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tv   Hearing on the Rise of Authoritarianism  CSPAN  January 26, 2022 2:45am-4:11am EST

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>> all over the world.
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with the most democratic body in the world of the united states. and therefore we know that things are hot and no question those are we hear from the global threat. watching the events of january 6 from my window where i am sitting now with the east and the west side from the steps of the capital and the attempt to overturn the results of the democratic
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election. in the house foreign affairs committee all the conversations with my counterparts around the world my concerns are the same this is what january 6th and assemble we serve a broad. what this signifies about the threat may see whether the rise of authoritarianism will continue to intensify and threaten the solution. we may have the world longest lasting constitutional democracy it's not perfect and then to become a more perfect nation and founding our constitution that all men are created equal and that.
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does it not include? even today we see voting rights under siege in state after state. those who want to see democracy fail, to justify the authoritarian regime by pointing to our flaws. and that they are model is a better alternative. but i am here to tell you they are wrong. and they fundamentally misunderstand the foundation of our morals the power of america's example is not that we are perfect but america to become a more perfect union. and with that discrimination and injustice. is my role as chair to help guide it. we must do so to be honest of what is ahead of us to call
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out human rights injustices around the world wherever and whenever they occur. and this committee we look at the frontlines of democracy. and try to beat the great actors that belarus, or and today's guest are leading historians and thinkers about democracy totalitarianism and the lesson we can learn from this through about today's world. so i think to those for joining you have an interesting dialogue and conversation this morning and i will forward to that conversation so before we do that to representative joe wilson from the great state and south carolina global counterterrorism subcommittee
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for any remarks you would like to make. thank you. i now yield to mr. wilson. >> thank you for your terrific leadership we appreciate you very much and thank you for holding this with the importance of bolstering democracy on the authoritarianism democracy is under constant as we see adversaries like china and iran seeking to admissibility undermine systems to weaken democracy around the globe. the pandemic has given one of the dictators to suppress their own countries under the guise of emergency declarations. the tools both at home and abroad have become increasingly sophisticated as we watch the right to ukraine sovereignty by lieutenant taking place in real time and threatening the safety of
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ukraine families. 43million people and risk of mass on —- mass murder killed the russian aggression and then the energy and independence of europe as a reminder the best tool against authoritarian expansionist each and every form to achieve peace and strength. while this must be bipartisan the biden administration failure to fully had mechanism like enforcement of sanctions to the will not dictators is disappointing as those negotiations are taking place it to a weapon containing to exploit terrorism and missiles to destabilize every country it touches the drone attacks on saudi arabia and the united arab emirates. just this week those who have
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no meaningful indicators to change behavior is meaningful leverage that democracies cannot afford to lose. and then to be surrounded changing by the genocide committed by uighur muslims. no population feels the effect of the threat to democracy more than the 23 million people of taiwan who live under constant threat of invasion force reunification. the ccp expansion playbook is multifaceted and reliance on international policy that used to allow it to continue and then developing countries and strategic expansion the exploitation and the manipulation of global markets. and that requires great nation from allies is set robust
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international standards and they rely on the polls and they used to love the laundry and in which themselves. regarding technology the united states can assist our allies to establish committees of foreign investment to review the transactions to prevent the authoritarian countries i'm grateful to have on the united states european union to launch the parliamentary alliance a crime on —- against laptop receipt laptop receipt. and then to have corruption through web talk receipt and then i am happy to work with the helsinki commissioner and then to put forward a framework to incentivize the
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financial sector and then the institute of commerce to undermine democracy within. i'm always reminded by winston churchill. we know democracy is the worst system on her except for all of the others. we are grateful to see the background of our panelist they are extraordinary backgrounds i like hearing from them. i yield back. >> now i will introduce our distinguished roundtable guest. first a staff writer for dealing to and the prize-winning historian also senior fellow at johns hopkins where she codirects a program on this information and 21st century propaganda. "washington post" columnist for 15 years former member of the editorial board covered the collapse of communism and as a correspondent at the
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economist magazine and mr. timothy snyder professor of history at yale university and the permanent fellow and then that committee and with political thought. and as a scholar at oxford from estonia and then to turn to the professor for her remarks. >> thank you members of congress and ladies and gentlemen. all of us have on our minds and image of what we think and
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on aquatic state looks like. there is a bad man at the top that controls the police may be the police threatened people with violence and they have collaborators. but in the 21st century that person and nowadays on talk with the isn't just one bad guy that the networks by the financial structures and those of other democracies and securities services and military group surveillance and professional propaganda. and another of the networks are connected not within the any given country but many countries but the corrupt state-controlled to deal with a counterparts and the police force in one country can equip and train others and
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especially the evil of america. and that there is a conspiracy or a supersecret room where the bad guys meet with a james bond movie. but this does not have a structure let alone the ideology and that noted the people who call themselves communist and the crowds. washington likes to talk about china and chinese influence. but with really thinks this is not china but a common desire to preserve their personal power. so unlike military or political alliances, the members of this group don't operate like a block but a loose conglomeration of companies. and then not by ideals and
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those to replace western sanctions and to make them personally a rich that's what he can operate so easily to those historical lines and so in theory venezuela the country is an international pariah since 2019 companies have been for bit into do business there and they have sanctions there as well. venezuela receives lawns and oil investment from moscow and beijing. turkey facilitates the venezuelan gold trade. cuba has provided security. international narcotics trade individual members of the regime very rich.
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democratic responses have been over the past decade and then depressions of deep concern cannot feel concern things to the high level of wealth western sanctions a nothing to autocrats you know they can trade with one another as we are seeking one of the most aggressive dictators he can
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survive and set up his own financial system and cut off gas supplies to europe and wait for the anger to die down and then carry on. and translating there will be no significant military support for ukraine or mankind respond to cyberattacks or for russian language or broadcasting and media or the russian opposition. and he is calculating the current strategic posture will not shift and those that are watching are waiting to see how it plays out. of course he is calculating that autocracy and that systemically are stronger and more determined. i hope we will prove them wrong and will have influence
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in those decisions. thank you for your time and attention today i appreciate this committee holding this meeting. >> thank you professor. >> i now turn to professor snyder for his remarks. >> chairman, thank you very much, representative wilson, staff, thank you for organizing this. i'm very glad to be here today and has made a number of excellent point from the point of view of the autocratic regimes themselves. what i would like to do is make a few points about the weakness of democracy, so what are the things that are wrong with our systems that we may not see? what are the openings or apertures or vulnerabilities that might be clear from the
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outside that we ourselves may not be able to perceive in our daily work and life? >> it's important to start repeating the point made in different ways that mainly this is global. things that happened in belarus are venezuela or slovakia matter in the united states and people that impose democracy at the moment are better connected than the people who are in favor of democracy. it works the other way as well. every time we passed the voter suppression law. it's completely visible all around the world and becomes not only part of propaganda for beijing or moscow but also part of the daily existence to other democracies that are disheartened by the things that we do. and to treat all around the world is not a coincidence.
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it is a single process we are a major part and in which everything we do has global implications. the second point has to do with ideology which applebaum also raised it's completely correct to say that in general with the lack of ideology or lack of common ideology. but we can turn that around and ask about ourselves. what exactly is it we stand for? i think we have a problem in representing the ideals and the achievements of democracy actually are. we took a bit of a mental and a moral break that history was over. there was no alternatives with larger mechanical outside forces. like capitalism. it's important to recognize that we have learned that is
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simply not true. those including the market which is a good thing but no outside forces which bring democracy on their own. it is a matter of people ruling if we don't have an account why then democracy will lose. after this long period when we think democracy is inevitable now in the past five years shift that is under threat and certainly it is but the danger is that we are only on the back foot talking about the bad actors surrounded by enemies that we don't talk how it is a superior system need to get back in the habit of talking about democracy is a superior system not just under threat to the kind of historical default which it isn't but a superior system which is worth striving for and politically because it leads to better policy outcome.
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>> and it connects to another problem for us that we are having a hard time talking about the future democratic politics works when there are two or more doing visions of what the future should be. american and politics and it has shifted much more into a system when one side talks about a glorious past and the other side is trying to defend the present i will mention republicans and democrats as a global trend we seem to lack visions of how they could be different and better than they are and how things are better and different it's very hard to have a competition of ideas or political parties and as an aside has a great deal to do
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with this because global warming means that young people are distracted from democracy with an existential threat. and it also means in the way that local newspapers have been consumed since 2008. most counties in the united states no longer have a reporter so most of the geography in the united states is now a news desert and we know from russia that when
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local news goes away and media is consolidated that's a step toward authoritarian rule so factual valid he is something we need to be supporting those institutions not just the right to freedom of expression and around the world doing very courageous things we wouldn't and inequality of wealth and that for those in the hands of power those who run the state to have many and as everybody onward has pointed out consistently that is inconsistent with democratic rule it's very important to have those measures in place but it's
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also very important for us keep our eyes on equality brown country. >> if you have too much wealth and equality you have two systems one for the rich and one for the poor and the final problem and want to mention is the problem of stagnation and legalism the problem by which democracy is a matter of law and not a matter of principle so are very good example of this is hungary it's hard to say where it ceases to be a rule of law stay in somewhere in the past that exactly what measure would two.2 to say this is happened? >> everything that happens according to her own laws was
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legal but nevertheless at the end of the process there is no democracy these tactics or death by a thousand cuts is something we are vulnerable to and it's very important we think of democracy not to identify with legality there are good laws and bad laws in one way democracy falls is by laws being passed that slowly undercut the spirit of democracy to the moment where you realize when people realize voting is just a ritual. and then in a zombielike situation where things are happening and they are no longer represented. and that's also what we are at risk. thank you for your attention. >> thank you very much.
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>> thank you for those thought-provoking words. so now we will turn to the question portion of the agenda and i will start off we have the clock open from members have five minutes to ask questions and that which he will be called. so let me address my first question to professor snyder and i always say that camera of history is recording what we're doing today to protect our democracy moving forward that people will move back in history will move back and judge what we did do or didn't do so as i think about russia today, how does today's russia use history which is seem like
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mr. putin is doing to justify the action in ukraine for example? should we treat highway do you say tree and look at history and members of congress and to judge what we should or should not do to preserve a democracy in our country and globally? but that was a terrific and profound question and will make a superficial point and i will get to your question about history the very superficial point is that democracies tend to be more peaceful and authoritarian systems and the more democratic you are the harder it is to assemble a coalition for a foolish word. so in a very straightforward way but we are witnessing with russia and ukraine has to do
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with democracy mr. putin is in a classic authoritarian situation where he has to provide some type of spectacle and domestic politics are totally blocked so they have to do something else energies abroad and you have to do something militaristic. but the question about history is extremely well taken and then the rewriting and basically asking america to conceive of the dreamer with the soviet union never collapsed and that willing allies are always willing and the responsibility of the united states at the european
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countries don't have their own aspirations. there is a counter history with russian diplomats are forced which makes it very difficult to have a conversation. at a deeper level, then to turn history that we are always right and the dictator gets to decide we are. so russia has in place a set of memory laws which makes it a criminal offense to speak about the way the second world war began which was as an alliance between nazi germany and the soviet union and there is a crime in russia and you can be punished for speaking the wrong way about stalin and the second world war so group of courageous activists of the
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terror in the soviet union that are under attack in russia and as part of the antidemocratic playbook and we know why that democracy is self correction so maybe i made a mistake maybe i voted for the wrong person and that democratic nation is what people say maybe we made a mistake not to giving blacks the right to vote maybe we made a mistake with abc ndn you can only have that discussion that allows self correction with history and it will always be a little uncomfortable history will always involve divisive concepts it will always of all
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students coming into a classroom and learning things they did not learn at home and to be surprised by them so in order to have a democratic future and with evidence and with democracy and then those nefarious actors those pre-existing conditions in societies and then on social media and so what are the easiest pre-existing conditions of a dictator even in a democracy of the society?
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>> thank you for that question mr. chairman. >> this is not binary that those in north america are the good guys and the bad guys are somewhere else. one of the great success not just a country but many other democracies the past couple of decades has been in creating their own influence operations using a social media and new technology also through political influence campaigns with the buying and selling of politicians the former chancellor working for major company and then through the use of purchasing companies that russia does and china and
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does. they can all large companies and have the power to influence our politics and the politics of our allies, they will do so. speaking of it's important to understand it's nice to talk about the bad guys and make it easier but they are also among us am part of the problem we have to deal with to make sure that we are not host and for that disinformation. and that is a long one by let me just say that there is one element and that more people believing with the campaign. and that is polarization so that when you have deep political divisions and that
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they spend a lot of time as they do in russia. and mother profound levels of distress with different parts of society it is much easier to convince people to believe in mythology of one side or the other. so i believe there are technical solutions to some of the trap social media has created to mitigate that maybe that's a conversation for another day but it's important to understand the fundamental basis is because the politics of many allies have built up the high levels of distrust of society. and that is part of the answer. >> my time is long expired.
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afterwards calling on members. >> and then alternate between democrats and republicans. mr. wilson. >> what a wonderful hearing and a wonderful way to end the week. it really is a bipartisan concern with the chairman leadership and working with the ranking member and opening again to the professors who are making such a difference in this has been reassuring and we want you to be aware we have a shared heritage as you are married to a polish citizen. my oldest son, alan is very happily married to a polish-american journalist. and currently what a time in history in 1988. and with that we see the
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autocrats are working together. and yesterday was another horrible example that the mass murderer turned illegitimate iranian president visited the kremlin yesterday and reports indicate they have joint naval exercises with china and russia and iran. what can we do? does this indicate a concern truly about how effective we can be working in a democracy? >> thank you for that question and congratulations your son. and then to have russia which is a naturalist dictatorship and then we have iran which is a theocracy yet we are all
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able to work together. and so the response has to be in the re- strengthening and reordering of our own alliances and what alliances are for. so if ukraine needs to be a member of nato and if it is reinforced militarily and if putin was certain and then come to the aid in the case of and invasion and although you think many of the solution are in the realm of funding for media and democratic opposition and links in there is also a piece of the story and then to make sure the pillar to on —- and then other
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parts of the world are functional and working in the net democratic alliance and as a democracy comes to the aid of other democracies. and then pause to think about it before they ask. >> and that deterrence we just got to be focused on deterrence and not figure out how to respond to mass murderer. and then professor snyder that we need to point to the positive as the chairman said in the beginning it is america's greatest country of democracy. in bulgaria 1980 and felt like i was in the 1930s.
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it was pathetic i was there this summer and what a modern country it is today and vibrant. to see the blessings of democracy. and with that. and then to me something has to be done and i have urged the president to make a statement to clarify that north stream to would be terminated if there was an invasion. we need to cut off the financing what would your view be of toward stream to? >> my view is that with the scandal from the very beginning. we should not talk about to cancel it now that never should have arisen. it was a matter of germany and other partners rewording russia for invading in the
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first place it was a way for russia to reinsure the position having invaded the neighboring country so it is a scandal from the very beginning. and obviously but that's my view. >> i say amen. thank you very much. >> starting with representative for five. >> . >> and i was truly looking forward to this counsel before your insight is so helpful as
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we struggle through these issues and i word ask him night of what you just said asking the question to rethink what alliances are for, i would ask both of you, given the conversation this far , professor snyder you talked about the zombielike democracy and the challenges with young people and obviously the autocrats around the world and democracy and if we were starting fresh as we look to countries around the world what should be the basis? where does democracy fit in and how important or central or necessary as it relates to
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security concerns and other areas we think of. >> i love hearing from both of you on. >> i begin with the distinction between democracy and security concerns may be a false distinction. i don't think there is a greater threat to the security of the united states and democratic collapse and that has a domestic component there should not be a higher security priority and the affirmation of democracy around the world. and to identify ukraine as a democracy that is under
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threat. and what applebaum and others have said about the lack of a clear ideological opponent but there is no bull's-eye. we have to be clear on what we are ourselves that is the notion of summit for democracy and the goal of alliances can be not just to keep democracies going back to strengthen democracies. but the ultimate aim is not that containment but the spread of democracy as a better system.
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and then to ask you to speak with the place social media and either in spreading democracy or preventing the spread of democracy. >> thank you very much so i would echo what tim said first about understanding about being for democracy rather than against china it is a useful way to clarify the situation and then we have allies who are non- democracies and not excluding that relationship but to understand fundamentally what we are for and the problem was social media is that it is not structured to promote democracy or even goodwill or good relationships or good
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conversation. the social media algorithm that determines what we all see are designed of conflicts or anger or disagreements those are the things that make messages spread faster i don't think social media is the only source of current division that we see in so many others but certainly part of what is created more difficult conversations. and not where people are posting or some form of censorship but there is a need to look at the algorithms how they function who controls them because as i say right now they are not set up to promote civil debate that almost exactly the opposite. to create more anger and
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emotion and division. i do hope the u.s. congress will eventually look at the problem from the single is not who gets to take or decide what is taken down but what is the metric by which they are operating? it seems there is a bipartisan way to agree we want civil conversation or measured in balance language. and of course one of the first countries to understand was is russia and that's why we can do that successfully in the united states and other countries to use the anonymity to disguise the true origins but others have looked at the same thing and to have groups on both sides of the political
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spectrum. and finding a fix for that problem will help in the long run. >> . >> we have a votes on the floor. and how they did remotely and some who are voting remotely or are not can come back. and those that don't have to leave. and then if they don't have the opportunity to answer questions. >> and with the recessing and
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i am part of the lawsuit that says we should not do that, et cetera and how about i go vote and i will come back? that want to miss votes. so when my turn comes up as the next republican if that's acceptable. >> it is to me. >> i yield back to the next republican. >> . >> now we turn to the representative for his question.
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>> so are there any republicans that are still on? or have they all gone to vote? so that being the case i don't see any republicans on the screen at this point. that when they come back then they may go in order or have two or three go directly. >> you go to representative
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keating for his question. >> thank you mr. chairman. and then talking to my german officials a couple of days ago even the firmer chancellor merkel's position, they would not go ahead operationally and with toward stream to if russia would be aggressive with ukraine. professor snyder i just want to quickly agree in terms of messaging we have to do a better job to say democracy is a superior system some of the countries that are referenced privately, we are talking about the young people losing help no chance for a job or future.
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the aspirational benefits of a democracy provide these young people with hope and we have to do a better job. and then to appreciate your efforts. and then looking in the mayor. a hardluck we have to do more. we are doing that with a professional caucus now. and then the resources necessary. and you have to look at transparency. and i point this out because it is so obvious and you have to talk about it but those conflicts are rampant. and that's in terms of conflicts and prior to making
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that decision in ukraine to say the properties that he had an in sample the person that was given the position in the middle east to oversee what was going on jared kushner having a business interest and event issues like with a prestigious golf course championship these are all examples of how we have to be more transparent to put safeguards with the uk so how can we better face the issues and is an important if we try to influence other countries that we are clear to do
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everything we can on these issues ourselves? >> if i may answer i agree with that wholeheartedly not only me who agrees of that but the russian opposition so if you are to ask in autocracy's around the world with the single most important thing they would like to see happen that would be the end of money laundering the and fresh and oligarchs using that financial system to hide their money and this is one of the main sources of power and this is how they keep their money they don't come from rule of law society so they put their money in places that do have rule of law and both at the
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national level we have a particular problem with some states that have enabled people to anonymously park their money there is a lot of legislation on this i was glad to see the biden administration now puts club talk or see it's at the state department looks at as part of that conversation of the senate. is not just something the treasury does but moving to the center of foreign-policy and that is crucial and important and both for our own system is easy for people inside our own country to have connections but also for the sake of movements around the world.
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many autocrats are able to stay in power things to their western connections and western banks you mentioned uk but also germany and france and singapore if we can work together with our allies to prevent that, we will make a big difference. >> doesn't have to be better addressed here? >> as an american resident was killed brutally and cut up. and then later on to help cover that up and have business interest in turkey and saudi arabia. >> and transparency at home and businesses all around the
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world and then the end and that is a mechanism with the former president were able to take money from around the world with anybody knowing it all of those things are hugely important for our system for a cause of democracy around the world. >> i yield back. >> representative? >> thank you very much for committing the roundtable for your extraordinary presentation we have focused a lot on the dissemination of false information and the gigantic platforms and with
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that the most provocative controversial things that are shared so it is a business model that facilitates false information so this way to attack the way it is shared is one of the most powerful tools authoritarians are using to be widely accepted. that is very much facilitated by social media platforms who are designed to really be a partner. i think it's a problem in the united states so until we fix
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that we will not remove what i see as the most powerful tool that emerging autocrats can use. >> as i said previously is not the only source polarization but tackling that word eliminate a great deal of the emotion and anger not just in our politics but our allies in great britain and germany and austria and france and many other places you can see the impact of the higher levels everywhere. and i do believe it is possible to address this with the regulation or the demand
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for a transparency for those algorithms and then that is ending are changing that is allowed on line and those are things that can be done to see social media companies is not censorship it can be done in a bipartisan way. >> they will not accept that but that is a conversation we have to do it and that's very much what professor snyder said that is directly related on these platforms to gobble up the contents but my real question listening to your presentation is the conduct of elected officials in our own country talk about challenging the truth and promote the lie. we have that so you can claim
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that joe biden did not win the election but trump did in the attack on news sources like fake news and attacks on the judiciary and the willful failure to fill failure to comply so one of the things we have to look at and frankly i think many of our colleagues need to understand what damage does that do in our effort to show the world how democracy works when so many of the characteristics that you both describe are happening in america by a major political party? how does that translate to authoritarian people who are trying to fight for democracy and what damage is being done by elected officials that have the same behavior that you described?
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>> so the answer is already in the question so for people around the world taking risks for democracy risking going to prison i have friends and colleagues who are in prison and suffering other ways are traumatizing other ways because they have taken the risks for democracy. so for people like that to look at the united states and the such gross dereliction and obvious contradiction with those principles we are supposed to hold is very disheartening and is also practically a tremendous problem because we demoralize
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people. and we don't set that example a make it harder for those courageous people to gather other people around them. and to put it a different way. but that lack of ideology. and then blessing on the other people whatever their cover ideology is as mr. trump did all that matters is the transactional that matters is the outcome were not justice empowering those taking risks but empowering those it is all just a game and staying empowering me having many. >> i would add to that we know what the united states has done for democracy.
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and we have some good tools we have and radio free europe radio free liberty and radio free asia but the most important tool and the arguments for democracy was their own example and it was the power of the american example. even people who hated some aspects of society that we made mistakes around the world nevertheless, admired that democratic urge in our society with the ability to reflect on history to make mistakes. that openness is our conversation that economic success so that is one of the
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most important sources for the spread of democracy over the last century. and the loss of that example and the fact we are no longer seen as a leading democracy and has an impact everywhere and is partly why russia and china and iran feel they can move forward it's what gives them the believe they could win and it's the perception our democracy is damaged and therefore and other places is weekend. i agree with the premise of your question but that we have not impart lost it already letters happening now is a profound tragedy.
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>> thank you chair for supporting the hearing on democracy. i like to start off with democracy at home. the former president lost a popular election by 7 million votes and states that many republicans push the big lie that somehow the election was stolen and that is the attack on the capital with 140 law enforcement officers were brutalized. the big lie is continuing even though it's been more than a year since the election, republicans still cannot explain who stole the election or how it was done and that's because it was not stolen. however we continue to see this animating political violence.
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bill bar did tell the former president to his face the conspiracy claims were able ship we also saw senator who came out to say basically the election was fair and he urged other republicans to start saying the same thing so how important do you think it is that republicans are telling the truth to say one simple statement that the election was not stolen for purposes of bolstering? >> thank you very much for that question. i was very concerned in november and december what mr. trump was doing and that's when i started to talk about the big lie. and the consequence that creates a turn on —- alternative reality and it can
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create a filter for who really belongs to political parties. and also as a consequence truth becomes not what you and i can find out but the person at the center of the cult of personality. all of those are reconcilable with democracy and those in what the big lie does it take someone who is very powerful and turns them into a victim and take someone who actually tries to overcome an election and turns into a victim and then once the big lie makes you a victim that authorizes you to do whatever you want. it authorizes you not to play by the rules. it's a tactic which precisely what is used by the nazis.
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the idea that we are the victims and the ones who have been oppressed and have the right to do whatever we want. the big lie is extremely dangerous in the united states. i wish in 2020 there would be more americans who accepted the basic reality much sooner because we let this get way out of hand. political science point and means there is a political party concentrating on gaming the system as opposed to policy. so you can either become addicted and the more you try to gain the system then the less interested in policy. then you thank you can do anything else. but that leads to stagnation and resistance and then they
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say it's a game and we will not pay anymore but it is essential and the sooner the better we get back to common sense on this issue and then compete over policy differences rather than trying to work the system. >> i'm happy to go the sentiments and also add upon further reflection that most autocrats have come to power on the backs of well organized lies —- lies designed to create mistrust. what is the function the 2020 election was stolen? it is a conviction that everything they believed in what is wrong. every political institution is lying.
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congress is lying to the fbi, cia, police, the people who count the votes. everybody is lying and it is a sense of profound distrust. it is that distrust and people who feel alienated from politics to than the no other recourse or ability to influence events except through violence. that is a phenomenon we have seen repeated before and that cycle has completed itself. so one of the reasons i'm so worried about it happening in the united states because i recognize it and this is why it is so important so people who do have influence with
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their political or business or religious leaders, but they began to work with our population to bring them back to the mainstream political system to convince them that democracy works. i don't think as we do have a deep division in our society. >> i yield back. >> thank you. this is been an interesting conversation. during the cold war in many cases united states calculated that i would argue we are having similar conversations now. i was hoping how that relates
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to the broader question and what kinds of lessons are to think about from the soviet union and usually with picking the partners. >> if i understand the question correctly it is about lessons from the cold war to the present and that is a little tricky because we are not in a cold war situation facing a single ideological enemy operating in many different countries around the world but a variety of enemies but that we should be structuring the alliance that is right and the meeting we should be thinking about is what is that our allies would be doing with us today?
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if we were looking at civil military defense or a land war how do we are per on —- now we can be focused on things like how do we get the end time under money-laundering laws on the same page and make sure we as germans as the french and the japanese and australians are thinking the same way about sanctions and boycotts? how to use our resources in america and britain and asia and south america to support independent media around the world? the tools we should be using to fight is what we should be using in concert with others. >> let me just step in. sorry to interrupt but i think alliances are important but what i'm trying to ask about is often but some of our allies are in the
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authoritarian camp. even in some of the people by the countries that you have cited. so how do we think about our partnership and how we are building this structure in the context of democracy and authoritarianism? >> in a way we're in a simpler situation than the cold war because communism was coherent it's easy to be drawn and on the side of other anti-communist. that now the pallet of democracy is so confusing and contradictory that we don't face the same kind of temptation to believe that
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everyone anti-communist is on our side even during the cold war. but one lesson as we did well when we used it to promote a sense of what was that about democracy and that is as widespread as our and literature that we actively promoted the progressive side of american culture during the cold war. to young people around the world is a great deal of success. the other thing we should mention is that because there was a coherent other than civil rights or the welfare state but we miss that the
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arrival from the left but now it is just cynicism and money gathering as everywhere. so what is harder about the end of the cold war is we have to assert these things ourselves and more clear of what we stand for. it was a harder problem but what we are not using in my view is europe and the european union. not everyone is in a democracy but most of them and then that will see a set of continuous democracies we can't then that specificity it is the union.
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>> i yield back. >> thank you mr. chair and doctor, you mentioned as one of your concerns and we talk about that we talk about the local press that is an enormous problem in my district. but we see the growth of conspiracy theories which i don't believe would be remedied and that psyche throughout our history have been a dangerous indicator using that as an example a spike of anti- somatic conspiracies of they do know the history and impact of
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anti- semitism but too many american results know about and with the children of the holocaust and only 42 percent became chancellor so how do we combat conspiracy theories it's hard to believe and how do we increase knowledge and understanding and the history not only of democracy that really? >> so number one, social media is a conspiracy factory. it works to promote conspiracies. and unfortunately the idea of a jewish international conspiracy.
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>> it is unmistakable if there is and with the certain variance the entire first glance those that are real like q-anon. that but again it is under that anti- somatic hope and then the simple addition it is because they give you an answer for everything. they explain a but and then to
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be in such a way to give you the stuff that you want to hear what you want to fear in a conspiracy period as both the way to understand the world and make sure afraid at the same time so it's candy on social media unfortunately we have to talk about the algorithms mother radio or the newspaper or the book it brings complete chaos and people have to get together to guide that medium in a better direction and then including of having the default and then people have to choose that away. because we talked about but
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then to normalize those externalities but i think it point that we have neglected history it's all about problem-solving and the than as you say the history of the holocaust that all but that is
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what history is four we have really lost. im pleading case but it's something you feel very strongly. >> thank you representative and member questions but that
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is why because they are very intriguing then to go backwards but then that's the biggest in the world. we are clearly a in history and.
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>> in the senate last month and that reminds us about the world stands to lose. and again thank you to our guest for your time for working on this committee as well as democracy around the world for better future with a strong and more resilient democracy to our children and grandchildren and i often say what we are here to do that tomorrow is better for our children and today or
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yesterday. thank you so very much for[appl]
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