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tv   Conflict Zone  Deutsche Welle  December 23, 2021 9:30am-10:00am CET

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a, as we take on the world, i do all these were all about the stories that matter to you. whatever it takes to find, policeman follow. being a pain you know, we are, your, is actually on fire. made for mines with very stubborn, as all the french must be what it breaks it is the success of britain prosper. or can you bear that idea, eating the european country as a price to pay for? isn't your party getting desperate ahead of the elections next year? it has nothing to do next year. selection is required to do with the principal of
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a deal that was signed with a dispute about fishing rights and a surge of migrants crossing from france. britain, i can find anglo french relation to the deep freeze. have both sides lost all sense of perspective. my guest this week from paris is bruno banal, and m. p for the ruling are much party. is president michael. tough foreign policy enough to woo right wing voters before next year's presidential election. bruno but now welcome to come pick zone. let's say that if we made the fishing dispute between france and the u. k. step back a moment. we have only 2 nuclear power in europe. allies joined by countless number the project share in common values. and there is now a major diplomatic spots over fishing,
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haven't you got better things to spend your time or? well, you could look at it as a minor issue, but in fact, it's a symbolic one. and that's why i'd say becomes a political one. when, when did in a, that kingdom decided to go for the bricks. it, or we respected this choice. we didn't like it, but we respected it and a contract, a deal was set, especially in this deal and some obscure corners were cleaned with a specific contract. and the one regarding the fisherman was very important because we know that there is dispute over the waters and is it is a long, long dispute that up and far before you, it was important to clean up, i understand. but why are we, what, why have we gone to the stage where the threats of a trade war threats to cut off or limits electricity supplies, gunboats facing each other? this is become a bit hysterical, hasn't it? i mean, listen to your junior,
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he listen to your junior minister for european affairs klemmer bone. now we must speak the language of force because i fear that unfortunately, this british government understands only this a bit melodramatic, isn't it? you're not talking to moscow. it's only the london you must go, must be enjoying leonor mainly and we do talk to friends and allies. there is no issue. but the fact is that if you start breaking a piece of the contract between you and you k, then what is going to happen with the other parts of the contract? for instance, the water in the northern island are all this, all this issue. so the fact that after months and months, 10 months of negotiation, we couldn't find a deal where the french fishermen could ab those licenses through to fish in the u . k. waters. ah, if we had to come to a point where, where to put a stick in the ground now it reopened the negotiations. and as usual like brothers, you fight hard. busy then at the end of the day, you find a way to still love each other. yeah,
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been according to the president of the ports of care laying bull on. he coat this, a drop in the ocean said the route was ridiculous, and it was all about some small sum. 40 small boats. he said, 40 small boats were licenses for them. you are going to look back in a few years time on back and think you've all taken leave of your senses to get to this stage over the fate of licenses for 40 small boat. it was 240 boats to start with, and i don't know what i'm talking about for the, i don't know. but what i can tell you is that those discussions where, where after this, this agreement, this non agreement on 240 boats. so anyway, it's not the question, the number of boats in the question of, as you said, after a couple of years, what are we going to look back? look back at rec, city is a big deal. is it going to be good for you? k, which is going to be good for you if you don't have this trade on the clean plate on
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the clean agreement, that might be really problematic for the future. and that's what our government is trying to preserve. okay, but all this seems to stem from your governments insistence on telling the rest of europe, but leaving the union, the european union must be a bad thing. what if brett's, it is a success in britain prospers, or can you buy that by dia? well, we are, we are convince that all the big challenges of the future can only be analyzed through a continental lance. meaning that the u. s. or. ready the china, the odds is so strong, so powerful that if we remain single countries with the big challenges of the future space ocean property protection from the bi gression climate change, all this issues of to be to come to the label. so leaving the you is not just the perception of a country making its own decision. it's the,
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the idea that this continent, this european continent will be a little weaker to really phase the challenges of a future, which means growth, employment, economy ecology. so, so we believe that we are strongly european and yes, leaving the european country as a price to pay for. yeah, but you know, i come back to my question, what if it is a success? you look at the recent note from your prime minister john caustics to the commission president on the line. he said it's essential to make clear to european public opinion that leaving the union is more damaging than remaining in it. why is it so essential you so afraid that other countries are going to thought running for the exit as well as britain? well, looking at the position of certain government in european union, yet you may be concerned by the fact that people could be tempted by exceeding you . and again, we try to protect you as much as we can and talking about erection to success. i
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just can't, can't wait for the next 10 years and see effectively if all those challenges i just mention can be just faced at a single country level or if you need the power europe even look at the recent sanitary crisis that we faced, the agreement between older european countries, mickey possible, maybe possible to really quickly find solutions that single countries by themselves couldn't find and didn't have the means to really invest in to make this described as, as, as, as, as smooth as possible. if i can say so, you're talking about the pandemic. you're talking about code. it the pandemic. yes, yes, depending. well, you did. it was a very slow start in europe, wasn't it? and each country went for its own interests. and those who live on the line pointed out at the beginning, this wasn't a satisfactory state of affairs by any means for the european union. so i guess you
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learned as you went along, but it was every country for itself. when the panoramic started wasn't, it wasn't much european unity on show that was that. yeah, but you look after 18 months of this dramatic pandemic, it read those strengths and coordination of europe that really makes possible now to, for instance, protect most of the countries from a 5th wave if any. and again, so going solo in this situation was probably not the right way to go. if you look at the numbers at the end of the day, after 18 months, to going back to the fishing dispute, plenty of people in your country don't think much of the war. or the threats that you made about banning u. k. shoulders from unloading in french port, john mark please. so the president of the ports of gala and move line, who i mentioned earlier, he won the french government against imposing sanctions on the u. k. and he told the b, b, c. it would be terrible for both sides of the channel for you, for up,
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for the ports, for the fisherman in your country, and not country, and all that just for a few little boats that aren't allowed to fish in your country. did you really think that threatening britain impressed your voters ahead of next year's elections? was that you're a, you know, frankly speaking that it has nothing to do with makes your selection is re, as to do is the principle of a deal that was sign of commitment taken by the u. k. that he's not respected. and not talking about this man that you mention from the point of kelly, i understand is locally shoes for the local trade and, and the difficulty that the board may face. but when you talk about protecting you, you have to swallow some pain, some time to really show that there are some much more important subject than just your local issues. and i do, i do call them local issues, but the jobs that you're talking about jobs, jobs. in addition, i see food set,
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the jobs in blue line and cali, which you being warned are at risk or were at risk. if you went ahead with your threats, you have said you're right, they talk about jobs. i talk about the jobs of the fishermen. while losing today between 25 and 30 percent of the business because of this non agreement being signed. so, so jobs against jobs at the end of the day again, a contract has to be respected. and that's really the core of the discussion. you didn't get as much support from the rest of the european union as you'd hoped for didn't do any 10 other states supported your so called joint statement, criticizing britain, and they even watered down your text and the final version, didn't they removing references to an unsatisfactory and contradictory response by the u. k. are you surprised that you only got such lukewarm support from the rest of the you? well, i'm not surprised because you know, building something as complex as you is a step by step process. and the fact that some countries are disagreeing on some
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topics seems to be like, absolutely normal. you came out yes, a long time. you've been trying to build this unity for a very long time. yeah, but we are very stubborn. as all the french must be to really, if we believe in something we do believe in you, we have to convince you of on every single topic to be strong together. and the end to join forces to gather their forces. if they decide to, again, to play solo, like, like if you decided with the brakes it, yeah, it will be some consequences. and the relationship between this territory, u. k, u is now dramatically changed and it will have impact on the economy on social and social workers on immigration will see a list of impact by the very fact that you bricks it was decided and respected by. do you would be cited by the people of, of the united kingdom? you not on the, found your anger against the british over this fishing dispute?
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you started blaming, knowing your well seemed like if you started blaming the man who negotiated the praxis, dale for the you, michel, bonnie, a you seem to want to blame somebody for something here. the president of your party is parliamentary group and the national assembly christ off cost, and i spelled it out on france. and for we said those who negotiated the breakfast treaty told us, don't worry, everything's fine. now we find there instances of imprecision. if the u. k can find the loophole in the text. it means it wasn't negotiated in the best way. i thought you were happy with what? michelle? bonnie: i did present the macro, heaped praise on him, back in 2019. you've gone off him as well. now. have you? well, you know, is there now we're talking about the french election. the coming one michelle body is one of the, of the pretenders to go for a,
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for the president's the alley public. and so you're just finding a stick to beat him with. you just want to stick to beat him with it. well, well, let's say that in this political world that i now facing every day i've seen a, i've seen action that sometimes are more like a, almost like like, like, like putting a little law. but the law pointing fingers on little details, but globally speaking, the brakes. it negotiation when extremely well, we knew that we would have an issue with this fishing activity. we knew we are, that we will laugh probably an issue with another nyland border at one point in time. i don't know when and, and effectively you case shouldn't take advantage of the loophole of these discussions. because globally speaking, everything was treat was treated fairly fairly. all right, mr. by now, the other big bone of contention between france and the u. k. of illegal migrants crossing the channel from the coast of france in ever increasing numbers. in the
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2nd week of november, 1200 people slipped through your security patrols and crossed the channel in a single day. you're not being very effective at stopping them or you that you don't. well, come on. i mean, it takes 2 to tango here, right? a 30000 people try to pass the channel and 40 percent of them succeeded. so if you look at the story from my side, we 6, we re successfully, ah stopped 60 percent of the people trying to pass the channel. if you look and the other side of the channel, the u. k. border rate. ah, there are some measures to be taken as well. so please again, if we start playing with this numbers and the migrations to accelerate or intensify the tension on the very, very sensitive subject, i think that nobody is going to win a win win situation is to go on with the agreement between the french authorities and the u. k. authorities to find a way out of this
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a permanent migration. and by the way, a significant numbers of this migrants actually coming from belgium and we not blaming and pointing people. i would like to say they are $77.00 out of 10 of them are supposed to be coming from belgium. why do you let them in? if you know that a large number of them are going to transit illegally or tried to transit illegally to the u. k. because well, you know, the problem is that the most of them are coming from africa as you know, through spain or through italy as, as we are controlling the, the spanish and italian border. they usually go through germany and then move to belgium, back to france. cuz the ultimate goal is, is the u. k. i don't know why, but it seems that they feel more comfortable working. why the activities in the u. k. and, and, and that's why did they put this pressure on those borders? we do our job, but it again we have to, it's
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a much more global issue. and this migration evolution again is one of those challenges. i just mention that cannot be resolved only with a european coordination. and clearly a coordination with the u. k. authorities as well. well, bob's you simply want to push the problem across to the british, knowing that since they left the you, they no longer have the legal mechanism to send the migrants directly back to you. is that the the politic oh this? no, i don't think that's very fair to say so because as it again, i'm telling you that 60 percent of the people trying to pass the channel where stopped by the, by the european and french authorities. so each is that they are so many people that is very complex on so such a large border because we have to print things as a said, spain, italy, and the channel it's, it's a very complex and very heavy investment to face the number of people trying to make this happen. so no, there is no twisted way for friends to get rid of the problem by shipping those
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people, human beings to the u. k. without the, without any concern about them. so no, it's not the french way of looking at this migration. well, you say that, but frances treatment of these migrants has come in heavy criticism recently from human rights groups. human rights watch reported last month that your officials regularly subject that outs and children in my group comes around cali to what they called degrading and harsh treatment. why do you do that? but we don't do anything. again, the submission of numbers we systematically trained to put to, to, to iep to those people shelters. to day to day that the very day to day we are, we, we, we closed a can offer camp billed by people arriving from everywhere. and we closed his camp and we give shelters to every single individuals. i think it's about 2000 people, will got protections. so it's easy, very easy for us,
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and yours and human rights to point fingers again. but the total investment a to protect those migrants is very significant on the french budget. and again, the migration wave is constant and growing. we can deny it. we can pretend that we need just to build walls and it would be enough. but climate change and economy crisis. busy will push more and more people up north. so the, the question now is to coordinate and find a way to, to integrate or capitalize all those people. and to be firm on the illegal illegal one. and try to be as respectful as possible of the human being before they get they are sent back to the our, to the home country. you, you say that, but it's come to the attention of the french defender of rights. your ombudsman, who said even last year that your police tactics had left the migrants in a state of physical and mental exhaustion. so it's not just foreign n g o z that are reporting on this. your own defender of rights is significantly
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worried by the treatment that these people are getting lost. here police conducted 950 routine eviction operations and galler nearly 5000 tents. hundreds of blankets and sleeping bags were seized. these are basically items without which people, some of these people and many of them are children, had to live in extreme hardship. i can't imagine that that's what you want. well, that's acceptable to you, is it? but that's what's going on. no, of course it's not acceptable and, and, and the i can accept that there are some mishaps sometimes. but for the monthly against those numbers that you just mention, we have to look at the millions that i spend to give protection shelters to, especially the kids and the, and the woman just to make sure that they are not living in the, in dramatic situation. and talking about what happens there, then g, o should look at the, at the people, the key advantage of their all despair there by selling blankets, selling tense,
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trying to take advantage of the misery of those people wear. sometimes the police can be, may be, may be blamed for some, some action, but most of the time they must be honored for what they do to protect the people. miss. your brother isn't the truth about this treatment of migrants so that it's aimed at trying to take votes from the right wing parties in the presidential elections next april. earlier this year your interior minister made it clear that he, he didn't want the far right marine la pen becoming president. because as we, she said, we've shown ourselves to be too naive and to soft. this is your big fear, isn't it being thought of too soft? when you're facing a huge challenge from the far right parties that are concentrating on immigration as one of their illegal immigration, is one of their major issues for next year's election. you know, france, you have country where was whereas the human rights were written. so,
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so i'm denying to anybody the right to say that france would just take advantage of hostage as a stage, the migration, the migration for obscure political reason. the truth is that we do have in our country a significant number of bodies on the extreme rights and on the right trying to push the idea that immigration is the key problem that we face. and without any immigration, it, we would solve all the economy call and social issues in our country. we all know this is wrong. we know that immigration is a global wave, is that is, is something coming and growing for the coming years. so any. ready reasonable political person as to face immigration with honesty and, and, and, and clearly briefly, plans for the short made a long term short term. yes, we have to protect and shelters to those people and we have to protect immediately
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some of our borders with some legal action. mid term, we have to build some integration plan and see how we can deal with those people explaining to them that no coming north is not go into the paradise you find out what your vest, whatever you are doing, you, your, your party performed incredibly badly in local elections in the summer, you got just 7 percent of the vote and you failed by a long way to win a single region on the french mainland. and you're getting desperate. isn't your body getting desperate ahead of these elections next year? 2 months before that local election, a group of retard french generals, wrote a hugely inflammatory note saying, france was disintegrating in the faith of islam is radicalism, an immigrant hordes. a po showed that 60 percent of your electric supported that view, including nearly half of those in your polity. big wake up call for emanuel macro,
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wasn't it? big wake up call. you know, we have wicked, cool every day the pandemic was a wicked cold. ah, the climate crisis is a wake up call. political politics is about wake up calls. system, adequate, of course, 60 percent of the electorate supported that view. 60 percent of the electron supported i view that france was disintegrating in the face of islamist radicalism . then then, and then that part of the 40 percent, because i believe to that that we have a significant number of people coming from the migration that help to build a better friends. you have her not only people who else to build a, you know, building source re or street or, or roads, but people who are in the medical business in the legal business, in the engineering business. so no, i don't think that immigration is a, is a, is a huge problem for france. what is a problem is a new me an uncontrolled immigration coming from desperate countries. countries that may disappear with the climate, crises to morrow. and as a political person,
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i think that again, there is a need to invest in africa, we spend, and we spend our, our, our investment in africa for this purpose to really kill. that's the long term answer to that migration crisis. all the rest, if we try to dig those people on our stage for political game, i think it just are not that the level of the discussion we want to have in the future for our country. just very briefly on emmanuel macros prospects for the next election. he was asked last year and bastille day. why people hated him so much. and he didn't argue with the question. he admitted he'd failed to unite what he called a divided country and said he understood the hate because he said we are a country which has that in its history in its guts. if michael is the target so so much hatred, why on earth should people vote for him again next year?
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you know, i think that being a president in this very, very special time that we're leaving now in transition time, that really now is probably very complex. but at the end, the day, we know we have a captain on board. we know we have someone who successfully invested ina, supporting the economy and during the been any crisis. and we see the result right now we have an employment, you know, diving, we have the economy rising at plus 7 percent this year. so, so effectively with he's a result of the quality of this captain. i think that at the end of the day when people will go to vote for the french presidency, they look at the people and say, oh is able to take the job and who is able to relieve face all those challenges. one of them as proven that was capable of doing it and that would be the answer. but you're worried, you have to be worried. i'm not worried i'm optimistic and paranoid because i think that you need both to be a good political law leader and to make
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a campaign. so remain paranoid and optimistic. bruno been out, been good to have your own comfort zone. thank you very much indeed for your time. thank you. ah. with blue blue with
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who was according to our tradition men or was to period to women. a trip to the law allows men to be say, why women? it was supposed to be subservient, ample, glad for them. it scares me to think where we as a nation,
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that teams special. monday to friday on d w ah, ah, ah, this is d w. news coming to live from berlin. the number of cupboard 19 cases in the u. k. reaches, are record high passing 100000 in a single day. for the 1st time, the new studies suggest the, all the kron virus variant is less severe than the delta.


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