tv The Story With Martha Mac Callum FOX News June 15, 2021 12:00pm-12:28pm PDT
you. >> absolutely. yes. we'll take it all in. john, great to be with you. i'm sandra smith here in new york. >> john: you as well, sandra. see you time. i'm john roberts. "the story" with martha maccallum starts right now. >> martha: beautiful scene in geneva. good afternoon. i'm martha maccallum in new york. covid cover-up from china has now as of today led to the death of more than 600,000 americans. that is the new number on this tuesday. the battle over where the fault was is only just beginning. for months dr. anthony fauci and dr. francis collins and most of the media said that the idea that it could have come from the wuhan lab was a theory often talked about by president trump that they felt was not plausible. even though the virus was first spotted just a stone's throw
from the lab where chinese scientists have long been working with bats and coronaviruses. even amping them up to make them more deadly. dr. robert redfield, the head of the cdc under president trump was one of the first officials to support this theory. that perhaps covid did leak from the lab. he says that since coming out with that theory, he received death threats as a result and kept largely silent since until now in this exclusive interview with fox news medical contributor, dr. marc siegel. >> here i think there's a few different hypotheses that are credible. one that this virus evolved from bats into some intermediate animal that is yet to be found and eventually evolved to humans. basically became efficiently
transmitted among humans. the other that this virus went from a bat into a laboratory where in the laboratory it gained the ability to become an efficient human-to-human transmitter. those are two hypotheses. if i'm disappointed about the early scientific community, there was a lack of openness to pursue both hypotheses. it's interesting. if you look at sars, sars went from a bat to a cat and went into man. but it never really learned how to go officially man to man. as we sit here today, there's less than 10,000 cases of sars in over 18 years. when you look at mers, went from a bat to a camel to man, still hasn't learned to officially go human to human.
we've had less than 4,000 cases. we saw some unprecedented situations where a number of prominent scientists said that they needed to write a letter to lancet. that journal felt that they needed to publish that letter that said that anybody that put forth the hypothesis that this virus came from a lab is a conspiracy theorist. i'm a virologist. i don't think it's plausible that it went from a bat to an animal to humans and learned how to be human-to-human trans missable to causing one of the greatest pandemics that we've had in the history of the world. >> you think the probability is that this leaked from a lab? >> my professional opinion as a virologist, that's the hypothesis that i support. other individuals, tony fauci
would say that he prefers to support it evolved from nature. those are the two hypotheses. i should work hard to prove my hypothesis wrong and he should work hard to prove his hypothesis wrong. >> you were in a position as cdc director to be interacting with secretary of state mike pompeo. would you say you had more information or more insight to what had happened or what was going on than dr. fauci did? >> i know i had a very high security clearance to work with the state department and the national security group including secretary, pompeo, where we reviewed material together to try to understand -- help him understand what the -- what it meant scientifically. i don't know if he asked dr. fauci to do the same. i would say i had the highest
clearance within the agencies within the department of health and human services and privy to a lot of information. some of which now has been declassified. i think as you see more and more of it declassified, people start saying, wait a minute. maybe we ought to look at this other hypothesis with the same rigor or -- i wouldn't say rigor for the other hypotheses that evolved. seems like it was a general acceptance. like i mentioned, those scientists in lancet decided that almost try to power play you that this is the only way you can think. and i think we're seeing now that there's an opening of the scientific community to say wait a minute. we need to look at both possibilities and we need to be scientific about this. within the task force, we didn't discuss this. all right? this was never on the agenda of the task force.
the task force was really focused on trying to figure out how to protect the american people now. i will tell you in the national security group, because back in the early days, even in january, i was meeting with them a couple times a week. they were on this, right? and so they were kind of doing this. when one of the members of the task force asked me, you know, why i didn't express that at the task force meeting, i said, well, it was never on the agenda. we never talked about origin of the virus within the task force meeting. so it was always something that was more being worked on on the security side. i got to go on both sides because i worked with them and then i got to be involved because different members including secretary pompeo asked
me to help them understand what this gobblely goop language meant. so we didn't really -- we didn't focus on origin. it does show something that needs to change. there needs to be much more integration and harmony between the public health science side and the national security -- >> so you were consulted by state. you talked about that already. what about national security council? >> we talked to a number of members of the national security council. as i said early on in january and early february, i meet with them frequently. it was before the task force, the vice president came in. there were many people looking at trying to get at this information. i think the -- the error that was made, as i mentioned earlier is not doubling down on demanding -- getting the president demand that the cdc get into help evaluate this
pandemic in january 2020. i think if we had, we would have been able to make a lot of corrections in our thinking that would have impacted the american public. >> martha: that's something. dr. marc siegel joined me now along with david asher that led the investigation that dr. redfield discusses in this interview in the origins of the virus. dr. siegel, it's a remarkable interview. we're glad you have the opportunity to do it. i whatn't to let everybody know that there's more coming in the show and you'll see the biggest part of it that you have seen all day on this program. but dr. siegel, he said something at the end there that catches my attention. if we had paid more attention to the origins of the virus, if this conversation had been allowed and encouraged in the task force and at the white
house, we could have made a difference in american lives. 600,000 people dead as of today. >> absolutely, martha. here's why. he said this to me. it's because if the virus was manipulated and made to be like no other virus before, it would explain why it's so highly asymptomatically spread. it would explain why it causes this tremendous inflammation that we never saw with other viruses. those characteristics are more consistent with something that is manipulated and leaked out of a lab. the idea that not only was this suppressed initially when he was the only one with the high security clearance, that's why he's saying it's got to be more disclosed. he said the task force wasn't putting it on the agenda to talk about this. i told you why it's important. if you know that asymptomatic spread was the thing, dr. redfield told me, he would have had a manhattan project of
testing like south korea had. let's test everybody over vast tracks to see if they could have had it. we were going by a model that you had to have symptoms at first. >> martha: this may sound like a strange, you know, segue here. but david asher -- this is jon stewart. keep in mind that facebook was shutting down anybody who went on facebook and talked about the potential that the lab might have been the source here. so there was a concentrated effort across a number of platforms to shut down any conversation about the wuhan lab as the source. then jon stewart goes on last night with stephen colbert and here's what he said. watch this. >> there's novel respiratory coronavirus overtaking wuhan, china. what do we do? oh, you know who we could ask? the wuhan novel respiratory coronavirus lab. the disease is the same name as the lab. so wait a minute.
you work at the wuhan respiratory coronavirus lab? how did this happen? they're like oh, a bat kissed a turtle. >> david asher. people are laughing but he got a lot of heat for suggesting that last night, david. >> yeah, it's no laughing matter. he's right to poke holes and use his sense of humor to cast doubt in the way scientists handled this inquiry that dr. redfield says that they didn't do. they never looked at the origin. doesn't seem that anyone did that we did in the fall of last year. systematically looking at it. and i contacted cdc. i contacted nih. i asked for their data. cdc was the only one that was forthcoming. nih headquarters was not. so you know, i don't blame dr. redfield for saying it. he was on track.
he remains on track and we need an investigation badly. >> martha: yeah. the bat lady doctor, dr. li says there was not covid-19 in her lab. but she -- she really would not be able to say anything other than or she would probably be shut down like the other scientists were. she said she can't believe that the world is pouring filth on an innocent scientist. your thoughts. >> we know from the information we put out that that is a total lie. she like so many other communist in china are lying. if they don't lie, they get killed or thrown in jail. so i don't want to necessarily throw blame on her, but they were engaged in a system gain of function related program to enhance the virulence of a predecessor to covid-19.
they called that the security equivalent of a dentist office. if this was as deadly as it was and we were handling it in level 2 laboratory, they created the grounds for it to leak out. imagine -- it's outrageous what happened in china and more outrageous that we ignored this until this began to be covered by journalists like you. >> martha: and you were shut down by the current administration. somebody said look into the lancet and asked why they allowed a letter to be published by 24 scientists. they did absolutely no investigation of the lab theory before they allowed it to be published in the lancet that was a widely respected journal that said this didn't happen in the lab. shut it down. a lot of questions raised by that as well. stick around. we're going to continue our look at dr. siegel's interview. david asher, good to have you with us. thanks very much. in part 2 of what happened in
this investigation, dr. redfield revealed why he thinks dr. fauci clung to a different hypothesis. >> i think tony is holding on to this hypothesis tightly. why would that be? >> next, texas governor greg abbott has called for other governors to send him reinforcements to his border. we'll talk about that after this. a
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law enforcement resources to come down there and help. they say the federal government has abandoned them and that they need to protect their own citizens. the vice president has been asked when she will fulfill the task given to her by president biden. >> you haven't been to the border. >> and i haven't been to europe. i don't understand the point that you're making. >> martha: governor greg abbott joins me now. thanks very much. good to have you with us today. your saying that the federal government has dropped its responsibilities. so now you have to essentially defend your own state. you have put in a declaration of an emergency in your state. have any of other governors offered to help you by sending resources to texas so far? i think we just lost governor abbott. we'll work to get him back and see if we can get his signal up.
we know he and governor doocy put together a letter saying securing the border with mexico is the federal government's responsibility but the biden administration is unwilling or unable to do the job. the cartels will see to it that their deadly fentanyl and human trafficking victims reach far and wide. we'll have part two of our what happened in the wuhan investigation. former cdc director robert redfield call us out dr. fauci hand his odd reluctance to consider that the lab may have been the source. >> i hope tony steps back and looks at both hypothesis and he works hard to prove that his hypothesis is incorrect and people accept the hypothesis that i put forward. veteran homeowners, home values are at all-time highs. you could have much more equity than you think!
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>> martha: breaking news a short time ago, the federal government has lunched an investigation into how the national institute of health monitors some of its grant money. republicans are demanding answers against taxpayers funding research at the wuhan lab. dr. robert redfield says it's the most likely source of covid-19. the health inspector general is not specifying which grants
they're investigating. the grants and much more are covered in part 2 of dr. redfield's sit-down with fox news medical contributor, dr. marc siegel. watch this. >> i have known dr. fauci 40 years. he's an excellent scientist. scientists can form hypothesis that they basically oversupport. we've always done it. i'm a big advocate that we can teach the body how to heal it serve and cure hiv by redirecting host-directed immunity. a lot of people don't agree with that. some people say i hold on to that hypothesis too tightly. i think tony is holding on to this hypothesis tightly. now, why would that be? the reality is the only way new pathogens historically came into the human species is from a
zoonotic source. it's not like it's odd. this is the way it always question. now you have the other question as people do research, particularly in this range of we call gain of function research where we're taking natural pathogens that don't infect humans and doing things to them in the lab where they may gain the capability to infect humans. so i find it as a viroligost not feasible. even if we find the intermediate host, which we haven't found, it immediately learned how to be highly infection for man. so i think, you know -- sometimes scientists, when they get on -- they bite into a bone
on a hypothesis, it's hard for them to move on. i hope tony steps back and look at both hypothesis as i said and he works really hard to prove that his hypothesis is incorrect and people that accept the hypothesis that i put forward prove that hour hypothesis isn't correct. i think there's scientific arrogance that they can control any negative consequences. you have the lancet letter and then you have all of this push back and forth with e-mails that we're going back and forth with tony. seems like a lot of people want to squelch any idea that there was another hypothesis. that's what i find the most disappointing. i would expect that from politicians. i would expect that from governments. i would never expect that from the scientific community. yet what we witnessed is the
scientific community went on heavy to try to stop any open debate about the origins of this virus. i find that very sad and very anti-science. >> you were there when fauci talked to world leaders and said the lab leak was a possibility. that's about the only time we know of. he said that to me recently, by the way. very recently. what was that