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tv   Big Pharma  Deutsche Welle  July 9, 2021 1:03pm-1:46pm CEST

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the angry how pins are gathering outside the police station and smashing suspects. cars, police are now cautioning against vigilante, the main people that we have found as we have an obligation to protect them. we cannot take justice into our own hands and tell him prime minister cloud. joseph has declared a state of emergency and stepped up to leave the country until new elections can be held. but his legitimacy is being challenged by rivals. fields are growing that a fighter will, the president seat may create a power vacuum unleashing for the instability. for more of this, i'm not jump professor good to my hope from the germany,
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sued for international insecurity. if it says he's also an expert in latin america and on organized crime as a mild, many of these suspects seem to be colombian. some of them former military, what are the links between haitian hazy haiti and columbia that a lot of different dimensions which come to my mind, especially their truck steel arrangement. and we have seen in the last month and he says haiti has become central point in the transition routes of trucks to the us and to the european markets. this might be one dimension, but we know as well that the former president had, especially in his or economy activities, a lot of different connections to latin american countries. so this might be another dimension. ok. so organized crime is likely to have played a role here. would you agree?
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there could be one point. we must be here that this as a nation could only be managed to local context and local power holders. so we should see these as mercenaries which have been contracted by other people, and we are not sure up to now who is behind all this and we must expect further investigation. you mentioned the internal situation there in haiti. what can you tell us about the general political outlook at the moment? we are in the situation of power by kuhn. we have now since yesterday to prime ministers who are debating their interests to control the situation. there is no parliament which isn't in sanctioning since one year. we had a president which operated by decree is a cream called president has died recently from cove it. so there is no clear
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institutional way of with the challenge. and i think that due to this difficult ensued to should the scenario we need a strong position of the international community is there are no internal opposition. domestic opposition is there. is there a movement forming that you want want to re establish democratic institutions? there is a lot of opposition and it's a main problem. it is fractured it is i'm capable of from national consensus. this opposition is although characterized by criminal interest family, groupings, person the power aspiration. so the national dimension to, from,
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out of the situation is very difficult to imagine. and in some way, international actors such as united nations, us or friends. hesitant to take up this challenge because they know about the difficulties to come to terms with her country. and as it to asian, which is losing the rest of government it had in recent years. there are concerns that this situation, hey, they could turn into an all our civil war. do you agree? i wouldn't speak so much about civil. what would speak more about unknown you? you happens iteration of a security challenge. we have a lot of kidnappings. we have a criminal gangs chuck, controlling part of the territories in the capital being as well in the landscape. so we have to be clear that there is no
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a central power. there is no confidence of population in the institutions. and we have a disastrous economic and co situation, which makes it even more difficult to come to terms that professor into my old from the german institute of the national security affairs. thank you very much for joining us here on the w news. my pleasure. a 2nd look not some of the other stories making headlines around the world today that the british police officer stated guilty to the murder of al serra evarado, a woman who was killed walking home in london in march. wayne cousins had already admitted to her kidnap, and right over its death mark renewed outrage of a male violence against women in the country. russia and western nations are
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divided over getting aids in all west syria from moscow. once the un to authorize the extension of a delivery for only 6 months, but western nations up pushing for one year, millions of people depend on a getting through the bar by the harbor. crossing un security council is expected to vote on friday. just president joe biden. has announced american troops will leave us going to stand nearly 2 weeks earlier than planned by august 31st. that's due by the taliban forces making rapid advances across the country. that withdrawal will bring an end to the longest us war and nearly 20 year conflict. but the part of nato troops is leaving many worried about security, and i've gone this time the, the taliban se disputed shows them celebrating after susan control of the keyboard they're crossing into iran. it was one of several advances made by the militants throughout ganesh, 10 in recent weeks. they've been gaining ground since the u. s. and now the
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departure of its military by the end of august, the same military that asked them from power in 2001 in washington, president biden defended the speed of the withdrawal, saying the u. s. would no longer sustain the human cost of a conflict that cannot change. i've gone instance course gone. and so let me ask those who want us to stay, how many more? how many thousands more americans, daughters, and sons? are you willing to risk? i will much send another generation americans to war and i can stand with no reasonable expectation of achieving the different outcome. but by and also argued, the u. s. had achieved the original goal of routing al qaeda after the $911.00 terror attacks that led to the invasion. he said the decision to leave was overdue . we did not go to afghanistan to nation bill. and it's the right
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and the responsibility of afghan people alone to decide their future and how they want to run their country. just days ago, the u. s pulled out of background air base near campbell, the center of its military operations for nearly 2 decades. the pentagon says the withdrawal of us forces is now more than 90 percent complete. as foreign troops depart, the african military struggling to push back the taliban. like here enough, danny's tons. northwest peace talks between the government and the militants. have so far failed. and many fear the violence will only get worse when the last us soldiers have returned home. and i'm not john for elena. it's fine. oh, she's going to stand director of the german political foundation, the economy of knowledge, different. do you considered a mistake that us troops and allies leave the country and so hastily?
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well, the question was not whether the troops relief but when and how and under what conditions and the unconditional and very quick leaf came as a surprise to everybody. so basically also i thought that at least the united states could, could have negotiated more conditions for the evening for the peace negotiations with a tiny bon. but they did not do that. and so on the way i called a lease, i think they could have made it in a different manner. but i think the question is not whether to leave and also in the community. many people think that it was time for the kind of, for the internet trips to lease, but of course we did not need the high schools and expectations that to be based on the beginning. so that the top one claims they already have 85 percent of the country under their control. the expect them to take over all of have gone down so they didn't get the person. do you expect the taliban to gain control of the whole
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of, of gone down? i don't think the economy will be able to get control and easy read the whole country. and currently we see that they have been gaining all the territory and not in the district, but they avoid of attacking capitals, the provincial capitals and the capital capital. and so also the taliban node. it cannot move the country over themselves and they need the content of the main power broker in the country. and what i see, you know, the strategy is they want to weaken and to put the government of president on me and, and then have a new polish sharing agreement with the other poet sharing power brokers and malicious in the company. that's what i see. what is that strategy currently? so you do not find it conceivable that have gone down falls back to where it was 20 years ago, run by extra serial women have no rights free speech is considered
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a crime. i would say, i don't think it will be the same history repeating itself is the same way, but i feel high respect the company. my again, my and that's when you have frequent haitian, we have the civil war. also, we have the risk that the time i'm come back to power and establish and let me government, but i don't think they will be able to establish the same at that if the 900 ninety's because the society has changed, the young generation has changed. and they will be content that that's how i'm going to be contested. but i see the hybrid that the, that the country segmentation and maybe see a new civic or similar to that of the 1990 is that it's also possible scenario. human, you mentioned that other stakeholders enough down to sun society, the taliban have to deal with them. do you think that could be some kind of
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a sharing agreement? this is actually what the time i'm looking for. they are looking for medic, power washing agreement in which they have a dominant part of the government. and i think this is still a conceivable solution that would be probably the most realistic political solution if you have a solution in terms of a negotiated peace, negotiation and a piece would happen. and i think all the time, i know they cannot go with the poll by themselves. they want international recognition, and they want to get him if they take over the country by 4th. i don't know if i'm going to san director for coma on knowledge. different. think tank and so for your time thank you. you're watching the w news filter come spain as famous for meeting cuisine. our plea for spaniards, the less of it was probably hard to digest. in the 1st,
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the global cove, it 900 destiny this weeks, the past full 1000000, many recent deaths have been in india, which experienced a ferocious new wave of the virus or the infection rates that have started to fall . many people are still living with the lingering effects of a long cove. it through w reporter, news chandry is in delhi where she met with some of those struggling to recover its been almost a month since we broke. otherwise i came back home after a long bout in the hospital. after losing 25 kills and still very weak. the book is now slowly trying to get back to a state of normalcy and the life he had before it was disrupted by a c vehicle with 1900 infection. only she was came to mind in the 60s that i will be able to win up on this battle or not. after struggling, initially, the book managed to get admitted to a hospital when his workplace intervened. off the 50 days he spent that 40 was
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spent in the intensive care unit. he says he lost track of time, of days and nights, and that the time he spent lying in a room tramped with patience, broke his spirit. one thing was happening at the end of a dental day. my legs i, i found that my legs are not working. they are, they are not the part of my body. i was not able to cope with the oxygen mask. what the hell put? and i was really feeling helpless. i said, there is no point in living. no, because i can't cope of a discretion. i left a message to my desk of the brother that i'm not going to say right. i think the lot is going to be my last day. each day he could hear people screaming with pain and discomfort. and each the, he saw some one dying. we both knew he was fighting this infection at the time when the entire city was struggling hard to cope with it. it was his 2 children. he says,
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who gave him the cottage he needed the 1st feeling that was bare with me. 247 was the feel fuel of losing him. you want to return back to normal. you just want to see the was for members of your family. together on the dining table. konica says the experience with their father and the site they saw at the hospital have made all of them stronger as a family. one of the biggest regrets was missing his diamond ceremony from an organization. he spent nearly 4 decades in anna dee had spent months preparing for but he's turning over a new leaf now. i knew the entire focus is on his help. he wants to live along heavy fulfilling life was covered by him is more tougher than the covert thing. i'm really finding it very difficult to cope with me that recovery time because there's already one month. there's already one month. i'm not able to walk even
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that into technical your p. what doctors are telling you protect 6 plus one small slow step at a time. he's trying to move towards full recovery. but with every task still a challenge. he knows it will take a long time. i'm not sure if he w corresponded the message as well in the daily news or the health system, as we saw was totally overwhelmed. we heard in the report that patients so other people dying does india and have to go with a large part of society under post traumatic stress. the 2nd be would definitely be traumatic for many people. it is common for many people to know people among their friends and family died and not just suffered from the 2nd . we have had a significant emotional human financial impact on large numbers for level. on the
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other hand, we also be a surprising bounce back. as you think that's fiction. already markets crowded, restaurant the route, more of the a lot of football as well. maybe you could actually be as you action once again, just before he goes, i'll go through all the terrible time that the country and the doctor had been put through. many also concerned about the matter basketball making back of the year and a half old dealing with ban demonstrates and often much daunting on blender. the desire normally be among many people, whether some has returned to normal locked downs being lifted, but the fight against covert is hardly over. what's the focus of it right now? one of the folk strike now get hot it to fall on one hand. we have the back, the mission drive. on the other hand it is watching out for you. now the indians
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were heavily criticized by many for missing the back of the desktop engine, which detected as early as december. but 3 since march the head, seeing that it was in the end game of quite again, would be the 2nd b as a dead stop reading through numbers about 400000 a day. now the up job that in which the mutation of the death and the indian government has already declared that the bed. and even though this one beach and i'm to get out of the world, this must be was the sequence. but right now it's maybe to tell if it is actually walk and digit all more debbie. well, you mentioned vaccinations, of course. key part of that fight against coven. how's the campaign they're going in india briefly, please. the vaccination period in india are progressing well. the single doors had g above 20 percent of the be about 5 percent in talking with the
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light when it opened up back nation for all the views up, stabilize now. but the up, the low, the government to mark need all of us by the end of the, at the back mission, the probably have to double duty each that correspondence message is all in delhi. then thank you very much. the mission now 2 weeks until the tokyo olympics are due to stop of l. b, a games without fans organizes have announced a total ban on both foreign and domestic spectators. after a new corona, virus state of emergency was declared across parts of japan. the games will be the 1st and elliptic history to be held behind closed doors, and some say they shouldn't happen at all better late than never some might say after a long journey through all of japan's 47 prefecture, the olympic flame has finally arrived in tokyo, one year behind schedule,
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due to the corona virus pandemic, rising cove in 1900 cases in the capital. also, many members of the public were not there to greet the flame authorities announced the state of emergency in tokyo for the duration of the games to try to curb to spread the virus. amid fears of the delta variance, the measure mostly limits alcohol sales and restaurant opening hours to try to stop contagion. but it also means these will be the 1st 2 limpid games without fans in attendance. stadiums like this one will be mostly empty. talk your thought. the government restrictions for tokyo site i'mma can i go and cheap up? anything? sure, that would have capped event attendance at 50 percent, the venue capacity up to $5000.00 people. so the data to go to this, we go, we haven't decided to allow no fans during the games as
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a stricter measure to prevent further spread of the virus that he must stop. the decision has put a damper on the mood, just 2 weeks ahead of the opening ceremony. polls show large swaths of the public. don't want the games to take place. some people are even taking to the streets. who do people? i don't think we should hold the olympics in such a situation together with these people who share my same opinion. we want to protest against the olympics till the very end and we want them to be cancelled. that's why i came here today, going to the organizers are not giving up and are determined to move forward. the olympic flame may be small right now, but they hope it will help spark enthusiasm ahead of these unprecedented games from the people of spain. some of europe's biggest consumers of meats. now spanish
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government minister is calling on people to eat less of it for the good of their own health and the planets. but his message has drawn review from some of spain's, most of mediators including the prime minister, the spain, a paradise for meat lovers. the country's cuisine as famous for its hams and sausages. but the consumer affairs minister has sparked controversy by suggesting the spaniards should change their eating habits, compensated so because what would you think if i told you that excessive meat consumption harms both our health and also our planet? we can change our diet and improve the state of the planet if the minister noted the beef production in particular requires huge amounts of water and produces greenhouse gases responsible for global warming. some surveys have shown spaniards as europe's top carnivores consuming an average. 98 kilograms of meter year. well
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above the average of 76. the suggestion to meet and take prompted the prime minister to weigh in from an official trip to let the weightier estoppel to me cause controversy is personal to me. as far as i'm concerned, there's nothing better than a perfectly done state. interesting body. convincing spaniards to change their meat loving ways may prove to be hard. so a girl in the united states has become the 1st african american to win the national spelling bee contest n u r a y that is correct. on god won the $50000.00 prize by correctly felling the word, maria, which is a generous lot. the girl genius and also a basketball prodigy who old 3 givens world records for basketball dribbling of
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another spelling is just a side hobby. you're watching. the w news is a reminder of our top story. hades police chief says 70 prospects have been detained over the assassination of the country's president. jovan al moiz, several alleged foreign mercenaries among those arrested such thought for more suspected attackers. that's it from me that it seems fatal for peter craven with to the point the the news, the news
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the the the the the to the point strong opinion, clear positions, international perspective. when it sometimes seems that we are indeed losing the battle against climate change. does that mean a cruel future for the next generation? certainly possibility. so why are we unwilling to change the way we live on lived?
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find out on to the point to the point everybody. nobody was always at the wrong time. pain is a warning body and can have many causes. what can we do to prevent it from becoming i was wanting to companion? how can we become finally, pain trained in good shape. 60 minutes on d. w. o. was right in front of them. they're all for this one moment. then suddenly, we agreed to postpone beer or didn't the game central care with 202421.
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strong off course during the qualifying ground. not least for sports heroes. actually, it was a slap in the face, but now we just have to fight their mobilizing super powers. i'm fired up and ready down during walk down the lucky go to tokyo, started july 19 d w. well not. his warnings are becoming increasingly drastic. what we used to call extreme events are suddenly the norm and furnace in western canada with temperatures never before registered were shocked and horrified. but we always had things managed to turn away. devastating stone damage in europe to and more denial. so on to the point we ask climate catastrophe. will we ever change?
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always use the yeah, thank you very much for joining us on the show with us in the studio is paid for in slow old and journalists with the humbug based weekly the site. she's convinced that we will change our ways and life will be better. also with this is claudia comfort from the german institute for economic research. she argues that climate protection means freedom across the generations of fossil free life is not about going without its about living a full life and a warm welcome to, to angelica, i'm a christian who is with them. cato institute also headquarters here in berlin and actually say use for the global side. it's all about reconciling be compensation with justice and poverty alleviation. thank you very much for all for all 3 of you
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for being here today. i'd like to take the 1st question to claudia. it's got to do with the united nations, which is calling the climate change, the defining crisis of our time. indeed un secretary general antonio. good cherish . says climate change called the climate emergency is a race we are currently losing. however, he insist that is a race we can when you share his ought to be. yeah, i share his optimism because we are now at a tipping point. also in the discussions we are at a tipping point related also to social participation on the topic we. we have fridays for future movement all over the globe. we have the rulings, for example, in germany from the general court, but also in other countries. as we see, we see step by step much faster action than before and we have lost
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a lot of time would make more discussions last 15 years. but now we have reached a tipping point where we can change, but we have to act. now. we cannot postpone it to the future, cementing in size, great stuff to begin to show with an amount of information optimistic information to pay through. you wrote a book about how you and your family of 4 tried to adopt a carbon neutral lifestyle. how did it go? what did you learn? so we didn't succeed next. if you failed miserably, we tried the thing, if you try, you fail, you try again. we didn't say on all cones. what we did with was actually happened out of frustration. we were frustrated with the politicians that didn't really act on the facts that we all saw. climate change is effect. we feel it now in canada, if it in germany we feel over the world. so we tried to find out what we personally can do. and we went through a whole year and checked every account of a personal lives. so clothing traveling, the food, we eat,
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the way we live. and we lowered our c o 2 emissions from around 11 tons to 7, which is not actually really good because we need to go down to, to couple of things that you can change because you live in a society, you can rebuild your house from scratch. but we were think they were good way. you, you said it just statements and stuff to show you. we will live a better life. and, you know, the optimism that you see we're sharing and ready to is, is fascinating to me. where does that optimism come from? because i experience that personally my life is better know that was before, for example, we had a car, we don't have a car now. we live in a city. so it's actually easier than when you live on somewhere in a remote area. but it took me about 2 or 3 months to automatically go from when, when i go to work, to use the bike and the car, do you need a certain time to, to, to, to, to, to really get used to the different way of life. and now i don't need to go to
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a spot to do any longer because i bike to work and i back backwards. so i have the sport every day in my life, which makes my life better school. wonderful. angelie. i know it's a big casper try and get me a summer if you can, of how this whole climate debate is impacting india. i think it's pretty relevant in india as it is anywhere else in the world. and i think it's pretty, it's a very, very strong conversation that takes place. and i think it's also reflected in the, the sort of the pledge that india made in the past 2015 agreement. and it was, it was achievable and it can go bit further. but the thing is, what goes back and what maybe restricts the extent to which and get able to sort of commit or be able to make the extra effort is other priorities that sort of india is right now leading to achieve with a growing population with economic growth, not yet, i could speak, it's got a lot of space where it's going to can view more, it's going to admit more. and the ideal sort of a sweet thought would be able to achieve that incremental growth of incremental
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consumption, but not to be additional emission. never be told the the images we tend to see from india foggins smoking, deleon, pretty extreme stuff. you don't come from delhi, do i do? i wasn't born that, but i spend the majority of my life in delhi and i haven't had it for a couple of years. you know, it's as bad as the themes. if the weather is foggy, the air is it is hazy, it's not clear it's does. the news does not sort of give a false impression of how pathetic the situation is and, and that have me. therefore it is not that people aren't doing anything. the government is not up to it that our dog gets there are objectives that are laid down. there are schemes, but it takes a little more than, you know, i think it's a play. it's the demand type play as well as a splice i played. and i think that moving forward, i mean, we're not in a comfortable situation anymore. it's sort of getting to the red line where, you know, we need to really act and we need to really put, put oil here again. and i think sort of,
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we're still finding the sweet spot available to levy a cost on the extra pollution that's been done, but at the same time not put consumers in a position where they can live a happy life. so i think it's a great example daily. i remember that one of the german chances a long time ago made a campaign where he's actually set the sky by the rules of the blue again. and it's an area which was afraid to realize when lot of cold and coal mining and coca cola plants there. and he actually made the plight we, i want the people to to have good air quality. so switching from cold to renewables is a good way to increase the to, to, to, to lead, to believe that people are better life. i completely agree with you. yeah, i completely agree with you, but me on. so in terms of service agreement, because that's the 3 of you and i some of our viewers what states and they're going to say they've all got the same mindset here. alter the me to probably. yeah. and
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that mindset is that climate change is a very real challenge. there are other people that are around the world and there are plenty of them. i think it's all may dump or it's all harmless. claudia, what do you say to people like that to the denies? yeah. well, it's not the science. what those people refer to because the scientific facts are clear and since that decades clear that the human induce climate change is ongoing . and we already see that by now with the extreme events, for example, in canada, was way in russia was phoning for as in finland right now. and the climate ologist tell us that's, that's what we will face in the future. much more than that. we are seeing right now though they are scientists, findings, and the skeptics are also driven by p. r. campaign waste also from the fossil fuel lobby to fix that is showing that they are fueling these p r campaigns in denying
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and merchants of doubt. so to, to see doubt is their business model and we have to look to the facts. i'm a scientist, we are scientists, this the scientific facts. obviously, i would argue, even without believing in climate change, look at delhi to breathe. good aaron delhi, even without believing and the lack of climate change. one better difficult to look the other way. but i think, i mean, of course, i mean it's definitely not easy to be going to work everyday, given the attitude surrounded with. and i think the situation sort of, you could find examples of london in singapore where they've had congestion pricing in beijing. and i mean the solution there are solutions existing across the board where cities have faced maybe to not be extent to which jelly is facing. but sort of been dead and you know, have efforts and policy measures that have been put in place. and i think it's a bit of both. you have someone who is say that it's, it's on the government, the other ones have to make the effort and make sure the, the right policy is um,
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put in place. we can be changing our lifestyles or the routines and bad weather. the other side, if you know there is a little bit of responsibility and the, the, it falls under can, you must meet the right choice. that is the deli, metro cycling is particularly not an option. give it, it's not lean driving. you don't have bike lanes, but it's not something you can you can think of that are from the metro station to the office. if you have bikes being provided, you have ordered action, you have multiple boards of transport apart from private transport. but i think, i mean, there are, there are many other systemic changes that needs to come up before we. so we would be a part of the blame on just the government or just the consumer combine all of this . i mean, you can combine also with climate policy. climate policy creates freedom for many countries for the future generations. climate policy also creates the welfare of all the people and increase as well as well and climate change. it's not, it's not the subject of believe it's really a scientific fact. and as a side this,
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i always have to say that there's not believing into something. it's not a religion, it's facts, it's science and that's where we are all clear on climate policy help a lot. now let's look now at one example of how interconnected our environments are, how be time. so now a lives have become and that example is the massive build up of plus sticks in the world's oceans and rivers. a vacuum cleaner is not enough to combat plastic waste on south africa beaches. millions of tons of plastic particles are now deposited on beaches. all over the world, the rivers are in fact the arteries of these countries that transport the ways from the cities. they also apply to the nile in egypt. here volunteers are also trying to stem the tide of plastic. the fishermen are directly affected. but then i see a lot of plastic by the name of the plastic bottles and also can all of the trashes ruining my net. and at the same time it's killing the piles of garbage are
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accelerating spaces, extinction and climate change. some materials take several 100 years to decompose and will probably never break down completely. meanwhile, awareness is growing about the threat dispose of to humanity. recycling plants do exist, but they can only recycle a fraction of the way it's produced. this is exacerbated by a throwaway society that has become accustomed to having its needs met everywhere at any time inconvenient packaging should be learned to live without plastic. well, that's the question peter, i'd like to just put it a different way. i mean, we through throw huge quantities of stuff, especially plastics, into our oceans, in our rivers. what does that tell us about mankind? human kind. it tells us that we have a problem. it's much larger than climate change. it's is a part of the problem, is this the way we deal with the world? we think the world is just something we can consume and we don't have to get back.
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we don't have to preserve and we can have ever more. and i think this is a misconception to certain extent we have to kind of step back. i think what we really need for 18 months now. my newspapers, i've been reading to, there's going to be a big rethink, a big reset because of the pandemic and has changed the way we think. and the way we see the world, especially the climate issue, how things are going to happen. yeah, i think that are tendencies and showing that a lot of people think overall, whether this strategy of just always more and more and more and also harming the climate, harming the environment is not a great strategy and we should move away. and now we are learning the video conference as we are learning more cycling. but always, i mean it's not only a matter of lifestyle, it's also a matter of transformation which brings a lot of challenges. but brings also a lot of chances to all of us. but also to the industrial, into the system itself and a lot of new jobs and system where capitalism versus climate. yeah. so it's not
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versus it's, it's both together. so in the original form the economy can do a lot and then really classical social, socio economic and logical make, make it together in a certain way, social ecological economics and say, say that way is an issue which we can do. but we have to prize in the environmental damage as we have to price in all the climate damages and we have to transform and that brings a lot of challenges, but also a huge economic transfer. just let me, let me show the folks who slogans out your green revolution. the growth well, i mean, best, they both are the right seminar, logy right now, given become a good estimate. but speaking globally, i think that the road to something that needs needs of wider audience needs a wider discussion, needs a wider platform and right now. so it hasn't happened yet. no,
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definitely not. it hasn't happened yet. and i think we're still sort of mulling over it, that is a huge class of scientists, a political fine. does that have consider going forward with it in terms of research, but the real implementation of it? i don't see the politics denito sticking it up to the extent that it needs to. but if you look at the go, the south where you know we're not trajectories right now. still applauds, did not pick to be not you do need the position in terms of standard living in terms of well being in terms of growth where we can look at the growth. but you still have tried in the are giving carbon nuclear dockets by 20. if it be 2060, despite the fact that it was only less than 2 decades ago, that you know, we had a chance at, at reaching the court. but i mean, having said that, i'd also, i also think claudia said it's not capitalism or climate. and i think it's sort of working hand in hand because to be able to address the climate issues, we need money. and we have fossil inductive, which has the money. so we cannot be walking towards solutions by putting them down
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. and you know, be like, we need the, we need the oil under the ground beneath the gun. yes, we need, but we can't isolate them in our fight and i think it has to be sort of.

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