tv Senators Examine Job Training Programs CSPAN October 27, 2021 8:21am-10:05am EDT
>> send it employment workplace safety subcommittee can come to order. settle down out there. today we are holding a hearing on getting america ready to wear. looking at successful on-the-job apprenticeship training programs to help workers and businesses remain competitive in the global economy. i look forward to today's witness testimony on the discussion that follows. the ranking member and i each have an opening statement and we will introduce the witnesses after the witnesses give their testimonies. senators will have five minutes for a round of questions. we will have senators coming and going. who knows how any millions of people are watching, eventually on recorded video. we are unable to have the hearing fully open, live video is available on our website at
help. senate.gov. i have both invited members outside the subcommittee for today's hearing. i look forward to them being a part of this conversation as well and building a bipartisan coalition to address some of the challenges we face in building tomorrow's workforce. as we consider investments in education and workforce we need to keep in mind that not everyone is going to go to college. they don't need to go to college to be successful. some people go to college at different times. only 35% of young people in the united states ever complete a bachelor's degree or higher. apprenticeships and other on-the-job training programs are powerful alternatives. they help shift the conversations away from the traditional narrow four-year degree path. and towards the skills needed to find successful careers and jobs that exist today. right now, the three fastest growing jobs in america, nurse
practitioners and solar panels installers, many jobs involve skills that could be gained from on-the-job training programs. these are the jobs that have comfortable incomes and can rebuild the american middle class. according to the bureau of labor statistics. they meet the salary for a solar panel installer is $40,000 a year. wind turbine technician earns a median wage of over $56,000 a year. we need to make sure that we educate and train these workers on the specific and in demand skills in a partnership with the employers in these fields. we need to make sure we have programs that provide skills trainings were careers that are available now, but also the careers of tomorrow. coders to support information technology. project marketing coordinators. workers that can build new, more sustainable and reliable power
grid, just to name a few. these are all careers attainable with a combination of classroom training and on-the-job apprenticeship programs. out of necessity, employers like toyota and intermediaries career rise -- careerwise are building programs to keep their business and partners globally competitive. our for -- our first witness is going to be my friend of, i don't know how long, probably over 25 years now. he has learned over his 35 years of experience in manufacturing that workforce development has always been a limiting factor to economic growth. decades to tackle the workforce and skills gap by personally supporting 42 low-income kids.
bounding the colorado advanced manufacturing aligns to engage manufacturers across the state and solving systemic challenges. chairing the school's career and college readiness counsel. as well as the metro denver chamber of commerce board. he has served on the colorado workforce development council and the scholarship initiative in the colorado economic development council. i can go on. the list goes on beyond that. but also, more importantly he came to me with this idea about apprenticeships and founded, and has led this volunteer careerwise. training a programs that aren't associated with traditional apprenticeship programs and apprenticeship occupations. careerwise has worked with over 200 employers across the country from new york city, to denver, to indiana and to washington,
d.c. to build these programs in modern occupations from software coding and automation design, banking and education and on. they made a possible first small businesses it will provide equitable opportunities while approving their bottom lines. i look forward to discussing how careerwise in toyota are building programs for the modern programs. we have a great example of how on-the-job training will work. they just completed a registered apprenticeship program with assurance in denver and became a full-time journey worker as a business development representative. in miscarry, the president of toyota motor manufacturing in indiana will share how toyota created the academy that connects high school students with career opportunities and advanced manufacturing.
i am eagerly looking forward to talking about how we, on this committee, can support these types of programs and continue to build on the success. i will turn it over to the ranking member for his opening statement. >> thank you, senator. i have probably, most recently come off the pavement of running a business. i can tell you, long before covid, in a state like indiana, i pledged to visit all 92 of our counties every year that i am a u.s. senator. and i learned so much, and workforce was the number one issue. broadband and affordable housing. so every time i sit down with a business in indiana, which has got a great climate, we keep wrestling with this issue, and the gap is growing wider rather than naturally shrinking. you would hope that when those high demand, high wage jobs are
out there, that there would be an easier way to dovetale that basic education you get in high school to whatever you want to do next, including immediately getting into the workforce. nfib, who represents a lot of those start ups, the small businesses that turn in the larger ones, say over half of their members grapple with that. even the ones down with just a few employees. we are currently looking at reauthorizing the workforce innovation and opportunity act. i have to say that this topic is, maybe along with agriculture, one of the most bipartisan discussions i have seen in the senate. so we got a lot of that going for us as well. some of my colleagues are eager to increase the scope and funding of job-training on workforce development through reconciliation, a process we are
going through currently. i must tell you i think that to get the proper input from employers across the country, that we need to be careful so that we get it right. maybe this ought to be a topic that we do through regular order and may be like this. discuss it, bring expert witnesses and in, and check where the rubber meets the road employers across the country. one way to serve employers needs is through industry recognized apprenticed programs which allow job creators to have input and a more active role in what you do. if the economy changes, they allow apprenticeship programs to be flexible and innovative. today you will hear from the president of toyota motor managing indiana based in princeton, not far from where i live. they have done an excellent job with the tortilla academy. it's a model that companies across the country should aspire
to put in place. i will close with this. when you have the cost of a college education now eclipsing, in terms of increase, rate of cost growth per year, that of health care, you have actually risen to a new level of having a dubious category of what's probably for families along with health care, the most important thing we need to get right. i served on the education committee back in our indiana state legislator, and believe a lot of our issues go deeper in terms of your state boards of education actually thinking they are doing things by lipservice and generally disaggregated programs that don't hit the sweet spot, and have issues of where you actually stigmatize the pathway, like i found in my own school districts in my home
county, and one that i served on, where there was no discussion when kids are in middle school, especially when they get to high school, of what your options are. parents are our main allies in this journey because they probably had one or two kids that pursued a four-year degree. half of them did not make it to the finish line. the third that did make it to the finish line got a degree with no market. that sat with as much money as we spend on it. so i think this is going to be collaborative and i think businesses and parents are the main stakeholders in higher education across the country, which i think we can do a few things here. i'm looking forward to them taking the bull by the horns and putting us in a better place. >> thank you. >> thank you member. now we can get to the witness's testimony. i'm sure they are sick of us
talking about them. i will talk about them a little bit more. manufacturing entrepreneur, the ceo of intertech classics and intertech medical. he has been on a 30 year journey to create more opportunity for young people. i mentioned the dreamers. he took them from almost no chance and gave 90% of them a great chance, he gave all of them a great chance. that journey has helped him create, as founder and ceo of our nonprofit careerwise, i think it's one of the pioneering organizations in american youth apprenticeship. industry lake, student centered model that trains high school students for modern economy type jobs. advanced manufacturing, business
opportunities, finance, health care, down the list. on monday he was selected to serve on the department of labor's national advisory committee. i know he will do good service there as well. miss navarro, i worked last night practicing to be able to pronounce a difficult name. with a name like hickenlooper you have a certain respect for the challenges of things. but they are business development representative with pinnacle insurance in denver, colorado. she recently completed the careerwise program, which is registered with pinnacle insurance in colorado. they are a community interpreter certification in spanish, and a property casualty insurance certification. because of her apprenticeship she knows where she wants to take her career. obviously leaning towards additional training, possibly college that her employer would
no doubt help take -- play for -- pay for. i understand your sister has accompanied you. you can wave. thank you for coming out here. thank you both for being here. we look forward to it. go ahead. introduce your witness. >> the president of toyota motor manufacturing in indiana based in princeton and a community an hour away from where i live. as the first thing that has chronic issues of getting workforce right. it's for tight labor supply. that's the way you raise labors the old fashion way short -- way.
it produces high and sequoia. started the career there in 1997 for national recognition as a leader in manufacturing and workforce training. she will tell us today about the innovative force he academy program. toyota began and is working in princeton, indiana and involves all the local high schools and is a model that other companies need to look at across the country. >> why don't you start with your testimony. >> thank you senator. thank you for being an advocate when you are a business owner, a mayor, governor. the challenges we have to address the issues that you spoke about is that there are multiple paths to opportunity in this country. and because of that, i left the business that i founded over 41 years ago.
it can be transformational for our country for our businesses in young people. i started my business 41 years ago. i was a junior in college at the time when i started that business. i really knew nothing. when i couldn't find the challenge i assumed it was the schools. so i knocked on the front doors and spent the next 10 years learning there was a missing piece. and it wasn't as much as let's happening with the classroom but the role the industry plate. and it's semi-on a journey that led me to go to an institute that learned about how other countries do this. 70% began an apprenticeship that leads to a job in a market driven system that pays between
45 and $55,000 a year starting. you can start with an apprenticeship and end with a phd. the second reason is what the senator manchin. it's a part of the i have a dream foundation. once you've had that experience you just can't sit back and say that was enough. you could do that first city, state or country. i believe, after five years, and building this model that i will say -- share with you now, i have the opportunity to talk about the change or the role that business can play that is in our self interest. the opportunity for young people that you will hear about later on in this country. so the way our model works it
starts in the 11th to 12th grade students will spend two today week in business and in the classroom. three days a week in the business. full or part-time. these are registered apprenticeship where the students are being paid in apprenticeship wage. they have the potential to do anything. it moves that the speed of business. schools cannot be expected to modify their curriculum where code may change every year. so this is a year to blend in the classroom with the power of the learning that takes place in the workplace.
education belongs in both places. it's almost as if i'm talking about a three legged stool. the first is k-12 -- k-12, and yes we should make investments and continue to do that. but it's not the only answer. a two legged stool won't stand up. and ours is not in this country. but a three lake it stool can. what's the difference? the difference is industry has a role to play in education. not just consumers of talent, but that can be transformational for our young people and for our businesses. what makes this possible and wise careerwise is critical is the role of intermediaries. yes we have great apprenticeships in the trades of this country led by the union, but it's not the only place where apprenticeships belong. the secret place is in high school because there is a cliff
that happens. there is only one path to prosperity in america. there are two, and apprenticeship is an option multiplier. if you add that third leg of the stool, you can change everything. i can tell you in my own business, kevin king, a young african-american man, he built and programmed automations that enabled us to bring product from china. while also paying for his engineering degree. why, because it's in our self interest. the point about what i'm sharing today is this is more than just a program. it's something that can change our country. in the words of jamie dimon and the ceo and chairman of j.p. morgan chase, who brought us to new york. soon after that we went to indiana and elkhart. he said something that was powerful. after visiting pinnacle assurance, he said, if each of us would do what pinnacle does and take 5% of our workforce and
make them youth apprentices, we would change the country. that's the reason i left my business, that's the reason i spend 50 hours at careerwise, because i think we can change the country so that 10 years from now we won't talk about the same problems. >> thank you. i appreciate that. >> thank you for my invitation to speak. i completed my registered apprenticeship with pinnacle assurance in denver, colorado and became a full-time journey worker at a business development representative. before my apprenticeship, i did not know what path i would be in. i would pick something random. that's what a lot of people my age do. they don't feel like they have options. but because i feel like i do have options in my apprenticeship. because of my apprenticeship, i have experience, confidence, career path and ability to provide for myself. i would like to tell you how it impacted my life. i grew up in denver, colorado
with my mom, dad, three brothers and one sister. i parents primarily spoke spanish. i heard from adults that work was essential. i was not the type of person that wanted to go to college. i tried to figure out what i wanted to do before spending money on college. when i was in high school i did not know what i wanted to do for a career. school thought -- felt like i was learning things without context. i tried several other ways to not be in the school setting, such as internship. then my high school coordinator suggest i do a apprenticeship. i need to say thank you to her because i will not have tried it or be here today if not for her. i would like to thank pinnacle and all the amazing people that helped train me and shake me to be the person i am today. i did my apprenticeship at an insurance company in denver. when i began in my first semester, i spent half of my days in high school classes on the other half at work. i was attracted to the apprenticeship because of the
different career pathways that were open. supporting each team for test. test. test. test. test. test. test. test. test. test. apprentices. through my apprenticeship in my training i learned a lot of skills. when i was in high school there weren't repercussions if i showed up late or did not meet a deadline. at work i needed to meet deadlines. i had to learn how to manage my time wisely, prepare meetings and assure my timing -- my assignments were done on time. my teachers commented that i have become more mature and responsible. i have become more confident about public speaking. without my training i would not be speaking with you today. i like learning new things. in the beginning it was stressful for me when i was going through training. but then i feel accomplished. i know i'm ready for more and more.
knowing that i'm an expert in those skills. and to keep gaining experience. i managed an entire claims queue. we were the only ones in charge. i saw that we were trusted just like the adults. my parents were hesitant because they wanted me to go to college. we went through the pros and cons, they got on board. i taught -- i promised them i would get hired full-time. i was hired into a full-time role at pinnacle and i am proud of myself. i am also leaning towards going to college now and i know what i want to do with my career. my company will pay for my tuition. i have learned a community interpretation is certification and i'm aiming towards that. because of my apprenticeship i moved out of my parents house and got my own place. previous internships had no
opportunity of promotion. no hope of a real career or better future. my apprenticeship allowed me to become a employee that could provide for myself. it has changed my life. has the opportunity to work and has given me the confidence and professionalism to succeed in whatever i want to do. i hope other students can have the same opportunities i had. thank you for listening. >> thank you for coming, that was very well done. >> good morning. i am president of toyota at indiana where we produce some of the most technologically
advanced vehicles on the world today. test. test. test. test. test. for conducting this hearing where force development is important thing. i have been in the industry for 41 years. i am pleased to see many senators represent states where toyota has significant operations and workforce development partnerships. over the years toyota invested more than $29 billion in the united states. in fact, in june of 2020 we completed our $13 billion u.s. operation. it will create an additional 1400 jobs to put electric vehicles. but to manufacturing facilities overall, 15 hundred dealerships on 180,000 people working across the united states. test. test.
test. test. test. test. test. s a paramount importance to toyota. my passion for workforce development is directed to my own experience as a young woman trying to find a way academically and professionally. initially i thought i wanted to be a chemist and do chemical analysis and it was not for me. when lab equipment failed, i learned that i like troubleshooting equipment rather than doing analysis and that really excited me. so i returned to school for electronics. through internship i was able to learn theory and apply it on the job. a learning style that suited me perfectly. despite being the only woman in the room, i was not deterred, i persevered and had my passion for machines in a rewarding manufacturing career. as i reflect on those experiences, a few things come to mind that are fundamental to how toyota approaches workforce development. first, exposure early in life matters. i came across it by chance after
already embarking on a serious course of study. if i was exposed to the program before college i would have landed on my pathway much sooner. but toyota has provided 30.5 million, 180 four k-12 schools in indiana and across the country to implement the program that provides students with stem education. in the area close to my plant we have teamed up with local high schools to create the academy, which is designed to connect upper-level level students with career opportunities and advanced manufacturing. these efforts have significantly increase the pathways in our region. secondly, combining classroom learning with on-the-job experiences is by far the most powerful. we have collaborated with community colleges to develop a highly successful advanced manufacturing technician or amg
program. our students attend school two days a week and learn on the job. they get technical knowledge, technical behavior in a distinct manufacturing core skills through a focused co-op experience. in indiana i partnered with vincent university. about 400 employers from 32 chapters in 12 states. and which is known collectively as the federation of advanced manufacturing education. it is now led by the manufacturing institute at which i am on the board. it is quickly becoming america's premier homegrown manufacturing education network. over 1300 students have graduated since 2010, with more than 500 since 2020 despite the pandemic. lastly, i cannot overstate the importance of intentionality around bringing unrepresented -- underrepresented people into stem careers.
toyota is providing tolls to help educators increase participation and persistence of women and underrepresented student groups. as the full committee considers next steps, i want to offer to policy suggestions. first, exposure early matters period i want to emphasize the importance of considering workforce development policies in conjunction with education policies. if the education policies are not flexible enough to allow students to try different pathways, students can bypass even the best workforce opportunities. i urge the committee to prioritize the reauthorization. the community should regulate change that further increases -- in the workforce system. employers want to and can drive
workforce developments to new heights. i appreciate this opportunity to testify before you, and i look forward to expanding on these comments and q&a. thank you. >> thank you so much. thank you for all that you are doing for workforce. i will ask a few questions and turn it over and we will rotate back and forth and interrogate you with a broad cross-section of u.s. senators. let's start with mr. ginsberg. you said this already, but why is it that you think that intermediaries are so important for small and medium-size businesses that are project developed and in a program? why do we need intermediaries? >> thank you, senator. that's an important question because i can tell you as a business owner myself, we
struggled to create an apprenticeship program for years. and it's because of small business we did not have the resource or knowledge of what a registered model would look like. and we did not know how to tap the talent of those that were interested. why an intermediary is so important today is that, in the u.s. context, currently businesses, few businesses are like toyota or pinnacle that actually understand the role that they can play. but if you are a small business, having an intermediary that connects the schools, the students, educates the parents about the opportunities and educates the businesses as well at how an apprenticeship operates, particularly a registered apprenticeship program, which is shout -- which is so essential for a young person. once they graduate to move to another business with the registered apprenticeship, you know what the training looks like, you know that it's high-quality.
an intermediary enables all of that to take place. at the same time, for a large company, even they don't always have the resources, particularly around youth. how to bring a young person into the workplace. this isn't an internship. they are providing productive valuable work. that's why during the pandemic, 68% of our students kept working as apprentices because they are were essential workers. in intermediary makes that possible. >> i meant to say at the beginning make sure you all try to be concise, but you are naturally concise. i want to ask you a little bit more about how you partnered with local high schools in the academy, specifically how you could build this partnership when so many educators are convinced that college has to be the next step. how are you able to break down
that stigma that you must go to college to be successful? it's a mantra that many kids here all the time in school. >> thank you, senator. the key is really getting awareness to the students and the parents like you discussed earlier. and also to the teachers. bringing them in and showing them what careers in manufacturing our light, and what types of skills we actually built in their careers. our 4g academy started with three, we are going to four, we are going to five next year. it has been a perfect marriage with a lot of the students, like heard today, who aren't sure about what they want to do. and this marries the profession of what career to manufacturing
are. they are high skilled, high paying, they have great benefits, they build on the skills like what was spoken earlier. you can go on to get your degree so you can go into advanced manufacturing and technician programs. you can go into engineering. you can go into marketing. we help pay for those. i think the key is that the parents are understanding and the students are understanding how exciting these are, and that by learning as you are going to school, and working on the job site, i have seen the faces of the students. their eyes are sparkling because they are like, i've seen what i want to do and i have not seen this before and i have not been able to work in an industry that shows me how they are going to teach me skills in order for me to be self-sufficient, add value
and purpose on their life. so it's extremely important to continue that. sorry, i'm going long. >> i love the description. we had that expression in front of us. i wanted to get a question over here. you give credit to your high school coordinator. how can other kids -- how do we get the word out to other kids of how attractive and beneficial this program is? >> for me is we got presentations at school multiple times of apprenticeships, but there's not always schools that have a representative. however i advise other students that might not have that person at their school is going to look for the resources. students that are shy, timid and don't want to go because they feel intimidated because of the person they will talk to. i tell my brother, go do it, no matter what you will find the resources. i go to school, i talked to them
and it helps a lot. i was talking to apprentices that were planning you hired. after i saw it all typed together, now i just want to be a representative. i want to go to school. just do it, who cares, you won't lose anything. >> first question will be for miscarry. up to five high schools. what is you find when the first high school came on board. were you getting this as opposed to the fork -- for your degree? >> most guidance counselors
understand that getting a skill -- if you can teach a skill, no one can take a skill for you. as we were collaborating with them and showed them the types of training we would give them as the students came here, they were quick to get on board. one of the main things was we had to teach was that we want a broad, diverse workforce. we want to go -- make this awareness to all students. let's not ppigeonhole students. once we came together how we wanted to market the program, it's been very successful. >> how did parents react? >> you know, the parents we actually had an open house. the parents came. i spoke to the parents. people were very interested in the program. they know about toyota.
some of them haven't been in the plant. they haven't seen the high tech robotics. they were amazed at the careers their kids could have and how we were going to be partnering with them to teach them those skills. i think letting them be a part of it, letting them feel it, touch it, hear it, it really helped them understand what the type of program was about. >> thank you. mr. ginsburg, we were talking earlier about state boards of education. you can only be successful getting a four-year degree, maybe a two-year degree. how much do you think the issue of what you are trying to do, what toyota is doing, what miss navarro figure the out on her
own to maybe do, how much is higher ed an issue from the top down in terms of policy to the guidance counselors in high school? has it come along as much as you have seen things move in your own world? toyota looks like they're moving the dynamic by being there in the community, giving opportunity to get in that direction. how big a deal is higher ed that still believes in four-year degrees and still stigmatizes the pathways that we're trying to talk about? >> certainly, you are talking about a challenge that's cultural in our society as well as in the education system itself. at the k-12 level, what i will tell you is, they change quickly what they want. what they want is in the best interest of their students. what they don't always understand is the value of this learning and the career path it enables. at the higher ed level, it's an
important part of the system. it isn't always aligned to what employers need. meaning, you do your general ed first and then you get to what you are specifically interested in. i think purdue university in indiana is the leader on this. they are changing. they are enabling companies to send their employees to get specific training. maybe not a degree. but recognizing that a credential or certification is equally valuable. i think that needs to grow in our higher ed system. it doesn't move fast. frankly, i think apprenticeship can help support and facilitate more students taking the benefit of posecondary. >> thank you. miss navarro, sounds like you put two and two together fairly quickly to get you to where you are here today.
choosing to get into the workplace. your particular high school, you said that they did have information. how long had they been doing it? was that something recently that they did to make you aware of other options of going into the military or two or four-year degree or did you do most of this on your own? >> for my school, the resources were displayed out. but we were the pioneers. me and two others were the first to get hired at my school as apprentices for john f. kennedy high school. before that there was apprenticeships, but they existed with other schools that were community colleges. it was going to school and learning there instead of -- it wasn't working at all. most of the resources were with career wise, they would do boot camp. they did a bunch of sections where all of the workplaces
hiring that year were there. that's where i met pinnacle. i gave them my resume. this place sounds amazing. luckily, that place hired me. that's the only place i applied to. luckily, they hired me. for the most part, there's a lot of students had to do it on their own. for me, i had resources. suzy guided me. my school had a lot of resources. talking all the students into a school bus, going together during lunch to go down all the things that we needed to do to get hired. >> thank you. senator portman, i understand you have a conflict. i was going to give you priority to ask a few questions. >> thank you, chairman hickenlooper. i always wanted to be on the committee. this is unbelievable. thank you. listen, i am here with friends.
the two of you in particular being employers in your previous incarnations and i know everybody in this panel has a passion for this, this training issue is huge. senator cane and i have been trying unsuccessfully -- we came close -- in the so-called -- in the frontier act to get a program in place that many of are you familiar with. i snow senator braun and others have worked on this. to get people to the point where they can get short-term certificates and have the federal government help them. we spend so much money on higher ed. i'm not against that. but my gosh, shouldn't we spend some money on actually training people to the jobs that are right there available now where they will not have a big debt. they will go right into buying a house and buying a car and being able to get the economy moving. that's what this is about.
our economy post covid-19, but in this time period, needs this more than ever. i cannot tell you an employer i have talked to in ohio -- i know this is true in your states. we had a conference call this morning with the oil and gas industry in ohio. what i hear about, number one issue, workforce. number one issue. it's truck drivers. it's technicians. for the disposal wells to have some way to find people to do the work. this is a critical issue for our long-term economic health. right now, more important than ever. i do think it's about the entire economy. i'm not suggesting it's all about middle skill jobs, which is what economists call these jobs that don't require a college degree but do require advanced level training. that has been the real problem in our economy the last several years. it's about everything right now. it's hospitality. it's executives. it's so-called white collar
jobs. still, the biggest concern i think is among these middle skill jobs. this morning, just while i have been here, i've heard exciting news about what's going on with your high schools and career and technical education programs. senator cane, who you will hear from in a moment, and i are co-chairs. the cte caucus here in the senate, we have a caucus to promote career and technical education. we have had legislation to get the federal government funding increased and provide more standards for cte and improve cte. that's all good. in my view, it's not going to solve the problem. current technical can't provide the level of training that most employers need to fill these so-called middle income jobs. these are jobs like welders and machinists in factories. one of the people on the phone this morning was a manufacturer who provides something for the oil and gas industry. he can't find welders, which isn't a surprise. i'm sure anybody on this panel,
medical technicians, truck drivers, logistics experts, coders, people who can help program these computers that are running every factory in america in most of our lives. those are the middle skill jobs. our idea is really very simple, to provide this program funding not just for a four-year or two-year degree, but for shorter term training programs and give someone an industry recognized certificate at the end of the process. the success of the programs is unbelievable. we heard about some of this today. if you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, after 10, 12 years you can get a degree that will give you a job, you are more likely to stick around. unfortunately with pell in higher ed -- we have had this discussion in this committee. most of the students do not get a degree. most do not get a degree.
again, i'm for pell higher ed. we can improve the program. shouldn't we permit it for the other purpose where these students are pretty much going to get the certificate and get a job? we have all had the situation where someone does get that degree in college and then they don't have a job at the end because they don't have the skills. it's connecting that. a better way than cte and the programs we have been promoting. the jobs act has 39 co-sponsors. i'm grateful for the bipartisan changes to improve the bill and allow it to advance to the senate floor. we almost got it done. it was in the amendment for the so-called third frontier bill or endless frontier bill. i would urge members to look at it. if you can help us with it, that would be great. my hope is that we will find a
vehicle here this year to be able to move forward. i thank the witnesses for being here today, all of you and what you are doing in your home states and encouraging more young people to take advantage of these programs, the cte programs and the short-term training programs. every community college in our state is now focused more and more on this. number one priority of community colleges around america is to get the jobs act done. they're doing short-term training programs. as are the technical schools. i think it's the best way to begin to fill this jobs gap that we see. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator. senator smith? >> thank you so much, chair hickenlooper and ranking member braun and to our panelists today for your excellent testimony in this great hearing. thank you, senator portman, for joining us. i'm waiting for senator cane to come as well. listen, i constantly hear the stories that you all are
telling when i'm in minnesota about people interested in pursuing well-paying, high-skilled jobs and careers that aren't dependent on a four-year degree. folks like ms. navarro are ready to hit the ground running. you want to go out and work and do things. people who want to pursue a real diverse range of opportunities, as senator portman was saying, from truck drivers and welders to technology and health care and logistics. employers are saying the same thing, that they need these workers. that's why this hearing is so important and why it's so important that we make investments in this, these kinds of opportunities for people. i want to hone in on the first -- first on the question of registered apprenticeships. mr. ginsburg, i will direct this to you. i introduced the bill which would help better prepare students for high skill in
demand jobs. one element of the bill is it prioritizes partnerships between schools and employers. they are employer customized on-the-job training with pay. these registered apprenticeships seems to me the gold standard for workforce training. of course, the return on investment is fantastic. workers who are in these programs are seeing average wages of, i understand, $60,000 a year, which is really terrific. mr. ginsburg, could you speak to us about your experience and how the registered apprenticeship programs are beneficial not only to your workers but also to your business? >> thank you for the question, senator. in fact, the registered system i think is critical as we move particularly youth apprenticeship forward. the reason why is it's a quality frame that guide the
apprenticeship, advised by industry. the standards are what industry contributes, what they train to. if you are a small company that -- like mine, it's valuable because it's a guide. if you are a company like jp morgan chase that have apprentices moving into the hundreds, for them, they do business in all 50 states. with a registered apprenticeship, they know that those competencies are the same for all of the branchs throughout the country. that is a powerful tool to scaling this. at the same time -- there's something that senator portman said that resonates with me. this is a complex model. as an intermediary, including the registration program we support throughout the country, so they can register, if we
don't resource workforce differently than we have in the past -- if the resources are the same, the outcomes will be the same. so i think the next few weeks here, you guys have an incredibly hard job. i will tell you that an investment in workforce to move this forward, i believe, will move the country forward. registration is a key component. at the same time, without the resources for intermediaries for associations, that will bring businesses in and then basically hand hold until they learn the system, we won't be making any difference and ten years from now we will talk about the problems we have. >> we have to do this differently. i think what you are describing and how registered apprentice ships can work is a great example of that. another thing that i think we have to do differently is to get into schools and high schools sooner. miss navarro, i would love to talk to you about this. i have been working on
legislation with senator graham that would pull in after-school providers to connect young people with employers. very similar to the experience that you had. provide on-the-job training and internships and career exploration and moving into registered apprenticeships and -- like what you did. could you talk a little bit about how old you were when you got connected into this and what difference you think it would make if you had exposure earlier in your education career? >> great question. i started actually my sophomore year summer, i started two internships. my summer of sophomore and junior year, one was excel energy and one with emily griffith technical colleges. this leaned me going into the workforce and working instead of going to college because i enjoyed my experience. it was six weeks. i was doing work that wasn't enjoyable. work they left for the internship that was going to be
there in the summer. what can i do that will be longer? then i started looking into internships i can do during the semester. those are eight weeks. the same thing, it won't be that valuable to me. i started looking into the apprenticeship. with the apprenticeship, it was three years. there's a lot of benefits that include with the apprenticeship, certifications you can get. you get the registered apprenticeship. you get connected with people there, new connections that can help you for your career and on top of that you get a coach. the coach helps you -- helps guide you through the three years. you meet with them every week. you talk to them about any problems. with pinnacle, they created such a great structure to help me be, okay, i can talk to my coach about this. she's going to help me with college classes, help me with -- i can talk to her about life or anything. i can talk to my supervisors about training that's not going well. with pinnacle, they did a six-month training that was time management, how to dress
professionally, dress for the day. i didn't know how to dress with my internship. look at me. i'm here. i know how to -- >> you know what to do? >> i know what to do now, public speaking and everything. with all of the resources and being 19 talking in front of the senate is a big impact of what now i want students to be doing. in colorado, i want to see my little brother, he is 14, i told me, you have to do an apprenticeship. he said, i can't wait until i can start my apprenticeship, my internship and go into an apprenticeship and be how like you are. >> i think you are a good organizer. i really appreciate your feedback. thank you, mr. chair, for letting us go long. >> thank you. senator. senator tuberville? >> thank you, senator hickenlooper and senator braun for having this. this is much needed. if we had one of these hearings every week for the next ten years, it probably wouldn't be enough. i spent 40 years in education.
i'm here today because of education. i ran for u.s. senate in the state of alabama because the last 20 years i've seen our education going the wrong direction. we have the best education system in the world. we could be much better. for some reason, we won't change. we won't do the things we need to do to make it better for the kids that are coming up. we are different than the kids nowadays. we had different goals. we had different opportunities. now we have cyber. we have computer science. well all those things going along with it. the main thing that we need to do in my perspective of watching over 40 years is what miss curry said earlier. we have to expose people to something they want to do. when i got every day after i graduated from college and i went to work coaching and teaching, i loved every minute
of it. i enjoyed it. i think i did a pretty good job at it. because i liked it. that's what we have to do with these kids. miss navarro hit it on the head. seeing the smile on her face. she's excited about doing something. we have to do something about education. when i ran, i talked to groups across the state of alabama. we can't find people to work. you better start educating your own. our education system doesn't educate people. we indoctrinate. we bring them in and we don't teach the things they need to teach to use their hands. we better start teaching people to use their hands instead of just their brain. we have to do that. that's what talking about with apprenticeships and learning a skill and having a great life. because you can have a great life. you can have fun doing it. i'm here today because that's
so -- i want to thank you, miss curry. we have a community college in alabama that has one of your partnerships. how did this partnership work? how do you get involved with a community college? >> thank you, senator. we have actually five partnerships in your state. the coalition, which is the federation of advanced manufacturing, we pulled together small, medium and large businesses. we actually market to all the businesses with the school system. we look at the curriculum of the school system and we help change that curriculum to meet the business needs. we have over 400 companies, small, medium and large, with 32
different community colleges that are involved in our advanced manufacturing technician program. it's nationalized. it works very well. we teach the teacher. we also bring them into our businesses and let them see what's needed. the manufacturing institute is the conduit to help bring more chapters in. we actually, since the pandemic -- in 2021 we have initiated nine more chapters. it's something that's out there. it's very easy to get ahold of on the website. anyone can be a partner. we can help them with these chapters. >> thank you, mr. ginsburg, i know career-wise with birmingham
promise initiative in alabama, programs like this one, what are apprentices paid? >> it differs. certainly, obviously, the minimum wage. but what we are seeing is around $15, $16, even before the pandemic. because companies saw the value and wanted to make the investment. what's more important is they are graduating from their apprenticeship earning $45,000 to $55,000. it's apprenticeship wage and registered model. you have to increase that as competency increased. this is a path not just to the middle class but beyond. >> i remember graduating from college back in 1976. my parents spent a lot of money for that. back then it was a lot of money. my first contract teaching school and coaching was $8,500 a year. we have come a long way. you are talking 50 to $55,000
for an apprenticeship. we fortunate to have jobs like this where people can train on the job. how many hours a week do they work? >> it ranges from -- in first year, 16 hours a week in the business. second year, three days a week. then it can go to full or part-time, depend on postsecondary options. what's your success rate, people staying in the program? >> obviously, we are nation. we have graduated two cohorts of apprentices. nearly 1,000 apprentices are in the program nationally. over 200 businesses ranging from small businesses like the companies in indiana as well as large companies like jp morgan chase in new york. what we are seeing is that the equity promise of apprenticeship is rising. it's breaking that cement ceiling that i believe existed
above students that may not come from the same opportunity or right zip code. they are gaining jobs that pay middle class wages early on. i would tell you the percentages are in the 30%, 40%, but we are early on of those that graduate and another 30% will go on to secondary education. they have spent two years in the workplace and then married to the theoretical. what's important is the companies reporting that an apprentice is 91% as efficient, productive as a regular employee. think about that. a high school student trained through an apprenticeship coming out of that is 91% as effective, the students are finding almost 100%. because of their apprenticeship, like miss navarro, she has the opportunity to get a credential
and move on to postsecondary education. almost all of our apprentices are seeing that. this is the path of opportunity, a path of options. >> one thing i would like to say about it is, it gives them the opportunity to continue their education and enjoy. a lot of our panel doesn't understand some of the education -- you look at the direction that we are headed, and public schools as we speak today, half the kids cannot read over sixth grade reading level. the apprenticeships will teach them and encourage them to continue to learn to read, to learn to write and do all those things. i think that's another very important aspect of this point. >> senator, you were right on. you are hitting the nail on the head. what we are seeing with our apprentices that are not reading at grade level, sometimes many levels below, is once they start an apprenticeship and see where that math is important, reading is important, how you write an email or professional letter,
they come up to grade level faster than they would in the classroom. you are 100% right. you are also right, students, when they find their passion, like you did, like i was fortunate to do, it accelerates their life and the potential they have as a young person and a contributing member of our country, our society. >> thank you. sorry for going over. >> that's okay. that was a great last question and answer. i wouldn't have missed it for the world. senator baldwin? >> thank you so much. i appreciate our having this hearing and our witnesses today. thank you so much for your participation. i wanted to make a couple of observations before asking my questions. obviously, this hearing focuses on apprenticeship opportunities. a lot of discussion about talking to young people early about how they might progress in their careers and what
opportunities exist. i wanted to say i am hearing from so many of my employers in wisconsin. we're a state that's a big manufacturing state. the ranking member and i compete. we go back and forth between being first and second with regard to the population in our states involved in making things, in manufacturing. we are competitive about those things. i want to suggest that not only are we hearing today about workforce shortages, but we have some ambitious plans on a bipartisan basis to pass the endless frontiers act and deal with supply chain issues and bring manufacturing for critical supply chain items back to the
u.s. we have a bipartisan infrastructure bill that we hope to advance that would really scale up our interest in, say, getting rid of -- in drinking water lead laterals. we need more pipe fitters and plummers. we need a lot more people. my questions are going to be a couple things. what obstacles exist to what you are doing now, mr. ginsburg, and miss curry? how can we scale up the activities you are engaged in to deal with the workforce shortage issue? there's another population, aside from young people, and
that's people displaced from the workforce. that can be for any number of reasons. caregiving for a loved one, incarceration, their job going away during the pandemic. they haven't returned. for those individuals, i think there's a call for other types of programs. what i have always been supportive of is having some scaleable transitional job program that allows us to help folks who have been out of the workforce for a while to identify the barriers to their employment. we will have to work on all fronts, assuming that we get our bipartisan bills across the finish line to create a lot more new jobs. let me ask mr. ginsburg and miss curry, what obstacles do you see other businesses having to doing
the type of partnership work you are talking about, small and medium businesses, and how do we scale up dramatically. >> thank you for the question. the most important question, is this just a nice program or it can change our country? coming from manufacturing, what i learned early on is you go to the root of the problem and solve it there as opposed to in the warehouse. right now, where that starts is in our k-12 system. what miss navarro shared is the counseling she got that wasn't just, go to college. look at your options. part of that is the work that as intermediaries we do with our schools, to train them, how we work with employers to train them in a language that's not familiar. it is if you are in the trade.
these are modern skills and opportunities. businesses don't know how to train, particularly small and midsize. having intermediaries that can help train the businesses, the supervisors, the coaches, walk them through the registered apprenticeship model, in time they will become self-sufficient. this is not a quick fix. but it's transformational. what i would tell you to scale, frankly, is to invest in industry, to build the sets of their training to the contemporary needs of business today that those are updated, whether it's career wise or chambers or associations that will train and recruit businesses to do this. in the end, they will do it and it will scale because it's in their self-interest. in my company, we are more profitable today. we won processor of the year in the country in large part because of our apprenticeship program. it takes resources. if we can continue to invest in our k-12 and higher ed system
without -- i'm not suggesting not funding. we need to infest in our education system. if we don't fund differently in our workworkforce, there will b change. the infrastructure we need, whether digital, energy, whether it's in the trade, whether it's banking, finance, insurance, it will take an investment to change our workforce. there's a need for resources to make that happen to scale. the fact is, other countries can do this. we can do it better. >> we were able to scale that up by bringing in small, medium and large businesses and showing
there's a pathway and there's a curriculum and there's an actual standardized work on how to do this type of program. that's why manufacturing institute was able to take this on and nationalize the program. one of the other obstacles i think that students face -- i'm very focal about this -- is the requirement -- sometimes the requirements change and they change year by year. many times a student may get stuck in one pathway and they can't diversify the classes they want to take. we need to make it a much more flexible program within the high schools. the students can pick different pathways and they're not shoehorned in. working with educators and working with the colleges to
make sure that these are recommended and actual certified programs that are recognized and that students are awarded for these types of pathways in order to get their career started is key. i really feel like we have been able to show that we can scale this program that we have. it's really -- for me, it's the benchmark right now in our industry for how to make a scaleable program and take it national. >> thank you very much. senator romney. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you to each of you for your expertise and your willingness to testify today. my state of utah is -- you may not know, is the fastest growing state in the nation according to the census bureau, the information they came out with. our employment rate is just over
2%. one of the reasons for that is that we have a very well trained, highly educated, highly motivated workforce. businesses that are looking for people they can hire in a good economic environment with good taxes and regulations. they find our state very attractive. one of the other reasons we have such an effectively trained workforce is that we have a very ample apprenticeship program. a notable example is between a company called stodler rail, they made railcars for transit purposes, and salt lake community college. under their program, students are trained for three years. this will graduate the first cohort of 15 students with associate degrees. no cost to the students. during which they will have gained transferable skills and prospects for high paying employment down the road.
stodler was the beneficiary of the trump administration's industry recognized apprenticeship program, the so-called irap program, which aimed to expand private industry participation in workforce training by promoting apprenticeships. i raise that today because the current administration has apparently plans to eliminate this program or to sideline it. i would note that programs such as this i think are essential to help encourage more apprenticeship programs. let me start with you, miss curry, which is do you have any idea why the administration would be trying to end this apprenticeship promoting program? there are some who suggested it may be as a result of unions that don't like these apprenticeship programs. i'm interested in your experience with union enterprises. how do the unions feel about your apprenticeship programs at
toyota? >> i personally don't know how the unions feel about our program. we work with our skill trades unions all the time. they're here on site doing many, many of our installations for our equipment. for me, i think the main thing is that it must be industry led. it must be in collaboration with small, medium and large businesses and with community colleges. the fast pace of technology right now, you know, we are working on artificial intelligence, hollow lens to train our team members offline. there are so many different types of technologies that are moving forward so quickly that it is key for the program to be
industry led so we can help skill up not only the students but we can skill up the teachers, the professors. and we can bring them in and show them how these technologies are applied. i feel like whatever program you pick, it must be industry led to be successful. >> thank you. mr. ginsburg, any comment on that front? i agree with miss curry, which is that linking individuals in their education to a specific company with real application in mind makes the education more effective and creates better opportunities down the road for the student. >> clearly, that's essential. the goals of the irap i believe in the beginning and now are important. how do you streamline the system? how do you make it more responsive to industry? how do you improve the quality? at the same time, what i will say, if there's anything that i
observed over the last few years is there was confusion about the two, register and irap. at the end of the day, the objectives of what was set forth i think can be achieved in either. to the point, the learning that takes place in a business along with what happens in the classroom changes young people's lives and improves our economy. i will share that i have a love for utah. i love to ski. but we work with a company that has apprenticeships moving today actually, miss navarro's brother is working there. whatever we do, like anything in business, it has to continue to improve. certainly, within the current registered system, there's room for improvement. we should stay focused on that.
whatever model we use, we make sure it responds to business. if it's not industry led, it's not scaleable. >> thank you. mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator. senator cane, you have been waiting patiently. >> thank you to the chair for calling this hearing and my colleagues and what a great panel of witnesses. i'm so excited about the opportunity for this infrastructure bill. i'm very excited about the reconciliation bill we're working on. i view them as very complementary. the need for investments in infrastructure in our country are massive. yet, the projects don't build themselves. we need to have the workforce that can carry out this ambitious infrastructure investment. and yet, there are challenges getting people into, whether it's infrastructure or construction or manufacturing. there are challenges. a recent story from virginia, i
was traveling in the appalachian region about three weeks ago. this is a part of virginia that tends to be the hardest hit economically. our state is doing pretty well economically right now. employment is coming back. but appalachia has a set of persistent challenges. one of the most notable employers in appalachian is volvo truck. over the road truck, it's made in appalachia. the plant director said to me, i could hire hundreds more people right now. i want to hire hundreds more people right now. i can't. i can't. i can advertise everywhere. i can do creative things i. can offer incentives. i can't get people to come and apply for these jobs. i was digging in, what is the
challenge? mr. ginsburg, you said you are in manufacturing. you want to solve it in the school system. there's a real need. particularly in the part of my commonwealth and my part of the country where we need good jobs for people, there's a need to get to our guidance counselors and into the schools really earlier than high school. we need to start doing it early in middle school and students are starting to think about career paths. to explain the options to do really cool things. most young people, they don't know much about the workplace. they know what their parents do. they know what teachers because because they are with teachers. they may not know what the spectrum of opportunities are. we expect them as high schoolers to start picking classes that will equip them for a future when we haven't given them the spectrum of what's available. i hope part of what we might do is really go into the schools earlier in students' lives and
help them with career plans and expose to them the opportunities that are available. i come from a manufacturing household. my dad worked in a welding shop. senatorportman raised the jobs act. it's bipartisan. the chair and ranking member of the subcommittee are co-sponsors of the bill. it would say, if college is important enough to warrant giving a student a pell grant if they income qualify, why shouldn't high quality and technical education be similarly values so students and families who want to pursue those should be able to get a pell grant, too? we make pell grants flexible. we enable students who are pursuing college programs part-time to use pell grants. that's good. we have done something that i'm excited about is we have allo ed -- we allowed them
introduction of pell grants for people getting out of being incarcerations. a traditional college course is three days a week over a 14-week semester. this has been estimated to add just about -- a tiny fraction if we were to expend pell grants to technical education. it would add the tiny little fraction in the single digit percent to the budget. i appreciate my colleagues for their support on this. i have one question for miss curry. at toyota, one of the national
skills coalitions continues to talk about the fact that a lot of our workers don't have foundational digital skills when they come into the workforce. that's particularly acute and there's inequities among folks in minority communities. what does toyota do in training to accelerate the digital proficiency of workers in your training programs? >> our program is very all inclusive of the different deck technical skills you need, whether it's showing up to work on time. we work with colleges to make sure we look at the attendance. working in a team, being able to problem solve. obviously, with math and english
classes, the wide range of skills you need to be successful. we offer mentors and we also offer people to help them if they are struggling in a class. by doing this, i think that we can -- we make sure they are successful. because we give up tutors. we watch the grades. we have the interaction with them. they are here on site. they are here two days a week. we are truly a partner with the college and professor to make sure that that student is successful. we do holistically look at the skill sets needed to help you communicate, understand a requirement for responsibility that the job requires. we work with them on their heart, their head and their hands to make sure that they can apply all these things to be
successful in that pathway. we recruit from an inclusive environment. we utilize our own members to go into the school system and show them that, someone that looks like me is doing this job. i can do it. you can see it, you can do it. >> excellent. thank you. >> thank you, senator. senator rosen. >> thank you, chair hickenlooper, ranking member braun. this is a terrific hearing. it couldn't be more timely. i appreciate all the effort, when you think about the whole person, you work on their heart, their head and their hands. that's a great way to think about our workforce, not just numbers, people. families, communities and our friends. it's a really timely topic. i want to build on what senator cane really was talking about. we're going to talk about maybe some of those math skills or the
hard skills that i think we have to get in a little bit earlier and show kids earlier in junior high even the kind of jobs that are there. even for retraining, that's a different issue. i want to talk about cybersecurity and advanced manufacturing apprenticeships. these are some of the fastest growing sectors of our workforce. they are job creators in nevada. too often our employers -- you struggle to fill the open positions because, as everyone is saying, workers lack technical skills or credentials to be successful. it's why i have introduced bipartisan bills to create registered apprenticeship programs in cybersecurity and advanced manufacturing that lead to credentials and partnering with businesses across the country. my bills increase the partnership.
to target skills development in the communities where we need to find this growth. mr. ginsburg, can you discuss why it's so important registere apprenticeships lead to measurable skills outcomes and recognized credentials so wherever folks go, these skills are transportable along with particularly in cyber security and advanced manufacturing industry. >> i think what we learned career wise with our partners in new york specifically because they are all fortune 100 countries and do business in half the states in the country if not every state. they want one model they can rely on throughout the country. what a registered program does is give them that validation, that currency. it works for the company and the young person. because if mr. navarro went too
another state, into another insurance company, they could see because of a registered apprenticeship what she knows. her competences and gives her credibility, more than just a resume. so it is powerful. and there is something else that you said that is important. career exposure early on in a students career is important. if you walk into many, even elementary school. you will see banners for college. not banners for careers. if all we tell people to be successful is get a four year degree and only a third of them actually do. and with that there is very little equity. apprenticeship, registered apprenticeship helps build equity into our system. it is starting with youth and that is why youth apprenticeship can be so transformational. you get a student and young person when their brain is still
developing. and in through that we're shaping them, training them in a way that will lead to a long-term future for them. so yes, registration is key. >> and i couldn't agree with you more. even going down elementary school. exciting the kids. i've gone in the classrooms with robotics programs and they are building little aerobics aerobi robotics. and it was amazing. they were having so much fun and they were gaining skills. so trying to say, you know, if you like to hike, you like the forest, the -- there's jobs. if you go into biology you could be a forest ranger. whatever those things are. i think when you excite kids and children you are exactly right. i want to talk about the impact. hospitality. we have a lot of people who are going to be displaced across this country not just in nevada that relies heavily on tourism but across this country that are
displaced. and we need do the same thing to retrain our workers. whose jobs may either change or may not -- may come back in a different form or fashion or not may not back at all. we did get robust relief through the c.a.r.e.s. act and american rescue plan. but we do need to focus on the retraining and reskilling. so do you want to speak about some of the, as we go from elementary school those folks in mid career. adults already, have a family. >> what you need is the need for system. and youth apprenticeship means that throughout a person's lifetime, they should be able to retrain, get credit for prior
learning and why is that important? all of the work that apprenticeship starts at the foundation can last a lifetime in terms of the workforce system that is created. in colorado we've created the -- the governor's created an office of professional education and training innovation. with the intent of linking our workforce system in a way that supports the worker at any time in their life. and the core element of that is as an example is credit for prior learning. if you are 45 and have been displaced and someone says we'll go back to school and get a new school. first of all, they have to start at the beginning. why don't we give credit for prior learning. that is a tool that makes university more affordable. it recognizes the learning that takes place in the workplace which many times is as important as what takes place in the classroom and gives people a start into a new career. we need a more permeable system in the country and we need a
workforce system that we invest and it is part of the infrastructure that i think you are talking about. human infrastructure. the real value is not the machines in my factory. it is the people. we have to invest in them at all times in their life. i wish i could be more specific. obviously my focus is in youth because it is a foundational element. but you are right. we need a workforce system more permeable that serves people throughout their lifetime. >> i think you are exactly right. thank you for being here, investing in people is always a good investment. thank you mr. chair. >> i can aan amen to that. thank you guys. i will briefly stall because i also know you can get tied up on the senate floor. i have a letter here from governor of colorado to our delegation describing career widest and the importance of these programs and why we need to make sure as the u.s. senate
that we find the resources and funding to make sure that we not only continue them but can expand them. so without objection i would like to submit for the hearing record this letter from governor polis to the colorado delegation. it asks for share of vision between the federal delegation and state government and urgency robust funding and reauthorization of the national apprenticeship act and acts the senate to support high quality apprenticeship models, such as we've seen today n both cases, that allow youth and adults to earn while they learn. i want to thank each of you. i know how busy you are. and all three of you, you are so impressive for different -- in different ways.
and i think it really is a pleasure that you could all join us. appreciate your time. i guess i don't see senator -- okay. well then we're going to let you off the hook. so we will conclude our hearing today. i'd like to thank my colleagues, ranking member for helping us organize this. especially our witness, you guys are doing the real work. you are changing the way this country thinks about skills and learning in such a way that and this is something we've talked
about senator brawn and i, trying to make sure we have an arc that covers a person's entire lifetime and allows them to have a life that is continually enriched by additional skills and learning. any senators who have additional questions to ask, and i think senator braun does. he can submit those questions to the record within six days. on september 30 at 5:00 p.m. and hearing will also remain open for member who is wish to submit additional materials for the record. with that the committee stands adjourned. thank you all. with that, the cos adjourned. which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]