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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  April 20, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am PDT

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good evening. i'm chris matthews. it was a big night for the home teams in new york. donald trump cleaned the clocks of both his republican rivals putting another roadblock in front of the so-called stop trump movement. we begin with the changing dynamics of the democratic fight. hillary clinton took a big step forward in her path to the nomination winning big over bernie sanders this her adopted state. her victory is major set back for senators after returning to vermont late last night took the day off for the campaign trail to recharge. clinton has won 19 states across the country. look at the map, and up the east coast where she hopes to build upon her success. the race turns to five north eastern states that hold their primaries next week. new polls and two of them show clinton ahead. no surprise there. that's her strength. this pennsylvania poll shows
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clinton ahead up by 13 points. 52-39. clinton is up by 9 in connecticut where her lead is bolstered by the support of women voters. the clinton campaign is hoping to widen that margin in that state with a new ad on gun control, gun safety as we say it now which features the daughter of the sandy hook elementary school principal who very courageously gave up her life in that 2012 massacre. let's watch the ad. >> my mom was the principal of sandy hook school. she was murdered trying to protect the children in her care from the gunman. no one is fighting harder to reform our gun laws than hillary clinton. she's the only candidate that has what it takes to take on the gun lobby. she reminds me of my mother. she isn't scared of anything. >> she reminds me of my mother. she's not afraid of anything. in that order, starting with car
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line, if you look at the map and i've begun to be fascinated with the maps, they shape up as you fill in cross words puzzle. you're seeing where people enlarge on their strength rather than jump around. hillary clinton is strong in the east. it looks to me like she's in a clean up situation right now. >> she's in a very good situation. she's feeling good. they are feeling confident. we do have this kind of moment in the campaign you saw that sanders took the day off. he's tired. he's a little cranky. there's some assessment going on about what his future is. hillary clinton is looking beyond sanders even though they
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won't say that publicly. it feels like this is a moment where he will decide in his heart of hearts he would really like to go do california, keep fighting. keep bringing the money in, but does that make sense more broadly? >> rick, do you think bernie sanders can run a campaign effectively from june by focusing on philosophy and his differences with hillary clinton on issues where he is to her left and very popular for being that and avoid this hitting her with a crowbar? can he run that campaign or does it have to be vicious? >> if you mean something that will get him the nomination? no. if you mean something that will strengthen the democratic party, sure he can do that. he has every right to continue through california and make his
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issue arguments and what i hope he will take from his day off is stop with the character suggestions that there's something unqualified or corrupt about hillary. >> well said. i agree with that. we're talking about a campaign that's in his heart. he can't keep talking about his age, but it does matter. this is his chance. >> it's his time. >> he's almost 75. this is his last time to do something like there. if he wants to end on a positive note he can do that. choosing that he also seems to be having to choose i'm not going to win this thing. i'm not sure he's willing to give it up. >> i can only imagine this is a decision that senator sanders is going to have to make himself not just here but here in his heart. he has to decide -- >> high road, low road. >> he has to decide if it will be not only beneficial to him
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but also beneficial to the nominee and to the democratic party and if his chances in november. he has a ton of money. he can raise millions of dollars. there's no reason for him to get out. he has the money to go around the country. >> there's three races. the money race he's winning. he's winning the polling numbers but he's losing in the delegate fight. a victory speech last night. hillary clinton offered a message to sanders supporters who she will need to win in the election. >> to all the people who supported senator sanders, i believe there's much more that unites us than divides us.
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>> well, senator sanders gave no indication he intends to slow down on concede his fight for the nomination. listen to this. quote, this is from jennifer. sanders needs to decide and as he closes out the democratic primary if he will continue on the destructive path he started down in new york or if he is going to end this primary the way he promised, to run the kind of campaign he would that was focused on issues. tad divine said his candidate can win the primary and blame clinton for the negative tone of the recent campaign. >> there's a lot of states ahead that we can win and a lot of delegates we can win. he's energizing the party. we saw yesterday in the exit poll, two-thirds of the democrats said the campaign was energizing the party. a plurality of voters, 46% said the clinton campaign was the campaign that was being, really
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making a negative case. they should take a step back and restrain the rhetoric we heard from the spokes people last night. >> let me go back to carolyn. one of the problems that bernie changing his tune to a more positive statement. the right to a health care in your life. these are philosophical differences. they're not just money issues. he becomes like ted kennedy giving his georgetown speech back in 80. those kind of speeches. >> i think where you really see this is if on social media the fights that are breaking out between sanders supporters and the clinton supporters. the sanders supporters really feel like this is a movement and this is a sweeping, scathing
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critique of the democratic establishment in their coziness with wall street and with business. they feel like they've unleashed something that's much bigger. if you're asking him to sort of give up what they see as this kind of moral critique in this foundation from which they have run, you're sort of taking away the energy, the breath and force of this whole movement. >> how can he ever endorse hillary clinton who is tied to the establishment? she is the establishment. >> if you watch that vermont press conference which he gave which was really interesting, he was pretty grudging even in his congratulations toward hillary clinton. he also started attacking the new york results voting irregularities. it does not feel like a moment where these feelings are going to go away. he does not seem like just constitutionally a uniter and someone who will be comfortable as a surrogate to hillary
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clinton. >> rick, i think we're not used to coming across someone who has true philosophy. we're used the people it's always matter of degree. i can move a little right or left. we'll get together. it's calibrated. we can fix it. he may be the rare exception of a guy who has an ideological, he's made a decision to not become of a democratic organization. he wants to have a separate philosophy. it may be, you tell me. you think he's the kind of guy to join the gang at the end? >> i think he will. i hope so. i don't see why he shouldn't. being a democratic socialist or social democrat, if you look at the way social democrats behave, they are willing to get together with people to their right and get something done. i don't see why bernie should be
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any different once he calms down. i truly think that hillary would be well advised not to attack him. the commercial you showed a bit earlier, it wasn't an attack. it was an attack on bernie at all. it was a jab. it was a jab because of the alleged opposition to gun safety greatly exaggerated. it's a point where he had to actually play the political game to survive in vermont and she's the one who should be calm and loving, you might say. >> john. >> i find it kind of hilarious that senator sanders is upset about the commercial you just showed from hillary clinton given the commercial his campaign released before the new york primary about money that folks in washington -- >> all crooked.
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>> all crooked and he's holier than thou. i think his fit of peak here is, i don't know, what's the right word to not enrage the bernie sanders supporters. it's frustrating and it's annoying. i can understand why jen put out that statement that she put out. i think that ultimately the clinton campaign, clinton ally, clinton supporters need to step away from senator sanders and give him the time to go through the process of grieving and healing and coming to the point where he becomes a sincere ally of keeping the white house instead of setting up a situation where hillary is the nominee she's so cripple in this environment that could become elected president. >> you don't want to be where he was after the great run in '68. you don't want to be that guy. thank you. i have a long memory for bad behavior.
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it hasn't helped ralph nader. now he'll call me. let me just drop that. i won't say anything. i'll drop that. thank you. thanks for coming on tonight. coming up, with a huge win in new york, can donald trump clench the republican nomination before cleveland or can the stop trump movement still force him out at a contested convention? plus, the growing likelihood that november's general election matchup will be the heavy weight bout we all want to see. trump versus clinton. the hardball round table is here to tell me things, three things i don't know about the 2016 presidential race. you'll want to stick around for that. let me finish with a big problem for politics. we don't build anything because we don't trust the democrats with money and republicans don't want to build anything. this is hardball. the place for politics. we needed 30 new hires for our call center.
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i'm spending too much time hiring and not enough time in my kitchen. (announcer) need to hire fast? go to and post your job to over 100 of the web's leading job boards with a single click. then simply select the best candidates from one easy to review list. you put up one post and the next day you have all these candidates. makes my job a lot easier. (announcer) over 400,000 businesses have already used ziprecruiter. and now you can use ziprecruiter for free. go to
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bernie sanders campaign manager jeff weaver has been on the show a lot. he was asked this evening, the program before us whether his candidate sanders would remain in the democratic party if he does not win the nomination. here is what weaver said. >> will he stay in the democratic party. >> he said he is a democrat. >> he's a member of the democratic party for life? >> yes he is. >> that's interesting. hardball returns afterthis.
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one of the reasons i had this incredible victory last night, everybody's talking about it. it's really nice. it's great feeling. our victories are so big like last night when you get more than 61% of the vote with --
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remember this, with two people running. they're not the best people, but they're people. >> everything you're told by your mother not to do, this guy does, and he won again last night. donald trump spoke to a large rally in indianapolis. it was vintage trump going after crooked hilly and lying ted. paul manafort is trump first and foremost. >> i love running against crooking hillary. i love that. in the case of lying ted cruz, lying ted, lies. he lies. you know ted, he brings the bible, holds it high. puts it down. lies. build a wall. we're going to build a wall. believe me. look at all those cameras zooming. they are the most dishonest people in the world. the media. they are the worst.
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do we like the media? do we hate the media? we need that kind of thinking in this country basis our country is going to hell. believe me. we will get rid of isis so fast that your head will spin, okay. >> this man sees himself in lincoln's chair. get used to that. trump's two remaining opponents insist the race will come down to delegate fight in cleveland at the convention. can the party deny the front-runner even if he's within a few dozen delegates of the matching 1237. the chairman of the colorado republican party needs an unbound delegate. i think a lot of people thinks he gets to around 50 to 100, he'll be able to carry it. ron kauffman said quote, if he's close after june 7th, it will be a compelling reason for folks to say he's won the most delegates by a lot.
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he's won the most voters by a lot. in the end we want to make sure all those millions of people who voted in a republican primary understand the votes were worth while. that's thoughtful. u.s. congressman charlie dent of massachusetts supporter of john kasich. thanks for joining us. what do you think will happen if we're watching cleveland and all eyes will be on gavel to gavel. people watching cspan. what will happen with rules and the role call and all that stuff and credentials and all the fights. what will happen if you see trump at 1100 and he's not a give me like in golf. he's not a few inches from the cup but he's close. what happens then? >> what you're seeing across the country is people are used to if you're watching the sporting event, the team with the most point wins.
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i think that's the way most people say trump. i think he will get to 1237. i think we're seeing that on both sides of the aisle. >> let's take a look at the near future. here is a map of the states that voted so far in the republican race. look at this number. look at ted cruz has done well. look at that. close in now as you're watching. look at the red and where trump has done well. he's going to close in on that open spot. the gray spot there in the northeast. he's ready to just wrap it up in that part of the country after winning new york. let me go to the guy who doesn't like trump.
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he's going to win five next week. >> he's ahead in pennsylvania. i'm not going to deny that fact. these delegates are going to have to make a choice in cleveland. i don't believe donald trump will get the number before cleveland. we're going to start talking about electability. who can win in the fall. >> it's some kind of weird excitement he creates. what if he says i'm going to have a meeting on monday at some arena. he says if we don't get treated right, if i don't get the nomination, we'll all walk together. what happens if he threatens to do that? >> he may do that. if he's the nominee, the estimate is 30% of republicans will walk away from his candidacy. there's going to be hurt feelings no matter ha happens
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here. if donald trump gets it, there will be hurt feelings. we have to accept that fact. we're in a pretty tough spot. he could walk away. with donald trump everything is negotiatable including his party affiliation. i accept that but i don't know how we get out of this. that's why i keep pushing for john kasich. >> what happens if donald trump pulls a reagan like he did in pennsylvania years ago and declares two -- all these things are possible. suppose he gets up tomorrow morning, he just says i'm picking kasich for my running mate. what happens then? >> i guess i would be stuck. >> he hasn't been offered it. >> if you're going to try to pull a ronald reagan, we need a drew louis. today donald trump tweeted, he's
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still tweeting, ted cruz is mathematically out of winning the race. all he can do is be a spoiler. after weeks of saying he's the only candidate to beat trump at the ballot, cruz has come out with a new message, the race is headed to a contested convention. let's watch cruz. >> nobody's getting 1237. donald knows that. we're headed to a contested convention. in a contested convention, the only way you become the republican nominee is earn the support of a majority of delegates elected by the people. >> in the past cruz argued that john kasich should get out of the race because mathematically kasich can't win. let's watch what he's refusing to do now, get out when you can't win.
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>> i don't think any candidate that doesn't have path to winning, that's time when you should suspend your campaign. at this point kasich has been mathematically eliminated. he needs more than 100% of the delegates to be the nominee. that's obviously impossible. >> it's mathematically impossible for john kasich to become the thom knee. >> that's going to be his career move. today, kasich tweeted now that cruz is mathematically eliminated, the only difference is kasich can defeat clinton. congressman, let me ask you about this. how did you guys find such an unlikable opponent as ted cruz. they're all less popular and less impresive. >> people will be disappointed because everybody bets on their horse. now trump has a big lead, and i
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think he will take it to the finish line. it's time for the party to unite. we have to get behind our candidate and focus on the general election. >> let me ask you about pennsylvania. you know it well. you come from the swing part of the state. we have an executive producer, he knows all about it. we talked about that. i've watched that part of the state. you should be able to tell us. will trump win or will your guy win. >> in lehigh valley? >> no, in state of pennsylvania next week. will your guy win or will trump win? >> right now trump is ahead. john kasich is within striking distance. he will do well in the lehigh valley, the capital region and suburban pittsburgh. he will hold his own in a primary and general election. he's beating hillary by 16 points in pennsylvania head to
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head which is quite different than senator cruz or donald trump. >> how come that does make headway with your party? i agree with you. i think of all the candidates could give hillary a tussle, it would be john kasich. >> it frustrates me too. primary voters, let's face it. they are much more concerned about ideological. it's not only about sharing values with a person who is running but you also have to look at electability and in the swing states. pennsylvania, ohio, wisconsin, new hampshire. kasich is beating hillary. >> you're a reasonable republican. up next, some tricky politics for president obama who is in saudi arabia right now just as members of congress are pushing legislation that would allow americans citizens to sue foreign countries. ie, saudi arabia, for attacks on u.s. soil. you can sue them over what they
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did or didn't do with regards to 9/11. i'm skeptical about what they did. i don't think they did it, but we'll see.
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welcome back. president obama arrived this saudi arabia today to meet with gulf leaders and it comes amid saudi arabia's role in the
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september 11, 2001 attacks. earlier this month at an in-depth interview with the atlantic, it was reported that president obama has sharply questioned the role that america's sunni arab allies played. also clouding the relationship is an effort by 9/11 families who want to sue the kingdom for restation. new york time reports suspicions have lingered partly because of the conclusions of a 2002 con congressional inquiies that said some saudi officials had a hand in the plot in 9/11. 28 pages have still not been released publicly. we don't know what's in those 28 pages. i want to show you in exchange i had many years ago with ambassador here from saudi
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arabia. i asked where they turned a blind eye as long as they didn't mess around and cause trouble at home, they didn't care what they did outside. here is how he reacted. >> the sense in this country is your government has been very smart the buy off the younger generation. >> no. >> give them the money to go around the world and do their dirty will and leave them alone. they're paying protection money in a sense. >> you know what, this is [ bleep ] to be honest with you. you should not, america is too great and american media is too important to be ignorant. >> am i ignorant or did i make a point there? i said they don't care how radicalized their young people become. >> the saudis have a very
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different world view and very different goals many the world in the united states. even though we have a different strong military partnership, the saw sees are the number one purchaser of u.s. military equipment. there's a relationship there that will continue on. to continue to deal with the personality conflicts that happen when a family -- >> back to my question. do you believe there's any argument to be made that saudi arabia had something to do with 9/11. is that a legitimate theory or conspiracy theory? >> i think there's reason to be concerned given the saudi population. certain elements have supported extremism. really extremist literal interpretation.
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>> to sue. is that going anywhere even if they get the right to do it? what have they got? >> right now it's clear that they have enough evidence to make it work. it's not evidence yet. i'm told sounds more like a police report than something that's got confirmed data in it. you just saw the supreme court rule in the case of iran from the survivors of the beirut bombing. they could pursue suits. i think president obama's argument as he landed in saudi arabia today was that once you allow that then there are a ton of suit against the united states around the world and you have to think about what happens
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if you begin to lift the sovereign immunity. i don't think that's the central suit that's bothering the saudi's during this visit. it's president obama's comments to jeff goldburg. they have to learn how to share the middle east iran. >> those are two great questions. this president, as long as he's president and his legacy will be to try reproachment with iran. he's dedicated to that. that's never going to be popular with the saudis. >> i think we're seeing now a more honest relationship with the saudis that's going to be based on u.s. counter terrorism needs and less on the oil relationship. >> are we keeping him alive? do we have a little message to those? they probably feel some sympathy to the guy. i know he's been in police custody for a long time.
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>> he's probably keeping him alive. in the case of the saudi's here you said it's a more honest relationship. i think there's something to be said in favor of that. we went through years and years in which the bush administration and the obama administration said in response to our questions no problem here. let's move on. i think the fact that both less oil dependence but more of a sense after the iran deal that the united states can't get involved in the middle of every sunni divide in the middle east. i think that's a healthy conversation to have here. healtier than ignoring the evidence. >> they afterevidence of a role. the important thing to note is up until a year or two ago before you had a change in family, the saudis were also
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calling for these pages to be released. there's an interest on their side. >> i think you're right. >> you want to clear the air too. they did have the 14th thugs on the plane. >> tough. >> there's the problem there. >> they did the physical violence. >> thank you. donald trump is on stage at campaign rally in maryland. he's on attack on hillary right now. when we come back, we'll look forward toward the general election. what can we expect in that battle between the two of the biggest names in america. you're watching hardball, the place for politics.
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donald trump and ted cruz are pushing a vision for america that's divisive and frankly, dangerous. returning to trickle down economics, opposing increase in the minimum wage, restricting a woman's right to make her own health care decision. promising to round up millions of immigrants, threatening to ban all muslims from entering the country. planning to treat american muslims like criminals. these things go against everything america stands for. >> there you have it. welcome back to hardball.
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that was hillary clinton in her big victory speech setting her sights in the general direction of the election. it was all about donald trump. secretary clinton has an early advantage in trump in a hypothetical match. according to the latest poll, hillary clinton leads donald trump by 11 points across the country. he's got 50. that's a good number to have in the race against one other guy. he's got 39. as the primary season winds down, a battle of the sexes and genders are shaping up. he opposes donald trump in principle. april is opposed to trump without thinking about it. he's taught about it. let's try to be analytical here. hillary clinton, that's a general election speech. >> it is. it's smart. she's pretty much wrapped up the nomination. there may be more contests where
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she's going back and forth but the bottom line is she's done. the republican side of the equation, i'm still a big believer that this will go all the way to the convention. if you look at the votes that are out there to be had, new york, everyone assumed he would get 95. he only got 90. >> ohh. >> let's talk about what you're really good at. you're a great brilliant, analyst. i know you have a point of view. describe the profile of the voter for trump. who does show up for him and get excited? they are rooting for this guy. who are those people in your
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party? >> first of all the trump voters are open to say who they are for. the problem he's had is he's started off both hillary and trump started off with a 55% unfavorable rating. almost universal. hers is stayed about 55%. there's a few times it inched down. his has grown to 65, 66, 67% and is strongly disapproved is over 50. >> is that among men and women? >> it is. >> doesn't he care about how women are treated or just guys who don't like his style? >> married white women is a group we have to win by 16, 17%. he's barely breaking even with them on his favorable, unfavorable at the start of this and has gone south since then. who has joined them are married men. >> because they can't defend trump at home. >> voting for who? >> i think it's something more than that. it tends to be married men with children.
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they're having a hard time defending trump this front of their children when they are saying this is not the way to act. >> everything he does is what we're told not to do growing up. don't brag, don't talk down to women, bullying and the dozens. kids are talking among their classmates. my kids are 13 and 8 and saying who would you vote for. this is a white, affluent school that my kids are attending. i did an unscientific poll of white and black people. the african-americans that are supporting trump like the fact he's shaking things up. he's looking at the issue of the border and immigration. there's a fine line between shaking up and going too far. i don't know. he appeals to the people who, the fringe. the fringe of this country who feel they are disenfranchised and feel there's not, there's a
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portion of that. >> i think there's a lot of people that want this system shaken up. >> i think that's right. you see that bernie sanders side as well. >> he wants it changed in particularly direction. i'm not sure trump has a direction. he's just shaking it up. >> he just says he will make it great again without telling us how he will get that done or what the policies are. it seems and maybe ed can speak to this. you have a politician may have high unfavorables but you have people kind of undecided. they might be persuadable, they might be won over. because he comes out of tv, what works on tv really well. either you watch the apprentice because you love him or if you don't love him, you hate him and you don't watch him. >> we're always having a fight in this country. it's not over ethnicity and the usual but it's this do you want
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a strong leader. we want somebody to come in and tell us what to do. somebody to get this thing going. a lot of people voted for mcgovern in '72 because he knew what he was doing. they want to have a sense of direction. >> trump doesn't give a sense of direction. he gives them an attitude. it's an attitude. >> you're right. covering the white house for the last 19 years and watching the people elect three presidents that i've covered and even not elect those, they're still looking for someone who is smarter than them. they want someone -- >> well what kind of smart? >> they want people who are able to -- a lot of politics is very cerebral. people want someone who can -- >> really? >> yes. they want someone who can wade through that. >> what do you mean by smart, high s.a.t. scores? help me out with the smart part. guys like eisenhower always look down on him. funny thing.
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he always seem to succeed in what he was doing. people say kennedy wasn't an intellectual. >> people who understand the constitution. people who understand how to make both sides of the government work to unify. people who understand -- >> i'm not sure that's s.a.t. smart. >> the trump voters want someone to shake it up. people want someone who will make change for them. politics is personal. >> that's why we disagree. this country has been -- two-thirds said they feel the country is going off the wrong track for well over a decade now. he's touched one segment of voters. >> we can do this really late at night and do it for a long time. this is the argument. what is happening? what is going on with this trump? why is he getting all this
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noise? what does he make us laugh even when we don't vote for him? i sit and laugh at him. i go i don't know what i'm laughing at. >> he's a showman. up next, these three people will
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and out comes... papa john??? of the bullpen. it looks like he's taking this official pizza thing pretty seriously. for just 6.99 each get two medium two-topping pizzas. papa john's - the official pizza of major league baseball. moments ago donald trump went after hillary clinton at a rally in maryland. let's listen. >> crooked hillary clinton will not have a chance. she's not bringing jobs back.
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she doesn't know about the economy. she makes bad decisions. you know what bernie sanders said about her twice, you know that. number one he said she wasn't qualified. that's tough. i mean, that's tough. but he said bad judgment. he said she's got bad judgment and it looks to me like she's being protected, it looks to me like they're going to let her run and frankly in a certain way i'm happy about it because we are going to beat her so badly. to get through all these shows! now are you with me? three, two, one... watchathon! big is back. xfinity watchathon week now until april 24. the greatest collection of shows free with xfinity on demand. >> i'm alex trebek. if you're age 50 to 85, i have an important message about security. write down the number on your screen, so you can call when i finish. the lock i wanto talk toou about
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he'd have to win all the delegates in delaware, maryland, pennsylvania, rhode island, west virginia, washington. >> so he's not going to do. >> there's still smoldering anger in the black community. hillary clinton said she'll support president obama's nominee, but the campaign said they're looking at the possibility if she's president she would consider. >> people around bernie sanders are starting to think about what his demand should be at the convention for supporting hillary clinton, one of them structural changes in the nominating process and getting rid of super delegates. >> how about getting rid of caucuses. i thought he was going to say structural changes in the
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♪ no, you're not ♪ yogonna watch it! ♪tch it! ♪
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♪ we can't let you download on the goooooo! ♪ ♪ you'll just have to miss it! ♪ yeah, you'll just have to miss it! ♪ ♪ we can't let you download... uh, no thanks. i have x1 from xfinity so... don't fall for directv. xfinity lets you download your shows from anywhere. i used to like that song. let's me close tonight with something i said last night from below the brooklyn bridge. it's about building. this country was building the transcontinental rail road during the midst of the civil war. we are builders but we've stopped. would we build the golden gate bridge today, we would undertake
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the new york city subway system? would we put anything today? china and japan put our railway systems to shame. you ride on amtrak here and it's a feet of balance to walk up the aisle. meanwhile the other party doesn't believe in investing in the public sector so we head on moving backward as the world moves forward. the one thing a good presidency could accomplish is look at what we did in the time of lincoln and get going in that direction and start now. that's hardball for now. thanks for being with us. chris hayes starts right now.
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of lying ted. >> the myth of donald trump has his new york blow out leaves ted cruz scrambling with the math. >> then after the clinton romp in new york, new questions about the sanders super delegate strategy. >> how can you flip them after the primaries. >> because they're going to want to win in november. >> plus, breaking news on the criminal charges from the flint water charges and the treasury department wants change for a 20. how hamilton saved hamilton and who is replacing jackson when all in starts right now. good evening. after a string of losses at the polls and in the behind the scenes jockeying for delegates donald trump's presidential bid just hit two big milestones.


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