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tv   Quarks  Deutsche Welle  July 14, 2021 5:30pm-6:16pm CEST

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the but not all member states supported and some persuasion is required quite some time who will win the game of diplomatic poker, interest and power plays and alliances behind the scenes of the due climate summit starts august 5th on d. w. now the exclusive interview with george w bush president george w bush doesn't give many interviews anymore, but because of his special relationship to chancellor uncle medical, he invited us to his summer home in maine. we talked about the past and the future of the trans atlantic relationships alumni schools take on china on russia. the also explains how he felt when he was rubbing her shoulders. president bush, you have met the chancellor, uncle america. so many times do you recall kind of a defining moment?
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you know, the last time i saw was defining because she flew all the way over to my dad's funeral. and we are at the blair house, which is right across the street from white house. my whole family was there and somebody said i have merkel would like to call on you. and i just meant a lot, you know, i was very close to my day and the fact that she would take time to come really defined, i think our relationship, she's a very thoughtful kind of person. and i think another time was at the ranch. we've got a ranch, we love in central texas and she and professor sar came revisit, learn me. and i remember she and i walked across our prairie. we went for probably an hour walker, so just visiting about a variety of things and it was oppertunity not to conduct diplomacy, but an opportunity to get to know or get to know each other better. and that was a kind of a defining moment to you painted the portrait of her. i'm sure all that kind of is
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seen in this portrait. maybe you can talk a little bit about the process and the picture itself. sure, well, you know, i was just the new painter, so i was a little worried about making sure i captured the person that i was trying to pay in an ankle, in case i wanted to paint a kind person with a lovely soul. and that's the person i got to know. i mean, she's plenty tough in order to survive in a and what was a man's world german politics for a long time. she's gotta be pretty tough. and she's resolute. but i also saw a side of her that was very compassionate and decent. and that's what i, that's the, what i tried to do in the portrait. i hope she likes it. and where you can tell the people that i had great respect for like and some yeah, i want to close to when you look at the portraits i painted and hers is one of on the plus side. i liked her a lot,
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talking about more complicated relationships. the relationship with god screwed up the previous s or at the end was a little bit icey variation. yeah. which rolled into a personal relationship with an america play for the improvement of the transatlantic relationship. well, i think, i mean again her schroeder used me as a political pawn on his reelection and it became very personal. and people in his cabinet says some things that they shouldn't say. i want to compare me to our hitler or something like that and apology. there's roommates, there's one thing, but to personalize it in a way to help one self politically, really was i didn't think very good. it didn't represent a good friendship. angela came in and change that completely. we had our disagreements, of course. i mean, what was your biggest disagreement with her?
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you know, probably whether or not georgia should be given the membership application process and nato. and, and she was very resolute and didn't think it was the right thing to do. and i thought of the right thing to do, but we can dr. shops and such a way as not to personalize it. because because above all the politics, there was just friendship and. and so she, you know, whether or not she intentionally tried to repair relationships with me. i don't, i don't even know if she need the relationship need to be repaired. i guess she saw what schroeder did, but anyway, it was, it was a different relationship and much more positive and constructive. what about going to animal be that was also a huge disagreement. right. and you're not really not. yeah. and i was going to change my attitude there was, is that if you're worried about guantanamo bay, go down there and inspect it, like to international re crossed in on
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a regular basis. but i don't remember any friction over that. talking about difficult relation relationships. what triggered i'm going to medical and donald trump and cause the house reaction. he once refused taking her hand. i don't know. i don't know if that was just a not a good period in german or us relations and i don't know. i don't, i don't know, donald trump, i met him one time at the very same funeral. then i feel a miracle game too. and so it's hard for me to guess. why am i? germany is a very close ally and a very important friend. germany really important for europe and in germany got a lot of sway in terms of helping shape can are world opinion on key issues. and therefore it makes sense for you as president to be close to the german chancellor . and even though your arch wrote and i had it as agreements on issues, we nevertheless were able to send the signal that us german relations are very
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important. how does this work, mister president, after you left the office to stay in contact with chancellors or president from other countries to, to talk to america after that or not really? i'm like, i'm out and i don't, and i'm happy to be at as you know, i become a of simple painter and i, i'm out of politics. i kind of got into us politics a little bit when i, when i published a book on immigrants, one of whom was a great german and same dirt and a whiskey. we both share the same hometown now dallas, texas. he's a remarkable guy, loyal and community activist for children, and he's a good man. and anyway, we have an immigration debate going on in the united states. now. i was unhappy with the tone of it, and i think we start with the premise that we're all guy's children and every life matters. then all of a sudden one has
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a different perspective on how to enforce the border and how to deal with people who are escaping tyranny. and anyway, but other than that, i'm pretty much out of politics. talking about immigration, that's what that was. something which will define probably on the la medical's chancellor. what's your take on her reaction when she didn't close the borders and led in like a 1000000 or so? yeah. you know, my 1st reaction was there's a one with a big heart, and i'm sure she was motivated by human compassion. and it was i, it was clearly a tough political decision for her. but she took a lead, like i made a lot of tough decisions too. and i hope when people look at my record as president, they say he did what he thought was right and stood ground. and so i admire. i admire her steadfastness and uncle is not afraid to make a decision was not afraid to lead and the world needs leadership that has based
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upon principle. and that's what she did. and i know it cause political points, but she bless you doing pretty well. here's the thing that amazes me. 8 years in a democracy is a long time. i know full well people have tired over year, and they retired reagan after 8 years. there darnesha tired of me after 8 years and idle and merkle has managed to survive in a pretty tough political environment for more than 8 years. and it's pretty amazing when you think about it at the tenure reflects something and i think it reflects the german voters trust. they may not agree with them, but they trust her. and they trust her most 1st and foremost because she's a good person. did senior perspective make any major mistakes? you know, i don't, i'm not, i'm not very close to german politics. not really. yeah, i'm,
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and i'm sure that i'm sure as you, i hope are 10 years, not defined by the decision on refugees. what's, what can be defined by immersion? i think it ought to be on bringing honor and principal leadership to the chancery of germany. what he will say, what's your greatest legacy? my light grays legacy was you know, my girls love me after being present. others is there is profound principles that are important with leaders and leaders. my set examples. i bet a legacy about merkle was, there's a lot of girls watch on the la merkle say. i too can have a position of responsibility and power because she conducted herself with such dignity. and you know that there's no such thing as accurate, short term history. others on the list place in history won't be known until other chancellors come until events them around the world unfold. and i think there's
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people are beginning to realize the premium on character when it comes to leadership. and the lack of character is very notable people with character. it seems like they take people take that for granted, but nevertheless in a period were characters been lacking, all of a sudden people are going wow that, that, that's an important trait for later. and i'm going to merkel later, she's not a follower, which is which i admire a lot. this is changing like in the world with facebook, twitter or social media, the like political leaders are more populous or a better on twitter than really like with f principal. yeah. it's interesting question i'm i got out of there before all this stuff happened and you know, i probably would have made my time it marrington different. although i can assure you, i wouldn't have been on twitter. and i would have been on facebook. but yeah,
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it's, i think populism though, is it results more than just social media platforms. i think populism reflects a frustration with, with, with society. and other words here in the states. you know, i made a decision in 2008 to use tax payers money to bail out wall street to, to prevent a worldwide depression. and that made a lot of people mad. really mad. i mean, the average guy out there were raised in texas pages mortgage and all of a sudden george bush uses his taxpayer money to give it to wall street. and there's something unfair about that in their mind. and i wouldn't of done. it had not been necessary to save the economy, but you can explain that to somebody. you know, you can't prove a negative. and so in that created this anger. and then wages were stagnated,
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which created anger, then. and then people felt, you know, immigration kind of begin to crowd them out, which i think it's a multiple set of factors. what, what the mass media does or the current media does. it enables him to talk among themselves and the real dangers, the conspiracy theories that arise. and it's going to require strong leaders to knock that down. and to refute some of these ridiculous extremist ideologies on both the left and the right. i'm glad that you were out of the white house before that happened before twitter took over. so yeah, i think, well, yeah, i'm glad look, i'm glad i served 8 years in the fabulous a years in my life and and i'm glad i'm out of the political maelstrom. you know, it's weird about america right now. so i have a stablish is friendship, because i sit next to her at funerals with michelle obama. and i, one time i gave her
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a met al toyed and they might my daughter said to me, you're trending an order. ok. what is that? is that good? now you're on social media, you and michelle obama and the country was shocked that a republican male and a democrat female can have some kind of bond other than you know, debating politics. and it just goes to show how little rice things are now. the question, and i'm sure they are in germany as well. and the question is will we be able to merge out of this? and my attitude is so long as there's democracy, we can because most americans don't like the hostility and the political system, most americans are not populous, raging popular shoot, express their anger through conspiracy. theories and elections were reflect that so long as the elections are opened and people vote in germany is about to have
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a big election. and, and that's part of the healing process. coming back to america. mr. president, so you were just out of office when metal was informed that her mobile phone was tab by the end. it's a and i quote her, her, she said spying among amongst friends is not at all. okay. do you understand that? totally. yeah. i've question, i had no idea hang on a miracle, but yeah, i mean that's the definition of friendship and she had every right to be straightforward in her criticism. she is also seen as kind of a world leader who is taking climate change really seriously. what role did she play and you're alive, to make you understand or actually on your take when it comes to the climate? well, i understood the issue. i just didn't want to have a global treaty that didn't include china and india. otherwise is
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a waste of time. now i, she was i remember when i came was schroeder was a chancellor and they went to the boon in stock and sat down with all the leaders there. and the green party guy was, you know, this, give me lecture on that. i said fine, why don't you support me on civilian nuclear power is clean and so renewable. i mean, it's the best thing you could do for the environment. after all, your neighbor in france just figure out a way to get rid of this waste and all of a sudden conversation with quiet. and you know, there's a lot of competing interest in a lot of different views. but no question. was very strong on the environment and i don't blame or the other thing she was strong on though at the same time the world seem to be focused on, on the environment when people were dying of age on the kind of africa. and of course, i was concerned about having a agreements at work on, on climate, but i was also deeply concerned about rich people standing by as people were
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needlessly dying. and as you may know, we put together a giant initiative during my administration and i was very supportive. and as a result, millions now labor would have died and and anyway, it's shedding. priorities are important, but solving problems are very important to some people criticize her over her politics with china, saying that like the trade with, with this country is more important for her than human rights. i don't know, i am following that closely, but that's gonna be a dilemma for everybody. and in china is certainly a problem for the western world, because not only are they becoming an industrial competitor, but they are pretty autocratic and you know, they gotta go, declared himself almost leader for life. and it's just
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a different set of pressures on the chinese leadership and the world has to figure out how they're going to deal with human rights abuses. when people study my presidency, they say george bush cared about human rights abuses. every time i go to china, i'd talk about religious freedom and i just show in a way to start to embarrass a chinese leaders or anger them or create foment disorder. but i told them all the time i said look, it matter to me out my life and i think you'll find a society with religious people is going to be a society that's more compassionate and they want her bank of america relationship with let me put it is somewhat special, sometimes is really close. sometimes it's more confrontational. how do you see her relationship, or how did you see it when you were in office? well, 1st of all, i fully understood the importance of russia to germany can become more
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important as germany relies upon russia, natural gas to power her big industrial economy, which i thought was a mistake. but you know, i didn't, i didn't view it as you know, a demonstration of our relationship because she had to deal with glamour. boone, i mean, after ivy, it is very practical. i mean, food got a big influence. and he speaks german and, and i want, you know, he's wiley and it can be pretty tough. and michelle can ongoing, so i wasn't worried about running over. i work like she, she, you know, her own. and i'm sure she did talking about putting, talking about russia we had to talk about in order for him to are you disappointed that america kept promoting supporting this pipeline? yeah, i think it's a mistake and i told her to get her schroeder, i've told dog la,
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you know, i think it's a mistake because, you know, the motivation of russia are, are, can be pretty confusing. and i think more that a nation that is not an open democracy, has an economic strangle hold on a democracy. it puts people in a very difficult strategic position. and so one of my, i just never understood why there's dismantling of the civilian nuclear power. my both chancellor schroeder and and algo, and it just didn't make any sense to me and but the decision they made and i guess the country's comfortable with it as a germany under michael who supported by the way. i'm sure all of us know that the intervention in iraq and 2 or 3 did not support the bonding in libya or any further intervention in syria. what was that approach? a mistake in your eyes? now?
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i don't know. i, you know, i wasn't involved and i was very pleased. she was supportive of troops in afghanistan. i'm by the way and one of the reasons why is because she saw the progress that could be made for young girls and women in afghan instead is unbelievable. that society changed from the brutality of the taliban and al, or sudden sadly, i'm afraid afghan women and girls are going to suffer. unspeakable harm is a mistake. so withdrawal, i, you know, i think it is. yeah. i think because i think the consequences are going to be unbelievably bad. and i'm sad and i spent a lot and i spent a lot of time with afghan women and, and they're scared. and i think about all the interpreters and people that help not only us troops for nato troops, and they're just, it seems like there's,
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you can be left behind to be slaughtered by the very brutal people and it breaks my heart. and i'm sure uncle of him, doctor about it, but i suspect she feels the same way after all. she was a little girl who grew up in a pretty close society. and now i remember going to her hometown and talking to her about her childhood and it was a is just so amazing to me to be talking to a young, a woman who as a young girl was trapped in a closed society. and in here she becomes the chancellor of a democratic free country. people say, germany is approach to military invention is not really honest. it's like a little bit on the one hand. and on the other hand, let's get the americans do the dirty work and we drove and stay out of it. what's your take on that? yeah, you know, it's interesting. i mean there was a universal outcry in germany. it seemed like to me,
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even amongst conservative legislators about some of my decisions after 911. and it was really a reaction that seemed to me to any military involvement because a previous war. and i came to understand that there was a psyche in every country and, and i understood the psyche in it because it didn't mean we couldn't be close friends. and so it, it didn't bother me that germany sent police trainers. we sent shooters, they sent police trainers, but it was a reflection of how the german people felt at the time. and that's how democracy works. should america have known better in that regard, that she comes from the place where she comes from so that sometimes military action is needed? no, i don't know. you know, that's just everybody have to examine their unconscious. but again,
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people who are elected in democracy tend to reflect the, the culture of the attitudes, the history, their tradition of the country. and i just said that both she and her schroeder reflected that and so you see the key thing is the termination of alliance versus difference of opinion. and i always kept in mind the importance of us, german relations for our own country, for my own country's sake and. and therefore when they were disagreements, i refused to let that disagreement or personal slice, if there were any interrupt the, the, the larger goal. and the best thing for the united states is to be close with germany. and i think it's the best thing for germany to be close. the states certainly hope so. after donald trump entered off is america was called the
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leader of the free world. what do you make of that? and is there such thing as a leader of the free world? i think i think there are influencers people have got influence to rally nations who share basic values. free press, free religion, the right to protest. and a country like the united states in germany has got a little extra humph. and those relationships and those collectives of nations that share the same values because of the size of our economies and the size of our populations. did you navigate well? i think so. i mean, i think so to the point where, i mean there was a, a lot on her agenda and she got reelected a lot which i think speaks volumes about her successes. and but you know,
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what's interesting and how history works. both she and i not mean to worry about short term history because we're not going to know where we stand until long after we did. if you would read the history books, what would be your paragraph about america? merkle brought clash and dignity to a very important position and made very hard decisions. and did so, though, with what's best for germany. and if so, based upon principal, and the principal one but focused on her, the principal is larger principles that are important in life. and i think it will say compassionate liter. a woman who is not afraid to lead. there is one image, the world remembers of you and michael that, that, that's at the g. a meeting in saint petersburg when you were massaging her shoulder . and i walk by a game or yeah, i wouldn't call it an extended massage. i'd call it a. yeah, i mean,
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she was here is kind of a spontaneous reflection of friendship. and i'm sure people didn't know what to make of it. i didn't mind right. that was kind of i thought it was a wow. and it can, i don't know. yeah. i mean one of those things that just happened. it certainly was scripted. did he ever talk with her about it? no, no, but if i need to go, i'm sorry. i did that, but in the public spotlight, but on the other hand is a reflection of my, my friendship with you. thank you so very much and is happy to do it. the the
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the the the secret lie behind these was discover new adventures in 360 degrees and explore the fascinating world heritage sites the p w. a world heritage 360. now look loosely i listen carefully.
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don't know how to listen to the go. the feel the magic, the discover the world around you. subscribe to the w documentary on youtube. oh, wow. play with that is me. i am glad to hear me. i can do a whole month in this
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is why i say, you know, i mean i just i just i, i just need to know what what manner my, me
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the the news this is due to renews life from berlin, unbelievably bad. former us president george w bush says he believes that withdrawal of nato troops from i've got a son. as a mistake. i'm afraid afghan women girls are going to suffer. unspeakable hawk is a mistake to the school. i think it is. yeah, i think because i think the consequences are going to be unbelievably bad. in an exclusive interview with dw, the president who launched longest us war, says nato's gone allies are being left behind to be slaughtered. also coming up to
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europe green zeal, you unveil the sweeping plan to fight climate change leader is l. i wait for the blocks to become less reliance on carbon, hoping to turn green goals into concrete actions. still reeling from ryan law enforcement or south africa. struggle to contain mass looting that has west parts of the country for years now grow over food shortages. the supply chains are hit on with rages on writers ransacked, sought sparks by the jailing of ex president jacob's duma. ah, ah, well i thank you so much for your company. every one. well, we open this broadcast with those striking comments made by former us president george w bush in an exclusive interview with the w news. he calls the draw all of us and
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nato troops out of, of gone, asked on a mistake on president bush added, he feared that the pull out of troops would lead to women and girls suffering at the hands of the taliban. he also spoke of his relationship with german chance for england miracle, praising her for her support of the military mission. and i've got a son. i was very pleased. she was supportive of troops in afghanistan. i'm by the way and one of the reasons why is because she saw the progress that could be made for young girls and women and a half going to stand is unbelievable. that society changed from the brutality of the taliban. and our sudden sad. i'm afraid i have gained women and girls are going to suffer unspeakable harm. this is a mistake. so withdrawal i, you know, i think it is. yeah, i think because i think the consequences are going to be unbelievably bad. and i'm sad. i spent a lot and i spent a lot of time with afghan women and,
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and they're scared. and i think about all the interpreters and people that help not only us troops for nato troops. and they're just, it seems like there's, you can be left behind to be slaughtered by the very brutal people and it breaks my heart. that exclusive enter your interview with the former a present conducted by our washington bureau chief in his pull. and we can go to it right now to get some more insight into what was being said, very striking comments there in as it give us a says how he felt about the pull out. yeah, well he really thinks that this is a huge mistake and will lead to k as enough gone. this done what he said and later, you know, this whole interview was set in a very personal tag. we could talk to him in his summer home in maine and i really believed was he said that he really is deeply concerned. he's deeply
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concerned. what does he fear most? well, you know, to give you a little bit of a perspective on our international viewers as many of the long time, conservative republicans. bush also still believes that the goal to fight terrorism in the middle east was necessary. and now he thinks it is far too dangerous. to leave off, gone is done to the taliban. the stay has really started to make ground in the country. so this is kind of the bigger picture. now of course the current president of president jo, buying a very different approach. he has defend the rapid withdrawal from i've gone a stone just last week. he said that america did not go to the region to do a nation building, but listen to what he said exactly, and we'll continue our conversation. after that, we did not go to afghanistan to nation bill, and it's the right and the responsibility of afghan people alone to decide their future and how they want to run their country. so what was ines president bush's
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original objective when he launched the war and i've gone down to decades ago. well, he initiated this war and i've gone is done as part of his white. i was go to fight the war and terrorism after 911 after the 911 attacks. and then we have to remember, there was a real fear about global terrorism than not only in the united states but all around the world. but again, after 20 years of the war ended, it's tension kind of got modeled and became extremely unpopular here in the united states and also around the world. so it's very, very difficult to justify its reason to stay in. i've gone this dawn, you weren't there with him in that very intimate setting that you outlined for us. did you get a feeling that the former president, president bush was criticizing indirectly? president bind well show that obviously have a very,
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very different approach spite and once to end this war because he cannot justify the reasons to stay. and also it was actually former president trump who started the withdrawal. i think it wasn't really the intention of president bush to criticize bite in directly because we really mainly talked about mattel and her legacy. but yes, obviously they do have very different takes, but you get a sense and conclusion that he regrets ever launching that war i do not think so. it is said speculation, but as we just saw and heard in this little clip you played layla. i think you really deeply believes that the war was good for mainly women and girls and have gone on and was a possibility to really make their lives better. and that this opportunity, that this possibility now is destroyed by the withdrawal washington bureau chief in
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a poll reporting. thank you very much. and you can watch the interview in full with george w bush right here on d. w. we are entering it throughout the day before we was present, as ines alluded to also talks at great length about german chancellor and glimmer go ahead of her trip to the u. s. to meet the current president president joe biden starting on thursday. and if you can't make it, then you can reach it, watch it on demand by heading to our youtube channel dw documentary. want to bring up to speed with some of the other stories making headlines around the world. well, investigations continue into the killing last week of haiti's, president of memories. after the rest of one of the alleged plotters, 5 suspects remain at large. authorities are searching for a former haitian senator, a fired government official and a convicted cooking smuggler. police believe the killing may have been politically
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motivated in paris, some 10000 spectators were allowed to watch the annual military for 8 to mark francis date of present em anyway, my comp presided over the significantly scale down national day celebrations on the show. a heavy rain and strong winds are causing flooding across parts of western and central europe. one man is missing in the german state of facts. me and a disaster alert has been issued in hall county. near the border with the checker, public meteorologist expect more heavy rain and thunderstorms in the coming days or turn our attention out to south africa. the country continues to be rocked by riots. fears over food and fuel shortages are growing as alluding and violence reaches on for a 6 date or authority. se hospitals are running out of oxygen, drugs, and food as writing disrupt supply chains within 70 people have been killed in some
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of the worst violence in the country. that has that the country has seen in years following the jailing of former president, jacob's whom am i building is on fire. a baby is thrown down thankfully caused by a small crowd that gathered below. others managed to make their escape to the ground floor shops were looted and set ablaze. durban is one of the cities in south africa, being rocked by unrest and businesses are paying a high price. in some places, south africans are now forced to q for essentially well, i think we just a bit concerned about fuel and water at the stage. but no, otherwise we can get to go. hopefully the future was stopped running in from next week. some suspected looters have been arrested for them. but in this small, in
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a town outside johannesburg, it looks like a free for all the talk. thank you to see what you pulled up. what's going thoughtful, andrea, you know it's all to the other people out there that look like that. and dave, you turn outside for toria, police fire on looters, and the military has been sent in to so with to try to restore law and order. the protest began last week after former president, jacob duma began serving a 15 month jail term for contempt of court. but frustration over inequality and rising unemployment are also fueling the chaos. i just, i guess the real reason is because we have nothing and when you see other people
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stealing at some point, you realize that shops will close and you'll be left with nothing. so you ask yourself, after all of this, how will i survive with the way things are? for now, there is no sign of the unrest letting up or find out what the latest is due to be corresponding to christine and wound what is standing by in cape town, south africa, good to catch up with you again. any signs of the tensions easing in those 2 provinces? no eyes, the short onset lay in facts. we are now on god here for the racial tensions that are flaring up, particularly in was blue. and that's how this is among the black in indian communities. essentially. what it's come down to is that you've got armed civilians . now in the 2 provinces basically standing in promote enforcement. they are heavily on the basis that we are guarding our property. and of course, that has the tensions between communities in the process of the problems wasn't in
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itself, it was white people and black communities as well. and so these are the fears. he's also warned about violence a way you will see attacks on foreign nationals that we already seen from foreign nationals pockets on the national for example, closing up the shop in anticipation that they will be the next target essentially. so there is no sign of less up when it comes to the tensions. in fact, it's starting to move into other forms of tensions, particularly the racial tensions at the moment. so who's calling the shots there? i mean, who's in charge? well, this is the thing. it seems as the low enforcement is playing catch up because we woke up this morning to get more loosing yet more buildings being satellites. as i'm speaking to you. now, in these 2 provinces, the looting continues unabated. and what we understand is that the officials, i'd be gazing, i was just listening to the minutes of the security giving a briefing, which she said that, of course, that the minister in the presence,
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excuse me, that they are still investigating a number of leads. but what we heard yesterday was that they have received reports that form intelligence officials linked to jacob's might be the hide, the fueling, the, the mobilization off the mobs that targeting specific location. and especially that the destruction that we're seeing. because in the beginning, the soon as supporters were saying, we're going to cripple the country, sabotaged the economy. and so the former president is released from prison. you're in cave town, christine, is there fear that violence could spread in other parts of the country? absolutely, i spoke to the police and law enforcement officials here who told me that the province remained on high alert in one of the biggest informal settlement, a guy, lisa, you had a citizen saying, we're not even going to wait before anything starts happening. we are already on god, so you're starting to see it across the country. people get the sense that law enforcement is not going to be they, there isn't a prison. so communities are already taking up arms or coordinating amongst
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themselves in anticipation that the violence is going to spread. but for the moment it appears that it has been contained to the 2 affected provinces. wasn't natal and halting as the impact of this unrest is thinking and is there a growing acknowledgment in south africa that something needs to be done against structural poverty and inequality that are and demick i understand in south africa . absolutely. and for a lot of people, it'll be interesting because it's the same agency government that has been in charge of the country since democracy. and so a lot of people are listening to politicians in governments today talking about the fact that we need to do more to address the levels of poverty. because essentially what a lot of people see this as is that the poor have been taken advantage of. these are political school as being settled using the poor, desperate people in this country who have been, by the way, through the, pushed into privacy by the pandemic. and the restrictions that have come with it. and so again, you are hearing that language. we have had government ministers going and visiting
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the locations, talking about that, the very thing, right? i'll put people we need to do better. we need to create jobs, employment, etc. but some area, it's too little too late. this is where the country find itself, way to keep provinces are essentially on fire as we speak. layla w, christina, i'm wonder what reporting from cape town. thank you so much for your compelling coverage, greatly appreciate it. the news, the news was right in front of them. they're all for this one moment. we agreed to postpone the or olympic games that tokyo with $22421.00 thrown off course during the qualifying round.

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