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tv   Making Money With Charles Payne  FOX Business  October 7, 2021 2:00pm-3:00pm EDT

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enough pilots, people, plan what they expect to be a very busy holiday travel season. these are more reminders here, a lot of concerns about the pandemic, some of these cases spiking are easing to the point that a lot of these guys are looking to expand business and meet demand they're convinces is around the corner. something my buddy charlie payne has been talking about some time. he joins us right now. hey, charles. charles: thank you, neil. happy 25th anniversary, my friend. >> you too. charles: my name is charles payne and this is "making money." i said it a million times and say it again, the resolve of this market is remarkable and shouldn't guess when this rally is over. the latest reversal last 24 hours is proof. bitcoin, you never needed suit to tell you it was the real deal. i have two crypto pioneers, make
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the case, 100,000 easy, maybe higher than that the labor crisis has a whole lot of components including workers ghosting their jobs. finding good help is hard even the mob is complaining. that and so much more on "making money". ♪. charles: golly, what a difference a day makes, huh? yesterday's reversal continued this morning. obviously it picked up speed. while the headlines are focused on the d.c. debt ceiling truth there are other consequential issues improving. i think we're in the midst of an important inflection point. neil hit on it a moment ago. maybe these inflection points are what some people are seeing, starting to buy. obviously near term we'll be with a lot of issues, particular i inflation. however the delta variant coming down rapidly in america, including around the world, including countries init unat
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that grall. some are modeling for rate hikes next year i do not think it is going to happen but the street is comfortable with tapering. that is what is really important. we can deal with that meanwhile, folks, the resolve of this market continues to impress. i want to bring in leuthold group jim paulson. jim, this market particularly the last week it is ability to bounce back and bounce back quickly? >> charles, as you said we got demonstration that buy on the dip is still there mentality. there was as much fear on the bottom being in on a further downdraft as much as missing out if it rallies. so it has been a resilient market. i think what is helping it of late, to your point, i think what is really the main story here we're in another covid reopening cycle here. delta peaks and when that
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happens confidence improves, economic activities increase and with that comes rise in commodity prices, rise in bond yields. ultimately the big story to me as an investor is this might be less about a correction than it is about a leadership shift again due to the covid cycle where we were earlier when covid was rising focused more on growth stocks and tech stocks. now i think that's shifting back towards cyclical and small cap stocks, more economically sensitive value plays as the economic system picks up again. you know i point out the city group economic surprise index, charles, was minus 62 i believe in mid-september. as of this morning it is minus 14. it is almost heading back to zero as economic reports are starting to postively surprise again. charles: yeah, i'm with you on all of that and of course a lot of these areas where the supply chain issues are a problem like
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vietnam we're starting to see now vaccine rates really climbed dramatically. it is all connected. once the delta domino goes down a whole lot of others will probably follow. i do want to ask you about this i saw on the daily shot the probability of two fed rate hikes by the end of next year. i think that is overly ambitious. what are you thinking right now with respect to the fed not tapering, jim, but actually hiking rates? >> you know, charles, i think it is going to come down, the whole deal on hiking rates is all coming down to whether or not inflation is truly transitory or not and i think by the middle of next year we'll have a pretty good sense of that. and if it is and it does moderate again i think the fed will continue to follow its slow approach to monetary tightening here. so far outside of the transitory perhaps supply chain problems has been pretty good. we have really good growth,
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really good profitability, really good price action in stocks, in bonds for the most part, homes, everything has been going up and i think if inflation moderates the fed will not have much desire to want to quickly tighten again. so i sort of lean toward the view that is probably aggressive two, but tell you what if inflation is burning hot late spring, summer, the fed could easily do that before the end of 2022. charles: we'll see. jim, always great to be able to pick your brain on these things. thanks, my friend. >> thank you, charles. charles: everyone has to acknowledge as jim says it does not stay down too long. the greatest risk getting too cute as an investor, i will sit this out or pick the top. if you really are looking for the perfect entry point, folks, i have got a hint, you already missed it. joining me market watchers nicole webb, erin fix. erin let me start with you.
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you've been a little cautious. the session today and what we saw last friday, does it get you to change look beyond the headlines what is gnawing this market and what the possibilities could be six months to a year from now? >> yeah, absolutely. while i have been more cautious when we were really highly valued i was pretty comfortable with the entire decline in the last few weeks of september and i may have gotten in a bit early but i did add to some of the more beaten up stocks like sales force and applied materials. so you know, it is tough to time the market even on the dips but i really use these as opportunities to add to my positions. so i think that we definitely have a really good outlook going forward for the next 12 to 15 months. charles: you know it is interesting because it's tough to time the dip but you know you talk about a company like sales force or applied materials in a long-term portfolio i'm always
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going to sleep well at night even though they are high beta names i will always sleep well. nicole, your thoughts on the action today. what is the message this market is sending us now? >> twofold, i agree with what erin said about getting maybe a little bit ahead of this but it's tough to sell stock to buy cheaper stock. if you were a little bit ahead of this, i hope this market prompted you to buy some of these dips, look at some of the parts of the market that are not masked by the indices performance. what we do know about the market always it send as consistent message it doesn't like uncertainty. so while we weren't too terribly concerned we would go back to 2011 and allow for the u.s. to not raise the debt ceiling we did take advantage of this market and believe continuously that the resilience is here to stay. certainly through the end of the year. charles: to that point, there has been an enormous amount of
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carnage in this market being, masked by these indices. people say oh, the s&p is up 20% or up 16% but just coming into the week the s&p 500, you take all of those stocks, the average one down 17% from the-year high. in nasdaq 38%, russell 34%. you were buying that weakness, right, nicole? >> absolutely. and on top of it when we getdown drafts in down dafts in the midt of turmoil, we're not abandoning growth in technology. we like the technology plus space where the business lines are more diversified across not just being a single platform. we also think that rates are going to chill and kind of self-sustain here through the fourth quarter. so we do think there will be a pop back in technology. in addition as we heard you know, you kicked off the show with, we think the street looks
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prime for cyclicals and values. interconnectedness of the downplay now of delta is going to shift there. i don't think fourth quarter is about value versus growth. i think it is being specific who you buy in each of those sectors in q4 and there is a lot of potential there. charles: still a stock-pickers market. erin, what do you think the biggest risks are right now for the remainder of the year? >> so my top three is inflation fears would be one that could really turn the market most easily. the second would be another sort of variant that would send economies into closing down and slowing down globally, not just in the u.s. then the third is really massive deterioration in china, seeing more defaults and slowing growth there. that is order of likelihood. i don't think the second two will really happen. i think the biggest fear is inflation risk and how we --
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charles: is it inflation, is it it inflation what it might force the fed to do or is it inflation what it might do to bottom lines? in other words a lot of folks are saying ride it out, when the demand slows down a little bit the consumer will reappear? >> it is more about the fed because they have the biggest power. it is hard for the consumers to digest higher prices so far they have been relatively resilient and companies have been able to you know, adjust those prices or just take slightly lower profits. or just not -- the product. charles: right. >> really -- that is the biggest impact on the market. charles: of course don't forget about shrink-nlation. those packages are getting smaller and smaller. we appreciate it. every industry having trouble finding qualified workers. even the mob, folks.
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later in the hour why millenial mobsters are becoming the mafia's downfall. the claim of not raising the debt ceiling wiping out your entire retirement. that claim got kenny polcari a little bit jacked. he is here and he is next. gold. your strategic advantage. new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today.
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♪. >> we're going to be defaulting on a debt that would lead to self-inflicted wounds that risk the market tanking wiping out retirement savings and costing jobs. charles: man, president biden laying it on pretty thick as he gathered top u.s. bankers, all of them really together to paint this sort of picture of economic armageddon if the debt ceiling wasn't hiked. is it likely, well, listen it will not be hiked, at least in place until december but we're going to have to probably queue up the ghosts in the machine and the drama is not over. i want to bring in slatestone wealth kenny polcari. kenny, what do you make of this theater, these claims, the failure to raise the debt ceiling would wipe out retirement savings? that is it, folks, if we don't do this by tomorrow everything you worked for is gone? >> charles, i got to tell you i found it extremely irresponsible
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for the president of the united states to stand up there, over the last, not even just yesterday with the comments about wiping out your retirement savings. think about that for one minute. think about what those words mean, wiping out your retirement savings, right? when there was nowhere near, the country was not anywhere near defaulting on its debt. we never defaulted on its debt. we'll never default on our debt. to use histrionics and disaster, wipe out retirement savings of all the americans it is beyond me. i sat there at my desk, i was cringing at the thought, here is the leader of the free world, kind of spewing this -- who is allowing him to even say that on television? where are his economic advisors? where are these people that advise him because it did nothing. then he hosts that gathering yesterday with jane frazier from citibank and friedman from nasdaq and they had them chime in about the markets under
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duress because of the debt ceiling. the market is not under duress because of debt ceiling. out of control inflation, interest rates rising, uncertain monetary policy, china flying planes over taiwan. so much more to be concerned about than a debt ceiling would be raised any way. you and i know, charles, we've been around this block for a number of years. charles: just real quick, i have to be honest with you, when jamie dimon starts to preach about morality, any of these wall street executives, come on. talking your book. give me a break. don't tell the american public about morality when they can't raise their own debt ceiling. a lot are fighting the gas prices to your point and miscues they have to live with, they can't simply raise limit on their credit cards. >> right, right. so you know when they get up there, yesterday, when i saw that, i almost, sitting there drinking coffee, i spit it out over my keyboard because i couldn't believe what i was hearing jane frazier say, dina friedman, janet yellen is another one.
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treasury secretary, she is using thee inflammatory words to create all of this angst, for what? we all know it would happens right, to the 11th hour, we have to do it to create drama in d.c. i think it's a shame. it provided opportunity. the market sold off 3 or 4%. you saw names get beaten up for no reason. look at them they're all rallying strong. i took advantage. bought on weakness. look at it today. charles: hey, also want to ask you, i have a minute to go but yesterday we saw a strong adp jobs report. your thoughts on tomorrow we get the jobs number. your thoughts what we may see and what the market will react, how the market will react? >> i think i said in my note yesterday, i thought the adp number would be a little stronger. in fact it was. tomorrow's number will be stronger just because last month was so, so weak i think you're going to see some of that bounce back this month. i wouldn't be surprised if we see a little uptick.
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if it's a strong number, brings the whole fed conversation back into place and tapering, interest rates, so i think the markets back off a little bit. a kind of warm numb better than expected and if it is weak number, gives the fed to go we're not there yet. everybody slow down. they will keep pumping money into the system. i would like it to be warm, not superhot and not a disappointment for sure. charles: sounds great. kenny, always appreciate you talking to. check out the purgatory recipe, my friend. >> great sicilian dish. charles: all righty. president biden by the way planning to hold a virtual summit with china's president xi but will a zoom call really curb china's growing active provocation? they are getting more belligerent. no one better to answer that former white house trade advisor peter navarro. he will give his take next.
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♪. charles: while the world continues to grapple with the scourge of covid-19 vaccinations are increasing, deaths certainly declining a lot. there is certainly hope now to be honest with you nobody could imagine back in march of 2020. put yourself back there. moreover president trump announced the getting a vaccine by the end of that year the entire medical community scoffed and meanwhile the media slammed him for uneducated optimism. we got there, one much many ways, if not the greatest short term feat in american and human history. my next guest chronicled this monumental achievement in his new book, in trump time, a journal of america's plague year. peter navarro is with us. peter you were there, you heard the naysayers, the experts couldn't be done. what was it about president trump they did not, that they
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underestimated? >> yeah, let me take you inside of the room, charles. by the way it is great to see you. let me take you to go february 9th, 2020, i document this in the trump time book. i'm sitting in my office in the white house. i am one of the few people, other than the president who believes that we're facing a serious pandemic and i attend what will be a serious of a dozen memos. this first one on february 9th says that if we begin spending money and moving this right now we can have a vaccine by october or november. okay? so on february 9th i predicted we could have this in trump time which is to say quickly as possible. what was the magic sauce, charles? again i document this in "in trump time." we went from the traditional sequential paradigm developing vaccines to a simultaneous one. what do i mean by that?
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traditionally big pharma will find the vab seen candidate first. then they will go through aer zoo is of phase one, two, and three trials for safety and efficacy and it is then and only then that they begin to think about mass producing the vaccine. president trump turned that on its head. charles: right. >> we said we'll do this all simultaneously. we didn't, my memo i didn't use the warp speed. i wasn't born yet as a phrase t was multiple shots on goal. charles: sure. >> what we said was we were going to prepare to mass produce every single candidate, that question would put forward even if that candidate didn't, didn't pan out. right? we figured that it was better to spend that kind of money and have all possibilities there. that is how president trump did it. it was really a beautiful thing. charles: you really had to be a true political outsider and someone who is used to you know,
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not conforming, right? because, again, it was always, okay, you find a drug, phase one, two, three. you put in an nda, new drug application, you wait two or three years. someone had to come outside the box thinking shatter that and the world is grateful for this. i want to ask you about something else. you have been strong about. this cnn had a special, origins of covid-19. there was quote, no clear culprit and no quote, smoking gun. your thoughts on that? >> in trump time we'll career that up unequivocally. that virus was from the wuhan lab. it was likely paid for by american taxpayer money through dr. anthony fauci and it was fauci and now the disgraced francis collins who were responsible for lifting the ban in 2017 behind the back of president trump on this gain of
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function experimentation. charles, you know what that is? it is experiments that take what would be a bat virus that can't transmit to humans and turn sitting that can kill you. charles: yeah. >> fauci right now, i few him as custer's last stand. i'm coming at him, in trump time the book, with three cannons on his right flank he has got this beautiful book by sherry marx, what really happened in wuhan. and on the left literally robert kennedy, jr., is coming in with a book that will really eviscerate fauci. here is the thing, charles, fauci knew as early as january 2020 based on emails we've seen now this thing likely came from the lab and he didn't tell the president. if i had known, if the defense policy act coordinator and tip of the president's spear along a lot of these things, we could have saved hundreds of thousands
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of lives because we could have had a completely different strategy. charles: sure. >> fauci lied by omission to the president, he subsequently covered it up in february and march with efforts at both the world health organization and things like nature magazine and lancet to basically make people think this thing came from nature. it did not. yes, sir. charles: we want, we want answers. i hope the world never stops asking. we all know where it came from but we want to hear top officials admit as much and we want to make sure it never happens again. i think "in trump time" critical book. 170,000 copies already ordered. well on the way to a best circle. peter navarro. talk to you again real soon. >> great to see you, charles. charles: speaking of amazing bitcoin has been on fire. now there are more people who are, jumping on the bandwagon. you know what? this is all part of the retail investor revolution. plus, forget about it.
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♪. charles: i've been calling it the great workers strike. others are calling it the great resignation. no matter the name this labor crisis is very real and nothing we've seen before. in fact the even the mob having trouble finding quality workers. susan li with the details. reporter: iconic the godfather
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music, charles. it is market with workers looking at one million plus more available jobs than looking for work. workers have more market power, more choice. for employers it is tough to find good help these days. they have to even pay higher wages. a dallas fed study that you picked out here, former employees are more reluctant to go back to their old jobs. a growing number say no, they would not go back to their old jobs for the same pay. so the jobs market is so good, there is this emerging trend called ghosting where employees are quitting their jobs, starting new ones without telling the old bosses they're leaving. one in 50 are ghosting their old companies. they say the ghosting trend is likely at certain companies like cisco, jpmorgan, oracle. ghosting more likely to happen at facebook indeed, intuit and even uber. many viewers are thinking, this must be more of a trend amongst the younger workers.
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maybe, possibly but things are so bad, eastern the mob and mafia are finding it difficult to get good help these days. older members complaining the millenials, in a "wall street journal" piece that grabbed a lot of attention, they say that those grew up on suburbs in city streets are softer, dumber and not as loyal as mobsters in the past. plus they're always texting. so it is not gang warfare or snitches that might bring down the mon here, charles. mismanagement, bad hires apparently. charles: [laughter]. yeah, you know, when you need somebody, they can't be texting, okay? thanks a lot. >> or from the suburbs. charles: yeah. it feels like the greatest jobs market in history being in part by the greatest pity party in history. how does something good like 11 million jobs turn into maybe a missed opportunity. joining me now trend macro cio donald luskin. don, even the mafia can't find good workers. what the heck is going on?
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>> look, can we get a grip here? wasn't it just a couple of years ago that the big narrative about everything that was going on with the world was that you would never want to hire any of these people anyway because of robotics and ipads being put in place for people to take your order at strawns? restaurants. whatever happened to that? if the robots are coming, ipads are coming, why are we so desperate to hire people? i tell you why? we have an earnings season coming up. in every earnings season there are companies that miss and companies that beat. for every earnings season for there is always a excuse for that quarter. dollar too strong. trump put tariffs on china. oh, i couldn't get any workers. mr. ceo, it is your job to find the workers. i think you can do it or we'll find a new ceo. charles: on that point, i do think this is a period for
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companies who are legitimately having trouble that they will make those investments. we know they have been coming but they talk about how last year a lot of things that were on the table that were going to evolve over five years truncated and pulled forward. >> right. charles: do you see, i think this sort of investing, right, this, type of investments we'll see now from these companies, whether it is i.t., any of these things, i think it is booming right now? >> of course it is. you're absolutely right. in any period of hardship there is always a pull forward of technology at option. you have to do it to survive. it is not just the physical or the i.t. technologies that are put in place at the workplace, point of service either. it is also customers preferences that change. we could well be in a world where restaurant customers just don't want to go in anymore. they want everything drive-by. so that is a formula at the end of the day for fewer workers necessary and customers having the experience they prefer.
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so this is going to be a awkward adolescence. we'll have to figure this out. consumers are. producers are. but when this is done everything that we have learned will make this an economic boom. it will all make us more happy and more productive. charles: certainly i'm telling you this sort of, this investments in business cap-ex spending huge. before we go i want to talk about the other side of equation. we're focused on workers. you focused on bosses. pity parties are good too. coinbase, brian armstrong that many business leaders will quit because they are scrutinized very much. interesting comments that came on the heat on mark zuckerberg. i don't know if he was feeling sorry for him but do we need a c-suite space for these ceos? >> i think everybody should be safe from a appropriation or ceo
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of a giant corporation or proprietor of a little shop, you get a lot of hate from people that envy you. i'm not in favor of that. on the other hand mr. coinbase ceo, this is why you make the big bucks. you've got a lot of power. mark zuckerberg, you have got a lot of power. america was born out of the, out of the suspicion of too much power. you are going to be asked some tough questions and you should. your job, the reason you make the billions because you need to give the american public those answers. so i don't think we want too much safe space for ceos. charles: aka, man up. don, always a pleasure. thank you very much. love our conversations. >> thank you. charles: crypto having a hell of a week, in fact a hell of a few weeks, there appears to be a whole lot room to run. i talk to two crypto bulls who say the party is just now getting started. also the train leaving the station on the market today. if you've been cautious maybe it
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charles: all right, folks, don't look now but crypto has been on fire led by bitcoin. it has been the best performing asset class during this very volatile, turbulent time. now the bandwagon is filling up quickly as the suits are climbing on board. really i don't have anything against traditional wall street but i find it insulting when the financial media always now, have you been watching? they always bring these suits on, ignoring the true pioneers eye -- ironically expert guests. they have come down from the ivory towers because they like bitcoin. i will keep it real with you all the time. you know what, the folks that saw the light first need to be in the spotlight right now. they continue to educate the public including my next two guests, wendy o and bitcoin author jayson williams. wendy, you have a huge social media following, show, crypto
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media and thanks for coming on. quickly, how did you know, when did you see the crypto blockchain, know it would be this solution nary. first and foremost, charles, thanks for having me on. i also appreciate the verbiage you used. you said ivory tower that is exactly what it was. when i first found out about bitcoin it was 2011. i had no idea what it was. i didn't think i was tech-savvy enough or smart enough to do anything in tech. then 2017 came around, end of 2017 i kept hearing about it a lot. i decided it was time for me to dump money in, see what happened. i was in a transition part of my life. once i actually bought bitcoin i started to dive down the rabbit hole to find out about what was really going on with the government, with the federal reserve, with spending, with money t forced me to educate myself. charles: uh-huh. well, jason, my man, first of all, welcome back. you have been on the show.
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in fact everything you predicted happened so far so tell me what happens next? >> i think there are some interesting things in our future. i'm going to focus on one thing in particular. we have the largest intergenerational wealth transfer in history going on right now. it is about 30 to $60 trillion of inheritance that will be passed from baby boomers to millenials and gen-x. millenials will be the overwhelming beneficiary of that. their earning potential and power will go way up. here is the opportunity. 66% of these baby boomers, the children, don't intend on staying with their parents financial advisor. 70% of these financial advisors have never taken the time to meet with these children and establish any type of relationship. so you have this great wealth transfer to these digital natives who are looking for digitally native assets, nfts. you heard of those before and bitcoin in particular.
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so you've got digitally native millenials. they love about it coin. they want the hardest money ever created. charles: all right. hey, along that line i saw today where public.com announcing crypto trading on their platform. they will start with 10 coins including doge. wendy, there are thousands of coins. you talked about diving into this rabbit hole. this is where it gets confusing. how are you deciding which ones are worth it? we all like to take a flyer, we have want the coin that goes up 100,000%. how are you making those decisions? >> the way i make those decisions i'm looking for things and projects that have actual utility. jason mentioned nfts are superhot. people are excited about them, most importantly the technology behind nfts. i think it is smart to look at alternative chains to ethereum that support the nft growth. there are a lot of great projects. support ones that support
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nfts. dive down the rabbit holes. see which projects help those systems grow and bet on those. charles: jason i talked about the suits coming into this. climbing on the bandwagon, you see them on financial television explaining all of this now. of course they were dissing this whole thing a couple years ago. on that note citadel's founder slammed cryptocurrency. he said it is jihadist action against dollar. he said if the youngsters had passion towards crypto would make the united states stronger. what is he missing? you sort of talked about this. this is the attitude. does this make the united states stronger. >> i don't ask my grandmother what the next great cell phone technology is. when i hear these guys, the bubble gang participants, where is peter schiff? charles: [laughter]. we got to get you and peter back together.
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meantime, it has been a fantastic having you and wendy together. wendy, you're remarkable, great stuff. i appreciate it. learned a lot from you. congratulations on your journey. you too, jason, my friend. see you both soon. reminder i am hosting a new investor revolution town hall november 9th, 2:00 p.m. eastern time. email me your questions at investedinyou@fox.com. email us if you want to join us in the studio. in new york in the studio we're going to have a blast. we're a few moments away from the final hour of trading. the bounceback is here you know that, this is how you buy but how do you buy? i have the perfect guest to tell you. we have some ideas for you. we'll be right back. at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner
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so time to bring in simpler trading director of options danielle shay, along with keith fitzgerald, danielle, i read your work and i read it a lot and i see where you have been cautious too recently. is that changing in the last 24 hours? >> car el, it's changing a little bit but honestly until we can get up above 4,450 in the s&p, i'm going to have to remain cautious, because due to september and the pullback that we got we just have a lot of overhead resistance. this week we've seen a nice rally, but we could potentially get news unless more stocks in this market can really have the buyers come in. charles: keith? >> i've got to tell you, caution is the name of the game, but so is optimism. if you cower in the sidelines all the time you'll miss the rally that's just the way the markets work so buy low, sell hi, risk management is a different question entirely.
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charles: so earnings season right around the corner and we're getting mixed signals there, recently there have been some revisions but there's also this sort of notion that you want to buy stocks as we go into earnings season, and danielle, you've talked about this , you know, this run into earnings. could this change your mind, could you become a little bit more opportunistic with these earnings coming out? >> you know, charles, this is my favorite trading, so the october quarter can be a little bit weak, when we have to focus on the relative strength winners especially after the september that we got. so right now, what i'm looking at, in particular, are the tickers that have been able to stay up above those areas of support and they're still showing strength and they perform really well the past couple of quarters. that's going to include microsoft, google, tesla, these are companies that historically do trade higher in that 21 bar
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timeframe going into earnings. charles: well it's interesting with tesla, that even they were selling it held up and even had a big rally to your point, keith what are you looking at as we go into earnings season? >> danielle made a very sharp point. you gotta stick with what works, the window dressing, the big money is adding names they want to see clients asking about so the usual suspects are going to lead the charge, everybody focuses on growth, apple, microsoft, people like jpmorgan, visa, that's where i think the money comes into the end of the year. charles: so, keith, then what are you concerned about? danielle expressed some miss givings, just we're almost there , it feels like. you just talked about listen, being cautious but also being optimistic. what's the one thing in between there that maybe tilts it in the wrong direction? >> the fed. bar none. we're learning to live with the virus we get that, we're learning to understand vaccines we get that but the fed has already caused the next three crisis and the key not actually
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the fed itself, it's what all of the big money does it's highly leveraged, borrowed everything they can to trade so to me, the fed has got to keep a lid on things or at least manage what they're doing, and that bar none , it's the single biggest thing i lose sleep over. charles: the buy on dips, #buyon dips worked over and over and over again, this market, danielle, has had this resolve for such a long period of time. do you see it running out of steam? obviously we have issues you've expressed but to me we've had worse things and tougher hills to climb and we've climbed those walls off worry. >> charles i'm still buying the dip. i don't think that we're ever going to see a market like we saw in 2020 again where it's basically going straight up, but i mean -- charles: sure. >> october is historically a weak time, and it's a great time to come in and buy stocks. i mean, we typically have these
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government-related events in october, and i just think that it's a very normal thing, and i think that overall, investors should be cautious on a short-term timeframe but long term, still buying. charles: #buythe dip. danielle, keith, great stuff. that's what we talk about this is called making money after all. we got lauren simonetti in for liz claman, and you know what? we kind of drifted a little bit, lauren but last hour of trading it's always eventful. lauren: drifting but still up pretty nicely, 350 on the dow charles thank you very much. investors raising the roof after a catastrophic debt default seem s to be averted for now, the dow and the nasdaq and the s&p 500 all up about 1%, the nasdaq, the outperformer today appointed a quarter percent, and turning positive for the week. markets getting a lift from that temporary truth in the debt ceiling standoff, lawmakers reaching a deal on a

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