tv DW News LINKTV May 6, 2022 2:00pm-2:31pm PDT
- what's your problem? what's your solution? which wld do weanna liv beyond t covid-1 rus cris? that is the question of this special series kamp sotions. ofessor chard wiinson hadone extsive resrch on the iact of inequaty on soety. if we waa know h can maksociety wo better for all, richa wiinson halots to ll us. weome to kamp solutis. you' been rearchinth impact of equalityn societ d on indidual welleing forany year
and wi your wi, pressor ka pickett, you' writtenwo books about urindings. at have u learne well, wh we did was ok at thscale of ince differces between ch and pr in ricdevelopecountrie and en we reted it to all sts of ouomes ke levelof violee measur by homide rates d life eectancy and thproporti of populati in pris, teage birtrates, a sorts ofhings li that. we h worked alth inealities anwhat's cled the cial determants of alth. medil care inot the mo importa determinant of lifexpectan, muchore impoant are thgs like how richr poor you are, yo soal classyour edution how strsful youlife has en in ma respect the are rely powful deteinants of heth.
- e of thenteresti conclusis in youbook, "the ier levelwhich al fers to ur earli work, "the spit level"s that me econom growth doesn't em to le toetter we-being, heth and hpiness. in ft, theres resear that sugsts that inestern sieties, han't madeny real ogress sie the 19s probab. we mayave had gher income lels, gdper capit t we kinda lt that pgress vers increasg levelsof stre, environmtal deadation d thingsike that so, hodo you expla thathe econoc growth that we' all see be string for tually dsn't ser us? - think it very sile. i me, in a pr society, risingateriastandard are rely impornt. buas we gemore and moref everytng,
it makesess and ss diffence. and at's basally what y see, if you ok at life eectancy agait gnp pecapita in diffent countes the wor, countri get ricr, the fe expecncy goes uand upnd up anthen wheyou get tords the ch countes, it stas to lev off anit's thehorizont. anso countes can get mu, much rher and yethe lifexpectanc n't affeed by th. life expectay tends rise t unrelad to whas happeninto gnp p capita. at lst that'been tru ov the lasgenerati or so nce the 70s but,f cose, moreecently, in t united at, life expectcy has csed to re. anit lookss if se of that is do wi inequaly,
we've haa big ri what e sometis referr tos the dehs of deair. ugs, alcol, suice, thgs like at. and , there'a limit what marial sndards can do for y and it's notimply heth. if youook at msures of ppiness d well-bng, life satfaction,hey ve that me shape so, f to get certain leveof wealtin a socty, gettinricher still doesn't make much difference where diwe go wron i mean, ifou go by tse statiics, at lea, that rearch, it seemso suggesthat er the pt 50 yea, we didt really ke mucprogre and so wt's wron wi our polies? - onomicrowth ishat transfmed the al quali of ourives hisrically om the9th centy
to t middle last ceury buit won'to on improving evything fever. you n have eugh food you can ve enougcars, yocan havenough whever it iand so iis reall.. as i saithat havg more and mo of everhing makeless andess diffen. we are, course,t an interestg moment in histor if therever was mont in oulifetime for radil change thatoment wi be now becauswe're basicallin a locown and ether weike it onot, wee faced th the opportity to rhink, maybreorgani and structur so, we wereo trto do th, fromour persctive, wt would weo differtly? w would change e course - the wer of t search wve done which hanow been reicated my, many tis
is that it showshat life r the va majoritof the popution cane bett th great equalit wean live longer e less mtal illns, less strs, less olence, ronger cmunity le, hier sociamobility i metimes ke jokat e expensof amerins, show theraph of sial mobity relatn to ineality. d, of cose, americanalways tnk th they ha the highessocial mility, the veryobile soety, thers the amican dre anyo can bece presidt anso on. but acally, ifmericansant live thamericanream, they'll much beer to go tcountrielike denrk
at has mh higher soal mobily. soinstead being the la of oppounity, a way, 's the ld of the greatest inequalities oppornity. when ks start f, there armore difrences inerms of ass and pants income a so on. yourather's come matrs ch more where y end up in socie in the and manyther societi. d i thinthat surised a loof reseahers t it's bn repliced onifferentata sets and it'sow well tablishe - that an intesting int becausin the more traditnal euroan sociees where ceain fami stctures he been iplace for ceuries raer than deces as in uned stateoften, yowould exct that these mily favs and ings likthat wou continueo play a role. - the ameran story was out gettg away fromhe classivisionsf rope andritain a so on,
the nded aristoacy and on. anfor a ile, wit of crse the portant, very iortant eeption of racial enic diffences, ited stas was a re flu soety than eopean on but at ceaseto be tr. and looks aif a very iortant pt of thexplanati of why, the ince differces tween ri and poo ha grown swide. we allecome mo worriedbout how were seeand judg. whatou thinkf me, i ink whenou respe me d you lo up to me whenou look wn on me d those nds of anxiies, stas anxiets seem to much hier all ince groups inore uneql societs. we all become more twitchy about how we're seen and judged
if y like. - , from your persctive, from whayou've lrned during allour resech, why wod you sathat equity or i shod say mo equalit ismportantetween pple? - alst all t probls th a more coon at t bottom the soci ladder, high rates oviolencemore obesity,ore teenirths, re people prison. all thosprobms getorse wh there a bigger differces betwn us. people a less lily tonow theineighbor in aore equal society, i yolike lespublic srited, lessnterestein the common gd if you like. and u can denstrate all th with stistics at are clected byll sortsf internatnal orgazations. and so wt we arg,
whate real show is that t qualityf life bter for l of us ese morequal socties. when say forll of us of cours inequaly haits biggt effect on the lst well-f but if anamongst e betterff, pele like u and i,e ght live little t longer if we d the sa job, samencome, se educatn t lived a more equalociety we be lessikely to beme victi of violce, our kidsight bece less inlved in ugs and , seously inlved in ugs. in that way, wall do bter, we need eater uality foall kindof social cditions 've talk about. t you al argue tt weeed grear equali tochieve t very suainable societwe need become to get me in lin if yolike, wi the plat. can you lk abouthat? - the wawe most mmonly try d show o self rth
throughonsumeri and acally, yosee that as equality, as thencome dierences den in sieties, ople borw more, think to kp up witeach oth. soi cagive a gd count of melf by if i' got glaes with thright faion fram orhatever is. and thateeds intan intiable kd of conmption, our consption is competion betwn us. and as think iaid eaier, status aiety goeup not on amongsthe poor t even angst the richith ineqlity. and, of urse, thbig obstle toustainabity isonsumeri.
and weave to rlize th the easst way of ctrollingt, of makg us fee happr with o incomes throughreater eality. but therare surveys or opions of siness lders aski them abt what pority th attach environmentaagreemen. th think ty're less iortant i e equal cieties, presumab all environmtal thin, that'sor so thgovernme d other ople to rry abou just getn and rumy busins. t then pple are ss likel to havthose sorts ofttitudes in a me equal ciety. - u're notust a resecher i sgest beuse togeer with ur wife, you stard a fountion to suprt the vy work i soety thatou writebout. so, you research bu you so want change, wod i be crect? - was givi a lectu in london onhese this
and i suose i wantedeople tonow that ademic evence but somedy came upo me aftwards and said"is anyo caaigning this?" and i'd never thought of campaigning. now, we t up whais now caed the eality ust inially th moneyrom a rge quak foundatn. i supposif you'ra researer who h the... if you le the ra privile of comg acrosseally importt connecons thatren't ve well knn, you el it's ur job t make thebetter kwn, confers kind reonsibity on u. i y say th we didn diover the relationships the firspeople tshow stattical retionship beeen grear inequaty and woe health and more violenc they puished pars in th1970s. first o cam out t 1980s
but nothere arsimply hundredsf papers and people have always known since fore the ench revutio that iquality divisiv d social corrosi and th's simpl at the da shows. - a femonths a, the rld wentnto a lockwn because of crisis at very feweople w coming at did y think iterms of yr work on equali d the ed for eality? whats the opportity? - peopleecome mo sociabl intreets a village and townall overtain, wee learned the names quite aew peopl whlive locly and w didn't know em before. when we out to ve walk to ercise, peop stop an talk to ch other in aay they dn't befe. d what'sappeni ise're a being p in the se boat tether ich is aually wh grter equaty does.
d so theffects a very lely effects greater eality and u can seit in ter of whateople are oking foafterwar. e vast mority ofhe populatn, someing li two irds othe popution d good onionolls sathat thethink weill be a kind societyfter thi they alsthink wel be more eql societ d peopleave been horried by t data he highedeath ras amongsethnic minories from vid. i was raer surpred that. most peoe were sprised because alstll causes of death ve that me patte more cmon amont poor minoriti and so .
bui think e reacti showpeople tnk we shoul't tolere it, we shou do someing abouit. - is is a ow lled kamsolution so, wanna tk about thsolution we know at more uali is good r all ofs t how doe get the? e thing u mentiod in youbooks the conpt of economic docracy. n you ta about tt? - yes,n terms of howou reduc thincomeiffences between chnd poor, most pple thinthat is simply matter higher xes and moreenerous nefits. i think that's part of it, i thinwe've t to stopeople hidi their money away itax have and we'vgot to stopax avoidce. t a muchore fundamtal apprch is to reduce income differences before tax. thbiggesreason for rise in equality is runaw incomest the to
these ople are payi themsels many millio of dolls, hundre of timemore an the arage pern woing in tir company. the past,tronger trad unions, poweul laborovement, cial demratic paies, if y like, t strengt e what iall the counrvailingoice, re peoe with aidea thathere another way thworld n work. i thinthe way w throughoi sysms of empyee ownehip of comnies, legiation fo emplee reprentation on comny board unitedtates anbritain doesn't ve any legiation like that t about lf the meer countes ofhe europn union he at kinof legislation in germa, it's vy strong aprently, out halfhe peopl
on the runeratiocommittees dedingay in th rger comnies have to employe presentaves nofinanciaelite pachutedn. and i thinthat is e way of gting greaterqualit more deey embedd into thfabric oour sociy. and a way, can't easilye undone it's eloyees w create the alth mosfundamenlly and yet ey haven en shari in it. - i t your pnt but how uld thatork that gieconomy that is emerng so fa now where er drive are not atll repsented in the brds of the corpations they'rbasicallworking r? so, how uld we dit there - reay have tdealith these ze hours ctracts. it'sot the rht way to tat humaneings, treati people sily as sources
d i think thatart of that is economic democcy. i thinthat onef the effects the locown anthe recoition th there arsome occations that aressential ople divering, peop workingn shops, obviouy healthervice pple, thshelf-stkers in r supermkets ando on, ddenly sing thesvery badly trted, lowaid peop as esstial worrs, it's chaing thin. d there'a funny bit that'sevelopedn britai evy thursd night at eht o'clo, everyo comes o of theihouses a theclap and ey'rclapping the esial workers rticular the alth serce worke.
d the inrnet is ash with pposals owhat we after ce out this cris and quite stroly reprented e proposs to do methin about poingly lopay and batreatmenin thoseobs. - a univeal basicncome pa of yourdeas of economicemocracy - well, i'm t an ecomist but ineasinglyit seemso me we nd to go that diction. part becauseof coue, people lking at e develoent of aomation, w technogies ando on suests thaperhaps lf or morthan halour jobs arvulnerab to autotion
and crucl to fute well-bei of our cieties is h we hand that. is it st gonnareate enormousnemploymt for large pa of theabor for anhuge weah for e people who nonally owthis automatetechnolo? or aree going have some wayf sharinout wh is proded automically? and do thi iversal sic inco a very portant pa of that. the soluon to th problem in the e of yo last bo, you writthat we n ly achie the goa greaterquality large mbers ofeople comm to that. now,t the ti that you wre the bo, therwas no csis. so, at meanthere was a logil recommdation butoday, sdenly thers that csis and lae groupsf peopleave comeogether. in fac they' all togher. , is ts that mome that weeed?
- i think tt coming out ofhis covicrisis mae a real turning point. there arbig swings, ternatiol eologicaswings, i me, the 60s was a racal deca, the 19s saw a owth ofort of free mark fundamealism, neoleral ecomics th reagaand thater and 's there that wetocked e reallyig ineases innequalit and th was 40 years o now, these anges dot just happen ione couny. the '6 was radal everyere. 1848 rolutionsappened differe contints l that te ago. so, do thinkhat's rely portant,ll thesehanges,
thesswings i inteational eology, onomic iology perhs princilly ani wouldn be at a surpris. i ho very mu thathis cris will he been t trigr to suca swing. - richd, to colude, is betterorld posble? - ohi have ablutely ndoubt. i thinsometimeit would beuite har to cate a rst one. when saw thaonly 9% of e populaon waed to rern to everhing bng as itas beforehe crisis, i thout thathat's an indicaon of thvast majority, 91% the popation di't wa to retu to thatociety. it's aindicati th we can better and i thinwe will better.
- thanyou ve much. - ank you. - more eality inociety isheaper a healthier. it alsleads to happier d cleaneworld. th is the ssage of deces of rearch by pfessor rhard wilnson. yes, we e in arisis and we he a big portunit toake mar progss roll. thisas kamp lutions,tay well andee you nt time. - [moderator] kamp solutions is presented by the world business academy on behalf of just capital. the covid-19 corporate response tracker of just capil trackinthe best actices corporaons serving e needs their eloyees and the communits they sve in this me of naonal cris. see how the best of america's largest employers are trting staholders am the coravirus csis
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