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tv   The Faulkner Focus  FOX News  November 10, 2021 8:00am-9:00am PST

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>> the orange box by your feet you referred to as the pelican box. >> yes. >> do you have that before the 25th? >> was it stuffed with things you had bought and brought? >> yes. >> and do you go with that every day or is that because of the situation? >> it was in the trunk of my car. >> the fanny pack, what's the situation with that? >> it was my work bag. i brought it to work with me and put it under my lifeguard book. >> it had first-aid supplies? >> yes. >> after the meeting here at 63rd and sheridan road at car source three what happened? >> after the photograph, i believe -- i don't recall exactly but there was about two or three vans that pulled up. big vans with people inside of them. >> okay. what was their role in this evening? >> well, they showed up and they wanted to protect the
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business and i didn't really have a say in what everybody was doing. i was just there doing my first-aid stuff and then ryan said why don't you guys stay here and we'll go down to the car source number two. >> okay. so the people -- a group of people was going to stay at car source three and the people depicted in this praf were going to go where? >> car source two. >> is that what happened? >> yes. >> so at that point then sam and sal had coverage, for lack of a better word, at both of their businesses to protect the property, correct? >> yes. >> so you get down to car source two and did all the people go there? >> yes, besides sal the owner, he did not. >> during the night were sam and sal there? >> they were not. >> they left you guys there? >> i believe nick smith was in contact with them throughout the night. i'm not certain, bust i believe they were.
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>> and you get down there, were you able to get in and out of the business? >> yes. >> how. sa*l the owner gave nick smith a set of keys? >> did you personally see that? >> i did. >> did he give you any other direction regarding equipment? >> he let us know where the power washers and i think there was a single fire extinguisher in the building and hoses. the hose hookups in case there were any fires we needed to put out at the lot. >> anything else about -- >> he showed i believe it was dominic black and nick smith the two ladders that were there to get up on the roof. >> and did you guys use those ladders? >> i didn't personally. but the people on the roof did. >> okay. and you saw them use those ladders? >> i didn't see them but that's how they got up there. >> okay. where were you predominantly at car source two? >> i was in front. car source two.
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>> now during the night at car source two did you stay there the whole time? >> no, not the whole time. >> when you would leave car source two, what were you doing? >> when i left, i was with ryan and we would go out and ask if anybody needed any first-aid assistance and we would see if there were any fires and we would put them out. >> okay. did you personally put out any fires? >> i did. >> where? >> i put one out at the church. >> you can use the pointer. >> so right here was where there was demolishing and breaking some stuff down but right here i believe there was another building with an alleyway. it was either right here or here, i don't remember fully. there was a fire down the alleyway where they were trying to set the building and church
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on fire and me and ryan and somebody else was with us. we went to go put that fire out. >> did you put it out? >> we did. >> then what did you do? >> around that time we saw ruther central high school on fire, the front doors. and we were walking north down sheridan road to go put the fire out. and then somebody else put the fire out before we got to ruther central high school. >> is that here on pacific park? >> no, that's my mistake, sorry. you are walking north on sheridan it is the side of the building on sheridan road toward the left when you are walking north. >> in the general area where you were trying to help remove graffiti earlier. >> yes, in the photo to the right. >> okay. and during the evening, was there any friction between your
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group and protestors/rioters? >> no. the only type of stuff that happened was the person that attacked me first threatened to kill me twice. >> okay. the person who threatened to kill you we now know is mr. rosenbaum, correct? >> yes. >> bill: before august 25 of 2020 had you ever seen him before? >> i did not. >> had you ever done anything to upset him? >> no. >> now you said he threatened to kill you twice. >> yes. >> describe the first time. >> the first time was me and ryan were a little bit north -- towards the north corner of 59th and sheridan and mr. rosenbaum was walking with a steel chin and he had a blue mask around his face, and he
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was just mad about something. me and ryan were asking people if they needed medical help and he screamed sorry for my language he said if i catch any of you if you caners alone i'm going to fucking kill you. >> it was directed at you and ryan? >> it was directed at both of us, i believe. >> there was a second occasion where he threatened you? >> yes. the second time was outside of the car source. and i don't know if it was directed towards me but i heard it. he said to i believe it was joann fiedler, dustin, and another guy, he was screaming. he said i'm going to cut your fucking hearts out. i'm not going to repeat the second word. and kill you and words. >> now, did you ever see mr.
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rosenbaum doing any physical property damage? >> i did. >> where? >> i saw him -- i now know to be joshua. i saw him tip that trailer over and the porta potty. i believe he tried to start the porta potty on fire. i don't think he succeeded but i saw him with joshua. i don't know which one he was doing. >> where did you originally see that trailer? >> that trailer was in the st. james -- in the st. james church parking lot sort of like right over here and like the backish corner what i remember. >> and did you see how it got from there to where it was put on fire? >> it was pulled. >> by whom?
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>> it was several people that pulled it into the street and i can't tell you definitely who pulled it into the street. >> all right. and you went down there and saw them starting a fire? >> i didn't go down there. i was at the corner of the car source lot. >> you referred to mr. zam inski. before august 25 of 2020 had you ever met him? >> i had not. >> have you ever met him since? >> i have not. >> now, when you first saw mr. rosenbaum, was the top half of his body clothed or unclothed. >> he was clothed with a blue mask the first time i saw him, blue mask. >> and what was -- what color was his shirt do you remember? >> a dark reddish color.
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>> now, did you provide medical help to anyone? >> i did. >> describe a couple of those occasions. >> the first time i provided medical help to someone was this lady. i think she sprained her ankle or twisted it, i don't know exactly. i'm not an expert on x-rays. i wouldn't know. she hurt her ankle and she was being carried by two gentlemen and i said -- before that i was pepper sprayed but i was like hey, do you need help? and she said yes. i said okay, let's go into the car source where i was helping people and i wrapped her ankle and then she went on her way and i told -- i let her know there was a hospital if you go i want to say south sheridan, i let her know the hospital was over there and she should go
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get it looked at. >> anybody else? >> yes. >> when? >> somebody threw a chemical bomb right after i heard the i'm going to cut your hearts off from mr. rosenbaum. i don't know who threw it. somebody threw a chemical bomb and ryan had some effects of it. so i helped him with being able to breathe and i helped flush his eyes out and had him drink some water. >> okay. in the answer to the question just before you said something about being pepper sprayed. >> i did. >> where did that happen? >> it happened at the car source right i believe it's the first time a big crowd of people were over there. i was pepper sprayed by somebody that was in the crowd. i don't know why but i was pepper sprayed. >> did you do anything in retaliation? >> i did not.
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>> now, directing your attention to later in the evening, did there come an occasion where you had contact with mr. mcgibbons? >> there was. before this evening august 25th, 2020, had you ever met or spoke to mr. mcginnis? >> i had not. >> you and mr. mcginnis and ryan go someplace? >> yes, i get done with my interview with mr. mcginnis and i asked him -- no, i don't ask him. i said if you want to come with us that's fine to document and film me and ryan helping people and he said yeah, sure. he followed behind us. >> and mcginnis there was talking about an emt.
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>> i am not. >> you have first-aid and other training. >> i do. >> and you go to south on sheridan road? >> correct. >> you cross 60th and sheridan road? >> i believe we stayed just to the right going south on sheridan road. >> eventually you crossed sheridan road? >> eventually. >> were the bearcats there yet? >> no. yes, they were. >> had they set up a line to stop people that you were aware of? >> not that i was aware of. i just know they were parked right there and people were throwing rocks at them. >> did anybody tell you not to cross that line and you wouldn't be able to go back? >> not until later in the evening. >> you crossed that line and where do you go? >> we continue straight in a southerly direction down sheridan road. >> were you going any place in particular? >> we were just going to see if
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anybody needed medical help. i looked at a guy's shoulder on the way there. >> and you finished with the guy's shoulder and you continue on and what happens? >> i continued walking in a south -- southerly direction down sheridan road and then as i'm walking, i believe you guys have been referring to him as yellow pants. he said -- he said something to me, i believe it was you were the one that pointed your rifle at me with the laser pointed at me. i believe that's what i heard. and i didn't. that's the first time i saw him that night so i was confused. so i said i did? and then i continued to walk away. >> was the did an admission that you did it or more of a statement with a question?
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>> it was a sarcastic remark. >> okay. did you engage with him any further? >> no. >> and from there where do you go? >> there i continue walking in a southerly direction merging toward the middle of sheridan road. >> at that point did you become aware of anything? >> as i'm walking, i start to look because i realized ryan is not with me anymore. >> did you continue on your way down sheridan road without him? >> no, i went to go look for him in the ultimate gas station parking lot. >> when you went to the ultimate gas station parking lot, describe what was going on there. >> there were a lot of people there. i don't really know what was going on. i was focused on trying to find mr. ballch. as i was looking for him i said
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okay, no problem. i'll go back to the car source number two. >> okay. describe what happened as you did that? >> as i did that i received a phone call from dominic black. >> let me back up. were you able to get back to car source number two? >> no, i did not. >> describe that. >> as i was trying to get back, the police stopped me -- didn't stop me, they told me -- i believe they said something along the lines of to not go down there and i was telling them hey, i need to go down there. that's where i'm at at the business. i don't remember exactly how that conversation went but they wouldn't let me go back to car source lot number two. >> so you weren't able to get back to car source two. >> i was not. >> did you disobey the police order? >> no. you are alone and stuck on the other side of the police line from the car source two.
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where do you go? >> i went to where there is other people at the gas station protecting the gas station and i go there because i believe that's the safest place to go because there are other people there. >> at that point were you able to find ryan? >> i was not. >> while you are at the ultimate gas station i think you've been calling it? >> correct. >> point it out. >> right there. the ultimate convenience center diagonal from the gulf gas station. >> when you were there what's the next significant thing that happened? >> dominic black calls me and he says kyle, i need you to get down to the car source lot number three. the cars are being bashed in. they are setting all the cars on fire. i need you to go and put the fires out. >> okay.
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and did you do anything as a result of that phone call? >> i did. >> what? >> at the ultimate gas station i asked -- i don't know who he is but i asked an individual if he could come with me and if i could have a fire extinguisher to put out the fires. >> were both of those requests satisfied? >> one of them were. >> what? >> i was given a fire extinguisher but he said he can't come with me and he said he believes there are already people down there protecting the business. >> and what did you do next? >> i start running towards the car source lot number three to put out the fires, pausing occasionally to catch my breath and walk. >> on the way to car source three, did you have any interaction with mr. rosenbaum? >> i did not. >> did you speak to him?
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>> no. >> did you notice mr. rosenbaum doing anything as you went down to car source three? >> i didn't notice mr. rosenbaum until he came out from behind the car and ambushed me. >> okay. i will get to that. did you run the whole way? >> no, i didn't. >> okay. you had your gun, correct? >> yes. >> and you had a fire extinguisher and your medical bag and were you asking people about medic at that point? >> i was asking people if they needed medical help as i was going down there. >> due receive any responses? >> no, i didn't. >> describe your approach to car source number three. >> as i'm walking down sheridan road, i hear somebody scream burn in hell and i replied with friendly, friendly, friendly. to let them know i'm just here
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to help. i don't want any problems. i just want to put out the fires if there were any. i continued walking and then i noticed a flame in the back seat of the dura max and i stepped towards the dura max and as i'm stepping forward, i believe his name is joshua, he steps towards me with a pistol in his hand and as i'm walking -- as i'm walking towards to put out the fire i dropped the fire ex pinkisher and i take a step back. >> when you stepped back from mr. zim inski, what is your plan? >> my plan is to get out of that situation and go back north down sheridan road to where the car source lot number two was. >> and did you get back? were you able to go in a north
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irrelevantly direction? >> i wasn't. >> describe what happened. >> once i take that step back i look over my shoulder, and mr. rosenbaum was now running from my right side. and i was cornered from in front of me with mr. zim inski, and there were -- [crying] >> there were people right there. [crying] >> that's what i --
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that's when i ran -- >> we are going to take a break. you've been just -- just relax for a minute, sir. we are going to take a break about 10 minutes. don't talk about the case during the break. >> harris: you see the emotional break down of 18-year-old kyle rittenhouse on trial for shooting three people, two of them died during protests after a police shooting in kenosha, wisconsin. it was august 25, 2020 and we have been following this case. now the defendant is on the stand. the prosecution rested a short time ago. this is his defense attorney. the lead attorney mark richards, and they are going piece by piece. and when you get to the part of the actual action of shooting. a lot for anybody to get through, certainly the person on the stand. the judge has just directed
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there will be about a 10-minute break while kyle rittenhouse can gather emotionally. his attorneys can continue to question after that. you are watching the coverage of this live trial. this is "the faulkner focus". i'm harris faulkner. this is in "focus" for us this hour. there was so much talk about this during a time when businesses were being destroyed during riots and it was just a few months after george floyd in minneapolis and we saw this in certain sectors of the country where there were zones set up and lots of violence in the streets. there were protestors, yes, but there were insurgents among them. this was one of the areas in downtown kenosha after a police shooting there separate from george floyd. jacob blake was shot by cops there and that case hadn't even played out yet and people were in the streets rioting at that
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point. kyle rittenhouse has always maintained that he and friends went there. he was armed and had also a medic kit with him. he had a bullet proof vest but loaned it to a friend because he has testified today that they were going to help people and protect some of those businesses as the riots were going on. so that sets up how we got here today. and now his attorney is trying to show what exactly was going on with kyle rittenhouse at the time. a minor at the time, 17 years old. let's pick up from here with a legal expert and friend of the "focus" leo terrell, fox news contributor, civil rights attorney joins us by phone. leo, are you with me? >> yes, i'm with you. thank you very much for allowing me to participate in this testimony examination. i've been watching it from the beginning to end and i will tell you right now kyle rittenhouse state of mind has been clearly demonstrated he
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twlas to help people. you go there to help people with a medic kit, put out fires. and you saw at the point where the judge stopped the testimony, mr. rittenhouse is so emotional in front of the jury. you saw the judge hand him a bottle of water. what i've heard so far is a witness who is willing to go on the witness stand and tell the jury that he went there with the intention to help. i will tell you right now his testimony has been riveting. looks very credible. it will depend on how well he stands up on cross examination. i will tell you right now, given what he has done so far my 30 years of trial experience i think he has done an outstanding job as far as telling the jury and telling the world why he was there, what his intentions. and he had no intention to harm anyone. >> harris: leo, i want to get a
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couple of points in because his attorney did and curious why the defense would ask about this. what the significance was about the bullet proof vest and what kyle rittenhouse said was that he was issued that vest by the gray's lake police department. we saw reports he bought the bullet proof vest and it was given to him by that same police department. that would be consistent. but he gave it to a friend after arriving at kenosha, rittenhouse says he leant him the bullet proof vest. i mentioned this moments before but in the context of his attorney questioning him about it he said he thought he wouldn't need it because he was there to help people. he says the vest was issued by the gray's lake police department where he was an explorer. his relationship with whom ever he would have handed that vest to, is that why the defense attorney asked about it? or is it -- i'm curious why would his attorney ask about
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that vest? >> i think the question here is that it shows by giving the vest, i don't think kyle rittenhouse, harris, had any intention of being confrontational with anyone. you saw the fact he has testified to the fact that he was trying to put out fires. he was trying to render assistance. this guy has basically using the life skills he has been trained as a police explorer, a lifeguard. i think he had no anticipation of being confronted with -- by anyone. you also heard him testify he was threatened not once, but twice. notwithstanding that in the sequence of events, he is trying to help get back to the original location and at that moment where the jury and judge stops the testimony, you saw how overwhelmed he was from the emotions as to what was about -- what was about to come out of his mouth as far as the
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testimony and his reaction. you saw raw feelings there. >> harris: the defense point isn't to say he didn't do this and the emotion comes because he is about to say whatever it is. and that's what you are walking us through now and that's where it's coming from. the defense is that he did this in self-defense, which wisconsin law allows for you to take deadly force in that instance. >> absolutely. there is no question. this man, kyle rittenhouse was facing imminent bodily threat. he was facing the possibility of losing his life. he has a legal right, harris, to defend himself, to protect himself. the key here, harris, is who initiated the threat and was his response reasonable. >> harris: two things. one for anybody watching i want the take us back to the video on the screen. we haven't seen it in a while on august 25, 2020.
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you see police and swat and riot gear. to set this up again the demonstrations erupted after the kenosha police officer shot and wounded jacob blake. we saw it playing out in different cities. this type of reaction. the episode captured on cell phone video was protests across the country about police abuse of black americans. during those reports before those cases had been adjudicated, any of them. the nation was what i would describe and we've talked about it before at a tender spot and dealing with a lot of emotion. we know from when the prosecution had the realm there in the courtroom a trained paramedic who was shot and survived. one of the three people shot, two did not survive, testified he thought kyle rittenhouse was an active shooter. so i just want to put that in
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there, too, and work that through what we're seeing today, please. >> i tell you, that individual also -- in his testimony indicated he pointed the gun and rittenhouse had not pointed the gun at him. at that point when the paramedic testified to that point a couple of days ago i thought this trial was over because to me it was clearly a self-defense. you saw the prosecutor put his head down because he was basically shocked by the truthful testimony of this paramedic. i tell you this, harris, the one thing that is so significant when you talk about what happened in august of 2020 in kenosha and the court ever public opinion playing games with the facts. he was actually occurring in the courtroom not support of public opinion but admissible facts. it's a different story, a totally different story. those people who were trying to accuse rittenhouse of being a
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member of the white supremacist group, this kid to me is a credible kid who got caught up in a situation in which he tries to defend himself. not attack anyone. there is nothing i've heard where this man had a motivation to attack anyone. >> harris: you know, you will hear that it has been report evidence he was carrying an ar style rifle and that medical kit. talk to me about the facts of it and is that why the charges are what they are. first degree intentional homicide. first degree intentional homicide and first degree homicide. carrying a firearm illegally as a minor. could carry life in prison. >> all of those charges were caught up in the george floyd aftermath. august 2020, this country was
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anti--- basically pro riot as far as the democrats were concerned. prosecutors acting in my opinion erroneously and reacting to the court of public opinion. the facts that have come out so far in the trial and the testimony, harris, i don't see any facts to support these charges. i will tell you right now the fact this young man is testifying. you know what he is telling the world? i'm here to tell you the truth. i'm here to tell you my story. harris, a lot of people facing those charges don't testify. the motivation is something -- >> harris: that's an interesting point and i will step in there, leo, with all respect because i want to slow you down a little bit. that's a really critical point. why is it that they don't take the stand? is it so we don't see the tears and the emotion and by the way, that does not help the prosecution. >> harris, i'll tell you right now most individuals who do not take the witness stand have some type of guilt or feeling
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of guilt. the attorneys believe that there will be more damage done on cross examination. they feel that they will be torn apart. i don't think this young man falls in that category, harris. this young man does not have a criminal background. he wasn't involved in some type of criminal misconduct. the history of what happened that night indicates that this young man had good intentions. did you hear his attorney say have you ever met these people before? no. have you ever had any problems with these people before? no. therefore he had no motivation, harris, to kill anyone. he had no motivation. he was there to help people. and therefore he got caught up in a scene and the question here is did he do -- take reasonable steps to protect himself. he is saying i'm willing to get up on that witness stand, raise my right hand to god and tell the jury the facts. it will be very telling how he with stands cross examination. >> harris: let's go there.
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just a quick reminder of everybody what we're doing. we're inside of a 10-minute break by the judge so the 18-year-old defendant in this case, three shootings at a protest in august of 2020, kyle rittenhouse, of antioch, illinois. living with his mom at the time there, his father lived in kenosha. he had gone to kenosha where there were riots in the street after a police killing. he said he was going to help people and businesses being destroyed and people possibly hurt. that's what we're watching right now. we see the courtroom. when the judge is seated and the proceeding goes on we'll go back to it live. if you're the prosecution an cross examination of kyle rittenhouse, what do you anticipate we'll see? >> i will tell you, harris, he is going to focus if i'm the prosecution, i am going to focus on his firing the weapon. did he take time before he
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fired one shot, two shots? he is not going to talk about what happened before. he is going to focus on trying to get kyle rittenhouse to show his actions were unreasonable. expect him to focus on the actual shooting itself shot by shot by shot. what did he see? how did he react? what did he notice from the individuals? why did he fire? all those questions. focus on that area if i'm the prosecutor. that's the only way he has a chance to break down his credibility. everything up to that point, harris, kyle rittenhouse is a good samaritan. a good samaritan. i can tell you right now his testimony is solid so far. the tears looked real. when i saw the judge hand him a bottle of water that sends a powerful message to the jury. i was shocked the judge -- >> harris: someone like yourself as a civil rights
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attorney and has been in a courtroom in and out of it for 30 years not just looking real to you, not just to bystanders and somebody who is there overseeing the ajudd indication of this case and that matters, i would think, to the jury. i don't know what they are supposed to do is look at the facts. part of the facts, does it work this way, leo, when someone breaks down like that and judge hands you water and gives you a 10-minute break to get yourself together. does that factor in the case? >> you have been a journalist for years. you cannot ignore emotion. and the jury will ask itself, are those tears real? i will tell you right now they look real to me because that came out of left field. that was real, unscripted and i tell you right now the jurors saw that. >> harris: mark richards lead attorney in this also on the team another attorney we've heard from in reports as well
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and inside the courtroom. talk to me about his defense team and what they are telling him now. they will come back out and have to keep going, leo. >> they have to. >> harris: what would you be telling him? >> i would tell him if i was his attorney, he has done a great job so far. you have to hold control of your emotions. i know it is very emotional. >> harris: he is only 18. >> yes, he has to tell the jury. you have to anticipate, harris, what the prosecution will ask. his attorney has to ask the same questions he anticipates the prosecution will come back with. so he has to get through this. this is the bread and butter of all the charges. his actions during the firing of his weapon and what he saw. >> harris: you know, some reporting from the associated press has the man who took the stand and shot, the third and final man shot by rittenhouse
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during the night of racial justice protesting, took the stand and he said i thought the defendant was an active shooter. and he went on to say that he had his hands raised as he closed in on rittenhouse and didn't intend to shoot the young man. is that consistent? that sounds like two different things going on from that witness. i'm not the expert. you are. >> i tell you right now the question is whether or not the jury will buy that argument. it doesn't sound consistent. this is what the jury is going to have to deal with. remember, the burden is on the prosecution. beyond a reasonable doubt. so therefore, all defense has to do is raise reasonable doubt. i will tell you, so far the question is has the prosecution made its case to the jury because they rested. i will tell you right now, i don't think so because of the inconsistency. inconsistency favors the defense all the time.
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>> harris: all right. i want to get to what happens next if we even have a moment. the reason i say that is because i'm watching the judge come back in and so we could be seconds away from them resuming. so we'll see kyle rittenhouse again. would you have put him on stand? >> oh, knowing what i just learned in the last 45 minutes? yes. harris, i cannot stress this enough to the fox viewers. this young man based on what he did up to the time of the shooting, had the motivation to help. he did not have what you call the intent to shoot someone. >> harris: i just want to slow things down again. i will often do this when there is a hench point. 18-year-old kyle rittenhouse charged with shooting three men and two died. he has already described the chaotic scene. the trial has resumed. thank you.
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>> once i got to that car and i stepped forward to put that fire in the dura max out and mr. zim inski stepped toward me i went to run south, back south down sheridan and mr. rosenbaum was right there at the corner of the dura max starting to chase me. that's when i realized the only place i can run was to people around me is straight towards the building of the car source lot number three. >> when you saw mr. rosenbaum that's when you said friendly, friendly. >> when i heard burn inside i don't know where i was at at the time for that. >> did mr. rosenbaum say anything to you? >> no, mr. zim inski instructed mr. rosenbaum to get him and kill him is what i heard. >> and you go running what's been referred to southwest
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corner of car source? >> yes. >> and as you are running in that direction describe being chased and what was happening. >> as i'm running in the southwest direction, mr. rosenbaum throws -- at the time i know it's a bag now, but when he threw it at me with the light it looked silver and looked like a chain. when he threw it at me. and then i continued -- i turn around for about a second while continuing to run and i point my gun at mr. rosenbaum. >> did that stop him from chasing you? >> it did not. >> okay. after you turn around and you had your hands up kind of in the low ready position and you see mr. rosenbaum coming at you. >> yes. >> what do you do then? >> after he throws the bag and
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he continues to run, he is gaining speed on me. a gunshot is fired from behind me directly behind me. i take a few steps and that's when i turn around and as i'm turning around, mr. rosenbaum is -- i would say from me to where the judge is coming at me with his arms out in front of him. i remember his hand on the barrel of my gun. >> why didn't you just keep running? >> when i was over there, there were about 100 people surrounding that -- those cars and there was no space for me to continue to run to. >> and so you turned around? >> yes. >> as you see him lunging at you, what do you do? >> i shoot him. >> how many times did you shoot? >> i believe four.
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>> and after you shot him, what did you do? >> the people around the cars that were originally there were not there anymore. they moved away. i ran around to see if i could help mr. rosenbaum. >> and when you got to him what has happening? >> mr. mcginnis was -- he took off his helmet and slammed it on the ground and took off his shirt and i don't remember what he said. i wasn't focused on that. i was in shock sort of. >> bill: >> let me back up a second. did you know mr. mcginnis was even around? >> i didn't. >> he says something to you and what do you do? >> i pull out my phone and i called dominic black. >> and you called dominic and what do you say? >> i told him i just shot somebody. i had to shoot him. >> what do you do then?
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>> i now know it to be kelly zim inski and joshua and other people were screaming get his ass, get him, get him, get him. >> based upon that did you feel you were safe to stay where you were at? >> i thought the safest option would be to go north down sheridan to turn myself into the law enforcement down there. >> and as you head down sheridan road, describe what's going on. >> as i'm running, at first i'm in the sidewalk and mr. -- jason lakowski is in the sidewalk and i stop to talk to him for a brief second. i remember telling him i just shot somebody and i need help to get to the police. there was -- not a crowd, a mob was chasing me. >> and did he offer you any
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help? >> i don't remember. >> what do you do then? >> i continue to run after hearing people say -- people were saying cranium him, get him. kill him. people were screaming and i just was trying to get to the police running down sheridan road. >> you say i'm trying to get to the police. why were you trying to get to the police? >> i didn't do anything wrong. i defended myself. >> did you feel as though there was safety where the police were? >> yes. >> as you head down sheridan road what's the next thing you remember? >> the next thing i remember is anthony huber striking me in the head with a skateboard. >> as you sit here today do you remember talking to gabe? >> a little bit. i didn't know it was gauge when he came up to me but sort of. >> and when this individual runs up to you and gets how close?
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>> i would say within a foot. >> did you shoot him? >> i did not. >> did you point your gun at him? >> i did not. >> why not? >> i didn't see him as a threat to my safety or life. >> was he armed at that time? >> not that i noticed. >> you continue running in a northerly direction down sheridan road. as you run in that direction you say the next thing you remember is anthony huber. >> yes. >> describe that. >> anthony huber, what i remember is running past anthony huber and as i'm running past mr. huber, he is holding a skateboard like a baseball bat and he swings it down and i block it with my arm trying to prevent it from hitting me but it still hits me in the neck and as i block it, it goes flying somewhere off in the distance. >> and do you stop then?
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>> no. >> what do you do next? >> i keep running down sheridan road towards the police line. >> then what happens? >> i get light-headed. i almost pass out and i stumble and hit the ground. >> okay. before you hit ground, how many times were you struck? >> i believe twice. >> okay. do you remember anything about the other one. >> i remember the first one being a rock. i don't remember who did it. but i remember the bumpiness of a concrete rock hitting me in the back of the head. >> now, after being struck with mr. huber's skateboard you end up on the ground. >> yes. >> you are on the ground. what's the first thing you remember? >> as i'm on the ground, there are people around me. i don't recall how many. but i remember moving my rifle in their direction and they back off besides one person.
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>> when you noticed people by you, you said you moved your rifle in their direction. >> yes. >> did that individual keep coming? >> the last person did. >> okay. the people that stopped, what did you do to them? >> nothing. >> and you are saying the last person in that group continued to come at you? >> yes. >> and describe what happened? >> the last person, i don't know his name. i don't think he was ever identified. he jumps at me with his -- he was wearing boots, i believe. and as he is running at me and jumping, as his boot is making contact with my face, i fire two shots at him. >> why did you shoot at him? >> i thought if i were to be knocked out he would have stomped my face in if i didn't
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fire. >> as a result of being kicked in the face what happens? >> mr. huber immediately after i'm kicked in the face runs up as i'm sitting up to try to get up and get to the police, i'm on my back, and mr. huber runs up. as i'm getting up he strikes me in the neck with his skateboard a second time. >> then what happened? >> he grabs high gun and i can feel it pulling away from me and the strap starting to come off my body. >> and what do you do then? >> i fire one shot. >> and after you fire striking mr. huber what do you do? >> i lower my weapon and i see mr. gross kris with his hands up. as i am lowering my weapon i look down and then mr. gross
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kreutz lungs at me with his pistol pointed directly at my head. >> you heard his testimony about reracking. >> yes. >> did you rerack your weapon? >> i did not. >> could i have the exhibit, please?
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>> showing you what has been previously marked exhibit 28, do you recognize this? >> i do. >> now, when somebody as he said rerack, is that this? >> yes. >> do you call it reracking? >> i call it putting a light rocket in the chamber and recharge. >> to recharge do you have to pull this all the way back? >> yes. >> that's about four inches? i'm asking if you agree with that approximation. mr. rittenhouse, how far do you think that is? >> three or four inches. >> and if a weapon is loaded and you rerack, what happens? >> if there is already a round in the chamber, when you rerack the rifle, a live round would
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come out chambering a new round and into the chamber. >> now, we got to the point where mr. gross kreutz is standing in front of you with his hands up. are you a ware he is armed? >> at that point i see a pistol in his hand. >> is that the same or different from your first encounter with him? >> that is different. >> and he is standing, you said, how close to you? >> what i remember is our feet were touching what it seems like. >> okay. and you do what? >> my rifle is down, his hands are up. his pistol is in his hand and then he looks at me and that's when he brings his arm down
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like this, his arm is like that with me on the ground and his pistol is pointed at me and that's when i shoot him. >> how many times did you shoot him? >> once. >> and after you shoot him, do you know where you shot him? >> no. >> what happens after you shoot him? >> he is no longer a threat to me. there is only one person in front of me and his hands are up. i briefly point my rifle at him and i get onto one knee getting up and he backs -- he backs up with his hands up and i don't shoot him. >> did you notice anybody to your side? >> to my left there was a gentleman with a pipe and two my right i believe it was a fence post. i don't know what it was but it was a large object. >> once you are to your feet, what do you do?
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>> i start walking towards the police line to turn myself into the police. >> describe where is the police line, still in the same place? >> it moved up a little bit. i was i was in the road in this area. i don't remember exactly. i could see the flashing lights. >> as you go towards the police line describe what happens. >> i run and walk. i put my hands up and, hmmm. as i am walking towards the police, i can't really hear anything. my vision is very narrow. i can only see directly in front of me.
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i see lights. i tried to move my rifle behind me so the police did not see me as a threat when i tried to turn myself in. i continued to walk. then i walk towards the window of the police cruiser sedan. i don't know what they are called. i tell the officer i just shot somebody. the officer says, get back or you will get pepper sprayed. go home, go home, go home. >> where do you go after you step back? >> car source number 2. >> they were not stopping people from going northerly? >> no, they were not. >> who do you see?
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>> i get there and i see -- the first person i see is feedler at the door. they let me inside. the door was locked so somebody had to get the key to unlock it. we go inside. i am in shock. i don't remember what was happening in there. i was freaking out. i was just attacked. my head was spinning. >> did you go and turn yourself into the kenosha police department? >> i did not. >> why not? >> the kenosha police department was barricaded off with a fence. i don't think they were accepting anybody to come to the police department at that time. >> what did you do then? >> i went to the nearest police department that i knew of antioch in illinois. >> who took you there?
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>> my mother. >> how did you get there from kenosha? >> dominic black drove me. >> and dominic black drives you where? >> he drives me to my house and antioch, illinois, where i meet with my mother and sisters. i tell them what happened -- sort of tell them what happened. i was still in shock. my head was still spinning. then we went to the antioch police department whery turned myself in. >> who drove you? >> my mother. >> anybody else go with you? >> not at first. >> and you get to the antioch police department at what time? >> about an hour after the shooting. >> okay. when you get there are they looking for you? >> no. >> did you have to explain to somebody? >> i had to tell them i was just involved in a shooting in kenosha and needed a kenosha detective. >> did they take you into custody? >> no, they had me sit in the
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lobby of the police department. >> were you handcuffed to a chair? >> i was not. >> did you stay there? >> for about -- could not give you the exact time but until the detectives showed up. >> were you having any physical discomfort? >> i was vomiting and have a panic attack. my head was spinning and i could not think clearly at that point. >> i have nothing further. >> [silence].
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>> good morning, mr. rittenhouse. >> good morning. >> everybody that you shot at that night you intended to kill, correct? >> i didn't intend to kill them. i intended them to stop the people who were attacking me. >> by killing me? >> i did what i had to do to stop the person who was attacking me. >> by killing them? >> two passed away. i stopped the threat from attacking me. >> by using deadly force? >> i used deadly force. >> you knew would kill them? >> i didn't know it would kill them. >> you intentionally used deadly force against joseph rosenbaum?
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>> yes. >> and the man who tried to kick you in the face? >> yes. >> you intentional used deady force against huber and grosskreutz? >> yes. >> rosenbaum you intended to kill him? >> i didn't intend to kill him. i intended to stop the person attacking me and trying to steal my gun. >> since august 25, 2020, this is the first time that you have told your story. >> i object to this. >> since august 25, 2020, you had the benefit of watching countless videos of your actions that night, correct? >> i have seen certain videos. not all of them. i have seen the majority here during the trial. >> you also had the opportunity
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to read articles people have written and interviews about what happened that night, correct? >> i do my best to avoid what people write on the internet. a majority of it is not true. >> you also sat here through 8 days of trial? >> yes. >> and you had the opportunity to watch all of the videos played in this trial? >> yes. >> sir, if you could please let me finish my question before answering and i will do my best to let you finish your answer. fair? >> yes. >> you also had the opportunity to listen to the testimony of all 30 some witnesses that testified in this trial so far, correct? >> yes. >> after all of that now, you are telling us your side of the story, correct? >> correct. >> i will ask you focus to [inaudible]


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