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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  June 23, 2016 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT

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great to see you. >> you too. >> tonight on "all in" -- >> i think it is heartbreaking for the millions of immigrants who made their lives here, who have raised families here. >> a supreme court split delivers a major blow to undocumented families. raising the stakes even higher for november. >> i will build a great, great wall. >> and putting gop obstruction into sharp relief. >> republicans in congress currently are willfully preventing the supreme court from being fully staffed and functioning as our founders intended. >> after 25 hours democrats end their sit-in over gun laws. >> the fight is not over. >> the congresswoman who brought the bullet that nearly killed her joins me tonight. >> five bullets ripped through my body. i can't begin to tell you what that is like. >> plus, reaction from baltimore as a third police officer is not convicted in the death of freddie gray.
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as britain votes on leaving the eu, donald trump visits his golf course in scotland. how the leave campaign mirrors trump's own. >> my inclination would be go it alone, go back to where you came from. >> when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. today a 4-4 deadlock on the supreme court brought together one of the most intensely polarizing, contested and explosive issues in this election, immigration, with the stark effects of unprecedented levels of senate obstruction by republicans and cast into even higher relief the stakes of who will be the next president of the united states. u.s. supreme court today announced its deadlock in a case challenging president obama's executive action on millions of undocumented immigrants who are the parents of u.s. citizens or lawful permanent residents. the program called deferred action for parents of americans and lawful permanent residents,
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dapa, would have afforded those immigrants a process to apply for work permits as well as shield them from deportation. in much the same way president obama's deferred action for child arrivals did. that program daca was not affected by today's decision. leaving those undocumented immigrants now in total legal imlimbo. today president obama said the decision was heartbreaking and noted the 4-4 split pointed to the senate republicans' unprecedented refusal to even consider or hold hearings for his current nominee to the high court. >> this is part of the consequence of the republican failure so far to give a fair herring to mr. merritt garland, my nominee to the supreme court. leaving the broken system the way it is, that's not a solution.
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that's the real amnesty, pretending we can deport 11 million people or build a wall without spending tens of billions of dollars of taxpayer money is abetting what is really just factually incorrect. it's not going to work. it's not good for this country. it's a fantasy. now we've got a choice about who we're going to be as a country what we want to teach our kids, how we want to be represented in congress, and in the white house. >> only a tie-breaking vote in the supreme court or action by congress will resolve this. today's decision immediately became a huge campaign issue. hillary clinton's statement reading in part, today's deadlocked decision from the supreme court is unacceptable and shows us all just how high the stakes are in this election. decision's also a stark reminder of the harm donald trump would do to our families, our communities and our country. trump has pledged to appeal president obama's executive actions on his first day in office. donald trump released a
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statement which reads in part, clinton has pledged to expand obama's executive amnesty, hurting poor african-american and hispanic workers by giving away their jobs and federal resources to illegal immigrant labor while making us all less safe. in a series of tweets, trump made similar claims about the effects of immigration to this country which are unsupported by the facts. today's decision will likely sharpen divisions in a presidential campaign that as is of now shaping up to be something of a national identity crisis. joining me, thomas saenz, president general counsel of mexican american defense and legal fund who argued the case before the supreme court. i ant want to give the argument to the other side here and first, before i do that i want to get your reaction to today's decision. >> today's inaction by the court is certainly disappointing but it does point out serious flaws in the united states senate's dereliction of duty by failing to act on a nominee that was put before them fully one month
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before this case was argued, could certainly have been confirmed and in place to participate in the decision, but is not because the united states senate leadership has decided it can take one year off out of every four. >> you hang this on the republican senate obstruction of the president's nominee? >> it's quite clear that there are plenty to blame and to be held accountable for today's outcome. it begins with the failure to place a ninth justice on the court and that is laid squarely at the feet of the senate leadership, but it also includes the justices themselves, including those who voted on the side to uphold the fifth circuit decision, including some who have a clear record of recognizing how fatally flawed the state of texas' argument is for standing for its injury to allow to it even be in court on this case. but it also includes, of course, the congress for failing to act on immigration reform. >> i want to put aside the
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standing issue, although it's a fascinating one and a fairly profound one in my own humble opinion, i thought you had the better of that argument. but on this case of sort of the limbs, fundamentally, of what this sort of discretionary power is, isn't it the case the president himself, in repeated speeches after daca, basically said, i can't do any more, in fact, i believe there's a department of justice memo indicating the kind of actions that ended up being instant yated in dapa would extend past the power inherent to the executive to have discretion over who is and who is not prioritized for deportation. >> those preliminary conclusions by the president and his lawyers were plainly wrong. what the president did in his announcement in november 2014 of a dapa initiative was to act in the footsteps of his predecessors, including most notably ronald reagan, who previously through a family fairness program provided relief, or could have, would have provided relief to 40% of the undocumented population at the time. a smaller proportion than the dapa initiative would have
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covered if implemented. those preliminary conclusions were just that, preliminary. ultimately the president and his legal advisers concluded that he could act, and indeed needed to act, to ensure uniform application of enforcement priorities nationwide by announcing the dapa initiative. >> it strikes me that today a broken system got more broken in the sense that the legal limbo has now intensified. what is the resolution now? >> the resolution clearly lies with congress to act on immigration reform, but in the meantime, there are still steps that can be taken by the president, by his administration, to ensure greater uniform nationwide application of enforcement priorities. but it is also certainly true that there will be action in the courts. this was a decision about a preliminary injunction. it is an ongoing case. we in the united states government expect to continue in the courts to work to vindicate the president's authority to act consistent with what his
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predecessors have done previously. >> thomas saenz, thank you very much. laurel prelig, your reaction, this is an issue you've worked on r. family members i know have been subject to various executive actions, what's your reaction to today? >> chris, i am sad today, i am angry, and i'm optimistic. i think that today reminds me of a very similar feeling at the end of 2010 in december when we were in d.c. and dreamers flooded congress and we watched them vote in the house, went to the senate and lost. i think we were all overwhelmed with emotion and thought, for a second, that this was a step back, then realized that this makes our community stronger, that it's certainly devastating for the families today but that if there's one thing i know is that our community's resilient and we're going to wake up
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tomorrow and know we got to fight, we got to keep going on. so i'm also optimistic. >> what does that mean? fight and go on, it seems to me that you've got two avenues here. there is the fact that there is a nominee for the supreme court that is unconfirmed, and there is an election. and the starkness of the election on one hand, hillary clinton who said she would expand dapa which now seems like it's not going to happen, at least at this current deadlock. supports comprehensive immigration. whereas donald trump promises to build a wall and talks about deportation for 11 million undocumented immigrants. >> yes, i think i'm guided by two things that i know very clearly today, chris. one is that the movement is going to continue. that people are continuing to organize, that people are going to show and up vote in november. and they're going to continue to press this case to share their stories and to do what they've been doing, which has been leading the way in this immigration fight. whether it's executive action or comprehensive immigration reform
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or both. and then i also know that hillary clinton has committed herself and made a commitment to the community to do cir, to introduce it in the first 100 days, to continue to comprehend and implement daca and dapa. i don't think the life of dmt paa is over, i think we will continue to go on. so that's really what's motivating us today. >> is this election dund attally a referendum on immigration in some profound sense? >> i think that it's very clear. i've heard people say the stakes could not be higher, i think the stakes were always going to be high, and today's a reminder of that. but if the supreme court had come out and ruled in favor of dapa, we have a candidate on the other side that has promised to end it in his first 100 days. he's promised to roll back daca, to deport 11 million people via deportation force, and so yeah, i think that donald trump -- i said this to you last time, has launched a war on latino and immigrant communities across the america and we will do everything we have to do as a
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campaign and secretary clinton has been doing that, to engage the hispanic community, to make sure there isn't a voter who's eligible who is left unregistered in this election and that they turn out this november. >> do you think that the sense of the stakes and the possibility of what it will look like, were trump to be elected, is that a palpable, shared feeling among latino voters that you're interacting with? >> yeah, it's not just on immigration, chris, right? i think we feel that -- i feel that sense of urgency every day when i wake up. that we have to do our absolute best because the stakes could not be higher. and not gist for the immigrant community. i think when you have a candidate that's speaking about a judge because he's hispanic-american in the way that donald trump has, it reminds us that really, the message he's sending every day is that we're increase than because of our heritage. because of where we come from. because of what we look like in america. and that's not the country that we are. i stand with hillary clinton and
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we're going to continue to do everything that we can to bring our country together, because that's what makes us strong. and we're going to fight back and push back on this rhetoric that donald trump is continuing to use. >> all right, lorella, thank you for your time. still to come on a huge news day, brexit, the movement that's happening in england and the votes that are being tallied. we are watching results right now. ow that push to get england out of the european union sounds a lot like donald trump's campaign to make america great again. after democrats end their powerful 25-hour sit-in, did anything change in the fight over gun regulation? i'll talk with the congresswoman who was there and told her story of the five bullets that nearly killed her right after this two-minute break. ♪ ♪ you've wished upon it all year, and now it's finally here. the mercedes-benz summer event is back, with incredible offers on the mercedes-benz
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going to bring you that interview with the congresswoman in just a moment. in the meantime it has become something of a tradition for presidential candidates to travel abroad during the campaign. president obama did in 2008, addressing a crowd of 200,000 in
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berlin and making stops in the middle east, france, and britain. mitt romney tried something similar in 2012 but the trip was overshadowed by his chilly reception in london after ill-considered remarks about the olympics that city was about to host. now donald trump is about to embark on an international trip of his own but instead of meeting with world leaders or brushing up on foreign policy, he is traveling to scotland to check on his golf resorts there. on the agenda, a helicopter landing at one resort, trumpturnberry, followed by a ceremonial ribbon cutting and a press conference. this comes as trump is trying to turn the page on a disastrous couple of weeks and fellow republicans are questioning the purpose and timing of the trip. senator john thune told "morning consul," this sounds like more of a trip to associate with business interests, noting he hopes trump will get back on the campaign trail. political strategist for the u.s. chamber of congress told the "new york times," everyone knows this is the wrong thing
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for the nominee to be doing now, it is amazing this can't be stopped. but trump make at direct connection between his scottish ventures which faced years of opposition from neighbors and his presidential bet. writing in a column for a local scottish paper, scotland has left hand been won, so will the united states. when i make an analogy of the united states and scotland, there are parallels clear to me. passion, giving back, dedication, results! the results at his scottish resorts have fallen well short however. he claimed in 2008 the trump international golf links in aberdeen would employ 1,200 people, according "the guardian." it employs 95, many of whom are seasonal. "washington post" puts that number at 150, still far below trump's projection. though trump reported $4.2 million in income from the aberdeen course in a financial disclosure form last year, according to the "post" reports filed with the british
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government show the resort has lost $6.9 million since opening in 2012. neighbors of the resort recently hoisted a mexican flag right next to the golf course to show trump how much they dearly appreciate him. the gop's presumptive nominee will arrive the uk tomorrow morning just as brits are waking up to the results of today's absolutely historic and possibly earth-shattering referendum on whether england will leave the eu. what donald trump had to say about the brexit vote just ahead. thanks for the ride around norfolk! and i just wanted to say, geico is proud to have served the military for over 75 years! roger that. captain's waiting to give you a tour of the wisconsin now. could've parked a little bit closer... it's gonna be dark by the time i get there. geico®.
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proudly serving the military for over 75 years. house democrats' remarkable sit-in, demanding a vote on gun safety legislation, ended this
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afternoon after 25 hours. democrats leaving the house chamber promising to continue the fight when the house returns to regular order on july 5th. >> we're going to continue to push, to pull, to stand up, and if necessary, to sit down, sit down. so don't give up! don't give in! keep the faith! and keep your eyes on the prize! >> democrats spoke through the night last night broadcasting speeches on social media because the official house cameras were shut down. also dealing with occasional interruptions from irate republicans. >> radical islam! radical islam killed these people!
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>> why do you want to let terrorists buy a gun? >> around 3:00 a.m. republicans held unrelated votes then declared a long recess and left down. steve king tweeting, i've had it with the gun-groundballing democrats and their sit-in anti-second amendment jihad, i'm going to go home and buy a new gun. in the senate a test vote on a compromise gun bill from maine susan collins. it did not get the 60 votes needed to overcome a republican filibuster. giving mitch mcconnell cover not to hold another vote on another popular piece of legislation opposed by the n. ra. speaker paul ryan appears determined not to hold a vote, he cast the sit-in as a cynical political move. >> if this is not a political stunt why are they trying to raise money off of this?
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off of a tragedy. we watched a publicity stunt, a fund-raising stunt, descend an institution that many of us care a great deal about. yeah, i think it sets a very dangerous precedent. >> since the orlando massacre we've seen a shift in the gun debate from the focus on the rights of gun owners to the experiences and rights of people victimized by guns, some of whom are also members of congress. >> i lived in a house with a man that should not have had access to a gun. i know what it's like to see a gun pointed at you. and wonder if you were going to live. and i know what it's like to hide in a closet and pray to god, do not let anything happen to me. >> michigan democrat dibby dingell is not the only member to speak about her personal experience with gun violence. representative jackie speier brought to the floor one of the bullets that nearly killed her in 1978 when she was shot five times during a trip to guyana to
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investigate abuses at zones town. joining me is congresswoman jackie speier. i was affected quite a bit by what you had to say on the house floor last night. just about sort of centering the discussion on what a gun does to a person. >> what a gun does to a person who survives is devastating as well. whether it's the surgeries, i had over ten. the years of physical therapy. the emotional and physical scars that you endure and have to come to grips with the fact that you are different. and it is traumatic on every level. and every american has the right to feel safe in their schools, in their churches, in their movie theaters in their nightclubs. that's all we're trying to get to. >> the scene last night in the house was remarkable. i think unprecedented in its own way.
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there have been other sort of instances in which minority parties have tried to force votes through different kinds of political protesters theater. but i never really had seen anything like last night. where does this go now? it happened. now it's done, people go to recess. are we just going to be talking about other stuff six weeks from now? >> not as far as the democrats are concerned. this is a tipping point. the largest mass murder in the history of our country, 49 people dead in orlando, that's not a publicity stunt, those are deaths. families who are distraught, broken, who will never be the same again. so we're not letting go of this. this is an issue that deserves our attention and every member of this house should be in a position to vote. vote however you want, but give the american people the opportunity to know where you stand. that's what's wrong with our system in the house now. nothing of any importance comes
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before the house. whether it's the authorization of use of military force, immigration reform, or gun safety measures. >> what do you say to speaker ryan? you mentioned his comments i think in response to him about a publicity stunt. he had some strong words about the fact that there was a fund-raising e-mail sent out about what democrats were doing. his argument is that this was essentially a gimmick to get publicity and raise money. what do you say to that? >> it wasn't at all. i can't speak for the dccc but i would venture to say not one member on that house floor was fund-raising off of that activity. and more importantly, we recognize that this is a travesty where we have so many people, so many mass murders a month going on. and yet nothing is done about it. imagine if there was that many deaths associated with a particular automobile. the national traffic highway safety administration would be called upon to fix what's wrong.
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yet we haven't been able to do any of that. >> what happened last night i think there's an argument to be made it set some kind of precedent. what kind of precedent did it set and have you opened a door that democrats are going to regret opening should they be in the majority someday or even in the near future? >> i think what's really important to underscore here is that you cannot muscle the minority. you can't shackle them. that's frankly what's happened over the last six years with the republicans. bills just get bottlenecked in committee and are never heard from again. so social media was really the savior for all of us last night because even though they shut us down, even though they turned everything off, we were able to use an app that allowed us to communicate with the rest of the country. and so many outlets covered it. >> all right, congresswoman jackie speier, thanks for your time, appreciate it. >> thank you for the
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opportunity. donald trump explains why he believes britain should "go it alone" after this break. ♪ using 60,000 points from my chase ink card
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full quarter. >> thank you very much. well, there is a lot in common between the trump and the campaign for britain to exit the european union. here is what trump had to sat about how britain should have voted. >> my inclination would be to get out because, you know, just go it alone. it's a mess. it is such a mess over. when you look at what's happened with the, as an example, the migration, when you look at the things that are going on over there, my inclination would be go it alone and go back to where you came from. because that's just my feeling. >> well, joining me now is ben jacobs, political reporter. thank you for being here with us. there are so many factors involved here. immigration probably being the biggest one in the end the economy. but what it has really revealed
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is a very enormous, deep divide between the voters of great britain. >> yes. it most certainly has and the similarities are quite striking between the trump in the united states, and what we are seeing in great britain. the voters in great britain who voted to leave bu, are older more working class, that the parallels are very striking between the voters tr and the voters who have supported dsupp trump. >> what was the major subject that they are so divided by? it looks like immigration. >> yes, immigration certainly played a hiuge part. warnings about middle eastern refuge refugees, sort of heightened rhetoric, about syria and iraq joining the eu, and the middle eastern refugees flooding in, and use this as an example of what the eu was bringing to
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great britain. there are a lot of similarities between that and trump's rhetoric. >> it almost mirrors exactly what is happening here. >> it is speaking to a sense of economic discontent. that the voters have been from the north of england, traditional sort of blue collar labor leaning heartlands where they have ended up being unhappy with the economic progress of the past couple of decades and taking a populous vote. >> what would leave really look like, i know it would be political disaster, but as when the someone comes up tomorrow morning if leave does take over, what are the logistics? what will actually happen. >> well, from the political standpoint, nothing instantaneously happens. this is not a binding referendum, it sets into the motion the british government renegotiating treatise with the european union to pull out of
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the eu, and sets a motion that political process, and also creates a major divide with scotlan scotland, which almost left the united kingdom. they have supported staying in the eu, and that would set off is second referendum there. political ramifications more the united states. >> i also know that one of the concerns here is that if leave wins, will other countries follow? noo ye >> that's the fear throughout europe if great britain decides to leave, then other countries could have -- >> we are going to listen in to e itn they have just called it. >> you have seen joe hill's giving us the reaction to the markets, not an exactly attractive picture. now a moment ago about how that is largely to be expected and we
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will have to see what the long-term impact is, or isn't. maybe we can bring you in here. this has been the direction of travel for a while, and now you are sure. >> it has. we are -- it has been the direction of travel, but we think that the overall percentage of the two sides come the end of affairs will be something like 48% remain, and 52% for leave. so a clear, but perhaps not overwhelming victory, but nonetheless a victory that will be beyond doubt, but will also show that the country is completely split down the middle albeit, it looks like england has voted against remaining in the eu. >> did you see this coming? certainly, the one thing and i go back to your graph, it's like the word immigration, sort of rain comes out at you, doesn't it? in the end was that what it was about? >> i think so, tom, and to the answer to your question is i didn't see this coming. i think if we had expected leave
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to have won, it would have been by a minute margin, it wouldn't have been by a four-point margin. so this is a shock. >> you can't put it down to anything else, really, though, can you, looking at the research, and the word clouds and all the conversations we've had. it's down to immigration, that is what drove people more than anything else. >> it's immigration, and it's an an tie establishment send timment th sentiment. it has been brewing, this tell tale signs have been there. so all of the anti-establishment se sentiment, that rejection of main stream plioliticians, thats all bundled up in politics not speaking for many people in the country and this is the night when they have spoken. >> okay. there is so many different
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things to ask, but i want to begin with a reserved point, do you think george osbourne was being honest when he said there will have to be an emergency budget. >> there will have to be a budget for the new financial prospects, whether george osbourne is bringing that pudget is all together another question, because i don't see how the prime minute nifltister this. but, yes, i mean, one of the things that is for me extraordinary -- >> let's just listen to the voting result and. >> 16 under the european unit i don't mean referendum act 2015, and having been authorized to do so, i here by give notice that i have certified the following, the total number of ballot papers counted was 451,000, 316.
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the number of votes cast in favor of remain a member of the european union was 223,451. the number of votes cast in favor of leave the european union was 227,000 [ cheers and applause ] >> 251. that -- if you would allow me to complete the certification, please. the result is not complete until i have completed the certification. thank you. okay. so you won't have heard the number of casts -- >> the world is watching 63% turnout. the counting off, so making it
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very clear what his view was and everyone should pipe down but that doesn't chapg the fact that it is a leave majority of 3,800, and that does nothing to change the fact that we have called it for leave. robert maybe you could pick up where you left off, emergency budgets and the like. >> so one of the things that i have found very striking tonight is the sheer none of people who either didn't believe the economic warnings, or department care abodepartment -- didn't care about them. this is the issue of trust in the institutions that run this country. and i think this extraordinary manifestation of the more than, you know, on one level more than half the people who live in this country, not only don't like the european union, but they put
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really little weight on the kind of things that institutions like the bank of england have been saying. or they think the economic costs will only fall on rich people and they won't fall on most of us. and i fear that, i mean, you know, david davis made this point he said financial markets overreact and they are no the connected to the real economy. that is rubbish. financial markets overact, when y banks incur losses, they have -- you know, less capital available for lending. these -- there is an intimate link between the financial markets and the real economy. and when financial markets are hurt, the real economy, that's our prosperity is hurt. >> let's spin this over.
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we are waking up to what is potentially one of the most divisive periods. and the campaign wasn't device sidevice -- device sdevice ---lots of people think that it's not going to cost anything to leave. just suppose for a moment he does, and we go to an emergency budget that, the people who didn't want to leave they are going to be angry to be made to pay for something they didn't want. we heard scotland is trying to disappear. what do you see the next year or so? >> i don't want to suggest a magic money tree. even on george osbourne's own side found really unbelievable about his emergency budget or his punishment budget was that he was saying all the weight would fall on spending caps, and even people on his side of the argument was saying, that's just not economically literal. if that was to be the case, this is what i mean about the magic money tree, you would borrow
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more -- there is other ways you could do it. you don't necessarily put on the pain on for instance the welfare budget or whatever. that's the disagreement that people had with osbourne. it wasn't so much that there will have to be a recalculation of our finances at a later point. it was more how you do it. robert is shaking his head, but that's the kind of -- >> shaking my head at just reading -- >> you are watching itv news, an incredibly tight race. let's go back to ron and sauda for an-year-old of what this will do economically. >> it may do a lot, more than we think. certainly in the european union there will be open questions as to whether or not the currency union can actually survive this experience. if indeed ultimately the uk does pull out. this is a nonbinding referendum, it still has to go through parliament. it's a negotiated withdrawal if you will, from the eu. it could send off a chain of
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events, both political and economic that make it that much more difficult for europe to grow, which in turn weakens the global economy. we are seeing massive fall jaou around the world. japan, the u.s. markets are looking lower by about 530 point. that is about a 3% decline. that is in the realm of large market day type declines. not a crash, not in that neighborhood, but currency, the value of the british pound going from 1.50 to a dollar 36 is a history ri historic move. ultimately, lead to a disruption in economic activity. so this is very serious stuff on its face. >> how worried should american investors be? >> i mean, listen in this type of environment, it's best to just kind of hold on to your arm chairs for a little while and let things settle down a bit. it's never wise to make
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emotional moves when the markets are as panicky as they are tonight. some stocks that have great long-term domestic pro prospects will be cheap tomorrow morning. i think we are going to have to take a little time to assess this. the markets all week long, both here and abroad had fully anticipated and priced in a remain vote winning. so this is a big, big surprise for financial markets around the world and it's having broad repercussions. i think you have to wait through this. tomorrow could be a ugly day. you don't bounce back if you fall hard on a friday the following monday. we could be in for a couple of days or weeks of volatility. we will hear from policy makers, the federal reserve has said this event has said this is one reason why it won't raise rates in june, and not july and maybe not for the rest of the year. it's a sit tight moment. but it is something that could have longer term global
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consequences for the economy and the politics of europe. >> a lot of people who voted for remain, the economy seemed to be their biggest argument. what is their worst fear? >> well, their worst fear is that as the european union dissolves, if that were to be realized we would have to go back to single currencies for each country. so you would be talking then about deutsche marks, and portugal, you would be talking about lira in italy. the value of the german mark, could go up. the british pound could go down. their biggest fear, i guess, and the argument behind all this movement to depart the european union is that the british economy is being held back by bureaucratic scler roosis in
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europe. the british economic has been outperforming europe. so i'm not quite sure what the complaint is. there is a broad based complaint around the world that the average individual has not participated in any of the economic rebound we have seen since the economic crisis, and that's led to this type of movement, not only in the uk, in france, but certainly even to our politics here at home. that many people feel disenfranchised. they feel the wealthy are getting wealthier. and it's led to this type of drama not only here in our own politics, but as we see tonight in the uk as well. >> let's go to ben jacobs political reporter with the guardian. benefit, a few moments ago i was asking you one of the concerns seems to be that if this passed and remained lost, that other countries might go the same way. >> yes. that's definitely a concern. and the concern is if the uk leaves, then france might leave, germany might leave, the european union is economically
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an equal group of countries. it has some of the world he is biggest economies like the united kingdom and germany, like greece and spain that has been suffering over the past decade. countries had been helping to bail out the economies of gre c greemegreece and portugal. >> are those the countries that have the most to lose in the eu because of this? >> yes. if you look at the major economic issues that greece has had, that a lot of these countries have been holding on to the fact that they have been in a single currency with much stronger european economies. once this is an option to get out the door might decide to take advantage of it, especially with the national throughout western europe. >> what does it mean for the
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strongest members like germany? >> it becomes a major, major concern that you know, the united kingdom is one of the strongest economies in europe that it's a net importer of goods from the eu. that, you know, united kingdom buys german cars, french food and that if you have england pulling out of the eu, you have the return to trade barrier, you have higher costs for the british to buy goods from over seas from european companies. and that hurts economies and free trade. >> it's interesting because it became so much about immigration, but the fallout seems -- the fear seems to be solely economic. >> yes. that's entirely true that a lot of this was built up around issues of immigration around concerns ranging from refugeere from eastern european workers coming and taking jobs. but the net minus of this economic that the united kingdom is part of one of the largest free trade zones in the world.
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that this is as if all of a sudden new york stopped trading with the rest of the united states. and this has major economic impacts in the same way. >> i want to ask you again, i know i asked you this a little bit erriearlier, what will tomo look like, this is nonbinding. that's confusing. it's such a passionate argument and people feel so strongly on both sides, but tomorrow morning what does it mean for david cameron? what does it mean for all of these different things that we are talking about? what does it really, really mean and what is the time schedule for this vote to actually take effect? >> well, for david cameron it means he's may not have a job tomorrow morning. has staked it on it passing. it has divided the conservative party for decades, and he probab probably -- what it means moving
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forward is having to renegotiate the united kingdom's relationship with europe. this is a nonbinding referendum to renegotiate the terms of the treaty that entered the united kingdom into the eu. and it leaves. the british economy is to deeply run with the european economy. it is one of the biggest financial centers in the united kingdom. you don't need a passport to take a train from paris to london. that there is it freedom to move if you are from germany, you are buy a house in scotland and move there tomorrow. it has a wide range of effects that is almost in many ways, you know, akin to new york sa-- >> it is also interesting from a political standpoint. a lot of people argued that it was very political for people who came out very strongly in favor of leave, and particularly the former mayor, boris johnson, he may have taken such a strong
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standing for leave, because he has his own designs on office. >> yes. that's precisely right. that bore his johnson previously had been someone who had favored the european union in the past. the former mayor of london who as spired to be a prime minister, that there are political opportunities in him taking the leave stand, and opposing cameron and the rest of the party and wage jerriring th leave side would win. he's in a very, very strong position now to potentially, to become prime minister this time tomorrow. >> ben jacobs, please stick around. right now let's listen back into itv news. >> voted no, and they -- but up to now david cameron have said that this is it. there is only one referendum of course and british people went into that referendum expecting that. >> that has been the public voice, have you been hearing anything behind the scenes to
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suggest that if you really do this, well, obviously we'll talk. >> well, i think up to now people have probably been expecting to remain. they have a second referendum, and i found that out this morning. i think on the whole people have said, david cameron has said it, there will only be one referendum, when the british people went to the polling stations to vote, they knew there will be only one referend referendum, and we need to respect that. >> thank you very much. back to you, tom. >> james, thank you very much. i showed you a picture just a short while ago, dawn breaking this is the scene now, rather more dramatic even poetic. and many other people who campaign to leave and many other people who voted to leave but let's be blunt, the country is split right down the middle. the key question, then, what happens next? what will become of us?
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will it be as easy to put back together those trade relationships and as emma is in paris as you saw a few moments ago. emma we talked at the start of this evening about what french reaction might be. it's been said all along that paris can't wait for us to get out and they will do everything they can to help us. is that a realistic attitude? do you think now that we have gone, they will soften a bit and come to some sort of arrangement? >> well, i suppose it was back in 1963 that charles de dpchlt ault assault to block us, and this morning france is waking up to the fact that we've actually opted to leave the european union ourselves. they are therefore going to be work out exactly what that means, not just for europe, but also for france. on one level i would say that the businesses here will be rolling out the red carpet. they will be seeking to absolute maximize what they can get from this situation now and indeed
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that will have a direct knock on effect for workers in the uk. there is no doubt that there will be people working up in the united kingdom this morning who know that they will lose their jobs in the coming weeks and months because the business will be shifting here to france and they won't have the option to move with it. so that is extremely significant. the french business community will be watching at incredibly carefully. for the political elite. there will be a feeling of shock that this has actually happened and a wish to try and protect themselves, to try and prevent any further contagon. this is eight c that will presidential elections. lapen, has said she would seek what she described the french krifrench -- it is extremely difficult
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and potentially damaging situation. the other thing to bear in mind is that french politicians this morning will be starting to see just what they can do to start exercising their own influence on the new 27 union block. that is something we will have to wait and see just what they decide to do. i think the french position will be much firmer than the germans, though. i think france will be very clear this morning that there is no way you can leave, particularly easily, and they will be wanting this to be a very fast move so that they can make the point that exit is not what they are seeking here. >> emma, thank you very much indeed. well, we are joined by john from berlin. i don't know if you heard what emma has said, she said -- >> we have been listening to news in britain. the vote in the uk now is projected to be in favor of leaving the european union. we are here with dominic rush. in the 10:00 hour as this was
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approaching there was a slight lead, it was a very tight vote. now it seems we have the verdict historic. and it seems as though most k n commentators on british television were not ready for this. they were expecting something else. they are now forced to imagine what will happen next in britain, and one of the first things that is going to happen, it's going to take a long time. and they are going to have to negotiate their way out of the european union. >> yeah, because i've seen estimates that it could take 10 years for this to unwind ourselves from this. it's a shocking -- >> pause it's a treaty that people joined and it's a complex treaty to -- to make that agreement to be in the european union. the relationship gets denser. it gets denser over time. so it's not going to be suddenly
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tomorrow all things have changed. it will -- the markets will be reacting to it, but governmentally nothing will actually have changed tomorrow. >> no, as i think one of your other correspondents said earlier it's a nonbinding agreement. we have to see happens tomorrow. there is a strong possibility that david cameron will resign. he has staked his career on this being a win and he's lost -- it's going to be a political and financial crisis tomorrow in the uk. we are already seeing the asian stock markets, britain's biggest bank, trades are down. that's a big crash. we can expect more of that tomorrow morning. there is going to be all kinds of ramifications directly tomorrow morning. but then it's going to be years before we know how this is going to play out. >> is there a case to be made that david cameron should not resign immediately given that this is crisis enough to deal with at the moment? yeah. i think there is a case to be
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made for that, but whether or not that is an option tomorrow morning i don't know. i mean, he's really staked his career on this going through. and this was a gamble that he took to appease the skeptics in his party. >> the vote in the uk has been called by itv news, bbc, several other british broadcasters the campaign to leave the european union in britain has won. moments ago, the leader of the uk independence party spoke to supporters.


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