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tv   REV  Deutsche Welle  July 14, 2021 9:30pm-10:00pm CEST

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the way from just one week, how much we're gonna, we're gonna get we still have time to go. i'm doing all this to subscribe or more videos like we knew that our decision to wait role would entail risk. you know what kinds of raising the advance does in imposing on the areas make control public execution. india and it's up to the people to really decide what's the future is not up to us . after 20 years fighting taliban insurgents and failing to defeat them. nato forces. i'm pulling out says afghan last week or respond and reported this more than half the country had fallen to the taliban. my guess this week is miss chance, joe, i'm a deputy secretary general of nato,
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who joins me this week from the alliance's headquarters in belgium, odyssey justified the abandonment of the afghan people at a time of maximum need the news on the weapons of conflict zone. thank you for having me. the war in afghanistan may be over for nato, but it most certainly isn't for the people of that country. what does it say about your alliance? when the mission fails, you cut and run and abandon your friends to a very dangerous future. listen, we've been named. i've gone on for almost 20 years now. we all, they remember 911. the 1st time that article 5 was invoked. and all allies and global partners have basically stayed for 20 years and i've gone to them. so i
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remember imprisoned by then i think the other day just mentioned the fact there was an attempt to put an end to our presence. and i'm going to stand in 2011. so the 10th, if you want, any bursary of our presence. so we're not running away, we're just closing a long chapter. we know that putting an end to our mission is also entailing risks. we are, we are lucid about this things, but the decision to put an end at a certain point of a long, protracted mission was something which was taken by our all our lives by american friends and allies. and now we're opening a new chapter. we're not about and it goes on the sun. we want you to help. i'm going to stop mister joanna. the fact is, you're setting a very dangerous precedent for nato, which is leaving your friends and allies at the time when they desperately need you . and i wonder if that's really
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a label that you want to wear around the world. we have been training over 300000 oregon meter insecurity forces for all these years. we've invested millions of dollars or euro's so whatever currency partners have for their national budgets. we've been investing in this country massively, not only in security and defense, but i'm looking at the numbers. since our presence in oregon, nissan, the number of children enrolled in schools in education, increased by 8000000. many of those young girls, how long do you have been asked mister joe, how long do you think you're going to lock the figures that i would like you to think about that more than $100.00? 6400 districts have been seized by the taliban in the last 2 months. key provincial cities, north and south, under siege. hundreds of people are dying every week and important people in
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afghanistan, professional people, women in public life are being targeted, shot at on the street. and that caused blow not by bombs. those are the figures that the people in afghanistan have to deal with. now. now that you've left them, general scott miller, the commander stood down. he doesn't deny that they're leaving friends in need. he said, i don't like leaving friends in need. we should be concerned the loss of terrain and the repeated fee of that loss has to be concerning. you look at the security situation, it's not good. you're pushing these people into the arms of a very cruel and they brutal. and so some people, a very primitive movement that has no regard for human rights or justice whatsoever . so we are fully aware of the situation which is not looking great. we also fully aware that there might be risks for reversal of some of the alternative reforms that we have been encouraging over the years. we also aware the fact that
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the gun forces that we've been training with enormous investments. so now aside, they also have to start performing some of the, some of the losses of territory that you have mentioned. also due to the fact that there is an impact on the morale of the gun forces. including because of the departure of nato and the u. s allies, some of those are strategical because they decided as far as we know for them to concentrate the resources that they have considerable resources that they have in order to protect the most strategic irrelevant places. but in the end, it's not up to us to decide you know, the future of going on. and we hope, and we encourage interrupt gone piece stalks because at the same moment the room for diplomacy will arrive. and i hope you are very soon. well, there is enormous criticism of your withdrawal from experts from military
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personnel generals who are involved in commanding forces in nature intelligence chief saying that basically this is a sorry moment for western grand strategy. we've lost the plot here. that's load. david richard's a former british commander of nato forces in afghanistan. he said a country that we promised a huge amount to faces almost certain civil war, with the likelihood that the taliban will be back to where they were in 2000. and one you think he doesn't know what he's talking about, the direct experience of afghanistan, direct experience of dealing with the taliban. as i mentioned, then we mentioned very clear that we knew that our decision with role would entail risks. it's a bit more than also because it's a bit more than risks. it's really our module, as we have done in this country for many, many long years. but let me also say, you know, also also something else that there is
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a certain moment. a decision that is not easy because if we would be in this logic, we'll continue to say on and on and on one more year, one more year. it's already 20 years on 9112022 is 20 years. so that's a very tough choice. that the american president, the assay nato, have to be doing. what we need now to do is to not to give up on, i've got a son in also not even to have this kind of sometimes legitimate, but sometimes exaggerated points of concern. we believe that civil war is, is not unavoidable in oregon, the sun, we believe there is a chance for peace talks to resume in the hallway elsewhere. we are also seeing regional powers also concerned. you know, you're in your club. i mean, let's go on to your clutching at straws here. your summit communicate last month speaks, as you said, of opening a new chapter in nature's relationship with afghanistan. you said we affirm our
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commitment to continue to stand with the country. it's people and it's institutions in promoting security and not holding the hard one gains of the last 20 years. do you know what kind of regime the taliban have been imposing on the areas they control? public beatings and executions. women denied basic rights education jobs. no freedom of speech, a justice system based on torture. you know what you've handed them over to the people of afghanistan. as i mentioned, we are fully aware of the risks that are ahead of us at the same time. let me also say something that the original purpose of our present 20 years ago in afghanistan is to make sure that i've got the sun is not becoming again a safe have on terrorist in 20. is this not been not a single terrorist attack from a gun, nissan on natal soil? this is in itself, one of the primary goals of our presence there. again,
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this is something that we are fully supportive of a future of gun nissan. that they will decide together. we believe that some of the reforms that we have contributed to will also be defended, not only needed to terms, but also the if anybody gun people themselves. so i do not believe that there is today a chance for some form of valuable rule that will be taking control over the whole country. i believe there is enough capacity in that country to, to defend. there's hardly gained progress in social and human human rights. but in the end, it's up to the gun people to really decide what's the future. i don't know if it was. yeah for 280 to the side on behalf of the gun people are when we don't believe and i'm i'm, i strongly believe. i strongly believe that there will be some form of political
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settlement among the, the various constituencies ethnic groups and also philosophies and ideologies inside afghanistan. the purpose of the inter are gone talks. well, let me just point out some of the comments that disagree with that enormously. in particular, from before my head of britain secret intelligence service, alex young goes to don last year. and he said he was frustrated by the way, we, we, the international community have failed. we have failed to match our ambitions with a proper political plan. that's his view. and his view is also that there is a perfectly cordial relationship between the taliban and al qaeda. and he's predicting that off down this time we'll likely descend into civil war. you point out that i haven't been any terrorist attacks from afghanistan, the time that nato has been there. he says, neither islamic state nor outsider have gone away. and now they have
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a good chance to come back. you're happy about that. this is another expert. you don't think he knows what he's talking about as well. when i mention that we are ending a chapter in our relationship with our gun, he's done, i speak on behalf of nato this time. and opening a new one doesn't mean that we are leaving a gun. he's done with elementary presence and not continue to support. i've got his son, including the security immunity forces, the nato trust fund for i've got the sounds on forces, is fully replenished up to 2024, billions of dollars that we have at our disposal to continue to train. of course, not in, in country that also allies, america, 1st and foremost, that are now looking and preparing over the horizon as we call them military and capabilities to be able to intervene in i would politely disagree because there's
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also public reports that there is we continue to give support to the oregon on forces, we continue to help them run the air force which is quite performing by the way, we continue to train the special forces which are quite perform. and by the way, of course, we know that in some portions of gunnison we, we also have the same information and even more in tell that there are some 4 of us with the morale of the troops. some of them are taking refuge in neighboring countries in tajikistan, in other places, we are not in the situation to ignore the reality, which is a hard reality. but the me and the moment of our ending of all mission and i've got the sun would have come eat at the perfect moment for that. no, it isn't. it is a great solution. no, it isn't. it is one of the options that we have on our hand to continue to help i'm going on. yes, it is. that's, and i'm, i'm encouraged of the fact that also are the international plays, not only nato, not only the u. s nothing of the okay, not only in germany, really what turkey,
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the gun is on the coverage international dialogue on that. it's not a great tribute when the best that joe biden can say about your mission is that it hasn't failed yet. you think, withdrawing all the troops and leaving the country to be overrun by the taliban enhances your partnership with that kind of stuff. i'm not sure how you work that out. we need to continue to support the ongoing afghan lead piece process. you say what process is that? you know perfectly well that i haven't been any sustain talks between the government and the taliban. for months sometimes the taliban turn up to talk. sometimes they don't. why construct these fairytale scenarios that have absolutely nothing to do with reality? the peace process will resume and that the process is not always resuming, as we hoped. also because there is like always in negotiation, at least 2 parties, the gun legitimate government. and sometimes the government has not shown up to
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these negotiations. sometimes the tale by not playing. they were excluded from the deal, but the americans did one day. the government and i've done is found was excluded completely on the deal. so this was always going to be contained no assurances whatsoever about democracy or constitution or elections or anything else that might help people. so hope as you put it, hope that the gains of the last 20 years could be somehow retained nothing differently than because i, i hear you. and this is things that we also concerned about. but here, there are 2 options. there's no way in which the thought bond can take over control over the whole country because the other constituencies and other forces that will not allow that. so there's no way for the tale bond to take over by force. the whole of gun is done. we also are aware of the fact that heading off connie, some going back to the period when the affections and some form of, of,
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of long term you know, in fighting inside the country is also another solution. not for the tale bond nor for the other forces. so there will be a political compromise to be met. is this the right time? we hope it is easy only the role of the u. s. and they totally encourage both parties to, to join again, negotiations in doha elsewhere. know, this is why we see interesting, you know, the encouragement for parties to resume talks also by russia also by china, also by other neighboring players. so i think nobody but nobody from get mentioned community is interested in having, i've got some going that devastating wrote that they had many as ago. well with all about just left without the sound of just left. they may not be able to prevented mr. john. i come back to the realty,
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can we just discuss nato's credibility after this? withdraw? not just in central asia, but around the world, leaving friends in need. and those are the words of general scott mella, leaving friends in need. severely damages your credibility at the time when you really need it. how much value do you think ukraine, for instance, places on your messages to support when it watches you give up on i've got this down and pull out, leaving it to the taliban. i'm not here to to, to have an, an argument over this. i'm saying that 20 years is a long period of time in saying in one place and trillions of dollars and thousands of lives of allied troops and our partners globally that have also sacrificed alongside with our guns in this 20 years in 20 years. and we can,
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we, if you want, we can have counterfactual thing. we could continue, we should have lots of left probably earlier. is there the right moment to do this? no, it isn't. is this a moment? don't have to, to make up a decision. yes, it is. and he's up to all of us, including the and mainly the people are gone east on the really side what's the future. and of course, we are interested about nathan reputation. we are, we are of strong military alliance. we know that sometimes our actions are inactions also having an impact. i'm not concerned to, to, to, to, to tell you the whole truth that our reputation as an alliance will be diminished by this. we've been sitting for 20 years. there's no other similar situation. when a global alliance around the nations, from all the content has not only nato countries, we have come to the help of all american friends and allies. alright, my is my question, my question mr. joiner. was what you thought ukraine might make of all this,
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considering that they're also in receipt of very nice words and promises from nature like nato support for ukraine sovereignty and territorial integrity is unwavering. when in practical terms, that's actually meaningless, isn't it? because nathan can do nothing to prevent ukraine sovereignty and territorial integrity being violated. wholesale by russia, as it has been since 2014. so then, but the nice word is not that you want to be known for nice words. absolutely. just the opposite. what i'm saying you cannot compare on comparable things. i've done is done is done ukraine. and that's a totally different ball game and story behind this to these 2 situation. well, let me be specific when you remember, remember that the older generations, speaking of the annexation illegal and session of crimea, do we remember when the baltic states were an ex by soviet union?
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was the same awards, as you mentioned. now, that when the u. s. and western europe, downtime in small nato. in those days they said they will never recognize the annexation of the baltic states. the soviet union is going to take time and did the decades. we needed to wait for the end of the cold war. and today the both the nations, i'm proud members of our alliance. i know in your interviews with my colleagues with us, dr. burke and my p. s. a. really good them. are you ask the question, can we really find these countries our l i. c s. we have an obligation towards ukraine in terms of article 5, not yet, but the, when a nice will have that decision will also the friends all allies the day. there are 30 allies that we have promised solemnly to defend one another. want to you, you know, the sometimes words mean not to be strong enough them, but they mean something they meet political commitment from the leaders. and the
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moment we have decided our nato summit in june on june 14th. this will continue to help oregon is done. that will continue to same by the sovereignty. and there is all integrity of ukraine in georgia for that matter. that will say that will be helping our partners around the world. that's nato's reputation. this is what we, what do we find? you don't need not. you call long protected or you don't need me to tell you that the ukranian government is waiting for a date for full membership. the foreign minister said that just a few days ago, we would like to have an honest answer to the question when that's what he said. what is the answer? what is them, kenny about on thing, let me give you. let me give you an in direct answer, but nonetheless, very direct and i'm come from romania. i'm the 1st that you the surgeon, i'm natal from a new come into nato. i was foreign minister of my country. i was embarrassed in washington trying to convince the allies to invite my country to join native. if
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anybody tell us when this will happen. did anybody give us a solemn promise that by that date you will be a member of nato. you, romania, you bulgaria, you the baltic states? you are the others. know they're fighting. we're going to be on the border, mr. joe, and like, we have been we have been on the, on the, on the border with russia directly or indirectly like the multi countries for many, many decades. this is not an easy thing. what i'm saying that the booker, as decision on open doors, is that the say it was reconfirmed our summit. and it's also up to us to reach consensus within the alliance. and also for we are friends in ukraine to continue the path of reform. you're not going to give them a firm answer because what russia did went to a diesel freight wanted in time, we are working on open door policy. our foreign ministers will be meeting next december to to give additional support to our friend countries. they have to keep
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faith in their own decision. so join the west, they have to continue to invest in reforms in ukraine, not for the sake of joining nato, the european union for that matter. but for the sake of you can people. and this is why i'm adamant against the idea that russia can have a veto, or we can accept ever in europe again, fears of influence. and when a sovereign nation is borrowed from joining the kind of military alliances or the kind of structures they want to join, someone has actually enforced that bar very effectively. but in the short time that we have left, i'd like to talk just briefly about china because the recent nato summit prioritized what you called beijing coercive policies and the increasing dangers it poses to the west. your bus yet starting back said these challenges had to be answered how. how do you propose to answer these challenges?
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i remember being new on the job. the 1st time that we had a mention, an explicit reference to china. efficient nato document was in london in 2019, when our leaders met. it was the 1st time that the final communique, china was mentioned. and to put it in a very simple way, we presented china, which is the reality as an opportunity and a challenge. and we started to work on the rise of china because the rights of china is a reality that is shifting global balance of power. it's also a massive opportunity. that's a big country with a big economy, with lots of opportunities to do things. also, there is a challenge because china is becoming a massive be you know, an aggressively investing in the, in the military capabilities and that portion of globally. so yes,
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we are working on what they call friends of work. but there's also knowledge hide your alliance because there are plenty of your members who don't like this new focus on china. president macro, for instance, was pretty clear. you said nate as an organization that concerns the north atlantic . china has little to do with the north atlantic. it's important that we don't scatter ourselves and that we don't bias our relationship with china. we should avoid distracting nato, which already has many challenges. do you agree with him? the china as a distraction for nato? i agree with what our lead us all our leaders, including the french president, the german chancellor, the american president, the president, romania, they all agreed on the language and finally communicating nobody was forcing those countries even when he motion did something immediately afterwards. it's important that we, that's why i thought, i'm biased, our relation just fine. china. that's fine. we can huge to be
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a regional organization by un sanders. we are your atlantic organization by the rise of china is a global thing. oh, okay. the language that also beijing has criticize, you know, if i don't communicate is it is, is lighter than the language on china. and he will language on china, official language, a view on china that they see china is a systemic rival. ok. i think he's much harsher in terms of and that's again prison, macro, again, other european where we run out of time. unfortunately, thank you very much for being on conflicts and i appreciate your time. thank you. always a pleasure. thank you. the me .
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ah ah, this is the w news live from berlin tonight, the former us president who launched america's longest war. it says ending the war in afghanistan. now is a mistake. i'm afraid afghan women and girls are going to suffer unspeakable. is it a mistake? that was, i think it is. yeah, i think because i think the consequences are going to be unbelievably bad it.

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