tv Arizona Election Officials Testify on 2020 Election Audit - Part 2 CSPAN October 8, 2021 6:16am-7:01am EDT
>> the committee will come to order. the gentleman from georgia is recognized. >> thank you, madam chair. it is no secret this country faces an uphill battle in restoring trust and integrity in our elections. democrats claim republicans condition win races fairly in 2000 and 2004 and since 2016 we have listened to the left repeat the lay that rausch sole election. that has been residented now almost five years. the same voices are beside themselves that republicans would dare ask for integrity in our election process. the question is when do we stop
pointing functions an cargo out our duty to ensure our constituents can trust our elections? it starts with taking steps that all votes are legal and cast by eligible voters. building trust is not start by harassing a private company doing a job that it was contracted to do. it violates 10th amendment and rule of law with the feds know best attitude. the federal government doesn't and shouldn't have a say over how the state of arizona carries out its election nor should it actively work to prohibit arizona or any state from carrying out a forensic audit to verify the integrity of its election laws appear restore public trust at the polling booth. we need less federal involvement in our elections, not more. the american people and specifically those from arizona deserve to be able to cast votes with confidence and trust in an
electoral process an outcome irrespective of which candidate or party wins. every legal vote must be counted and those illegal must be set aside. we cannot allow think voter's legal vote to be canceled by an illegal vote. i find in important to resumed my friends on both sides of the aisle and our witnesses of the fact we can take $100 in one that are bills and count it as many as we want and it will remain the same. but if many are counterfeit you may have 100 pieces of participate but you don't have 100 dollars in legal tender. that is the real issue. not just the count. it is counting legal votes. illegal appear counterfeit votes must be tossed out that. is a common sense rule that must be followed in arizona, georgia and all other elections. my home state has worked to function those problems such as
signature discrepancies, off our ballot counting and unsecure boxes so voters can trust the process. i will do everything in my power to ensure washington keeps its hands off georgia's election laws and our 10th amendment rights are not seized by the federal government. i yield the remainder of my team to mr. biggs so he can keep the government out of the laws of arizona. >> this for vice chairman gates and chairman sellers. i'm trying to understand because we have some of thematic thing i'm trying to understand how the auditors, whether they are the auditors you hired or those that work for the state senate how were they able to do new type of validation of the 2020 republicans if the data base was
cleared before they got started? >> that is something that i would prefer if we can provide a follow-up answer to you on that. but this was all available and i believe there may have been a public records request. i'm not sure if there was on that. but -- >> you cleared the servers and you backed them up to the archive you said. just to containing slightly, auditors hired by y'all to do the audit there were not f.t.c. certified forensic auditors. they were -- >> they are certified to operate on these machines. they are from voting system laboratories. >> but they are not certified auditors because they don't
certify forensic auditors for election. >> they understand how election machines work. >> i will ask you a yes or no question because you and i can bounce around. the f.t.c. does not certify full forensic auditors at all. >> i believe that -- it is the e.a.c. that certifies them. >> they don't certify full forensic auditors. >> that term that full forensic auditor i'm not familiar -- >> they don't do forensic audits. what they certify deals with the machines themselves and tabulators appear whether they can operate on the machines, right? >> time has expiredment without objection mr. stanton is authorized to participate in today's hearing. mr. stanton, you are now recognized. >> madam chair, thank you for
allowing me to participate. i'm disappointed that mr. logan declined to appear here today to address questions about how the cyber firm was selected to conduct a partisan audit. you suspect the reason he is not here is because he doesn't have good answers, that husband involvement is one the so-called audit was a fraud from the beginning. he has a history of spreading baseless conspiracy theories about the election and may be one rain he was chosen to advance the false narrative by mr. trump's how many followers in arizona. you would like to walk through some of that history. november 19, 2020 mr. logan tweeted dominion servers in german were grabbed by the good guys in germany. dominion is a company that makes election servers. mr. logan was apparently referring to the theory spread by convicted felon that the u.s.
military seized dominion servers in europe following the election. mr. becker were they seized by the u.s. military in germany or anywhere in europe after the election? >> there's zero evidence to support new part of that allegation including the idea they were dominion servers in germany at any time. >> for the record "u.s.a. today," associated press and reuters and rated it false. the u.s. army denied performing the rode and the company didn't have servers in germany unquote. the week before january 6 mr. logan prepared a document for the saufrpbgsed trump lawyer it help republic senators who wanted to object to the certification of the election. this document's central columbia downon's core software quote originates from intellectual property of smart mattuck a
company founded in commune urs venezuela with links to chavez. mr. becker, you are an expert in this field and stoudemired elections. are you aware of any evidence to suggest that the dominion core software originates with a company with tuesday of chavez? >> there's no connection between dominion or any other software vendor and hugo chavez or the nation of venezuela to 43 knowledge or nub's knowledge. >> i want to point out that even the trump campaign knew this conspiracy was baseless. according to an internal memo prepared for the campaign in mud november, 2020, trump campaign lawyers ceded that dominion has no direct tie to venezuela. this summer while the fraudulent audits taking place mr. logan starred in a film called the deep rig which sought to prove
the 2021 presidential election was rigged against donald trump. in the film he states without any supporting evidence that the c.i.a. or former members of the intelligent agency may be spreading disinformation around election fraud. mr. becker, is there any evidence supporting the theory c.i.a. officers spread disinformation about election fraud? >> there's zero evidence of that. >> these conspiracy theories are complete will you groundless yet mr. logan has publicly espoused them. is this the trump loyalist that the stat believed of the evaluate person for the job it is clear their goal was not to conduct an honest audit. if mr. logan were here today we would ask him whether he still believes these spurs theories. we would also ask how he could conduct a fair and impartial audit when he is already made up husband mind on the basis of
debunked internet conspiracy theories. we can't ask these kwaes because mr. logan declined this committee's invitation to defend husband work. i yield back. >> thank you. before we close i want to offer mr. diggs an opportunity to offer new closing remarks. you are now recognized. >> thank you, madam chair. i have to know how long you are going to give me. my flight doesn't leave for a couple hours. thanks, i appreciate it. i agree with so much of what colleagues on my side have been saying that this is an unnecessary encroachment into arizona's travails if i can put it that way over the audit and
our election system. the constitution leaves that to us. if there was some kind of something that was materially violative of civil rights maybe that would warrant this. i will go through a few things that i think are so important. not the least of which is the fact that in september of this year -- excuse me, last year -- before election took place, polling data showed that only 22% of americans thought that the presidential looks in 2021 would be free and fair. that was consistent with polling in 2012, 2008, 2004 and the last
time my democratic colleagues believed they legitimately lost an election was 1988. that is what the polling indicated. what we've heard called the big lay over and over today -- big lie over and over by our friends from the left and the democrats is something that they set the gold standard for in 2016. for the last four years. the question of the audit, as you mentioned early on, feels bizarre to me because it -- my colleagues across the aisle want it both ways. they repeated will you as one of them said it is shameful that we
have this audit. they kept going on and on. the last gentleman just ripped doug logan. i don't know mr. logan. i don't know his history. they ripped the dark money. the funding sources they had problems with. they ripped everything they could about the audit and at the same time they were attacking the audit they argued that it but the rested their position -- it butt rested their position. i few that as specious, inconsistent, fallacious. i was asked who won in arizona. i don't know. because there were statutory issues with this election.
no election is ever perfect. but in my mind we have not resolved the issues that took place at this time. i have more questions to ask. we don't have time to ask more questions. i'm going to go without asking them and maybe submit them in writing. there's so much underlying this and this notion that this was a fraudulent effort to get at the root of this election, i think, is -- we should have welcomed an audit. you regrettably have to say that in my view watching from outside it looked like the board was obfuscating and trying to prevent an audit. my recommendation early on was do a full and complete audit.
resolve this. that is what i said in november. resolve that issue. put this thing to bed. here we sit almost a full year later and people still have questions about election integrity. i don't know how we are going to resolve that. but you do know that this continued an tag nfl toward this audit while saying it proves what we said but it stinks, that is laud crust. you will -- that is ludicrous. i would hope that we can have meaningful audits. the audit that was conducted statutorily by maricopa county was a statutory audit. but that really wasn't an audit. nobody would say that is a full and complete audit. none of us would say that.
it just isn't. it is meant to provide some kind of statistical reference point. as mr. bennett, former secretary of state of arizona pointed out, it is simply not even with a rain come sample. i have people who worked in polling locations who say they were concernedment you had people who worked on those boxes who said they were concerned. i think there's legitimate concern. i'm not sure the audit revealed those. but i can tell you what. both sides are further entrenched today than they were six, eight, 10 months ago in arizona. that is a shame. you don't know how we will resolve that. i will yield one minute. >> i would like to just ask
unanimous consent to submit several and others raising concerns about myself and my constituents. and several articles for the record. >> without objection. >> last thing i would ask is hit home mr. bates made a valid point. code 52 u.s. 271 passed by a democratic majority over 50 years ago and supports audits. it encourages audits. there's plenty of unanswered questions here. i talked about it earlier. the way you keep trust with american people is be transparent. that is all that is says. you look at my testimony on january 6 i asked for a 10-day moratorium to allow any state to
have 10 days to look at an audit. please take the time to watch. it is hardly a conservative group that points it out. this is not a republican or democratic issue. this is an american issue. when you cast my ballot for whoever is running, it goes there appropriately and electronics doesn't skew that. from that standpoint i would love the conversation back and forth but i don't think people are bad like you intended. ledge laws was introduced because of electronic manipulationment it goes both ways whether 2016, 2018, 2020 there's plenty to go around so why not get it right and be transparent. that is how you gaun trust with
the american people. trust is transparency. thank you for the indulgence. you yield back. >> i have some articles. >> i will recognize for purposes of putting articles in the recordment jurisdiction one is from february 26, 2021 "arizona republic." another from representative dated february 2021 washington examiner. one from glenn greenwa learn d. one from mad $to trae tkpwoud i couldn't. another from representative jerry connolly dated january 29, 2018. and last one from the "baltimore sun" dated january 5, 2017 entitled jamie raskin not seeing challenge for trump.
>> without objection. we have been told mr. keller has logged on and he is recognized for five minutes. mr. keller. >> thank you, madam chair and thank you to all our witnesses for taking time to testify before the committee today. before addressing the subject you would like to urge the majority to use its oversight power to focus on the numerous crises be in rampant unnation, the crisis on the southern border, the irresponsible way the biden administration pulled out afghanistan. skyrocketing energy prices or staggering national debt to numb a few. the price of natural gas alone is at a 10-year high. this must be addressed before winter set in and americans have to make difficult financial decisions just to heat their
homes. the integrity of our elections is directly linked to the integrity of our democratic system of government at the local, state or ted levels. while proper looks protocol is essential, the matter of arizona looks audit is fundamentally a state issue. it is the second time in a week that this committee has raised issues firmly in a state's jurisdiction into the federal you a reason. rather than attacking a private company for fulfilling its contract and conducting an election audit this committee should be directing any objections about the audit to its originators, the arizona state senate. one thing that all voters regardlesser party affiliation can agree upon is we must have election integrity. that is the only way to ensure trust in our elections and they
have been righteously elected and confident in our government. i would encourage the majority party to talk a look at the issues that lay squarely within the jurisdiction of the oversight and reform. there's plenty of federal agencies that need oversight and reform. we should be focused on those and the state where they have issues should focus on making sure that they address those issues. we certainly are not going to call in the arizona department of revenue and investigate how they handle their state income tax collectionsment we should deal with the federal level. but we should go to the states and follow the constitution and have them kraes those issues. with that, i yield back the
balance of my time. >> i will take your time. >> i yield to mr. bates. >> thank you. i have a couple of questions that i didn't think i was going to be able to ask. i was looking at your website just the facts.vote that said it count does not containing the looks management system that is false that the count doesn't do that. i assume what you are asserting is that you regularly change the pathologist words for your e.m.s. server. >> i'm not sure what you mean by regularly but it is something that is changed. >> would you then be surprised, i guess, that the records from cipher indicate that all accounts had the same password and user name was the same and has not been changed since the
e.m.s. server was set up? >> again, i don't have that in front of me. i'm not sure the basis of that. >> if that were true that would be concerning about cybersecurity, would it not? >> no, it would not be concerning because the e.m.s. is not contacted to -- as you relate to cybersecurity it is not connected to the internet in new way. it is an you are a gap system. we did two audits that confirmed that these machines were used in the 2021 general election were never connected to the internet. >> that is your assertion. >> that is. based upon certified folks that took a look at that. >> how is the -- let's talk about paper. the secure paper doesn't have a special coding to prevent bleed throughment are you sawing only vote secure paper was used in the 2020 general election? >> yes, vote secure paper but it
is a fact that you can have bleed throughs and that is why we made sure we redesigned the ballots so that if there was a race on one side that piece of paper it wouldn't show up as a vote on the election on the other side. >> i hope to ask mr. bennett about that. >> i'm now told mr. factual lop has log -- fallon has logged in. do you bush to ask questions? >> yes, thank you. >> you are recognized. >> i agree that we have hearings in this committee on a crisis not really a crisis but the strove catastrophe -- catastrophe but you would like to yield the balance my time from arizona. >> thank you, mr. fallon. mr. bennett, let's talk about the paper. you heard the testimony from
vice chairman gates. can you respond to us about the paper and that you found in the audit, that the auditors found. >> what i was informed of is that there appeared to be 10 different sources or types of paper used for the ballots. i personally witnessed the fact that on some ballots there was a fair amount of bleed through from one sued to the other. but as mr. gates mentioned, one of the things that you are supposed to do in setting up your election in arizona is align the ballots so that if there is bleed through from front to back or vice versa no corresponding ovals are affected and it is my understanding that on though we found bleed through we did not found that overlapping an oval on the other
side. so to your knowledge there was no encroachment from one sued to the other. >> that is my understanding. >> can you add on to the, whether there was any issues with regard to password and user names? >> i can repeat the testimony of mr. ben cotton the c.e.o. of s.u.v. the company that looked at the equipment who said that their evidence showed that the county used common user names and passwords and that you think there was more than one, but as required by state law and election procedures manuals in arizona, they did not use unique user names and passwords so that if there was a question related to who did what in the looks management system, not a
cybersecurity issue as mr. gates mentioned but the purpose for unique user names and passwords is if you have things happen in an looks you can tell who did it and he said the use of common user names and password make that impossible to detect. >> so you wouldn't know necessarily who was logging in because they are not discrete. >> correct. >> explain the looks proper manual and its run vis-a-vis statute. >> the election procedures manual is specifically authorized in state law. it is under the direction of the secretary of state as office which i occupied for six years. i did three of them during my six years. it is adopted in the offelection years and has to have the consent of the attorney general and governor to sign off on the looks procedures manual. it has the fact of law as
dictated in the state statute. >> so if there's an issue with compliance that is a statutory violation because -- >> yes, sir. >> so, my understanding is that the senate president attempted to reach out and work with the county, but that for whatever reason an impasse was reached and the subpoenas were issued and the ultimate issue is compliance and whether there was intent on the part -- contempt on the board in responding to the subpoenas. >> as i mentioned earlier, i had met personally with the senate
president numerous times, telling her that if there were serious issues or questions that needed to be answered i wanted to help get those answers. and -- i will back up a little bit because the two additional audits we did after the election was over were done to answer questions that had been gump to us by the arizona senate. >> i thank the gentlelady. >> i now recognize myself. people are coming in and logging in at the end here. our good friend committee member jackie spear is now recognized for five minutes. for questions. >> thank you, madam chair. i have been on and in the middle
of an intelligence committee hearing but you wanted to get back on since there are still questions that need to be answered. let me ask you, mr. bennett, you have been a public servant. do you condemn political violence in this country including attacks on elected officials and elected representatives? >> of course. i have death threats myself. >> so you know chairman sellers and supervisor gates and their staff have received threats against their safety. the district of columbia experienced political violence on numerous occasions in the weeks following the looks. i was one member in the house gallery lying on the floor when the shots rapping out thinking that i was going to die that day. making sure that we quell violence is critical. with that in mind it is very important that we identify those organizations that have sought to further inflame tensions.
one of those groups is look ahead america. on september 24 this group held a rally in arizona in which nearly half were proud boys which is an organization identified as a far right neofascist group. have youer heard of look ahead america? >> yes, ma'am. >> you know that they have been associated with violent hard right activities for a long time. >> i'm not aware of that, ma'am. >> the group tweeted it would participate in a conference hosted but nick fuentes a well-known neo-nazi. you are currently listed on look ahead america's leadership unquote page as it is, as its state chairman. you are the fifth highest ranking individual on this organization. i am astonished that you would be associated with a group let
alone take a leadership role. you serve as senate liaison for maricopa county 2020 election audit. mr. bennett, you said a few weeks ago that you are on a quote leave of absence from this organization to focus on election review. is this true. >> yes, i was working on a voter registration project in arizona none as a.g.51. it contacted with look ahead america who wanted to help that process in arizona and a.g.51 decided to trance suggestion the voter registration project over to look ahead arizona which was formed by look ahead america. so i'm with look ahead arizona which is an affiliate of look ahead america. but i have been on leave of absence as i have been contributing my time to the audit without pay.
>> you have been trying to establish some independence, is that correct? >> independence from home? >> from the organization, since you are on a leave of absence. >> i was already involved in the audit. when the a.g.51 voter registrationed to look ahead arizona. i'm not trying to establish independence. i already was involved in the audit when that trance suggestion occurred. >> but in september, september 7 an "arizona republic" article you said you still consult with matt on you know who does he need to talk to around the state and efforts of look ahead arizona and report is registration. matt i believe is the executive director of look ahead america. it seems difficult that you could claim that you are on a leave of absence from the group but are still consulting with it
and recommending who the group's executive director should be phaoepbgt with. -- meeting with. i really am concerned that as an elected official and you admitted will you saw you have had death threats to all of us and arizona county supervisors who have experienced death threats why an engagement with groups like the proud boys who were part of this effort in arizona prior to the election would somehow not be recognized by you as antithetical to quelling violence and in effect encouraging it. with that, madam chair, you will yield back. jurisdiction the gentlelady yields back and i believe that concludes all of the members that want to ask questions. you will now proceed with my
closing remarks. you want to thank all the witness for helping our committee understand the facts about the so-called audit in arizona and all of my colleagues who participated. in particular thank you to mr. sellers and to mr. gates and to the other elected officials who endured months of abuse, insults and threats for simply doing your job. thank you for having the courage to speak the truth today and to testify before the committee. the committee has also wanted to hear from cyber but doug logan refused to appear today to testify under oath. that is probably because the facts about his audit is so damning. this audit was designed to found fraud but it didn't find any fraud. it was backed but millions of
dollars, $6.7 million from partisan dark mountain groups and it spent a year studying the election. but in the end cyber ninjas came up with nothing. no fraud, no missing votes for trump, no change in the election outcome. so, now even after this huge audit some of my colleagues are refusing to accept even their own biased audit claiming there is still uncertainty about the election in arizona. donald trump is even claiming the audit showed he won. a nonpartisan fact checker rated that as absolutely false and.gov him the designation of pants on fire and i ask permission to put the statement in the article about it in the record.
so, let's be clear. donald trump did not win in arizona and he did not win the election. he lost. and in the cyber ninja audit he lost. but unless trump and his admirers are willing to admit this truth and respect the will of the american voters our democrat succeed is at serious risk as mr. sellers and mr. gates testified. the barrage of lies about the 2021 election has inflicted grave damage already. these lies are undermining public confidence in our elections and they are fostering efforts across the country to hold more partisan audits and pass antidepth laws to suppress votes and allow elected officials to overturn elections when their preferred kaudz lose. free and fair elections are the
foundation of our democracy whether you are a republican or a democrat. all of us should care about these threats to our elections. this committee will use every tool at its disposal to fight pack back against the lies and conspiracy theories that have been allowed to grow for too long in our country. i ask like minded americans both democrats and republicans to join us in this fight the we all have an obligation to stand up for the democratic values that we all hold so dear. with that, i want to thank our panelists for their remarks and commend my colleagues for their partial. without option all members have five legislative days within which to submit materials and submit additional written questions for the witnesses to the chair which will be forwarded to the witnesses for their response. i ask our witnesses to please
the alliance for securing democracy discusses the pandora papers and federal legislative response. then the managing editor of the university of virginia cristobal, kyle kondik, talks about u.s. political portal is a -- polarization. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning. it is friday, october 8. today, the labor department is set to release its september jobs report, and president biden is said to offer his remarks this morning on washington journal, here's to you, the top news story of the week. give us a call, the phone lines a split as usual by political party, republicans (202) 748-8000.