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tv   NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg Discusses the Transatlantic Alliance  CSPAN  June 6, 2021 3:11am-4:16am EDT

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for women and girls in particular. nato was a great fourth multiplier for the good and the afghan society. still, i am aware that the challenges nato faces 10 years ago are in many cases not the same ones that the alliance faces today. china and russia present unique challenges and with the rise of artificial intelligence and quantum computing big data analytics, biotechnology and more emerging technologies present new opportunities, but also potential challenges for humanity. what's more, climate change, one of the defining transnational challenges of our time.
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threatens the ability of millions of people to access natural resources as basic as water. and raising the potential for new and destabilizing ways of migration. globally, the resurgence of nationalism and radicalism and the authorities in -- authoritarianism shakes the foundation of our democracies. recognizing these unique threats, which are truly existential, it is imperative that we have multilateral institutions like nato rooted in democracies and tied together by our essential values to meet the challenges of the future. that is why i am pleased to welcome secretary stoltenberg to the states today, he will highlight has a vision for how nato can prepare for the challenges of the 21st century through his nato 2030 initiative. i will tell you, on monday, i will be lecturing at your nato
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defense forum in rome. i would like to take -- turn the floor to catherine ashbrook, who will introduce secretary-general stoltenberg shortly. the incoming ceo -- catherine is a crucial voice on foreign policy and international relations. formerly the director of the future of diplomacy project at harvard kennedy school, catherine has a multi-decade career as an expert on trade and security policy. it was wonderful to see you again this morning. and the floor is yours. >> thank you, general allen. iq not only for the remarks, but your service to the oldest democratic -- democratically grounded alliance in the world. on behalf of the german council on foreign relations, i also want to welcome everyone and thank our partners at brookings and at the nato and say, how
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pleased we are mr. secretary-general to be hosting this event across two time zones and across maybe perhaps many more, but certainly across two noted -- nato members and i winter how many occasions you had -- nato members and i wonder how many occasions you had to be in two places at once. you were born in the aftermath of the great war of the last century, it involved -- it ended the cold war focused above all on the security and integrity of the european continent and that protection of all of its member states grounded in the solitary -- solidarity commitment. of course, closer to home in kosovo in the mediterranean. two decades of joint efforts have been highly frustrating at times for the alliance.
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in the 20th century, for most of nato's history, the systemic rival of the alliance, to democracies was the soviet union, and adversary that was formidable not in its economy and innovative capacity. in the 21st century, as general allen has just alluded, nato members face new realities and constraints. an entirely new confrontation on multiple levels that demands a new type of engagement. a competitor in china with military capacity and an economy that is fully competitive to say the least with nato's democracy. a country like germany, my own, with a strong economic link to china must contemplate new tensions. when -- free open market, economy, innovative capacities
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and has in part allowed for the presumption that there might be ultimate military superiority. how did these issues play out in the nato context? we will hear great details from our guest this morning, that nato secretary-general. geographically, in a shrinking world, it brings questions about rights and controls between nato and russia and china and to direct -- in arctic where the contacts mesh directly. and we see a weakening of democratic integrity across nato member states, not just because it is weakening internally, but because that weakening is a result of influence by russia and china. there disinformation, cyber incursion, this weekend the trust fabric on which nato is built. of course, we do see a shift in technology that will challenge nato to be at once more resilient and more anticipatory.
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i -- on the transnational issues that general allen mention, they are vital. i am pleased that we will be opening a climate center in the fall to support nato in its vital work and our collaborators across the world. these urgent realities require radical new thinking that was a prerogative of nato 2030. we were pleased to be a part of this project. we are all the more pleased to hear from the secretary-general how the conclusions of this project will play out in the conversation on june 14 at the nato summit. mr. secretary-general, welcome and the floor is yours. sec. gen. stoltenberg: thank you so much and good afternoon from brussels. hello to you in berlin and in washington.
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let me start by thanking the brookings institution and the german council on foreign relations for hosting this event with nato. in 10 days time, nato leaders will meet in brussels at the pitiful moment for our lives. we are drawing down in afghanistan, ending our largest military operation, but at the same time, we are stepping up our response to the growing global competition. russia and china are leading and authoritarian pushback against the national order. russia continues to show dangerous behavior with its massive military buildup from the arctic through africa. it intimidates its neighbors, suppresses peaceful opposition at home, and carries out hybrid
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attacks across nato countries. china is asserting itself on the global stage. nato does not see china as an adversary. there are opportunities to engage with -- on issues like trade, climate change, and arms-control. it it must be clear, -- china would soon have the largest economy in the world, it already has the 2nd largest defense project and the biggest navy. and it is seeking to control critical infrastructure in our countries and around the world. but beijing does not share our values. the chinese authorities have created an unprecedented system
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of surveillance and control over their own people. they crackdown on peaceful dissent and religious minorities. the written -- threaten -- threaten neighbors and hamper freedom of navigation and the south china sea. so our security environment is more complex and contested than ever before. it was global competition, sophisticated cyber attacks, virtual terrorism, the proliferation of nuclear weapons, and the security impacts of climate change. none of our countries can face these challenges alone. but the nations of europe and north america are not alone. we stand together in nato.
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this is what nato 2030 is about, standing strong together. it is good to know that our recent polling shows that over 80% of our citizens consider the relationship between north america and europe important in dealing with the security challenges. this next and ambitious nato 2030 agenda is even more relevant. i will outline the key areas. first, we will strengthen nato as a forum for consultation. on issues that affect transnational security including syria, iran, or the south china sea. because nato is not just a
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military, we ate -- military alliance, we are a political military alliance. our political unity managers. -- matters. we must use nato even more. to address our differences, forge a common understanding, and coordinate our responses. military, economic, and diplomatic. second, we will boost our commitment to our collective defense against -- since 2014, we have implemented the largest reinforcement to our collective defense in degeneration. enhancing our ability to defend our land, at sea, in the air, in
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cyberspace, and in space. we will rapidly and fully implement our plan to strengthen our military posture, continuing to increase -- monetize our capabilities and invest more in our collective nests -- collective nests. strong militaries are important, but strong societies are our first line of defense. so you must raise the level of ambition when it comes to resilience. our third aim is therefore to develop -- and work to transfer them to concrete national goals. to protect our critical infrastructure, make our society less vulnerable to attacks and
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ensure our militaries can operate in peace, crisis, and conflict. fourth, we must boost transatlantic innovation, sharpen our technological edge, and prevent innovation gaps among allies. to ensure we can continue to work together. we will create a transatlantic defense -- a new center to foster greater cooperation among allies on technology. in closer collaboration with researchers, businesses, and startups. with extra funding from the nations that decide to participate. fifth, we must play our part in upholding the rules-based
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national order. by speaking with one voice to defend our values and interest and encourage others to play by the rules, ensuring freedom of navigation, a safe and secure cyberspace, and setting new standards for emerging technologies. we will strengthen our existing partnerships, for example with the european union and forge new engagements with other countries around the world, including in africa, asia, and latin america. conflicts and instabilities in nato's neighbors undermine our security. so a six aim -- sixth -- from
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iraq to jordan and georgia to ukraine, in areas like counterterrorism, counter cyber attacks, crisis management, -- nato has a long track record and we must build on it. because training and building the capacity of our partners is the best way to ensure stability in our neighbors. 7th, climate change. global warming is a crisis multiplier. so nato must address the security consequences of climate change. my ambition is to have a clear political commitment at the summit to significantly reduce military emissions, contributing to net zero. we also conduct an alliance-wide
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assessment of our assets and inflations. integrate climate change into our planning and exercises, partner with industry to be -- have climate neutral capabilities and prioritizes sustainable technologies. as our societies move to more renewable energies, we must ensure our militaries are part of that energy transition. eight, we will agree to develop nato's next strategic concept, to reconnect to our values and our enduring purpose and to adapt to the changing security environment. and finally, to do all of this, we need to invest more.
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we are on the right track, with seven years of consecutive increases in the defense spending by europe and canada. we must keep up this momentum, but it should not only be investing more, we should invest better. that is why we should increase nato's common budget to help fund more joint training and exercises, stronger cyber defenses, cutting edge capabilities, and more tech building for our partners. because investing together through nato as a force multiplier. it is more efficient and it sends a strong message of unity and resolved.
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through nato 2030, we are adapting to more competitive world. our ambitions must be high as the challenges to our security are great. therefore, i welcome the president's clear message on strengthening alliances, starting with nato. we have a unique opportunity to open a new chapter in transatlantic relations. we must seize this opportunity to strengthen nato and the vital transatlantic bond, to keep our people safe in a more contested world. thank you, and i look forward to our conversation. >> thank you very much, secretary-general. i hope everybody can hear me. i hear myself on your screen, which is an extremely weird thing to see someone's dining
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room table. good morning, afternoon, or evening to our audiences watching from multiple time zones. my name is -- i am a fellow at the u.s. and europe brookings institution and it is my pleasure to engage with secretary-general of nato to discuss his speech and the issues before the transatlantic alliance at the upcoming june 14 summit and beyond it and i will be weaving in question for my colleagues as well as from the audience. cathryn and i have that might interpret -- internet provider wants to dig up the cable that she will step up as backup moderator if anything happens on my end. so do not feel confused if that happens. i want to remind our viewers
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that we are on the record here and that mr. stoltenberg's job is that of a diplomat to transmit and i -- he gave his address to both houses of congress in april, 2019 and i can attest personally to the skillet that he does this in difficult circumstances. i also want to make sure that the end, you will have a clear sense of the complexities involved, so he and i will look at some very difficult questions together. and we will end -- my first question comes from a christian of the german counsel in foreign relations. he says nato is expanding its scope in areas beyond military, cyber, technology, space, climates. in many of these areas, the european union can be a valuable partner, it has regulatory and can spend billions.
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how do you propose to ensure that the security of europe and the u.s. maximizes the utility of both their organizations rather than falling prey to other -- another beauty contest. i would add that you did not mention that eu, an interesting question and we are looking forward to your answer. sec. gen. stoltenberg: thank you so much. i believe in the corporation -- cooperation between the eu and nato. i am proud that last year, we were able to list the eu cooperation -- we work together on dealing with cyber threats, military mobility, we are working together in that gnc and participate in each other's meetings and someone and i really also think we should continue to expand and step up our cooperation with the
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european union. we are different organizations, but we share the same neighborhood and the same challenges, we shame that share the same -- we share the same members. 90% of the people in the european union live in nato countries. there are many similarities. i also welcome efforts on defense. it can increase defense spending, it can develop the capabilities and it can also help to overcome that fragmentation of the european defense industry. having said that, that you cannot defend europe -- the eu cannot defend europe. it cannot replace nato, it is a cornerstone for european security. 80% of nato's defense spending is coming from non-eu nato allies. but this is not only about the sources, it is also about
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geography. in the north, you have norway, in the south, you have turkey, and in the west, we have that united states, canada and that u.k. and of course, all of these countries in different ways are important for defense of europe. perhaps most importantly, any attempt to weaken the bond between europe and north america in nato will not only weaken nato, it will divide europe, so therefore, my main message is that yes, we should work together, yes, i welcome efforts on defense, but not something that can replace or duplicate or protect europe because that is something we have to do in nato together. >> that implies that strategic
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atomic question. -- autonomous question. what i will ask on this point is something where you said in your speech which is you would work toward the more political and data that speaks with one voice. eu nato cooperation it will do what is necessary and useful. it is an egregious and of useful cooperation between being prevented by that -- by their principles. how do you propose to strengthen that ability to speak with one voice given the political divides there are? sec. gen. stoltenberg: we would never speak with one voice on all issues at all times. that will never happen. that reflects a reality that we are 30 different nations from both sides of the atlantic with
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different histories, geography, political parties in government. we are democracies and therefore, there will always be differences. so, that is not the aim that we should all be monolithic all issues. that, i think it is important to stand together on the main messages, for instance, when it comes to rules-based international order, when it comes to his desk to responding to pushback from authoritarian powers like china and russia. -- when it comes to responding to pushback from authoritarian powers like china and russia. >> let me move straight because that is something that i suspect many of our viewers are equally
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outraged about. that includes myself. because i think we have quite a number of issues we have to talk about in the context of nato's eastern blank. you assumed office as secretary-general in 2014 at the height of the ukraine crisis, a conflict that continues to this day and has led to a significant reorientation of the alliance. and tensions on the eastern flank have become worse, raising a cohort of political, technological, and strategic issues. let's begin with the belarus question. can you tell us to what degree russia as implied in this incident? what it tells us about russia strategy and what does that mean for defense on the eastern flank? i would add that russia and belarus have been integrating and russia is planning to station more of its troops and its western military district,
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in other words, close to nato's eastern border. sec. gen. stoltenberg: i cannot go into details about intelligence, but what i can say taken terror -- confirm what you say, they are closely integrated, working closely together, and then you can see what has taken place in the public space of the forest landing of a civilian aircraft. russia has not condemned it. russia is doing the opposite, to excuse and explain that outrageous action. which was dangerous for passengers, violating basic rules in aviation, but there are ways to crackdown on democratic protest and the position in belarus -- we have called journ.
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we have called on the immediate release of him and his companions, and of course condemned that action very strongly, and i welcome the fact that the united states, the united kingdom, nato allies, the european union, aren't lamenting sanctions because -- are implementing sanctions because there has to be consequences when they behave the way they did in this case. >> a question from my colleague michael, you think the maddow presence is -- nato presence is an adequate deterrent or is more needed? sec. gen. stoltenberg: it is extremely important what we have done. we have implemented the biggest reinforcement since the end of the cold war with forces, air
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policing, and increased presence. we are constantly assessing what more we need to do. we are investing in new, modern capabilities, and part of the agenda which we will agree when heads of state come to brussels in 10 days time will be to also to further strengthen our deterrence and investment in new capabilities. we are always adjusting and assessing our posture, but we have done a lot already when it comes to responding to russia. >> on ukraine next door, could the alliance do more, and
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another colleague, jeremy shapiro notes there are efforts underfoot in the u.s. congress to grant ukraine membership status. is ukraine ready for that? sec. gen. stoltenberg: we provide strong political and practical support to ukraine. we strongly support their territorial integrity and sovereignty. nato allies and nato provides different kinds of support, training, capacity building in different areas and i urge i allies to do more of that -- and i urge allies to do more of that. our message to ukraine is the main focus should now be on reform to modernize their institutions to fight corruption. that is important in itself, but reforming and modernizing is also the best way to move towards membership in nato, so the focus is not now on the
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reform and we are helping them with that as they move towards further your atlantic integration. host: -- >> thank you. there are key member state elections coming up, my own country, germany, france and the u.s. midterms next year. our member states doing enough against propaganda and misinformation coming from states like russia and china? i know the european court auditors have criticized germany for not adequately implementing regulations and not combating this week. sec. gen. stoltenberg: we are doing a lot. our allies, we are very much
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aware of that we are faced with not only the risk and challenge related to military and armed attacks, but also this cyber, differing in the dim -- diplomatic process -- democratic process pit we have seen that in the united states and many european allied countries we are stepping up partly by pushing back on disinformation. on the most important things you can do is to make sure you have free and independent media. journalists ask difficult questions. check their sources. that is the best defense. then, actually, of course we have to be very focused on this because it is serious -- it is trying to undermine the trust, divide us, but when you look at
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opinion polls and we have new numbers coming out now, they confirm very strong support for nano -- nato, so those trying to undermine support in nato have not been successful. it goes up and down between allied countries, but the main message is there is overwhelming support for nato, and for the importance of investing in our security, so overall, it is quite a strong public support. constanze: let me move into the field of technology. russia has developed missiles that can be based on ship and land, meaning they can be deployed in the mediterranean, another increasingly unstable neighborhood pewter what does it mean for those air defenses. it is perhaps reassuring that france has intercepted a ship launch missile, but still these missiles presented huge challenge, including to, perhaps, future arms control
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conversation between the united states, the biden administration, and russia. sec. gen. stoltenberg: we have seen a pattern of russia and china investing heavily in new modern capabilities, conventional and nuclear, but also in immediate range missiles, which violated the treaty, and this pattern is why nato has implemented the biggest -- of our lives pit we are investing more in modern military women. you have to remember -- equipment. you have to remember, maddow -- nato allies have decreased spending and since then we have
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increased spending every year. by increasing, we are enabling us to respond to a more complex and demanding security environment, including, for instance, novel russian missile systems. we are developing our missile defense capabilities. many alleys are in the process of requiring new systems, fifth generation aircraft is an important part of air and missile defense and allies are requiring that. then we will continue to work for arms control, and arms-control -- has all of this been important? if anything, even more important with more advanced weapons systems and technologies integrated into new systems. i welcome the fact that the united states and russia have agreed to extend the new start agreement, and i'm looking forward to discussing arms-control at the summit in 10
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days time in nato, but also the fact that president biden, after the summit will go and meet the russian president, because i think they have many things to talk about, including arms-control. constanze: let me stay here with resilience and technology. the u.s. has been the object of three major attacks on three major critical infrastructure -- solar wind, the colonial pipeline, the beef industry in recent weeks and months. all of these perpetrated by criminal actors and hosted by nationstates. my colleague -- how should commitments be understood with respect to violations of nato nations cyberspace is? -- cyberspaces? sec. gen. stoltenberg: what nato has done over the last year is to strengthen the efforts together when it comes to cyber
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defenses, protecting cyber networks. we have done that in different ways. first, we have established cyber as a military domain alongside air, sea, land. we have established cyber operations, and we have also decided that a cyber attack can trigger article five, which demonstrates a regard for cyber attacks that is as serious as a kinetic attack. we will never tell where the threshold is for treating article five, but we have told them that cyber attacks can trigger defense across. then we help each other support each other and strengthen our ability to protect our cyber networks, including by holding big cyber exercises and sharing best practices, but since the cyber attacks become more and
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more frequent and sophisticated, we need to adapt and approve, and again, this is what nato 2030 is about, not least to develop this technology accelerator, which is about strengthening, establishing a center, a tool for how to coordinate efforts among allies in accordance with technology and also have one in north america and europe, enabling us to work more closely across the atlantic to make sure we don't have the technological gap. we see the need to invest in technology, in don't 2030 is about that. constanze: -- indeed nato 2030 is about that. constanze: let me move away from
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alliances, we are quite capable of disagreeing with each other and we know complete risks were only narrowly averted -- averted, but as you said in your speech, we know we cannot address major challenges alone. we really are each other's lies. i am getting a flood of questions about turkey. there are variations over this, but the question is, and i will put it to you as it is being asked here by number of people, can turkey, given its behavior, continue to be seen as a reliable nato ally, and i would add is there any leverage nato has, or nato member states to, shows a, influence turkey's behavior and make them understand there are costs to imposing itself on nato in the way it has done in the past.
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sec. gen. stoltenberg: nato is based on some core values, democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty, and i attached great importance to those values and i know allies do the same. allies have expressed their concerns, and i have done this also because this is an issue that has been discussed and raised within nato several times. i think nato is a platform to have open discussions when there are differences, concerns that we sit around the same table, and we open and frank way to express our views and our concerns when we have concerns to what extent we leave -- live up to our core values. then i think it is also important to remember that turkey is an important name --
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nato ally. you can look at the map and realized the importance of the landmass of turkey, and also the nato -- only nato ally that goes -- borders iraq and syria. turkish infrastructure has been extremely important in fighting isis. the general knows about that, that turkey played an important role in the global coalition to defeat isis and we continue to work closely with the nato ally in stabilizing. turkey is also important when it comes to dealing with the migrant refugee crisis. we have the nano -- nato maritime presence where we link turkey together with greece to help implement the agreement
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between turkey and the european union. yes to our differences and disagreements, and discussions we have had within the lines of some of the differences you just mentioned is an example of that, but then i believe that nato is a platform for these kinds of discussions and consultations, because that is the only way we can move forward and try to find a way to move together. to add one more thing, nato can be a platform to address when there are really concrete concerns as we have seen in the eastern mediterranean with tensions in turkey. nato has been able to establish a mechanism between greece and turkey to minimize the risk for access. as we saw in the 1990's, there were casualties, and ships and planes collided in the air and at sea. we need to prevent that from
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happening again, and this defense we have been able to establish, has been able to establish some means of communication, some procedures, which are helpful to at least avoid incidents and accidents and that is an example of how nato can address issues between alex. constanze: that said cap -- allies. constanze: that said, i was going to ask about the mediterranean because not only was the place were several nato states have been butting heads with each other, the turks, the greeks, and the french, among others, but where tensions are rising, where nato member states have in general been resistant -- quite strongly resistant -- to even entertaining the notion that we might have a nato framework for military operations of whatever kind, or to have political conversations
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at nato about these issues. what can you do to change that, and you think there should be a role for nato even further in stabilizing the region, for example, by patrolling the gulf of aden? sec. gen. stoltenberg: when it comes to the eastern mediterranean, as i said, we have been able to use the nato structures -- the fact that turkey and greece meet every day at the nato headquarters to bring them together and establish a mechanism we have also been able to expand on how to prevent incidents and accidents. that is not a smoking. that is a big thing because we have seen before these kinds of tensions can lead to really dangerous situations with casualties. second, i think this mechanism has helped to pave the way for
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talks between greece and turkey on the underlying dispute in the region, which is also helpful and important. then, thirdly, over the last month we have seen some reduction in tensions, partly because the talks have started, as also partly because, for instance, turkish drilling and seismic surveys in contested waters have been suspended or has ended. i am not saying everything is fine, or that all problems are solved, but i'm saying compared to where we were not so long ago, we are in a better place now and nato will continue to be a platform, a framework for
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trying to facilitate efforts to reduce tensions and find a way forward. constanze: secretary-general, we have short of 15 minutes, and we have to talk about the alliance in china, but i want to take us, by way of a question about button sharing in europe, and the first one, i am going to ask you a slightly off kilter entry to the u.s. will begin a nuclear posture review this year and there are debates that are making european allies, including those that have nuclear weapons quite nervous because they add thorny issues, and would require an increase in the conventional deterrent in europe. how do you see a role in managing this debate, and doesn't that mean ultimately telling the germans they are going to have to really shoulder a lot of the land-based conventional deterrents in the
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future, more than they are doing now? sec. gen. stoltenberg: i am not sure i fully understand the question, but, yes, european allies have to invest more in defense and have to take more responsibility for our collective defense in europe. that is exactly what we have agreed to do and that is exactly what we are doing. european allies are stepping up after years of reducing investment in defense. all european allies have increased in the last month and by investing more over many years we are getting more capabilities, higher readiness, more exercises and new equipment, and more forces. we still have to do more, but we are on the right track, and i am absolutely certain that at the summit in 10 days time, that will be appreciated and
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recognized, and the united states also sees the advantage of european allies to recognize the progress european allies and canada are making. the good news is that the united states remains committed to european security. over the last years we have seen some increases in u.s. forces in europe. we have seen new battle groups, one led by the notice states, another by canada, looking to get a europe, and you mentioned my speech in the congress, and my main message in that speech is that it is good to have friends. a strong nato is good for europe, but it is also good for the united states, and i feel that that message is very much agreed not only in europe, but in washington and the biden administration has made it clear message that now is the time to
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strengthen the transatlantic bond and nato, and for me it is not either the u.s. or europe, it is actually europe and north america working together in strategic solidarity, which i believe is the best way to keep us all safe. constanze: ok. thank you very much. let's come to the final question -- i have been getting a lot of questions here, and many of my colleagues that about it. it is good to have friends, and american friends are shifting their strategic focus to china, strengthening their maritime presence, and it is not increasing its defense budget. i think that hasn't locations for us. i also want to remind us all in case anybody was forgetting, today is the 32nd anniversary of
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the brutal crackdown of the chinese democracy movement in tiananmen square, and we are looking at a china that is pursuing a global dominance strategy, not just in its own region, but in the middle east and africa and nato's neighborhood and within the territory of the alliance. many of our colleagues -- what exactly is the role you see for nato in dealing with china and more generally in the asia pacific? constanze: -- sec. gen. stoltenberg: almost all the proposals in nato 2030 are relevant for how nato can address china, and more conversations between allies, investing more in technology, sharing technology, facilitating development of new technology, reaching out to new partners, working with partners in the asia, australia, new zealand,
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japan, south korea, and also the fact that we are going to decide to develop our next strategic concept, all of this is in different ways relevant for how data -- nato should address china. we had an important discussion about telecommunications and 5g and the importance of resilience. we are working hard to develop goals and more guidelines on how to protect infrastructure relevant for china. a new technology accelerator is extremely important for meeting the challenges china opposes for being the lead in some of these technologies. now we are going to have a strategic concept here. we don't mention china with one single word. i can guarantee you one thing,
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and the new nato 2030, china will be mentioned. we will develop new strategic concepts that illustrate we have come a long way. we also have to member the first time we mentioned china in a nato document was at the nato summit in 20. that was the first time. -- 2019. that was the first time. now we have come a long way. we see a convergence of use. there are still differences. there are documents and the leaders agree here in brussels at the nato summit, we will have much more language on china then we have ever had before and there will be concrete decisions on technology, resilience, and so on, which are all relevant
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for the way we handle china. constanze: let me push you because i think that will be a huge question in the next two weeks from the g7 summit to the nato summit. we all know that there is a lot of interest -- there are a lot of interests involved, not just military, but economic and there is significantly divergent views on this, not least between the united states in my own country, germany, which is heavily invested economically with trade with china and investment in china. how does your promise of a more political nato translate into producing some ford of uniform -- some form of uniform -- unified platform, i will not take consensus, on this. sec. gen. stoltenberg: we will
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see in time it i will not go in details, but i -- time. i will not go into details, but there is reason to expect they will agree on communicated as more language on china than ever before, and i have to admit that is not so much because before we had little, but it will be more now than at any stage in nato's history, and i'm also confident that when we agreed -- agree on a new strategic concept, china will play a more prominent role than ever before. we will have consensus. that is exactly the way we work, and that is the impressive thing. given the fact there are differences and we don't look i to i on all issues -- eye to eye on all issues we are able to agree on some core issues to
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this is not about declaring china and adversary -- and adversary -- and adversary. there are places we have to agree on. climate change, arms control. at the same time, allies recognize the security consequences of the shifting global balance of power caused by the rise of china, and that matters for our security. for the united states it demonstrates the value of nato because the united states has normally always been the biggest in all domains when you compare the net states -- domains. when you compare the united states with china, it is not the biggest. soon china will surpass the united states in terms of their economy, in terms of the size of their navy. china is a me to have predominant military power by the middle of this century, and china is leading in some of the most important technologies,
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including, for instance, in some parts of the artificial intelligence and autonomous systems. so, for the united states to not just address china alone, but to have allies in europe and canada is a great advantage, especially when there are concerns for the rise of china. nato has become more important because of the shift in global power caused by the rise of china. constanze: i think it is fair to say views on china have changed significantly as they have on russia and in my own country. we have time for one last country -- question. it comes from jeffrey, a former u.s. diplomat and now the president of the institute of contemporary german studies.
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you highlighted "the development of a new strategic concept." one of the weaknesses of the 2020 strategic -- 2010 strategic concept is they were not able to recognize the threat to european states. president markel is calling for dialogue. i think this question is important because it brings us to the -- back to the divisions on values of representative democracy within the alliance. i want to end on that question. sec. gen. stoltenberg: i cannot tell you today what the language will be and the precise formulations will be in the new strategic concept, which will then start after the summit in a
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few days time. that will be a process where all allies will be involved. but i sense, and i know that there is very broad support in nato for what we referred to as the dual attractive approach to russia. we are very clear about the security consequences, the aggressive actions, which russia's is responsible -- is responsible for p to we have seen that in georgia, you could -- responsible for. we have seen that in georgia, ukraine and we have acted on that. we will continue to make sure we have credible deterrence on defense and we are investing more than we have done in many years in our defense. and in nato 2030, we also address the issue of investing more together. then, at the same time we believe with dialogue with
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russia, partly because we need to strive with a better relationship with russia. we are at a low point in our relationship with russia since the end of the cold where -- cold war, but we need to strive for better relationship with russia because russia is our neighbor, but even if we don't believe it is possible to have a better relationship with russia in the foreseeable future, we need to talk to them. we need to talk to them on issues like arms control, and we need to talk to them on how to manage a difficult relationship. for me, dialogue what russia is not a sign of weakness. it is a sign of strength. i referred to my own experience as the prime minister of norway. we talked to russia not in spite of nato, but because nato gives us the strength to sit down with the russians and talk with us on limitations on energy and many
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other issues. i cannot tell you exactly what allies will agree a year from now, but i am comforted josh cop -- confident in one way or another we will address many issues with our neighbor, russia, even though we disagree with them at the same time on many issues. and of course, we condemn what they do in ukraine and elsewhere. for me, this is about values, because russia they are an authoritarian power pit we see how they crackdown on their own opposition, try to poison opposition leaders, and how they also use force against neighbors, but no contradiction between a very clear understanding of the challenges
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russia approaches and at that -- poses committed the same had any down and talk. constanze: secretary-general, you have been extremely generous with your time, and very gracious in responding to my barrage of questions both from the viewers, my colleagues, and myself. i thought this was extremely informative. i thought it was fun. i hope it was useful for you, and i wish you all the very best for not just the upcoming summit, but for the choppy waters that lie ahead on all of these issues. i think we are lucky to have you as nato secretary-general, and i will just say this morning, to i so much to you and your staff for working for us today to do this event, and also to our partners from the german council on foreign relations. this has been great. thank you so much. and i do hope if there is a next
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time, it will be in person. too wet so much. sec. gen. stoltenberg: thank you. constanze:


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