tv FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX News October 3, 2021 11:00am-12:00pm PDT
this week we're celebrating a huge anniversary at fox news. i'm in my 25th year, thankful to be here. thank you for the trust you've shown in all of us. have an awesome day. ♪ chris: i'm chris wallace. president biden tries to end a fight between the moderate and progressive wings of his party. that threatens to derail his domestic agenda. >> we need to get the reconciliation bill. >> for them to get this, elect more liberals. >> doesn't matter if it's in six minutes, six days or six weeks, we're going to get it done. chris: the president pledging to bridge the divide between centrists who want to vote now on a bipartisan infrastructure bill, and progressives, who want to wait for agreement on a sweeping plan to reshape the nation's social safety net.
this hour, we'll faulk with -- h cedric richmond and ask ro khanna about the president's call to lower the price tag. plus, get reaction from the number three republican in the senate, john barrasso, only on fox news sunday. then, we'll ask our sunday panel about joe biden's presidency at a crossroads. and our power players of the week, the teamworking around the clock to ensure no service member is left behind, all right now on fox news sunday. ♪ chris: and hello again from fox news in washington. well, this was supposed to be the week house democrats passed that bipartisan infrastructure plan and gave president biden a much-needed legislative victory. but this sunday the party is still deadlocked between moderates who want
infrastructure and progressives who are determined to block that bill until they get the massive social spending they want. president biden is now talking about taking weeks, trying to resolve the differences inside his own party. the real danger, that he ends up with neither part of this domestic agenda. in a moment we'll speak with biden senior advisor cedric richmond and congressman ro khanna, a key member of the progressive wing. first let's bring in david spunt at the white house with the latest on the effort to find a compromise. david. >> reporter: hi, chris. as a u.s. senator, joe biden spent almost 40 years on capitol hill compromising, finding a compromise in this congress will be tough but he's not giving up. >> there's nothing in any of these pieces of legislation that isal, that is unreasonable. >> reporter: before leaving for a weekend in delaware, a confident president biden said he'll take his time, pushing both items on his wish list.
but telling progressives they must come off their $3.5 trillion top line for their social spending bill. >> we need to be real. are we going to deliver universal pre-k to this country or not? are we going to expand healthcare to our seniors and include vision and dental or not? >> reporter: while moderates led by congressman josh gottheimer have no appetite for the delays, writing it's deeply regrettable that speaker pelosi breached her commitment to members of congress and the american people to hold a vote and to pass the once in a century bipartisan infrastructure bill on or before september 27th. in a saturday letter to her caucus, speaker nancy pelosi wrote, we will and must pass both bills soon. we have the responsibility and the opportunity to do so. but centrists like gottheimer are focused on the infrastructure bill and they have support from republicans. >> that is what's wrong with washington, d.c. we don't put the needs of the american people first, we put
some other agenda and nothing ever happens. >> reporter: negotiations, chris, are ongoing until this comes to a vote. there's another clock ticking, raising the nation's debt ceiling until it hills its limit -- hits its limits in just a few weeks. chris: david, thank you. joining us now, senior advisor to the president, cedric richmond. mr. richmond, welcome back to fox news sunday. >> thanks for having me. chris: so, the house is out of session for the next two weeks. the legislation for this massive spending bill hasn't been written he yet. here was president biden on friday. >> i'm telling you, we're going to get this done. it doesn't matter when. it doesn't matter whether it's in six minutes, six days, or six weeks. we're going to get it done. chris: when the president says six weeks, mr. richmond, aren't we talking realistically about something in that timeframe?
>> well, no. we don't have a timeframe on it. this is just about delivering and making sure that we deliver both bills to the american people because it meets their needs. so we're not using an artificial timeline and we're not concerned with process. we're concerned about delivering. chris: but you can't deliver until you complete the process. the president has at various points been, frankly, all over the map on whether or not the infrastructure bill and the big social spending bill are linked. first they weren't. then they were. and now as of friday they are again. >> well, the president wants both bills and he expects to get both bills. nancy pelosi, the speaker, has said they're going to pass both bills and we believe that because we know that both bills are very popular and both meet the needs of the people right now. and so we're going to continue to work on both, keep our heads down and make sure we deliver. chris: would you agree that at
this point both the moderates and the democratic party have a veto over the spending bill in effect and the progressives in the party have a veto over the infrastructure bill? >> well, their future may be intertwined a little bit. we don't necessarily agree that it is -- that they're mutually ex use i've. the point is -- exclusive. the point is very simple. we need to make sure that we look at all of the programs that we need to deliver, create a bill and so that we can get it passed through the congress and i think it's really just that simple. chris: so the president on friday told the house democratic caucus and especially the progressives they're going to have to come down on the price tag for that big social spending bill from $3.5 trillion, what they had been talking about, to more in the neighborhood of $2 trillion, still a pretty pricey neighborhood, which is still even more than senators manchin or sinema are talking about. my question is this: as the
president talks about bringing the price tag down by at least a trillion and-a-half dollars, does he want to eliminate some of the proposed new programs that were included in this measure or is he talking or thinking about funding all of them but at a reduced level and, frankly, for a shorter time period, in other words with an expiration date which you know as well as i as a former member of congress that that's an old budget gimmick here in washington? >> i'll tell you that those decisions will be made in conjunction with members of congress but there is unity of purpose. everybody wants to bring down the cost of prescription drugs, healthcare and expand it so more people have it. we want to make sure we do the child tax credit and that we make sure that we cut taxes for working families. those are things that the entire democratic caucus are united about. we don't look at this as a number. we look at this as what programs
are we going to deliver, how do we ensure that we have child care so that parents can enter into the workforce or stay in the workforce. for us, this is about making sure that we meet the needs and the vision of president biden. chris: but this is a pretty big decision. because you can fund fewer new programs and keep them going for a longer time or you can fund all of the programs in the wish list but then you're setting dates when they go out of -- you know, that they're no longer in effect and that runs the risk that when they run out, let's say in 2025, that the congress and the president at that time won't renew them. >> well, that would just make an argument whenever they expire, the vision of the people of this country and what they want. and we know clearly that by passing the child tax credit and american rescue plan, we reduce child poverty in this country by 50%. that's why the child tax credit
is number one thing we're trying to get accomplished right now because we see how it lifted and families out of poverty and we want to do it again. if that fight comes back in 2025, 2026 or any other year we're going to be prepared to fight for it and american people will know just how important it is. chris: so senator joe manchin, he is still at one and-a-half trillion, not three and-a-half, not two, one and-a-half trillion dollars for the total social spending bill and here's what he said in a statement this week. spending trillions more on new and expanded government programs when we can't even pay for the essential social programs like social security and medicare is the definition of fiscal insanity. is senator manchin wrong? >> look, i won't say that senator manchin is wrong but i will say that this administration, we know what we need to do, we need to deliver for the american people.
17 nobel laureate economists said if we passed both of these plans we would reduce inflation, what we have to do is make sure senator manchin understands how this affects the future in terms of making sure we invest in american families so they can determine their own destiny. we think we have unity of purpose with senator manchin. that's what the president does best and that is to talk to senator manchin and make sure that he understands the entire vision, why we need to do it and at what amount. at the end of the day, chris, i think what's important for people to understand is that this piece of legislation costs zero. we're going to pay for it all by raising taxes on the very wealthy and big corporations. chris: i've got to stop you there. it doesn't of cost zero, whether it's three and-a-half trillion or one and-a-half trillion, whatever, it costs that amount of money. you can pay for it either by borrowing it or you can pay for it by raising taxes on
corporations and the wealthy, but it doesn't cost zero. >> at the end of the day it will cost zero because we're going to pay for it. if you look back at the trump tax cuts which weren't paid for, they cost billions and billions. we're going to pay for everything we spend here. and that is not including the economic benefits and gains that we will get from it. and we know what we're doing. if you look at the american rescue plan, the economy grew faster than it's grown in the last 40 years. we created more jobs than any administration in the history of this country. the president has a vision. knows what he's doing. he's going to deliver for the american people and we're confident that we will bring the democrats along with us. chris: but again, i just want to press down on this, because i can understand the argument. a lot of people say your math is wrong and even that it won't add zero to the debt, you could make the argument if you pay for it that you add zero to the debt but that doesn't mean that it costs zero. i mean, the fact that you're
raising people's taxes is a cost. >> well, we're also reducing taxes in this piece of legislation. 50 million americans will get a tax cut in this piece of legislation. chris: but net-net if you pay for it, if it's a $2 trillion spending plan, net-net it costs $2 trillion. >> well, i'm not necessarily sure about that, chris. and that's why we will make sure that all of the democrats are involved in how we shape it. but everyone's worried about a top number. what we should be worried about is the programs we deliver so that people can re-enter the workforce and that children don't drink poison water at school and in their homes. and remember, this is really not about politics or process. it's about purpose and accomplishing and a meeting the needs of the american people. chris: final question. what is at stake here? if congress fails to pass both the infrastructure package and the social spending package,
what's at a stake in terms of the biden presidency and the fortunes for the democrats in the 2022 midterms? >> well, this is exactly why i left congress because president biden's not worried about the politics of it. he's worried about delivering for people and that's what we're focused on. we're going to keep our head down and a we're going to deliver. we're going to lower prescription drug costs. people can't get their drugs at the end of the month to save their lives. we're going to keep focusing on covid. so this is not about politics. this is about delivering for people and this president's desire to make sure that he empowers families to reach their destiny. chris: mr. richmond, thank you. thanks for your time today. always good to talk with you, sir. >> thank you. chris: let's turn to democratic congressman ro khanna, a member of the congressional caucus that's demanding an agreement on the big social spending plan before it will pass the infrastructure bill. congressman, as we've noted president biden in his talking
to house democrats on friday said to progressives that this number, $3.5 trillion, is going to have to come down. here's how the head of your progressive caucus, how she reacted to that. take a look. >> it's going to be tough. like we're going to have to come down in our number and we're going to have to do that work. so we're going to get to work and see what we can get to. chris: so let me ask you the same question i asked mr. richmond. how do you get down to that lower number? there's two ways. one is you push forward fewer proposals but back them more fully or you keep all of the proposals but you give them sunset dates which as we both know is an old d.c. budget gimmick. >> chris, we can frontload the benefits and have less years but ultimately the president is an honest broker. he's going to bring all the stakeholders together and i trust his judgment to get a compromise. let me put one thing in perspective. donald trump left us with $7
trillion in debt in his term. his vision was cut taxes to grow the economy and we had overseas wars. we have a different vision. we want to spend money, invest to grow the economy. we believe that investing in the american people in a modern economy is the way to growth and that's our vision. chris: let's talk about other ways that you could cut the expense here. one of them, joe manchin, actually two of them joe manchin talked about. one is means testing. instead of giving benefits to everyone, regardless of income level, say they phase out, get lower and eventually are cut off for people above a certain income level. there's also talk which is not included in current ideas for a work requirement for people getting that child tax credit. what do you think about those as ways to target these benefits to people? >> it depends what we're talking about. if we're talking about a child tax credit that's already phased
out, earned income tax credit that's faced out. there's some things we have to do together as americans. should we really have segregated classes in public school? when i went to first grade you had blue collar kids and rich kids there. when we talk about having every american have a chance to get preschool which they already have in countries like france, i don't think that ought to be means tested. when we talk about everyone should be able to go to community college, senator manchin says we have 11 million jobs that are unfilled, how do we get credentials. i don't think that should be means tested. the senator's proposal, i think we can compromise on what requires means testing and what doesn't. chris: what do you think of joe manchin? >> i respect him. i've been to west virginia. he was deeply gracious. he cares deeply about his state. he, frankly, has always been transparent. we disagree. but he has been clear about what his views are and i think we can
come to an agreement but he's a straight shooter. chris: let's talk about something that he has shot straight about. he says that this social spending program needs to come down dramatically. he's saying not $2 trillion, $1.5 trillion. here was something he said this week. take a look. >> i don't fault any of them who believe that they are much more progressive, much more liberal. god bless them. we have to elect more i guess for them -- i guess elect more liberals. chris: dozen tore manchin -- does senator manchin have a point? he's says you don't have a mandate. the democrats in congress don't have a mandate for this enormous social spending. if you want to govern like fdr with a new deal, then win the super majority that fdr and lbj had and that joe biden and all
of 0:don't have -- all of you don't have. >> i don't think senator manchin and i are that far apart. in context, trump's spending which folks aren't talking about was $7 trillion, this is 3.5 trillion over 10 years. here's what i would say to senator manchin. you know who created the wealth had over the last year, where all the wealth is going, it's in my district. silicon valley has done terrific over the pandemic. i'm saying why don't we tax some folks who made millions of dollars with the digitization of the economy so we can help so many parts of the country, rural america, places that have been left behind, places in west virginia that need investment in industrialization, in new jobs, in child care. senator manchin and i if we sat down could come to an agreement. it's about economic growth and opportunity in the 21st century and we don't believe that just having tax cuts and overseas wars is the way to get there. chris: why is there such a split inside the democratic party? just in the house, in your body,
the house moderates were saying, look, give us a vote this past week on infrastructure and we will support, we'll negotiate but we'll support a social spending plan and you progressives wouldn't trust them. why not? >> chris, honestly there wasn't a split. we agreed to do what joe biden wants. you know i chaired bernie sanders' campaign. medicare for all isn't in here. free college isn't in here. chris: time out here. the fact is that nancy pelosi -- wait a minute -- promised the moderates a vote this past week, first on monday, then on thursday, and she said to them i'm going to give it to you and you and the progressive caucus refused to give it to them. why didn't you trust them that if you passed their plan, they would vote for your plan? >> what i said was the progressive caucus has said we'll do what the president wants. i didn't get one phone call from the white house saying we want the infrastructure bill to pass first. i didn't get one call from the speaker's office or the majority leader's office. the reality is, 95% of the party
has been with president biden. he wants both bills. those are his bills. he wrote those bills. that is his vision. his vision is we want people to have child care, we want people to have community college, we want folks to get dental and vision and i will follow the president on the compromise. chris: are you saying -- i've got 30 seconds left here, sir. don't mean to interrupt. are you saying that the white house wanted these two bills linked because there have been reports that some top white house people including white house chief of staff ron klain were saying to progressive, hey, stand your ground, it's okay to link these two bills. >> ron never said that to me but they never said that we have to vote for the infrastructure bill and what i heard directly from the president is he wants both bills. i think that has always been his vision. and i'll tell you this, at least i can speak for myself, i would not have contradicted the be president's vision. what i have said consistently when most progressives have said is we want to do what the president wants and i think the
house moderates thought joe biden is a moderate, he agrees with us. actually this time he didn't. he agreed we want both bills. chris: congressman, thank you for joining us today. we'll be tracking how the negotiations go over the biden agenda in the weeks to come. >> thanks for having me. chris: up next, reaction from republican senator john barrasso who says democrats' big spending plans will boost inflation at push the country towards socialism. nope - c'mon him? - i like him!
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chris: while democrats are locked in a battle over spending priorities, republicans are watching from the sidelines with an eye on next year's mid terms. joining us now from wyoming the number three republican in the senate, john barrasso, welcome back to fox news sunday. >> great to be with you. thank you. chris: you heard my conversations with cedric richmond and congressman ro khanna. your reaction? >> well, what we're seeing is like watching an episode of the twilight zone. i thought joe biden went to the hill on friday to try to get that bipartisan infrastructure bill passed. and instead, he surrendered to the radical wing of his party and now you have this big government socialism reckless spending bill being basically used to hold hostage the things that the american people want, roads and bridges, highways, all of those things. when that bipartisan bill passed a 50/50 senate, it has 69 votes.
it had a lot of momentum on its side. in a normal world that would have been signed into law by the president. this was two months ago, before afghanistan when the president lost a lot of political muscle. now you we're at a point where the president is weak and really bernie sanders, the far left democrats are driving the bugs and joe biden is just along for the ride. chris: well, let's talk about politics on both sides, he though. as you point out, 19 of your fellow republican senators voted for the bipartisan infrastructure plan in the senate. you didn't. you called for the reconciliation bill, a freight train to socialism. you and all of the republicans are refusing the normal course, bipartisan passage of raising the debt limit so i guess the question to you and a lot of republicans is, are you viewing these issues on the merits or are you just playing partisan politics?
>> i think the american people want the sorts of things that are in that bipartisan bill, roads, bridges, ports, airports, all of those things are important. i had some concerns with some of the gimmicks that were used to fund it. i thought it spent too much. there was some issues that i didn't like in terms of i thought it was going to make energy more expensive and undermine our grid. but, look, you have a 50/50 senate. 69 votes is a big number of votes to support something. but on this $3.5 trillion infrastructure proposal that the democrats are focusing on right now with trillions of dollars of increased taxes and trillions of dollars of increased debt, every republican is united against it. we're a party that wants to grow the economy. the democrats are a party that wants to grow the government and you heard it right there. they're continuing to try to mislead the public by saying it is free. it is not free.
they said, oh, inflation -- cedric said, oh, inflation will go down. inflation, people are feeling the bite of inflation right now when they buy groceries, when they buy gas, all of those things. they think if this stuff passes, a massive spending and tax bill, that inflation will get much worse. chris: let's talk, senator, about some of the specific programs in this big social spending bill. as part of the trump tax cuts in 2017, you voted to increase the child tax credit from $1,000 to $2,000. now, as part of this bill, the democrats would extend that to 2025 at a higher level. the fact is, that your state of wyoming is one of the states that benefits most from the increase in the child tax credit. why oppose that? >> well, we are talking about a $3.5 trillion massive bill. chris: forgive me circumstance i'm asking about this specific part of the bill.
i understand there are parts that you don't like. but, for instance, i guess part of the question is, could you have worked with them on this child tax credit which you voted for in 2017? that's one of the things that you're voting against now. why oppose that specific program? >> it's part of the bigger bill. you know the issues for any member of the senate or congress, you have to look at the entire bill and say are you for the bill or not. the democrats are not coming to talk with republicans on any of these things. i mean, bernie sanders the other day said 48 people ought to be able to overrule two. but there are actually 100 members of the senate. it's 52 against number of things that the democrats are proposing here and the content of this bill matters almost as much if not more than the cost. i've gotten more letters in the last two weeks on one component of this, which is the issue of giving a whole new army of irs agents to rifle through your
checking account, to look at any check that you either deposit or write for over $600. this is an invasion of privacy. every senator is hearing about this. that's included as well. so when you take a look at the entire bill, which is why joe biden said it's time for a extra tea -- joe manchin said it's time for a strategic pause, looks like there may be a long pause on the real infrastructure bill and the spending blowout bill. chris: you talk about things you don't like, like the added irs agents and added irs intrusion. let's talk about another part of the bill which is universal pre-k. in the state of wyoming, less than a quarter of children 3 to 4 who would be covered in the bill are enrolled in publicly funded preschool. less than a quarter. wouldn't a lot of wyoming families benefit from universal pre-k? >> there are a number of things that will help the people of wyoming. overall, joe biden's policieses
have been hurting the people of wyoming and i believe that there should be things means tested. you just don't give things universally to everybody. i think there should be work requirements involved. the democrats are trying to separate work requirements from just free government checks and programs. you heard the congressman from the progressive caucus say everybody ought to get free community college, everybody ought to get free day-care, pre-k, all of those things and that's not the way this country has been founded and how we work. chris: i've got less than a minute left. are you and your republican colleagues thoroughly enjoying this divide inside the democratic party? >> well, i'll tell you, the thing is joe biden ran as a centrist and as competent. and what we're seeing is that he is neither and people across the country are feeling less safe with joe biden as president. their paychecks are less safe because of the inflation. when you look at hundreds of thousands of people illegally
coming to the country every month they feel less safe. when the generals testify as they did that we are less safe to terrorism, joe biden has now walked the plank for the socialist bernie sanders budget. he's man overboard and he can't swim. he is sinking and he's sunk. chris: senator barrasso, thank you very much. i love the metaphors. thank you. thanks for your time. always good to talk with you, sir. up next, we'll bring in our sunday group to discuss prospects for both of these bills and what failure to pass them would mean for the biden presidency. [uplifting music playing]
-- proposition. i think it makes sense. i support both of them. i think we get them both done. chris: president biden expressing confidence congress will ultimately pass the domestic agenda despite deep divisions within his own party. it's time for our sunday grout,, stevens hayes, fox news contributor, marie harf and jonathan swan. i think it's fair to say at the end of this very eventful week that there's even more back-fighting among democrats right now. a lot of the house moderates thought when joe biden was coming to the hill on friday, he was coming to rally support for the infrastructure bill. he didn't do that. he seems now to link them. and i thought it was interesting to hear ro khanna say he didn't get a single word from anybody at the white house this week support the infrastructure bill which is a message in itself. so what is going on in the biden white house?
>> well, i think joe biden, you just played the clip, said it pretty succinctly. they don't have the votes. very, very simple. they don't have the votes. what people expected, some people expected, not everyone, but some, was that the progressives would fold, that nancy pelosi with her hammer would basically push them to have that vote and they would dissolve. but actual actually, you've got to give them a lot of credit. they stuck together and they were very cohesive and ro khanna is part of the progressive caucus, they stuck together and said we're not going to separate these two bills, we're going to demand that they stick together and they won that fight. and right now they're going to face an extremely painful few weeks because it's not about -- you know, everyone talks about the topline number, 3.5 trillion, 1.5 trillion. within that are a bunch of programs that are considered vital by many of these democrats
and their constituents. so they have to make really tough choices, do we get rid of paid family leave, child care, what do we do with climate change, helping the homeless. they have to make really tough policy choices underneath that topline number. chris: marie, you have close ties across the party. some people are saying this is no longer just a fight between house moderates and house progressives, this is now a fight between the house democrats and senate democrats, between chuck schumer and nancy pelosi and between nancy pelosi and president biden. >> chris, it's interesting. a lot of those fights or those reported fights are very inside baseball here in d.c. and they're important because they help guide what policies eventually will get in. i think what will be a successfully passed bill, eventually. look, these deadlines i think are fairly artificial. there's nothing magical about yesterday or friday when they were trying to get this bill
done. so if democrats, all those different factions can come together and get these bills done whenever that is, after a painful few weeks, i think it will be incumbent upon them to go out to states and say here's what your citizens are getting out of these bills, exactly the questions you asked senator barrasso. a lot of the pieces of these bills will help people in states including states led by republicans so democrats have to -- eventually, they have to get this passed. i think they will. i think there will be a compromise. they don't have a good answer on the republican side on things like the child tax credit, on some of these very popular pieces of this bill and, look, democrats are going to say, chris, none of these republicans bat an eye at spending not just on the trump tax cuts but on defense spending for example. can't we spend as much money to take care of our people coming out of such a crisis year and-a-half? chris: steve, if there is one praise i hate in washington reporting, it's make -- phrase i
hate in washington reporting it's make or break. many of us have seen legislation that appears to be in trouble or appears to be dead and it's suddenly revived. what do you think are the realistic chances that it may be reduced but both infrastructure and a big social spending plan in the end will be passed by the democrats even with their razor thin majority? >> yeah, look, chris, i think you're exactly right. it's still possible, there's no question that democrats could eventually come together to pass these plans and you've seen this again and again and again covering washington. the challenge for democrats right now is this bitterness among these factions is increasing right now, not decreasing. i think your interview with representative khanna and the question about the reporting about what the white house has been signaling privately to these progressives i think the white house gambled that the infrastructure wouldn't work eventually. what they wanted to do was
essentially show people like senator manchin, senator sinema, other moderates that republicans couldn't be worked with, that they were going to have to pass the biden agenda on a partisan basis. that complicates matters. the fact that republicans did go along with it, there was a vote in the senate with 69 votes, that complicates their original plan and what you're seeing now are these i think principled significant differences among these factions but you now have progressives, they were very nice on your show, i thought, but they're taking shots at the moderates saying these are sell-out corporate interests, they want to boost the republican agenda, they're not committed to president biden. these are hard feelings that whim take a while -- will take a while i think to get past if they're going to make these things work. chris: jonathan, briefly, in this very charred situation, does the white house have a battle plan? does it have a strategy to pass both parts of this agenda and, if so, what is it? >> if they do, is been very well
concealed. but there is a debate inside the white house right now between president biden's top aides and his economic advisors on whether to cull programs all together and reduce the number and deliver a few things really well and try and make them permanent benefits that the american people feel, or proceed with the vast range of programs that they have in the original bill but lower the spending on them which means as you pointed out sunsetting them. there are downsides to both approaches, one being if you go for the second approach you might deliver a whole lot of programs poorly and create a whole lot of uncertainty in the lives of vulnerable people around the country with all of these clicks, when unemployment benefits expire and these crises. so it's a really, really tough set of choice this have to make to bring the number down to around 2 trillion. chris: whoever thought we would
talk about down to 2 trillion and who ever thought you would say to a congressman you can have your entitlement but he can't have his. we have to take a break. when we come back, there's a new flood of migrants headed for the southern border and it's even bigger than the last one. age is just a number. and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health. versus 16 grams in ensure high protein. boost® high protein also has key nutrients for immune support. boost® high protein.
>> we're a nation state. we have borders. the idea that we can just have open borders is something that i think as a practical matter is unsustainable. chris: former president obama laying out the challenge the biden administration now face as huge numbers of migrants continue to make their way towards our southern border and we're back now with the panel. before we get into this, i just want to say, because we're getting some people sending us
messages, we did not cut off senator barrasso. he was on skype from his home in wyoming and his skype, don't want to get in trouble with skype either, it went bad. but we did not cut him off. we would never do that. in fact, i was enjoying his talking about walking the plank and not being able to swim. all right, steve, with that cleared up, there are reports that 60 to 80,000 more haitians are on the way, coming up from latin measuring, through the jungles of panama, into mexico, up to the border. which makes what we've seen so far from the haitians in del-rio pale by comparison. what does this say about the biden administration and its failure to get a handle on the immigration crisis. >> look, it's a huge problem and it is in fact a crisis. the biden administration came into office taking i think a rather long-term view of the approach to the border and the
approach to the growing migration which really has been taking place for a decade. we've seen these kinds of inflated numbers for ten years, now there's been an additional spike. i think the problem is you had vice president harris in her working of out deals with the northern triangle countries, with countries in central america, in effect asking them to be a frontline border patrol for the united states. the problem is, wasn't necessarily in their interest to do that kind of preemptive enforcement for us. they believe in many cases it's in their national interest not to do that. so she tried to push the problem forward and i think in effect has-it hasn't worked as we're seeing with this increasing surge. the conditions that are leading people to come are unlikely to abate in the coming months. you're having covid, economic crises, you're having governance crease ease, personal secures crises, they're going to keep sending people north.
chris: the administration announced a new enforcement policy this week that they will focus primarily on migrants who have just come over the border illegally or migrants in this country who pose a threat to national security or a real threat to security in general. do they -- but not -- not focus on migrants who have been in this country for a while and not committed crimes. do they think that's going to do anything to stop the flood of people coming up from latin and central america? >> no, it's just a band-aid. i mean, when you talk to senior officials, they acknowledge -- i mean, this is -- the set of crises that steve just outlined, it's probably unprecedented when you overlay a global pandemic with in haiti the earthquake and the assassination of a leader, the economic can crisis in the region and it's only getting worse. i mean, my colleague interviewed
panama's foreign minister. as you laid out, this is only getting worse. some is inducement from the biden administration policies and traffickers using that to message to people in the region, come on up, come on up. so the only way to solve this is a regional solution. there's obviously going to be enforcement from the u.s. side but they're going to have to get cooperation from others if the region, otherwise you're not -- the scale of the problem has become so massive that it is going to require original solutions. chris: here was a texas county commissioner describing the situation on the border this week. take a look. >> this is a huge national security problem. i mean, we have people crossing this border and we've heard numbers of this group up to 206,000 and we've had thousands -- 20,000 and we've had thousands before this. chris: marie, this is the kind of uncontrolled illegal immigration that can really cost a party politically and you we even had former president obama this week talking about anything
that smacks of open borders being unsustainable. >> yeah, chris, the two constituencies i think democrats are and should be concerned about, first in these border states, texas, new mexico, arizona, democrats have made gains over the last years and were hoping to make more but i think they're nervous about the politics in these states as these crises at the border get worse. they're also worried about the progressive plank. goa may have sided -- joe biden may have sided them with infrastructure and reconciliation. the progressive plank of the party is increasingly noisy about the fact that joe biden is keeping some of the trump policies in place or trying to with high tell 42 -- title 42 for example. progressives say you ran on restoring dignity to the white house. why is the border looking like this. democrats are worried about the politics of both and trying to walk the line that is quite frankly tricky to do. there are no easy answers and no
good answers right now. chris: steve, how potent an issue is this for republicans or how potent an issue do they think it is for them if we continue to have this crisis at the border in the run-up to the 2022 mid terms. >> pretty darn potent for a couple reasons. one is the reason that marie suggests. it's chaos at the border. i think that's likely to have follow-on effects for people running in competitive races, swing districts down there. if you look nationally, i think it's a further indictment of what president biden said that he was running on, which was returning the country to normal after the chaos of the trump years and question tent. he -- competence. he hasn't shown that. if you look at what's happening on the border since he was sworn in -- we knew this was going to happen. none of this was a surprise. all of the conditions were there. we understood and the biden team was asked before he was sworn into office what they were going
to do to handle this understood crisis that was growing. and we haven't seen competent governance. they took this long-term view, they thought they had years to solve a problem when in fact it was a growing crisis. i think that is something that's likely to last throughout the next year, throughout the next 13 months as a reflection on his own words on competence. chris: thank you, panel. we're going to have to leave it there but to be continued. see you next sunday. up next, our power players of the week, the skilled investigators behind the military's effort to return lost heroes to american soil. ok everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. whoo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, now introducing ensure complete! with 30 grams of protein.
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chris: it's a pillar of the u.s. military creed, leave no one behind. and it turns out the pentagon is determined to keep that commitment in life as well as in death. it's the job of our power players of the week. >> for me, this is the most purposeful mission in the entire department of defense. >> ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon. chris: retired major general kelly mckeague heads the defense pow mia accounting agency, charged with finding and identifying missing service members.
dpaa teams search around the world for remains from conflicts dating back to world war ii. >> there are currently close to 82,000 that are still missing of which we believe 38,000 are recoverable. chris: how do you determine whether or not remains are recoverable or not? >> so our historians will comb through battlefield records, archival information and if they're able to narrow down an area, we can send an archeologist or anthropologist with which to conduct a field recovery. chris: there are case files on every one of the missing and the work combines international diplomacy with csi technology. >> we will look at anthropology, we will look for dna association, material evidence, clavicle matching, as well as stable isotope analysis. chris: some 15% of our nation's unknown are buried in places
like the national cemetery of the pacific, in hawaii's punch bowl crater. that's where the dpaa made a major discovery this year, the remains of medal of honor winner, army chaplain amill kaplan. >> a few months after arriving in korea his unit is overwhelmed by chinese forces. as unit leaders ordered a retreat, he said i need to stay. chris: he went from fox hole to fox hole comforting the wounded until he was captured. >> he ministered to all the pows in the camp, he stole food and medicine under noses of guards to provide comfort and relief to fellow prisoners and for that he was mistreated badly. chris: his defiance of his captors didn't end there. he held easter mass for fellow pows. >> because of starvation,
malnutrition and medical and mat he passed away in may of 1951. his colleagues that were in the camp revered him. chris: his remains were finally returned to his family seven decades later and this weeks thousands watched as a horse-drawn cass s on car rid the chaplain to his final resting place back home in kansas. what did it mean to you, having devoted so many years to this endeavor, to identify chaplain kapon? >> here we are, literally -- well, 70 years after he died in that pow camp, able to bring this final answer for a man that made the supreme sacrifice to our nation, is an absolutely indescribeable feeling. chris: chaplain kapon was named a servant of god by pope john
paul the second. that's the first step on the path to sainthood. that's it for today. have a great week. and we'll see you next fox news sunday. ♪ ♪ maria: good sunday morning, everyone. welcome to sunday morning futures. i'm maria bartiromo. let it be clear, the socialists are in charge. nancy pelosi jetting off to itly i'm told to meet with the pope after friday's massive failure in washington with no deal done and progressives able to blow up a bipartisan infrastructure plan while pushing $5 trillion tax, spend and green plan that most of them have not even read. >> this is their