tv Amy Mc Grath Kathy Stearman CSPAN January 22, 2022 2:00pm-2:47pm EST
and succeeding in male-dominated professions. and i can show you how you look like. good morning everyone. good morning. good morning. good morning and welcome to the kentucky book festival uk mainstage. my name is maya barber and i'm a sophomore at uk studying vocal performance at first guest a native edgewood. kentucky was the first female
marine to fly a combat mission in the fa 18 her childhood was shaped by love of country baseball and from the age of 12 a fascination with fighter jets, please welcome amy mcgrath oh. our next guest spent more than 26 years as a special agent with the fbi in today's your recounts some of the global experiences that shaped her life, please welcome kathy stearman. so can yes, you can hear me i can tell you can hear me. so amy is going to let me ask the first question and i think you all are going to love it. but first of all, i just want to say to you amy. thank you for everything that you've done for our country for your service and for all that you've done for young women who follow you and all those little
girls who can look at amy and and not ask the question. will i be able to do that? will i be able to fly that fa 18 those little girls can say no i can do that and that's because of amy. so give her a big hand for that. thank you. so my first question is this for me and for i would say most people in this room. we are never going to fly an fa 18, right? probably the closest we're ever going to come is watching the new tom cruise movie where he's not really flying the plane. so i really want to know an amy touched on this a little bit in her book about what it's like to fly an fa 18. i want to know more i want to know how that feels viscerally. did it feel like you just want to like scream and you want to bomb it does your stomach want to just come out of your throat?
tell us what it's like i want to know. all right. well, first of all, thank you for that kind of introduction and before i get into telling everybody about what it's like to fly in fa team. i want to say something very briefly about kathy. okay who spent a life of service to our country well in the fbi? when all around the world did some very dangerous things for us. and also was a trailblazer for me. because you know women in the 1980s and early 90s that went into these fields were not necessarily accepted. and kathy when you read her book, you will see just how hard it was for her and it was people like kathy that literally opened the doors for people like me. and so i appreciate you and and thank you and it's an honor to be standing next to you today,
but what it's like to fly an f-18. i always tell people number one. you don't have a lot of time to stop and smell the roses. okay, it's not like you're up there and you're just you know, yippee. i can't, you know cowboy stuff. you're very intense. you're constantly thinking you're constantly working. i always tell people it's like imagine playing a soccer match and how physically difficult that is while doing math problems. in your head and doing a radio interview at the same time. all at the same time when you get out of the jet you literally open the hatch of the of the cockpit. and you walk out and you're completely drenched. have you ever walked out of a like an ace? it's called the sat or the act and your brain is just fried. that's what it's like after you fly a combat mission.
that and your and your body is completely just you know, it's like walking off the soccer field or off a basketball court after playing a game. and it's exhilarating. it's wonderful. i would say it's the best job on the face of the earth because it's it's it so challenging in your mind and in your body and the best part of it is when you're you do a training mission and you fly into like las vegas, you know, international airport and you pull right up next to like matthew mcconaughey's private jet. and he he walks out of his jet and you pop the cockpit and you're like, yeah, man. my -- is better than yours. that's the best part but that's always. that's always after you've done your mission when you're when you're training or when you're in the cockpit. it's extremely intense, and there's not much time to think. that's awesome. i think one of the most awesome things that you just said is the fact that you can look over at matthew mcconaughey and say i am
way cooler than you will ever be dude. um, but i want to kathy and i have a lot in common because we both grew up here in kentucky. we both left home and went into very male-dominated sort of environments and careers in national security and we've lived in some of the same places alexandria, virginia went through training at quantico, but we both had this dream at a very young age, and i wanted to ask you because you talk about it a little bit in your book. how did that come about you? you sort of knew. that while you sort of like, kentucky. you knew deep down you wanted something else. can you talk about that? you know, i have to say as a little girl i grew up on a big farm, but i discovered the rest of the world through books. and to me books are everything i learned through books that
there's there's something else. there's a lot more out there and i was determined to see it. so, um stories that they take me to other places and i think that that's really what gave me the adventurous bug and for some reason probably my mom watching her and the fact that she didn't have many choices. i mean she grew up in a time when she had there were no choices and i wanted to have choices in my life. so i was determined that i was going to do something that other women didn't get to do that other women didn't really want to do and i ended up applying to the fbi and the secret service and the cia and i was going to apply to the state department, but i just missed the the testing date because i had been told that you know working for our government and i did grow up very patriotic because my father was in world war ii. and he didn't talk about it, but
i distinctly remember my father saying this long before. it became a catch phrase in the last few years freedom is not free. and there's another thing that my father did that really made me think and i always think about it when i watched the tv series band of brothers one of the best tv series ever and the main character he's standing at night and after it's just been a horrific day and he says i want to find myself a quiet little farm one of these days and just watch things grow and it hit me so hard because my father said that same thing once when i was, you know, i should you know, daddy why didn't you say in hawaii after the war which is where he was stationed. he goes i wanted to find a quiet place where i could watch things grow and that really hit me because i knew that that was his patriotism talking. but at the same time it's what he wanted. and so i grew up with that
feeling of being a patriot and which is why that i ended up with a government agency. so in a nutshell, that's it and you have when you read her book, you'll see she has so many amazing stories from her training from being all around the world, india and china and they're so the stories are so detailed. so my question to you is like did you have a journal? like how did you remember all that stuff? no, actually most of the work that i did was classified so i couldn't keep notes, but i did write down like words and phrases like don't forget the monkey story and things like that, but i have a pretty good memory. so if i had just had a word or a phrase to jog my memory then that's how i ended up, you know writing the book which brings me to a chapter in my book. it's the very first one and it's called the foot and in the foot i'm talking about being in sri lanka and i'm working on a
suicide bomber case and the suicide bomber was a woman. and my thought was what did she believe in so much that she was willing to die for it and at the end? i asked the question. what is it that we what is it that i what is it that each one of us? believes in so much that we would die for it and so a recent interview. someone said well, are you advocating suicide bombers? i said? no. that's not what i'm asking what i'm saying is what do you believe in? you know, like all the people who went out and marched for the right for women to vote and all the people who marched for civil rights when they walked out their doors. they didn't know that they were going to come back. they had no idea if they were going to be killed in the process and then it hit me. we asked our military to go do the same thing. we asked our soldiers to walk out the door and go fight for
something that they believe in or we believe in so my question for you amy is how did you to resolve that within yourself when you knew you were going on a combat mission did you think about am i going to come back or did you just go knowing that you had to go fight for something that you believed in? i i think for me. to fly fighter jets and to be in aviation aviation in the military is an inherently dangerous job whether you're at war or whether you're in peace and if if you're the kind of person that wants to into that field. you have to sort of make peace with that early on. in training as you know, i have lost friends. and most of my friends who have lost along the way folks were not lost in combat.
only a couple two or three of the of the ten friends of mine who are no longer with us. most of them were killed in aviation mishaps. and when you look at that you realize that you know, some of that is none of it was you know their fault. it was just they were in the wrong place the wrong time and in you know, the machine didn't work and we're doing really really dangerous stuff and it's something that you you recognize very in the very beginning and you're like, you know, not everybody wants to do this, but our country needs people to do it. and i'm willing to do it and if i'm if i'm gonna lose my life in the process then you know. i did it for the right reasons. and and i feel like i look back on that time in my life. and that's what i've always felt. obviously you never you never want that to happen.
but but it's something you make peace with early on. you know. i wanted to ask you about. a little bit about your training because i alluded to it at the beginning when when we first spoke that you were going through training in a very male-dominated environment in the 1980 late 1980s. and there were people when you read a book you're gonna realize that there were people that literally tried to sabotage. her training because she was a woman and i never experienced that. i mean i knew even in the marine corps there were lots of people that didn't want me there but i can't ever say that somebody like actually tried to sabotage my training actually like tried to make me fail and i was wondering if you could talk about that and the reason i bring that up is because i feel like there's even a difference in one decade because i went through training in the 1990s. kathy went through training in
the 1980s and even having one decade more of integration of women. into some of these fields, i believe you may disagree but i believe has actually changed. some of how you know, our federal agencies have worked. because things have were better and i actually think things are better now for women than they were in the 80s and 90s. so i just wanted if you could reflect on that. um, the chapter that amy's talking about is my my first experience in the fbi was my firearms instructor at quantico. he changed the sights on my gun so that i couldn't hit the target and i knew what he had done. i mean i up in, kentucky. and i kept telling him that my sites were off. he's like no, no steering. you just can't shoot you might as well. just leave walk out now. and so being from kentucky i knew all about kentucky windage and with that and the help of a west virginia state trooper who stood behind me and told me
where all my shots were going. i was able to get through it, but that was my first experience in the fbi and i think over the years the fbi has evolved. to a certain extent but unfortunately one of the things that made me realize that when i was writing this book that i was on the right path was i saw in the new york times where there were 15 or 16 women who had filed a lawsuit. this was in 2019 had filed a lawsuit against the fbi because their firearms instructors at quantico were trying to sabotage their training. 2019 so i thought to myself has it changed really i mean has it. yes, there are more women in leadership positions, but i think that there's in the fbi. it's it's still inherently male-dominated. and you know, i think that unfortunately a lot of the negative media that the fbi is
getting is warranted, especially when it comes to those young women those young gymnasts who went to the fbi to talk about their sexual assault and they were ignored. i personally think and this is just my opinion. it's not the opinion of the fbi. they were ignored because they were young women. so what i do now, i have gotten so many emails from young women who'd want to join the fbi. so this is what i say to them. you go into the fbi you do not let it change you you change it and the more women and minorities that go into the fbi then the more it's going to change because as you said in the book amy, you said you said it so well, let me find it. you basically said when men see women in these organizations and in the positions that they're in then they will basically realize that women aren't minorities women can do the job and i'm
paraphrasing here. you said it so much better, but that is so true. what amy said was so true and what i tell young women is the truth more women more minorities need to be in the marines need to be in the military need to be in the fbi and as more women bring their influence into the organization, it will change it will stop being such a misogynist male oriented organization. so i say to all young women if you want to do this go for it if you want to be a marine if you want to fly a jet go for it. and don't let it change you you change the narrative. so one of the things that we've both talked about in our books is our mothers. and the influence that our mothers had on us and you knew really early on the influence that your mother had on you. i mean you saw her every day and you were so awed by her.
i on the other hand didn't really understand. everything that my mother had given me until i was an adult but i'm really fortunate and that the last several years of her life. i got to spend time with her and i got to know who she was as a person not just my mom somebody i expected to be there when i walked in the door who said you want a sandwich that was my mom, but i got to know who she was and what her dreams were and so i would like to ask you. tell me about that influence that your mother had on you. but then part of that question is you have a daughter. she's five, right? do you? do you want to tell her everything that you've done and everything that you've accomplished or do you want that influence for her to happen organically like it did with your mother? probably organically, you know, i i my mother was a physician
and went through medical school at the university of kentucky in the 1960s one of the first women to graduate from medical school in the university of kentucky at that time. and so i knew that about my mother growing up and i was very proud of her, but i didn't really know how much of an influence she had on other people until she got an award. i was about 11 12 years old and this was in the city of cincinnati. so we went across the river and she accepted an award and she got up in front of a group which is probably like four or five times the size of this group and gave an acceptance speech and here i am a preteen i went to the very back. and by myself and just watched and this woman came up next to me. and said to me your your dr. mcgrath's daughter, aren't you? she was probably late 30s early 40s. and i looked at her and i said, yeah. and she said i want you to know
something your mother saved my life. and you ought to be really proud of your mom. she's she's really special and you're really special to be her daughter. and it was that to me was the first time that i ever really realized. wow, you know and and so growing up my mother did have a big influence on me and later on when when i went into the marine corps and did these things and in in i usually was the only woman in my squadron or in my units and certain things would happen and i would call mom. you know like this happened mom what the f you know what i do about it. and insulation of you worried and what how do i get through this in? my mom would be like they did the same thing to me back in the 60s. just forget about it move on. you know, so my mother helped me.
be all along the way even as an adult because she had been through what you know going in that male-dominated environment in 1960s of the medical profession. i was able to basically just plow through some things that that may have stopped others because mom was just like yes, no big deal. just move on water off the ducks back kind of thing. and she today still has a huge influence and with my daughter. you know one of the things i loved about both my parents is they they never made fun of me. you know, i went to a catholic school. um girls did certain things and didn't do other certain things. and they never said to me that that's a dream that is not for you. and that's kind of the way i want to be for for both my boys and girls no matter what they decide to. do, you know to be behind them. so i want to get into some some
good. hard questions and a little bit, but i have just a couple technical ones because if you guys are like me when i read kathy's book the first thing that i thought was fbi why on earth is the fbi overseas like aren't they domestic? right, and so i wanted to know if you could touch on why the fbi is even overseas and then then it occurred to me. i was like, well do i even really know what counter espionage is and all this stuff. so i was wondering if you could define that for people because you did that. and and then also talk about in your book the process that the fbi did with taking certain things out of your book because i had to go through a similar process. you should know with mine through the department of defense where they look at it and they say, okay you have revealed classified information so you can't say this. now i didn't have they didn't strike anything out of my book,
which is great, but you must have gone through something similar because you have some black lines in there. so can you talk about that? um to answer that first, there are some redactions in my book and because i wrote a nonfiction book the fbi pre-publication unit has to review it. they have to read everything and then if they have any questions and then they have to send it to like a certain unit to say, hey, it's just classified. so mine had to go to counterintelligence and counter espionage because that's what i was referring to. so the things that have been marked out of my book aren't classified. they said that to me they're like, look it's not classified, but the general public doesn't necessarily need to know it and some of it i thought was just silly because it's like blank director david petraeus. cia director, it's like they marked out cia and i said well, why are you doing that? the letter cia are everywhere and they said well. if you have the letter cia in your book, then the cia has to
review your book and that could add months. to your publication so like yeah. okay, forget i'll just leave it there. but anyway, um, and i'll make this quick because it's it's a much longer answer the fbi is overseas and over 70 offices. we are all based in the us embassies throughout the world. and most people don't know that we're overseas and what the fbi does is if there is a nexus to an investigation here in the united states and it has a nexus to say china, which is one of the places i was stationed then i'm the person who works with the chinese government. to get that information or evidence or whatever they need and get that back to the united states so we can do our investigation and vice versa if the chinese have an investigation i help them with that. so you're the fbi the legal attache. the head of the office that's generally what you're doing. you are it's more of a liaison position although in some we got offices and in the ones i
covered if there is a case or a terrace bombing which happened in a couple of the places. i covered if the foreign government wants the fbi to help with their investigation. they make a formal request of me and i go to the director of the fbi and then if it is warranted then we send people over to that country and we help them with their investigation and also if there's a terrorist attack overseas and americans are killed then that is the fbi's jurisdiction the fbi investigates it so that's pretty much what the fbi does oversees counterintelligence counter-espionage. we are looking for spies. that's what we do the way we look for spies in the united states and i like to say that the fbi looks for spies. we hunt down the spies and the cia they make spies. so in a nutshell, that's pretty
much it. thanks. um now one of the things that in your book you talk about shear training that is survival evasion resistance and escape and amy went through seer training, which by you know comparison fbi academy training is like a cakewalk. but you say in your book that on page 167 the goal. when you get captured you become like a pow during seer so the goal was only to resist until you can't resist any longer instructors were adamant that we were to come home alive with honor. so my question is because i thought about this and especially in the last few years. john mccain has been called a loser because he was captured because he was a plw and then i think too that sometimes the public looks at soldiers who are captured and there.
or forced to read a statement on tv you're in a camera and it's a lie, and we all know it's alive but yet sometimes when those soldiers come home they may be perceived as a loser like john mccain, which he obviously was not or that they were weak forgiving in and so could you speak to that because i think the public really misunderstands this concept as to what a soldier is meant to do if they are captured. sure. well first of all. you know if you're if you're if it's unfortunate enough that you are captured a shot down that is not necessarily your fault. you you are probably somebody who you know, we're just doing their job and you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. and so to call anybody just for being shot down or captured a loser is just absolutely insane. but i think one of the things that they train you to do and
survival school as an american is it doesn't help our country once you're captured to die in captivity. okay, it doesn't help us it doesn't help the war effort if you come back in a body bag. so the goal is to survive. yes. you don't want to give away state secrets. but uncle sam doesn't want you to die. they want you to survive. you're not helping the war effort anymore. you're captured. so do what you can to survive do it with honor and that means, you know, you're not you're not. doing everything that the enemy wants you to do. but if the enemy is torturing you to the point where you will die. then survive. our country will be okay with that. that's what they trained to do and they do it in the really hard school called survival school, which is just about one of the hardest things i've ever
done. because it involves lack of food and lack of sleep and physical contact and a lot of different types of abuses and when i went through survival training i was the the senior officer. going through and i'll talk about that in my book and the senior officers going through do not get treated the best they get treated the worst. and it was it was definitely an eye-opening experience, but one of the things that i loved about john mccain and one of his last talks that he gave was at the us naval academy right before he passed away. and somebody asked him. about honor and what that meant? you know, he was a prisoner of war for many many years and they the north vietnamese offered to get him out early because his dad was an admiral. and they said, you know you we can we can get you out months or years before you'll basically
cut the line of all the other prisoners that were releasing what you'll cut the line you'll get in front. and he said no. that's honor that's honor right there. he stayed as a prisoner of war for many many years because the rule was that the other prisoners who were there longer got out first. you know and he said when when asked why did you do that? he said why could have gotten out i may have died in captivity. but i've if i had gotten out early. how would i have been able to live the rest of my life? i would have lived the rest of my life with no honor. and that is what they teach you there and that's that's what i learned and it's something that really was ingrained. it's it's one of the reasons. i stood up and run ran for political office. because i felt like i had to do something. i had to try.
so so i hope more people read nancy's amy's book because you actually show people if you're captured you're appeal w and you do what you need to do to survive. that's a sign of strength. it's not a weakness and i really hope that more people get that message from you, and i don't know how we can make that more prevalent out in the public because right now i think we are so divided that that opinion that perception is still out there and i really hate to see it and i hate to hear it and i know that you do too. kathy and amy if you don't mind we'd like to give the audience a chance to ask a few questions for five or ten minutes. that's all right, if anybody's got a question if you'll raise your hand, i'll bring the microphone to you. anybody has a question. don't be shy it's all good. i'll just start by asking amy.
what's the most common question that people ask you that you think they know already but it's surprises you every time when they ask. the most common question that people ask me now. yes. are you gonna run again? and and i'm in a supporting role at this point. so i'm i'm i want to help others. help our country. so it's i guess it's not surprising but i don't know. what would you say? what's the most surprising question that people ask you? why did you write your book? that's the question i get asked the most it's not tell me what's in the book. tell me about being in the fbi. it's like why did you write it? and i think that's because if you look at these bookshelves, you'll see all kinds of books written by male fbi agents. there's only been one other female agent who retired as an agent and that will was over 20
years ago so you don't see books written by female agent. so maybe that's why i don't know. we have a question right here. hi amy. my daughter is in the rotc where she goes to school if you could give her some advice, what would you tell her? she an army or navy army. awesome that's great. i would tell her stick with it. there's going to be good days. there's going to be bad days. just she's gonna look back and never regret it. that's what i would tell her. i i see you coming. i'm coming. right here. pardon me? if you'll stand up, please. so i've read your book kathy and of course, i love it, but i have a question what and this is just piddly but why do they call that position leg get it sounds like
you have to be a lawyer. so can you explain that a little bit? that is a question that every legat has asked fbi headquarters since the legal attaché offices were open. um the department of justice actually sends attaches over to embassies as well and they are called the i don't know. doj attache or something like that. and so the fbi said well, we send attaches over they have to have a different name so they came up with legal attache which makes no sense whatsoever because it still sounds like you are and we are from the doj, but we're not from the same unit as the other attaches are from and a lot of us. we got we actually went to headquarters and said can we change the name? it confuses everybody and then headquarters is like nats too much trouble. you're gonna have to change this change that change that paperwork. it's too much trouble too much time too much money.
it'll take years blah blah. so that government efficiency at its best this next question comes from everybody who enjoys books. what are your next projects in terms of books? do you both have one in the works? um, i do plan to write books some more books. but i would like to write about obscure women from history women that we don't know about and i want what i want especially women to know about so i actually have a short list of women that i've discovered in my travels and in my my work like, who is this one? i've never heard of her, so i want to write about those women because i want people to realize that our history. was built by women not just men and so writing about me was one thing writing about another woman is another literally another story.
so i've actually started an mfa in creative nonfiction so that i could learn the craft of writing nonfiction about other people because it's totally different than writing about yourself. so i don't i don't have any projects as far as a book in the recent it. this year or next but but i do like to write and i write a lot of op-eds i write when there's a spark. all right, so january 6th. i actually wrote not only an op-ed, but i took my manuscript and i rewrote the last chapter so i scrapped the last chapter. i had it all in to the publisher and everything and then january 6 happened, and i said, nope. we're not we're not getting it printed yet. i got to rewrite this thing. so there when i when i see a spark that's when i go out there and i have written like three or four op-eds that have been published nationally usa today
newsweek etc this year and you usually it's about current events, or i'm trying to tie some of my experience in credibility into talking about certain things that are happening in our country. so i do like to write but as far as a new book project, i don't know i got to think about that i get these three little kids that are taking up like all of my time and they are amazing, but but i've been focused on coaches soccer and and baseball lately. we have a couple more questions right here. hello, i'd like to ask either or both of you. all. what do you all think we can do to stop the division in the united states? okay. i think that. what we can do individually. number one we can inoculate
ourselves a little bit against disinformation. and try to help others that we know. get inoculated from disinformation and i look at this and i look at it very much as a national security concern our enemies are looking at what is happening in our country and the disinformation that is dividing us and that is exactly what they are trying to push. and it's working. so never in my lifetime, would i have ever thought our capital would be breached. it hadn't been since 1814? and we did it to ourselves. so i feel like that that is something we can do that and you know, everybody sort of wants to look at it politics and and sometimes i do too and want to raise up my hands. they there's nothing i can do. i'm watching the news and it's all crazy. but there is something you can do and that is not give up. and it's more than just voting. you love our country right now.
you have to do more than just vote you. and whether it is is supporting a candidate that you like that believes in the values that that you have. maybe it's supporting somebody that's not here in this state. maybe it's supporting someone else. why is that so important it's about our country. so i always try to tell people you can't just sit this one out if you're a patriotic american. you've got to stick, you know, stay involved and and support in any way you can that's what i would say and i would like to add to what amy said about this being a national security issue and it is a national security issue. having lived and worked in china and china has been my particular area of expertise for almost 30 years. while we are eating ourselves from within with our division, they are thrilled the chinese are quietly going around the world and they are getting allies and they are they are
buying up a raw materials and they're loving the fact that we are destroying ourselves from within so that's what we have to stop. it's a national security issue and instead of you know fighting with each other and not trying to understand how the other person thinks across the aisle. we need to start understanding each other better and coming to some way that we can work together as a country again because if we don't china circling and that to me is our biggest threat. amy and kathy we have time for one more question. actually, i have a two-part question first part is what was an example of where your trailblazing in your particular organizations whether it was the military or the fbi caused males
to respect you as a result of your example and the second part of the question is what can males do to better understand and be able to connect with trailblazers in their organizations who are female or other cultures today. can you can you just repeat the first question again for us? yes, what was an example of where males? were able to recognize and perhaps better respond to females and perhaps other cultures as a result of your trailblazing. exactly. okay. so the question was, you know, give us some examples of when males were able to accept and respond to you know, you and
your career i could tell you that and this isn't true for all women in the military. okay, but i had my experience in the military was fabulous we have yeah, but there were some there were some jerks. okay, there's no doubt. but by and large what i found with how men respected you is when i what i loved about the military was performance mattered. can you put the can you put the bomb on the target on time? you can't mess with that the target's gone. yeah, take a look. it's gone. you know, can you land the 70 million dollar jet on the back of an aircraft carrier in at night in bad weather? hey, brother, i did it. can you do it? nobody else is in the cockpit with me. and so that once once you've done some of these things can
you make it through survival school as the senior reporting officer the senior officer the one that gets beat up the most? hey, man, i did it. can you do it? and so when you when you've done these things the men who are your peers are like, yeah, man. she's for real. the men who are your superiors? are harder to change because they have never had women peers. and it's not that they're bad people. and it's not that you know, it's just that they have never trained with a woman. they have never had that experience of going the 20 mile hike with the same pack right next to you their whole careers. they've been with men so they always in the back of their are not quite sure. but your peers that you train with you they get it and then when you rise into leadership positions, you can change the dynamic of the culture when i
first went into my my first fighter squadron, and i talked about this in book, you know, there was a lot of antics a lot of locker room stuff. you can read about it. it's interesting. um when i came back at a higher rank. guess what? none of that stuff happened? i wonder why because now i'm the one in charge. and what we found out about that was the guess what the bomb still hit the target on time. the jets didn't turn pink. we still did our jobs and we did our jobs without all of that --. and we did it better. and so that's that's my lesson to folks who are integrating women in in corporations in businesses and agencies is that you can still be very professional all of the antics. and performance matters i agree i think for my career as i progressed up the ladder with a
couple of exceptions exceptions with my peers when i progress up the ladder, that's when i encountered men who didn't want me to be there. and so like amy said in her book. when more women are in those positions, then men will start to look at women and go. okay. well now we're accustomed to seeing women in these positions. they can do their job. they do do their job. they do it well and then all of that other nonsense will go away, but i would like to say i'm pretty down with the pink jet. because that'll throw the russians in the chinese off. thanks everybody. thank you. all right. thanks for coming. thanks for reading books. i have to say it. it's awesome. and thanks for being kentuckians. you guys are great. anyway, i want everybody to read this book if you see on my tabs. this is how many questions i wanted to ask amy today?
and i knew i would never get to them so i had to pick out a few so i'm telling you this book is awesome read it and then i'm sure there's a way they can get in touch with you to ask their own questions. thank you all for joining us this morning in a very special. thank you to miss amy and miss kathy. i'm coming up next at 11:30. join us as brian kilmeade takes the stage. enjoy the kentucky book betweenm lincoln and frederick douglass. now in our next presenter's book, he tells the little known story of how two american heroes moved from strong disagreement to friendship and how that process changes the entire course of history. i am pleased talking to the stage new york times the best-selling author and fox news host mr. brian kilmeade.