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tv   The Five  FOX News  December 29, 2021 2:00pm-3:00pm PST

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thank you. once again, the jury of course saying that it has reached a verdict in the trial of ghislaine maxwell. stay tuned for more on that. we've obviously been awaiting that and we are going to continue to follow it. very closely as soon as they are willing to release what that verdict is and share it with us. ♪ ♪ >> hello, everyone. i'm emily compagno along with jason chaffetz, joey, leslie marshall, and tyrus. it is 5:00 in new york city, and this is "the five." we have a fox news alert. a verdict has finally been reached in the ghislaine maxwell trial. while we wait to get more details on that, we are going to take it around and get our thoughts on this really incredible case.
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ghislaine maxwell faced six counts in her federal trial in new york related to what prosecutors say worker efforts to groom and traffic underage girls to be sexually abused by her then close companion jeffrey epstein. she has pleaded not guilty to the six federal counts. sex trafficking of a minor, enticing a minor to travel to engage in criminal sexual activity, transporting a minor with the intent to engage in criminal sexual activity, and three counts of conspiracy. the charges all relate to testimony from four women who say that maxwell facilitated their sexual abuse and sometimes participated in it as well. more than a decade ago, as far back as 1994, when they were under 18. is 83 page jury instructions and plan, some of the more the mike women are more important and the others age at the time because of the specific allegations. ghislaine maxwell's defense bought the entire time to undermine the accuser's memories and motivations during
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cross-examination as well as through their largely unacceptable motion before the federal judge. they argued prosecutors were trying to scapegoat maxwell only because epstein, the sex offender and elusive financier, died before he could stand trial. if convicted on all of those six counts today, maxwell, age 60, could face up to 70 years in prison. let's get all my everyone's thoughts here in darting with you jason chaffetz. >> we don't know the verdict, but we are about to know the verdict. there were more than 100 women that came forward, and will be interesting to move forward. if there is not a conviction and certainly all six of the counts, i think the prosecutors will give a lot of criticism that they relied so heavily on just four out of more than 100 people that came forward. i know there were 24 witnesses overall throughout the ten day trial, but why focus on just the four when there were so many? that was the overwhelming case that they had against maxwell,
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and there will be, i think i'm a lot of criticism if they aren't able to secure conviction on all six counts, emily. >> that's a great point. that there is a lot of nuts and bolts and mechanics, especially with how far back these allegations go with what actually prosecutors could bring before a judge. so it might not be as cut and dry as what we see in the court of public opinion in someone's tilt or innocence, leslie. >> have to say i agree 100%. i agree 100% with what we said. we had 100 witnesses, they are focusing on four, something that you talked about, emily, which is essential as you know as an attorney, is the age. what was the age when this was taking place? i have to say i originally thought this was going to be a slam-dunk. hours ago, i got a bit nervous when i heard more defense when this testimony being asked for, being requested by the jury. we know the verdict, we don't know what that verdict is yet, but i have to agree with jason.
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i think there will be outrage if there isn't a convention on the six counts in light of what we have all known, we the people who aren't sitting in the courtroom, but we the people that get the information from reporters in the courtroom that are providing those details and from some of the women that have spoken up and from information and documentaries and news that is followed this before the trial began. so i would have to agree. as -- i could guess i can say this because i'm a talk show host, i am hoping for these women, that there is a guilty verdict. >> joey, there is no shortage of twists and turns in the federal trial, albeit not before the camera and not live. for example, two additional charges we know will be tried later. that is her accounts of perjury against ghislaine maxwell and also the defenses laughable motion to have their defense witnesses beyond names, be anonymous before the judge, that they sort of claims the same privilege that prosecutorial
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witnesses claim to protect their identities and here it seemed like there were some frankly clownish behavior that was engaged in by her defense that as my colleagues says here. all that matters really is what is provable in court. >> absolutely. one thing that kind of bothers me the most is this idea that her defense -- coming after our client because the real culprit here killed himself in prison and you don't have a chance to do that. we are coming after your client because her actions lead to a work were a part of, and the prosecution's case, vile acts towards young girls, towards little girls in my opinion. towards adolescent girls. and so the point they are being if she is found guilty, i hope not only the four brave women who got to testify, but also that i guess nearly 100 others, have an opportunity to feel like their voice was heard in the wrong things done to them, the public understands that and they have an opportunity to move forward. i think that is what is most important to me is a mic with a
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daughter of own, it's hard to hard for me to believe this woman is guilty, hard for me to believe negligence at best. things were happening in front of her. maybe not found guilty on participating in it, that is not enough for me. if these things are true, and i believe they are, and she is found guilty, i hope the other victims have an opportunity to feel vindicated as well. >> absolutely. and tyrus, i think despite the overwhelming or seemingly overwhelming amount of evidence that we have been treated to in the court of public opinion, would always matters is within that four corners of their defense fought vigorously to discredit some of the witnesses, and court, including jeffrey epstein's former house manager. but to joey's point, what matters, the heart of this trial, is what happened to those victims, and allegations of the severe sexual abuse across state lines that went on for literally decades, and we hope conceptually that true justice
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will be served and that that is the forest for the trees over the nuts and bolts. >> a couple of things, and i will be the devil's advocate here, you had 100 witnesses, and you are you losing four? i think that kind of plays into the hand of the defense attorneys because you are still going to make mention of -- out of this 100, we only of this. also, i don't think it hurts that she is a woman in the situation because i think if this was epstein, it would be a very different way of looking at this, it would be more outrage, more screaming and yelling about his actions. in those actions were deplorable, disgusting, and he was able to get away with it for decades. and because he had money and a smile, he was able to continue on these escapades. and more and more we are seeing as time goes on how many people were complicit. not just her, i think personally
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there was no way that she did not know what was going on. there is no way that she was not the one that smoothed it over and was the one that talked to them before and explain the rules and try to make them feel safer. 100%. she had to do those things. she was in a relationship with him. hugging each other an end love and supporting each other. but when it came to him and young girls, that is when she decided to go to the other room. absolutely not. there is a lot of things in these cases i look at it, i try to withhold my personal judgment of the verdict comes up because i think a lot of times we jump the gun and then we get a verdict and we want to scream and cry about it and we need to look at the facts. i think it is, but at the same time, i do see some holes where she could maybe get three of the six or possibly walk which is discussing to the families but you have to look at it for what it is. >> tyrus, susan, sorry for that
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pause. we have the verdict now. we have a guilty verdict on five of the six charges. on counts one, guilty. that is conspiracy to entice an individual under the age of 17 to travel in interstate commerce with intent to engage in illegal sexual activity. that was five years in prisons. count two, this is the not guilty. enticement of an individual under the age of 17 to travel with intent to engage in illegal sexual activity. state maximum five years. so guilty of conspiracy, not guilty of the enticement itself, and then counts three, four, five, and six are all guilty, conspiracy to transport individuals under the age of 17, minor, to travel in interstate commerce with intent to engage in illegal sexual activity, transportation of an individual under the age of 17 with intent to engage in illegal sexual activity, sex trafficking conspiracy, and sex trafficking of an individual under the age
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of 18. count six. that brings with it a maximum of 40 years in prison. ghislaine maxwell found guilty on five of her six federal charges tonight. five of the six means she could face a total of 65 years in prison. that is ghislaine maxwell on your screen right there. but tonight was found guilty by a federal jury on 5 of 6 counts, including transportation of an individual under the age of 17 with intent to engage in illegal sexual activity, and in sex trafficking conspiracy. jason chaffetz, your thoughts on this 5 of 6 guilty verdict return there. >> you know, the best buy leaf i have in the justice system is the jury, and the jury listen to it and they came to this conclusion and hallelujah. there are a lot of women who went through hell, and hopefully
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have some sense of justice. i don't think it will make up for what was done to her that jeffrey m sin and wetness wax will date is one of the most disgusting things that you can imagine for these young women. but i'm glad she is going to essentially spend the rest of her life in jail. and i hope that is a good hope for those that have suffered these types of injustices, that have been assaulted, whether by themselves or whatever it might be, that justice can prevail. it is hard for these women. i can't even imagine what it is like to come forward and have to testify. i hope the 100 or so that they didn't testify are able to speak or show the judge and talk to the judge in the sentencing phase if they want to come forward and talk about this. but there is also a lot more to the story. this guy didn't get prosecuted earlier and it seemed like he probably should have and there are of other people that were complicit and it's the federal meant his government is going to do the job come the need to go
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after those people as well. >> for more in this developing case, let's go to alexis mcadams, a report outside courthouse in new york city right now. alexis. >> emily, we have been waiting here for several days standing by for any developments -- she wanted them to stick around at least through 6:00 today due to major covert concerns. she wanted to move things along as quick as possible without pushing them too much. and they did come to a decision in the last 20 minutes or so as he read. guilty, ghislaine maxwell, on five is six counts here that coming out of the federal courthouse just behind the six to make moment ago. all guilty except for county which is enticing a minor to travel to engage in illegal acts which carry a minimum sentence of five years in prison. that was the charge that those jurors in that room even asked for a white board, markers, highlighters and they wetness the judge if he could clarify what enticement men on those charges. and this comes after about 40 hours of deliberation today on
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day six, that verdict finally coming out here for the judge telling the jurors that with the extra monocle spike in cubby cases in new york, she wanted things to move along, one of the jurors was going to have to go into core team which would disrupt the trial. the jury did have several questions a few notes that were sent out as well but -- they had asked 13 questions to the judge sending out those notes, asking for more testimony, asking to see me somewhere at the evidence. so a lot of us out here wondering if this would happen especially because they ended yesterday around 5:00 when she asked him to stay next or hour and say i think we're in a good spot, going to head home for the night. in the jurors still had a lot of questions even though today prosecutors telling us that she had groomed and traffic underage girls to be sexually abused by her former boyfriend, jeff epstein, and after the long holiday weekend, they came back asking for the testimony from all four accusers and wanted the judge once again to clarify the definition of enticement.
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the jurors were deliberating for hours but finally coming out and with some new people that were on channel as well talking about and legal experts saying as time continued to pass, they were saying this could be good for the defense because it looks like they were having a lot of questions still at this point. but that jury making the decision here after 40 hours of deliberations in manhattan inside of that federal courts. guilty, ghislaine maxwell on five to six charges. >> thank you for that wrap-up, and i wanted to circle back with you on one thing that you mentioned. so as the jury asked questions during their deliberative process, they kept asking questions, where are the transcripts that they asked for. what is of the memory as spirits that the defense brought in. famous psychological expert testimony witness has testified in every trial from koji sims into ted bundy different doors what was the asked for that transcript in the courtroom and among the pool of reporters that people expect a verdict that might not go the
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way that it went tonight. >> i think it depends on who you ask and how long people were in their watching things move along pier that was the first time they'd asked for tentative money and transcript of the defenses witness. i came today. as you mention, the expert said that when people go through trauma that they can sometimes remember things, even though they are very vivid, as completely different than really what happens. so when they did ask for that today, i'm sure many people in the courtroom and the people who have been watching this case are multicountry and all over the world thought how are things going to be play out here. big guilty right now, ghislaine maxwell coming coming out of that federal court just moments ago. her family members showing up. as we mentioned, it was silent out here. people waiting and then all the sudden we got word that there was a verdict, people were all over this place and that's where we saw the maxwell family as well. >> thank you so much for that. we are now going to bring in former justice department
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prosecutor jen who joins us. inc. you for joining us right now. tell us your thoughts on maxwell being guilty on five over six federal charges tonight. >> couple of things. the first is that even though this took a while, the jury had a lot of questions, it struck me as being a cohesive group. they were asking questions it. it sounded like they were very comfortable and methodically plowing through the evidence and hearing each other out. it was really no sign of them being deadlocked are struggling on the outside. i am not totally shocked that we have a verdict today. the other thing is, drives the sentencing in the federal system is not going to be the maximum penalty or even the dashed charges. it's going to be sentencing guideline. in just a quick cocktail napkin review of the guidelines, it is very quick to get them up to an offense level of 34, which translates to about 12 and a half to 15 and a half years of noncurable time as a guideline for these offenses. they could get higher than that.
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she is looking at a weighty sentence. a lot of fighting about these guidelines, but is going to be pretty inescapable and should carry a lot of time. >> humerus is not the right words, but when you talk about her facing 65 years, but -- that seems not a lot for the weights, the gravitas of the six federal charges that which you found guilty of that include enticing minors across state lines to engage in illegal criminal acts. do you think that that sentence would seem disappointing after the weight of these five guilty counts? >> guidelines are just the starting point, not the end point anymore like these to be in the old days. there is room for a judge to vary upwards, to go higher appearance one of the things that struck me that the trial and one of the things i think is important for the jury was that the enticement was not literally just enticement, persuasion, talking. the testimony of the women about
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her role in the defense included her sexually abusing them. so is a very active, very aggressive, very criminal level of culpability that miss maxwell had just been on the enticement. that is the type of thing that can aggravate the sentencing and allow the judge to go higher. but you fall into the trap of talking about maximum penalties as the starting point and a rarely is. could be 50 or 60 years paired >> jason chaffetz has a question for you. >> jin , have to be please getting five and six counts to get this to guilty, but what did you think the strategy by the prosecutors to only bring four of the victims. the actual victims themselves come it seems like a bit of a risky strategy, but may be given the verdict, prosecutors could say they made the right decision. >> it is always easy afterwards.
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to announce that we were the smartest people in the room. but i think it's a great question. i think there is a little bit of a turning point, a point of diminishing returns, and we had this issue with that trial too. how many victims are going to be allowed in. and the key is multiple victims are certainly self bolstering. they make the case a lot easier from the government when it is not simply one person giving a story like this. so for coats room among certainly seem to work well here. the other thing, when you get into dozens of witnesses testifying about similar incidents, there is room for inconsistencies. it may not be anything nefarious, and may just be that they have different memories, different abilities to perceive things, but even a blind squirrel starts finding a not when you get up to ten or 15 or 20 witnesses topping ohmic talking about the same thing. they will discover inconsistencies to argue reasonable doubt to the jury when you get that high number of witnesses. >> weave a statement of u.s. attorney on this verdict which
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reads a unanimous jury has found ghislaine maxwell l.t. of one of the worst crimes imaginable, facilitating and participating in the sexual abuse of children, crimes that she committed with her longtime partner and coconspirator, jeffrey epstein. the road to justice has been far too long, but today, just as has been done. i want to commend the bravery of the girls, now grown woman, who stepped out of the shadows and into the courtroom. their courage and willingness to face their abuser made this case and today's result possible. i also want to thank the career prosecutors of new york who embraced the victim's quest for justice and have worked tirelessly day in and day out to ensure that maxwell was held accountable for her crimes. this office will always stand with victims, will always all the facts where they lead, and we will always fight to ensure that no one, no matter how powerful or well-connected is above the law. the statement in the verdict.
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and what is interesting about that is that it reflects squarely on the culpability and accountability of ghislaine maxwell herself. she participated herself physically in the abuse. part of the insidious nature of the enticement and what was calculated within that. and that begs the larger question that jason brought up earlier, which was do you see any type of additional work to prosecute, to go after those others who were complicit, or do you see that the buck stops on her shoulders paired with the public be able to look forward to more being held accountable? >> that's a great question. and i don't know is the short answer. but i will tell you this. a lot of career prosecutors that i know that if specialized in child abuse or sex offense cases are very keen on going after the john's as well, as they call them, the men that participated in the acts with these young women or sometimes children.
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in the natural tendency for prosecutors is to keep going. and frankly, there is even a possibility of maxwell still cooperating. partly because she didn't testify and complicate things by perjuring herself. so there is still room for the investigation to roll forward to try to tie in to may be very high-profile individuals that hung out with epstein at island and have to seat -- maybe they been trying that, may be resign themselves to this being the end game paired there is certainly a high level of culpability from this maxwell but it is a shame if they from the possibility of pursuing other people too. >> do you have a question for jin. >> what i wanted to ask about not being a lawyer of any kind myself. relegated to interpret dating documentaries and know what we have this. the biggest question is you have a lot of high-profile
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individuals have been either outright accused like chris prince andrew or brian at the public eye on this. my question is, what sentencing compensates a 50 year sentence. she still have the opportunity to turn evidence and testify against others to reduce her sentence or does this guilty verdict solidify whatever that sentence becomes? >> that's a great question. there is still a mechanism under the federal rules to actually allow for reduction of sentences based on cooperation. federal rule of criminal procedure 35 and some offices use and more frequently than others. some offices might say she went to trial, we are done with this. but other times because she didn't testify, they might at least entertain having a proffer where they sit down and listen to her and see what you might be able to do in terms of moving an investigation forward. to legally, the mechanism is still there. it's a question of the prosecutors and u.s. attorney's office in the southern district of new york, whether they've artie had any proffers with her
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which we don't know, that were failed, if they are willing to listen or again if she is even willing to do it. a bunch of ifs, but practically, there's at least a possibility that at some point after her sentencing, she would be a government witness and would be looking at a potential for some sort of reduction in that sentence. >> jim, leslie has a question for you. >> hi, jim. two questions, jason asked my first about the victims, but secondly to the victims, as a victim of sex crimes, i always look at situations like this being a positive in making it easier for people in the future to come forward for those that feel that they are going to be victimized again or demonized by defenses, that the system will work and that it will be a waste of time. can you speak to that briefly. >> that's a great point. i handled as a prosecutor back in the day. handled sex offense cases not in a profile of this topic is, but you always had this dynamic of
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reluctance, sometimes compounded by cultural divides, language divides, intelligence issues, all sorts of things that make these very tough cases. and i to say that there is no such thing as perfect closure. these victims are still carrying scars that they will scary for the foul but there is something about the reversal of power that is a good thing, when the people sitting in the defendant's chair have to sweat out the powerful testimony of these long-victimized young women. it's a great moment. i hope it has that kind of universal effect. i don't know if there is any way to measure this, but it is a good message that the criminal justice system, for all of its flaws, for all of its imperfections, it can get it right along and it takes it to know that in the highest profile cases, that the victims were believed and supported these convictions, that's a good moment. >> a question from tyrus. >> how are you, jim. one of the things that popped my
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head, because i think the word conspiracy is really apropos because she conspired to set up these things is a willing participant and i think it was a slam-dunk for the prosecution. one of the things that does concern me in this new era of pandemics and covid effects, i keep hearing the judge was concerned about covid, was concerned about a breakout, was concerned about a juror. is there a leg for an appeal here saying the jury was rushed, that they would try to push something like that, i covid because the jury not to -- can you see something like this are to happen in our courtrooms? >> look, i think the appeal is going to be uphill. when it comes to managing the jury in the deliberations, were talking about an abuse of discretion standard, which means the trial judge has to really do something pretty bad to get reversed on appeal. but the timing of this is interesting in that she basically let them know i would rather you stay longer because
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covid is on the horizon, might have some problems with you, and you're going to have to sit through new year's eve, new year's day. all of a sudden you have a verdict. so it is going to make its way into the defense brief i would think, but that doesn't really give it enough legs necessarily win. so there is always an issue when it comes to things like jury selection and also the deliberations and decisions about whether or not the jury is sequestered. i think this could make its way into a brief, but i don't think it is going to be all that powerful. >> jim, think he was always for your amazing expertise. speak out good talking to you guys. >> let's bring former federal prosecutor brett pullman. joining us now. hi, brett. thank you so much. what are your topline thoughts? >> a couple of things. it is not surprising that they acquitted on the one. often there are jurors that go back and forth on one particular charge and have issues with it. but you need to keep one thing in mind about the federal system
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that really haven't mentioned much and that is you have to win on all counts or you lose on all counts. in the meaning is, if you get acquitted, you are still going to be sentence from the one that you are acquitted on. in the federal system, the prosecutors will now focus on everything that was done, and they will be able to sentence ms. maxwell on the acquitted conduct, the convicted conduct, and on those they didn't even charge. that is mind-boggling, that is something that is a dirty little secret about federal criminal cases. >> brats, part of a larger conversation we've been having is the culpability of those that engage in this pattern, the fact that it existed because there were a lot of people who were complicit, it existed because there were people with power, and there were those without. and after a lot of these sort of breaking open cases, the me too movement, the scandal, there were task forces that were
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convened by the federal judiciary that sort of explored and had the purpose of eradicating any like-minded circles. do you see there being a sort of formalized response after this case, after the guilty verdict on five of these six counts tonight for ghislaine maxwell, do you see the doj responded with some type a similar task force or similar formalized approach to try to eradicate these in the future? >> yes. we have seen the department of justice has become more and more political, and the concern that many of us has is that the department of heart foul's judgment is thrown out, based on the politics of the time of the particular target of an investigation. look what we still don't know whether charges are going to be brought on the laptop of hunter biden. we know it is being investigated in other states by u.s. attorneys, but we've heard nothing. to the public really wants to know if they're get back to
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bringing justice no matter who the defendant is and focusing on the victims. and in this case, i think it's a strong message that they are going to pursue these types of cases no matter how large no matter was involved. but i hope this isn't the end of this investigation appeared >> brett, tyrus has a question for you. >> thank you, brett. when you look at communities and you look at in this country and how we look at wealth and how we put those things on a table, what messages would you give to communities where we can start to let our kids no, especially our young women, that there are no pots of gold and no quick fixes. someone invites you someplace nice and going to pay you extra to do a job you normally wouldn't get paid, how do you go about making it to where it is more talked about at the dinner table where you see officers take the time to talk to people about these things. because this is great, but look how long this took. look at the totality of the
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people's lives were ruined while they continued this for decades. how do we get our young people, our communities, our parents and families to start paying attention to signs when the see these people coming into the light smiling with all signs of money and opportunity. >> i think you hit one of the big important things that my wife and i focus on. we have five children, we have two daughters. you worry about them. you worry about interactions in this world with social media and the immediacy of the internet, and you worry also, though, about this quest for fame and power and money, and it does produce predators. and we see them out there. i prosecuted the kidnapper of elizabeth smart, brian. i will always remember that there are predators, and we need to teach our children to be on their guard, to always be sensitive, and if something
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doesn't seem to feel right, it is probably not. speak out with a question for you from jason chaffetz, brett. >> you are probably best known for your prosecution of the elizabeth smart case where there was one victim, bowing to ask you what i was asking the other prosecutor earlier, jim tracy, which is as you look at this case, where their mistakes made by the prosecution or by the defense, and what about this question -- they got five of the six counts as guilty, so they are going to say they did everything right, but should they have brought forward more witnesses, was it risky to bring forward four of the more than 100 victims in this case? >> yeah, jason, it is surprising that they really only settled on the four. now, keep in mind, they may be looking at statue of limitation on the issue so there may be other factors so i want to cut them some slack, but typically you try to include as many of the victims that you can because you never know what is going to happen on the defense side, and it was efficient enough for them
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and maybe it was the expert that talked about the fallacy of memories, may be of some of the other efforts by the defense, but you never know. and it is one of those things where mistakes are so high it is really not worth gambling on. they did get five out of the six, i also know that if they get one out of the six, they will be able to sentence ms. maxwell on all of them. she is looking at the potential of the rest of her life in federal prison depending on how it goes in sentencing. >> brett, we've a statement from the attorney brad edwards who represented five dozen of maxwell-epstein victims. he said this is the right verdict. without ghislaine, he wouldn't have been a sexual predator without victims to perpetrate his crimes. she created the monster that so many people -- and finally delivered these people justice.
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i find interesting -- back to our conversation about this, the really insidious nature of the female that poses -- when two young girls supposed to be a type of safety for an older woman and here she isn't being the lure, being so much more than just a "honeypot" to actually enticing the young woman in the false sense of security. and then engaging in that sexual abuse here. by the words the attorney that he found her reprehensible conduct and that's now -- resting squarely on her shoulders, brett. >> reminds me of when i spoke to elizabeth smart about her ordeal, she was almost more upset and angry at wanda because she was another woman that she thought should have looked out for her. here it is that side of this crime that is so aggravating. and i think the victims in this
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case, they understand the role that ms. maxwell played, and without her, i think it is accurate that you don't have the types of muscles that occurred and it is a tragedy, but it is also is a reflection of how predators will use what they have available in order to go after some of these young women. >> and the predators include those awful females working at the behest. thank you for your expertise tonight. very valuable. you are watching live coverage of the aftermath of the ghislaine maxwell found guilty of five of the six federal charges against her in her efforts to groom and traffic underage girls. she was found guilty of five of the six federal counts, including sex trafficking of a minor, enticing a minor to travel to engage in criminal sexual activity, transporting a minor, and a counts conspiracy. let's bring back our reporter alexis mcadam standing outside the federal courthouse in new york city. alexis.
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>> emily, lots of activity outside the courtroom as we can see. who can walk out of the court house next. going maxwell found guilty of 5 of 6 federal charges. sex trafficking investigation went on for quite some time. a three-week trial here in manhattan and about 40 hours of deliberations. we are sure if were going to hear from the jury, the judge had been talking to those jurors, 12 jurors, six men and six women, here in new york, telling them that as this went on, she had major concerns about the rising covid cases here new york. she thought possibly those covid cases could disrupt the trial, but it ended tonight and did not have to go past day six. knoxville was facing six federal charges, including child sex trafficking and conspiracy charges. prosecute or said she groomed and traffic underage girls to be sexually abused by her former boyfriend, jeffrey epstein. this was not really a slam-dunk right away. these people when there as we said for several hours going
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back and forth, coming back from that long holiday break and then asking for a piece of white paper board, markers, pens, so they could go back to the six counts one by one. and the second count out of the six which she was not found guilty on, the only count, was counter to go. i was there when the jurors several questions about, sending out one of those notes asking the judge in this case to please clarify what enticement meant directed to that charge. maxwell's family has been here in the courtroom, they were here yesterday, walking outside after jury deliberations wrapped a little bit earlier than expected. talking to the media, even handing over -- we saw them back out here again and i'm sure it's going to be a lot different of a reaction than yesterday. during that more than two weeks of graphic testimony that we heard in court, heard from four woman who said they were underage when maxwell tricked them into be sexually abused by jeffrey epstein and that is so much of what we heard inside of that courtroom was really
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heartbreaking and these girls saying they were 14 years old when they're forced to reportedly be abused by jeffrey epstein inside of his home in florida. if maxwell, when she was convicted on 5 of 6 charges, she's facing up to 70 years knowing that she can get count two to be about 65 years. that she will be facing. she did plead not guilty to all of the six counts and this was just a long trial here and a lots going on and is going to be interesting to see noah plays out here after this. >> alexis, great reporting. johnny has a question for you. >> a looks like there is a pretty big crowd behind you. even bigger than the last time we heard from you. was there any sort of audible reactions when the verdict was read, people speaking, any victims perhaps out there, something like that? >> not yet, but will have to see that player. there has been people, though, that have been walking by and asking what is going on because earlier today it was like a pin drop out here. nobody rounds, just the media
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cars, people waiting and waiting, and was who i don't think were going to come today as i got down to around 5:00 when nate said they want to leave and people are asking now what is going on, what is this trial? and when they hear it is the ghislaine maxwell trial, people from all of the country, all over the world know about this trial, know about giraffes and in all these charges and on these big names that came up during this investigation, people saying hopefully this will bring justice to the victims who went through so many things. >> alexis, leslie marshall has a question for you now. >> hi, alexis. it is her saying you say a lot of people would say this is a victory but not a slam-dunk because that's i count is enticement that ms. maxwell was not found guilty. has the prosecution spoken about this, about their victory and specifically the second count not bringing that slam-dunk to their table? >> we are still waiting to hear just general reaction. we have had some statements that have come out. there is been people saying that
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they are glad with this verdict, and they still think more just as need to be done, more things need to be changed in general in the criminal justice system, but we are still waiting to hear exact reactions coming out of here in the federal courthouse in manhattan. there's a happy presence of people waiting to see anybody come out. there's also another exit as well which we know people are taken out, the jury and those -- the jurors, the 12 jurors, but coming out of here should be the lawyers and then going maxwell's family. have to see if anybody is willing to talk. >> alexis, we're getting reports there has been no date for sentencing ads. can you confirm? >> that is correct. that is what we are hearing. no date for sentencing just yet. talking -- in and out of the courtroom today, bob reporter who is in there as well was sending out some notes saying that maxwell appears to be --
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she poured herself some water into a paper cup. there really wasn't a big reaction. i think people were probably expecting to see her maybe put her hands on her head or look down. but there really wasn't much going on inside of the courtroom. but this is so different because covering the kyle rittenhouse case and seeing what happened in the kim potter trial, everybody was able to see what happened inside of that courtroom, and this a couple of sketches, you hear who from people who are in the courtroom and a lack of action. people have been watching it from all over the world and waiting to hear what was going to happen, but we haven't had eyes so much inside the courtroom like so many other cases since this is a federal trial. >> i have to say with that limited media exposure, she hasn't struck us as some type of colorful personality. she has been more of a stoic, reserved figure from what we have seen of her in this media engagement and interactions. leave a question for you from tyrus now.
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>> i was very curious about sentencing. i am assuming that she is going to remain in custody until sentencing. your gut feeling of how many weeks we are looking at for sentencing because there was the covid monster was mentioned in terms of slowing things down and possibly messing things up and your experience, how long do you think it is going to be until we see sentencing? >> we will have to see her and how it plays out. the judge definitely has said she wants to move things along and was careful and trying to pressure the jury to make a decision but in march of 2020, the same judge who was presiding over the maxwell case, one of her trials at that point, very serious trial as well, over to one of those jurors that got sick and had to communicate via zoom. a lot of concerns about that happening here, but in terms of sentencing, they are going to want to move things along as quickly as they can be moved along in federal court. >> alexis, quick final question. you mentioned that ghislaine maxwell's family was present during the presence of this trial enter two sisters especially where there every day and were vocal supporters of
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her, that they passed out pizza to the crowds outside. were they just passing it out to reporter pool? or were they passing is out -- tell us more about that. i've never heard that. >> it was interesting. i don't know if -- they been waiting so long for things to wrap on their own they went and got themselves a pizza and had a couple extra or what was going on, but they walked down yesterday and smiled and talked to a few people and said who is hungry? if you guys want pizza. and everyone is like do you think and trying to get their actions and they just, no, not going to say anything, but if you want pizza, they were handing out and took off. and today going to see what their actions to be, if they are going to want to talk, and if they are going to want to have any redirection at all. but it was definitely different. >> i will say. alexis, thank you so much. we will talk to you shortly. going to take it back to the panel here on "the five." leslie marshall, let's get your next thoughts here. >> on the pizza, it is
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interesting that you asked that, emily. i thought they were trying to bribe the reporters, to be honest. if you pizza, write something nice about my daughter, my sister. i hope that all of our reporters have more integrity than that, certainly. and i am very happy for the victims that justice has been served. i was concerned about the second count when the jury asked for that whiteboard, when they specifically asked for the definition of enticement, and then when they started to ask for some of the defense witnesses testimony. i was nervous that this wasn't going to be a slam-dunk. i was nervous that i might not even be five at e-cigs that were guilty. so i'm very happy that the system worked. the jury in my opinion made the right choice because i do think, as i alluded to any question earlier to gm, that this makes it easier for victims in the future to come forward, the people always say why are only t women report, why don't -- why
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do women take so long to come forward with allegations. not this verdict but other verdicts in the past have been why, so i'm happy for those victims and i'm happy for these victims and i hope their nightmares can end and sentencing can begin soon. >> jason, to leslie's point, president trump signed into susanna's act which had to do with communication between different federal and state agencies for the purpose of that communication for elevating in that context the murder of indigenous women but that same pattern of the power differential in the systemic abuse of young girls. my question to you is in your time and legislature, what would you say with the biggest roadblocks to accomplishing more legislation and more laws that could help sort of shed light and break wide open these webs of complicit, interstate,
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illegal sex trafficking, jason? >> i think one of the things we found -- and i was on the house judiciary committee -- one of the things we found is a whole set of prosecutors that were so timid and they're bringing forth cases that there were a lot of cases that a lot of people thought were maybe 50/50 but they were so reluctant to bring them to the jury. i think what we have seen in high-profile cases lately is that these cases, the juries get them right, they do figure this out. and we need more prosecutors to prosecute them for it i concur with leslie. i hope more victims can come forward. i hope these victims have at least a sense of some justice. but i have to tell you, there are a lot of people who have been watching from the sideline who do believe that it wasn't just her. and it wasn't just jeffrey epstein. there were a whole hoard of people that were taking advantage of these young women. those people need to be prosecuted. they should be shaking in their boots right now knowing that the
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federal government is going to come get them and prosecute them. if this is the end of the case, i think a lot of us will be very disappointed that they fell far short of those that should be prosecuted. >> back, joey, jason mentioned the timidity of prosecutors and i think that is part of the problem with the media, the eye of sauron the spotlights on certain issues that get button up and it's on to another issue that everyone is talking about. but it is really important for prosecutors and the doj, for legislators, to say committed and that things don't fall by the wayside, so that people who don't have voices are all of a sudden silence because the media has moved on. >> never goes away for the victims. never have gone away, didn't get shelved for 20 years and came back when the trial came. and they're a lot every single day. so i don't know how victims that weren't part of this trial feel, i don't know if they feel indicated or if they feel left out because the actual crimes committed against them hasn't
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gone to trial, but i will slowly that is. this is never going to go away for her either. it is the rest of her life. it is prison. with any luck. i hope she rots in jail and then she can rot in after that. you don't do these things to young girls and get it second chance in my opinion. you committed crimes that in sins that are unforgivable in my world. and so i'm glad there is a guilty verdict and i hope that there isn't really a predictive maximum sentence because of the way sentencing word, so if there's a year they contact on there, i hope they do. if nothing else, this solidifies her life in prison and maybe works as a catalyst to find out who else might have committed crimes for her to testify against them. and i don't care who it is. i don't care if it is a politician i like her when a heads, celebrity or royalty, if there is probable evidence that they committed these crimes come
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i hope they go to trial too. >> we've seen a lot of criminal justice reforms take place at the state and federal level, but here the sentencing enhancements remain the federal level which some of which will apply here. we know that sentencing guidelines, to joey's point, extends to the maximum but it will be up to the judge, allison, in this case to let me those sentences and she is facing up to 65 years in prison. >> i hope the judge goes for the jugular on this one. but i would like to make a statement. i am hoping when someone who conspires, turns a blind eye and her case, or even participated, but i hope all those guards in assistance out there, producers, managers, agents on the hook implicitly allowed their spoiled clients to get away with this type of behaviors for years and when all kinds of say i was just doing this and that, a bit we will start seeing them get arrested. maybe start seeing then having
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to be held responsible. you are a bodyguard and you are helping individuals hide underage girl and the hotel room or protecting them from the media, i hope we start seeing some of those individuals who kind of fit same description that she was start to get charges pressed against them too. because you know it? you're going to see a lot more whistles being blown earlier, more people doing the right thing when they have to be held accountable, and i'm hoping we see more i can about it, not just the perpetrators, but like the we was, but also the people around him, the assistance, the drivers, all those people around him that helped him keep his little secret for so long will see another aspect of life or see other entertainers, rich people, et cetera that you these type of things and is more prevalent then you can possibly imagine start to be held accountable. i'm hoping this is step in the right direction. >> outside. let's bring in now ted williams, former d.c. homicide and trial attorney in fox news
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contributor. thank you so much for joining us and this breaking news evening. what are your thoughts on ghislaine maxwell being found guilty of five of the six federal charges tonight? >> let me just say that ghislaine maxwell was a pimp. call her for what she was she was pimping these young innocent girls. jeffrey epstein who escaped by killing himself in jail. justice was done. what we saw here today, ladies and gentlemen, we saw the working of the criminal justice system, we saw how a jury methodically went over the evidence and as a result of going over the evidence, they came back and they convicted
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this pimp on five of the six counts against her. and what i would love to have is that jeffrey epstein would be here to actually face trial. he took the easy way out. and what i am saying simply is, and as tyrus just said, i hope that they threw the book at her. what we found unfortunately were rich people, people who could afford just about anything, going out, using this women, ghislaine maxwell, as a pimp to get and pursue these young, innocent girls. all for the appetite of a sexual predator. so the jury, i take my hat off to you all. you all did the right and proper thing. you look at the evidence, you took your time to go through the
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evidence, and you came up with these guilty counts, and i am happy. i think america can say that justice was done and night for these poor young women. >> made a statement earlier from attorney brad edwards represented five dozen of the ghislaine maxwell-jeffrey epstein victims and he said exactly what you are saying. he said this is the right verdict. without her, jeffrey just would have been a sexual predator without victims on which to perpetrate his sick crimes. he said she created the monster that heard so many people in this jury finally delivered these victims justice. leslie marshall has a question for you. >> in your professional experience, you talked about her being a pimp. i agree wholeheartedly. i also agree with rot in hell as
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well. how quickly will be continued because she the pimp can to the salon. she helped jeffrey epstein by going out and gathering trust of these young girls, that wolf in sheep's closing that you was, but there were drivers, servants if you will that work in his home, and people who flew in his home, many people who saw what was going on and kept cashing their paychecks, and i feel those people are just as guilty as tyrus said. how likely that this net goes larger and wider to get more, and if possible, everyone involved? >> you know, there is always that possibility, because what will happen now in some stage here of ghislaine maxwell will be sentenced, and at that stage, she may very well be able to go into the prosecutor's and make a deal with them for a reduction in that sentence by helping to bring the rich and the powerful
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as well as the individuals that you said, the drivers or people who saw what was going on, and turning a blind eye to innocent young kids -- kids -- this is what we are talking about. let's not forget this. we are talking about young girls. and the thing about her as well, only four testified and only four were involved in this trial. there are many others out there, and i am hoping that as a result of what we have seen here, this guilty verdict, that those individuals will come forward, help prosecutors to bring some of these deviant individuals to justice. >> ted williams, thank you so much. former d.c. homicide detective and attorney. your insight was valuable as always. so grateful for you. >> my pleasure. >> let's bring in now our own
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judge jeanine pirro. judge, what are your thoughts on this breaking news evening? >> my first thoughts have to do with the victims in this case. the survivors i should call them. testifying in a criminal case and then having a jury believe you is one of the most healthy, therapeutic, and cathartic things that can happen to a victim of a sex crime, especially the women who have tried to find justice for decades against these animals. because that is what they are. they are animals. when you are a predator and you are a and you are enticing young women were at least entering into a conspiracy to transport them and to commit sex trafficking of minors, then you are no better than an animal. this is a kind of case that not only sends a message but what is most important right now is sitting down the united states attorney trying to figure out
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who are the other men who these young girls who were forced to service. and that is the next case and that is the next prong. let me say one thing. i was very vocal about this a while ago. alexander acosta was the united states attorney in the southern district of florida who cooked the case against jeffrey epstein away from him when the local d.a. had the case and they had 13 young women willing to testify in the feds came in and took the case and jeffrey epstein got away with it. it would have ended there but it didn't because of politics. one thing now is politics, big money, and now finally it is coming crashing down. and that is what we need to recognize. there is a tower in criminal -- power in criminal justice, power and women coming forward and being bullied, and power in our culture when we take these animals down. >> amen. judge, jason chaffetz is a
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question for you now. >> judge, i appreciate you bringing up wap and a photo because this case was going to be finally prosecuted and that you are actually right and i hope you expose that even more. on the civil side, what can these women do at this point, it now that she has been convicted, as she opened up to the civil side of things, and there are assets to go get from both jeffrey epstein and ms. maxwell? >> i'm sure this woman is well healed. once you prove a case yard, you have already satisfied the needs to prove a case, a civil case by a preponderance of the evidence. so, the survivors that i want to call them now in these cases are now in a good position to get whatever money they are able to identify and have access to.
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but, let me make no mistake between epstein and talking abof millions of dollars and they are somewhere. for some reason these two got away with everything. they were in other countries. there is all kinds of connections here. it's time to take them down. we can start in the u.k. and we can go all over the united states. but it's got to be done and the feds are now in a position to do it. >> emily: judge, thank you so much for excellent insight as always. >> judge jeanine: it was a good night. take care, guys. >> emily: you too. >> tyrus: happy new year, judge. >> emily: happy new year. you have been watching "the five" coverage breaking news ghislaine maxwell's verdict returned in federal court case. she was found it's of five of six charges against her including sex trafficking of a minor and transporting a minor with the intent to engage in criminal sexual activity.
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in addition to conspiracy. it was a pretty crazy night tonight on "the five," you guys. but we have given you amazing insight and amazing from our panel of experts. leslie, marshall, and johnny joey jones. that's it for us. ghislaine maxwell found guilty of five of six charges. stay with us here on fox news for all updats ♪ >> bret: good evening. i'm bret baier tonight the verdict is n the ghislaine maxwell sex trafficking trial. maxwell was found guilty of five of six federal charges against her. the jury concluding the british socialite to teenage girls to be sexually assaulted. alexia is outside the courthouse. >> good evening, bret. that's right. you could hear a pin drop all day as we waited for that verdict in the ghislaine maxwell sex trafficking t

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