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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  January 4, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PST

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enthusiastically being supported and that's what we're seeing right now. >> the one group of people that seem to be staying motivated are black voters. wish we had more time. that is tonight's reid out. thank you all for joining us. all in with chris hayes starts now. tonight on "all in" trump goes down to georgia looking for an election to steal. >> so what are we going to do here, folk ss? i only need 11,000 votes. >> 16 days from the inauguration of president biden and president trump won't let go. >> we won three times here. >> tonight calls for a criminal investigation of the president, seditious activity of a lame duck loser and a caucus of republicans ready to hold a gun to the head of american
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democracy. >> then control of the senate at stake tomorrow in georgia. is the president helping or hurting? >> this is what i don't fully understand. no one is changing parts or pieces out of dominion voting machines. i don't even know what that means. >> squaz truand as trump fiddle virus rages. >> there's 30 million vaccines sitting on a shelf right now. we're way behind. >> dr. anthony fauci will be my guest when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. a happy new year to you. a day after the release of what is probably the most -- i think definitely the most damning presidential phone call of all-time, the fall out over a president caught actively plotting sedition continues to grow at this hour. two house democrats are now asking the fbi to open a criminal probe into donald trump. i'll speak to one of them in
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just a few minutes. the fulton county district attorney released a statement saying, quote, like many americans i've found the news reports with the president's telephone call with the georgia secretary of state disturbing. anyone who commits a felony violation of georgia law in my jurisdiction will be held accountable. this afternoon the republican official in charge of georgia's voting system did a live point by point fact check of trump's preposterous claims about voting in that state. >> again, this is all easily provably false. yet the president persists. and by doing so, undermines georgian's faith in the election system, especially republican georgians in this case which is important because we have a big election coming up tomorrow and everybody deserve tuesday have their vote counted if they want it to do be. >> that republican official works in the secretary of state's office, he's gotten death threats simply for
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standing up to the president and doing his job along with other people in that office. president-elect joe biden was also in georgia today campaigning for those two democratic senate candidates ahead of tomorrow's runoff election, which will determine the control of the u.s. senate. and biden lit into trump for trying to take what is not his. >> politicians cannot assert, take, or seize power. power is given, granted by the american people alone. and we can never give that up. it's always -- always the will of the people that must prevail. >> i mean, that's basically what democracy is about, right? people choose the people in power, not the people in power are getting to choose for themselves whether they stay in power. that simple. it was always clear donald trump has nothing but contempt for democracy and the rule of law and peaceful transition of
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power. it's been clear since he entered the political stage. we've known for a very long time he was for instance addicted to conspiracy theories and a liar who brings out the absolute worst in those around him. but here we are with the president of the united states asking a state official to find him the votes he needs to stay in power. >> so look, all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. because we won the state, and flipping the state is a great testament to our country. >> this already infamous phone call to georgia's republican secretary of state is one whole hour long. and in it the president is actively repeatedly attempting sedition. he is in the phone call plotting, conspiring against the democratically elected government of the united states which will take office in two weeks. he's seeking to overthrow it in
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advance. he also seemed to imply amidst all sorts of weird parts of that phone call, he seemed to imply he had another way to stay ippower he didn't want to use because the vote margin. >> but we don't need it because we're only down 11,000 votes. so we don't even need it. i personally think they're corrupt as hell, but we don't need that because all we have to do is find 11,000 plus votes. so we don't need that. i'm not looking to shake-up the whole world. >> okay, i'm not looking to shake-up the whole world, whatever that means. trump has been openly vocally plotting this attempt to destroy american democracy from before the election happened and in the hours after and in the weeks since. in fact, it's the only thing he's been focused on even though in los angeles, for example, hospital morgues are so full that the national guard is being
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called in to help county workers as corpses are moved into storage. they use the national guard to sort through the dead bodies piling up in l.a. county. and even though we were pushing 4,000 deaths a day at the end of the deadliest day in american history, even though we are careening towards 400,000 dead americans with a vaccination program that is 18 million doses behind where it should be, and the country is in tatters, this is it. this is all he cares about. it is all he has cared about. we learned today georgia's secretary of state spoke to trump after the white house switchboard had made 18 attempts to have him speak with trump over the general election. that's persistence. that's focus. i mean, say what you will about the guy his attention span does seem short, but when he's focused on something, he made 18 calls to georgia's secretary of state before he finally got through, and at hours sounding
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cagey and crafty and completely insane, basically instructing the secretary of state to change the results of a democratic election or face criminal prosecution. and as a "the new york times" peter baker points out, this is not some secret scheme. he's been doing it in front of all us. he's been calling the republican governors of georgia and arizona to get them to intervene. he called the republican speaker of the pennsylvania house twice to do the same. now, perhaps most outrageous in all this, trump has plenty of republicans supporting him. all of them committed to the principle, the united states isn't a democracy and does not get to elect a president who is not donald trump. as of right now 13 republicans in the senate, dozens more in the house have said they will oppose certifying joe biden as the next president. amidst this, the only defense of trump we have heard from anyone really this far is it's also the only defense of his phone call that led to impeachment, right?
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another corrupt phone call is that it hasn't worked yet. but incompetence is no defense at all. today two democrats in congress ted lou of california kathleen rice of new york wrote to the fbi calling for an investigation into trump's call with the georgia secretary of state. and one of them, congressman ted lou, joins me now. congressman, why'd you write the letter? do you think this is criminal? >> absolutely. if you look at what donald trump did for approximately an hour he threatened and berated the georgia secretary of state to commit election fraud. that is illegal under federal and state law. the code says you cannot knowingly and willingly essentially attempt election fraud. that's what he did. and under georgia state law you cannot solicit election fraud. so it's very clear to me these were illegal acts. >> what is the feeling among you and your colleagues about what to do about this? to my mind i don't know if it is
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a technical criminal violation, though i think there's obviously a colorable case there is. but if this isn't criminal in some deeper sense, then nothing is. the president is plotting the overthrow of the rightfully elected government of the united states. what is your duty in the house, house democrats to do here? >> so the house has three types of actions. we could certainly try impeaching him again because i think this is also impeachable conduct, but the purpose of impeachment is to remove the president and the american people already decided to fire him. we can also make a criminal referral which is what congresswoman kathleen rice and i did to the fbi. or you can do something like censure, which is to record the disapproval of the treasonous behavior of their president and that's something congress is exploring. >> hakeem jeffries, your colleague, i think fifth ranking member of leadership, this is what he had to say.
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i want to get your reaction to it with respect to donald trump and what to do about his behavior. take a listen. >> with respect to what has currently taken place, i have not viewed the transcript. we're not looking backward. we're looking forward to the inauguration of joe biden on january 20th. >> i understand and am sympathetic to that attitude and i think you don't want to make more of what he's doing. and also democrats have a big legislative agenda they'd like to pursue. but if there's not penalty for this behavior which will continue and intensify i think in the coming weeks, what does that mean for the future of the american democratic project? >> you're absolutely right, chris. that's one reason congresswoman rice and i did that letter because donald trump is still the president for the next 16 days. he's delusional, potentially quite dangerous. he needs to know there are potential consequences to his illegal behavior. and if he knows that law enforcement is going to look into it or if there's referrals
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for law enforcement to look into it, it might mitigate his behavior. and at the end of the day, no one's above the law, not the president and not any former president. >> congressman, thank you for making time tonight. appreciate it. michael bromwhich was one of three courtroom lawyers back during the iran contra scandal, inspector general. as a lawyer and a lawyer quite familiar with the workings of the government, what's your assessment of what we hear on that phone call? >> you have a president who wants one thing and one thing only and that is to be declared the winner of the presidential election. he's come up with the states he needs to target in order to do that. and he is perfectly willing to take whatever steps are
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necessary in order to get that result. he has a single minded determination to do that. he doesn't care what furniture he breaks along the way including our democratic institution. >> when i listen to the call and i read the transcript and went back through it. i kept having the thought of if this is not criminal in some sense, then what could possibly be? i mean, nothing is more fundamental, right, to a democracy. the people choose their leaders and the leaders don't get a veto if they get turfed out. like, that's basically like the one sentence twitter version of what a functioning democracy looks like. and if you're trying to subvert that, it seems to me you're doing something criminal in some profound sense whether or not you violate federal statute. >> well, you're certainly doing something morally wrong and contemptable. and i do think his conduct in the call does make out a sear
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aetz series of federal crimes. if they take this on, which i think they clearly should, they shouldn't stop at the phone call. they should extend their investigation to other things he's done with respect to officials in georgia and public officials in all of the other states he's contesting. we would be naive beyond belief if we thought this was the only time that he tried to pressure state officials whether they're secretaries of state or attorneys general or state le e legislators. i think it's very important we have an investigation and it be broad-based and that would involve talking to a wide array of elected officials in
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important states. >> they said as much that lindsey graham had essentially solicited a similar kind of thing, can you throw out votes, to protect themselves and to protect the conversation of the call they recorded it. there's a point in this conversation he says we think we're going to be able to flip other states. he knows that. there's already an arrow being drawn to the president himself to similar kind of conspiratorial conversations. >> that's exactly right. >> you have a lot of experience as a government lawyer in trying to sort of hold power to account. and i just wonder, like, is there any analog in your career for what this is? i keep trying to search for the right word, right characterization or some comparative touchstone in some other country or maybe something that happened at a city level, in a very corrupt city machine or county machine or state.
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have you ever been amidst something like this? >> short answer is, no, i've never seen corruption on this scale on any level. where you have in this case the chief executive of a country engaging in all manners of illegal activity to accomplish his goals, in this case winning the presidential election. i think i lived through watergate. i was in college at the time, and i think nixon was a piker compared to donald trump. what he did was awful. he deserved to leave office. but if you compare just phone calls some of the watergate tapes with this phone call, there's no comparison. and if you look at the full range of conduct that richard nixon engaged in, it doesn't hold a candle to what donald trump has engaged. so, no, i don't think i've ever seen anything like it. i'm not aware of anything like it in our history, and i haven't heard anybody suggest anything any worse than what we're seeing
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now. >> thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us. for more on the unfolding assault on democracy haze brown is a writer and editor and michelle goldberg, latest piece titled "to defend democracy investigate trump" which i heartily agree with. and on that note, michelle, look, as with everything this was true of russia if you're listening when he said that into the microphone. it was true of hunter biden when the call becomes public and he just says into the microphone, yeah, you know. he's been doing this in front of us, but one thing i think is an important detail here is it's not an act and not performance. to the extent anyone had reported this was for the benefit of his followers to show he's fighting, he is trying to stay in office past january 20. >> yes, absolutely. i mean, he's kind of trying to solicit or extort or what word
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you want to use, criminal conduct. and i think all the arguments for not investigating and not prosecuting donald trump on their own makes sense, right? the argument that you can't impeach him or there's no point in impeachic him less than three weeks before the end of his term, joe biden's a.g. is going to want to move on, congress issing going to have their hands full repairing the damage donald trump is leaving in his wake. all these arguments that there's arguments that prosecutors might have a hard time making a case precisely because i think i call it in my piece there's almost this psychopath defense, like donald trump is not capable of telling right from wrong. and so he's not capable of understanding that the things he's saying are not true and that the arguments that he's making -- and he's not capable of lying because he's not capable of understanding that he's lying. all these things make sense individually, but at some point if you don't punish cheating,
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you encourage more of it, right? republicans i think used to understand this when it comes to petty crime. but we need a broken windows theory of creeping authoritarianism, that if you just let this go over and over and over again especially when you have a party that kind of views all democratic victory as as suspect or illegitimate, you're encouraging this kind of behavior. and eventually you devolve frump an imperfect democracy towards what political scientists call competitive authoritarianism, which is you have elections. you have the appearance of a democracy, but the underlying system is so tilted that real competition becomes impossible and one party's power just becomes more and more entrenched. >> one up side here and i'm searching for silver linings in an impossibly bleak moment, but
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i do think it's the case there's been a theory and approach by many republicans of waiting him out, let him talk himself out the way you would a child having a tantrum. and there's an infamous quote from an anonymous source from the post. trump is going to force a reckoning or recording one way or another which side are you on, and i think that's an actually an important thing for the republican party to have to be called on. >> i agree with that but here's the problem with that. republicans think a lot of its members and base are stupid. they think their party can't really look into what's going on with donald trump and what the actual situation is. and the fact they in congress cannot overturn the electoral college, that's something you just can't do. but we have people like senators josh hawley and ted cruz who are
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smart men, they know better. but they're thanking on the fact the people whose votes they count on don't understand the way government works. they're going to be recorded being in support of trump, period, and that's all that's going to matter in the historical context. i'm really am like fingers crossed something happens from this historical record we're going to get from them, but they're really laying it all on the line and saying, look, we want our voters to know we back trump even though we can't do this thing we say we're going to do. >> what's fascinating about the phone call and gabriel sterling where he did that point by point where there's a self-serving will to power or what you would describe as a psychotic delusion. it's unclear where one begins and one ends. or do they think no power other
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than theirs is illegitimate. and you could hear the person on the other line being like is this guy nuts? what they believe is there is no legitimate power other than them. >> and there's a certain pathos i know in sterling trying to refuse these as if he could go down point by point and make people see that the things donald trump are saying kind of make no sense and are it delusional, as if you can kind of counter this sort of authoritarian miasma with fact checking, and you just can't. because i think something that's fundamental to trumpism but not only to trumpism, to many different kinds of authoritarianism is that truth is what the leader says it is.
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>> that's why this point about accountability and michelle's column, whether it's prosecution i don't know. again, there has to be some -- and this is true of covid as well -- there has to be some collective, comprehensive documenting of what has happened, what has transpired both in frontf us and behind the scenes before anyone talks about moving onch. >> no, i completely agree with that especially considering the fact we've tried that route before throughout trump's presidency. we've tried, oh, well, that's behind us, let's move on now. the only difference between trump's call is his leverage, the stakes he has to leverage over them. that's all it is. if georgia needed trump to give them defense against russia that would be different. we might be having an entirely different conversation. because we have a system that thankfully so far has held him
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back -- so when the senate said it's fine, your call was perfect, we're going to let you go on being president, donald trump, they were giving him the green light to do exactly what we've seen here. and what the house prosecutors basically said would happen. >> it is the worst version of the zelenskiy call with somehow higher stakes happening domestically to disenfranchise voters. ahead, the republican senators lining up to support the president's attempts to subvert the election, the sedition caucus after this. and later my interview with dr. fauci about how to ride the ship on the vaccine rollout. he joins me live so do not go anywhere. joins me live so do n anywhere metastatic breast cancer is relentless, but i'm relentless every day.
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tonight a growing number of republicans joining the sedition caucus, the grume oup of senato congress people more loyal to donald trump than to american democracy. for instance georgia senator kelly loeffler who was the latest to announce she'll object to the electoral college vote when congress meet on monday for the formal count joining at least 12 of her senate colleagues. at least 32 republican members of the house also said they will object. the vast majority of these lawmakers announced their intentions before we learned of new smoking gun evidence against the president, his extraordinary phone call to the georgia secretary of state pressuring him to overturn the election in trump's favor. kim kaine of virginia will be at
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that session in congress wednesday. and he joins me now. what is your reaction to watching individuals you serve with in a body together presumably devoted to some basic principles that people choose their leaders not the other way around, sign-on to this effort? >> well, chris, it's really disturbing that president trump would try to overthrow the result because he's lost and desperate isn't a surprise. but i am surprised and really shocked by these colleagues. they're supporting something that's dangerous, an attempted overthrow of the government. they're supporting something that's discriminatory, disinf n disenfranchising voters. supporting something that's spineless, most of them challenging other states votes when they know they won't be accountable to those states voters. they're doing something that's hypocritical during the impeachment -- most of these folks said we won't impeach because we want to let the
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people decide -- and now the people have decided they don't like what they've decided. so i'm shocked that these folks are willing to, you know, suck up to a would-be authoritarian to try to impress him or more importantly his followers. it's very discouraging. >> i don't think the most important thing here is the mental states and interior life of the individuals who have chosen to sign-on to this, but just for a moment i feel like the explanation you hear is this is pure political cowardice and like the mob, but it strikes me maybe they don't believe in democracy. there's one source of power which is a center right republican party and all other sources of power are illegitimate. and they'd prefer a country that lives under republican rule
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rather than a democracy that's traded. >> it's people like us, it's tribalism. i think one of the senators from kansas said my voters feel disenfranchised. what disenfranchisement was, when we made it illegal for people of color to vote, now that was disenfranchisement. disenfranchisement isn't you get out voted in all the other states, that you in a national popular vote you lose by 7 or 8 million votes. that just means you picked the loser, you picked the wrong guy. but they're taking on themselves this kind of victim mentality because they just feel like america should be governed by people like them. and when there's going to be this big diverse electorate that might produce a leader unlike them, it makes them feel like, wow, we've been wronged when
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they haven't been wronged at all. that's what democracy is. >> that's a have good note about disenfranchisement. ben sasse has been calling out his colleagues for this. tom cotton interestingly, basically his argument and the argument of representative nassy in the house is look, guys, the electoral college is the best thing we have going for us because we can't win popular votes. if you start messing with electoral college you're getting rid of the way for us to win the presidency. democrats could achieve their long-standing goal of eliminating the electoral college in effect by refusing to count the votes in the future for a president-elect. basically we have to save this anti-democratic system and you guys are blowing it up. >> chris, that's a fantastic argument because really what these guys are doing is attacking the electoral college. they don't like the electoral
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college, and what they're proposing instead is the super elitist argument. if we don't like the way you voted, congress will decide. democrats are saying, you know, we don't like the electoral college either but rather than the elitist argument of letting congress decide, why not let the national popular vote decide? let's agree with you there should be reform. you want 535 people to decide. we want 300 plus million people to decide. >> senator tim kaine of virginia who will be there on wednesday which will be a very strange day in this nation's history and we'll be covering it closely. thank you so much. >> absolutely. coming up, election eve in georgia with a record breaking 3 million ballots already cast, the most expensive race probably in history. whether it's enough for democrats to flip the senate after this. ugh for democrats to flip the senate after this and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults.
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the people of georgia are angry. the people of the country are angry, and there's nothing wrong
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with saying that, you know -- that you've recalculated. >> well, mr. president, the challenge that you have is the data you have is wrong. >> a day after president trump was caught on tape trying to get georgia's secretary of state just to overturn the presidential election, recalculate to put trump ahead by one vote, trump is in georgia tonight holing a rally for tonight's senate runoff election. president-elect biden was in the state as control of the senate is at stake. by all accounts it is going to be a very close race in georgia. early voting once again a huge factor. more than 3 million ballots have already been cast shattering the state's record for runoff election. executive director and ceo of the new georgia project, a nonpartisan group and she joins me now. it's great to have you on the program. i guess, first, what have the last few weeks been like? how do you see this right now in
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this very strange, very high stakes situation with all eyes on your state? >> so the last two weeks have been a lot of conversations on the doors. we just knocked on our 2 millionth door. we made 5 million phone calls, 3 million text messages, sent out tons of postcard, tons of mail and it's in the middle of a pandemic and over the holiday season. so the president is right. i will concede this point that georgians are angry, but they're angry because we have a president that has told us to drink bleach. we've had a governor that has lied about what he knew about covid-19 despite the fact that everyone knows that the governor's mansion is 3 miles away from the cdc headquarters. the secretary of state and a number of early voting days that has cut the number of early voting locations, that cuts the number of drop boxes and that has sent out a notice that he plans to prosecute organizations
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like ours who want to provide water and pizza and hand warmers to voters who have to wait in long lines. and so he's absolutely right, georgians are angry, and so there's been some energy over the past two weeks, quite frankly over the past two months. there is clarity now about how important the vote is, how important black voters are, how important young voters are to the outcome of georgia's elections. there's clarity now that we are a legitimate, a proper battleground state where if every party, every candidate has to fight for every vote. there are forgone conclusions who's going to win based off historical turnout numbers. >> it's such an important point. this is wakeup call for all concerned. the polling has this race very close, and i think the assumption has been like we
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don't know, polls are all over the place, but if you look at georgia it's going to be close. everything points to it being close. it was close last time around, close in the presidential. you just mentioned the secretary of state and i do want to ask you about him. obviously he's gotten i think justified plaudits for standing up to the president's corrupt attempt to overthrow the election, bt you just listed a bunch of things he's done visa vi your organization including warning of handle out bottles of water and what do you think of the administration runoff thus far? >> listen, what i think is that we are going to have to make sure there's overwhelming participation in our elections to ensure that the will of the people is reflected in the results of these elections. listen, i heard the tape as well. i haven't listened to the full one hour tape. we've been a little busy,
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forgive me. i heard the 5-minute clip and i also read that the secretary of state had no intentions of releasing the audio from the phone call unless he was attacked by the president, right? and so in his self-interest he released this tape to the public. and so what i will say is that we are going to continue to chop wood and carry water and again make sure that we have overwhelming turnout so that there's no doubt what the will of the people is. >> the new georgia project which has been doing a lot of work for a very long time now squarely in the spotlight of the nation's politics. thanks so much for making time tonight. >> thank you, chris. coming up, dr. anthony fauci is here to explain why the vaccine rollout is going slower than expected. what it will take to return to some semblance of normalcy. please god. you don't want to miss it. f nory please god you don't want to miss it. (announcer) do you want to reduce stress?
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20 million is the number looming over america's coronavirus crisis. over the weekend we surpassed that number of confirmed covid cases in this country. 20 million is also the number the trump administration set as a benchmark for vaccinations by the end of 2020, and we are short of that by a lot. remember at the start of december operation warp speed announced it would distribute enough vaccine to immunize 20 million people by january 1st. only 4.5 million have received their first dose according to the cdc. as long lines form you're seeing the similar dynamic we saw with testing, the president blaming the states, the federal government has no role to play in actually solving the problem and getting shots into arms. there's no time to waste. the case numbers are spiking, a record 278,000 new cases on
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saturday alone. and now we've got a more contagious strain of the virus taking hold in the u.s. a strain that prompted the british prime minister today to impose a new national lock down in england. in other words, we have to get our act together very, very fast. i'm going to talk the person many americans trust above anyone else, the truth about where we are and what we have to do. dr. anthony fauci joins me right after this. do dr. anthony fauci joins me right after this nicorette knows, quitting smoking is freaking hard.
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race, a race between the new more contagious strain of the coronavirus first identified in the uk and the vaccine, the multiple vaccines that have been approved for use. right now we are losing that race. with me now, dr. anthony fauci, head of the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases, who has in a lot of ways over the last several months felt like the nation asset conscious over f the last several months. it's always a pleasure to have
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you,lw dr. fauci. maybe let's start with vaccination. we are behind. we are -- there are other countries doing a worse job than us, i should stipulate, but a place like israel doing a much better why is it going so slowly? what's going wrong? >> 'swell, actually we don't kn really, precisely why, chris. if you look at the allocation versus what's shipped, what's distributed, but the bottom line is what's getting into people's arms. so we wereto supposed to get 20 million doses that were distributed. we have about 14 million of those. so we're a little bit short on that. hopefully we'll catch up with that in the next few days. but the real question is we have about four-plus million in the arms of people. we've got to get that up. we've got to get the pace up. we're not where we want to be. there's no doubt about it. no excuses. hopefully that is a reflection of trying to start a very big program that is complicated as well as having done right in the middle of a holiday season where
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you don't have all the cylinders going at the same time. i think we should wait and take a look at the next week or so. if we get back on pace good, if not, we've got to start looking at what the reason for that is and how we're f going to correc it. >> so there seems like two different things happening here. one i want to focus on is in the sort of first tier, right? so we had the prioritization issued by the cdc, and i think that first tier made a lot of sense. health care workers and then folks that work in long-term care facilities, including people that live there. >> right. >> ohio governor mike dewine said that 60% of nursing home workers declined the vaccine, and i've heard similar -- somewhat similar things from some other people i am in regulare contact with reportin. i guess the first question is are we seeing a lack of shots in arms among that first tier because of just voluntary refusal for people to take the vaccine? do we know that? >> we don't know for sure, chris, but ior don't think so. ink mean there is vaccine
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hesitancy in people who are turning it down, but i think just the logistics of getting it going into the people who want it is really the issue. ily don't think we can blame it all on vaccine hesitancy. i think that might explain a part of m it, but that can't be the excuse for it. so we've got to do better in just logistically and mechanically gettingog it goingo get it in people's arms. that's where the lesionop is. we've got to correct that. >> then there's a sort of policy question, right, which is, you know, it seems increasingly i'm seeing peoplenc say this, and i wondering if you would agree, right? more shots in arms faster in the wrong order is better than fewer shots in arms in the right order, which is to say prioritization is important, but prioritization shouldn't be an obstacle to getting people v vaccinated. and i wonder if you think that's part of the logjam here, which is too much focus on the right order and not enough focus on just come get a vaccine.
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>> you make a good point. if you can't get it into the arms of people who are in the high priority, go to the next group. and that's what people are doing. the one thing you don't want, chris, and you don't want the vaccine sitting in a refrigerator or sitting on a shelf. you got to get it into people. i believe if we do it correctly, we can get it into people in the priority that's been designated by thete cdc and their advisory committee. but you're absolutely right. if youre don't get it well that way, then go to the next best. >> what is the role of national coordination here? i mean itat does seem to me the division ofe labor here has be that the federal government ships and the federal government comesrn up with these prioritization, you know, through the advisory committee of the cdc and it sends them to the states, and the states have to distribute. i guess one question is, is that sufficient? do we need a i more coordinated federal response? is that something you've talked to theha incoming biden administration about, for instance? >> yes, we have, and we are
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talking about that, of having more of a liaison and a link between the federal effort, the federal plan, the federal resources that go to the state. theto feds can't do it alone, chris. no way. >>, yeah. >> but sometimes when you leave the states on their own, they really do need help. they need some more guidance. they need more resources. >> what is your anticipation of whether and how things change in 16 days and what the benchmarks will be for whether we are trending in the right direction or not? >> well, i think the issue that's on everybody's mind is the efficiency and the effectiveness of getting the vaccine rolled out. president-elect biden has made it very clear his goal is at least 100 million doses in the first 100 days, namely 1 million doses a day. we can do that, chris. i mean this is something that's doable.
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we've had historically things that we've done in the past as far back as 1947 when we had a big full-court press on getting people vaccinated for smallpox in v new york city. it can be done. you get everything in the right place, everybody cooperating, everybody collaborating, and we could do it. that's the main issue that we want to get done in those first 100 n days. >> yeah, the '47 example, i forget the numbers but it's remarkables to look at 1947 poo vaccination in new york. >> yeah, smallpox, chris. we vaccinated 6,350,000 people in two weeks in one city. >> wow. >> in one city, new york city. i was one of the people who was a 6-year-old boy who got vaccinated back then, and they did it. so if we can do it that way, we can do it now. >> the last time i had you on this program, i asked you, you know, when normal would return.
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of particular importance to me playing pickup basketball. members of my game are watching for this. you a basketball player for regis high school yourself, had said that the third quarter of thisr year, 2021, and definite into the fourth, you could play pickup basketball, you know, sweating in each other's faces. high sort of risk activity. is that still how you're thinking of the timeline? >> the answer, chris, is yes if we get the people vaccinated who can and should be vaccinated. i've said that in order to get what i would consider a good herd immunity, we don't know exactly the unnumber, but it's somewhere in the range between 70% and 85% of the people vaccinated. if we put the kind of pressure on the way we're talking now, getting that 1 million people per day vaccinated, by the time we get to the middle and end of the summer, we could have that
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veil, that envelope, that umbrella of herd immunity that could protect us. and then youot and i can get ou on a court and play some pickup basketballku because the level virus will be so low in the community that it won't pose a risk a to us. >> final question for you. how worried are you about this new strain, the uk announcing they're shutting down today. there's some data suggesting it isat considerably more transmissible. how serious should we take this? >> we take it quite seriously, chris. whenever you get a mutation that looks like it has a functional cor lat, and most mutations are meaningless. it doesn't have any effect on a function. this oneef appears to make the virus much more easily transmissible. once it becomes more easily as transmissible. you're going to get more cases. and when you get more cases, you're going to m get more hospitalizations and more deaths. so you know the numbers now.
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it's bad enough with what we're going through now. we don't need to get it worse. so the answer to your question, chris, we take it quite seriously. >> dr. anthony fauci, one of regis high school's greatest products, new york city's greatest products. thank you, dr. fauci. i appreciate it. >> thank you, chris. good to be with you. >> that is "all in" on this monday night. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> i am here right now to vote for what i want from television programming for 2021, and what i want is to listen to chris hayes talk to dr. anthony fauci in a way that doesn't thend. i could just -- you could just do that for five or six hours, and i wouldn't need to take a break. >> i -- he is really remarkable and i think, you know, his -- we are at such a switch point right now on this vaccine. the trajectories that lay out before ourt country are remarkable. you heard it from him. a lot depends, a lot of it. >>


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