tv Outnumbered FOX News November 24, 2021 9:00am-10:00am PST
>> fox news alert as the tragedy surrounding the christmas parade massacre gross. a child now among the data. raising the number of killed 26. meantime, darrell brooks added to his very long rap sheet with five new intentional homicide charges as the judge addressed the controversial issue of bail. watch. >> i know that is an extraordinarily high bail. it is warranted here and i am setting cash bail at $5 million.
>> kayleigh: this is outnumbered and i'm kayleigh mcenany. here is julie banderas and lauren simonetti here for the very first time. fox nation hose, tomi lahren, and politics and media calmness and fox news contributor, joe concha. jackson sparks is the first child to die. he was amongst the injured it after darrell brooks rimmed his suv to the crowd prayed gross. $5 million bail before his release. a far cry from what happened days ago. that is when he was released on $1,000 bail. something that is outraging locals. listen to what it will fox news digital. >> something needs to change. >> there was a mistake done. definitely. >> there is no reason somebody should be that lower that series of crime felonies committed.
>> people get higher charges. >> kayleigh: $5 million bail. people saying there should be no bail at all. what is constant is that they have to have bail. god for bed, what if this guy posts bail. it's inconceivable. he could be blessed out and granted he would not be able to present a weaponry vehicle, but it's inconceivable to think that he could rock the street. >> lauren: and that's what people are saying. they could crowd source is bail and some we could come up with the $5 million. i heard the d.a. say that i knew something like that could happen when we are changing the laws and making it easier and more favorable for criminals to get away with things like this. did he imagine that this would happen? an 11-year-old girl begging the doctors to please glue me back
together so she could spend thanksgiving in the holidays breath her family. an 8-year-old boy dead. so many political systems and policies are protecting the criminals and not the people we are supposed to protect. this is a career criminal from the moment he was in an adult. wanted for crimes and 3 states. >> kayleigh: to lauren's point about left-wing policies causing this, you can argue that this is a left-wing d.a. we see darrell brooks out on $1,000 bail days before the attack and the d.a. says we are launching an internal investigation. it was too low, the bail. but earlier this year, darrell brooks was out on hundred dollars bail. he says they should not of happened, but it is happened more than once with one defendant who went out to wreak havoc upon waukesha, wisconsin. >> tomi: and it's not just him which is the most concerning part on our streets that are already lawless paired this was
not an oversight and some accid. this is happening across the nation especially in places that are run by democrats that believe in the notion of mass criminal justice reform which is coddling and cashless bail. we have those issues immersing it in california with the shoplifters. people feel that they can get away with whatever they want and they can commit crimes and re-commit crimes because that is the culture we have fostered in this country under democrat rule. unfortunately, some republicans have tagged along with it. we need to take a look at our policies and take a litter d.a.'s first and foremost. that's going to be a big issue. we talked about this yesterday. for those that weren't watching, there has been a misnomer of criminal justice reform for your people want to see people shorter prison sentences and have second chances and be rehabilitated. great and wonderful things. in practice, the criminal justice reforms end up with
things that we saw wisconsin. time to reevaluate what we mean by criminal justice reform. >> kayleigh: this passage stuck out to me and it was from an officer that was an eyewitness to this. it said that he observed the driver presumed to be darrell brooks looking straight ahead directly at him and it appeared he had no emotion on his face as he committed this atrocity. you know it's an atrocity, but he's a ledge person. as he got closer to the parade, speed was increasing. it was clear to the officer that this was an intentional act of strike and hurt as many people as possible. >> julie: and what's concerning to me is that the fax acumen of the case of the very beginning was that he was fleeing a knife fight. he almost ran over a fish child and she had a black eye. the fact that he was out on $1,000 bail break before the
synapse $5 million. first of all, there shouldn't be bail. wisconsin does not have a death penalty come unfortunately in this case. he said that he did not know he drove into the parade at first. of course he knew. and then there was social media post that has since been taken down that he put up there. if you've read about this we are he talked about running down white people. we just got done listening to all of these people called kyle rittenhouse a white racist, but now you have an african-american posting about killing white people and wondering where the outrages. i'm watching other local cable news outlets and we talk about the story. why is that? it's the opposite question rick the other way around question at the bail laws in this country are exactly the reason why. a das head should roll on this. there should be penalties against those making the laws
that's making it okay for criminals or groups to walk back on the streets ever again. he should have been behind bars. >> kayleigh: and wears a coverage of his violence on social media? spilled a lot of people don't know about this. it was up, down, now no one's talking about it. i wonder why. >> kayleigh: julie makes so many great points but tucker carlson brought this up. julie says that the media was reporting that he was fleeing a knife fight and tucker carlson gets to the root of this reporting. other news organizations have another explanation. it turns out they told us that he was fleeing from a knife fight and implication was that he got spooked and drove through the parade by accident. tucker writes the question remain why did it darrell brooks commit mass murder? the media does not seem interested in finding out. >> joe: he increased his plate stomach speed as per the police. where can a man kill innocent.
grandmothers, children, and 8-year-old. we were at a halloween parade not too long ago and the last thing she would be thinking is that i'm about to get struck by behind by a truck and lose my life. it's amazing that any kind of bail was set for him at any time. to julie's point, you watch the other cable news networks and there is some coverage of the story, story, bold you're not seeing are the panels. the panels, brady bunch panels, the outrage that we saw during the rittenhouse coverage. it's only a fraction of that in "the new york times," "washington post," and other major outlets. despite there being more deaths in this including the death of a child and death of grandmothers. thousands overall are still in the hospital right now. the narrative is being largely -- it does not fit what some folks would like in a because perhaps of the race of the suspect. it shows how broken our media is. >> julie: several children are
in critical condition. his prose-year-old brother has a fractured skull. >> kayleigh: if we could put up the pictures of the victims, i want to read their names are second and come to you. tamera durand, 52 years old. wilhelm house belk, 81 years old. jane coolidge, liana owen, 71, virginia sorenson, 79, and then there is 8-year-old jackson sparks. there was a social media that went out from there church that said please note that we appreciate the judgment as outpouring of support for their family. they appreciate, ask for privacy at the time. tucker, his brother, continues to heal. there's wee little boys on the care of. >> julie: when he got the word that jackson sparks had died, and 8-year-old boy being the sixth victim when he started weeping in court.
another example. when kyle rittenhouse was weeping in court, everybody called it crocodile tears. i've not heard one person on the other networks criticized his monster for weeping in court after an 8-year-old died. the defense attorney giving and sympathy on top of it is absolutely sickening. again, i blame the lawmakers. he should not have been out. this was -- it would have been avoidable. 1000%. >> kayleigh: but he showed no emotion according to the officer. >> julie: swerving and trying to hit as many people as he could at 25 miles an hour. that's intent. my hope is that the charges stick and there is no more. there is intent behind this. it was a plain assassination. >> kayleigh: and darrell burke went to someone's house and ate a sandwich. president biden is spending thanksgiving it a billionaires mansion in nantucket. the message across the country
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>> president biden: grocery stores are well-stocked with turkeys and everything you need for thanksgiving. >> kayleigh: rest easy. that was president biden claiming the supply chain crisis that is kept store shelves empty for weeks will not impact thanks even dinner. it came before the president jetted off to nantucket to spend thanksgiving in a $30 million estate. when asked about the optics of the present spending thanksgiving at a swanky mansion while many families are feeling the strain of higher prices, white house press secretary jen psaki danced around the question. >> what message does it spend to middle-class americans that president biden says he's trying
to help that they are struggling to cover the cost of the most expensive thanksgiving ever that the president is going to take a few days off at a billionaires townhome in nantucket. >> any increase in prices is something that the president is concerned about. i want to be clear that there are an abundance of turkeys available. they are about $1 more for 20-pound bird which is a huge bird if you're feeling a big family. >> kayleigh: when pressed on the optics, she added that the president will continue to work while at the estate. lauren, president biden has a message for us. let's roll the tape. >> president biden: america has a lot to be proud of. we are experiencing the second strongest economic you come ready in the world. our economy is bigger and their families have more money in the pockets than they did in the pandemic. america is the only major economy while they can say that. >> kayleigh: would think he is talking about the trump economy from two years ago.
77% telling yahoo that inflation is affecting themselves and 57% blaming biden. the american people are not buying it. >> lauren: he campaign is being scranton joe of the middle class as the middle class is being squeezed right now. the prices up by $1. yes, $1 per pound. senator warren who has the ear of the president wrote a letter to the department of justice and said it go after purdue and tyson foods on the big poultry producers. go after them for any anticompetitive behavior. they line their pockets because they are swimming in profits. no, the supply chain is a mess because of policies and because of the pandemic. that is why this is happening and that's why thanksgiving dinners costing more. as for his tone, it was optimistic. it should be optimistic because we are ahead of the holiday. you can't ignore the fact that he did not take questions that
americans are really struggling with. >> kayleigh: what's interesting is elizabeth warren going after big businesses. there is reporting that biden is considering blaming big businesses. they tried winning american and it did not work. >> lauren: it will backfire. they can't do that. and the walmart in the target that he's using right now i'm begging to unplug the supply chain to get these off of the ports. >> kayleigh: jen psaki is saying turkeys only $1 more and biden assange rest easy. it reminds me what they're saying round fourth of july. snarky and not funny tweet where they were slammed for this. they said are you planning a cut this year kush might catch up on the news. according to the farm bureau, the cost of fourth of july is down from last year. it's a fact you must hear. it goes on and on. it went down $0.18. >> julie: it was a joke. and it's also a joke that we can't get answers from the white house. jen psaki is in denial that inflation exists because she
likes to tell that the economy is so strong. that is a double-edged sword. how strong is your economy when people are paying double what they were a year ago for a lot of regular items? when he doesn't answer reporters questions, that think readily frustrating as a journalist. as former press secretary, first of all, jen psaki's face, as i was mentioning to earlier, every time peter doocy asks the question is so disrespectful. she doesn't even look at him. when you had 40 people in the room asking tough questions, she has one. when finishing remarked, biden ignored reporters questions. one actually played with him saying when will you answer our questions, sir? who's preventing them from answering questions question is it him or her or his handlers and we don't want you to answer questions because people are going to like the answer. we need to the answer. we need transference he.
>> kayleigh: true. let me correct myself. the verbs used on $0.16. i'm giving the white house more credit than they deserve. not $0.18. we would tape of this let's watch it. >> president biden: i'm heading to a food kitchen to serve meals right now. thank you for your time and effort. speaker president biden's back. it's an image i'm seeing too much of. >> joe: and jen psaki has the audacity to say that the president takes questions from the press all the time. he takes 20-30 questions a week. one time, at band camp. [laughter] >> kayleigh: best impersonation hands-down. >> joe: do the math. go back and look at transcript and do the interviews.
he does not do 20 have been 30 questions a week. let's call it what it is. it's a lie. nothing says tone-deaf like a president going to the sprawling estate of a private equity billionaire over thanksgiving we can. aoc and elizabeth warren, they're going to love that. it is so patently out of touched. but blowing off the press, it shows the president does not seem to care and it's not just about gas prices which will talk about tibet. it's a for the people are buying on thanksgiving but home heating. that is going to become a big issue that you're going to hear about a lot more. that is expected to rise if the percent this winter. if you think the poll numbers are bad now, went to lower income folks need to make a choice between that gas. that's are going to see that 36% will look like a great day by what we will see and february or march. >> kayleigh: never to be outdone paired we need to send you over to s an outlet that impression. that was something else.
what do you of the mansion is stomach biden is staying at for thanksgiving? before i don't think most americans care where he's goingo be for thanksgiving. we had a former president was also quite wealthy and we didn't care about that. we don't care if he goes golfing thing has nice thanks. what we care about is if he's providing for the american people and putting america and americans first. our former president did every day. he put those forgotten americans and he shone a light on them. those the people i most worried about. not just this holiday season, but moving for threat the administration. people in south dakota where i'm from. people that are too proud to take money from the government, take food stamps, take hand out, but are noticing price increases. especially the heating. i come from police in south dakota where it's very cold in the winter. there are people that are going be struggling and will not accept outside help and assistance because of too proud.
those of the forgotten americans and the backbones. also's back but are steering us down the barrel of vaccine mandates as well. at every turn, this administration is pinching the american people. biden will not answer it and go on vacation again. >> kayleigh: and he says rest easy to those forgotten americans. were sure he will be resting easy at $30 million mansion. happy thanksgiving. coming up, a democrat city is rocked by a series of brazen robberies of some high-end stores. when i woke experts now cautioning against calling it looting. is struggling to manage your type 2 diabetes knocking you out of your zone? lowering your a1c with once-weekly ozempic® can help you get back in it. oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! my zone... lowering my a1c, cv risk,
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nine people with felonies over incidences of pretty high-end stores. the democrat led city is now working to come back the growing crime spree by limiting car access to shopping districts and also using a protective barrier to try and secure the luxury shopping center. local say it looks more like a war zone. all of this comes on the heels of other brazen robberies throughout the state. a woke professor is cautioning against calling these incidents looting. looting is a term that we use when people of color or urban dwellers are doing something. we don't tend to use those terms for other people when they do the exact same thing. looting is looting. looting is breaking into a store and grabbing everything you can and dashing. what other definition is there to looting? are we that ridiculous now that we are defining what looting is
based on the color of your skin? >> joe: it's looting. it is looting it's looting. i will repeat that over and over again until heads explode. who was a prominent congressperson who represents san francisco again? the nancy kerrigan? nancy drew? nancy pelosi. >> julie: who just bought attorney $5 million mansion. >> joe: did she really? >> joe: she's about to enter in true retirement. $25 million mansion. do think she brings the fridge and freezer with it? she has never held accountable. london breed who -- and never trust anybody was named after a city. whether naming stomach playing cards or electing them. there never held accountable in their own cities. best buy, their shores are down
20% since the chain cited losses from organized thet particularly in san francisco. the ceo saying that workers will quit and this is a real issue that hurts and scares people. mostly people protested far as our media is concerned. i want to see the outrage and i want to see the real editorial saying this is unacceptable in the country and it needs to stop. we don't seem to see it. >> julie: high-level search of mind within the nypd says that's. when did it become okay to commit a crime? there needs to be more emphasis on it. make arrests. their police officers at sit with her arms folded as people , filling up garbage bags, and walking out. police officers have no power to make the arrests because of democratic our makers. >> kayleigh: and they get out on bail with $500.
you hear about that often. i asked on monday, how does this happen question rick 80 people organized with equipment. the mayor says that social media is at the epicenter of all the planning which is fascinating to think. he will not say whether was facebook, twitter, instagram, i don't know. 80 people coordinating on social media with equipment and looting. let's not worry about nomenclature, which were about stopping it. spoon and my nypd source says this is the beginning. he's absolutely right. if we don't fix a problem with law enforcement in the country soon, it may not be fixable. outlining the fact that police work is ugly. not because police wanted to be but it's because what it police deal with everyday. have a tape broken down into tens of seconds and monday morning quarterback. we would all be a society bad people. the cops are not allowed to do their job.
if they do, their racial profiling or overusing their power. their power is to protect us as law-abiding citizens and take the criminals to jail. they don't have the power to do that. >> tomi: it's a big part of the problem especially in places like california. the officers are demoralized. they have to look at the race of the suspect did a site's are going to make an action because they don't want to be labeled racist if that person happens to be of color. we went through an entire summer 2020 where we called things like that just us. we like and that reparations. people could steal, luke, riot, and it's okay because of the deaths of george floyd's and others. we're gonna spend a long time correcting that mistake. but as we talked about what darrell brooks brooks, it's also the policies in places like california where they have climbed the classification and they have misdemeanors. criminals are emboldened and law enforcement officers are
strapped. there are demoralized defunded. there is lawlessness sweeping the nation and it will be sold until you change your leaders. >> julie: look at new york city. that's a perfect example of what is happened in the city led by democratic mayor de blasio during the pandemic. he destroyed us. before and because of the vaccine mandates here in new york city, a lot of police officers are saying that enough is enough. they're moving. >> julie: and the retiring early. and it seems to be at so many systems are protecting the criminals and not the people. in california, they produced shop leap thing to millimeter. they're going into expensive stores like neiman marcus but also pharmacies that are having to close down right now. >> julie: vita administration is tapping into reserves as gas-x prices surge.
>> kayleigh: analysts predict that 53 million people will hit the road this thanksgiving week nearing prepandemic levels. this even as gas prices surge to the highest level in years. the biden administration announced it is releasing 50 million barrels of oil from petroleum reserves to help alleviate the problem. is that enough question rick don't ask jennifer granholm. here she is after being questions about it. >> there are serious about this. you know how many barrels of oil the u.s. consumes per day? because i don't have that number. >> kayleigh: the energy
secretary has no clue how many barrels of gas of oil we have a date in the country paired flashback to two weeks ago, another not so flattering sound bite from the energy secretary. viggo what is the grand old plan to increase oil production in america? >> that's hilarious. what that i had the magic wand on this. >> kayleigh: wow. is this effective messaging? >> joe: the white house in general and all of the president's men and women, they have a messaging problem in general produce on the energy secretary they're laughing at kamala harris lake levels at a very basic question from a bloomberg anchor. and she says we are taking very seriously before it not knowing many barrels of oil consumes. a very basic question that the energy secretary should know or be prepped for particularly after what happened with the strategic reserve yesterday. but look at ron klain, the bright house staff of staff who
says that it is a rich person's problem. jen psaki saying that supply chain as people are going to get the troubles by christmas. they say that spending will build inflation and it is found to be deadened by politifact. the secretary blaming trump for the crisis. i could go on and on. it hurts their polling because optics matter. sound bites matter as you well know. >> kayleigh: and some of those sound bites will be in g.o.p. ads come november. and then they pull from the strategic petroleum reserve which is supposed to be for reserve stomach emergencies. "the wall street journal" pointing out that crude prices rose after the biden administration announced that the u.s. and other countries would tap it petroleum reserves.
sorry, markets note that political gesture will not fix the public by certain age and could. >> tomi: it's a blip on the waiter to make radar. when you take into account how many barrels americans use and in places where i'm from her people drive trucks and the use a lot of gas and they also needo heat their home. they don't shut down pipelines and you don't threaten to shut down more pipelines. you don't make the u.s. not a net exporter as we were under the trump administration. all those things when you bow to the climate change gods and you have this globalist climate change genera, that's when we change. everything is okay because we are saving the planet. it may be tough and he still have liberals and need to drive and liberals that need to heat their home. we all use energy, folks. let's keep in mind the green energy that the democrats entry harker's love so much, that they take fossil fuels to create that
infrastructure. at all comes back to poor management. >> kayleigh: members like joe manchin with harsh words. what struck inflation and the lack of a comprehensive policy poses a clear and present threat to america's economy and energy security that can no longer be ignored. lauren, this is from a democrat. question how many barrels a day does the u.s. use, the answers upward of 18 million. tapping for 50 million coverage not even three days. that is an attempt to make it look like they're doing something to bring the costs down. it doesn't fix the problem. it has to be a policy change. we all want the air to be cleaner and the water to be cleaner. we do. if the climate initiative by the white house, after going to hold to it, they need to warn us of
the consequences of it a little bit better. it feels like it was slowly building and then all of a sudden, bam, gas prices were $2 and change last year. now they are $3.40 a gallon to fill up. it is $20 more every time he filled the gas tank and we were not worried about that. at least it didn't feel like we were. >> kayleigh: but joe biden found a solution. go buy an electric vehicle like the hummer he was driving that was over over $100,000. >> julie: for them to say that inflation is only affecting the rich are such a right to joke and it's laughable but also sad. the idea that the electric car is the solution, it's not affordable. it's a luxury. for the public and middle class, they can't afford luxuries. they can barely afford to fill up their gas tanks or buy a turkey's we are thanksgiving meals are up 14%. they think we're going to go through the winter and not
notice our heating prices as tommy mentioned which is a great point. and now comes to midterm elections. wait and watch. joe made a great point it was well about watching the poll numbers go down after the heating season and the winter season. watch the democrats scrambling for their seats. >> kayleigh: it's amazing. the six-figure hummer is the answer. coming up, nasa launching ape mission being compared to the 1998 movie armageddon. what that's all about coming next. as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪
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we are on verdict watch in the speech of anyone killing trial and all of that coming up 11 american reports the day before reports. to to giving. join us at the top of the hour. >> julie: 1998 armageddon is about to get all too real. nasa launching a spacecraft that will intentionally crash into an asteroid. unlike the movie, this is only a test. we are prepared in the event that an asteroid ever does threaten the earth.
>> what we are trying to learn is how to detect a threat that would commend. rest assured that rock is not a threat and it will not be a threat after. >> julie: dart will slam into the target asteroid at 15,000 miles an hour. it is going to be smashing into this asteroid at 15,000 miles per hour. this is incredible. it is over $300 million to come up with this plan, the space plane. what you think? >> kayleigh: it's amazing ingenuity. so impressive to read on what these guys are doing. there will be a camera, i believe, so maybe we will get footage of this. currently, viewers, there are no collision course asteroids out there directly hitting earth. there are near earth once. i did like what one person run
on foxnews.com. "20/20 two is about to collide. the same year that the democrats crash in the midterms." the things that they do is incredible but the money they sr potential asteroids that are not heading toward earth. is this the right time for us to see the money being spent? >> lauren: do you remember the meteor that crashed into russia? it's a rare, it's scary. do you need money to justify that? arguably. the department of defense created a task force to identify ufos since 2004. there been 144 confirmed sightings since they started that investigation back in '04. space is real, it's huge, it's scary, and we are investing and were smart and getting up there and we are trying to crash asteroids over the potential he had us. >> julie: which we should.
joe, when i was reading a story what came to mind is a missile defense system. that something i would like to know we are testing and i don't hear about that. i'm much more concerned about missiles coming over from north korea, for example, and knowing our missile defense system is prepared to protect our country. that seems to be money well spent. >> joe: or drones being used to deliver weapons as we saw it recently in iraq not long ago. a few things about armageddon. i'll be quick. we just elevated her 23rd anniversary this summer. bruce willis plays a southern oil driller and the accent is there for the first hour of the movie and then he sits on john mclean and going back to that character. we never saw much of liv tyler after that. i thought she would be bigger. go figure. go to nasa to keep a safe. >> julie: doesn't excite you little? >> tomi: i have to say that we can figure out how to knock asteroids out of the sky, but we can't secure a southern border.
if we could do that, maybe we could keep americans safe down south, but that remains to be seen. go nasa. >> julie: coming up, few people have ever seen the wreckage from the titanic ends its discovery back in 1985. next year, you could be one of the handful that do and it like the ships first and final voyage, it won't be cheap. ♪ ♪ learning is hard work. hard work requires character. learning begins in faith. it must move upwards toward the highest thing, unseen at the beginning - god. and freedom is essential to learning. its principles must be studied and defended. learning, character, faith, and freedom: these are the inseparable purposes of hillsdale college.
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titanic which takes people all below the surface of the north atlantic. it won't be cheap. running you $250,000. trey gowdy mentioned leo. leo dicaprio yesterday. every commercial break. julie gets a story in the rundown. >> proudly out loud saying i'm in love with leonardo. if jack was at the bottom of that 12,000-foot sea floor i would pay the $250,000 if i had it. if it was jack. if i could save jack can throw rows down there than i would consider spending it. >> would you pay the quarter million dollars? >> i think i would. i remember being in high school and i saw the day it came out and i went back the next day and the titanic sunk on my birthday, although i'm younger.
i was resonated with me ever since. it's my favorite movie. so flew people -- so few people have gone down to see the titanic. yes, if i had a quarter million dollars i would be one of them and i think i would do this before spending the same amount of cash to go to outer space. >> that's a good question, would you pay to see that titanic or would you rather take a multimillion dollar trip to space? >> tomi: i think i would save the money. there's a beautiful titanic exhibit in las vegas at the luxor. if you don't have that kind of cash and you want to save a little money for i don't know gas or thanksgiving turkey, just go to las vegas, go to that exhibit. it's beautiful. for even cheaper come you can watch the titanic. >> first-class tickets on the actual titanic was $400. this is slightly more. i'm glad there wasn't some sort of sequel or prequel to the 1997
classic. the winslet girl should've gotten off that door and may be taken. julie dicaprio, that sounds good. >> we would have the same initials. >> nobody wants a sequel more than julie banderas. >> i want to be rose. >> thanks to everyone. here is "america reports." happy thanksgiving. >> sandra: fox news alert. chilling new details are emerging in the waukesha christmas parade attack. alleging the suspect showed no emotion as he intentionally ran down that crowd, even driving in a zigzag pattern, we are told, to hit as many people as possible. hello, everyone. welcome. i'm sandra smith in new york. >> trace: hello to you. good day. i'm trace gallagher in los angeles and for john roberts. it's a far cry from initial reports h