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tv   Conflict Zone - Guest Moshe Yaalon  Deutsche Welle  January 22, 2022 10:30pm-11:00pm CET

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school packs a punch pizza gold mine for the global music industry. and so much more for the artists. i am so happy to be black and fro beats. 30 minutes on d. w. d w's crime fighters are back a little bit africa. most successful radio drama series continues them all episodes are available online. and of course you can share and discuss on d, w, africa's facebook page, and other social media platforms, crime fighters, tune in. now when it comes to the nuclear talks between iran and the international community, no country is watching as closely as israel. it's air force is struck repeatedly as the radial supplies and munitions wherever it can find them. this week comfort zone
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talks to the form is range defense minister moshe ja lawn who slammed the 2015 u. k agreement as an historic mistake talks or low talk. israel he says, i have just one priority is really boise is very flu by one way or another. the military and local level board in the launch would be stop. we also talk about the spike in violence impacts by jewish settlers against palestinian more than 400 were loved last year alone. why is the state so reluctant to confront the federal id found one of these railey army, which the u. n accuses are standing by and letting the attacks happen. also a shocking instruction that at least one israeli, so do was given by his commanders about treating palestinian prison. all that and more on complet,
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the general, marcia, ya long welcome to conflicts own thank you for having me. when the west side, the nuclear deal with iran in 2015, you joined the chorus of protest against it. you said it was a threat to world peace or reward for uninhibited terror and historic mistake. now i have a sense, trump withdrew from the court. you've wished it was still in force. you've even code is withdraw the main mistake of the last decade in iran, paula say it's a bit late to cry crocodile to redo it, rejected outright when it was signed, isn't it? i believe that a j. c. p o i of 2015 was the stoic mistake. as i believe there was an open unity and because of the pressure imposed upon the right under the gym to which mo, in this specific deal. nevertheless,
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the idea or for a living is a yeah, j c p o, a led by president tom was another mistake. there wasn't a plan b. when the president tom decided to leave a deal actually to violate it without any plan. and by doing it, he lost the international coalition and the land and had kills to go ahead with the project. without any limitation, you failed to see any good in the agreement when it was signed. and you crucially failed to look ahead and appreciate how bad things might get without such an agreement. how did you get it so wrong? game aunt was missing, opportunity is i believe that it comes to what will be done. now. it goes out and was present, come in, a came to the table under pressure. he was told by his economist that the one of
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the gym would be able to survive another year and off it his in his strategy in which he was challenged by international coalition. isolating him in danger, national arena, clipping economic sanctions, which is the main domain toll and a credible military option. that's why those out and where he was ready to be engaged with the get sat down with america, with many apologies to explaining what was so terrible about this agreement, it extended the time iran would need to obtain enough fis on material for a bomb. it obliged iran to scale back uranium enrichment for up to 15 years, dramatically reduced the number of centrifuges by 2 thirds investor, and it allowed a rigorous inspection of iranian nuclear facilities. how was that an historic
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mistake? let's be honest, the historic mistake was yours in condemning that deal wasn't this came, you are very right. but the j. c. p. o, a, the grim and didn't deal with me says project report i formation of until which a still relevant today as written yesterday. but the iranian a talk on it then you eat it gets in dobby and if you can, all the military dimensions of the project, unfortunate in 2015 the us administration was, you know, harvey tuition agreement rather than to deal with all of those issues. and that was a mistake. yeah. but no, no, no such thing as a perfect deal is that you of all people should know that you get what you can at the time and you build on it. that's how it works, doesn't it? i claimed, and i still claim that we would have wished more, nevertheless,
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that i could decide the thump initiative to violate the do as we did it was actually done deal it so it should kept it and come with a new strategy using could think sanctions to put the energy again under pressure to have a considerable military option. and to try to have an international coalition to isolate the gym by say, 3 elements which might be still relevant to the bottom of the session today, you're talking about applying maximum pressure general. this is a policy that failed before it failed because it was meant to limit iran's nuclear activities and they didn't do that. it was meant to low regional tensions and it didn't do that. and you want to make the same mistake again, applying maximum pressure. you told a jewish inside the jewish inside a last month. let's forget about a j. c p. o, a. there's no chance to go back. but to create pressure again,
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based on political isolation of the regime as well as crippling economic sanctions . who says, who says there's no chance of going back to the jcp? you've got all the permanent members of the security council last, germany investing huge effort in getting the deal back. what you're trying to do undermine the talks. now, you want the talks to fail with your service. absolutely. right. but nowadays, my proposal to us administration. let's create a coalition again as it was in 2012, 2015 and it was in 2010. when is a national invest in united nations security council with china and russia on both voting for sanctions? and unfortunately, the comp policy actually broke down broke down the coalition. the by does this question?
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sure. great. again, a correlation which will impose pressure on the gym repair on the factors on the gym and having a lot of military option to threaten that. james, to come back to the dilemma of some of the ability. oh, going on with all of it is on top of it. look it up order years. but what, what really undermines the talks at the moment is your, is your prime minister, natalie bennett, going around saying, well, whatever the deal is, i'm not going to be bound by it. does he really want to talk to fail? he said, israel is not bound by what will be written in the agreements if that sign it. israel will continue to maintain full freedom of action anywhere anytime with no constraints. how do you think that looks in tehran? what's the point of the iranians, even signing up for the talks? if irrespective of the results you're going to bond them. if you feel like it, what's the point of them even turning out?
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he's really point is very clue. by one way or not. well, the military, no collateral, or just any yvonne should be stopped. of course we prefer to to which it, by a diplomacy, by sanction us and not by military or operation. but if this is what will be the only option by one way or another, the middle of the nuclear projects would be stop. now we allows the use of ministration to be engaged. we are involved now. if it wasn't the case in the time of obama, unfortunately, we've been involved in negotiations. we are involved, we are open, general. some is that ministration and not really the session will come out with such a policy that will reach again the shipment of voting that you know, i know that jim, in what i mentioned. and i,
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lemme of sort of of ability or going on with over d, v d 's. no, just the know, cut out activities. what the united become to be the best, the realize that in the vision, in lebanon and in iraq, in syria, in africa. so i believe that even the generational community shouldn't tolerate this kind of, you know, policy, that's what i propose. but instead of waving a sticker, them the whole time, why not offer some carrots instead? that was the advantage of the deal, which you so hated in 2015 and now which you still had. it gave the markets in iran some leverage it gave them. you cannot make incentives and sanctions relief. but you didn't like that. you're like that either. but that was what was key to them and that strengthened the position of the markets inside iran. the margins are nowhere now in iran, of a sanction for leaf might be able only after we jangle
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the goal of giving up the nuclear project, it is built a civilian one. there is no dispute about it, although it was in the past, it's a military border. by all means they should give up it. then we can be able to talk about sanctions. well, if not, vice versa. you say it's a military project, but you admitted you have no idea. if iran is going to produce a bomb or not, you tell the jewish inside a last month. we don't know about whether they make any progress on the military dimension of the project. we believe they're still very cautious, very careful not to do it because they're afraid of the response. if that's true, why all the hostile rhetoric and the threats about bombing, you don't even know whether they tend to bomb. jamie, if it looks like a duck swims like dogs, flies like that. it's a duck. it's a military project. now if you have a gym wasn't challenged by you to
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a national community, as well as by israel. we believe that they would have reached an out bob years ago . you know, i, so does that of intelligence is a night, is result to believe that in a success. so you have to post as a mortgage the bomb within a decade because of the challenge. diplomatically, economically, military, li, covert operations. they, they have a bridget general. yeah. let's talk a bit about the palestinians. if we may, 2 months ago, un human rights experts expressed alarm at the growing incidence of settle and violence directed at palestinians. they say these are the highest recorded levels in recent years. last year to the end of october, the u. i logged 410 attacks by settlers on palestinians, 302 against property, 108 against individuals. why does your government do you think view that acceptable?
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it lets the numbers of these attacks rise every year. i call them any violation, any violence protected by joseph again, but his genius did, you know that we shouldn't allow malicious but the problem is that we tried again and again, i would have said since i don't of that isn't any kind of understanding with the palestinians. what is called a tall compromise, and in any case, any story to include the after all law. and we've boomers in is when we 1st violence as a result to any israeli proposal. filter it on a compromise. so i can see what we call a final settlement to zone eisen or the other hand, we shall do what i did, the defense minister to improve the situation normally in 1st block. so
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security. but you know, i don't, i of done isn't, we haven't better. but if you don't leadership which are ready to leave with side by side, the joy state and a power steering and state. and this is a main challenge, is the main gap. well, well, not understood by many let also also as well. let's come back to the violence because as you said, you, you promised 8 years ago that you would deal with this issue of settler violence. you said we will not permit marginal extreme and violent groups to take control by force of land that is not that in violation of the law or to threaten palestinian residents who are working their own land. that's what you said almost exactly 8 years ago. but that's exactly also what israel has allowed them to do the settlers to do over and over again. at the end of 2020, your government had approved 138 settlements in the west bank. but you tolerated
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a 150 outposts even though that illegal on these the very land grabs that you pledged 8 years ago to stop. you know, you can go back to my all as a, as a chief of general staff and defend ms though. i didn't tolerate any illegal activity whether the settlement or violence against palestinians that you'd be the only policy, but no doubt that the israeli, the jewish violence not to compare to tell that jose i talked it's not a ques to a low jewish bible as i am against the but no doubt that the main element which affect the relationship between is and the palestinian is the palestinian until which unfortunately j to generated by of ignored in many cases by her mood
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above. no. talking about thomas anthony stands and we shall fight it back in order to allow the part a city on today and you dance and to live in, in a peace in took in and joined dignity. it was so whatever. but you know, we didn't get from god. we evacuated all the joy from god. well, why should they got downstairs? but instead of got a large oak, it's again still a be because they don't see the end of the conflict along what is called the lines of 67. this is a challenge. so we should manage it. we should act accordingly. but nevertheless, in mine and i don't want to see by lot the, i don't want to see it by national state as well as i don't see if i don't set the mental eyes. and so we should manage the
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conflicts in a way that would be able to settle late in the future. the issue of settler violence has caused big divisions inside the cabinet of natalie bennett. earlier this month, the deputy economy minutes, the yeah, go land, singled out settlers from the west bank home mesh, outpost, calling them sub human after they vandalized gravestones in a nearby palestinian village. the response from the prime minister was these are shocking generalizations bordering on blood libel. settlement activity in the west bank represents modern day pioneering. in other words, settlers can do no wrong. why do you think with your hind sight and with benefit of having been defense minister? why do you think that the government is still pretending that all the settlers are angels and turning a blind eye to this violence? because this violence matters?
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you say it's not the main issue. it matters enormously to palestinians, trying to have a decent life on the land that you've left them. team you will look at the israeli, but it's not complete. for that set of bio last point of view. i don't get all right. any violence represented by the central. but what's your government about government government is there is no even a thing that teams that there is no a single settler in the gods asleep. why showed of the policy nor for the got asleep. now joe gets to tell of you. so, you know, the problem is not the way that you look at it and i can then and don't, don't tolerate any violence perpetrated by june. there's another aspect of this as alarming a number of reports of surface that israeli soldiers have stood by and watched palestinians being attacked and then turned on some of the victims themselves. why
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do you think that has been happening? game you look at certain videotapes which are concentrating on such a behavior is not the case. they're all and they're all those to israeli soldiers as well as the policeman. deployed in the dan somehow is not to allow such violence in something for it. you might take a picture in which you see the soldiers watching. at the end of the day, they operate against the violence of the settlers. this is a mission and they should do it this way. for years the world has been told that you have the most moral army in the world. we're also told that you investigate accusations of excessive force, but it's, it's very rare that a soldier is held culpable. and the explanation is almost always that he was just one rocking the apple, a wild weed, as you call them,
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you got along with that. we keep in the idea if very strict lower values as well as the rules of engagement. just looking back to what i dealt with when i sell does a defense minister the, incidentally, the soldier in high born which was at the end sentence and imprisoned. because he shot you head off, neutralize the total waste when he wasn't under any risk of life. those our values and we did, we impose it very strictly. that's why you do in separate cases. unfortunately, we had to deal with soldiers. all policemen were going on a bay. those all keep our values. that's why we claim, yes. the i v f is
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a very high wall. it all me and the come out of this keeps the horse and the values very strictly. a man who would take issue with that is colonel slow me too poor a who's defended? a number of soldiers accused of mistreating prisoners. he asked one of them recently if he'd been briefed by his superiors on how to treat people in detention who no longer posed a threat. the soldiers said he had been briefed. his commanders had told him not to leave marks showing that a prisoner had been beaten up. so the only issue for the soldier and presumably others as well was how to beat up the detainees and not leave marks. is that the symbol of a moral ami? a tree which is not so simple to judge a show soldier in a very dense situation in which is something cases you might be wrong and judging situation. sol, joe, i know you and the rest. every case. it might be saying under intense situation,
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that someone is always, but at the end of the day after investigated, it might be a long judgment. but to investigate any case, you know, we did you deal with it? these are the soldiers. violence also holds him all. you know, is that even in the in defensive shield operation? oh, in edge a persian and i know what i'm talking about. i am both operations. i was participating as a chief of general staff or as a defense minister at the end of the day when we talked about non involved casualties. the numbers not to compare to what was done and i'm going to start over. you need up when you operate, severe civilian environment in which that they always are using the civil
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civilians as human shield. you might kill unimed vote to make it could damage, but we judge and we investigate ellison, you asian also reaching such a consequences. so yes, i claim, and i insist on it. the idea is a more well i'll be keeping more various dealing with it most in the most strict way than any armed forces in the israel. current defense minister benny gan. so the u. s. last month, his government is taking steps to build trust with the palestinians. the current government doesn't even mention the palestinians, but it's clear that the idea of a 2 state solution is over. they don't want and the prime minister has made it clear he's not going to give the palestinians of fate. why should the palestinians
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talk to you if that their major hope has been ruled out? why should they bother? you know that even late me sobbing. is it 5 in the defense minister said about the vision that he he looked envisioned as a by minister amounts. me always unfortunate of the nation. you said that the palestinian authority will be at the end, less than a state. they're going to be the military. and we are responsible to all secuity now does stands out dependent on the 2nd is that a currency, the eco, the economy is dependent on is for fluctuate water supply, electricity. this is unique situation. so the why did they call themselves the policy of the empire? is at the end is less than a state autonomy or whatever. he's a case, this is very reality because you in the 54 years of occupation. that's the reality
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isn't it? came you are very long. i come to his island. i show you what we did, didn't you then somebody, and i said there's a, do you then somebody at the vision come on their own. on, of course, as a chief of general stuff, then joined the political independence, their own parliament, government, and president. it's up to them and they decided to be divided to 2 different entities. while the parts genesis d and your dad summary, and what is a hostile it's up to that. we have not deployed any more in gaza. they decided to model fixture and walk. it's either then to export to whatever that decision that choice. now, mo, determined and committed to destroy it. well, i don't then to be a bill on
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a political entity. this is a case it is it i can tell you about we could talk about this much longer and i'm sure we could argue over it much longer. but for the moment general moshe. yeah, la, thanks very much for being on conflicts and thank you for your time. ah ah ah, with
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