tv PBS News Hour PBS October 8, 2021 3:00pm-4:01pm PDT
captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening. i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight: a troubling report. employment numbers in the united states fall short of expectations, as workers continue to leave their jobs in the wake of the pandemic. then, a victory for journalism. the nobel peace prize is awarded to news editors from russia and the philippines for their reporting in the face of political repression. >> when the state's power is focused on journalists, that the way you fight back, is by doing your job. >> woodruff: and, it's friday. david brooks and karen tumulty consider debt ceiling negotiations and new revelations about former president trump's
>> johnson & johnson. >> b.d.o. accountants and advisors. >> the john s. and james l. knight foundation. fostering informed and engaged communities. more at kf.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions: and friends of the newshour. and individuals. >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: september's disappointing u.s. jobs report is further proof of the pandemic's grip on the economy.
the labor department today reported that u.s. employers added just 194,000 jobs last month-- the fewest since december. even so, the unemployment rate dropped sharply, to 4.8%, down from 5.2% in august. we will have more on this, after the news summary. the average daily number of covid-19 cases in the u.s. has dipped below 100,000 for the first time since early august. meanwhile, covid vaccinations have hit a three-month high-- nearly a million per day-- due in part to employers requiring them. in afghanistan, a suicide bombing at a shiite muslim mosque in the northern city of kunduz killed at least 46 people and wounded dozens more. the islamic state claimed responsibility. shattered glass and debris were strewn across the mosque floor, as people worked to cover victims and remove bodies. >> ( translated ): it was around 1:40 p.m. all the muslims had gathered in
the mosque for friday prayers, and then i heard the explosion. i was nearby, and what i saw was just like the end of the world. why is this happening to the muslims? >> woodruff: the islamic state has been behind a spike in recent attacks, since u.s. and nato forces left afghanistan in august. nearly 140 countries have agreed to set a global minimum tax rate of 15% on big multi-national companies. the tentative deal would prevent companies like facebook and google from profiting in low-tax countries. president biden welcomed the agreement, and said it will "even the playing field for american workers." president biden has rejected former president trump's request to withhold white house records from a congressional probe into the january 6th capitol attack. that paves the way for the national archives to release the documents to the house january 6th committee. meanwhile, mr. trump's former aide, steve bannon, said that
he will defy a subpoena from the house committee. president biden restored three national monuments to protected status, cut by former president trump. they include bears ears and grand staircase-escalante in utah, and the northeast canyons and seamounts national monument off the new england coast. mr. trump had opened up some of those areas to mining and development. president biden formally reversed that decisi during a white house ceremony. >> national monuments and parks are part of the identity-- our identity, as a people. they are more than national wonders. they are the birthright we pass from generation to generation, a birthright of every american. >> woodruff: some of the lands in utah are considered sacred to native american tribes. today's move also prevents commercial fishing at the marine conservation area off the coast of new england. there's word that trbd will raise the cap on refugees to
125,000 for fiscal year 2022, that nearly doubles what it was for the previous fiscal year. the increase will follow through on a campaign promise he made to take in more refugees after the cap fell to a historic low under his predecessor. two wealthy parents accused of buying their children's way into elite universities were found guilty today by a federal jury in boston. it is the first case to go to trial in the college admissions scandal that erupted over two years ago. 57 people have been charged in the scheme. federal prosecutors have decided not to pursue charges against a white wisconsin police officer who shot jacob blake, a black man, last year. they said that there is not enough evidence to prove the officer used excessive force or violated blake's civil rights. blake is now paralyzed from the waist down. in nigeria, security forces
have rescued 187 people in one of the country's largest hostage liberations. the victims were abducted by armed bandits in the north- western state of zahm' fara. the hostages, including children and babies, were held captive in a remote forest for weeks. police officials said no ransom money was paid. and, september's weak jobs report pushed stocks lower on wall street today. the dow jones industrial average lost eight points to close at 34,746. the nasdaq fell 74 points, and the s&p 50slipped eight. still to come on the newshour: the nobel peace prize is awarded to joualists from russia and the philippines. former white house russia expert fiona hill explains what she calls donald trump's "dangerous flaw." choreographer and activist bill t. jones returns to the stage, in his largest work yet.
plus, much more. >> woodruff: the u.s. jo report for september showed that covid continues to disrupt the labor market. the government employment was far lower than expected. one key reason? back-to-school hiring in public schools was lower than usual. but the report also underscores other complications in the labor market. the unemployment rate fell to 4.8%-- but that was due in part to people leaving the labor force altogether. job openings are at a record high, and wages increased again last month, as companies tried to attract new employees. more than 25 million people quit their jobs in the first seven months of this year,
and it's now being called "the great resignation." our business and economics correspondent paul solman explains. >> we don't want to do this anymore. >> they just didn't care about me anymore. >> i'm done. i am not working here anymore. i don't feel safe. >> reporter: workers are quitting their jobs at the highest rate in 20 years because, for many of us, the pandemic has prompted a professional reassessment. so says harvard business school's tsedal neeley. >> we cannot underestimate the extent to which people have experienced such stress, such anxiety, and a ton of burnout, in the last 18, 19 months. that is also driving their interest to say, i don't want this lifestyle as it is. i want to change it. >> reporter: georgetown university's brooks holtom has long studied worker turnover. >> periodically, people experience shocks that cause them to reconsider how work fits with the rest of their life.
all of us for the past 18 months have experienced one of these shocks. >> reporter: as microsoft futurist, and slipper fan, desmond dickerson told us, back in the spring: >> 40% of the global workforce intends to leave their job in this coming year. >> reporter: and ever so many have, led by millennials. in the last year, the rate at which workers age 30 to 45 resigned rose by over 20%. some of the hardest hit sectors? health care and tech. the specific reasons? first and perhaps foremost: burnout. >> staffing is at an all-time low. the mole is at an all-time low. it's-- it's traumatic. it's stressful. we're at a breaking point. >> reporter: kaleena soorma quit her job as a patient care director at a new york city hospital in august. >> it's so distressing. you come to work and you have a skeleton crew, and they can't get time off. they can barely even get a lunch break.
they come to you, ask for something, and you have nothing to oer them. they feel so undervalued. it's-- it's hard. it's-- it's-- it's a tough te. >> reporter: across the country, the nursing shortage has become acute. >> there was a point where we could not hire nurses who were below a bachelor's degree. now, just recently, they opened it up to nurses with an associate's degree. so, there's a desperation there. >> reporter: the virus had other front-line workers on edge. >> when the covid-19 pandemic hit, it just kind of crystallized a lot of the ways that they don't care about employee safety. >> reporter: sam weston used to work at the front desk of a hotel in superior, wisconsin. >> i actually took the initiative to, you know, place signs around the hotel lobby, saying, like, hey, wear a mask; hey, keep the six-foot distance. and my hotel management specifically tore those signs down and directly told me not to put those kinds of signs up because it would cause a panic.
>> reporter: nancie picinich johnson was a librarian on long island, new york. >> my job was no longer so totally focused on librarianship. i started to feel like i was a mom every single day. pull your mask up. pull your mask up. oh, i don't want to wear a mask. well, i'm sorry, you can't come into the library without a mask on. >> reporter: a related reason for quitting? lousy employer treatment, for lousy y. alicia bowen made $12.50 an hour as aommercial cleaner in ohio. >> any time i had a family emergency, i was treated horribly. for example, my husband passed away in 2015, and i called and said i needed a week off. and they told me how inconvenient it was and that it wasn't going to work out. it was just years and years of abuse and mistreatment. >> reporter: the shutdown was the last straw. >> i had no backup work, nothing. my hours were cut in half. i felt this was really unfair to me. i'd been working really hard for
these people, sacrificing... and i quit. >> reporter: oscar garcia was a teacher in el paso, texas. teaching online pushed him over the edge, too. >> you spend less time teaching in the room and more time documenting contacts with parents, helping students, technical issues. and then hybridity became worse because you are now inhe room th some students, but some students are still at home. i was so tired. and you're going to hear that a lot from teachers, how exhausting it is. >> reporter: for chicago-area data analyst ricardo martinez, the crunch came from company demands while he worked from home. >> i've got, like, one kid crying over here, another kid that's running by and just wants attention. >> reporter: and then an inflexible supervisor asked why he couldn't make an impromptu online meeting. >> and they're like, are you working? i don't understand. it, like, accelerated-- accentuated all of the feelings i had from before, about how work-life balance worked at my work.
>> reporter: like many other millennials, martinez reassessed his priorities and resigned. so did minneapolis-area digital marketer mark senn. >> most of my friends are preferring to work remote and-- and have seen kind of a shift in that mentality. >> reporter: librarian johnson and her husband, a paramedic, decided to quit their jobs, earlier than planned, for a new life on a farm in upstate new york. >> we've both been career people for our entire adult lives. and it jusgot to be too much. >> reporter: but now, a question you may be asking: how can so many people afford to resign? sam weston is living off savings as he pursues writing and a freelance career in film-making. >> i've been-- i've been investing, actually, in cryptocurrency, a little bit. and that's been increasing the amount of runway that i have. >> reporter: seems like a risky way to stay afloat. >> it is risky, but it's better than working for sebody else
who doesn't care for your health and well-being and who won't give you a leg up to actually do something that feels meaningful. >> reporter: and if he returns to the workforce, weston will be in a stronger position than before. at the end of july, there were a record 10.9 million job openings. it's an emoyees' labor market, says harvard's tsedal neeley. >> people have options. and because they have options, their demands and their interests and their tolerance for things that are not aligned with their values, on how they want to live their lives, they're going to leave and they're going to look for it elsewhere. >> reporter: tech worker mark senn got a job right away, but like quite a few resigners, also has entrepreneurial ambitions. >> my new role has given me opportunities to, like, work on my startup, make more money, and it's full-time remote. i'm able to be at home and really invest in my space. >> reporter: data analyst
ricardo martinez simply found a better fit. >> so, i wound up finding a company that said, we understand family comes first. i was able to make a little bit more money as well, but i was not really financially motivated. >> reporter: nursing supervisor kaleena soorma? >> i resigned for a better position in pay and seemingly a better situation with the staffing and everything, more control that i'll have over that. >> reporter: cleaner alicia bowen's sister hooked her up with a much better gig. >> she works for a bank, and they had a cleaning position open at paying $4 more an hour, with a 401k benefits. and i don't have to drive my car. so i thi what i did by quitting kind of did myself a favor big time. >> reporter: how come you didn't ask your sister about other possibilities earlier? >> i don know. i was scared that i wouldn't qualify for anything else, or scared that it wouldn't work out. i get stuck in this. i feel like i don't deserve any better.
and i do. >> reporter: and in a reopened economy, employers now scramble to find workers. their challenge? a labor force that no longer accepts business as usual. for the pbs newshour, i'm paul solman. >> woodruff: the norwegian nobel committee often likes to make a statement when it awards its annual peace prize, and 2021 is no different two journalists-- one from the phillipines, the other from russia-- were recipients, in a time when the free press is under global attack, and the trutis hard to find. nick schifrin has that. >> schifrin: for a journalist whose government convicted her of crimes to try to force her silence, today was validation.
>> this asymmetrical power-- when the state's power is focused on journalists, that the way you fight back is by doing your job. >> schifrin: for an editor whose newspaper lost six journalists to murder, today was aymbol of journalistic sacrifice. >> ( translated ): this award is for our fallen professionals, who gave their lives for our profession. >> schifrin: maria ressa was a cnn correspondent, and "time" person of the year, who started the independent news outlet, rappler, in the phillipines. >> shoot, and shoot dead. >> schifrin: rappler exposed filipino president rodrigo duterte's drug war, and its brutality. the u.n. calls it an extrajudicial, murderous crackdown, that's killed 12,000. duterte also waged war on the media, and last year, shut down the country's largest broadcaster. ressa has faced ten arrest warrants and still has seven legal cases pending. >> we are fighting for facts. >> schifrin: today, in a conversation with a rappler reporter, she said those in power-- and technology companies-- maintain control, not just through the gun, but by
manipulating theen. >> when we live in a world where facts are debatable, when the world's largest distributor of news prioritizes the spread of lies laced with anger and hate, and spreads it faster and further than fac, then journalism becomes activism. the nobel peace prize committee realized a world without facts means a world without truth, and trust. 59-year-old dmitry muratov is the longtime editor of "novaya gazeta," an island of independence in a sea of media silenced or controlled by the kremlin. other independent russian journalists have been detained, and outlets banned or declared "foreign agents"-- the same designation given to the country's leading opposition figure alexei navalny. >> ( translated ): if i were a member of the nobel peace committee, i would vote for a man the bookmakers bet on. but i think this man has everything ahead of him. and i am talking about alexei navalny. >> schifrin: "novaya gazeta" was in part started with money won
by mikhail gorbachev for his 1990 nobel peace prize. today, at first, the kremlin congratulated muratov. but then the justice ministry labeled more radio free europe/ radio liberty, and bbc journalists, "foreign agents." yesterday was the 15-year anniversary of the murder of anna politkovskaya, a "novaya gazeta" journalist who investigated russian military and intelligence abuses. today, nobel committee chair berit reiss-anderson said, that kind of stifling of freedom of expression, can stifle peace. >> they are representatives of all journalists who stand up for this ideal in a world in which democracy and freedom of the press face increasingly adverse conditions. >> reporter: i'm joined by joel simon, executive director of the committee to protect journalists, an independent organize that promotes press freedom worldwide. joel simon, welcome back to the
"newshour". we just heard the chairman of the nobel committee say journalists around the world face increasingly adverse conditions. so do they? >> oh, absolutely. this is the worst moment we've ever seen, record numbers of journalists imprisoned around the world, every indicator of press freedoms suggest that press freedoms declined almost everywhere. states are deploying violence against journalists. you have the example of jamal khashoggi, "the washington post" columnist murdered by the saudi government, dismembered and disappeared. so there's an unprecedented wave of violence and oppression directed against journalists. frankly, we've never seen anything like it. >> reporter: let's zoom into maria ressa and the philippines. duterte says he's going to crack down. was the crackdown perm or could the drag countdown don't because he has helped it be
institutionalized? >> he's used campaigns of harassment, social media to spread lies and disinformation, he's waged sort of a frontal assault on critical journalists including maria ressa, so that's an institutional practice that will probably outlast him and something not just in the philippines but in these kinds of modern authoritarian states around the world. >> reporter: moving to rust, an unprecedented attack by the kremlin on any dissent and any critical media over the last year. has it worked? >> oh, yeah, it's worked. i think one of the things you have to recognize about russia is that, while the violence against journalists has declined, i mean, dmitry muratov has talked about the war-like casualties that his news organization novaya gazeta had suffered, but the level of violence has declined somewhat in russia because the government has become much more adept at
deploying kind of bureaucratic and legalistic attacks against journalists. the favored strategy these days is simply to declare journalist foreign agents for receiving any sort of funding from outside of russia, and then putting onerous restrictions on them that make it impossible for them to operate. so oppression is very much above in russia, it's just more institutionalized and citiescated. >> reporter: maria ressa talked multiple times today about the importance of facts and the business of impact that we journalists are in. why is it so important, duping, that we need to be able to have a common set of facts when we increasingly see efforts that controlling political power is actually controlling information? >> yeah, we're in the information age and we're involved in sort of a millennial struggle over who controls the information and who gets to determine our reality, and, so,
journalists are very much a part of that battle, and that's why we're seeing such concerted attacks from governments and other enemies of free expression around the world. but, you know, if you don't have information, if you don't have facts, then you don't have accountability, then you don' have the ability to participate in any sort of political process to determine your own future, to determine your own fate, to expose corruption, to defend your rights. all of these things depend on our ability to access independent information. i mean, look, if you look around the world, look at the allenges we face at the the nobel committee could have recognized. we're, you know, in the midst of a pandemic. we're confronting climate change. but i think what the nobel committee was saying is these global problems are enormous, but we can't really fight back against them without essential information, and that's what
journalists provide. >> reporter: joel simon, thank you very much. >> thank you, it's a pleasure. >> woodruff: russian expert fiona hill captured the nation's attention two years ago when she testified during president donald trump's impeachment hearing. now, she's out with a new book, "there is nothing for you here i sat down with her this week to discuss her own journey to becoming a presidential visor, and why she fears the u.s. is heading down a dangerous path. fiona hill, thank you very much for joining us. congratulations on the book. >> oh, thanks so much, judy. it's great to be here. >> jon: so, people know you as an expert on russia and on europe, but this is a book that is built around your personal story. the daughter and the granddaughter of coal miners, who, what, overcame obstacle after obstacle, to end up advising presidents of the
united states. and there was advice that your father gave you when you were younger, that you turned into the title of the book. >> that's right. when i was leaving high school in 1984, in the north-east of england, there was a massive unemployment crisis, especially for youth. 90% of kids who were leaving school had nothing to go on to immediately. my dad was basically talking to me about the future, and he basically said, look, if you want to make something of yourself, you want to pursue an education, want to find a good job. there's nothing for you here, but you're going to have to go somewhere else. because my hometown, from a mining town, a town that had built up around associated industries, and very much like many places across the united states, in the midwest or appalachia, basically was an opportunity desert. and people were going to have to leave in droves from the players to basically get ahead in life. and that was the sad reality of the time. >> woodruff: this is a book of
you overcoming, as i said, obstacles, whether it was to getting an education, to getting a job, to getting ahead in this all-male, almost all-male profession. what were the lessons that you took away from that? >> well, there's a series of larger lessons in this. but i did find opportunity, and obviously i had some amazing opportunities and a lot of career success. all i took away from this was the importance of mentorship, and also the importance of assistance-- to give you a hand up. not a handout in life, but a hand up, because i didn't really do all of this on my own. of course, i worked hard at school. i was very focused on basically all of my studies. i wanted to pursue an education as far as it would take me. and it took me to harvard university. and, you know, many other things besides, all the way along this educational path. i had a grant. i had a subsidy. i graduated without any educational debt at all. but the lesson is that, it actually takes a lot of effort to be able to get ahead. and in that period, up to the
end of the 20th century, it's even more difficult now at the beginning of the 21st. >> woodruff: how many young people would you say today-- and whether it's the united states or great britain-- have the opportunities that fiona hill had? >> a lot less than they should be, because you would expect that over the decades since i graduated high school, since 1984, that there would have been a steady progression and improvement of people into education steps opening more doors for opportunity. well, in fact, that has been an expansion of education, but also a massive expansion of educational debt, because there aren't the grants and the subsidies that there used to be. and so, education is becoming a burden in many respects, and it's putting education-- it's putting it out of reach of the people at the lowest income bracket. what we're seeing now, in the u.s. in particular, but also increasingly in the u.k., is that education in line with you've gone to a college, a community college, two-year or a four-year college, is really determinant ofho you are.
it's a determinant of economic class and of, you know, basically the way you vote, and where you're likely to live as well. >> woodruff: of course, fiona hill, the reason so many people know, you know, your face, is because you were testifying in that-- those first house congressional hearings into former president trump, impeachment hearings. why did you go to work in his administration? >> well, first of all, it was in the interest of public service. i'd already been in previous administrations, both the bush administration and the obama administration, working as a national intelligence officer for russia. i wrote a book on vladimir putin, for example, after i left my previous public service. but we were at serious risk of being exploited by the russian security services. and of course, we saw that in 2016, with a sophisticated influence operation th was launched against the u.s. democratic system and against the u.s. presidency. and i wanted to do something to address that. of course, things didn't go as
i hoped they would. national securitissues ended up being pushed downwards, and we saw much more of this on privatization of foreign policy, the efforts to manipulate national security policy for domestic political purposes-- that was happening, you know, throughout the whole, about four years. >> woodruff: ultimately, what was your assessment of donald trump as a person, and as a president? >> well, as a person, he was extremely vulnerable to manipulation, and that became a problem for him as a president and what i mean by that is, he had a very fragile ego, and he was very susceptible to flattery, as well as taking massive offense, as we all saw, to any kind of criticism. so on a personal level, that was also a pretty dangerous flaw. when you're the president of the united states, it becomes a fatal flaw, because president trump couldn't disassociate or disentangle himself from many of the issues that were the critical ones toddress.
so when people were concerned abt russian influence in the united states election, he only thought about how that affected him. for exple, when people talked about the changes in the u.s. economic structure, you would always think, first of all, about how that might affect him and about how that might affect how people would vote for him. so as a president, he was iquely preoccupied with himself, not with the country. and that, of course, made all of the problems of intelligence risks even higher, because the russians and others from the outside could also manipulate those tendencies. >> woodruff: so, if you can answer this, is the world safer or is it more dangerous because of his presidency? >> well, i think it's become more dangerous, because he was also extremely divisive. because president trump was very focused on getting reelected, and he wasn't going to do that by appealing to all americans. he wanted to appeal to a particular base of people, who were attracted by his personality or attracted by the things that he said he was going to do for them. and of course, that's on different parts of the economic
scale, and the socioeconomic lower levels of people who said, he was going to find them a job. he was going to fix the economy so they would have jobs. at the top end, among millionaires and billionaires, it was that he was going to protect the fortunes from being from those circles themselves. >> woodruff: what i find so striking is that you weren't so concerned about donald trump being controlled by vladimir putin, being influenced by vladimir putin, as you were concerned about the united states following on the same political path that you see russia follow under vladimir putin. >> that's absolutely right. because russia went through a similar wrenching economic period and political periods in the 1990s. so, russia had its equivalent of a kind of thgreat recession, and at the end of that decade, president putin comes in and says, "i'm going to fix everything." "i'm going to make america great again"-- which, of course, is what president trump said in 2016. and what putin did was bically tie himself up into all of these politics he, of course, has extended his terms in office through amending the constitution.
he can essentially be president until 2036. and nald trump has also said that he wants to be president in perpetuity, he wouldn't accept that he lost the 2020 election. he's saying he's going to come back, that he has a right to come back because he was never kicked out of office in the first place, and he's been spreading lies about essentially his own role in all the events that we've seen over the last years. january 6, for example, the storming of the capitol. >> woodruff: do you believe our democracy is in-- is in danger, as a result of this? >> and i think the danger is increasing by the day, because we're constantly seeing other political figures trying to emulate trump. we're now in a situation where lies and deceit have become the coin of governance. >> woodruff: it's a disturbing conclusion in this book. fiona hill, thank you very much. >> thanks so much, judy. i really appreciate it. thank you.
>> woodruff: it has been a whirlwind of a week here in washington, with the u.s. supreme court kicking off its october session, a new report on election interference being issued by the senate, and a temporary deal reached on the federal debt ceiling. to help us make sense of it all, we are joined by brooks and tumulty. that is "new york times" columnist david brooks, and karen tumulty, columnist for the "washington post." jonathan capehart is away. very good to have you poet with us. jonathan capehart is away tonight. happy to see you both on this friday night, but let's talk first, david, about what they've done in the congress and the senate. they've kicked the can down the road. enough republicans gave the democrats the votes they needed to go ahead and movthe debt ceiling decision to december. is it going to be any easier then? >> no. this is what happens when politicians play hand grenade with nation solvency.
it's as if the political campaign is running all year around because it's all about positioning for the next election. so the revs would love to see the democrats on a straight party line basis expand the debt ceiling and they could blame them for all the spending, and mitch mcconnell is sort of backing them up to do it, then he sort of blinked. i think there are two main reasons he blinked. one, there is some threat the democrats were so panicked by this they were going to change the filibuster, which the republicans desperate pli don't want them to do. a possibili they wanted to ease the presentation on joe manchin who's taking heat from more progressive democrats, and a possibility schumer didn't have 50 votes to raise the debt ceiling in which case we would go into insolvency. so we'll go through it again in december. >> woodruff: is december going to be different? >> december will be different because they in the same window will have to vote on the continuing resolution. this is the bill that keeps the
government operating. so we may have, within a few days of each other, these two difficult votes, one to keep spending and the other to keep borrowing. >> woodruff: and, karen, david mentioned this, as some people are saying, including former president trump, saying mitch mcconnell folded. what happened here? >> i all along was a little skeptical that mitch mcconnell was going to be willing to take the fall for making essentially the entire world economy collapse. he had some leverage as too often happens in washington, you know, there's a deal right before the deadline, but i do think we ought to think about whether we ought to even have this whole exercise raising the debt ceiling. it is something that is meaningless in the context of controlling spending because you're basically paying bills for spending you've already done. there's a budget process, there's an appropriations
process. if you want to have fiscal discipline, that's where to do it. i think they ought to just suspend the debt ceiling indefinitely. >> woodruff: which is, i guess, an argument that the treasury secretary janet yellen's been making. david, are there clea winners and losers coming out of this or is p picture just muddied? >> i'd say muddied. the democrats produced votes and the republicans got the idea we're just going to go through this again. everyone's a hypocrite on matters of procedure, so whether filibuster or the debt ceiling, depends on whether you're in the majority or minority. democrats in 2006 were willing to let the republicans take the fall on passing the debt ceilings, and now they've all 180 changed their positions. you do what's in your best interests at the moment, there
are no actual principal players in this. >> woodruff: does one side come out stronger or not? >> no. people seem to think the debt ceiling scroat is some kind of political liability. i have never heard any campaign where it becomes an issue or the subject of an add. the size of the social spending panel ac that the democrats are talking about, that is likely to be figured in the 2022 campaign. but this is just this kabuki theater that they do over and over and over again. >> woodruff: moving on to something we just heard fiona hill, who's written a book about her experiences, david, and that is a number of developments this week and election interference in 2020. you have this disturbing report come out from the senate judiciary committee about the lengths former president trump went to to try to get the
justice department to overturn the election result. then you have more watching state after state saying they want to reform how they count votes and run their elections. how worried should the american people be about all this? >> on a scale of one to ten, seven and a half or so, pretty worried. i'm not a worrying kind of guy, but i think worried about two things -- one, we keep learning more and more that trump really wanted to overturn the election, he wanted to take aay the election. and we also learned that, throughout the administration, throughout some of the republican secretaries of state, there are honest people who won't let him do it. we learned from the senate report he was threatening to fire the attorney general, and there were enough in the justice department who said we'll all quit at once if you do this so he didn't have a chance. the more dangerous thing happening in the states is we're setting ourselves up for this to happen in 2024 if he runs again and is close, and this time he
will have had years to prepare to take the election away and the party seems to be truly focused on this process. that's the thing we're worried about. >> woodruff: where should the concern be focused in all, at there are so many moving parts to this? >> well, the pattern of the trump presidency is with these revelations, you always hear something else hppened that is both shocking and unsurprising and even predictable about donald trump. and there were a few people that stood in the way. dan quayle who talked to mike pence about his lack of powers to overturn the election on january 6th was not on my bingo card for the gaffe yore of democracy. but next year, we're going to have the midterms, and these races in the states where governors may be replaced by governors who would be fine with letting partisan hacks control
elections, secretaries of state, election officials. i think the danger in 2024 is going to be a lot higher even than it was in 2020, and we may once again have donald trump back on the scene. >> woodruff: and i was going to say, whether he's on the ballot. david, you read that portion to have the senate report, where for hour after hour there was an argument inside the white house with then president trump saying we need to replace the acting attorney general in order to overturn the election. i mean, they had to argue him down from this. >> the most chilling quote, and that was jeffery rosen, acting attorney general, one thing we know is you, rosen, aren't going to do anything to overturn the election. that is what the president of the united states said to his acting attorney general. >> and, so, the good news is there were enough. and i guess what strikes me, and this is the underlying problem, is that anytime rudy giuliani or
anybody could come up with a crack pot rationale to do this they seized on it without any evidence. there was never a moment where people in trump world said that theory is a little wacky. they seized on absolutely everything. and that's what happens when you're in a post-truth world. >> woodruff: and if president trump is not on the ballot, there are still people who still espouse his philosophy and deny the election result in 2020 could be pushing the same thing. >> exactly, and these are people running up and down the blotted. it has become practically an article of faith in the republican party that if you want to have a shot at elected office, that you have to say these things that really undermine the integrity of the electoral system. >> woodruff: 59% of republicans in one poll said believing the election was stolen is part of being republican, it's not belief in
free markets or conservatism. it's gotten to trump positions. so the identity of the party has changed from a conservative party to a trump party, at least among half the republicans. >> woodruff: last i want to make time for is the supreme court reconvening this week, a lot of eyes watching the institution because they are taking up hot-button issues -- abortion, gun rights, and others, maybe affirmative action. what are you looking for from this term? you know, people are starting to say, if the court does what we think it could do, this is going to look like a partisan court. >> certainly, i think this is the term in which the heavily conservative supreme court is going to truly show us who they are and what they think, and i think the biggest issue on the plate is whether or not they overturn roe v. wade, either with this case that is coming their way from mississippi or the new texas abortion laws likely to land in their lap again pretty soon.
>> woodruff: i mean, we're always watching the supreme court, david, but is this time different that way? >> i think it is a little. there's been a five-four conservative, but john roberts really cares about the court and the dignity and legitimacy of the court, he could be in the minority and on the left side in these cases because he has been hesitant to turn over precedents, and there seem to be five who are much more willing, so he may turn into being the majority player and no one keeping precedence just for the legitimacy of the court. public opinions on the court are in serious design, the number of people who through it is a legitimate and trustworthy institution is at a low and the supreme court justices are saying we're not partisan hacks, they're not, but they're conservatives and progressives and vote like partisan hacks. on the big ideological cases, the votes are predictable
according to who nominated them. >> woodruff: and at a time when the country is so divided politically. i mean, it matters whether the court is seen as partisan or not. >> absolutely, absolutely. and again, i mean, the fact that these justices are feel the need to go out and say publicly that they are not partans, is that in and of itself is extraordinary, but we will see how these -- how these big cases on, you know, not just abortion but some other hot button issues like guns. and again this is a relatively young court, and this is the court that we are going to see, basically, for a generation, potentially. >> and these three people had faith in governing institutions and when that faith goes away, evything is up for grabs whether we're talking about the budget, election or court, they all go out on the fact that people have lost faith in the legitimacy to have the institution. >> woodruff: that's a grim note. >> based in reality. >> woodruff: on this friday
night, david brooks, karen tumulty, thank you both. >> thank you. >> woodruff: now, a story of choreography and community, as a renowned dancer and choreographer continues to look hard at who "we" are. jeffrey brown visits with bill t. jones for our arts and culture series, "canvas." >> brown: one man-- bill t. jones-- roams an enormous space, telling a story of himself and his country. >> brutality. police. the horrors. unspeakable. >> brown: he's joined by a small group of dancers, who enact and move through that story. and then, by some 90 others, members of the larger community, filling the space, moving as a
crowd. >> i know. >> brown: adding their own stories as individuals. it's called "deep blue sea." >> the piece is about the pursuit of the "we." >> brown: pursuit of the we? >> it's thrown around all the time. "we the people." "we shall overcome." politicians use it all the time, this "we." who is this "we" that you're talking about, considering how fractious our country is and how it has been from the beginning? >> brown: jones has used dance to ask big questions of himself and others since the 1980s, when he and his partner in life and dance, arnie zane, first formed a company. even as their fame grew, their world was devastated by aids, which would take the life of zane in 1988 and so many others. jones would go on to create
jones would go on to create 150 of dces. early on, "d-man in the waters," which directly addressed the loss of his loved ones. it's now the subject of a new documentary, titled "can you bring it," co-directed by rosalynde leblanc, one of his former dancers. and he's continued to take on big subjects in american life and history, as in a 2009 wo on lincoln. his choreography on broadway, for "spring awakening" and "fela" garnered two tony awards. >> brown: last spring, amid the pandemic, he premiered "afterwardsness" in the vastness of new york's park avenue armory-- a dance of distance and loneliness, capturing our moment. >> they don't remember we just don't remember... >> brown: now 69, he returned to the armory with "deep blue sea," a monologue with movement and projection that transforms the space into the sea itself.
in it, he recalls reading "moby dick" in school, and years later, realizing he'd forgotten the one young african american character, the cabin boy pip, who loses his mind at sea. jones saw paralls to today's loss of young black lives. >> was it trayon martin or was it michael brown in ferguson? those things began to happen so regularly. and as we know, in american society, they've never stopped happening. but they suddenly became media-tized. and i was putting together my strong reactions to that, with the fact that i had not seen this small, little character, who was, in a way, kind of collateral damage on ahab's ship. >> brown: another "character" here? bill t. jones himself.
10th of 12 children, whose parents were migrant farm- workers, first in florida, then new york state. >> the young boy that i was when i read the book actually felt the world was full of possibility. i don't know if my mother and father felt that. but i did. and that's what they wanted for me-- they wanted a world that was full of possibility. now this piece is asking, what happened to that young boy in me? and how are they doing in you? >> brown: do you want us to see those depths and those revelations as comments on american history, america, and where we are today? >> i want them to resound with you. are you a moral person? do you give a damn? it's so interesting that "remembering" is "re-membering" or "re-arranging," re-putting something back together, "membering." so, remembering, we all do it as human beings. so i would like to provide you an opportunity to rediscover how that function exists in your
life. it has to be entertaining enough, and it has to be full of enough surprises so that you are alert. because i want to believe, as dr. king believed, that you are basically fair and kind. >> brown: martin luther king artmaking is resistance. i don't know if we're the most responsible to people for managing a city or a hospital or a tv station, but you need us there because we're willing to actually ask the questions and look for answers in inspected >> brown: inevitably here, too: the pandemic. the audience was required be vaccated and masked. but for jones, again, the issues go deeper.
>> my question-- is there a "we"-- seemed almost banal now, considering covid had shown us very clearly, oh yes, there is a we. not in the high-minded and positive way that you're looking atbut we are heir to, literally, microbes. we are heir to the vicissitudes of health and politics that we can barely name. but there is something else about the ability to sing together, ability to congregate willingly and handle each other in public. that's what my world has been, that's what my dance world has been. oh, so there is reason for "deep blue sea" after the-- well, during the pandemic. >> brown: i have seen you describe the pandemic as your "second plague." what did you learn that applies now, or makes you think about making art now? >> well, i guess being the son of a southern baptist woman, even though i'm an atheist, i do believe there is an over-level of consciousness. art can do that.
and it will-- it might not take away all of people's pain, but it might do something else, which is just as good: give people a context in which they can endure. that's it. can you make something that invites people in, to congregate, to have a shared experience, and keep living? ah! that's it. can you encourage people to keep living? >> brown: bill t. jones retired as a dancer 15ears ago. he's back performing now, he says, because this work required his full commitment, and he wanted to gather, and help lead, this larger community. for the pbs newshour, i'm jeffrey brown at the park avenue armory in new york. next on "newshour" explores how the lack of affordable childcare is affecting america's
families. >> reporter: childcare in america, for many, it's out of reach. >> i don't know what we're going to do. can't find daycare. >> reporter: awful scarce and costly. >> i kept saying there's got to be a better way. >> reporter: a dilemma that sparked a national debate. >> access to quality affordable childcare. >> we can't have everything. >> reporter: and will impact americans for generations to come, raising the future, the childcare crisis, a pbs "newshour" special port tuesday october 4 at 10:9 central. >> woodruff: and that is next week. that is the "newshour" for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. join us online and again here monday evening. from all of us here at the "pbs newshour," plea stay safe and have a good weekend. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by:
of these institutions and friends of the newshour. >>his program was made possible by the corporation for publ broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. caioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> you're watching pbs.
♪ ♪ hello, everyone, welcome to "amanpour and company." here's what's coming up. a double shot of hope. pfer seeks authorization for its covid-19 vaccine for young children, one day after the w.h.o. approves the first-ever malaria vaccine. dr. san jay gupta talks about both breakthroughs. then ethiopians are pushed to the brink of starvation as new accusations are leveled against the government. i asked congressman michael mccaul what the united stes is prepared to do to stop the conflict. plus -- >> erybody say yeah! >> 12 young boys trapped deep in a