tv REV Spezial Deutsche Welle April 28, 2021 9:30pm-10:01pm CEST
then tackles the issues shaping the economy now with more time to off on india to work out all the time stuff to you what's making the hittites and what's behind the way on the streets to give you in-depth reports on the inside. w. news africa every friday on d w. i see you chance for i mean let's shift to become much more popular on the campaign trail but the bottom line is that the base did not support lasher don't believe the fake information are you concerned that germany is falling also into a trap when it comes to china we have to take a more talk we the contrast couldn't be more stark last year germany was seen as a role model in fighting the coronavirus pandemic now a 3rd wave is hitting the country hard and merkel's party is slipping ahead of september elections which will decide her successor after 16 years in power my guess this week is your going to hart c.d.u.
member of the german bundestag and spokesperson for the conservatives parliamentary group as germany prepares to move on from merkel in what state does she leave her party and her country. you're going hard to welcome to conflict zone 10016 years of angela merkel and these days the c.d.u. has lost ground in the polls there's been a bitter fight for her succession in the party and corona virus is hitting the country hard issue leaving behind a mass i think we had should have had a tough debate on the question who might successor might be successor from the union as you do see as we would hear from for a chance to ship in germany. through 2 weeks ago we were good formed about that both chairman of the 2 parties matthew souter from c.s. who is. i mean i said from city who both want to run as katie did for
a chance at ship and it took 9 days of discussion in different formats as a party and then the decision came out that i mean i set the cherubs to see the who and prime minister of most from this failure would be candidate i think 9 days is not too much to take such a important decision and looking to zip code in a situation we have heard and learned yesterday from the meeting from the prime minister's visit chancellor that we make huge steps forward concerning that c. nation we are no above 25 percent of corporations and i want to talk about in particular that that battle for succession but 1st let me ask you about a the state of unity at the at the very top though because in the past month merkel very publicly criticized her successor and the party arm in washington you've just mentioned over lock down policies does merkel not want the c.d.u. to be in the chancellor a 4th term. we don't have the feeling that the chance of
a boston voice in that fight between the 2 party chairmen i think she was standing neutral in that position there's some debate i think we in what i just heard about meant you know what i'm talking about forgive me mr hart is is that she publicly on a highly viewed television program singled out that star failing to activate an emergency brake in the face of rising cases he also criticized her lockdown measures as treating citizens like under age children so with rhetoric like that flying back and forth between the top politicians tell us this public display of disagreement when the cd is future claim for the chancellorship is shaky does she not want the c.d.u. to retain power and i don't i don't see that and that way and we have to is to do a show in germany that we have 616 state governments and if it don't understand it was different kind of could be. actions of governments nearly all are led by
coalitions and i mean it's having a coalition including the liberal party which is opposite to the federal government it's a federal level and it's a huge challenge to bend the different minds and moods and the different parties in the coalitions and the states and the chance knows about the difficulty especially i mean that's the test was the liberals which are much more in favor of the opening ringback of business and restaurants for example instead of stating a lock to lock down and this debate was ended by i mean last night and i think the proper way and look to their party reached a. state having a one person majority in the parliament and running a successful government for a over 4 years now this is a impressive result but could there not be not more unity that is the question you mentioned earlier that the cracks that have been openly displayed in your conservative party young in the process to pick the candidate for chance of
described as chaotic public very messy 5 months before you go to a national election don't conservatives need to be more united to win him i think we are in the no no i didn't know behind i mean i said i and expect that it was a christian xhosa union in bavaria and its leader marcus it i stayed close behind the candidate i mean i said we have had this debate in germany also and of the seventy's as you remember 3 years later the chairman o.c.d. we had record was tensed up by getting 48.8 percent of elections and $3083.00 therefore but now it's. just amazing of the people concerning the result of selection and what will be the real result in 5 months there will be huge huge gap between and i hope that you didn't see that and see as who increase they are. they have they have a pulse. and also the result at the end and this also to to the fact that.
most of the people expect that city who can do it better than those have your pens the right hope though on the right candidate because 72 percent of your conservatives disagreeing that you didn't pick the right candidate they say that the c.s.u. candidate marcus said are not the c. to use on lash it was better suited to become chancellor so why didn't you take the most favored candidate i can tell you my experience it was in the spring and 17. my 2 choices from the social democrats far off was fall head off i'm going to mark it as a chance that candidate of the city will seize with the time put to a 2017 elections and nobody believed that it was easy you can do it again and looking to results as a social democrats with multi choice came out very poor office after the last
elections because momentum few on the popularity of politicians is nothing that we can trust on concerning the outcome of elections and i mean lost it by himself he was so far behind the acting prime minister of most of this figure in may 2017 and he won the election but the bottom line is that the base did not support lash at the base of your party your grass roots in your party are said to be frustrated and fact if you're not even listening to them how should people think that you listen to the country don't don't don't believe what you can read the blogs from various day and others in my estimation especially from the debate ends of croup 2 weeks ago where we discussed it was up to 70 and. questions to the candidates in that group meeting and there was no use for the program to around that marcus sort of us was spinning that and i am sure that if we would have. boat
at that time that would be of a charity for i mean like that don't believe the fake information that is sponsored by those who wants to have got that can stop it it's a fight it's not fair in their nation it is important i suppose i started by the sword and by by by the 59 percent that said that i'm an lush it would would not be a good candidate according to dutch law and trend for example i mean there's many polls that that go in that direction but i just like so many home any of this people can't judge on it how many people know about i mean that's it marcus it does much more popular than my beloved ship it's a term to lead and in germany as prime minister who area and i see you chance farming left it to become much more popular and on the campaign trail and he will at the end of city even with the elections but just briefly i mean the city has already lost key bellwether of a national elections in the past months do you worry the same might happen on the national level i don't i don't think so i would like not like to have it i think we have to have the heart to do hard work but you can't do that what is the results in
the last elections were reluctant to reach the 6.7 percent in the last elections it was over 17 and michael save the pseudo last 10.4.5 per cent of area forces it is christian social union therefore i cannot i cannot see that with marcus if you go on a better track concerning success then was i mean i should bottom line there is a sentiment among many in the country that they're tired they're tired of the corona virus pandemic in fact 79 percent also they say that they are not satisfied with the way that the government has managed the pandemic doctors are warning that i.c.u. beds are filling up it's quite a contrast because last year germany was being held up as a role model for fighting the pandemic did merkel get too comfortable i think we have some points about germany as a new leader he wrote if you look for example to the rate of people that died with corona jim. and the talk group. was and is.
significantly lower numbers and several different other states especially sweden are also u.k. also but we have a problem concerning the vaccine the challenge for the opinion is that we are able to develop excellent vaccine like buy and take work seen from from germany but that we are not able to put to use it in high quantities not able to produce it and i quantities because we have kept cities for production of how much work you can produce not as not as for example and india or china or even on us and we have to to face the challenge in europe that we have to come closer to a point where we ought to able to produce such things in our borders we'll get to the vaccine that's certainly something that we're going to talk about but let's talk about the other tools they have had at your disposal because there's been a lot of confusion about the government's measures the delay of the rapid test rollout for example ahead of the easter holiday merkel she tried to institute
a hard lockdown then rolled it back after harsh criticism then took the extraordinary step of issuing a formal apology has merkel lost her way. i think some of us and exuding mean we would appreciate to have something like a hockey lockdown for the 2 easter weeks of the week before and off they used to because we think that schools were closed in that time to see all the days that also business stone around easton and their food would be good chance to reduce the friction rate in germany by doing a hard to knock down for 2 weeks but this was not possible to agree on between 16 different and had so for the goodness and germany and due to the fact that the health policy is mainly driven by the states the federal government cannot push through is actually a measure looking back to what we have packed in the last weeks i think of the number of people that expect that not to part down over at least on would be better
than that but we did and it's increasing but that's happened is nothing and now we have this regulation that about hundreds. we have to to shut down from 10 in the evening up to 5 in the morning i hope that we'll have to reduce the number of convictions the majority of people say though that the federal government has simply repeatedly promised more than it could deliver on the measures that it has had at its disposal and you know you're talking about these these these lockdowns and how isn't it interesting seeing countries for example i think u.k. and the u.s. slowly opening back up on germany is still talking about harsher lockdowns highly controversial night curfews dramatic changes to the law for a so-called emergency brake. i think you're going to all those other countries and you mentioned you mentioned to u.k. the people in those countries have to face much harder and much much harsher transcription than we have had of germany germany was
a relatively smooth swayed to to have his pictures to to to civil rights and that in the face of and go fight in corona and chance that told us looking to london with as it was a genuine february if you have an infection rate about 1800 you have not to put measures by the state because people are afraid to go in street they are afraid to go to work they have prayed to go for shopping because they see the long cross off offer and the medical costs of standing at the hospitals and no place for 444 people that. they need help in the hospitals and this is what we know the german even we have liked. even the situation in the hospitals was always under control and therefore it's might be a little bit more difficult to convince people in germany that we are not on the secure side but that we have to be and take attention on what happens and that we
also have to take my chances of future and the debate is ongoing and the debate is maybe part in germany than in other countries right because we have this federal system between the states and the federal level during the race to vaccinate the population as you've mentioned in germany ranks 15 however when it comes to e.u. countries that have administered at least one vaccine doses among adults adults according to the european centers for disease control is this really a number that a country like germany should be proud of is this the best that the government could it. we decided to take a european common european union solution because we say we have not been invited if we wait seen all germans but people in countries around germany and the cliques united and i think this might come back to us as a boomerang if we don't. creature flu vaccination of all people that are close to us was almost restricted it was featured on the borders which close economic and civil ties and therefore the decision was to follow the european union program but
it's not just about following the european union graham it's about being you know average at best within the e.u. in the way that you have been executing that program and i'd just like to bring in you know one of your fellow lawmakers alexander star from the f.t.p. who says germans they long believed that they lived in a well governed country one that was better run than most other states in europe both assumptions have turned out to be wrong does he have a point. i do not approve this oleksandr coughing up stuff which is a political force appreciated put addition from my point of view of it but of the opposite and he has to his duty is to to put its figures and questions are in critical points we have but look at 2 of the campaign running now 1st i would like to mention that the german government never promised to have another situation and that seen. as other exceeding situation that it is all proposals of the
government about quantities of oxidation and the fog come off what's a nation. we are now up to 25 percent of the population a day by day we could get more 'd than close to one percent in addition to that though that we can be sure that to 100000000 doses of vaccine for 80000000 inhabitants in germany might reach a situation that every german can be very good at and adult german can be vaccinated up to end of july 1st next unaided and send most of them on to a 2nd fixing nation and then in july or august i saw all of the other us market and 2nd acts and so much on us as will see if you can to let you know this is a huge success not only yeah ultimately though i mean even you talked about this common a you approach to back seem to care meant they thought that that germany was very strongly supported however you're now in bilateral talks with russia to secure doses of the sputnik the vaccine is lateral put in really your best hope to solve
this vaccine fiasco issue and there are many i would i would use. a sputnik like scene in case that european medical agency in my might confirm that this is a good vaccine for the pitie with sputnik is that they are not so many quantities of their product that you would not be able to sell it to other countries look into that what happened for example in the balkan states for some of the states. for example i have information that they can get some vaccine from sputnik as have learnt in the last days they didn't have any work seed and now and now they are not able to deliver to the people because at the quantity it's not they have exit the got scene might be will but. also the protection paper says capacities in russia and other states it's a moment too weak to produce a quantities of it but put it want to deliver and even once controversially and i'd
like to move to international relations now merkel continues to back putin's north stream to pipeline despite fresh calls from the european parliament the us and beyond to pull the project over security concerns why is merkel still holding on to north stream 2 when it's a stain on alliances and it puts fresh cash into putin's pockets concerning the no spin to approach it wouldn't gemstone have met never had the chance to convince partners in europe and us that this broader approach at this north timing security interest of europe 'd because one of our former chancellor scatcherd us especially involved in that project and so therefore i can understand that nobody trusts in a neutral and neutral assessment of that by the german government but i can tell you stopping that project no would be a favor for those who invested in its approach or my convention is going to conviction that said this protest is economically
a failure i think to to what change dumping the project and mr what do you mean stopping a project because i mean there's supports for example within your party reports excuse me of of growing support for a moratorium in your party so 1st of all is that is that what you're talking about and if that is the case is that the best hope to kick the can down the road so essentially someone else an ally the next chancellor can take decisive leadership on whether or not this pipeline will ever operate it would be possible by german law maybe it might be really posted. by german law to stop that project but then you have to compensate all those who are invested in that project because you can stop that project but it's on a legal. it's built on a legal base and therefore you have to compensate those who invested in that and my my belief is that that this project is economically a failure because we don't need to that pipe to get enough gas for germany or europe and therefore all all those companies that invested in that project have to
face the challenge that they that project potentially this project is economically economically a failure and in case that the german taxpayer is company pumped compensating that for those companies they would laugh about and therefore i think we should concentrate on the question what about energy security in europe german government should present to our partners in europe and us a broken how to be talk about security of energy in europe and with that although it's a question of russian gas can be on some but but but but mr hart you know russian aggression has been on the rise for years of course so the question is how did you get to this point and is it time to admit that merkel finds herself in a bit of a trap over north stream the project as you've highlighted more than 95 percent complete pulling political backing could be costly. didn't merkel missed her window to take decisive action is she in a trap of her own making we took russian gas also in the seventy's that's at times of a union gas in the seventy's been bieber on the cold war and believe me learnt that
economic relations are to soviet union it's a time now to russia not not at risk for security but also a chance to make. it dependency of russia on european politics and maybe to influence what happened in this country in the long term situation i i think that we have to discuss about independence of your peon union energy security. that's the proposal of us we should take more gas we'll ukraine instead of north korea this doesn't change the fact that it's russian gas that is that is discussed that comes that cut that comes from states with companies and russia and the independence of one source like russia for gas it would not be changed if we decide to not take it that it was crossed me too but you create there for you the arguments of the other side also very weak let's let's switch gears just briefly
and talk and talk about china are you concerned that germany is falling also into a trap when it comes to china because after years of fostering business ties your main business association is now saying that the west strategy for opening up china has failed they call it a wake up call is it a call that germany is potentially answering too late we have a german in the pacific strategy and we have 10 chief of the european commission 2 and a half years ago on a more tough strategy on china i think we should match u.s. and north america very close and the question how to be face so even creasing and. because if news of china by mixing political and economic interests together and i know as a german that we as germans have to to lose a lot because some of our industry is very much depending on that and bed profits
they they do and try to but look to that watch in china is ongoing increasing pressure on people on human rights and also increasing pressure on taiwan we have to we have to take a more tough way including the question of our economic relations how tough do you think that strategy though appears to the chinese when you have human rights concerns overshadowing this investment deal for example with china that germany pushed through in december on it under its presidency you couldn't even get any meaningful commitments on. human rights there were just vague promises on labor rights including forced labor did it send the wrong message to beijing european union did that works for example us to preserve us before i think i was strategy is and should be the common strategy of the best and vote to bring shine a picture on to following international regulation and international law or and having set of regulations back china's agreeing on and we have the chance
potentially also the chance to judge on whether they follow or not expect them to have sets of wild west situation as a disparate tension he now but i think only a common approach between u.s. and european union is helpful on that field and therefore i expect that you opinion and also the acting and the new government have tends to. close their rows together with north america because our leverage is much bigger if we work together instead of doing it on a on a single signal by the to the way between european union and china let's go back to the elections 16 years of angle americal she came to power with a new c.p.u. after helmut kohl do you think that the end of her era will also lead to a government where the c.d.u. need some time in the opposition to rejuvenate i mean we've talked about divisions in the party the pandemic an assertive russia and china are you heading for the opposition i think that the government needs see who sees it will and i hope that
this if you seize it would also present the next chance because of the fact that we might come out as the biggest party out of that elections and looking to that but i'm going i'm actually reached i think the economic benefit. of hope. it's perfect we've never saw such a. continuous and long. boost in the economy in the last decades and we all. to see. the fields in the kate folks we have some maybe they have some some some at the likes of where we have work to do this is for meeting for insecurity issues closer relations between us and in for repeat foreign security issues even in china going to see in russia or b.c. you're going how we have to leave it there thank you for joining us on conflicts on that i.
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