tv Washington Journal 07272021 CSPAN July 27, 2021 7:00am-10:01am EDT
and to washington post reporters on their new book. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: this morning on capitol hill, the january 6 select committee convenes today for its first hearing. seven democrats and two republicans will hear from police who responded to the attack on january 6. we will begin this morning with your thoughts on this select committee created by speaker pelosi. if you are adamic at, dial in at (202) 748-8000. if you are a -- democrat, dial in at (202) 748-8000. if you are a republican, (202) 748-8001.
independents, (202) 748-8002. you can also text us your thoughts, first name city and state, at (202) 748-8003. join the conversation on facebook.com/c-span, or twitter and instagram with handle @cspanwj. your thoughts in just a minute, but let's begin with the speaker of the house who on sunday on abc responded to the question about why the select committee was created. [video clip] >> we have had an unprecedented assault against the government, assault on the capitol building, an assault on the congress on a day that the constitution requires us, by the constitution, to validate the work of the electoral college. so, this is not just any day of the week.
this was a constitutionally required day of action for congress. the republicans will say what they can say. it's our patriotic duty to pursue this and we do not come in -- maybe the republicans cannot handle the truth, but we have a responsibility to seek it to find it in a way. host: the decision by kevin mccarthy was not to have any republicans on the committee after the speaker rejected two of his appointees. jim banks and jim jordan of ohio. the speaker did a .2 republicans herself to the committee. that is representative liz cheney, republican of wyoming who just six months ago was in
charge of republican messaging, number three republican removed from that spot by her colleague after she voted to impeach former president trump over the january 6 attack. over the weekend of the speaker also we could adam kinzinger. the chair of the select committee is benny thompson, democrat of mississippi and the chair of the house. adam schiff, chair of the intelligence committee. zoe lofgren, the chair of the house administration who has oversight over the capitol grounds. you can also see the other democrats on your screen as well , congressman aguilar, congresswoman stephanie murphy, and congresswoman luria of virginia. there committee begins their work at 10 a.m. eastern time on
c-span3 this morning. president trump, the former president, issued a statement last night saying this about the select committee "nancy pelosi is spending a great deal of time, effort, and money on the formulation of a fake committee to ask what happened. will nancy investigate herself and those host: what are your thoughts on this select committee? they begin today, the chair of the committee, bennie thompson, has said they could call former president trump to testify as well. that from an interview that he gave yesterday. and that nothing is off-limits for the committee.
again, 9:30 a.m. eastern time, i misspoke, that's when the coverage begins. they are expected to gavel shortly after that. c-span3 is where you can watch the hearing today. or you can download the free c-span radio app and listen there as well. timothy in new york, republican line. we will go to you first. what are your thoughts on the select committee. caller: i think the select miti is crazy. what did they expect from the, from the riots and stuff like that that they had in the years before? did they expect the same thing? or different?
that's my question. host: ok. timothy, if you were on the select committee, what would you ask? caller: what would i ask? why didn't they, the, the lady in charge of the house call security before this? she knew that this was going to happen. she knew. host: who are you referring to when you say she, the speaker? caller: yes, the speaker. host: ok. democratic line, silver spring. you are next. caller: i just want to say that i'm really looking forward to this. i know the republicans tried everything they could to not have a bipartisan committee to find out what happened and unfortunately they won't be able
to do it that way they wanted, to obfuscate, sorry to say, but i'm happy that liz cheney is there and i'm sorry, i forgot the name of the other republican that is there. they seem like reasonable, intelligent people. host: congressman can zinger. caller: yes, -- congressman kinsinger. caller: yes. and i think liz cheney will be able to stop showboating and i don't republicans have to worry about that. what they need to worry about is that most of the republicans in congress don't want to know the truth. i want to hear from the police officers who were attacked, i want to know what happened to them and what happened to the law and order republicans who were watching this on television? host: interestingly, congresswoman cheney is going to play the role of the ranking member, which in washington means that she is the top
lawmaker from the other side. democrats control the house in the chair is bennie thompson. she's not officially the ranking member of the committee, but democrats are going to let her give an opening statement after the chair gives his opening statement. what do you you -- what do you think about that? caller: i'm not afraid of what she has to say. i do not agree with her and i never agreed with her father, but she's a patriot who believes in the constitution and i like the way she handles her self onto the press and i believe she is a woman of integrity and i want to hear what she has say. host: ok. danny is a republican from arizona. good morning to you, danny. go ahead. caller: how are you? host: doing well. your thoughts this morning? caller: yes, ma'am, the
so-called select committee is a sham, for one thing. and i want to know if it will come out, who was the person that killed that young lady at the capitol that day. thank you. host: ok, shelley, louisiana, republican line. caller: good morning. the way i feel about this is they have two republicans on their committee and both have been overtly against trump, openly, said very poor things about him. so, it's not surprising they let those two republicans on but that they wouldn't accept the choice of the republican leader, mccarthy. to think that it's anything other than something that would lead dishonest and used for political purposes is just to be fooled. you are having the wool pulled
over your eyes if you believe that. host: kevin mccarthy is giving a news conference this morning at 8 a.m., at the top of the hour. we will have coverage of that on c-span two and he will have with him the republican members that he wanted to serve on this committee. wanted to let you and others who are interested know that. jim banks, who was one of those members, republican from indiana , one of two lawmakers rejected by the speaker, as we said, was asked about the speakers decision. he was on fox news sunday. here's what he had to say. [video clip] >> i know you had conversations with any thompson about the matters at hand and what would be discussed. what do you think blew up the commission last week? >> it's more clear than ever that nancy pelosi isn't interested in an investigation,
only by narrative. the reason she booted me from the committee, she claimed, was antics on the part of jim jordan and what she means by that now is that we were prepared to ask questions no one else has asked and demand answers as to why the capital was vulnerable to an attack on january 6. why was there a systemic breakdown of security. if we investigate january 6, why not ask those questions? that's all that this comes down to. she has already predetermined of narrative about donald trump and republicans, she doesn't want to talk about what happened at the capitol that day to make sure something like that never happens again. host: republican banks. mccarthy wanted him to serve on the select committee and the speaker barred him and jim jordan from doing so. your thoughts on the select committee as they get prepared this morning to hold their first hearing into what happened that day.
hot springs, arkansas, democratic caller. caller: how are you doing today? host: doing fine. caller: when they start calling witnesses, the first person i would like to see them call is pence, vice president pence. he could probably tell them more of what actually happened and more of what's going on behind the scenes than anybody else they could call. if they want to call trump, that's good, but he will lie to them and make up a bunch of phony stuff. i want to comment on one thing, that nancy pelosi knew this was going to happen. i didn't know she had a crystal ball. did you know that? host: "the washington post" editorial board has a list of questions they think committee should ask and they said at the top of the list is precisely what donald trump did before, during, and after the attacks.
how did he prepare the speech preceding the insurrection where he told the crowd to fight? what did he anticipate audience reaction to be? when did he know the pro-trump mob was threatening the capital? why did he offer only mild statements after the danger was clear? did they coordinate with extremist groups? answering such questions with calls for subpoenaing mark meadows. along with other white house aides. caller: they are going to get up there and make a lot of false statements to the committee. pence, supposed to be a good christian man that won't lie? get him up there to see what he has to say about the whole thing, that's what i'd like to see. host: robert, virginia, good
morning, what do you think? caller: i would like for them to call trump up there and find out what he knew and someone came on their a while ago and said nancy pelosi knew that this was coming . but all you have got to do is know your history. d.c. do not have control of the national guard. it would have to be the u.s. government, which trump was the head of, the armed services and he did not call those people and did not want them to be there until hours later. that's the reason we have this problem. anybody focused on the republican defense, you got to be crazy. host: jerry, good morning. caller: yes, ma'am. my name jerry.
once again, republicans are trying to change history. we saw what happened that day. they don't want us to know the truth. they say the truth will set you free. i guess they don't want us to be free. thank you so much. host: all right, jerry. this tweet, this is going to wind up very partisan, mostly all democrats, the report is already written. ray, colorado, independent, good morning to you. caller: how are you this morning? host: doing fine. what do you think about the committee, its goal, and who is serving on it? caller: i'm in favor of the committee and the goal, investigating what happened. what i want to further detail is
that all the people who say this is heavily favored for democrats, the text says one member shall be appointed by the minority leader of the house and senate in two shall be appointed by the minority leader of the house and two shall be appointed by the minority leader of the senate. had they put 60 or more votes into cloture in the senate and had this been passed and signed, than the republican leadership would have been able to select whomever they wanted on their side for the commission. can i propose a question that i would want ask? host: absolutely -- asked? host: sure, absolutely. caller: i keep hearing about john earl sullivan. other than him, can anyone name anyone else who has been awesome or is currently being charged with the january 6 the tax? who claim to be part of blm or
antifa? host: ok. ray is talking about the effort by republicans to form a bipartisan commission, taking this investigation out of congress and putting it with independent officials. now, as he said, that vote came to the floor. it was, the legislation for it was negotiated by bennie thompson, the democrat from mississippi who is serving as the chair of the january 6 select committee, along with the republican committee -- one republican from new york. it passed the house over the republican leaders opposition and was then blocked by senate republicans. let's hear from greg in mechanicsville, pennsylvania. good morning to you. caller: good morning. you have been gone for a while and, frank hopefully you don't revert to what you normally do,
which is support the people who hate donald trump, including nancy pelosi. this whole thing has been delayed by her until now because things aren't going well with hunter's dad in the white house and whatever kamala harris is doing today. the narrative has not been good. no doubt that nancy pelosi is smart. no doubt that she is ruthless. this is being done now and i think that the republicans were in a bind. this allows pelosi to say whatever. she knows exactly what's going to happen. every time. now there are banks, jordan, and the other three are not on the committee.
however be careful what you wish for, because this could blow up. there is no doubt that she had advanced notice. there is no doubt that more should have been done by her. no doubt, as the last caller indicated that there were other elements there. at this event on january 6. will we get to the bottom of it with pelosi's committee? no. will it be a start? yes. and i would like to see the house address the two senate committees who have met. donald j. trump was exactly what the united states needed. he's a polarizing figure. we are in trouble. we need someone who will stand up and say give me all the grief you want to give me, this is what we should do, then do it.
that's donald j. trump and i hope he gets reelected in 2024. he will get my vote again. if aoc isn't -- if aoc and all her squad is out there listening, these put me on the enemies list. i've only contacted them 12 times. greg knight, mechanicsburg, pennsylvania. put me on the enemies list. host: all right, greg, republican there in pennsylvania. this select committee will gaveled in around 9 a.m. eastern time and you can watch the coverage on c-span3, the website c-span.org, or download the c-span radio app, a great way to listen as you go about your day. if you miss any of today's hearing, you can go to our website after the hearing is over and you will be able to find a list of points of interest. when you hit the play button on
the video player, a series of stars will show up and that will allow quickly move through this hearing, which is slated to go about 2.5 hours today. if you miss it, had to our website, c-span.org, you can watch it that way. who will be testifying today? terry done and -- it includes capitol police officers. from the metropolitan police department we will hear from more officers. in may, this is what one of the officers had to say about the attack and about testifying later this morning. this is what he had to say about the need for an investigation. [video clip] >> as a police officer i'm here to support the sick nick family
-- brian sicknick's family and the capitol police. as someone who responded to january 6, i'm here to educate about my experiences that day. as an american i'm here to advocate for a commission. because i want to see congress come together in a bipartisan fashion and really get to the bottom of the january 6. it's necessary for us to heal as a nation from the trauma that we all experienced that day. that's why i think it's so important. host: you will hear from him today on capitol hill when he sits down before the january 6 select committee. your first hearing, we have thoughts on their -- the first hearing, we have your thoughts on that today. laverne, you are next. caller: it's so foolish that we
are having all this rigmarole about what happened. we saw what happened. we have people who sat in congress and were scared to death, denied that any of this happened. we are not going to have the clown show that was benghazi. but we need to know is who, what, when, where, and how. seems the country has reverse alzheimer's. we only know what we see today, not what happened in the past. the republicans had the opportunity, the opportunity to be fully engaged in the whole process. but mccarthy and mcconnell knew better. so now this is what we are going to get. i just hope that we can come out of this a lot sooner than we did the collective depression and demoralization that was 9/11, it took a long time for the country to resolve itself from that.
i just hope that we will be able to come out better and see what happened. and see the real truth. we need the real truth. the world looks at us for the truth, for democracy, for what's right. but now we are a laughingstock. thank you. host: here is a text from r price inlet -- in louisiana. "how can you look at this and call it peaceful and loving? they can't be trusted with security of a superpower." jim, what do you say? caller: well, i think that it should have been an independent commission. i guess they tried to do that but do it? i think the attorney general should be more involved. these are crimes.
also, something that nobody ever talks about, general flynn before this happened said that trump could use his power to do a coup. then his brother was in the white house that day, general flynn's brother. i don't know much about his brother, but why would -- what did the military do? nothing. we need to look at that. an attack on the capital is an attack on the nation. we had people in the white house who knew that this stuff was planned and by putting the cops out there, i wouldn't go with that. those generals, the people that was behind the closed doors up there, i would go to them to find out what happened. it wasn't because the capitol police wasn't ready.
they wasn't trained to do that. so, i don't understand why they didn't have a backup plan. like i said, general flynn, look at the stuff he's saying now. this is a general in the military and he has said that we should have a coup. that he's going to shoot somebody in the white house. his brother is in the white house during this time. host: go ahead, finish that thought. caller: i think it's behind something. yes. host: you are referencing a new book out by carol leonnig, "i alone can fix it." we will be talking to them at 9 a.m. eastern and jim is referring to one of the headlines from their book.
an attempted coup after an election loss. they are sitting at the table with us later on in washington journal we will talk to them. donna, republican, hello. caller: i have not heard one word about the police and the guards. that didn't seem to be the appropriate amount on that day. i'd like to see how many were republicans. did they take a day off, it hasn't been mentioned in any area of conversation or literature that i have read. i think it is a key point.
seeing how they are in the hearing today, to compile that information. that i think would be helpful to everybody in general. host: the officers you refer to responded to the attack and came face-to-face and suffered injuries from the people that came to the capital that day. that is who you will hear from today. the chair of the select committee, bennie thompson of mississippi is the only democrat that delegation from that state and is writing a piece today in "the washington post where the headline is that they have started to investigate the attack on the capital and that nothing will be off-limits. he gave interviews yesterday,
saying that that could include calling former president donald trump to testify. wanda, worthington, pennsylvania. republican. high, wanda. -- hi, wanda. caller: i have comments about that. they have already had investigating going on. i don't understand why that wasn't a probe to get. i don't understand why it is so, i can't say it is impartial. we have more democrats than we do republicans, apparently, on this committee. and when they keep saying why did we have this, why did this happen, this didn't happen because of donald trump. this happened because of all of our elected officials that won't listen to the regular people. they are bought, they are paid for, and they don't seem to care anymore what happens to the
people out here. this is part of what happened that day. a lot us are just tired of what we see going on in our government. it's no longer their government. i don't think it is equal government. it's just whoever has the most power in winning these things. today when it happened it's amazing that it happened just at the same time as the testimony was going to be about election fraud. that's when it happened. that's the suspicion over what you see. we shouldn't listen to them, they are going to make money off it whether it is true or not. we don't know if it's true or not. i think that these commissions should look into this, but i don't think that we should have our russia russia thing. actually, my vote was changed when i went to vote, i was upset about that. it happened.
i think that pelosi and everybody else should look in the mirror and ask themselves about what happened that day. it is them, not us. nothing crazy, not the ones who were bought and paid for. it is our government themselves and it will happen again if they don't start to listen to the people. that's all i have to say. host: you and others might be interested in kevin mccarthy's efforts to force a vote yesterday on the floor to criticize the speaker to bar the republicans from criticizing on the panel -- serving on the panel and criticizing her. that was voted down on partyline votes, but liz cheney and adam kinzinger, appointed by the speaker to serve on the select committee voted with democrats
on that forced vote. that's go to darlene. hyde park, new york. good morning. you are an independent. what are your thoughts? guest: -- caller: good morning, how are you? host: good. caller: my thoughts are that during the pep rally, trump has been gathering the masses. since day one that he was on the stage, he loves to be the main attraction. he gathered his people. he sick to them -- sicked them, when he couldn't get people to do what they wanted, he got his crew together, they stormed the capital. it is all there, domed. everybody needs to bring light into the darkness of what happened. why don't everybody want the
facts to be coming out? the truth will set usa free. host: all right, darlene. hyde park. we have learned that mike and see of wyoming died yesterday following a bike accident on friday. it says in the casper star tribune that the former senator, a mayor in 1975, after former senator simpson convinced him to seek the post after they bumped into each other in a city when he served as mayor. emzi went on to serve in the u.s. senate in 1997 following simpson's retirement, where he represented wyoming until his retirement at the end of 2020. also this morning, "the wall street journal" reporting that
the bipartisan infrastructure talks, you have got a group of 10 senators, a bipartisan group, negotiating and have been doing so for five weeks to try to put on the floor a bipartisan infrastructure proposal with a price tag around $1 trillion. take a look at the headline from "the wall street journal" where they "met again late last night, chuck schumer of new york was hoping to have a bill on the floor yesterday and begin proceedings on it. it hasn't happened yet, negotiations. jane, brooklyn, new york, democratic caller. caller: this is tough. congress has to do this. our constitution demands we find
out what happened in this insurrection. this is our democracy. never forget january 6 and i hope we get to the bottom of this for the american people. it is bipartisan at this point and also, let's be patriots today and listen to what they had to say. trump definitely had his hands here and i want to say that i feel awful about officer sicknick. we cannot continue to listen to the lies that trump didn't have anything to do with it. he did band of these people together, they did storm the capital and hurt a lot of people. i just want to say that i'm looking forward to this committee, these meetings, and i hope we get to the bottom of this. host: jane referring to the capitol police officer who lost his life after the capital sixth attack.
here's his girlfriend from may. [video clip] >> are you frustrated by republicans who are still opposed to and unwilling to support the creation of a commission? >> yes, i am. it's very disturbing that anyone would not want to support this. why would they not want to get to the bottom of such horrific violence? they are here today and with their families, comfortable, because of the actions of law enforcement that day. i don't understand why they would resist getting to the bottom of what happened that day , totally understanding what happened. >> have republicans refused to meet with you? >> no, i have met with some republicans today, they have been good about meeting and having conversations. and with the other officers as well.
host: today the select committee will hold their first hearing and will be hearing from fallen capitol police officer brian sicknick and his colleagues who responded to the attack that day. around 9:30 a.m. eastern time is when coverage begins. tune into c-span3, go to our website c-span.org, or download the free c-span radio app. we are getting your thoughts on the committee this morning. what you think of the makeup of the committee? two of the republicans appointed by the speaker. the republicans, led by kevin mccarthy, are not participating after speaker pelosi barred two of his choices from serving on the panel. benjamin in denver sends us this text, god bless liz cheney, one of the two republicans appointed by the speaker. mccarthy should hold his tongue
and follow her lead, perpetuating a lie is never good . yesterday kevin mccarthy spoke to reporters on the floor before an event began in the rose garden on the disabilities act and referred to adam kinzinger and liz cheney as polarizing republicans. leonard, good morning to you. caller: good morning, everyone. i don't understand why this investigation didn't start january 7. this is ridiculous. give turns to the children and whatever. a few years ago when trump ran for president, i found out that my neighbors were racist, they hate change, they hate order. why do you think republicans want a small government? the wealthy people support trump. what else does trump have that these politicians want? he
doesn't have honesty or integrity. and he represents a dictator without a place. thank you, have a good morning. host: charlie, houston, texas, you are next. caller: i am a strong trump supporter and i am going to say that there is no true trump supporter at that riot, whatever you want to call it, on january 6 that would have compromised being heard, compromised those senators being heard on the fraud. there was other people there that broke into the capital. the other people were pulled in by the wave of people there. host: where is your proof of that, that it was other groups? caller: there are other groups. trust me, there is no way a trump supporter would have compromised these senators being
heard about the fraud that took place during the election. there is no way. host: have you been following the court proceedings of the people who have been arrested? caller: i have been following what they show, yes, been following that. the 535 people who have been held and accused of things, a lot of people were swept up. a lot of the pictures that you see, people walking around like they were tourist. let's get real. the people that day that benefit from this are the damn democrats. they are the ones, far as i'm concerned, they are the ones that wrote into the capital. it's written ticketless. host: -- it's ridiculous. host: all right, this text -- pelosi condoned the riots of
2020 by saying people do what they do, so what did she expect? al, new hampshire. what do you think? al, good morning. one last call for al, independent line. all right -- caller: [indiscernible] [inaudible] [indiscernible] host: that connection is not good. maybe you can call back. herbert, democratic caller. caller: this is a simple matter. why were no troops called? and when mccarthy asked the president to do that, and it's true, i guess they didn't like what's happening. he had a duty as the president of the united states to protect us and instead he never helped to order the troops. mccarthy is trying very hard to opt escape.
how can anyone look at what happened and say that these were tourists or that they had the right to be there. they did not have a right to desecrate the capital. that's what i have to say area host: we are going to hear from the republican leader in about 20 minutes, on c-span two he will be holding a news conference with the republican lawmakers that he wanted to put on this committee. jim jordan, republican of ohio, tim banks, dash in jim banks of ohio, -- jim jordan and jim banks, rejected. fearing they wouldn't take the investigation seriously. anthony, virginia beach, independent. go ahead. caller: good morning, good morning. i think it's rather strange that what we have is nancy pelosi in charge of capitol hill.
like she kept the national guard there all those months. she would be aware that there was a problem if there was a problem. i find it also strange that what you have is these guys, supposedly wanted to overthrow the government, walking in and taking pictures of what they were doing? that's just crazy. to me this is just another plot of the democrats to make the republicans do bad. what you need are some strong republicans to speak up and i truly wish that jordan was on that committee, but i guess nancy pelosi, queen of hell, if you ask me, it's just going to have her way and all of this. i hope we get to the bottom of all of this, but i don't see it, not with her in charge. host: ok, anthony. kathy, republican line, massachusetts. caller: thank you for taking my
call. i just had a thought. all of this happened, but i'm saying to myself, what would have happened, if these people were our own countrymen that stormed the capital, what would have happened if they were a group from another country. how could our b c -- b so vulnerable? maybe all of this will help our country have a firm, how do i say it, like a connection to security. because apparently anyone could do this and it was our own countrymen. so apparently they were very disappointed in something. very disappointed. host: ok. all right, the democrats serving on the january 6 committee
include congressman thompson, 73 years old, the only democrat from the state of mississippi, he will be chairing it. adam schiff, the chair of the intelligence committee in the house, democrat of california. so lofgren, also from california, she is the chair of the house administration committee with oversight of the capitol hill grounds. pete aguilar, house administration appropriations committee member. stephanie murphy, member of the armed services commission. raskin, maryland, of the judiciary committee. and lorraine lurie and -- luria. they will take their seats around 9:30 a.m. eastern time today for the first airing of the january 6 select committee. watch our coverage on c-span3, starting at 9:30 a.m. eastern
time, as well as our website, c-span.org. norman, fitzgerald, georgia, democratic caller. good morning, go ahead. caller: good morning. what i wanted to say is that i'm a veteran myself and i don't understand how some of the people that were in the insurrection were on-duty veterans. for retired veterans. policeman. we fought in vietnam to help the south against the north. i just don't get how they can come up and do that to our country. thank you.
host: all right, norman. thoughtful processes has this to say on twitter. kinsinger and jamie are as conservative and republican as many. i disagree with them on most issues of importance but i trust they will engage in a reasonable west for the truth. liz cheney, in charge of messaging for the republican party six months ago, number three leadership, she is no longer in that position after her colleagues removed her from that post. she is going to give the opening statement today, right after benny thompson, the chair, gives his. serving as you will, not officially as the ranking member , but she is giving an open statement like a ranking member would do in a hearing. so again, underway at 9:30 a.m. eastern time on c-span3.
don -- john, mckinney, texas, hello. caller: thank you for taking my call. first of all, the whole committee is an utter sham on many levels. it's intended for the propaganda machine of the democratic, meanest party and the left wing media. they are only interested in protests. and this was no insurrection. no one had any weapons. another fact that was on the air that's completely erroneous, sick nick was not killed or died as a result of anything a protester did on that day. he died of natural causes. that's another fabrication of c-span and the left-wing media to try to promote a narrative that is going to be used as justification to purge the entire officer corps of the american military of anyone that
disagrees with the left-wing communist dictatorship that really has now engulfed the capital of the united states. these people have a legitimate reason to be upset. there is plenty of evidence that before you even say anything about the courts ruling in favor of you know, president over the election fraud that was committed, the investigator, you are all interested in investigating this supposedly in, which is only propaganda, but no one is interested in investigating arizona, georgia, wisconsin, pennsylvania and a host of other places where there is significant evidence and you know what, let's have the ballots, let's see the ballots, see how the ballots were counted . that's why the people were upset. this was not an insurrection. sure, i'm against any kind of violence or anything like that,
but you know what? the hypocrisy here is that portland is burning, seattle is burning, washington is burning. every other major democratic run city is burning. they are not interested in prosecuting anyone there and our justice department has been infiltrated by these communist sympathizers who want to apply the law only against their political opponents. so, this thing is a sham and a disgrace. cheney and kinsinger would be in favor of this. i think anyone that participates will be sorry. because in the end of the people are going to rise up and not put up with this and they are, we are going to win at the ballot box and throw out these democratic communist and you know, anyone who gets all of their news from msnbc or cnn, they need to wake up and look at what's happening. they are shutting down any
protests whatsoever. any communication against their ideas. they are promoting a racial, you know, discussion about, you know, how there is white rage? i mean this is ridiculous. host: let me read from npr about what you said at the beginning of your comments. brian sicknick, capitol police officer who engaged with pro-trump writers died of natural causes one day after the attack according to the chief medical examiner, died after suffering a stroke. the officer chief medical examiner said in a report that he was 42 and was sprayed with a chemical substance outside the capitol at 2:20 p.m. and did not suffer an allergic reaction to the chemical euro tent dispensed by rioters and according to the examiner there was no evidence of internal or external injuries and at 10 p.m. he lapsed at the capital and was transported to a local hospital, dying nearly 24 hours later. officials say one day after he
sustained the injuries he died and the justice department opened a federal murder investigation into his death. we will go to joseph this morning from compton, california. hello, joseph. caller: good morning, america. following the individual who it's just speaking. it's amazing how these conservatives can complain about illegal act that have not happened and then use black lives matter to complain about legal acts that happened. first of all, republicans are responding because they know -- they know they lied to. if you walk out of your house and go to the election office, ask anybody in your own district about how elections work. first of all, everybody knows how elections work.
if two or more conspire to deliver illegal ballots, you become a conspiracy and i found out that most of the people caught up in this, they don't even believe that man walked on the moon. test it, they will call in here and tell you. most of these conservative people that follow trump, they have taken on this conspiracy mentality for all these conspiracies. so first of all, the church has not explained to these people about dealing with the truth. they have this problem where they understand that if the truth comes out, they participated. i would not participate in the investigation of a bank that i had a part in robbing. who would do that? that's why republicans are not participating. they know they let these people into the capital based on a lie
that donald trump, the president, lied about and continue to lie about and had people arrested. they ought to be ashamed to call themselves american. host: all right, we will hear from leader mccarthy in just a few minutes. over on c-span two we talking about the january 6 committee. representative psaki -- jen psaki yesterday talked about the select panel. [video clip] >> first of all, the president has called for, as you know, if investigation into the events of january 6 and continues to support the pelosi leadership on that point, including supporting republican members similarly committed to the objective. in his view and in our view it's an opportunity to hear first-hand from the men and women in the capitol police and metropolitan police department who bravely protect the capital on that day. his goal is the same goal that
speaker pelosi has, to get to the bottom of what happened and prevent it from happening in the future and he trusts her leadership to do exactly that. as you know, he has a packed schedule in he does catch news clips. some of you are sometimes featured in them and i'm sure he will be kept abreast of the hearing in the work that's happening on the hill tomorrow. host: jen psaki yesterday. anders, miami, independent. caller: yes, how are you doing? everyone is running in circles from one point to the next. that's part of the issue. especially the people on the right, once you start to pin down one topic to discuss it, suddenly the topic changes. it's a little bit weaselly out there. my concern is all the
name-calling. i myself have engaged in this in the past and threw it all i've realized i don't want to be involved in name-calling any longer. these arguments, once someone starts name-calling anything, i immediately discount their argument. most of what you hear from the right, more so from the left i have to say is 30 years of name-calling. i grew up listening to rush limbaugh, for example. i'm an independent, i say that so that i can say and think whatever i want and i'm not holding to any political party. what i have noticed with right-wing media specifically is full throated any pause, no engagement, just preaching from one side. with like no room. dead air, back to business,
right? no room for a pause, that's problematic. coming down to the sixth specifically, i listened to most of it on c-span, most of the coverage. to me it sounded like foley artists reenacting a medieval battle. it was metal clashing, screaming, battering, all kinds of things. the audio is absolutely horrific. it is not a quiet tour group listening to someone explain the history of another statute or document. it's a horror show if you listen to the audio from that day. it's un-american. last point, the confederate flag. it tells you everything you need to know. the confederacy lost the civil war and we think it is thanks in history even the 150 years is not a long time, which is a part
of why the scars and the wounds are still open. the confederacy needs to be addressed point-blank. anybody supporting the confederacy in any way, shape, or more, cannot possibly call themselves a patriot or hold any water in this country any longer. host: carol, republican line. caller: i'm disappointed in this whole committee deal thing. i would like to know what's going on, too, but i thought the committee would gather together to find out what really happened . [inaudible] host: i apologize, the connection is not good and it's difficult to hear you. ohio, democratic line.
caller: one of the trump justice people even admitted that former president trump called, but i wasn't able to get through to ask questions as to what the call was about. i swear he said it was something about on :00 in the afternoon. i think this is also going to help wanda, one of your republican callers, who said an investigation had already been done by whoever, you know, but i think that needs to be investigated. that man that you all had on on c-span was very nervous when he admitted that. so, we need to find out about the call from trump on january 6. that's all i had to say. thank you. you are doing great, greta.
host: all right, carol. when we come back we will talk to congressman french hill about today's hearing and how the biden administration's economic proposal and later we will talk with richard trumka and the union push for an infrastructure deal and new legislation to protect organizing in "right to work" states. we'll be right back. ♪ >> this morning ahead of the first hearing of the january 6 select committee, kevin mccarthy is holding a news conference. -- after speaking -- speaker pelosi barda two lawmakers from serving three watch live on c-span two, online on c-span.org and listen on the free c-span radio app. >> the house committee
investigating the january 6 attack on the u.s. capitol had its first hearing this morning. officers from the u.s. capitol police and washington metropolitan police department will tell members what they saw and experienced on that day. wash the hearing live at 9:30 on c-span three. online at c-span.org, or listen with the free radio app. ♪ >> weekend on c-span two are an intellectual feast. every saturday you find events and people exploring the nation's past on american history tv. on sunday, book tv has the latest in nonfiction books with television for syria's readers. learn, discover, explore, weekends on c-span two. >> washington journal continues. host: joining us is congressman
french hill, republican of arkansas serving on the financial services committee, also part of the congressional oversight commission looking into the covid-19 pandemic we always appreciate your time. thank you for being with us. let's start with the committee. the first hearing gets underway at 9:30. what questions do you have about that day? guest: it's nice to be with you today. i wish it was a fully bipartisan majority-minority committee on equal basis with equal subpoena power, he control of the staff. -- equal control of the staff. that would be much more appropriate. my question would first be how was the security parameter and plan so week on january 6? -- so week -- weak on january 6?
so why the senate and how sergeant of arms be so ill-prepared for the crowd that was going to come to the capitol? host: what would you want to hear from the capitol police officers and the metropolitan police officers that are going to testify? guest: i visited capitol police the night of january 6 realize saw them lay down, exhausted -- jerry six. i saw them late -- january 6, i saw them lay down exhausted. that's after back up was too late to protect the capitol. not only the people at the capital -- capitol, but the people doing the people's work. so what intelligence to the sergeant of arms have before
january 6? there's confusion and mixed messages, that there were concerns about radical groups that were going to take advantage of this rally. to try to do harm at the capitol. let's get the facts on that. let's find out who stopped help from coming earlier than when they arrived. host: speaker pelosi has named liz cheney and adam kinzinger to the panel, should they serve? >> that's the decision they have made -- guest: that's the decision that they have made. she vetoed kevin mccarthy's nominees. that's not how congress is set up. each side of the aisle winds there -- aisle appoints their members. here speaker pelosi, preempt elite blocking appointments by leader mccarthy. that's not in the tradition of
the house. i thought it was inappropriate. i think it weakens the bread ability of the task force. -- weakens the credibility of the task force. host: your leader calls them pelosi republicans, do you agree? guest: i think they are elected members of congress and the republican party, they were elected by the p all of the states and serve at the pleasure of those people. both are good people and they have a difference in opinion on what happened on january 6 and what to do, but that does not make them bad representatives. host: the republican leader has rejected putting republicans on the select panel but has said they will have their own investigation. what do you know about what that would look like? guest: i assume republicans on the oversight committee and homeland security committee and house administration committee
will do their own due diligence. this is what happened in the senate. we had senate committees look at the aftermath of january 6. they issued a report. i read it. after january 6 i endorsed a bipartisan commission led by rodney davis, a member of the house administration committee. the ranking member, to do a fully bipartisan equal subpoena powder, equal staffing. i would have supported that. i'm afraid now this has boils down to a partisan approach. host: we are speaking this morning with congressman french, a member of the financial services committee. also one of two members of the congressional oversight commission which was established by the cares act. describe your work? guest: we were responsible for following closely all of the action of the u.s. treasury department and the federal reserve area from the beginning
of the covid-19 panic, how they responded and applied financial missing -- assistance to business. as well as governments. that is work that continues. most of those programs have been terminated. most were terminated at the end of 2020. and the federal reserve and the treasury are no longer actively supporting business or state municipal governments as they were at the height of the pandemic. host: what surprised you about your work on this commission? guest: first, my compliments to the speed that congress acted with last march, and the speed of secretary mnuchin and jay powell put in place with the immediate action to calm the markets for debt and equity to make sure that funding out to small businesses. funding got to airlines, state and local governments, to give
them immediate relief from shutting down the entire economy. that was the most important issue. the other issue concerning to me is was it fast enough? did we help enough businesses? did restructure the loans correctly? that work continues. host: only 36% of citizens in your state are fully vaccinated. one of the lowest in the country, why is that? guest: i think they believe the pandemic was over. we were doing very well in early vaccinations. we got all of our elderly sit vaccinated quickly -- elder citizens vaccinated quickly. in april cases fell, hospitalization fell, i think arkansans got complacent. i have been telling everyone i know in my state and
congressional district, consult your visit debt -- your physician. if you're concerned about any impact of this virus and the vaccine, consult with your physician. and consider getting the vaccine. the fastest way to reduce our hospitalizations and all of the public health crisis -- prices we have in our state is through the vaccine. host: take a look at this headline for what your governor has said. state conservative leanings account low vaccination rates. guest: i don't know how to react to that. i don't know if it's conservative leaning. i think people have concerns about the vaccine. i don't know there can serve at a board list -- or liberal concerns. but the best way to handle those concerns is to consult with your physician, your pharmacist. ask questions about the vaccine. consider what's right for you
know the vaccine works. over 95% of the people in the heart -- the hospitals in arkansas are unvaccinated. if smitty is vaccinated and gets covid-19, the symptoms are much better and the recoveries faster. hundreds of millions of people have taken these covid-19 vaccines. that's why the fda and other scientists believe that they are safe and appropriate for most people. if you have that question, consult your physician. but the vaccines are the way back to a full opening of the economy and a safe environment at work and school. host: let's get to the calls. starting on the republican line in newport, kentucky area -- kentucky. caller: thank you. it's amazing, we have the economy, the border, inflation,
everything is out of control with covid and the delta variant . and we have a house of representatives and the senate focused on january 6. it appalls me that we have a president that came in and pushed unity, like partisanship -- and bipartisanship. it's been everything but that. i like to hear your comment. guest: joe biden campaigned on being different. on bringing the country together. he has done anything but. in my view, the policies for the biden administration are set by the democratic-socialist, bernie sanders in the senate, alexandria ocasio-cortez of new york. they are setting this policy agenda. i will give you an example. joe biden said i will work with a bipartisan group of senators
on an infrastructure plan. let's focus on surface transportation and broadband which are states needed. let's target it and let's have it paid for. let's make sure it's bipartisan. joe biden agreed to that. the minute the press conference was over, chuck schumer, nancy pelosi, said no, we are not doing that. we are going to insist on the green new deal and $3.5 trillion of additional spending and $2 trillion in tax increases. we will do that before we consider any bipartisan effort. so effectively nancy pelosi and chuck schumer through the bipartisan and plan under the bus. that's why it is so frustrating to see the far-left control the democrats in the senate and the democrats in the house and blocked even that kind of common sense unity effort by president
biden. host: gary, in new york, and independent. you are next. caller: on the covid situation. we have people coming over the border, moving all over the place in airplanes and they are wondering why covid is floating all over the place. nancy pelosi put adam schiff on the committee. he's nothing but a liar. what a scam it was that donald trump was a russian agent. nobody is asking questions. the whole thing is a sham. and the border situation, we are putting them all over the lace and cnn -- all over the place and cnn says covid is sparking. host: let's get a response. guest: thank you.
it's a serious question. i was at the border in march. we had an unprecedented third -- surge because biden ended construction of the wall and the policy that cause people to stay in mexico have their asylum claim adjudicated. we have had a surge might we haven't seen into decades. a million people across the border illegally. all the ones caught are not tested for covid-19. they are put in a processing facility and sent to health and human services only if they are exhibiting symptoms are they testing for covid-19. and we are not vaccinating. as the gentleman from new york says, we send those families and children all over the country. we pay for their ticket, we deliver them to the cell phone number of a contact they have somewhere in the united states. we don't know if they are tested
are vaccinated and that doesn't make sense to me area in my view this is a major part of the biden border crisis. this is extending the risk of public health. we have seen evidence that the border patrol agent's are coming down with covid. there's a new variant coming from central america and mexico that's even more dangerous potentially than the delta. he's right that this is a public health crisis on the border crisis has to be related to joe biden for having ineffective foreign policies and a lack of management of the public safety and public health. host: congressman, the front page of the wall street journal. the covid-19 mandate can -- mandate imposed on workers in california new york. do you believe they are constitutional? guest: i don't know if they are constitutional. workplaces are going to consider
doing anything to get their workers safe and get back open. from masking, to vaccinations, testing. we have lived with this for 18 months. know what to do to prevent the spread of covid-19. being vaccinated, social distancing, and if you are ill staying home. i think you'll see employers consider strategies to keep people healthy and safe and keep their business open. he see colleges and universities -- you see colleges and universities offering vaccines and testing for students. i think this is a conversation that employers in major educational institutions are having. it's common sense given the spike of cases. host: susan, in connecticut, the democratic collar. caller: representative, i have a
lot of family in arkansas. i raised my daughter in west memphis, out in prairie grove and farmington as well. from all over. i'm worried about them because a lot of them deciding not to get vaccinated. he said they should rely on their doctors. -- you said they should rely on their doctors. a lot of my relatives don't have doctors. even other work it's too expensive for them to keep insurance. i moved back to connecticut when i was diagnosed with breast cancer. a lot of the black relatives in my mixed families died in their mid-50's because they go to clinics. would you come out and say that you have been vaccinated and if people don't have doctors who should they go to? how can we improve the health care and not just rely on employers?
and because you have two topics of interest for me, my other question, for the hearing coming up. would you come out against mo brooks for his insightful speech that he gave january 6, right before the people march to the capital? it was like a call to arms. i hope you've seen it. if anyone hasn't i'm sure the c-span archives habit. watch it -- have it. watch after this program. guest: thank you for those topics. for your family, we have 173 can -- community health centers throughout arkansas. and we have hospitals in every county. getting a vaccine is free. testing is available at those hospitals. that care is available to families of all income levels and stages of health care whether they have a physician or not. i would encourage them to go to their local community health
center or hospital and seek guidance about getting the covid-19 vaccine. that is our best deterrent from the spread of the virus and to improve public health and safety. as it relates to congressman brooks on the siege of january 6, or anybody else between election january 6. who implied something was going to happen other than the certification of the presidential election? i think that rhetoric was out of place. i think it contributed to misleading information to a lot of citizens. once the election was over, there were 60 court cases around the country that challenged the results. that looks at the results. particularly in swing states. on december 14 the electors met and certify the elections. that meant that those states had certified the elections.
and that includes the swing states. many of which have republican legislators. after january 14, the presidential election of 2020 was complete and they certified that joe biden won the election. so on january 6, this was a ceremonial effort to open those memos stay -- from state and report them. from states and report them. i think the idea that that would change is disingenuous and not approach it. host: for this committee, paul, in kansas city, missouri, he thanks you for your support and he wants to know your thoughts on the vice president, former vice president pence, and republican leader mccarthy being called as witnesses? guest: i don't know how this committee is going to work. i don't know what the rules are.
i assume speaker pelosi will have a broad mandate to call whoever she would like as witnesses. each of those people will have to decide if that is something they want to do. and i believe she will have the ability to compel them to do that. we will see what speaker pelosi chooses to do. this is why i'm so concerned by such a partisan effort. if we had a bipartisan commission with equal membership , with equal leadership, with equal staff approval between republicans and democrats and a subpoena approval that requires both sides to approve it, we have a much more sensible appropriate -- sensible, appropriate, thoughtful approach. even if speaker pelosi took that, it will always be charged that it was a one-sided political operation. that's too bad. i don't think it's good for our country. host: a treat for you. -- a tweet for you. i appreciate that you broke
party lines to vote for the investigation. how is this vote affecting your daily life? will it affect your reelection chances? guest: it was the right thing to do. i said that we should have a bipartisan investigation into why our capital was so vulnerable -- our capitol so vulnerable? why were the capitol police deserted? who was involved? how did people bring weapons and plans to break into the capitol? that deserved nvon. i think all americans want to know the answer to that. i believe it was the right decision. when you are in congress, you get to vote. every day you take a physician. is the vote on casting the right one? is it constitutional? is it the right thing for arkansas? for the general welfare and mark
welfare? -- welfare? caller: i saw a lady climbing up a wall in january 6 through eight was unarmed. there were officers around her. she was shot in the neck and murdered. if we went to the border and started shooting illegal immigrants, we would be arrested for murder. i want you to tell me, what's the difference? is it because the individual in question had a badge and works for the federal government and therefore they get away with it? will that be investigated? guest: they will look into the investigation. the capitol police, the uniformed capitol police and the plainclothes capitol police have one responsibility, protecting
the senators, the vice president, and members of the house when they are working in the capital. -- the capitol. that's their principal responsibility. they do that when members are at meetings. the capitol police defended us when we were at the baseball practice in june of 2017 when a crazy left-wing guy targeted republicans and tried to kill everybody at a 6:00 a.m. baseball practice. there were two capitol police men there in plainclothes who were able to defend steve scalise. that shooting that took place at the capitol was the result of the people who broken the capital -- capitol, charged into the chamber and were breaking out glass doors that lead into the chamber. those capital policeman, uniformed and lane close -- plane closed -- plane clo had
the responsibility. -- plainclothes had the response ability. it's a horrible tragedy, but the responsibility of those who broke into the capitol. we have to think long and hard about why it happened. why were they defenseless? why was the perimeter broken? and we would not be having this terrible conversation after the fact otherwise. it's heartbreaking. host: robert in greenville, north carolina, independent. caller: representative, i can't understand why the republican party is standing behind donald trump, who is a criminal. he has lied to us. he tried to overthrow the election. he's continuing to lie. all of your people in the
majority are standing by him. and everyone of you in congress, both sides of the aisle, democrat and republican know that he's a criminal, a liar, and the most dangerous thing that ever happened to us since the civil war. and you consider him the leader of the party because he is the base? you can win but you will destroy the country. and you know that. have you no shame? guest: i appreciate your opinion. president trump was elected by the people for one term as president of the united states. he's a republican. a lot of people appreciate his policies which have led to american leadership abroad. renegotiating trade deals that were not good for the united states, defended religious
liberty, defending life in this country, that had the best economy in 50 years. the lowest unemployment rate, rising wages, reformed taxes. there were a lot of policies that were popular. as a result, president trump is popular with many americans. i hear what you're saying. there are things president trump did that a lot people disagree with. i don't agree with the rhetoric after december 14 that led to many americans thinking there was going to be a different outcome on january 6. i hear what you're saying. i appreciate your point of view. host: is the former president line? guest: about what? host: the election. guest: he didn't win the election. if he said he won the election, he didn't win. host: in maryland, on our democratic line. caller: i'm calling in reference to say that -- to you saying
that joe biden was not trying to be bipartisan. everything that he has done in the senate, for the senate, has been for bipartisanship. you will keep saying he's not. you keep saying he's not because of nancy pelosi. and another thing, why are all of you republicans talking about the election was not won by joe biden? but everything was broken and the black community, the black part of the country. we had to be the ones that cheated, all of the time, why is that? why do you republicans always say that about the black community? guest: i will start with your
comment about joe biden and bipartisanship. i think joe biden campaigned on that. i don't think he has exhibited that in the first few months of his presidency. he's taken a very far-left policy turn that people did not expect in every way. and it's really not worked on a bipartisan basis on major policy issues. as i say in my example, on infrastructure, he offered to do that and was undercut by his own political party. by speaker pelosi and chuck schumer. i don't really understand your point about the black community and elections. i don't share that view. i don't even know what you're referring -- i don't know what you are referring to. i spent a lot of time working in the african-american community in my electoral district. i'm proud to be a cochair of the
black college and university caucus. we are leading and improving those student -- this campus is for those students who go. i pride myself in leading for everyone in my district. not having one point of view were not. it's job i take seriously. host: congressman french hell, serving in his fourth term, representing arkansas's second congressional district of little rock and its suburbs. thank you for your conversations morning. guest: it's great to be with you. thank you. i enjoy the calls. host: coming up, we are going to talk with the leader of the afl-cio president about his unions push for a new infra structure deal and legislation to protect organizing in right to work states. and later, washington post reporters will join us to talk about their new book, i alone can fix it, donald j. trump's
catastrophic final years. ♪ >> david stewart use to practice law in washington, d.c.. he gave that up over 15 years ago to write history. his first book was about the constitutional convention in philadelphia, called the summer of 1787. that was in 2008. a year later, he wrote about the trial of andrew johnson. and then he focused on ehrenberg. then james madison. and now in 2021, he looks at george washington and his mastery of politics. >> historian attorney, david stewart, on this episode of book notes plus.
there is a bipartisan group of senators i missed yesterday's deadline to get something off the floor. negotiators trying to overcome late hurdles. what do you know about the sticking points? what are you pushing for in the legislation? guest: first, i think by the end of today we should know whether we will get a deal or not. i feel confident we will get a deal. a lot of the problems and sticking points we have are being worked out. the formula on how much money transit will get is being worked out. that there will be labor protections is being worked out. all of the sticking points are there. we will get cleared today. this bill is important because it will create jobs and put people back to work. and it will also make the country more competitive in the world. host: what kind of labor
protections are in this deal? guest: prominently wage. there is a law passed called preventive wage, when the government comes in your area and spends tax dollars, it should not drive down wages. so they are required on their projects to pay the prevailing wage in that community. it varies from community to community. but it's an important protection because we don't want our tax dollars to be used to drive down wages. host: and what else do you like in this pending legislation which is being drafted by 10 republicans and democrats in the senate? guest: it will be the biggest infrastructure bill in our history. that means jobs. president biden has crated 3 million jobs in the last year, but we still have a whole from the pandemic -- hole from the
pandemic and the year or two before that. this will bring things like broadband to rural areas which have been left behind. this will help us with schools, transit, roads, and make us more competitive. make the u.s. more competitive on the global market. it's a win-win for everybody. there's been a lot of talk about it, but they have not been able to get it done for the last several years. as a result, the u.s. has fallen further and further behind in infrastructure. and the bill to fix it keeps growing. host: the price tag for this bipartisan agreement is around $1 trillion. the white house, president biden and democrats are saying they are going to push for around 3 trillion more after this gets passed. this could be done by reconciliation, meaning they don't need 60 votes. what do you want to see in the
second package? guest: when you talk about infrastructure, you talk about the physical and organizational structures necessary to run society. so things like childcare are necessary to run society. things like eldercare are necessary to run society. all of the other things to soften infrastructure, things will be in that bill. they are essential. republicans have been unwilling to talk about those. but for society to function we have to have them in their. -- in there. a lot of women are dropping out of the workforce because they can't find childcare or eldercare for the parents that they are taking care of. this would help with that. host: who in these negotiations is representing the union voice?
how are you keeping abreast of the negotiations? guest: we do staff to staff talks, but we are in communication with all 10 senators. primarily on the democratic side. the republican senators tend to talk to us less. the democratic -- so we confer with them. when you talk about converting energy properly, joe manchin has been there. a number of other senators understand the importance of things like prevailing wage and buying american. if we are going to have a big program like this and we don't buy american, we are stimulating every other economy but our own. so it's important for us to do those things. i think that's universally held, at least on the democratic side. host: i want to invite our viewers to join in on this conversation with richard trumka .
you could do so by dialing in on the numbers. for democrats (202) 748-8000. for republicans (202) 748-8001. for independents (202) 748-8002. you can text us with your first name, city and state at (202) 748-8003. that number is also for union members today. dial-in at (202) 748-8003if you belong to a union. speaking of union membership. it's down, around 12% of workers , a slight increase over 2019. but it is low. why is that? guest: first, the labor laws in this country are very antiquated and designed to prevent unionization. let me go back a little bit so that your listener foot -- know the full view. the international labor organization, a tribe heart
organization which has governments, employers, and worker reps, it adopts resolutions on collective bargaining, the right to peacefully strike. all of the industrial centers have adopted this except for one country, the u.s.. those international agencies, when they examine our laws, they say that they are terribly lacking when it comes to international standards. our working standards were adopted over 100 years ago. some of them were designed in the jim crow era. the right to work for instance, that's one of the last relics of the jim crow era. this was designed so that white workers did not have to belong to the same union as black workers. it's time that that relic and jim crow went by the wayside. the result is that corporations are too strong and workers are not strong enough. the proactive -- pro act has
been passed twice by the house, is supported by 65% of the public, democrat, republican, and independent. it would rebalance the scales so that workers with their employers as a collective group and get better wages and working conditions in retirement. when that happens, union membership lingers. in addition, m.i.t. did a study and found that 60 million workers say they would join a union today if given an opportunity. that's almost half of the american workforce. they want to union but they cannot get it because american labor laws and the culture of american corporations in resisting unionization. american corporations spend over a billion dollars he air -- a
year threatening employees, putting them in closed-door sessions where they bombard them with literally lies and propaganda to stop unionization. rather than spending that money to modernize plants or give better benefits. host: let's refresh the memories of our viewers. you mentioned a few things pray let's begin with right to work laws -- he mentioned a couple of things. let's begin with right to work laws. this says these laws guarantee that no person can be compelled to join a union or pay dues as a condition of employment. it can prohibit contracts requiring the hiring of unionized workers only and 27 states have these laws. you mentioned the pro act, which your group is pushing for peer that gives workers the power to override right to work laws, preventing employees from interfering in union election and enhances worker rights,
boycotts, strikes, facilitates initial collective bargaining agreements and penalties for companies and executives that violate workers rights. guest: exactly. host: what's happening on the state level? i know you are pushing for the pro act in washington what happening on the state level? guest: multiple attacks on workers rights, whether they are public workers or private actor workers that private-sector workers. the right midget -- the right to work says if the majority of people are in the union and we have to supply them with all the benefits of the were not in a union. it was designed to weaken unions and allow white workers to not belong to the same union as black workers. that was the original intent when it was put in. it is still being used today by workers and make us weaker and have less benefits. if the federal law is passed, this preempts the state law.
no state can do a law that is in conflict with the federal labor law. it's called federal preemption. host: the u.s. chamber of commerce has been a vocal opponent to the act. they have a survey that found that many americans don't agree with the provision. 70% in the survey were concerned about abolishing right to work protections. 57% believe that workers should not be required to join a union and 34% believe that workers should be required to pay union dues. guest: it's no surprise that the chamber of commerce opposes the act. but when independent -- but when independent pollsters run the poll, 65% of people support the act. corporations are too strong and workers are too weak and that is why wages are not going up and benefits are going down.
the chamber of commerce represents corporations. they like it the way it is. want corporations to stay stronger than unions so your wages can never go up. so that you could get some crumbs off the end of the table. they can make you record profits for the last few years -- they can make record profits for the last two years, paying no taxes and wages are flat. that's because corporations are too strong and workers are too weak. this balances that. he gives workers the power to come together tonight -- it gives workers the power to come together and negotiate for better wages, that are conditions on the job and retirement benefits. that's what's needed. the pro act is several things. it is labor law reform but also civil rights act. we write laws that protect people on the job, no matter where they come from. and it is a -- because union
workers make higher wages and better benefits. they have more money in their pocket so they can spend it. that spending creates demand. that demand creates jobs. it's a virtuous cycle upward, rather than what's going on now, where they merge companies and follow them out, cut your wages and we spiral down. host: let's get to calls. we have eric, in buffalo, new york, a union member. caller: good morning. host: what you need to you belong to? caller: local 4190 w -- local 41 idw, i want to see the union has been the best thing that's ever happened to me. wages, health benefits, pensions, and every person i talked to said that i wish that i got into union at a younger age. free education. it's good programming and it has
a bad name. we have to be productive and we are very productive with our wages and scale, right to work is wrong. lee don't understand -- people don't understand the true purpose of the union in today's day and age. guest: i couldn't agree more. i would like to amplify a few things you said and that you said, greta. one of the best kept secrets in the country is about education. other than the military, unions provide more education every year than any other group through an apprenticeship program. we create the most skilled workers and because they are the most skilled workers, they can get higher wages. employers compete and they outbid everybody in the industry because our workers are more competitive and productive. and then we bring them back in every couple of years to retool them. to get them training on the new
skills they need. and the kids union has a cone of excellence where they tell people how to get better, be more productive. they drive that so that our employees are the most competitive out there and can pay the best wages and get the best benefits. that educational component is important. because we look to the future. as jobs migrate to a different era we are changing the apprenticeship program so that the ibw doesn't just do electrical work, but solar work, wind. they are skilling people up for the changes in the economy. it's a tremendous thing. it's a delightful career with job security. host: palmer, and shreveport, louisiana, a democratic color. caller: -- caller.
caller: i was a member of locals in houston and shreveport for almost 50 years. i made a decent living all the way. and some locals let me down at the tail end. that's neither here nor there. but i was a union worker. i would do it all over again. i was the union worker ever since i got out of the service in 1956. we need unions. thank you. guest: i also want to amplify what homer said. while women get lower wages in the general economy, on a union job, women don't get lower wages, they getting pay -- they get equal pay. blacks and people of color don't
get discriminated against, they get equal pay for the jobs they do. it is really a civil rights thing as well. we protect them. we end discrimination. we fight hard to make sure that our members are treated fairly and the late -- and equally. the contract guarantees that. that's one of the best things about the union, it's a civil rights movement as well as a labor movement. host: a text from tony, in florida, who wants to know. he keeps hearing that unions oppose vaccination mandates by state and local governments. does afl-cio support vaccine mandates? guest: we do. it's important. if you are coming back into the workplace you have to know what's around you. if you come back in and you are not vaccinated, everybody in that workplace is jeopardized. if we don't know whether you have been vaccinated or not, we can't make the proper
accommodations to make sure that you are protected and everyone else's protected. the best thing that can happen is a vaccination. so we could prevent all of these variants from going on. and here's the next step. after we get everybody vaccinated in the united states, we have to help people around the world get vaccinated so that more and more variants don't start springing up and jeopardizing us and our economy. so we don't see another shutdown like we saw last year when covid first hitch. it's an important thing. the president has done a great job on covid. what we need to do now is give -- get more people vaccinated. the mandate is an acceptable way to do it. host: jason, in baltimore, wants to know -- he says i'm a union ironworker. i would like mr. trumka to
explain why he sold us out? how is the green new deal inevitable under the democratic rule going to benefit anybody outside of the electrical union? how can steel be produced with solar panels? how you could even make solar panels without stripmining? he should take the time to apologize to the pipeline workers and resign publicly. guest: i appreciate his point of view. unfortunately for him, the vast majority of our membership agrees with the positions that we have taken. you should know that i don't take these positions. these positions come from the rank-and-file to the unions. and the unions come to the executive council. they tell me what policies they want. climate change is real. we have to address it. that doesn't mean that people have to be left behind. we have insisted that as we change, as these jobs change, so
that you go from a high paying carbon fuel energy job, if those jobs are made union we can increase them and they become family supporting jobs for lower carbon. if not there will be a lower standard of living for people who transition. we will fight hard to make sure that won't happen. that's one of the mainstays that we have done. how do you make steel in the united states? first you protect the steel from people that sheet, like china -- that cheat, like china. china drives people out of the market and undercuts the american market. we can compete anywhere in the world of the rules are fair. we fight to make sure those rules are fair and the competition is fair. so that they don't dump steel onto the market at a lower price to drive companies out of the market. we help negotiate the usmca with
canada and mexico which has big changes that protect us. it's a constant battle. and i will still follow the policies of the rank-and-file and what my affiliate say they want. host: next up, on the republican line. caller: i really have to laugh. i have been working retail for over 30 years. i would never, on death, be a part of the union. they are the biggest ripoff artists in the world. my older brother has worked in the food industry for over 30 years. i saw how whenever my brother needed the union, they were not there for him. all they are interested in is taking your dues and waving you out the door. when i see this guy sitting here, talking about how unions are so necessary.
just listen to him say that climate change is real. climate change is a marxist hoax that this guy is pushing because he's a marxist. and he gives hard-working union dues to liberal democratic candidates who squander the money. i let my work ethic speak for me . i never needed a union. i was promoted. i moved up. this guy checks off all the marxist boxes. women get paid less in the workplace. who knows this? i got paid more than a lot of people throughout my career because i had more experience and i did a superior job to what they did. that's why i got paid more. host: a response. -- let's get a response. guest: that caller did a lot of i, me, and my. workers do better when they stick together.
here's the facts. unions provide higher wages for members, whether you're are black, brown, a woman, or anyone else. you get higher wages and better benefits. you get more time off. you get more job security. you get a better retirement. you get more likely to be able to vote on election day. that you are focused on what you did is a good thing. everyone should have initiative and i applaud you for having initiative. but i can tell you something, you want to talk about a joke? you going up against amazon and thinking you were going to move amazon is a joke. it takes people standing together to get better benefits. i chuckle because whenever there is a last resort, whenever you don't have an answer, you always resort to marxists. i don't even know what up marcus -- a marxist is, quite frankly.
but i do know that corporations are too strong, workers are too weak. the only way to balance that scale is to change the labor law , to get people to come together so they can negotiate better benefits. that helps everyone, when we get higher wages in the get more money in our pockets. that creates demand. that demand crates jobs. host: dan is a democratic caller from wisconsin. and a union member. caller: ironworkers, joined in 1979. i worked for two years in a country, i got minimum wage and i started at four dollars an hour and i thought that was great. i joined a union i'm making four times that. more than what most people work in 10 years. the company didn't do anything after two years and i joined a
union and i went to nine dollars an hour. but what happened after that, ronnie reagan. the biggest union buster that we have ever had in the world, not only did he bust up the unions and take away our advantage of building our things, he got greenspan to create $6 billion in money. did that ever kill our country. this is where we are at. i don't know where we are ever getting it back again. the only way we are ever getting a back again is to start evening the playing field a little bit. it is exactly right, companies have way too much power over the human condition i lived in the south of france 35 years ago. the worst mistake i ever did was come back. the europeans know how to treat
their people. i tell you what. if we had workers going back and forth away your past, you would want to live like a european. they enjoy life. they want to work hard. they just don't want to get ripped up by conflict. is america would experience that, we would probably reshape our whole ballgame. host: before hugh:. how much did you paying -- before you go, how much did you paying union dues? guest: minimal. i graduated when interest rates were 20%, believe it or not. there was no call for the high wage of union back then because the economy was not given that opportunity. now we have a strong economy, some of the workers probably should pay more than i paid a few years ago. but i tried it both ways, i
thought i was on the right track until reagan came the office. host: richard trumka you can respond, but on average, what are the average cost of dues for union member? guest: it varies by union. each one has its own formula. they are set by the rank-and-file. they vote on that at a convention and set their dues rates to what it is. whatever the amount is paid by union, the amount that they benefit you in higher wages, better benefits, and more time off greatly exceeds the amount of money that you pay induced in -- in dues. and you have people in right to work states, they come to the union and demand to be represented at the same level without paying dues. and the law says that we are required to represent them. if there's anything unfair about america, that's pretty unfair
from everybody's point of view. the fact is, union dues are an investment. people there had the organization they need, the bargaining they need, they have the people to represent them on the job whether it is in health and safety or grievance procedure to protect their rights and make sure the employer lives up to the contract. host: what percentage goes to your office in washington. guest: it is minuscule. i have not had any increases 2004. that was the last time it was increased, 2004. host: richard trumka, we thank you for your time this morning. guest: thank you for having me on. host: we are going to take a break. when they come back, philip
rucker and carol leonnig join us to talk about their new book "i alone can fix it." c-span said that with lawmakers to hear about their experience on january 6. you can find these first-hand accounts and more information on our website, c-span.org. here's a portion of our interview with four lawmakers about what they experienced that day. >> we were seeing footage of the senate being breached. everyone was on high alert. i was talking to new members to help in them open up the hoods i had never touched before in my eight years as a member of congress. now we are figuring out how to open them and possibly put them on which i never had to do. there were a lot of freshmen there had gotten to know during orientation that this was their first real experience as a member of congress.
we were watching them and talking to my fellow colleagues about what we could do to stop this. >> capital officer came and said it was necessary to evacuate and that we should take the hoods. there are hoods under the seat of each seat in the chamber, take them out and be prepared to put them on. everybody did. when you pull the red tag, it activates it. people were wearing them. there had been teargas released in the rotunda which was why we were advised we might need to wear them. there was the tremendous hissing noise from all of these hoods. it was the background of the moment.
and of course the pounding from the mob had gotten louder. >> i don't know how far we got into it, i think it was only five people speaking. they were going back and forth between democrats and republicans speaking. 80 policy was at the podium -- nancy pelosi was at the podium. at some point they pulled her away, i did not really pick up on that. that happens every now and then anyway. that did not really catch my attention. what did catch my attention is shortly after that the capitol police officer started coming into the chamber. they were being very loud. we were still debating, people were talking and they were making a lot of commotion. the doors to the chamber are typically open and they started shutting the doors. you could hear them locking.
i noticed several of them were standing in front of dors and had their weapons out. i was like, what is going on? >> there was a moment where i was way to ask one of the officers were his firearm because i have used firearms before against people. i know i'm capable of doing what is necessary to protect myself and others. i didn't know where the offices were. mike's periods in combat is you never know who is willing to actually pull the trigger and do what is necessary. i knew that i could. i was thinking about asking that officer because -- that officer but i decided not to because it did not want to put them in that position. i'm a different person now then when i was a ranger. i thought when i took the uniform off i had left that life
behind me and i had changed. i never thought it would converge again, that i would be in a position of having to think like that and act like that and certainly not as a member of congress. host: to what all of our interviews from lawmakers who were in the chamber january 6, you can go to our website, c-span.org. they will also be airing sundays at 10:00 p.m. eastern time. you can listen with the free radio app. january 6 select committee will hold its first hearing this morning and about 30 minutes. full coverage of that hearing begins at that time on c-span3, on c-span.org, and listen if you are on the go with the free c-span radio app. joining us now is carol leonnig, washington post investigative reporter as well as philip
rucker, a washington post correspondent. they are the co-authors of this new book "i alone can fix it: donald date -- donald j. trump's catastrophic final year." the title from the book comes from a line in donald trump's acceptance speech. [video clip] >> i have joined the political arena so the powerful can no longer beat up on people who can no longer defend themselves. nobody knows the system better than me. which is why i alone can fix it.
[applause] host: carol, what about him saying that led you to title the book this way? guest: it was an interesting challenge to summarize 20/20, what a painful and lethal year. when we looked back over the many ways, trump -- the many ways donald trump governor that year, he professed that he was such a great governor, that he would be such a leader and defender and he could fix everything because he knew best. philip and i in our reporting tried to put former president trump's statements to the test. almost every person who served him concluded with us he did not fix it and oftentimes he made it
worse and he put his own personal gain way ahead of the lives of americans and head of the democracy. guest: it picks up on the way we titled our first book, "very stable genius." we wanted to use his words as a stress test as to whether he lived up to the ways he described himself. this was his pitch to voters, he is a businessman and he would know how to cut through the bureaucratic red tape in washington. by the end of the final year, little got fixed. he could not even fix the election. host: you alluded to the people you talked to, can you talk about who those people are? when you say they all concluded, what do you mean? guest: more than 140 people we interviewed, almost all of them
were front row seat witnesses to this history. they were at president trump's shoulder throughout 2020, some were cabinet members and the most senior level officials, some were friends and aides. what was most striking to philip and me when we set down for this interviews, sometimes five to seven hours at a time, was how consistently even those who were the most ardent supporters of donald trump were near panic at times, frightened by his impulses and the degree to which he was willing to stretch the law or break the law and put people at risk. host: did you talk to the former president? guest: we did. we asked to interview him for the book. he is the principal character in our story here. we went down at the end of our reporting progress to mar-a-lago. we were granted an hour of time
but he ended up talking to us for 2.5 hours. it was a revealing interview because we could see how he continues to live in this alternate reality of the election. he was trying to persuade us he won arizona and everyone knows he won arizona. he continued to claim the election had been stolen from him and there was widespread fraud, the evidence for which has never surfaced or been produced. it was a revealing capstone to our investigative reporting process. by the time we went out to hear what he had to say, we talked to 140 people worked closest with him. we had a good sense of where the reality was. host: did you challenge him on what is aides and friends and cabinet secretary told you? guest: in that interview, we often let donald trump talk and tell us his view. we want to do here his worldview.
there may times we said, sir -- there was not hugging and kissing -- he argues that many of the protesters during the capital january 6 were part of a loving crowd. we definitely questioned him. the purpose of this interview was to hear him. it is a little jaw-dropping, the way he is committed to this alternate vision, the way he has hardened his inner narrative so that it has no correspondence, no morning to reality or fact. i want to do as a thing else to your question about buy -- "i alone can fix it," which is that trump's toolkit was inadequate. the toolkit he used as a real
estate mogul, even in his first 2.5 years as a president, his toolkit was winning the new cycle. it was all about -- the news cycle. it was all about the pr spin. covid was great, it wasn't going to hurt us. that was a failure for 2020. host: the president talking to you, he said it was a waste of time and a work of pure fiction. your response? guest: the book is the truth as we could determine it. there is nothing fictitious about our reporting here. we believe it is solid. his views are reflected in here. i don't think he wasted his time talking to us. i think it is important that carol and i as journalists, trying to get this history right, heard what he had to say and understand it and respected his position even if it is not true and if the reporting from many other sources was not credible -- was more credible.
host: you can call in if you are a democrat, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. you can also text including first name, city, and state that 202-748-8003. stephan, we will go to your first -- to you first. caller: please stop spewing the hate. i am an independent. biden cannot even say two words without stuttering. don't tell me he is going to do a better job than trump. trump is a businessman and he handles it like business. you two have no facts. you say 140 people said this, wow. that is so sad. stop spewing the hate. he is gone, you will be okay. we will get another guy and --
another guy or girl in their. -- in their -- in there. do you have anything to say? host: there is no hate in this book. -- guest: there is no hate in this book. just facts. we are not in the business of saying trump is worse than biden, what we are trying to capture is what really happened. two people who think we are hateful, if your job was to document what happened, i think you would come to the same conclusion. you sound like a smart person, i think you would come to the same conclusions we did. i hope that you will read. host: what do you say to people who don't trust the mainstream media and don't believe your reporting is accurate? guest: it is frustrating because it is not whether you believe
ideologically on the left side or the right side, our reporting is factual. it is what people have told us about what happens behind the scenes and it is cooperated by our review of notes and of calendar entries and of videos and emails correspondence -- and imo correspondence. we tried everything to get this right and we think we do have it right. we help people in the country, whether they support trump or don't support trump, will understand this is accredited -- guest: i just will add that we fact check this with donald trump. host: what do you mean? guest: we give him a list with multiple injuries explaining what we will report and ask for his feedback. overwhelmingly, he agreed to certain things happened.
he had some disputes and we discussed them. host: did you include them in the book, his disputes? guest: i can't remember every single one but i think there are times when he denies it and we summarize that. host: what is the fact checking process behind what you did? guest: you will find there is a lot of dialogue, there are a lot of scenes where people are talking to one another or things are being said in a meeting and every time someone is quoted by name in the book, whether they were a source of ours or not, we went to them in fact checking process and said we have you in these three meetings and you said these things to the president. is that true? is there any additional context you want to share? is this story right? we gave them an opportunity to confirm or deny. if we thought the denials were credible, we took it out the
book because we did not have confidence in that reporting. if he thought the denials were not credible and the initial sources were more credible, then we edited in the context. host: in tennessee, republican. caller: do you know the pennsylvania law? you need to read to inform the public. in atlanta, georgia, we saw them jerked out of suitcases under tables and a lady kept running the same paper through the machine over and over again. we start with our own eyes, it was no hollywood script. you're going to act like that didn't happen? we cite on the -- we had seen it on the local news. they were filming random postal workers. then they didn't do anything to love them to come back in. that is when they started
drinking suitcases out. don't tell me started jerking suitcases out -- started jerking suitcases out. pennsylvania law says only state legislators can change voting law. host: carol leonnig? guest: i think it is important to address your question and i will tell you one of the president's most ardent supporters, attorney general bill barr supported everything trump wanted to accomplish and what to see him reelected had an entire team of prosecutors he launched across the country, including in the states you mentioned to investigate whether any of these claims would have moved the needle. he had a very tense conversation with ethan president donald trump to tell him they had run this ground, including the script table you mentioned any
flood in the precinct place. the attorney general told the president not it was true and it was a lot of misunderstandings and fabrications. none of it would have moved the needle for any of the votes. i would turn you to bill barr. host: philip rucker, anything to add? guest: this is something the department of justice investigated so you don't have to take our word for it. federal law officers in this country who look for election fraud and were trying to find that evidence could not find it. it seems to be a lot of misunderstandings of things that happened on election night and the days that followed. unfortunately, these conspiracies have been pushed by the former president to the point where tens of millions of his supporters believe the fraud existed even though there is not hard evidence to support it. host: alan, east chicago, you
are on. caller: hello. lovely to see you. do you think donald trump when he first ran really thought he was going to win the presidency or had a chance? i think he just ran for the free advertisement. he did not have a transition team, he had no cabinet picks unveiled, essentially the republican just walked in and took over for a while. when he won, i thought he had the look of the most surprised man on the face of the earth. that is what i believe he did a lot of outrageous things. he figured, what do i have to lose? as you talk about -- he got all
of that free airtime on cable tv . wow, this guy is getting about $1 billion of free advertisement. host: philip rucker, do you want to go first? we reported on his first three years. guest: we reported that he was surprised he won in 2020 -- in 2016. he was shocked, the polls showed hillary clinton was going to win and trump pulled it out. he was surprised yet been elected president and he was coming to washington to do this job. according to people around him, he was a little apprehensive about all the job entailed. yet, the people around the president-elect in 2016 were surprised it did not change him, that the weight of the office and the fact that he was becoming president not change his outlook on the job, did not
force him to study up and prepare for that job. he would wing it and he office and people around them had to be the guardrails. host: the first book written by these reporters, "stable genius ," cover the first's years of the president -- the first years of the president's term and their book on the last years of his presidency, "i alone can fix it." carolyn says this, "you express how much the guardrails of democracy were tested. the people you interviewed offer ideas on how to protect democracy from people -- from a person who would abuse power at such a high level." -- such a high level?" guest: mark milley was concerned
about a coup and concerned that tribeca's allies were working to continue his grip on power through some way described as getting their hands on the guys with the guns, the fbi and the pentagon and the cia. one of the major worries in that field, within the military in the pentagon, is that the president showed no shame, no remorse, no regret for any. -- regret for anything. no one was stopping him. he sat result of this reporting is that many people said if donald trump had been more organized, more disciplined, he might have done some perilous damage, some irretrievable damage -- unfixable, forgive me. they did not have suggestions other then, we dodged a bullet. host: what was your reaction to
hearing general milley being asked about your book and his response? guest: a couple things to keep in mind, he does not refute any of the reporting in the book which is not a surprise to us because we were confident in how those moments were reported. he also would not engage the substance of his fears for a coup. he wanted to table that discussion and that the books before itself. he often reiterated that his loyalty as the chairman of the joint chiefs and to the military is to the constitution, not to a political party or a candidate, and that at no point in serving president trump did he violate that both -- that both -- that oath. i think that was his way of
saying we kept it on course, we did the right thing. on the substance of the coup, he did not engage the reporters' questions. he gets called up to the hill at some point, he will testify at some point soon under oath. host: speaking of capitol hill, in five minutes, the january 6 select committee will convene their first hearing. i'm curious, where do you think this committee should take their investigation when it comes to the president? guest: the central question that has still not been answered is what was the president's knowledge of the events before they happened and what are all the details of what he did and did not do that day? there has been some suggestion that people who were organizing the protest in washington warehousing some advertising to
various supporters and groups that they were going to march on the capital. was the president aware of that? a lot of his allies were signaling that. another thing that is important to philip and to me is figuring out what the president was doing that day. when shots rang out, when ashli babbitt was shot as she tried to get into nancy pelosi's lobby, when this right -- this riot turned violent, what did the president resist and what did the president say? we have some of that in the book there is more to know. host: what did you report in your book when it comes to those questions? guest: president trump, during the siege for the first couple hours was glued to the television. he was in the private dining room off the oval office watching it unfold. he was excited to see his supporters in a show of force
marching the steps of the capital caring make america great again hats and flags. they were doing exactly what he told them to do at the ellipse and it was not until it became violent that he started to change his mind set and yet he did not act. he was effectively awol as the president and chief. reporting is he stayed watching the television and did not attempt to call the vice president to check on his safety. mike pence and his family were under real threat and hiding in the basement. he did not call the pentagon to organize a military or law enforcement response. he did not act in any way a military commander would. instead, he watched television and failed the vice president who was hiding in the basement of the capital who began discussions with the pentagon to
give the capital reclaimed by national guard and other federal forces. host: what did you find on the vice president roll that day? guest: it is frightening to think about what his life was that day, what his experience was for him and his family. philip and i learned hair on the back of your neck details that day. i am thinking about how frightening it must have been surrounded by people carrying their spray, climbing gear, riot shields and also carrying a noose that had pence's name on it and they are chanting for his execution. he has been spirited off the senate floor as soon as the glass eggs and one of the doors -- the glass breaks on one of the doors. he is taken away by his secret service detail.
then his detailed leader says we have to get out of here, this is not safe. hundreds of people and eventually thousands are marching through the buildings and -- to the building and the halls. their voices are growing and hordes of people are looking for pence. the first time the detail leader says we need to leave, he says i'm staying here. the second time, no, i'm not leaving. the third time he says it is not a choice anymore, we are going. those are the videos we have seen where they are sneaking down the back door and down a stairwell. there are secret service agents that are cap result agents, they have weapons drawn -- scary. they get to the subterranean basement and when they are there, the vice president is asked to get into his armored
vehicle. not exactly as he said as the president's, but close. he says i'm not getting in which he says it is safe. pence says, i trust you, but i am staying here to certify the election. there is a lot of criticism of vice president pence for standing alongside president trump so many times when he was doing things that were harebrained. in this moment, he could not have been more stubborn and resolute saying i'm staying here. indeed, he did. host: on c-span3, the insurrection committee has made their way into the committee room. you missed liz cheney and adam
kinzinger giving the police officers who are testifying today hugs before taking their chairs to question them about the decisions that were made for them to respond on that day. the chair of the committee is in his chair. they are about to get set underway for their first hearing of this select committee. watch our coverage on c-span3, on our website, and you can listen with the free c-span radio app. guest: this hearing is going to be interesting because it has been such a political football, the makeup of the committee, whether jim jordan would be on it or not. nancy pelosi's power moved to say he could not be chosen for the committee. yet, they appear to be starting with the most apolitical witness lineup, hearing from the police
officers. it will be difficult for house republicans to turn that into a partisan issue because republicans are politically so aligned with police. to hear the testimony from these police officers, described in harrowing detail how dangerous it was, how many lives could have been lost, that will be a powerful day. it was set the tone that the democrats are looking for witches to make this committee seem much more fact-finding than partisan blaming. host: michael, thank you for waiting. go ahead. caller: i have a couple of quick comments. i find it hilarious that these guys hate trump. why isn't the security guard that murdered ashli babbitt
present? guest: again, this book is all fact. if you had to redo -- if you had to review the documents we had to review, look at the calendar entries, interview president trump's aids, you would feel this way to -- president trump's aides, you would feel this way, too. one of the nicest things for philip and me is that this was an opportunity for us to dig deeper into our real-time reporting we do for the washington post. we felt we did a pretty good job reporting for that paper and for the public in real time. when we found we stepped away and dug deeper, there was a lot to learn and we hope that is valuable for the public. host: how do you do your real-time drops on what is happening real-time and work on
this book? guest: we did it concurrently. we were reporting real-time for the post and then begin the process of writing "i alone can fix it" after trump's absence. we had clear schedules to the late winter and early spring this year and did deeper interviews when the president left office. host: a full-time job, carol leonnig? guest: more than a full-time job. sometimes it felt like three jobs. dawn to midnight. host: tina in pennsylvania, go ahead. caller: i just want to make a comment. isn't this weird that president biden has been in office for seven months. they're still housing trump signs everywhere. there are a few bidens signs but
i would not tell you what they say. all i want to say is this, know how many books these people right, know how -- no matter how much fake news, i find it flattering every time these people talk about trump because i am a trump supporter. i find it very flattering. no matter what you people right, no matter what you say, you will never change any of our minds. that is all i have to say. host: what do you have to say to that? guest: our objective is not to change anybody's minds, it is to share what we learned and share the truth. i hope trump supporters and it pennsylvania will read this book like other people do around the country. i have driven through pennsylvania and was struck by how many trump signs are still up there after the election. i think it is a testament to the
strength of his support around the country. it is one reason why i think he's considering running again in 2024. if the primaries were held tomorrow, he would be the republican nominee, certainly. that is how potent his base of support is. the challenge for trump is that is not a majority of the country for was not a majority of the voters who voted last november 3. we will see if he is able to expand the coalition for 2024. we did not write this book to change anybody's minds, we wrote it to enlighten the public. host: cathing from ohio, democratic caller. caller: carol, i have seen you on a lot of news programs. one of the callers earlier went on and on about how you are spreading hate. you responded in a way -- i think you are so professional,
so clearly capable a reporter, you said you sound like a really smart person. i question your judgment on making a comment like that in regards to just saying you have every right to your opinions, but these are facts. these -- this other caller said he will never change our minds. coming to a conclusion myself, many people choose -- willfully choose ignorance. it is sad, but it doesn't matter. i wanted to ask the two of you, many of us believe former president trump is mentally ill. bernie sanders has called him a pathological liar which i believe he is in a narcissist. he certainly displays a lot of mental health issues. did you show any capability, any at all, even a smidgen of ability that if he dealt with
the covid circumstances in an appropriate and safe -- based on facts -- way, that he probably would be the president again? host: i want to leave it there and take that point. guest: you have two great points and i want to address some. let's start with covid. it would have been so easy for donald trump to follow the advice of his medical experts and say exactly what they were advising. wear masks, this pandemic is serious and lives would have been saved. it would have been fairly simple. donald trump's strategy is how do i continue to maintain my ability to win this election, to stay in power, and how do i win this new cycle. that was always a strategy. i want happy talk -- the virus is not serious, masks are not
necessary, i'm working on getting you a vaccine. if you had that advice, he very well may have been president today. bill barr told people around him that he believed the chaos surrounding covid was the cause of president trump's loss. people were getting nervous. their friends were getting sick. they saw a president to had an inconsistent and flip-flopping message. i want to go back to one thing you said about people accepting things and willfully ignoring facts. donald trump is a genius at one thing and that is convincing people he is their defender. convincing them that he is the guy who is going to solve their problems, that he alone can fix it. what we learned over and over and this is that he is not telling the truth.
he's not providing solutions. it is interesting to me to study our nation and find out why is it people want to believe this truth, why do they want to? it is an important question and we have to get to the bottom of it. if we don't accept a shared group of facts, we will never have solutions to the problems are come -- our country has. host: tallahassee, florida, independent. caller: thank you for taking my phone call. the question i have for you two, the special counsel, do you think they should or they may call kevin mccarthy with a subpoena or to find out what happened on any were six whether he did call donald trump? -- on january 6 whether he did call donald trump?
because supposedly he did call donald trump. to your point before, when people lose hope in their politicians, they try to find things that give them hope. trump gave a lot of people hope. he disappointed me and that is why i am an independent now. thank you for taking my time. but do you think kevin mccarthy should be called to learn what he did on the sixth? have a good day. guest: that is a good question. it is not our place as journalists to say whether a committee should or should not call someone to testify, but were kevin mccarthy called, he would be an important witness because he did have that conversation with president trump. they might have communicated multiple times a day. kevin mccarthy shared with some of his colleagues that it was a hostile conversation where he
was trained to get trump to call off supporters and trump was resisting it. his testimony -- he has not spoken to this on the record with journalists or in congress -- but his testimony, which shed light on the president's motive that day and what is a state of mind was in those early hours of the siege. guest: -- host: robinson's this test, "-- this text, "testify -- doj announced former trump officials can testify in hearings. do you think anyone will interview." -- will interview?" explain why you are not going to go down that road to protect sources. guest: a lot of people spoke to
us on the condition of anonymity. they would provide detailed accounts of what happened on the condition would not identify them by name either because they don't want to risk any liability for their jobs, they don't want to alienate the president, they are comfortable talking about things that are so sensitive in public. we know who they are, but as journalists we protect these sources who talk to us and we cannot disclose that. host: marianne in lakewood, new jersey. republican. caller: good morning. i am 84 years old and these two characters -- are they investigating biden and his son like they are doing trump? that is number one. number two, as far as covid, do you remember that biden was the first want to call trump names because he closed the borders to china and then closed the
borders to other countries when they were getting the virus? nancy pelosi was in chinatown hugging and kissing the chinese people and saying come on down, there is nothing wrong. and when dr. fauci, that other idiot, was saying you don't have to wear a mask first. he was telling trump and the people we did not have to and then saying we had to. the world health center, what they were saying, they were saying there was nothing wrong. over six years ago, my doctor found out from a chinese girl she worked with that her husband was a chinese scientist and he said the chinese government was doing something in their labs. they did not know exactly what it was, but it was going to destroy the world. they did not know when it was going to happen but they were doing something. i said this when the virus came out, i set it on this show and other shows and no one listened. where is biden with china?
he is not going to touch china because him and his son or in cahoots with china. host: i will leave it there. philip rucker? guest: the first question, carol and i spent a lot of time investigating trump and the trump residency because that is our job. we are fortunate to work in a newsroom with hundreds of journalists and some of our colleagues have spent a lot of time investigating biden and hunter biden and his business dealings and his relationship with ukraine and china and all of that. i would encourage all of the listeners to go read that work. carol and i are not superheroes, we cannot investigate multiple subjects at once. our assignment these last few years has been to this ticket trump our colleagues do biden -- has been to investigate trump while our colleagues do biden. the column is correct that dr.
fauci initially said you do not need to wear masks because the science was not conclusive early on. there was not scientific evidence to support the idea that masks -- the idea that masks would protect people from the virus. as soon as that became clear, dr. fauci changed his opinion and changed what he was saying publicly. this was an evolving situation. it was not like he was lying to trump or the american people, he was advocating for what the signs showed in that moment. the broader point about china, there are certainly concerns throughout the u.s. government that something may have been afoot in the wuhan lab. it is something the government is continuing to investigate. it is something trump was plugged into and had concerns about. we don't have any conclusive evidence one way or another. there are certainly suspicions here in washington at the
highest levels of the government and they are continuing to try to gather more intelligence to support whatever actually happened. host: the book has received attention from many media. what you think has been missed so far? what would you like to highlight? guest: there is an important moment people have not fixated on which is that the night before the election, the attorney general called mark esper, the defense secretary, to alert him that he learned from sources inside the white house that the president was going to declare victory no matter what the vote count was at the end of the night. that is an interesting moment. it is definitely secondhand and that bill barr was hearing it from a white house friend, but it is intriguing because it is what rudy giuliani said on election night.
the fact that the president was applying that is interesting. there are so many shocking things that it is a long list. the defense secretary was worried about the president finding out that the early vaccine trials were very promising. why was he worried about excellent vaccine results? he was worried the president was going to find out about it and start ordering people to get the vaccine and administer it before it had been properly vetted and uninsured it was safe. host: philip rucker? guest: i agree with the points carol made and i would add that there is reporting in this book about trump's effort to influence the justice department. this was an ongoing theme throughout his presidency. we uncovered some new information about the extent to which he was pressuring bill barr and others at the justice department with regards to roger
stone, with regards to other cases, with the durham investigation which was the probe looking into the origins of the russian investigation. there are a lot of investigations. this was an ongoing priority for trump to seek retribution against former fbi director jim kony and his other so-called enemies. there are a number of scenes where he is on the phone in heated tones with bill barr about all these matters. host: why roger stone? guest: he was upset over the initial sentencing recommendation for roger stone, his longtime confidant and political advisor. bill barr did intervene to lessen that sentence for roger stone. it was something the president was very animated about to the point where bill barr had to school him and said you cannot be reacting this way. you need to let us do our job independently at the justice
department. host: police in california, democratic caller. you are next. caller: thank you for writing this book. i will definitely buy it. i want to ask you not about donald trump on the sixth, but what you know about what happened on the fifth in the capitol building and that there were no tours being allowed, from what i understand from marge because of covid. all tours had been stopped yet a new congresswoman noticed that some congresspeople were giving tours to trump supporters with red hats on. there is film of this. that footage was handed over to somebody and it has never been seen since. there are representatives that are currently in office and known to all.
do you know anything about what happened on the fifth? host: carol leonnig, you are shaking your head. guest: i interviewed a lot of people about this in real time. there was incredible consternation in the capital, especially on the part of nancy pelosi's office that there had been tours given to people who were maggot supporters -- who were maga supporters. it is inconclusive at this point that the grand claims that there was a plot afoot to show people how to get through the capital quickly for that this was some preparatory walk through for the riot the next day -- it is inconclusive because a lot of the investigation by the capitol police and review of the video has mostly found that this was new lawmakers taking families around. it would not be surprising that
those coming members were maga supporters since the new members were republicans. there is no smoking gun there at this point, but we don't know all of the answers. i would stress that one of the most important things to keep in mind is that the weekly fortune away fifth, the fbi and other domestic extremist waters -- watchers were seeing a sharing of the maps of the capital. there were a lot of -- there was a lot of effort and logistics involved in people planning to storm the capital. host: for our viewers on c-span3, the january 6 select committee is underway with their first hearing. bennie thompson, the chair, opened it up with opening statements and video that had not been seen before. representative liz cheney is
giving any opening statement. normally that time is reserved for the breaking member of the committee. democrats are letting her go with any opening statement. over on c-span3 is where you can watch our coverage of that. james in mason, west virginia, independent. caller: i would like to ask the reporters why trump would go on national tv a couple of weeks before the election being a draft dodger and call all of us veterans losers. he could not have expected one veteran in the country to vote for him. host: did you do any reporting on that? guest: i am trying to come up with when exactly that occurred and i think the caller is referring to the comments that came out publicly before the election but were things trump said in a trip to the world war
i gravesite earlier in his presidency where he called veterans losers and said a number of other derogatory comments about those who served in the military. trump did win the support of a number of veterans but he did not win the support of all veterans. i think polling would show that many people in the military did end up shooting -- and up supporting joe biden. trump has had this discomfort with talking about military service because he himself has not served in the military and dodged the draft in the vietnam war, citing bone spurs in his foot. you can go down a rabbit hole reading if that is true or not, but nevertheless he avoided military service. his sons have not served in the military either. he saw himself as a champion of
those in your form -- of those in uniform. it is a touchy issue for him. yet, so many military servicemembers and veterans didn't up supporting him in the end. host: michaela in georgia, republican. caller: i have been sitting here watching this. i was going to watch the hearing and i came across your. dashcam across you. -- and i came across you. i have been doing a lot of soul-searching. i will be taking a citizenship test next year so i'm trying to decide if i will vote democrat or republican or independent. the one thing you said earlier that i guess touched a nerve was you're not citing who said things to you in the book
because they did not want to be called out. how do we as voters, citizens, humans, no what you wrote is the truth? -- know what you wrote is the truth? i've watched videos from january 6. i've seen people underneath trees changing into maga gear to go into the -- what i am asking is how do we know the truth? guest: i am an advocate of supporters showing more of their work. how do we show people we are serious? philip and my reputation -- our reputations hang in the balance of if we cooperate -- if we corroborate this reporting.
any people who wanted to speak to us are really serious people. they were a mixture of afraid of donald trump and what you might do to them if they came forward and some of them are still in favor of donald trump's legacy and his future. they did not want to be seen calling him out to damage that. one of the things that is most important to say is that we corroborated this material within a mixture of people so the people who don't believe a reporting that joseph ivanka trump and a slightly flattering vein, we tested that with people who don't have a ivanka trump's interests at heart and those people who are more objective and those who are fans. the same people who say things that were very critical of donald trump, we tested that with witnesses and others were huge fans of his.
it is to supporters who are speaking here over and over again. if we could name them for you, we would. i just trust we would not be in this business if we did not care deeply about getting it right and stress testing it to the ends of the earth. host: what is the importance of your reputation, philip rucker? guest: it is everything in journalism. if we get something wrong or we print something in this book that is not true but it into in in their -- into in there because we did not check our facts, our career goes poof. it is essential for us. we were really diligent in not only reporting but writing this narrative.
to check that all the dates and all the numbers and all the times and places for events were accurate. that was essential. this is a work of history but it is also a work of truth. if we screwed it up, we would be losing a lot. a lot was on the line. i think we met that test. host: the book is "i alone can fix it." philip rucker along with his colleague carol leonnig with the washington post, we thank you both. guest: thank you for having us. host: the house is about to gamble and, live coverage right here on c-span.
[captioning made possible by the national captioning institute, inc., in cooperation with the united states house of representatives. any use of the closed-captioned coverage of the house proceedings for political or commercial purposes is expressly prohibited by the u.s. house of representatives.] the speaker pro tempore: the house will be in order. the chair lays before the house a communication from the speaker. the clerk: the speaker's room, washington, d.c., july 27, 2021, i hereby appoint the honorable henry cuellar to act as speaker pro tempore on this day. signed, nancy pelosi, speaker of the house of representatives. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant to the order of the house of january 4, 2021, the chair will now recognize members from lists submitted by the majority and minority leaders for morning hour debate.