tv This Week With George Stephanopoulos ABC April 11, 2021 8:00am-9:00am PDT
>> announcer: "this week" with george stephanopoulos starts right now. approaching 100 days. >> debate is welcome. compromise is inevitable. changes are certain. >> president biden pushing his next big initiative, facing pushback from his own party. >> i'm trying to speak for my state. >> executive action on guns. >> gun violence in this country is an epidemic. >> republicans defiant. >> that's not going to fly, and that's not consistent with the constitution or what the american people will accept. >> they'll certainly be challenged in court. >> talking about this with jennifer granholm, gop senator roger wicker and our powerhouse round table. and -- >> is this a use of force? >> yes, sir. >> chilling testimony in the chauvin trial. >> a healthy person subjected to
what mr. floyd was subjected to would have died. >> our legal experts analyze where things stand with the prosecution's case. plus -- >> tell us a little bit about why you did this. >> two strangers. one conversation. can 40 minutes of talk help heal our politics? martha raddatz reports. good morning, and welcome to "this week." 81 days ago, president biden promised to attack the pandemic and its economic fallout with speed and urgency. the relief package has passed. nearly a quarter of the country fully vaccinated. nearly 4.6 million doses yesterday alone. and the economy is coming back, the task now addressing america's long-term challenges. with congress and the country still divided, the degree of difficulty is high. our round table ready to take stock as we near the 100-day pm.
chief washington correspondent jonathan karl starts us off. >> we choose hope over fear, truth over lies and yes, unity over division. >> reporter: during his campaign, joe biden offered himself as a candidate of unity and moderation. somebody who would work with republicans. even suggesting he would be a transitional president. >> look. i view myself as a bridge, not as anything else. >> reporter: nearly three months in, president biden has blazed a different path, aiming to be a transformational president acting to erase his predecessor's legacy and using his narrow democratic majority to ram through the biggest expansion of government since l.b.j. >> you need to remember the government isn't some foreign forc in a distant capital. no. it's us. >> reporter: at first biden did reach out, at least symbolically. the very first members of the congress he invited to the oval office were ten senate republicans. he invited them to talk about a bipartisan covid relief bill,
but republicans weren't willing to go anywhere near as big as biden wanted. >> i would predict that not a single republican will support the $1.9 trillion plan. >> reporter: so he signed the most expensive bill by far ever to pass congress without a single vote from the opposition party. >> we've done more to end child poverty in america than we've ever done. >> reporter: biden is trying to now go bigger, proposing what would be the biggest public works program ever, and big tax increases on corporations and the wealthy to pay for it. he's selling it as an infrastructure plan, but it's more including big investments in roads, bridges, airports and high speed rail, but also a coast to coast network of electric vehicle charging stations, broadband for rural areas, replacing 100% of lead pipes in the country, and $400 billion to care for the elderly and people with disabilities. once again he said he wants to work with republicans.
>> i'm going to bring republicans to the white house. >> reporter: but republican leaders are now in a position of all out opposition. >> this is a bold, left wing administration. i don't think they have a mandate to do what they're doing. >> reporter: even those ten moderates who came to the white house last time around are digging in, responding this week to biden's invitation by saying that the white house used their last talks to, quote, justify its go it alone strategy. republicans are finding it can pay off to be the party of no in the face of a big progressive agenda. republican house leader kevin mccarthy boasting this week he raised more than $27 million in the first quarter of 2021, more than any house republican has ever raised in a single quarter. still hanging over the republicans, donald trump, slowly emerging from his exile in mar-a-lago still clinging to the lie that the election was stolen from him, and even so,
the most in demand endorsement by far for republicans running in 2022. all that explains why biden may want to and may need to bypass republicans, but then the real challenge could be among democrats. joe manchin of deep red west virginia who knows just how powerful he can be in a 50/50 senate took his stand in an op-ed this week saying democrats must, quote, avoid the temptation to abandon our republican colleagues. as the clock ticks down to the first 100 days in office, at least one voice in the party is saying, not so fast. republicans may not be willing to deal, but as long as joe manchin is holding out, biden will have no choice but to try. >> thanks to jon karl for that. let's talk about it on our round table. we are joined by chris christie, rahm emanuel, our congressional correspondent rachel scott making her round table debut. welcome. and "the new york times" correspondent maggie haberman.
the covid relief package has passed. the president is making progress on covid, on the pandemic. what does he do to keep the momentum going? >> first of all, keep pushing this because it's very popular. not only what he did in the past in the sense of getting economic relief to americans who have been hurt by the pandemic, but look. every one of these items, whether it's roadways or broadband is very popular not just with democrats and independents, but a third of the republican party, and that's a problem for republicans, and one of the things he has done and the white house has done is come up with a very secret sauce. among his persona, his soothing and reassuring to moderate swing voters. his policies, soothing and reassuring to progressives. that creates a problem for the republicans, as a dynamic between the persona and the policy that they cannot crack which is why they're trying to divert everything away from the actual discussion of this package. >> let me disagree with rahm on the fact that i'm trying to divert anything away from his package.
i want us to look closely at the package. you cannot call a $400 billion plan to force unionization in states to say that taking care of increasing medicaid payments in states is infrastructure. now language does matter. we learned that in the last four years. how you use it and what you say, and i said last week that the president's not telling the truth, and he's not telling the truth about the infrastructure package. this is the care economy. this is care infrastructure. it's baloney, and so what's going to happen is the president right now is in the first 100 days and he's going to have that soothing persona and all the rest of it, but when people start to look at what he's really doing, george, those moderate voters -- >> but even the things you just mentioned right there are popular. people would love to have medicaid increases. >> like their grandparents to be taken care of. >> here's what's not popular. lying is not popular. it's not infrastructure, george. >> do you want to use the word lie there? come on. >> donald trump -- let's be fair
here. if donald trump had come out and called a dog a cat which is what joe biden is doing, we would be outraged by the fact that he's lying, but when joe biden is talking about, well, come on, it's joe. no, no, no. it's not true. if he wants to make the case, george, for increased medicaid payments and connect it to those payments, mandatorily using union members, let him make that case and see if he gets it passed i know he won't, and people around this table know he won't either. >> you spend every day up on capitol hill. you talk to people on both sides of the aisle. what are the prospects of reaching a deal? >> i was talking to democratic senator chris coons yesterday, and he's been working the phones along with pete buttigieg, and they're trying to get republicans and democrats on the same page here. coons does believe there's a narrow prospect for an infrastructure package. he's saying to the white house and saying to democrats, let's try to work on this on a two-track system. you can have democrats try to make this very broad package with everything they want in it, but at the same time, try to work with republicans on a more
narrow package, maybe working on that through memorial day, having that be sort of the deadline there. i was also talking to a senior democratic source who says right now they have five republican senators who are on board with a package up to $1 trillion. the question though is, can you get five more, right? you need ten. >> do you believe a republican votes yes for any package? >> i think for any conceivable packages, there are changes that could be made, but what's on the table right now, no, i do not. i think biden has, you know, decided the way he's going to go is to pitch very large projects. we obviously saw it with the covid-related bill, but that was different. the way people are responding to covid and their crises related to it is different. there are elements of this package that are popular, but the overall package i think requires a level of selling from the administration that is just beginning, and that i think is just different. i don't think the public is as keyed in on this overall bill as they were on the covid relief bill. >> rahm, if all the republicans
are against anything like what the president is posing right now, is it joe manchin's washington? >> no. washington is america's capital, not his. he's a very crucial player, and he's playing that role excellent to that point. i do think we should not lose sight of this fact, which is the package, the first package as i like to say is covid and is one response. this package and i defer to issues of roads and broadband, is very popular with the american people. they see it in their own community. they know the impact of having delayed -- bad roads getting to their kids' soccer games or after school activities when they're back in school. i would say to this point, it's popular with the her. -- american people, and one of the things that washington has not caught on, is that joe biden knows what bipartisanship is. when you get the american voters, that's a problem.
>> i completely agree with that. >> that is what's in this package. he got 10% of the republican vote across the states' average that he swung from 2016 to 2020. he's consistently from the covid package to this package, talking to biden republicans. >> voters are also going to want to see biden work with democrats on this, too. this go at it alone -- >> you mean republicans. >> democrats and republicans. even manchin, he's signaling by pushing past this filibuster discussion. biden needs to come to the table and meet republicans on some type of package, and maybe that's infrastructure. >> the democrats seemed to calculate their best policy is to keep passing things as much as they can. is it the best for republicans to be no across the board? >> they're not going to be no across the board. maggie knows this. if they put forward a real infrastructure bill, roads, bridges, tunnels, rail, broadband. if they put together something like that, they're going to get
enough republican votes in the senate to pass it, but that's not what they want to do. he says that's what he wants to do, but it's not. so let's not pretend. we haven't redefined bipartisanship with all due respect to my friend. we haven't. in a poll -- it's not translating to votes in congress. >> you had democrats who were willing to vote for a package signed by president trump. it doesn't appear right now that you have republicans willing to vote for packages put forward by president biden. >> no. he's put forward a liberal wish list of things they want to do, and they won the election. so they get to put forward their wish list, but you have to put it forward honestly. joe biden's got to stop not telling the truth, and if he stops not telling the truth, and makes the case for increasing the size of medicaid, then see if you can pass it or not. you can pass an infrastructure package. republican mayors and governors are going to want it, and republican senators are going to
want to go home and say, i fixed that road. i fixed that bridge. i fixed that tunnel. >> i think here's the thing which is there are -- there's going to be an agreement, and this is what i think chris is missing. when biden says, look. there are going to be changes. i'm open to it. come on down to the office. that open, basic approach, that tone and tenor is reassuring and i think you're missing the fact of how reassuring that soothes the public, and he's not trying to be partisan, and it's not up to the republicans. bipartisanship requires the other side coming forward. >> maggie, we haven't seen much of trump the last couple of months, but he has a lock behind the scenes on the republican party. big republican conference in mar-a-lago over the weekend. spent as much time attacking republicans as democrats. >> absolutely. spent as much time attacking mitch mcconnell as he did talking about the future of the party or any kind of forward looking vision. it's really breathtaking. this was a republican national committee donor event and that is where he chose to attack the most prominent republican who exists in the country at the
moment. also continued to attack mike pence, the former vice president whose life was threatened on january 6th. this is the dilemma republicans have -- or some republicans, not all, but there are republicans willing to criticize him. there are any other number of republicans who went down to kiss the ring at mar-a-lago, and as long as that is going to happen, trump is going to retain a presence in the party. >> he's the most sought after endorsement in the party. >> he's the leader of the party. >> right. >> i mean, that's fact, and that's with any former president. when the other party takes over. >> not jimmy carter. >> well, look. carter was a real exception, i think, because the american people had so clearly rejected him in 1980. i mean, you didn't have that clear rejection here in 2020 as you did four years earlier. reagan won 40 states, i mean, in 1980. it was a pretty clear rejection, but look. here's what republicans need to do. the way you lose elections is to
talk about the past. the way you lose elections is to look in the rear-view mirror and act that way. voters want you talking about we need to stop attacking each other, and we need to start talking about the future and contrast ourselves to the democrats, and if president trump is able to figure out how to do that, great. join the chorus, but if he isn't, now -- we're only 11 weeks in. so i'm not ready to just say, this is the way it's going to be for the next two years, but if he's not able to do that, then he's going to diminish himself for the future. >> rachel, we know the people want his endorsement. you're on the capitol. how much talk is there about donald trump? >> i would say it's split. the challenge for the republican party is how do you reset in this moment? is this a time after you've already lost the white house, after you lost the senate, is this a time where you try and figure out who is the next leader going forward, and i think that republicans are split, and we saw that in the
aftermath of the impeachment trial over the legacy of donald trump and his role in the party going forward. i don't think anyone is surprised to see trump's comments on mcconnell after he said that he was immorally responsible for the violence that occurred on january 6th, but the question i think is here with the republican party, how do you get them all together before 2022, and before 2024? >> can i say one thing? >> democrat. >> john boehner has a book out. >> galvanized it. >> he talked about gaining public control, and he got eaten by it. that's what's happening with donald trump. mitch mcconnell and the rest of the leadership thought they could use donald trump for their own advantages, and now they're being eaten by it. boehner's experience that he talks about with fox and it being taken over by the tea party is what's happening with the rest of the party with donald trump and they cannot shake him and it's going to be a problem for them because it's going to be constantly his grievances about the past and it has nothing to do with the american people.
>> in the meantime, one of president trump's -- former president trump's top accolades in the house, matt gaetz facing a world of trouble. it turns out that one of his associates in florida may be turning against him in the sex trafficking case. gaetz, defiant. >> so when you see the leaks and the lies and the falsehoods, and the smears. when you see the anonymous sources and insiders forecasting my demise, know this. they aren't really coming for me. they're coming for you. i'm just in the way. >> maggie haberman, i'm having a hard time figuring out who the you is. >> this is the donald trump playbook of what you say when you are under investigation. it's what we heard donald trump say over and over again over the course of four years. the you is supposed to be his district. i would note he remains very popular in his district. it is a very red and very trumpy district, but he has no one in congress -- not no one, but almost no one who really wants to stand with him right now. he has very few defenders.
former president trump is not defending him despite his years of -- >> you and the "new york times" have been doing a deep dive into this case. explain what's at issue here. >> sure. so the issue is whether gaetz working with this friend as you mentioned, this former tax collector named joel greenberg, whether they were involved in sex trafficking, and whether gaetz paid for sex and had sex with a minor. he has denied both of those things, but greenberg as you said, he is likely to take a plea based on what his prosecutors and own lawyer has said, and he said that matt gaetz should not be feeling very comfortable, and that indicates he's going to try to help himself with his prison term by cooperating on something about gaetz. again, we -- there's a lot we still don't know about this investigation, but this investigation began under former president trump. gaetz has been describing this as a liberal witch hunt. this started under bill barr. >> reporting he tried to get a pre-emptive pardon.
not a lot of significant support from republicans. >> it's interesting what we're not hearing from republicans. you don't have anyone in republican leadership rushing to the defense of matt gaetz. you don't have anyone coming out and saying this is wrong that he should be removed from these committees. it's this wait and see approach. wait and see how it plays out. they're going to be pressed on this, and they're going to have to answer to this as this investigation sort of unfolds. >> look. what i have learned over seven years as a federal prosecutor is the investigation will yield what it will yield, and we won't have to speculate anymore, you know, if greenberg winds up cooperating, we're going to know that, and we're going to hear what he's got to say and evaluate the evidence when it comes forward, and whatever matt gaetz said in his speech about you and they're after you, not me. no, no, no. they're after you. i can say as a prosecutor. they're not going to prosecute
any people in your district. they're investigating you. >> people woke up sunday morning for that insight. go back to your coffee. relax. they're not looking for you. they're looking at that guy over there. >> they're after him, and we're going to see whether they have him or not, and one of the real ugly things that has happened over the last number of years has been the increasing leaks of these type of investigations. when i became governor, you know, the legislators would complain about the fact that i brought 29 federal prosecutors with me to the governor's office and said, these guys think they're prosecutors. it'll leak. what the hell is going on? it really, really bothers me, and i said to this attorney general barr at the time about all the leaking that was going on, and i don't know what the truth is about matt gaetz, but one thing i'm confident of, is we're going to find it. >> you have this case, and nobody is saying anything, even though there's a lot to be said,
and you have congressman greene who raised an extraordinary amount of money. this is telling of the republican party, and it's a an indication that the republican party is trapped still in trump's world. >> i want to finish with maggie there. more signs talking about prosecutors that the noose is tightening around the associates of president trump here in manhattan. >> in the manhattan case as we understand it, is they're trying to squeeze allen weisselberg. he knows where all the finances have been over decades. he worked for fred trump, not just donald trump. what they're trying to do is squeeze him. whether that's successful i think is a very open question. whether their case has much more to it, i think we will find out. >> they've got a former daughter-in-law cooperating. >> they have a former daughter-in-law cooperating, and they have subpoenaed financial records and they are talking to any number of people and going through donald trump's taxes which are millions of pages. this is going to take a little bit of time, but it's absolutely clear that this investigation is accelerating and every move
indicates he's going to make a case. >> that's all we have time for today. thank you very much. jennifer granholm and roger wicker are up next. stay with us. roger wicker are up next. stay with us. these are the people who work on the front lines. they need a network that's built right. that's why we created verizon frontline. the advanced network and technology for first responders. built on america's most reliable network. built for real interoperability. and built for 5g. it's america's #1 network in public safety. verizon frontline. built right for first responders.
there's more money in their electric cars than roads and bridges. what is your definition of infrastructure? >> it can't be too small because what we're talking about now needs to be transformative and it has to be big. >> i think it's more likely that we will have a package that is not paid for, and is less robust. >> we'll be open to new ideas and good faith negotiations, but here's what we won't be open to. we will not be open to doing nothing. >> the debate over president biden's plan. let's join in now with one of the cabinet secretaries, secretary granholm. thank you for joining us this morning. you heard the round table right there. it seems there are two courses ahead of the president right now. stick with the big package and try to get joe manchin on board, and break it up into smaller
pieces and get republicans on board. let's talk about the first path first. what's the pitch to joe manchin to get him to buy off on this big package? >> because so much of this package will help not just west virginia, but the states like west virginia that have been historically mining fossil fuels, extracting fossil fuels. republicans and democrats agree on the importance of not leaving communities behind where the market has moved in a different direction like in coal, and so this will help to train people who are in that industry to move to these new technologies that are not a whole lot different from the skills that they may be using in mine and coal. it will help to make sure that these industries are able to remove carbon from their emissions. so there's a lot in there that helps these states move to the future in addition to roads and bridges and in rural states, broadband.
and transmission. so much in here to love. >> you say in addition to roads and bridges. you heard chris christie there saying that the president is not being fully truthful about what infrastructure actually is. >> yeah. this -- i mean, what is infrastructure? historically it's been what makes the economy move. what do we need to ensure our citizens are productive? you need transmission and you need lights in people's homes and offices and make sure people can go to work if they have an aging parent or a child. this is, you know, as the president said this week, that infrastructure evolves to meet the american people's aspirations, and it's not static. in 1990, we wouldn't have thought that broadband was infrastructure because it wasn't on the scene yet. we need that in every pocket of the country. the president wants to negotiate with republicans, and he wants to see a common vision for the future. chris christie talked about --
talking about the future. we don't want to use past definitions of infrastructure when we are moving into the future, and by the way, when other countries are investing significantly in their infrastructure to overcome us. research and development, that's also part of a manufacturing infrastructure that we have seen go. we're at a 70-year low in terms of manufacturing jobs as a percentage of the economy. bottom line is, chris -- i mean, chris. i'm sorry, george. we have to move forward. i know. i apologize. but anyway, bottom line is we have to move forward and we have to look forward and we have the win the future, and this is the biggest investment in the future of america that we have seen in our lifetime. >> it seems like the ceiling for republican support is about $1 trillion which is less than half of what the president is proposing right now. is the president willing to talk about a package about that size? maybe break up the big package into several pieces? >> the president is willing to negotiate what this looks like.
he knows that -- that his current plan is going to be changed. that's the nature of compromise. so whether it is in one big package or several packages, he wants to talk to republicans because again, a lot of the republicans that he's talking to, have actually introduced bills that are consonant with what's in this package. at the end of 2020, there was a massive energy act of 2020 that was hugely bipartisan that made authorizations for investments just like this stuff. so i don't know how you can say in texas that it's not important to invest in transmission grid. these are things democrats and republicans know need to happen. it's a question of the process to get to the finish line. >> the obama administration looking back spent too much time on health care when it wasn't possible. how much time is the president willing to give the republican party to see if there really can be bipartisanship before he goes for a democrats alone strategy on reconciliation?
>> first of all, you could get a bipartisan solution on reconciliation too by the way, but i do think the president wants to give it the time necessary to see if he can achieve that bipartisan support. so, you know, hopefully there will be progress by memorial day. i know that he wants to get this done by summer. so, you know, not doing something is not an option. he wants to see this happen, and we are still $8.4 million -- million jobs in the hole before the covid crisis hit. we know we need to move and we need to move quickly, but we also want it to be bipartisan. >> we are still in the hole, but the economy is starting to grow. do you think that will make it more difficult to get the support you need right now? >> well, you know what, george? even though the economy is growing, it's excellent, the execution that was made in getting shots in people's arms
and money in people's pockets. that was the rescue package for covid, and this is the recovery. because we have disinvested in our nation for so many years, the fact that we have seen a 40% decline since the 1960s in infrastructure, we have -- we are competing globally. if we want to win this race and, you know, standing up for example, fabrication facilities for semiconductors. that's in this package too. if we don't do, that you better believe we're going to lose the ability to do electric vehicles and technology that's important. making the battery supply chain for the batteries for electric vehicles here in the united states instead of relying on other countries. we need to make these investments. we need to make the investments at the size of the need for america to win, and so that's what this is about. he does not want to see it diminished to a point where
we're not going to achieve what we need to achieve for this country, and our people. >> secretary granholm, thanks for your time this morning. let's bring in republican senator roger wicker from mississippi. thank you for joining us this morning. you heard secretary granholm right there saying the only way america is going to win is if they pass this package now. >> well, listen. we're willing to negotiate a much smaller package, but i thought jonathan karl's lead-in piece was -- made a very good point. americans voted for a pragmatic moderate that they thought joe biden was. where is that centrist candidate they thought they were voting for back in november of last year? i mean, you've got -- you've got a proposal here of the $2.3 trillion, 70% of which any stretch of the imagination can't be called infrastructure. that's on top of what a few weeks ago was not covid-related.
the skinny federal budget that the president rolled out just this past week. where does the spending end? this is a massive social welfare spending program combined with a massive tax increase on small business job creators. i can't think of a worse thing to
do that secretary granholm was talking about bringing us out of this recession caused by covid. i can't think of a worse tax to put on the american people than -- than to raise taxes op small business job creators which is what this bill would do. >> well, the corporate tax would be well below the one before president trump's tax cuts went into effect.
the fact those businesses will have an increase is minimal. >> well, i totally disagree. back in february of 2020, before the covid recession hit us, unemployment rate was 3.5%, an unheard of low amount. a lot of people re-entering the work force, including minority work participation, veteran work participation, female job participation, it was up, and we had 3.5% unemployment. i think -- i think the tax package of 2017 really was our signature accomplishment, and it ushered in and was about to usher in before the pandemic took over, it was about to usher in even greater economic growth. so i would just say to this -- i'm meeting with the president tomorrow at 1:30 if my plane gets into washington on time. we are willing to negotiate with him on an infrastructure package, and this trillion
dollar number is way too high for me. i'll just tell you, but negotiation has to be something different from what we had on the rescue plan. >> senator -- >> the president offered $1.9 trillion. republicans came back with $600 billion, and the president said, that's not good enough. make me another offer. now that's -- that is normally not the way negotiations go. the president should have come back with a counteroffer, and if he will do that with the republicans that are meeting with him in the white house tomorrow, i think we can get somewhere and have a much bigger infrastructure package than we were able to do under the last administration. i'm in favor of that, and i think the majority of republicans are, and we can get
a lot of democrats to help us on that, and then we'll talk about these social welfare programs that make up 70% of this new package that the president is calling infrastructure. >> senator wicker, thanks for your time this morning. >> thank you. when we come back, two weeks into the chauvin trial. where do things stand? our legal team is next. nope... charmin ultra soft is so soft you'll have to remind your family they can use less. charmin ultra soft is twice as absorbent so you can use less. don't worry, there's plenty left for you, dad. we all go, why not enjoy the go with charmin. ♪ mom and dad left costa rica, 1971. and in 1990, they opened lrazu.
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night except for the interactions with law enforcement. >> the law enforcement subdual and restraint and neck compression was more than mr. floyd could take by virtue of those heart conditions. >> week two of the derek chauvin murder trial has wrapped, and the defense is expected to start presenting their case next week. our legal team here to break down what we've learned so for. we're joined by dan abrams, pierre thomas, and terri austin from law and crime, and dan, let me begin with you. we're two weeks in right now. assess the prosecution's case. >> i think it's a stronger case than many even expected coming into this. there were potential pitfalls for the prosecution coming into this case, and they seem to have avoided them so far. two key legal questions, right? number one is the reasonableness of the force, number two is cause of death. on reasonableness of force, these witnesses have been so powerful. these are not random experts. this is the police chief from minneapolis. this is lapd's expert in this particular area, and they are
saying that's not reasonable. i think on that issue, it is a nonissue at this point in the case. the second issue has always been the trickier one which is the cause of death, and one of the questions was what exactly will the medical examiner say? meaning he gave this kind of nuanced assessment. he said, yes, it was the police, but there were also these underlying conditions. he had a heart condition and drugs in his system. when he testified, his testimony was even stronger than his report was. further helping the prosecution's case. i think anyone watching this would tell you this has been a strong case and probably even stronger than many had expected. >> terri, it was striking to see those police officers offer some damning testimony. >> it was. you know, so far they have been thorough. they have been methodical, and it's been ten days. we have had 35 witnesses and definitely these police officers were impactful. so first you have the individual, the sergeant, who
came to the scene that day on may 25th, and he testified that he got a call from the 911 operator. so he was powerful and at the end of the day he said he would not have used that restraint with the person underneath them not moving, not breathing, and then of course, you had sergeant stiger who was the expert, and he said it was unreasonable force. i agree with dan here that with the captain and the chief arradondo, there's no question he underscored everything by saying, you have a duty of care here, and in no way, shape, or form did what derek chauvin do, was showing that he cared about the person who was in his custody. >> pierre, the defense is at a tough road here. they have tried to make an issue of the crowd's watching as the arrest unfolded. >> they have indeed, george. they basically said that because the crowd was getting rowdy, that the officers may have been distracted, but a lot of civil rights officials and african-americans are saying
that that's just not going to cut it, that at the end of the day, these people were watching someone die before their very eyes and they wanted the police to stop, cease and desist. so law enforcement officials are saying that this just doesn't cut it, george. >> dan abrams, the defense is likely to start this week. all they need to do is raise some doubt with one juror. >> right. in order to potentially get a hung jury, right? the only doubt they can really focus on is this cause of death. they're going to try to call experts. we're going to talk about the fentanyl in his system. they're going to have an expert say this could have been considered an overdose. what we've seen from the prosecution's experts is it might be in someone else, but not in this particular person. so that's going to be the key to the defense. i have to say though to add to pierre's point, it's not just african-americans. just as a legal analyst i can tell you that the defense's pursuit of this case that he was distracted, is dangerous. you're saying, i may have kept my knee on this man's neck, and may have potentially killed him
because i was distracted? what kind of legal defense is that? it just doesn't hold water regardless. i have always said that's a very dangerous area for them to focus on. the main area for them to focus on ought to be on this cause of death and it's possible they get that one juror, but i'll tell you based on what we've seen, i'll be stunned if we don't get a conviction or at least a hung jury. >> these cases are notoriously difficult to win. >> i would not be stunned if quite frankly there's an acquittal because it's hard to convict a police officer. we haven't seen it done. we certainly haven't seen it done in minnesota where there's a police officer who's been accused of murder as far as a person of color is concerned. so i think that would be quite unusual, and we haven't seen the defense yet. i think they will bring on
evidence that there is some doubt as to this cause of death. i wouldn't be shocked at all if, in fact, we come back with a verdict where he's acquitted, and i think that we'll see some outrage from the community if, in fact, that happens. >> any chance chauvin testifies? >> i don't think so, george. i think it would be so dangerous to put him on the stand. what is he going to say on cross-examination when he's asked, why didn't you get up and you saw that george floyd was not breathing? he was not moving. he didn't even have a pulse. so i would never put him on the stand under these circumstances. >> let me go to pierre. the defense said there's no political or social cause in the courtroom. that's not always true. it's difficult to accept in this case. >> george, george floyd is dead over $20. $20, an alleged counterfeit bill, and there are issues of race in policing and there's issues of equal justice under
the law, and there's a human issue, not just a legal issue. is this appropriate? are black people treated fairly when they're dealt with by the police, and we looked at some numbers for the city of minneapolis and found that african-americans make up roughly 13% of the population, but they are 63% of those arrested. this case has enormous implications, not just what's taking place in that trial, but across the country, because those numbers i gave you, george, seen across the nation. they have to take into account how they treat people of color, and i think the george floyd trial has put the entire country on notice and that's why you have seen a large movement arise out of the case. >> i remember when you were covering the o.j. simpson trial. it feels like it's not quite at that level yet, but it feels like this trial has gripped the nation. >> there's no question, because look. there is symbolism in this beyond just the case itself.
white police officer with knee on black man who is dying under his knee. boy. there's nothing sort of symbolic more so than that, and you can watch that tape, and i don't care what race yo are. that tape is so hard to watch, and inside that courtroom, jurors are being asked to watch it again and again in different ways and different manners. so, you know, because this case as pierre points out has this sort of, you know, this sense of something more, it feels that way as well. >> and that is all we have time for today. thank you very much. we'll be right back. struggling to manage my type 2 diabetes was knocking me out of my zone, but lowering my a1c with once-weekly ozempic®
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to my family members to convince them to take the covid-19 vaccine. i'm not even sure if i'm convinced. hi darius, i think that people respond more to what we do than what we say. so after looking at all the data and the science about these vaccines, i got the vaccine. and i made sure my mom and dad got the vaccine. because these vaccines are safe. ♪ ♪ in "the new york times" this weekend, it was written that america is so divided that it can feel as though the two political teams are not only talking past each other, but speaking entirely different tongues. but one organization is working a way to bridge the gap, 40-minute conversations with strangers with different views. martha raddatz reports. >> my political values are very conservative. >> i would describe myself as fairly liberal.
>> reporter: it's a meeting of opposites. >> when you read my bio -- >> mm-hmm. >> -- what did you think? >> my mind kicked into stereotype. she's probably a democrat. >> reporter: who have more in common than they might have thought. >> tell us a little bit about why you did this. >> we started recognizing there was this huge rift in human connection happening in the country. >> reporter: one small step pairs two strangers for a 40-minute conversation. >> you put two people, two strangers across the political divide together and they see each other differently when they're done with that conversation, and the premise is, you know, it's hard to hate up close. >> how do you find the people? >> so obviously we need half conservatives and half liberals and you'll have something in common with that person although you won't know it. maybe you've both recently been divorced or you have had a child who's been married recently, and then you just talk about your lives. again, it's not about politics. one small step --
>> it's not about politics? >> it's not about politics. you do not talk about politics. i mean, people can talk about whatever they want to, but we encourage people to just talk about their lives. this is not about an argument. arguing across political divides is fine, it's healthy, it's great. the issue is that we've gotten to the point where we hate each other and we have got to figure out some way to -- to, you know, see each other as human beings again. >> my name is beth givens. i'm a united methodist clergy person and i'm a single mom of two daughters. >> i was born and raised in nigeria and moved to the u.s. >> reporter: these two both live in richmond, virginia, but had never met before their one small step conversation. >> what was it that intrigued you about u.s. politics? >> a lot of things go back to my brother. >> my dad collects campaign buttons. >> reporter: beth, a democrat, and lanre who identifies as an independent, but leans
conservative on social issues, shared their political evolution, thoughts on family and immigration, bonding over their shared christian faith. what immediate differences did you find with lanre? either political or life? was there any friction you felt at the beginning? >> i don't think there was any friction, but i think there was definitely for me, a recognition that we have lived really different lives. >> how about you? >> it was a good opportunity to empathize with someone else and understand someone else's background. >> reporter: but not everyone is willing to come to the table. i crossed the country this past year and have done many trips on the road and saw that political divide close up. >> when you have conversations with people who are trump
supporters, give us a sense of how that goes neighbor to neighbor. >> it's a lot of just anger. >> i wouldn't be surprised if i put up a sign and then my fence is cut. >> it's a delicate subject in some of our family members. >> there's some people i think i could probably get in a room. >> yep. >> or sent to you, and others -- >> that's right. >> i can't imagine. >> so our, you know, there's -- there's a group called more in common that talks about the exhausted majority. so about 89% of the country is exhausted, sick of this, scared about where the country is going. there's another 11% who are probably unreachable in an effort like this. so we are not aiming for those people, but the good news is there is a vast majority of people who want to get out of there. >> reporter: so could that way out come down to one simple conversation at a time? >> none of us are simple enough to be just thrown in a bucket. we're all too darn complicated for that. >> and the end result of having these conversations and
storytelling needs to be that. >> yep. >> people are so many things. >> lanre, what do you take away from this? >> hearing someone's personal story, it's a very powerful thing. >> so in other words, beth, one small step? >> absolutely. for both of us. >> one small step. thanks to martha for that. that is all for us today. thanks for sharing part of your sunday with us. check out "world news tonight," and i'll see you tomorrow on "gma." out "world news tonight, and i'll see you tomorrow on "gma."
california is set to expand vaccine eligibility to all adults but some communities are already moving forward. the counties showing you how to sign up. good morning and alive look with some fog and temperatures in the 50s for concorde but how about another 20 degrees of warming with mostly sunny skies for upper 70s? we will talk about the rest of the ba dana-farber cancer institute discovered the pd-l1 pathway. pd-l1. they changed how the world fights cancer. blocking the pd-l1 protein,