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tv   PBS News Hour  PBS  January 6, 2022 3:00pm-4:01pm PST

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captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening, i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight... >> i will allow no one to place a dagger at the throat of democracy. >> woodruff: one year after a mob stormed the u.s. capitol, president biden urges americans to reject lies about the 2020 election and to instead defend the nation's democratic ideals. then, we take an hour by hour look at the events of january 6th and speak to a panel of seasoned political observers about where the u.s. goes from here. and, in our exclusive interview, vice president kamala harris defends the white house strategy to combat covid-19, two years into the pandemic. >> we want to get back to normal. we all do. but we have to do the tough work
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of pushing through with solutions understanding there are gonna be challenges and meet the challenges where they are. >> woodruff: all that and more on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> fidelity is here to help you work through the unexpected, with financial planning and advice for today, and tomorrow.
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>> the kendeda fund. committed to advancing restorative justice and meaningful work through investments in transformative leaders and ideas. more at kendedafund.org. >> carnegie corporation of new york. supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of international peace and security. at carnegie.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions: and individuals. >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.
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>> woodruff: on this january 6th, solemn ceremonies at the u.s. capitol replaced the violent scenes of rioters ransacking the building one year ago. it was also a day when a sitting president denounced the man he succeeded, in stark terms. congressional correspondent lisa desjardins begins our coverage. >> desjardins: today, a speech, a location and an anniversary which were all unprecedented. >> one year ago today in this sacred place, democracy was attacked. >> desjardins: in one of the oldest parts of the capitol, president biden took on the january sixth attack with his most direct confrontation yet of his predecessor. >> we must be absolutely clear about what is true and what is a lie. and here's the truth: the former president of the united states
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of america has created and spread a web of lies about the 2020 election. he's done so because he values power over principle. he can't accept he lost. >> desjardins: the words echoed inside statuary hall, a place filled with pro-trump rioters onyear ago, a mob that wanted to stop the electoral count and the biden win. he recounted the scene that day in historic terms. >> rioters rampaging, waving for the first time inside this capitol confederate flags that symbolize the cause to destroy america, to rip us apart. even during the civil war, that never ever happened. >> desjardins: the address was unusual for president biden, who has often resisted drawing attention to 2020, and to the big lie from former president trump's about election fraud. he didn't mention the trump name, but he did level very clear charges.
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>> for the first time in our history, a president had not just lost an election, he tried to prevent the peaceful transfer of power as a violent mob breached the capitol. but they failed. they failed. on this day of remembrance, we must make sure that such an attack never, never happens again. >> desjardins: mr. trump fomented the attack, the president said, and then let it continue. >> what did we not see? we didn't see a former president who had just rallied the mob to attack, sitting in a private dining room off the oval office in the white house, watching it all on television, and doing nothing for hours. >> desjardins: former president trump responded shortly after president biden's remarks with several statements lashing back. he wrote, “biden used my name to to further divide america.
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the political theater is all just a distraction for the fact biden has totally and completely failed.” and, mr. trump doubled down on the false claim that the election was fraudulent. that incredible divide, and mr. trump's sway in his party, were evident on the house floor, which met for a brief january 6th commemoration and moment of silence. nearly no republicans attended. but among the few, a very big name: former vice president dick cheney attended with his daughter, congresswoman liz cheney. reporters asked his thoughts on how current republican leaders have handled january 6th, sparking remarkable pushback from a top party member. >> it's not a leadership that resembles any of the folks i knew when i was here for 10 years. >> desjardins: cheney used to be considered among the most hard right, but those who hold that position now, representatives marjorie taylor greene and matt gaetz, showed the divide with
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their own news conference. all this as many members simply wanted to address the harm, and their experiences, from the last january 6th. >> i'm emotional because my memories are very similar to many of yours. >> desjardins: the house held an unusual event: an opportunity for members to give testimonials. >> those of us trapped in the gallery, we lived it. ducking crawling over railings hands knees the sounds, the smells. we had a front row seat to what lies, hate or plain old misinformation conjures. >> desjardins: the january 6th committee did not meet, but has indicated it hopes forublic hearings soon and a report in coming months. >> woodruff: lisa joins me now, along with our chief washington correspondent geoff bennett, who's at the white house. so, lisa, you've been at the capitol most of this day. tell us a little bit more about
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what you're picking up there on this day of looking back. >> judy, the feeling today was reflective, and the tone was soft and quiet, to be honest. in fact, i want to show you what just ended a few minutes ago was a vigil held by congressional leaders, mostly democrats there,s including house speaker nancy pelosi. really, today seemed to me to be about an idea of hea healing and about members dealing with their own personal memories. very different from what i've been experiencing in last year which is members talking about the greater political high stakes. those, however, are still evident. i spoke with one democratic senator who came to the capitol today, told me she is determined, that january 6 makes her more determined about their agenda. all that said,udy, i've been speaking to so many house members this week, and i have to tell you that democrats, lawmakers that i spoke to, did not seem to have a really clear message, a real counter-punch to president trump's false charges about january 6, to his
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following. they seem to have different messages. until today, when president biden spoke, speaking to some of those same democratic lawmakers today, they said they heard something different than they heard before. and one in fact said it was as if president biden said what had been on his mind all along. we'll see if that changes how democrats act going forward. >> woodruff: and picking up on that, geoff, we did hear some, in lisa's report, of what president biden had to say. but you've learned a little more about what was behind the thinking in having him deliver this message today. >> that's right. and the president, as you know, has described this moment as a battle for the soul of the nation. and his remarks this morning, i'm told by source familiar with his thinking, were an acknowledgment that really trying to unite the country starts with a forceful condemnation and a direct calling out of theorces that seek to divide us. and so for president biden, for much of the past year, he's really tried to avoid talking at length about donald trump. and i'm told that's for a few
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reasons. one, he didn't want to try to elevate him or sort of draw more attention to the lies the former president told about the election that he lost. he also, judy, didn't want to really personalize what he sees as being a debate that should focus on trying to defend and preserve the democracy, but really all of that changed today. president biden standing in that capitol he so severes with a top-to-bottom takedown of trump and trumpism. and on his way out of the capitol, the president was asked by a reporter if his words might have done more to divide than heal. and the president shot back, he said no. he said understanding how to move forward requires an understanding of the extent of the wound. and we should also mention that the speech in many ways sets the foundation for democrats as they move forward and try to renew their push for voting rights. there are a pair of bills that are stalled in the senate. so this is going to be a messaging battle that really starts with the kind of direct language we heard from the president and vice president today, judy. >> woodruff: it was a notiable turn. geoff bennett at the white
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house, lisa desjardins at the capitol, thank you both. >> woodruff: as we've been discussing, president biden and vice president harris spoke from capitol hill this morning to mark the anniversary of the insurrection. that's also where we began our conversation with the vice president when we spoke earlier this afternoon. madam vice president, thank you very much for joining us. on this day, one year after the assault on the capitol, you, president biden speaking out very forcefully on the need to correct the lies out there about what happened and to hold former president trump accountable. but we know one year later those lies have only settled in. why do you think it is, after all this time, that attitudes have not changed? >> well, judy, first of all, it's great to be with you. i will say, as i said in my speech this morning, that i do believe that there has been a
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slow attempt to unravel our democracy that preceded one year ago. and it is important that we look at what happen one year ago on january 6 as a moment in a series of events that have been taking place some would argue over the last 15 years slowly but steadily in terms of an attempt to erode our democracy. and when i think then about where we are as of today, this is a moment where we reflect on this violent assault on our capitol, an assault that i think in many ways symbolized what can happen if there is a destruction of democracy, meaning chaos and violence and a lack of order or adherence to rule of law. but let's also see this is a moment where the duality of the existence of a democracy that is both fragile and strong was
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highlighted in that at the end of january 6, that night one year ago, where i was there still as a senator and vice president elect. >> woodruff: right. >> members of all parties, democrats, republicans and independents, went back to show their loyalty to the constitution above party or person and uphold the tenets of our constitution and our democracy. >> woodruff: but just as many people today, if not more, believe the lies about what happened. what's to stop this from just staying this way, this deep polarization for years to come? >> our democracy will not stand and it will not survive if we, each of us is not vigilant in understanding we can take nothing about it for granted. so to your point, there have been moments in history such as this where there has been rampant misinformation lies and it is incumbent then on those who are informed, who are knowledgeable to be vigilant in
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speaking truth, no matter how difficult sometimes it is to hear, much less speak. because the truth is that the democracy of the united states of america is only standing as it is because of the faith and the purpose of the american people to fight for it. >> woodruff: given attitudes out there, do you believe the january 6 house committee will get to the bottom of what happened? >> i do, and from what i'm witnessing from the outside, it seems that they are exercising great diligence and they are being guided by the facts and law and doing their job and upholding their oath to defend and support the constitution of the united states. i do have faith in the process that they have embarked upon and i think we will see, i hope and i believe we will see justice come out of it. >> woodruff: i want to ask you about what the vice chair of that committee, representative liz cheney, one of the only republicans seeking to hold the former president accountable, said.
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she said former president trump, "summoned this mob, assembled the mob and lit the flame of this attack." is she right? >> yes. and again, these are moments where we must speak truth, and i applaud her courage. in the midst of, you know, a number of her colleagues who have failed to show such courage or those who have shown courage and sadly are not seeking reelection or have not sought reelection. i applaud her courage to speak truth. >> woodruff: if that's the case, then does that not mean there will have to be serious consideration of a criminal prosecution? >> i am not privy to the internal facts that are before that committee, so i can't speak to them. and perhaps i'm burdened by also my career as an attorney and as a prosecutor where i'm not going to judge or speak to the facts and the law in the case, which i don't know. >> woodruff: well, let me ask you about the aftermath of all this. you and president biden are
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going to be speaking out more publicly in the days to come about the need for voting rights reform. but we know right now there aren't enoh votes for that in the senate. some republicans are countering right nowith a proposal to reform the way the electoral college vote takes place. why is that not an acceptable compromise? >> because it's not a solution to the problem at hand, which is that right now ithe united states of america, we need federal laws that guarantee the freedom and right of every american to have access to the ballot to be able to vote. the john lewis voting rights act, the freedom to vote act address that issue. and those are the issues that are present and that are imminent and that are really dispositive, frankly, of this moment in time in terms of whether we are going to fight for some of the most important pillars of a democracy, such as the freedom to vote and free and fair elections.
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so let us pass those two pieces of legislation and ensure through federal law that all americans have meaningful access to the polls. >> woodruff: three other things i want to ask you about, madam vice president. covid is the first. six of the prominent public health advisers who were part of the biden-harris transition team have today gone public with a plea to the president to adopt an entirely new pandemic strategy geared to what they call the "new normal" of living with this virus indefinitely, trying to minimize the risk. >> i think that, first of all, what we know without any debate and i think all of us agree is that we have tools available to us to address this pandemic in a way that we can, at the very least, mitigate the harm to the greatest number of people. and so we are going to continue as an administration to urge all people who are eligible to get vaccinated, to get the booster,
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to wear masks when they are in public and to do what is necessary for us to get beyond this. we welcome, of course, anyone who has information, especially those who are experts, about how we can accomplish these goals. but there are certain things that are without debate and really not even necessary for discussion at this point among people who are knowledgeable about what needs to happen in terms of vaccines and boosters and masks. >> woodruff: but is it time for a new approach, is the question. i mean, this administration came in promising to get things on track. here we are a year later, we're in the fourth wave. there aren't enough tests. nearly enough. >> well, okay, first of all, we don't, we know that the approach in terms of vaccines, boosters and masks work, so i don't think that that's what we're discussing right now. but let's also talk about, to your point, where we are today versus a year ago. today, the vast majority of schools are open. today we have a vaccine that the majority of americans have
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actually received. boosters, we are seeing great progress with that. people are wearing their masks. we have seen progress. we are seeing businesses reopen. i think it's important for us just to see in this moment, we're still, it is extremely frustrating, there's no question, for all of us. but we also must acknowledge that there has been progress and that that is the trajectory. but there are still steps to go. we have still work to do and in particular around the vaccines and masks. we want to make sure that everyone is taking advantage of all the tools that we do have available to us right now. >> woodruff: two other things. one is your administration. the biden-harris agenda in the beginning, a year ago, got off to a strong start, but it's obviously stalled. right now, the president's approval ratings have taken a dramatic hit. did you try to do too much? >> well, i think that there are many metrics by which we can
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measure where we are today. one of them, again, is where we are on covid, which we just discussed. let's also look at where we are on the economy. last year, we created six million new jobs. last year we brought unemployment down to i believe it was 4.2%, which the economists, most didn't believe would happen until at least 2023, 2024. so we have seen great progress. we passed an infrastructure law. people have been, both parties as administrations have been talking about doing for generations. there has been great progress, no doubt, covid, for example, i mean, we're all, well, you know, everybody is frustrated with that, and i understand and i fully appreciate there is a level of malaise. we're two years into this thing, you know, people are, we want to get back to normal. we all do. but we have to then do the tough and hard work of pushing through
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with solutions, understanding that there are going to be challenges, but let's meet the challenges where they are. and let's also take a moment to see the progress we've achieved. >> woodruff: last question. this year, madam vice president, has not been an easy one for you. there have been a rash of stories about dissension inside your office, inside the white house, about questions about your role. what would you say you've learned over this year? >> well, one of the things i've learned is to get out of d.c. i think it's important to definitely be out and be, you know, i can't tell you when i've been able to get out of d.c. and be with the folks who are actually informing our policies and will be impacted by our policies. i do hope that this year i will be able to get out there more. i know the president feels the same way so that we can make sure that we are, we are with the folks and not just, frankly,
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you know, hanging out in d.c. with the pundits. >> woodruff: madam vice president kamala harris, thank you very much for joining us today. we appreciate it. >> thank you. good to be with you, thank you. happy new year. >> woodruff: january 6th is a day our own correspondents covered and lived through, and one that over the past year we've continued to learn more and more about. amna nawaz takes a look back with this timeline of the historic and deadly events of that day. >> nawaz: one year ago today, trump supporters from across the country gathered in the nation's capitol to protest congress's certification of the 2020 presidential election results. >> to use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with: we will stop the steal.
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>> nawaz: at a rally near the white house, president trump spoke to a crowd estimated in the thousands, everyone from ordinary americans to conspiracy theorists, to members of right- wing extremist groups. >> we will never give up. we will never concede. >> nawaz: trump repeated the lie that the election was stolen, urging his supporters to march to the capitol and fight. >> you'll never take back our country with weakness. we fight like hell, and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. >> nawaz: around 1:00 p.m., as trump wrapping his remarks in this park, the day turned violent. a group of his supporters on the western side of e capitol confront the handful of police guarding the barriers, and force their way through. moments after mr. trump finished his more-than-hour-long speech, thousands of protesters streamed from the rally site, and walked this route, down pennsylvania avenue, directly to the u.s. capitol grounds.
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several people told us that day they expected vice president pence to overturn the 2020 election results. >> what needs to happen today is vi president pence needs to not open the seven state electors envelopes, the states that i mentioned, set them aside and send them back to those state legislatures. >> we got to stop this steal from happening because if we don't, nobody's ever going to vote again and there's not going to be any ingrity in our voting system. >> nawaz: as the crowd grows, clashes between trump supporters and capitol police officers, clearly outnumbered, intensified. capitiol's west front became a >> nawaz: outside, the capitiol's west front became a battleground. inside, the joint session of congress to certify election results was underway. the traditionally ceremonial process is upended by republicans, led by representative paul gosar of
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arizona and senator ted cruz of texas, challenging trump's loss. >> nawaz: sending lawmakers to their separate chambers to debate. >> what does it say to the nearly half the country that believes this election was rigged if we vote not even to consider the claims of illegality and fraud in this election? >> nawaz: meanwhile, around 2:00 p.m., the east side barricades are breached. here's what i saw from outside the capitol about half an hour ago vehicle barriers that had been set up about 100 yards or so from the capitol were first breached by a group of protesters, capitol police retreated a little bit more then hundreds more protesters started to stream up this walkway in front of the capitol. it is a remarkable scene. on the west front, the mob tore down scaffolding, battled their way through the last line of police defense, and broke into the capitol building itself. newshour congressional correspondent, lisa desjardins,
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was inside the building, reporting live as it happened. >> judy, there are protestors, protestors have broken into the u.s. capitol. >> nawaz: the senate was called into recess and evacuated. the mob of trump supporters roamed the historic halls, damaging property and searching for lawmakers. security footage captured the moment capitol police officer eugene goodman shuttled republican senator mitt romney of utah to safety, before running ahead to divert the approaching mob away from the senate chamber. >> nawaz: rioters came within 100 feet of vice president mike pence, whose security detail took him to safety from an office near the senate. while this was happening, at 2:24 p.m., trump tweeted from te white house, criticizing pence for not having, “the courage to do what should have been done.” remarkably, the house was still in session when rioters attempted to break into that chamber. a police officer shot ashli
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babbitt, an air force veteran from california and q-anon conspiracy theorist, as she and a crowd tried to break into the rear of the chamber where some lawmakers were still sheltering. according to an analysis from the "new york times," rioters breached the capitol in at least eight different places. they entered the rotunda, statuary hall, and the senate chamber. some broke into the offices of lawmakers, including house speaker nancy pelosi's. law enforcement arrived to clear a hallway above statuary hall, where newshour correspondent lisa desjardins was sheltered. >> i no longer hear protesters hall whe they have been, but i do hear shouting as police seem to one-by-one be taking down the protesters, telling them to get on the ground, trying to control the situation. >> nawaz: democratic senator patty murray from washington state spoke with judy woodruff about hiding in her office with her husband that day: >> we were lying on the floor. and we heard somebody saying: "we saw them. they're in one of these rooms."
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and they were pounding on our door and trying to open it. and my husband sat with his foot against the door, praying that it would not break in. >> nawaz: meanwhile outside, as crowds grew, so did the violence. officers on-site continued to call for backup throughout the day. while some reinforcements arrived from local, state and federal agencies, it took national guard units about three hours to respond to the capitol. rioters, outnumbering law enforcement by more than 50-1, attacked, dragged, and beat police officers, crushing them underfoot and spraying them with chemicals. >> they began to beat me with their fists and with what felt like hard metal objects. >> nawaz: in testimony to congress, a former d.c. metro police officer michael fanone recounted being pulled into a crowd of protesters. >> i was electrocuted again and again and again with a taser.
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>> nawaz: in total, nearly 150 police officers were injured on the day. during the attack, those closest to president trump privately urged him to take action and tell his supporters to stop the assault. house republican leader kevin mccarthy spoke with him from the besieged capitol. his son, donald trump jr., and several fox hosts texted white use contacts to tell trump to address the crowd. hours passed before president trump did anything to address the insurrection. just after 4:00 p.m. he released a video repeating unfounded claims about the election results: >> i know your pain, i know your hurt. we had an election that was stolen from us. it was a landslide election and everyone knows it especially the other side but you have to go home now. we have to have peace. >> nawaz: around this time, police began to secure the capitol. flashbangs and teargas were used to clear the western terrace,
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the site of presidential inaugurations. police declared the capitol complex secure around 8:00 p.m. >> to those who wreaked havoc in our capitol today, you did not win. >> nawaz: in the early hours of the next day, january 7th, at 3:42 a.m., congress finished certifying the election results. some senate republicans withdrew their initial objections. a capitol police officer, brian sicknick, suffered two strokes and died that evening. in the days and months following the attack, four police officers who were on duty died by suicide. more than 720 people have been arrested and charged with crimes linked to january 6th. the physical destruction of that day has since been cleaned up, but questions of how to repair the deeper damage to our democracy remain. for the pbs newshour, in
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washington, i'm amna nawaz. >> woodruff: despite the disturbing scenes we've seen of the january 6th insurrection and what we think we know about that historic day, many unknowns still exist. among them, the actions of then- president trump who was silent for more than three hours as his supporters wreaked havoc inside the capitol. that's one area under examination by the bipartisan house committee investigating the january 6th attack. representative bennie thompson, a democrat from mississippi, chairs that committee. i spoke with him a short time ago. congressman thompson, thank you very much for joining us. you should know, you received a vote of confidence today from vice president harris. when i spoke with her, she said she has full confidence that you and your committee will get to the bottom of what happened on january the sixth. my question to you is are you
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equally confident and that you will also get to the bottom of the complicity of the former president? >> i thank the vice president for her vote of confidence. i can assure everyone who's looking at this show that our committee will do its level best to conduct a thorough investigation on the facts and circumstances that occurred on january 6 and make recommendations, if adopted, so that it won't ever happen again. what we had occur on january 6 was a clear threat to our democracy. >> woodruff: your committee has received thousands of pages of records, of documents. you have interviewed, i saw, more than 300 witnesses. can you say who or what has been most helpful to you so far?
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and does that include people who were in the room with former president trump during the time of this assault? >> we've had cooperation from just about every walk of life. but i'm-- i'm real concerned about some of the information we are gathering. it appears that... was not listening to what was happening on january 6. that 187 minutes, as you've come to hear about, that was just too much time between what started here at the capitol and the inaction of the white house that gives me pause that, clearly, our president at that time, donald trump, could have done more. >> woodruff: congressman, you've spoken of your interest in having access to video
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recordings the former president made before he made the video that was-- that was finally released. who has possession of those videos? and do you believe you're going to get them? >> we believe we'll get them if the supreme court agrees with our position. if so, our request to the archives to give us that information will be honored. we believe that that request will include those various edits of tape that ultimately went on the cutting floor, that took so long, for the president just to say to the people he invited to the capitol to "stop doing what you're doing. this is illegal. it's not who we are as americans." burt that 187 minutes, we believe, is so important to the body of work for our committee.
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>> woodruff: you've also said that you have asked the former vice president, mike pence, to cooperate. do you believe he will? will he talk to your committee? >> well, we do know that the vice president resisted president trump's pressure. we need to hear a voluntary statement from former vice president pence as to what he knows about this situation. because after all, at the end of the day, because he stood up for the rule of law, individuals who broke into the capitol wanted to hang him. he knows those comments that we are gradually getting from vrious people, that no better source than the source itself-- and in this situation, it's the vice president. >> woodruff: are you getting signals he'll cooperate? >> not at this point. we do plan to officially ask him to voluntarily come in.
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he's under a lot of pressure. as you know, a lot of members of congress who were very upset on january 6 and january 7 have changed their story. some, like former president trump, are trying to say we need to move on. well, congress has a responsibility to look into what happened. >> woodruff: last question, chairman thompson, and that is you know that a number of republican members of the house are saying that your committee is partisan, that it's one sided in its approach. and just yesterday on the newshour, i want to give you an opportunity to respond to what republican congressman troy nels of texas said. he described the committee as "speaker pelosi's select committee, bennie thompson is the puppet, and she is the puppet master." >> you know, now, this is somebody who voted against a
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committee made up of 50% appointed by pelosi, and 50% appointed by republican leader mccarthy. my position is those individuals who voted against it don't want the truth to come out. but thank goodness speaker pelosi took the leadership mantle by recommending the select committee to congress, and that congress, and the house approved it. and we'll do our work. so the congressman is entitled to his opinion. but in this situation, he's dead wrong. >> woodruff: chairman bennie thompson who is the chair of the select committee investigating the attack on the capitol on january 6. congressman, thank you very much. >> thank you for having me.
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>> woodruff: to help us understand the broader effects january 6 is having on our politics, culture and democracy itself, and consider where we go from here, i recently spoke to four writers who have spent the last year engaged in this conversation. pack is a staff writer at the "the atlantic." he has written extensively about the country's political divisions. jelani cobb covers race and politics at the "the new yorker" and is a prefer of journalism at columbia university. stuart stevens is a former republican strategist. he worked on many reublican campaigns, including from mitt romney in 2012, but has since written the book, "it was all a lie. how the republican party became donald trump." and gary abernathy is a contributing columnist at the washington post. we welcome all four of you to the program.
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thank you so much. let me just lay down the basics. what words would you use, george packer, to describe what happened on january 6? and how much does it matter that we get to the bottom of it, that we hold those responsible accountable? >> at the time, i thought it was an insurrection, and i still do, directed by the president. and i still think that. but i underestimated it. i thought it was a kind of wild shot that nearly hit its target, could have been fatal, but that we dodged. that's not how i see it now. i think it was actually a warning shot and almost a searching for the target that did miss but that found how to get the target next time. and in the year since january 6, what we've seen is efforts by both national republicans and state legislatures and major figures in the party to figure out how to use january 6 to make sure that next time, it works,
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and next time what didn't work for donald trump in overthrowing the 2020 election and the constitution, last time, is going to work next time. and that's-- for that reason, i think a year later i'm far more concerned even than i was when i was in a state of shock on january 6, 2021. >> woodruff: gary abernathy, what about y? how do you see what happened? >> well, i think it was a very disturbing day, judy, one of the most disturbing and embarrassing things that i've ever seen. it makes me actually angry at donald tru, because as someone who supported trump-- an frankly, i'm still glad he was president-- but i think the event disqualifies him from future office, not legally, but in the hearts of people they should say, "we can't vote for this guy again." and it's because of what he didn't do. but as president of the united states, he should have done more to tamp down the emotions of that day. and he should be held politically responsible for not
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doing that. i think it's a stretch to say he's legally responsible for not doing that. and i think the worry for me is going too far the other way to try to really use this politically to slam the republican party in a way legally that really is better adjudicated at the ballot box, so to speak. >> woodruff: jelani cobb, how much does it matter that we understand what happened on january 6? >> it matters-- it's crucial. i can't think of anything that's more important, in fact. i agree with george about if i were to use a single word here to describe at it was, i would say "harbinger." at the moment, people thought that this had been averted and that the danger had passed, but in reality, if we think about january 6 at the capitol, there was a convergence in a single place. and that building was overwhelmed and, you know, supposedly the most fortified,
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secure city in the country in terms of federal presence. and that building was overwhelmed rather easily. what would have happened if we had had a brushfires across the country in the state legislatures as we saw in michigan? what if the militias had come back in michigan, in georgia, in arizona, in places where there was suspicion being ginned up. and how would that have played out? we could have wound up with a much, much worse situation. and there's no guarantee that we won't wind up with a similar kind of situation in the future. >> woodruff: stu stevens, you heard what the others are saying. >> i thi that's important to wrap our minds around is what happen on 1/6 is what happened here, which is auto cratic movement in america. and i think it's a mistake to ice laings 1/6, it's one event, some people came there. look what followed these
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coordinated effort to pass these voting lgislations, to make it more difficult for people who don't vote republican to vote. >> woodruff: and george packer, we heard gary abernathy say in so many words that it would be wrong to overinterpret, over-react to what happened. what do you think about that? >> how can one over-react to a mortal threat to american democracy? the first in my lifetime that actually seems to be on a road toward making it impossible for the popular will to be respected at the ballot box. that's been the goal of all these bills passed or debated across legislatures in georgia, in arizona, in michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, which are not just about restricting access to the ballot, but are about putting elections in in the hands of reliable partisans so that next time around we'll have states that claim that the
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election was somehow wrongly held, and that it's thrown into the hands of a partisan legislature, which sends its own electors to congress to choose the next president. that's exactly the strategy going on right now, and it's building on what the republican party learned from 1/6, and these events around it, which was you need the right people in the right offices to be making these decisions in order to seize power. they didn't have it last time. they're trying to get it next time. i can't possibly overestimate the seriousness of that. >> woodruff: gary abernathy, you're hearing this. you're hearing george and the others say it's-- it's impossible not to take this seriously. >> i want to be clear. i'm on board with everyone who thinks january 6 was a horrible day for our country. i think it's right to remember it. i think it's right to look back at it a day that we should all be ashamed of and hope never repeats itself.
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but i think it's being used politically in some cases to then extrapolate those eents and say, well, we can't have any election reform. we can't have anything because it all an effort to make what happened on janua 6 happen again. and the fact is a lot of us would argue that our system actually worked on january 6. none of these terrible things came to be because, you know, people like mike pence said, "i can't go along with that." so there are degrees of differences here. but in some ways, i think we're on the same page. >> we are not on the same page, gary. and the system did not work if we think about the law enforcement officers, the capitol police officers who lost their lives. >> absolutely. >> the officers who died on that day and those who subsequently died, or have left. we can't gloss this over and make it seem as if it were florida in 2000, where there was a simple bit of electoral glitches tt were resolved
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administratively, bureaucratically. that's not what happened. we have people beating, physically beating police officers and threatening to lynch the sitting vice president of the united states. none of those are minor things. >> woodruff: i want to move in and bring in stu stevens again and talk about the role of the political parties, the republican party in this. we know most republicans today say they believe donald trump was reelected, that joe biden is not republican legitimately the president. >> when we say that the majority of republicans don't believe that joe biden is a legally elected president, that means the majority of republicans in this country don't believe we live in a democracy. they think that we live in an occupied country. and if you follow that to a logical conclusion, it means not only do they have a right to reinstate the rightl president of thenited states. some feel they have an obligation dis. that's what they're going to teach their children. and if you go down that line of
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thinking, it justifies terrible acts of violence and terrible acts of legal authorities, legislatures to try to overturn the will of the people. we've never been here. at least, not since 1860. >> woodruff: george packer, what about the future? how do we keep this democracy strong with this deep division existing in our political body? >> the lesson that i've learned over the past year is that democracy actually depends on a kind of reason obtaining among the electorate, people behaving in at least a roughly rational way, not falling under the spell of conspiracy thinking and irrational interpretations of events, and the spell of an authoritarian demagogue, like donald trump. but what's happened is one of our two major parties has fallen
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into that. it really is simply a matter of each and every american citizen finding it in themselves to resist that force and to try to rescue the democracy that we love from our fellow citizens who seem determined to take it into a direction that i think is dark and destruction of destructive and that i fear very much. >> woodruff: gary abernathy, do you see from where you sit politically a way through this that keeps our democracy strong? >> well, one thing i constantly try to argue for is, judy, we need to respect each other again. we need to respect each other's differences again. i don't care what polls you look at. if you look at polls that say 40% of americans and 80%, or 90% of republicans think the election was stolen, we can't suddenly just demonize and, you know, minimize these people as the americans that they are. we've got to work our way through this, talk our way
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through this, not know-- not just divide into our media camps and our feeds that just reinforce what we believe. we've got to do a good job of continuing to communicate. and eventually, truth wins out. >> woodruff: stu stevens, do you see that as the way through this? >> i think that's a fantasy. you can't negotiate with evil. how do you negotiate with the person who is in the capitol of the united states in a camp auschwitz sweatshirt? you don't want to meet those people halfway. you don't need to understand them. they're wrong. people who believe in democracy are right. the solution to this is pretty straightforward: you have to beat these republicans. you have to have more days like january 5 last year, where you elect democrats in georgia. because the democratic party, which i spent 30 years pointing out flaws in, is thparty that represents democracy in america now. and we have to just accept that and put these other differences aside. >> woodruff: well, it is a conversation we need to continue
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to havals the american people. and i want to thank all four of you for being part of this conversation today. stu stevens, gary abernathy, jelani cobb, george packer, thank you so much. >> woodruff: in the day's other news, covid-19 caused a record 9.5 million new infections worldwide, over the last week, nearly all involving the omicron variant. that was up 70% in just seven days. overall deaths are going down, but the world health organization warned today, that does not mean omicron is mild.
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>> omicron is not the common cold. it can still cause severe disease, particularly among people who are not vaccinated, but of course people of older age, people with underlying conditions, and we're just starting to do analyses on the data coming in from countries and seeing data from countries that exhibit this. >> woodruff: meanwhile, the u.s. postal service asked for a 120- day delay of the federal vaccine mandate for large employers. the agency warned of potentially catastrophic effects on service. and, new orleans kicked off carnival season amid another covid surge. it culminates march 1st with mardi gras-- "fat tuesday." in kazakhstan, new violence erupted, with police killing dozens of rioters. they said 18 security troops died as well. street battles continued for a second day in almaty, the largest city in the central asian country. russia and allied states sent in troops at the kazakh president's
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request. the united nations warned against a hard-line response. >> security forces, whether they are kazakh or whether they are non kazakh troops, need to uphold the same human rights standards, which is to show restraint and protect people's >> woodruff: the unrest began after a spike in fuel prices, and has escalated into a nationwide uprising. thousands of iranians turned out today for mass funerals of 250 victims of the iran/iraq war. in tehran, mourners in black poured into the streets to follow the coffins. the remains were recovered on former battlefields of the 1980's conflict. the funerals showcased hard- liners' power as iran presses demands at nuclear talks in vienna. back in this country, the director of the federal bureau of prisons, michael carvajal, is resigning. his two-year tenure saw the
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rampant spread of covid through federal prisons and allegations of misconduct by staffers, including sexual abuse of inmates. on wall street today, stocks struggled again to make any headway. the dow jones industrial average lost 170 points to close at 36,236. the nasdaq fell 19 points. the s&p 500 slipped four. and, hollywood director peter bogdanovich died early today at his home in los angeles. he gained fame with 1971's "the last picture show", earning eight oscar nominations. two years later, he directed "paper moon," which won an oscar for 10-year-old tatum o'neal. he also had acting roles in several tv series, including "the sopranos." peter bogdanovich was 82 years old.
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>> woodruff: and online, newshour digital anchor nicole ellis spoke to three congresswomen of color about their reflections on january 6th one year later. here is an excerpt from her discussion with representative norma torres of california. >> people were shocked to see insurrectionists carrying the confederate flag. some were shouting racial slurs at capitol police officers. others were seen wearing anti- semitic messaging on their clothing. did your race and gender factor into your concern for your own well being? >> being an immigrant and, you know, thinking about the sacrifices of my parents sending me to the u.s. to escape the same type of violence that was brought upon the u.s. capitol on january 6. that is the political violence
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that my parents wanted so much for me to get away from. >> woodruff: you can find the entire conversation on our website, pbs.org/newshour. and that's the newshour for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. join us online and again here tomorrow evening with david brooks and jonathan capehart. for all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you, please stay safe, and we'll see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> for 25 years, consumer cellular has been offering no-contract wireless plans, designed to help people do more of what they like. our u.s.-based customer service team can help find a plan that fits you. to learn more, visit www.consumercellular.tv.
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>> the ford foundation. working with visionaries on the frontlines of social change worldwide. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and friends of the newshour. >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org
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♪ hello and welcome to "amanpour & company." here's what's coming up. >> if you are under an attack to disenfranchise people and take away folks rights to have their votes counted, the right response is to protect that now and every. >> democratic senator tim kaine talks to christiane about his nation's moment of reckoning. vong rights and his 27-hour drive to washington. then -- >> it's just really scary. so i just hope that, you know, he's able to get better, go home. >> record amounts of children are being hpitalized with coronavirus. why this new wave is hitting them so hard and the emotional toll it is taking. also ahead --

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