tv Frag den Lesch Deutsche Welle December 31, 2021 12:45am-1:01am CET
says on the future of europe is an unseen exercise. well, we try to combine representative democracy with participatory democracy. the synthesis where you're talking about in totally 800 selected, randomly select that people are not her or not dad to give their opinion. ah, and it's over. no, no, they are participating in the decision making process. it's for the 1st time, i think in, in, in a modern democracy that citizens are directly involved in the decision making process. that is what we are doing. i'd say, well, i went them and not many of them either. not many of them. the numbers taking that known as natalia that is, are so smallest about almost irrelevant. i don't know. i don't know. there are, for the moment that are, for the moment, 4000000 people will are on the platform who have got access to the digital platform. the conference on the future of europe. there are $10.10 of
several, tens of thousands war on daily basis. debating on the future offer d a european union, and in top of that, that has been in a scientific way, 800 people selected. and all these people have nothing to do with european union to participate in the decision making process. we have seen such err. yeah, what we called citizens convention, already in france already in ireland, already in germany. but it's for the 1st time that it is organized on a ben european level. and my expectation of this exercise is not to listen to the citizens because we know what the citizens want. we have the euro barrow meter, we have surveys, like it's in the gaze also in britain. note, the big difference is that the citizens are, are selected, will continue to participate in not only formulating recommendations, but also in the answers the yet, the bullet since well diff to their wishes and to do recommendations. you said to
regain people's trust in democracy. we need to fundamentally revisit the way democracy's work, so they are 4 and with the people instead of that, why not concentrate on result? yes. find a way for 27 different countries to put together on the major problems that are facing them. something that they have because picking up the phone to do so for what i what? well, for the simple reason that the pressure that can be created by a participation of the citizens will be so huge that i am, i am confident that way you can find 2 ways to break the resistance off of some members states to go forward inside european union, we need the power of the people, we need the power of the citizens inside this conference to go to barriers, for example, the barrier of unanimity. and secondly, yeah,
we need this also this new type of democracy because our liberal democracy, your liberal democracy, are liberal democracy is on the truck to day on the track from outside european union, china, russia. it's also on the inside because of the social media, social media like facebook are in their mining all liberal democracy. so direct involvement of the citizens inside the decision making process of the european union isn't really a good answer. i think a real answer 2 words. yeah, this degrading the liberal democracy to the social media sbc today. why is my facebook undermining your liberal democracy? why is that the? is that the i think that's, that's obvious. at least everybody understands that when you go on facebook and you
put, i don't know what, for example, chinese communist party, on your facebook, that for the next 5 or 10 years, you will receive mostly only posts and see posts and messages concerning the chinese communist party let me go to the thing you put. yeah. but if you have other things you'll get to play. sorry, let me explain the algorithm. this behind the system of facebook are made in such a way that at the end, people only see what they think and not the counter argument. and that's a very good model to make profits in, in us, maybe in united states. but it's a very bad mobile for. ready the plural is in our liberal democracy. let's come back to the e you. the question is, is that often raised about accountability among the commission? do you believe that this commission is accountable?
how many of its commission has ever get fat once and its history once since 958. is there accountability in the commission? no, that's not, that's not true. that's not what you're saying. you're forgot to mention the fact that this parliament at a certain moment has dismissed i who told me a whole commission once and also a commission president in, in the past. that's not true. so that have been many examples of, of that. but it's true that we need to increase the power of this year at the bottom and to make it a real european democracy and the power additional power that is europe bottom at the is power tech station. that is something we are missing for dom when and the 2nd thing, what we need is the right of initiative for this european parliament to initiate
new or proposals. so if you tell me that there is not enough power for european parliament in controlling the commission and in controlling the council and in developing an emerald policy, you're righteous. we talked earlier about what you called failing courage among europe, leaders and in 2018. you went further and you said the union tends to be rather weak in the face of global challenges. that was pretty much the case, wasn't it? when donald trump was president, allowing europe to be lectured like naughty school children about nato funding and who you could trade with and who you couldn't pretty degrading, wasn't it? but yeah, but it's it, it didn't fundamentally change with buyer by that or trump boat or, or criticizing a utopian union or for that and for good reasons. not because there is not sufficient funding, but because or is not sufficient corporation inside europe. you know,
that you up is spending is spending more than china on, on military expenditures. we are spending in europe without even the u. k. 4 times more than the russians on military. the problem on military in europe is not the level of spending. the problem is that we do it $28.00 times $27.00 times now after the breaks it and that we dedicate everything $27.00 times. we spent more or less 35 percent of the americans are military and we can only do 10 percent of the operations of the american army. what does it mean if you spend 35 percent of the americans and can only do 10 percent of the operations that you're treat to 4 times less f. and that's the consequence of publication. so my plea is that the fastest as possible will create as european defense community as a biller of nate, a european pillar of nato. and that's the real answer to our geopolitical weakness and not spent
a little bit more of tax money as we do today. but do you agree that one of the commissioners, cherry breton said the other day that something is broken in transatlantic relations? and that's neither a reference to trump, nor biden is, is the something that he was talking about temporary or is the trans atlantic alliance coming unstuck? irrespective of who's in the white house, my know what, what, what i see is the absolutely need for reform of the north atlantic alliance. and why i'm saying that when joe biden is coming a few weeks ago to europe, to the nato summit, he's talking about china. he's talking about china that is in the south pacific. no, that's not the north atlantic. that means that our defense issues to day are not related only to d environment in the north atlantic, but our world wide. and there, there is a need to reform the nato into a global work alliance off democracies. and that unaccompanied mental scale. that
means that in the north american continent, the asian continent, european continent has to do a real effort to create defense communities to defend or liberal democracies. so the nato is today still in the lines of individual countries. and what i thing is that we need to trans to tense form it into a real alliance of continental defense communities, defending liberal democracy. you want to reform nato. you want to reform rules inside the european union. you want to change the unanimity row. you want a lot of reforms and you want a federal, a federal europe at the end of it, a sort of one size fits all. it's what if you don't get any of these reforms that long enough truly you got that that you have a complete misunderstanding of what federalism is, because a one fits for all that's not that it's federal is that's the opposite. it's the
opposite. you see, in the united states of america, united states of america, all 50 states with 50 different constitutions, with 50 different armies, and so on and so on. so when i am a, i'm a federalist. that's true. but federalist full. meet means that everything, what you can do in the local level, you know, the local, what you can better do in the national level, what you do better on the national level, but where there is an added value on the european level that you have to do on utopia level and is the only way for the europeans to defend our interests, all values on in the new world order that is emerging today is emerging that exist already today. that will be a tie where it will be dis, shenice will, will be decides on our standards, what will be decide on our way of life. and the only way to counter that is to organize a federal democratic in diversity european continent. the european union gave
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