces of evidence i'll be looking for is what president trump was doing during the time that the insurrection was occurring. if he's to say i had no idea that my words would have that effect on people, there are reports he was gleeful when he saw tv reports of what was happening and he waited two hours before asking them to go home. so i want to see what he was saying, what he was doing during that time because i think that's really key to what his intent was. >> do you think, barbara, we're going to get evidence of those actions?
that we'll have real evidence of what exactly the president was doing? >> i think it would require calling witnesses, and so if we can do that, we have media reports already, but if we could have live testimony of people from what he said and what he did, and certainly we know that there was a passage of two hours just by the time of the delay before his public statements came out. so we know we have that evidence. >> jill, barbara bringing up the conversation about witnesses and looking ahead as per your expectations of witnesses. you can't help but think about the vice president who was there for the beginning of the insurrection and was whisked out of the capitol for his own safety. within a minute or so between when he left the room to when rioters stormed the same area in which he stood. >> and where he would have been saved only by a capitol police officer who led the rioters away
from where he was. i think he would be a very powerful witness about the danger that he faced and how he felt in the moment. i would love to see live witnesses to remind the senators of how they felt at the time. they have seen the videos enough that they may get dull to it, and not feel the same pressure as they will when they hear live witnesses. i would also like to see witnesses about the january 5th meeting with organizers and about the money that went from trump or some of his organizations to the organizers of the rally. i think there's a lot that can be learned, and i expect that at least 60% of americans are going to say, guilty, at the end of this trial. they will see the facts. they will see the evidence, and hopefully, they will lobby their republican senators to go with the facts. >> kimberly, jill brings up this
idea of money. it's an important one, especially when you think about this article from "the washington post" that kim out today talking about $500 million and counting that the insurrection has cost the taxpayer. how do you think that bill is going to play if at all into this trial? >> yeah, when i saw that story, the first thing i thought is i wonder if the impeachment managers would use that as another exhibit, as just to how costly this insurrection was. that's not even to speak of the lives that were lost on that day. but the thing that i am looking to this week is not just the legal case being laid out but the political one. if you recall donald trump and those who supported him during the mueller investigation got everyone to rally around this political message of no collusion. that wasn't an actual legal message. it was a political one. during the first impeachment, it was no quid pro quo, even though
it played no role in the impeachment issue itself. now, it's this constitutional idea that a president can't be impeached after office, which is also wrong. so i think they're looking for a political out. and then it will be up to the voters to decide how those lawmakers are held to count. >> joyce vance, barbara mcquade, jill wine banks, kimberly atkins, thank you for sticking around and thank you for your podcast. again, if you haven't listened, you should take a listen. to hae more from their legal minds, tune in to their podcast #sistersinlaw, out on apple, spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. that wraps up the hour for me. the special look at the second impeachment trial of donald trump. i'm yazman vossoughian. "politics nation" with reverend al sharpton is up next after a quick break.
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