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tv   Washington Journal Thomas Sanderson Discusses Homeland Security  CSPAN  September 11, 2017 2:08pm-2:46pm EDT

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>> and on hurricane irma, representative kathy castor retweeting a post from the hills brogue school district. when the sunomes up, our hills brogue schools team will be up too, we're in awe of our student nutrition tea feeding 28,000 evacuees. d this text, doctors, nurses and paramics awaiting takeoff on a c-17 before heading to orlando for hurricane irma respon. until the houseomes back, a look at the 9/11 attacks on this morning's ""washington journal." state of security, thomas sanderson, serves as the ansnational threat project.
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good morning. guest: well, i think we are fairly safe. it's difficult to know exactly how to measure that but the reality is we've not had a mar 9/11 style attack in the united states. we are able to deter folksrom doing that through the securities we have, the overseas partnershs that ovide intelligencfor us. we do have home grown violent extremists here and we have 100 people 100 people investig so there's not zero threat but we are managing . >> so the policy you spo about pvious, specifically what has worked? guest: well, certainly pushing security outward tour partners and improving the detection of people trying to come into the united states, cking up information on bomb
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plots by plots by al qaeda and the air ban pen ins la. detection atome. protection.border detecting individuals protectio. detecting individuals who have come iany number of ways. so those are the number of policies put protection. detecting individuals who have come in any number of ways. so those are the number of policies put in place, strength nd and they are working. cmission the 9/11 was formed one of the things they spoke about was this idea of stove piping of infmation. is that information sharing getting better among t the comm was formed one of the things they spo about was this idea of stove piping of information. is that information sharing getting better among t the departments here in the u.s.? guest: without a doubt. information sharing has improved greatly. you do he more than 250,000 employees at d.h.s. yohave tens of thousands of others across the law enforcement and intelligence communities relevant to homeland security but also our security overseas. it is never perfect. here are cultural differences,
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budgets. but we do have a patriots working inside our government anoutside our government and in law enforcement budgets. but we do have a culture of sharing. with do have a lot of ople dedicated who are at the local regional state triba level that are working together. again nothing perfect but we all understand the nure of the threat. host: thomas sanderson, our guest, here to talk about the security of the u.s. homeland urity. what's going on in europe, particularly when it comes to the threat there? what should the united states be mt concerned about? guest: we should be concerned about individuals in the united states copng what they've seen in europe, berlin, barcelona, london, multiiple lo cages. vehicle ramming.
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the late spokesman of isis, if you can't attack, if you can't to syria and iraq, attack with your foot, with a knife, a punch, a kick, a vehicle. so we've seen the art of the possible inside of europe. israel, for example, ere to syr individual with a car can ram people. you're never going to know until the last second. these individuals don usually , including sign probably 4-5,000 europeans under the visa waiver program and, can travel to the united states. that doesn't mean they want in without someone spotting them. and congress is looking at them. essential towards our
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economy and culture and faly ties but it is potential vulnerability with so many roans having gone to fight that sis and having passports. host: would you say it's icing? or not? what does that prove forhe u.s.? >> certainly isis is more decentralized as an organizaon. they pivoted before we took ici? or not? what does that mosu sources, individuals, has been prepositioned and set forth into europe. so those are the things that are alreadyut there. it is a deceralized threat theres still some control from leaders from groups we should be concerned about. buwe should remember that there mo terrorist attivity is about local battles. but we should all remain vigilant because bin laden said
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on llowers, don't focus europe focus on the united states. host: before your work, you rved as an instructer and onsultant on terrorists. thomas sanderson our guests. our first call for you from alabama. caller: good morning. i have a question about the ismi terrorist training camps that are in america and what is being done out that? guest: weli'm not aware of any specific training camps. forces l you that the
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do an excellent job of discovering any potential training forces do an facilities. of course we have had groups of individuals in the united states who engaged in their own they training where gathered one together did paint gathered one together did paint ball exercises, madelans, rvailed, provided counter ntelligence. i'm not sure if we have formal training camps at this point. host: tony in maryland. aller: good morning. you have another war fear mongering guy on there to i guess scare everybody again ince september 11. i'm very disappointed in you. i'm not one of these ones out here that believe that 9/11 was
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done by the people that you say did it. i just don't believe it. there's no evidence support it. here's plenty of evidence to support otherwise. the video of the pentagon does not look like a commercial aircraft. the plane that went down in shanksville does not look like there was anybody in at plane. d people are starting to come to an understanding of what really happened on that date. host: we invitedim on to talk with folks like you. est: i don't share your particular view. i think the evidence certainly has proven and is available that shows who did this, how they were supported. very exhaustive studies were done on this and investigations were done through multiiple
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agencies and nonvernment yl groups. so i think it's clear what happened. host: why do you think this persists, these ideas? >>ecause -- few reasons. one, there are individuals in the united states who do not trust our governmen number, because the united states has had relationships wi fighters in the past, many which then became part of al qaeda, that feeds this erhaps the that thi d states is behind are t the actual perpetrators. i think those are two of the key reasons. host: san diego is next. bruce. caer: with 9/11, think -- and it seems to be that ch this are not the actual perpetrators. i think those are two of the key
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tension is covering up destic terrorism. at is the state of that in terms of threats to the united stat i'm talking specifically noo nazis and kkk. guest: though this is the anniversary of 9/11 i do think ds appropriate to address the nazis, esented by noo kkk d other hateros. we saw what they're capable of doing in arlottesvie but we have many examples of the attas they have care rid out minorities in the united states so it is a signicant threat and inow that the f.b.i. an othe are looking at this. being ident it's pursued. idea of t about this
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recruitment? particularly as we know much more about how individuals commit these actually response? guest: recruitment is very difficult. it's hard for communities, family members, law enforcement and idea of recruitment? particularly as we know much more others to detect individua whose are radicalized. which is why counter intelligence is very important. unfortunately, grants for programming at homeland security have been pulled and that is one thing that i think is heading in the wrong direction. but as a country i think we do a pretty good job of detecting the that in most places. there are places where you have pockets of individuals who are not well integrated into american society. again, a safe haven for an individual is their own mind. it's very difficult to dete acvi. ny w d s conduct attacks talk about it with friends, with compatriots on line and the f.b.i. is often
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le to intervune he. weaiv a ming in that stimulate the minds of young meng who may feel minds of young meng who may feel marginalized. hostwas the decision to pull funds done by the administration? guest: yes. the funds are designed to detect radicalization, provide the kind of counseling, the kind of help that authorities can use to prevent young men and women to go to these groups. over 400 individuals in the united states have been inceleste gated, about 60 who have been arrested and prosecuted. t's about nine men to each woman. al
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host: bryan is next. guest: how many people from luzzmim countries have overstayed woman their visas and what are we doing linchtly from the 9/ point to this point? thank you very much. >> i don't know how my individuals have overstayed their visas from any religious group or ethnic group. and i'm not sure that we are going to be trying to detect ose numbers based on that criteria. their vas but it is clear that we have many people who areverstayed. muslims, christians, and all other relincolnance and we should be pursuing those individuals. ho:ashington, d.c., good morning. calling on republican line. you're next. me. just bear with
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i spent 20 years as a contracteror the f.a.a. i left as a senior principal ngineer. i beliedll the stuff on 9/11 until about five years later i came across some stuff and started doing my own investigation. i don't believe in some media thing. what i found was first of all planes can't fly into a 30 foot hole like they did in the pentagon. they seemed to have it cancal difficulties showing you that. there's a whole industry that's een built up around fear monging. they're getting big salaries. they shredded the bill of rights. it was an inside job. the organizations you're talking about, they did you find anyxplowives?
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>> no. >> did you look for explosives? >> no. >> all you have to do is look in thoseuildings. and the work is getting around are getting tired of the ar mongering. and they get the salary from this whole thing of are getting so-called terrorist groups down. host: ok. you made your point. est: i've been in 70 countries. i've interviews over a dozen militant groups. let me tell you there is nothing fake abouthe threat. it is real. i don't have his expertise with the f.a.a. but i don't sha the thought that this is an insi job. there are a nuer of threats that will continue to target us. host: he brought up the patriot
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act and surveillance. what's the lock it haveerm effect? >> certainly on raffle's side individual, feel they have less privacy but feel we're savor. yo don't want to trade that in today there have are some tradeoffs. just like at the airport w allow ourselves toe checked. we do that in order to fly safely. so the patriots act has done a number of things that areood d s erodesome of our liberties. we struggle today bot today dom and threats but largely foreign and the need to protect oursels and the others who get on mro, get on a ship, get into a car, walk into a
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building. those are concerns we want to think about. host: you can find his book at the hill website. stems from the barcelona attacks. guest: the point is if you do not share information and do it effectively that you could end up getting bitly. however, when it comes to attacks from spain, spain struggles with mtiiple sources of energies. and the c.i.a. did send them information about potential attacks in barcelona but that been one than a hundred pieces of informatn that caminhaweek, that moh. wre just don't know. it's beeone than a hundred pieces of infoation har spanish because it's hard to prove this. thers good information, it's
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not as good. the cultural differences, the differences.ega privaclaws. and even within countries, bellingm has risen by so man different differences. privacy organizations. host: missouri. al, go ahead. caller: i wish he woultell the truth. we've been sin 19r6. reagan started that war. and they know reagan started that war and they're notoing to tell the uth. we've been in pakistan since he 86 and he needs to te the truth. thank you. host: my comment is the is one of our most difficult partners truth. in the battle against terrorism. pack stahas enable militant groups but they are also
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partners of ours pursuing militant groups. and violent extremist groups can help achve those goals. but pakistan dupts aot. they are not the only country like that. the are countries w have been the source of the ideology. saudi arabia. also provides us with intellence on the threats. that list goes on and on where e have imperfect partners. host: jim, go ahead. caller: i just want to say that think it's so digs respectful to call in to this program a talk about conspiracy theories those people, those thousands of people's lives who were touched by the tragedy. for anyone to believehat our government, our country somehow conspired to do something so trag and so terrie, it's
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just sick. it's sick to think that way. and believe ose thing that's really al i have to say about it. i just think those families knees to know there are -- need to know there are those of us who have the respect to know what was paid by those people. th's about all i have to say about it. guest: thank you. i appreciate those thoughts. and on the annivsaryf 9/11 those are ever important. these stheeries are not founded. this would be an outrageous thing for our governnto do. it would also be an extremely difficult for the government to have succeeded in doing. host: two times the president has tried to impose se type of travel ban. talkbout what the president's proposal is. what do you think the effectivelyness would be? guest: we've seen the challenges and the they are significant from nurl of
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courts, a number of parties who are challenging the president to be able to say a certain group of individuals is not allowed in the united states it is not effective. we have individuals inside this country who are not musli we ave individuals threating to come inside who are not mli part of this is clearly political and economic in its tone and in its makeup. it is not a wise policy. st: one is to allow e government to improve the process of vetting. what is thaturrent process? guest: the curre standard for vetting is extraordinary. you come in here as a refugee, it is very, very difficult for you to get through that pcess. it's many, manmonths long. we have an excellent sndard for that.
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and that is not the issue here. this is a political issue. from pittsburgh, pennsylvaniamarianne on our republican line. good morning. caller: i would like to know about the from f.b.i. agent tha caught in texas to one of the terrorist attacks that happened in texas. billion t the $3.2 equment military iven to someone. she's referring to this woman whworked at the f.b. who consorted with a known terrorist. i don't know many details about o this woman that but i do know that she was caught. that she did cooperate, provided information to the f.b.i. of course after having been caught.
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and i don't know much of details bend that. but that but i that is very frighte marianne is right bring that up. to have someone in the f.b.i. doing that is scary. is immune. in the equipment, i believe she's talking about the trump ministration's reversal of providing excess military departments police which president obama curtailed sharply after what had happened er the last couple of years with departments which respect toxcessive lice force against civilians. i do think it isangerous t put into hands of a police department military grade equipment. there are specialized teams who require specializedaterials. but th've always had those for some time. i think nd to be careful abou providing military style
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weapons that he are designed to welfare by p departments in situations. host: the proct director for the threats program. nd served at the defense intelligence agency's office of counter terrorism from 1998 to 2002. what is that program? guest: sure. let me clarify. i woed intellence for a contracter called science international corporation. i joined them right after gradte school to looat factors and indicators that would warn us that terror groups were going from onventional weapons to weapeds . that was my --eapons of mass deruction. thast my main client or customer. what we did is we looked at the three main instances of the use of wmd in the past. that was the armed forces, use
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of color reingas. t was a small cult that used salad bars.n can i don't know if you remember that incident. to poison individuals and sicken them. so we looked athose as well as aurl of things, social science literature. his is opened source and classified to he determine when ailitant group would make those connections. classified to help determine when do they start, when they gin tosolate, when they engage in group think, where they can dispers a certain level of guilt. so it did that for four years and provided insights on what those factors andndicators may be. host: what were your thoughts then on 9/11 aut the use of aircraft? guest: we were not looking at aircraft. my team wa not looking at aircraft at the time but i'm
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certain individual were. and concerned about that possibility. had been raised in studies before both government and nongovernment that aircraft uld be used like this. of course aircrafts have been targeted in the air. n am 103, air india, lots of times. but n a lot tald intoeing turned into cruise missiles. that was the innovation of the part of al qaeda and today remains a threat. aircraft are tier 1 target, highly visible, the impact on the economy and on e psyche and on the moral of e country would ha been profound if they were torike againhat way. host: because now do you think that could be repeated? guest: it would be very difficult to get fo individuals on board to take over the aircraft because of the doors on the cock pit. getting a bomb on board we've
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seen that's possible. we saw in egypt with the aircraft, in somali in other placeses where thahas happened. in raugs it has happened a couple of times. so getting individuals to take over the aircraft to then use its a cruise missile. that seems to me nr possible. but getting in, how much is that difficu? host: go ahead. caer: thank you for answering my call. i'm calling about this 9/11 situation. it's feasible for the government to do ts. remember operation northwood, the kennedy administration. lind b. johnson. is 9/11 thing started from 1991 or before when george w.
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bush senior tried to take over raush and the coalition ended up in 2011. nd he had two $240 billion ecurities needed to be cleared oneptember 12. host: thank you. guest: i don't share your view on the conspiracy element of this that the government w in on this. it's certaintly true that our government that essentially any government on the planet today has engaged in pretty awful activities. but this is way beyond the pail. and that would be outgeous to kill that many people just is not true and did not happen. in just a few moments we will take you to the moment of silence that yo have been seeing leading up to that. until then our conversation
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with thomas sanderson will take plac we'll palk for a moment to tch the wte house ceremony and then resume our conversation. john this is dan in independence oregon. caller: i wanted to ask the person, the last five years in the unid states, how many innocent people have been killed by terrorists and how many innocent people have been killed by e police. thank you. est:ion the exact numbers how many people have been kill in the last fiv yrs by terrorist incidents anby police. but certainly my guess is that the number by poli is much igher than by terrorism. creates an inordinate
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amount of fear but it is that ability to generate that fear that is so awful. of course we have seen a lot of violence on the part of some police offers in this country and the number are pretty high. i don't know the numbers and can'help you with createsn inor amount the comparison. ho: john is next. caller: thank you for what you do and what your orgization does. i'm so happy to -- tha the president called these people they are. that i think basically they were referred to as cowards. from whoever bombed oklahoma. and they are. i thin don't be grossed out by this but these people don't like pigs. right? they should be buried in a pig plter. we could tell them we use them in footbal and the old one we're going to by them in as far as the ones who cmit suicide. they kill these people. theyhould never be referred
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to as anything but cowards. and that willtick with them. guest: well, i share your view that they shld be called cowards. i do not agree with aociating heir dths as pigs. these people are awful. overseas we have an aggressive poure, with special operions, with drones, with strike aircraft, but i want to point out that count terroris counter insurgency demand much more tn what is referred to as kinetic activity. weill not achieve durable relief untile
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deal with this. there are a whole range of things that we need to do that we are not doing that this government is not serious about dog. we have no rourced those efforts. i ar this from intelligence officers, special operations officers, folks across government, left right and middle. we are not doing the serious efrthat we need to do to reduce the threat. is not just bbing. were very good at that. >> what's on the top of the liffs? st: encouraging strongly and doing as much as we can to foe od goveness from overseas. trng to reduce sectarianism. religious and iological radicalization. socio economic huge. a lotf e young men are on
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the sidelines, reduced in tir life in joining extreme nt extremt groups. it gives them a seps of purpose, dignity, and respent. these are thing that is they lack at home often in repressive regimes. but in democratic socties too. out re's a big deficit there. then radical preachers and then radical preachers and individuals manipulate that neeth. host: so, yeah. then radical preachers and individuals manipulate that neeth. host: , yeah. host: what's the best way to minister this? gut: engaging these countrie where you find this happening and where you find the numbers so high. tunisia, for example, saudi arabia, rdan. and these arallies of rs but they're large numbers of individuals coming from ese countries joining these groups.
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and its about being better at goveance, to protecting your citizens. my colleague often says that when we look counter terrorism. we need to lk at the stes who are terrorizing theirwn people. and we need to use thleverage we have to push policies that improve job making, job production, good in gornance but reduced levels of cpping. host: we're a few moments away from observing the moment of silence. caller: i just want to tell mr. sanderson thank you for prenting facts. it sens my heart that so many people in america believe in conspicy theories. again,hank you so ve much for psenting the facts. i really
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>> specific policies are overseas with rard to being able toeize the asss famloifs terroris. i do know in some countries they round up the entire family and that, unfortunately, can gerate me terrorist activity as you radicalize youngen and girls when you use that sort of
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olale approach and that is esent in so many cntes where i've don research. but i don't think in the united states that would do that here. >> thomas anderson will remain with us as we go to thehite house to observe the moment of silence.
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ms. huckabee sanders: good afternoon. this -- this morning we had the honor of joining the president at the pentagon to observe the anniversary of september 11 with the families andurvivors of the horrific attack our homeland that ok the lives of 2,977 ofheir brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, husbands, and wives 16 years ago. the lives of those survivors and fami

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