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tv   American Bar Association Discussion on Rise of Unaccompanied Children at...  CSPAN  April 14, 2021 5:58pm-7:32pm EDT

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you meghan bio sensation had a
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discussion on the legal challenges as the influx of children to the border continues. >> i will be your moderator for today's webinar. unfortunately our previously scheduled moderate, mary juvenile, is unable to join us today. we are thrilled to be able to present this time the panels entitled, unaccompanied children at the border -- get the facts from the experts, sponsored by the aviation commission on immigration and the nba section on civil rights and social justice. this panel is one of many and a series of rapid response webinars. the civil rights and social justice session is actively planning additional programming on a variety of issues so please visit american bar dot
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oregon, forward slash, he our sja, for updates on these programs. during today's's program we encourage you to ask questions of our panelists through the q&a function, not the chat. if you do not to see the controls please ensure your screen is not idle. we will address questions at the end of the panel. we will be sharing a recording of this program with everyone who is registered so that you can share it widely with [inaudible] and with that, i'm excited to introduce you to our panelists and give your rode up more map for today's conversation. i'll begin with a short background on the context in which today's migration of uncut company children is on 14. and then we'll hear from, in order, hardly salazar, legal director of the ap cell south texas pro bono asylum representation project, or probe are, to discuss the ba's work on the border, to provide firsthand analysis of the reasons children are fleeing
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their countries, and what legal challenges they are facing when they come to the united states. carly will be followed by michelle saenz rodriguez cofounder and attorney with saenz rodriguez ac at director on the board of governors with the american immigration lawyers ' association. michelle has been engaged in inspiring work at carly [inaudible] housed at the dallas convention center. alasdair she provides us with the reality of that [inaudible] we'll turn to another staffer, dave castillo granddaughters. dolly is the director of the children's [inaudible] dahlia will provide more insight into the particular rights and challenges unaccompanied minors face in the system and how support legal advocates to provide services to on a commentary.
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children finally will fortunate to have marc greenberg with us today. mark is a member of the aviation commission on immigration and is senior fellow and the director of the human services initiative at the migration policy institute. as the former acting assistant secretary at the administration for children and families at the department of health and human services, mark has deep insight into the resources and policies needed to manage and support unaccompanied children throughout their journey. it has been widely reported that nearly 19,000 unaccompanied minors were taken into government trust custody at the u.s. border with mexico in march of this. you're the highest monthly numbers ever recorded. two days ago government data showed there were over 4000 accompanied unaccompanied children and 16,500 children in [inaudible] . in fact, the biden administration projects the numbers of unaccompanied minors seeking entry into the united
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states will continued to grow and we know this is fueled by gains in china crime and sexual in gender based violence [inaudible] poverty a natural disaster and the breakdown in civil society throughout the countries of central america. some while some critics claim these increased numbers on the so-called more generous policies of the biden administration, the rising number represents to far more critical factors. first, the circumstances of thousands of people in honduras, guatemala and ireland el salvador whose conditions continue to deteriorate. so much so that people have been fleeing their homes in rising numbers for months now. but the second factor is just as critical. it's not that the people were not knocking at the door prior to inauguration day. instead, the previous administration simply closed the border, refusing to let them in, expelling over half 1 million people in the year of the pandemic. these deportations known as
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title 42 expulsions based on an obscure section of law designed to keep said quarantine measures during the pandemic, became an extremely effective vehicle for turning people back at the border rather than allowing them a chance to seek asylum or otherwise entered the united states. many of those half 1 million individuals continue in their desperate attempt to enter the united states and seek protection and stability. more than 15,000 unaccompanied children were expelled in this manner before a federal court in joined the practice with respect to unaccompanied minors in november of 2020. by the time biden was inaugurated an appeals court had lifted the injunction pending further proceedings. but the biden ministration has declined to expel unaccompanied children out of humanitarian concerns, and recognizing the laws that mandate the opportunity for children to see an immigration judge and seek
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asylum. but regardless of the underlying reasons for the increased arrival of children the, fact remains that the network of organizations interested with handling the custody and care of unaccompanied children did not have the resources to immediately response respond to the increases. children were staying for days or weeks in cbp facilities that were never designed to hold children. transportation provided by immigration and customs enforcement was not always available. the officers of refugee resettlement, the organization is charged with ensuring the custody of children and fighting as quickly as possible parents or other sponsors did not have enough beds space, largely because of covid-19 restrictions. and even now as the government has scrambled to put together new emergency facilities, streamlined procedures in trying to rapidly transfer children out of custody, and into the arms of family and parents, the government is
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struggling to keep up. aside from the very real complications created by the covid 19 pandemic, the circumstances just described are not new the. crisis in central america has been ongoing and propelling more children to the u.s., most notably in 2014 and 2019. and yet once again, we find ourselves asking the same questions -- why are these children coming, how do we meet are the bagel obligations in a way that is fair, efficient and humane, how can we avoid further human suffering? the a ba has published a detailed set of recommendations to address not only unaccompanied children's issues but necessarily reforms that must be undertaken to our improve our enforcement and adjudication systems, immigration detention, and humanitarian protections, in a document called " achieving immigration -- and sorry -- "
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achieving america's immigration promise -- recommendations to enhance fairness and efficiency " available at the commission's website. a fair reform of our immigration system, its of laws, it's politics, it's enforcement are all still necessary. every commitment to the humanitarian values and principles that once made this country a leader in refugee resettlement across the world must occur. adopting and expanding available visa this for both family and migration that recognizes the compelling reasons that keep that people often resort to unauthorized migration is also critical. providing long-term assistance to our neighbors in the northern triangle of central america to allow them to strengthen their society must also take place. the current administration has pledged to tackle these issues through administrative action, legislation, and foreign assistance. but in the meantime, we are faced with logistics 1:01.
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how do we create a system that will humanely, fairly and efficiently receive all of the completely children who arrive at our border? consider the 19,000 rifle number in a different light. in march 2021, cpp took in an average of 612 children a day. the number of unaccompanied children seeking protection is significant but represents a tiny fraction of the number of people cbp encountered every day. the numbers at their highest still represent a small percentage of people who visit stores, airports, major attractions, attend concerts or go to union parks in any given day. these logistical challenges are different, of course. but they remain challenges that many individuals and sectors of our country routinely solve. with respect to unaccompanied children, we face a logistical challenge only because we have allowed it to remain one. where there is a will, there is a way. we can and must do better.
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let's turn to our panelists now to learn how. carly, i now turn it over to you. >> thank you, meredith. good morning everyone, good afternoon, east coast. i'm as meredith mentioned, the legal director at crowbar, which is a project for the american bar association located at the southern border of texas and as probar we strive to empower immigrants through [inaudible] education, three representation and through connection to services. we provide information that hopefully empowers people to navigate through the immigration system and make informed decisions about the cases. we also represent them and a system in their cases in court as well as connecting them to vehicle and social services it if they put to pursue immigration cases outside our area. our primary focus has been to serve the needs of adults and unaccompanied children who are in federal custody in our area which is the [inaudible] rio grande valley border
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region. our team serves children who are detained in custody by the officer of refugee resettlement. as well as children who have been released from custody and live locally in our rio grande valley area. due to the number of unaccompanied children that are typically re-detained of the rio grande valley and within our community, our work reaches some of the highest numbers of unaccompanied children nationally. and so somebody may be wondering, who are these children? why are they coming? so a large number of these children are coming from central american countries, in particular guatemala, el salvador and human honduras the reasons that they come have over the course of time been fairly consistent. they are escaping violence in their native countries, they are seeing family reunification, they owes escaping abusive situations, abandonment and abject poverty, and all that comes with it. we have seen some new trends recently with children who are
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coming because of the pandemic and how it has impacted their countries and services in our country as well as hurricanes that happened last year and how they impacted the infrastructure and reality of their life in their country and so probar goes into provide legal services to these children while they are in court custody. this is critical and this is because all children and every single one of these unaccompanied children is going to put in immigration proceedings and those proceedings they need to present a case under the law to be able to stay in the united states and if they do not have the claim under the law they will get removed and will be sent back to the country. and the case that they present, as i mentioned, has to be based under our current laws, and panelist dalia castillo-granados will give you a little more information about
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what types of cases these children can present. but as i mentioned, if they cannot present a claim they will be returned to their native country. children in these court proceedings do not get court appointed attorneys. so if they are not able to find a printer an attorney, they will need to proceed alone on that one. they will be expected to present their full case in court, and there is a prosecutor in court from the government, an [inaudible] attorney who is litigating on the other side in support of deportation. and so go probar goes into the facilities, shelters where children are locally in our area, we provide a legal orientations. we also screen individual children. we try to do this within ten days of their arrival in shelters. we do this because we want to provide them with information as soon as possible, in the event that they might get transferred or released. or expedited on a fast court docket. at the same time, we acknowledge that children need
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a few days to adjust in the shelter before we can share legal information with them. often, when children arrive in federal custody, they are exhausted, sleep deprived, they are hungry, they are scared, they're unsure of their surroundings, they want to see if they can get in contact with family members. so any, any attempt at that time to try to give them kind of legal information is just not going to second. we need to give the children a couple of days for their bodies and their minds to literally get to a place where they can then be receptive to information. and currently we've been hearing about children who are being placed in emergency reception centers. we are not serving children in those facilities. panelist michelle saenz-rodriguez will be sharing experiences that she's had with children in one of those facilities. typically when children enter the united states, this is how the process goes for them. they are encountered by border
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patrol within 72 hours, border patrol must notify health and human services and the office image office of refugee resettlement so that they can place the child in a child appropriate shelter. that's where probar encounters children, once they are placed in those shelters. and they are in those shelters until [inaudible] it's able to find a more suitable placement for them. they can't release them to the parents or family members, family friends, or transfer them to normal [inaudible] facilities. the goal is that they are in the shelter facilities for a short duration of time. in recent years, we saw in the news how children had been separated from their parents by border patrol. that is very different from what we ever saw before. and that is different from what we are seeing no. right now, we've returned to the way that things were before, where when children are unaccompanied and cbp
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encounters a child and that child is not at that moment with a parent or their vehicle guardian, then they take them in as an unaccompanied child. and i just want to make sure, to make that distinction, that we have not seen, at least, a trend or if reporting where they are actively being separated from parents. one thing, though, that has in the past also amounted to a sort of family separation aside from officials actually separating children was i under what's actually called [inaudible] protection protocols. in 2019, there were approximately about 4800 individuals taken across the border into the united states daily. migrant protection protocols also known as was an effort to mpp was an effort to address this, addressed what the trump administration had then labeled as a crisis that it was having on the border. these particles were [inaudible] individuals who arrived at the southern border would be
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returned to mexico and wait for the court hearings in mexico. this resulted in a [inaudible] of individuals who had absolutely no tires to make the waiting at the border. locally, within our area, we saw thousands of form makeshift tent encampments near the international bridge and thanks to the rio grande red river and those individuals who were subjected to a lot of violence cartel kidnapping, violence locally, paying ransoms, and as a result, we saw a different type of family separation. we saw period for making very different situations to send their children across the border alone. and locally, at our i'm -- glad to say that the dhs has suspended new arrivals program as of january 21st. however we continue to see the impact of it from unaccompanied children. we see children in custody custody and getting released who had prior removal orders from mpp judges.
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children who were not able to appear at the mpp court either because a parent had been kidnapped, apparent had disappeared, and the family had gotten threats and out of just desperation told the child to cost alone. and so probar is working on appeals and motions to try to prevent children who were in that program from getting removed without having a day in court as. meredith mentioned, there's also a process, we saw impacts of that on children, mostly in the summer and early fall. you may recall the news of hearing about children being held in hotels. it was a scramble on our part to try to identify these children, and we defend trying to locate their children. overall, process is on the children have been reset to what we knew before. they notify hhs, hhs takes
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custody of the child and then they work on the release and that child is in each custody, legal services along with other services are provided to the children. however, we are seeing right now with a number of children in the emergency facilities that there is delays in getting to them placed. we've started getting funding again from parents who are desperately looking to find their children. it started in early march. we are also seeing that when children do come to our shelters, they are placed quickly. that has had direct impact on our ability to provide legal services on the children. and then, there is the reality of children being in other facilities that are not in shelters and that's where i turn things over to my co-cast, michelle, to give a little bit more information about which she is seeing. >> thank you carly.
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i can tell everyone that's watching today a little bit about the values that influx center, influx a shelter as it's been referred to. here in dallas, we have about 2300 beds and all of the beds are taken and we have 2300 boys, ages 13 to 17. and like carly said, they need a little bit of time to decompress when they first get here because when they show up here, there at the intake shelter, that is their first contact outside of cbp custody. so this may be the first time that they're able to take a shower or they're able to get a clean set of clothes. many of them, that's the first time they have slept on a bed. they have cots and if you can imagine an entire ballroom the size of a football field and the cots are lined up across
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the entire location and they are social distanced. when we first won in, and i'm there is strictly as a humanitarian volunteer, no, i'm not there for a legal purpose, it kind of just to help where i could because i've been exposed for this type of work for so many years. but the cdc was onside to make sure that all the covid protocols were also filed. and so, every young man and iowa came through that shelter has a pair of clothes, they get a duffel bag and they come with incredible stories. the first few days that they were there, were on the third week of having kids there. and it's a filled up slowly. but the first few days that we were there, the children were absolutely so appreciative of everybody that was there in the shelter to help them.
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at the end of the day, i think we all need to remember is -- in this era of politics and division is that these are kids. and they have absolutely no idea what the law says. immigration law is complicated to begin with, and when you bring in the element of an unaccompanied minor, a becomes even more complicated but these kids aren't even thinking about that. these kids are trying to figure out what is going to happen to me now that i'm here? and if they came with a brother or traveled with someone, that does not mean that they will be together in this shelter. so they don't keep groups of people who know each other together. but we notices the boys have started to get to know each other through their pots. so there's positive kids that are probably 15 to 80 kids per pod. we think there is 46 spots and
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this is how they move from one place to the other. that's how they go to dinner in the dining hall, that's how they get their snack during the day, that's how they go to recreation. so it's a very organized facility. but it's not a typical hhs shelter. this is definitely -- it is an emergency. it's much much better than being in a cbp detention facility because this is not a jail, it doesn't have a sense of being a detention facility, it really has a sense of a center where people are there, the red cross was there the first few weeks, they've transitioned out after the first two weeks. but they are very gentle, compassionate people. and the kids can feel that. we tried to make them feel welcome, that was the goal. many of us speak spanish and there are stories that we've heard from the boys. many boys have been in cbp custody a lot longer than they're supposed to be, a lot
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longer than the 72 hours. some had been there 16 days, many have been there ten days and many boys actually shared with me that their time, they call it the -- or the refrigerator because it's so cold wars worse than their entire journey to the united states. because the conditions are bad and i know that it's a very very cold and when you come from a country where there is no air conditioning, and then you get placed into this room where it's extremely cold and the only blankets they have are those foil looking things. it's very difficult for these boys take just understand what's happening and why they are being placed in this type of facility. many of them are scared. they say they are between the ages of 13 and 17 but i can tell you by looking at them, many of those boys are probably
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much younger than we think. because they have it even really hit adulthood. you can look at a boy, and these are not boys. they are not men, they are young boys that are kind of trying to survive. we help them make phone calls to the parents. one little boy was making a phone call and i could see, as he was talking to his mom or whoever he was talking to, later found out it was his mom, that his eyes were tearing up. and as the phone call went on, it was a full fledged, i could see him sobbing. so he hung up the phone after he got his ten minute phone call and i asked them, are you okay? and i was just going to escort him back to his pod. and he said yes, i'm fine. that was the first time i got to talk to my mom in 31 days and she knows i'm alive and that i've made this journey. so it's very difficult to hear the stories of these young
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boys. there are not coming here necessarily because they want to. they have gone to the point that life is so difficult that the only chance that they feel or that their parents feel that they have to survive is to make that treacherous journey. another young man told me that he had been kidnapped on the way and the smugglers held him in a house and they held him for two weeks and after they figured out his family really had no money, they just let him go. and he was lucky. there is a lot of kids that aren't that lucky. that face a lot of danger coming through those roads. but everything that you hear is so impactful because at the end of the day, we are all human. and i'm a mom, all i could think of is any of these boys could be my child. and they're eager to share with you their experiences, their
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stories because for them, it's a way to be able to kind of let that go and make people understand where they are coming from and why they are coming. another young man was telling us about his journey and it had to in the tiger to make it from nicaragua to the border of the united states. and he said that his patron religious article was the virgin mary because he felt like she had been guiding him on his trip. and through the diocese of dallas in catholic charities, they came in and brought a beautiful frame of the virgin mary and as the kid saw that, you can tell that it was something -- it was a piece of warmth, a piece of comfort for the kids. they would neil, they would go, by they would do the sign of the cross. and this little boy, in
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particular, he said i love this picture. and he said why? and he said, i am sure that she is the one who allowed me to get here safely. he said i was asleep in the desert one night and i felt myself, somebody woke me up and told me to get up. he said and i looked over at my shoulder and there was a snake that was about to bite me. and he said, i am sure that it was the virgin mary that protected me as i came in. so that's typical. that's one story, you know, out of 2000 kids that are in there, all having similar stories, if not stories from home, stories about their journey. and, so i just think that as we go through this very complicated situation, we all just need to keep remembering that at the end of the day, these are children. and they're coming here for protection and we have an obligation.
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we have a legal obligation that has long been established about how we handle these children that come to the border unaccompanied. so we have a lot of work to do, but i do believe that at least these influx shelters are the right start because we don't have super great conditions in a place where there is not enough room and the kids are on top of each other and uncomfortable. so while it's not ideal, it is something that does provide some level of comfort to the kids and the truth is, they don't know what's happening next. loaded with the right. start they don't know what's going to happen. but that's the next step in the process. and in the shelter, their jobs either to reunite them with a family member or take them on to the next step but like poly said, everybody is in proceedings and so right now in this third week, we're starting to see some case management and then the kids are going to
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start hearing your bright's presentation, they're going to start moving and we're going to see that it's going to happen. they put up the shelter in no time. i shelter like this, one of the officers were telling me, it normally takes 18 months to set up. and they set it up literally in six days. so it would be ready to receive children. and with that, i'll pass it over to valley, who is going to tell you what's happens after they leave the influx shelter. >> thank you michelle. thank you michelle. again, my name is dalia castillo-granados and i'm director of the children's immigration law academy or cila [inaudible] undue ambition houston, texas. cila opened its door in 2015, five years ago last fall. wework we get in response to the first [inaudible] increase in unaccompanied
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children coming across the southern port in 2014. with the increased numbers and detention there was also an outpouring of pro-bono interest and and immediate need for legal services. we quickly realized that there was a demand for specialized training and targeted information for all the legal staff at the growing nonprofit organizations and the pro-bono attorneys responding to the call for representation. as a sacred your law student almost 15 years ago, i traveled down to corpus christy to provide know your rights presentations and conduct legal screenings for children detained at an office of refugee resettlement facility. i was just learning of immigration law myself but why [inaudible] had the task of teaching 15 and 16-year-old boys from central america about the u.s. immigration system. it was an overwhelming task and made even more so because we knew that it might be the only opportunity they had to learn about their rights and responsibilities from a legal team. since then, i've dedicated my
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career to [inaudible] the rights of unaccompanied children. i have worked with hundreds of children directly and now support other advocates in their efforts. in my work at cila. even though all unaccompanied children apprehended at the border will one day face an immigration judge, to make the case that they should be allowed to remain in the u.s., as carly pointed out, none of them have a right to appointed counsel. without an attorney, these children and youth will have almost no chance of winning their cases before the immigration court. children and youth all too often must go to immigration court alone and face an experienced government attorney as the opposing counsel. it individuals and immigration courts have rights such as presenting applications for relief, reviewing evidence from the department of homeland security, and presenting witnesses, but without an attorney, these rights are meaningless. it is crucial that all children in remote proceedings have access to an attorney to avoid deportation. and nikole status in the u.s. is a first step to wards
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achieving self sufficiency and stability in their lives. to realize that need, cila provides a host of services to illegal staff and attorneys guarding children and youth through the immigration process. we aim to increase the capacity of the organizations and pro bono attorneys irregular training's by providing [inaudible] resources, answering individualized technical assistance questions on complex legal issues and case strategy, and hosting working group meetings to provide a space for collaboration. nonprofit stuff across texas and beyond rely on cila to help keep them up-to-date as the law on children's immigration matters changes frequency. we're a reliable source for information and training and have become an integral part of the legal community in texas. cila strives to be a valuable tool for all attorneys and legal staff providing critical legal services to immigrant children and youth. cila also hosts a platform, pro bono matters, for children
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facing deportation, to match proper no attorneys with cases throughout the country. currently 13 nonprofit organizations host cases host case opportunities on the platform. there's a great need for representation and dozens of these cases are available today on the platform and are awaiting assistance. if you are an attorney, you can help fill that gap and change a child's life. we encourage you to look at the platform, no matter your area of plaque practice. cila has resources and training that provide support for these cases, including an in-depth pro bono guide that offside comprehensive overview of immigration legal relief available to children and offers tips on how to work with a child's client in a trauma [inaudible] and culturally sensitive matter. these cases are not easy, but the impact on a child's life is immeasurable. if you are not an attorney, we have information on our website at cila academy dot or, about how you can get involved and learn more about these issues. .org.
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we also advise [inaudible] to search [inaudible] that serve immigrant youth and families. the latest greatest once a child is with their sponsor and attempting to integrate into their new community. as carly mentioned, unaccompanied children typically spend a limited amount of time in the office of refugee resettlement. it's usually about 40 days before the reunified with a sponsor, usually a parent or close family member. federal law requires that children are in the least restrictive setting so much children are quickly you reunified with their family. after a child is released, he or she, he or she will have to appear in immigration court and a judge will determine if the child will be deported or can remain in the u.s.. the legal process may take years to resolve and requires perseverance to complete. without an attorney, the child will most likely be deported. an attorney can guide them through the legal process and
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offer the stability that they need in order to successfully navigate all their required steps. an attorney is also an important source for referrals to social services in the community, which gives the family additional support that is often otherwise lacking. as has already been mentioned, immigration law is complex. and the types of humanitarian aid to immigration protections for children unlimited. children and youth may qualify for asylum if they have been persecuted or believe they will be persecuted in their home country because of their religion, their nationality, race, political opinion, or because they are a member of a particular social group. if a child entered the u.s. on comment but it, they are allowed to present their case in a non adversarial setting before the asylum office instead of before the immigration court. but in order to effectively seek asylum, a judge requires somebody with the necessary skills to submit a strong application with the required evidence. asylum cases are difficult because the law has not caught
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up with the reality of claims made by children from central america. but that just means that we need strong advocates to continue to push for change. another common form of humanitarian cased immigration is special [inaudible] juvenile status. this is a form of protection for children who have been abused, abandoned or neglected by one or both of their parents. special immigrant juvenile status does require a state [inaudible] order that makes specific determinations and given the stringent requirement it is not possible for a child to navigate the process without an attorney. with the right help, many of these children seeking for the protection at the southern border can qualify for humanitarian forms of immigration relief and avoid deportation, but they cannot do it alone. thank you for being interested and engaged. we invite your continued interest in engagement with cila but also on these issues whether it be trying to impact policy, volunteering or more, there are many children in
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communities across the country who need additional support to their legal case and in additional support and connection in their community and. now i'll pass it on to mark. >> thanks very much. let me begin just by thanking mario from the epa for having this session today. thank you my fellow panelists both for the work they do every day, and for the information and the insides they brought today's conversation. i think one of the things that particularly important about this is the discussions about what's happening with unaccompanied children at the border right now, often get caught up in numbers. and i'll spend some time talking about numbers but behind every number is a child. every child has a reason that they have made the decision to take the enormously dangerous
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journey to come to the united states and it often gets dismissed or reduced to this conversation about conditions in the countries of origin and violence and gangs and poverty and all of those are absolutely important aspects of the motivators but it really is just so valuable to understand the stories of the children and what they tell us about what they have gone through and why they come here. so for the next few minutes i will [inaudible] and as meredith indicated when introducing the during president obama's's immigration i was administration for children. governors i was [inaudible] mostly with the office of refugee resettlement around the
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[inaudible] children program in 2014, 15 and 16, including the large numbers of children who arrived in 2014 and again over the course of the administration. and the several things that i like to just add to the conversation -- and some of this is really 14 point colleagues have made -- probably i think the easiest way to think about this is that when single persons arrive at the border, they are the responsibility of department of homeland security. when families arrive at the border, they are also the responsibility of the dhs. and when children arrive unaccompanied, the customs and border protection has the responsibility to inform age age as -- the office of refugee
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resettlement -- and the law says the children should go [inaudible] with a 72 hours except for exceptional circumstances. and when we talk about in the conditions add cbp, even before this spring, they are essentially holding facilities, and they are places where you, no, none of us would want our own children to spend 72 hours there. and ideally, the goal would be for children to get to owe our much more quickly than that. orr funds this network of shelters around the country, and as you've seen, this spring, in essence, what has happened is the orr capacity has not been sufficient for any arriving children. and in understanding why that's
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the case, i would say there's a part of it is truly about the numbers and the increased numbers of the children arriving. but it's also about capacity of. and i really highlight two things for understanding that. one is that for hhs in administering this program it's a hugely challenging process to figure out how much shelter capacities indeed. because on the one hand they understand that the goal is always to have vocabulary enough capacity for surviving children but they don't know how many arriving children there are going to be, and there are significant variations from today, from months to months, from year to year, and the reality is it's just hugely difficult to make accurate projections going into the future. so for them, they seek to
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strike the balance and seek to have adequate shelter for arriving children. and seek to have a backup arrangement for children in situations where there is not significant standard capacity in their licensed -- if their license facilities. this year, that didn't work. and a principal reason why that didn't work is that if -- after big backup the border in 2019, orr had set a preparedness standard. they had said that their goal would be to have something like 16,000 available beds and 2000 [inaudible] influx facilities that could be used in emergency circumstances. so that was what they were aiming to [inaudible] . they were actually moving towards that [inaudible] the pandemic then hit.
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when the pandemic hit, a number of beds were probably something in the range of 5000 or so that were -- that orr had arranged to be available, ceased to be available due to a whole set of pandemic related reasons. with state and local requirements, federal guidelines, to quarantine and isolate children, staff absences, the bottom line was that the capacity got greatly reduced due to the pandemic. what it then interacted with last year was last year, as meredith was talking about, large numbers of children seeking to come into the united states were expelled at the border. and because the expulsions were going on, the number of children in orr facilities went way down to -- at one point -- left in the thousand. so in that situation, putting
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it all together, the agency had much less capacity than it had identified as needed for preparedness. it probably didn't matter as long as children were being expelled. but once children stopped being expelled, there was clearly a need for initial capacity, and that capacity wasn't there when the new administration came in. they've been struggling and, you know, in [inaudible] circumstance, ever since, to build up capacity as rapidly as possible. the other thing that i've just like to highlight in understanding the challenges of the current situation is that when children come in, the goal is to provide services and shelter, and then to, while they are there, seek to determine if the child has a parent or close relative or
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other appropriate adult who they can live with while they are in the united states, waiting their immigration proceedings. and that involves the betting the vetting of a potential sponsor and [inaudible] the release then of the child to a setting which is safe and appropriate for the child. and the four arriving children, the vast majority do get released to a parent or other sponsor, and in about 90% of those cases, is to a parent but there or close relative. is the vetting process which is needed to determine if this person says their parents are relative, are they really? are they who they say there are? are their concerns about the release of criminal history doing a sex abuse registry check, doing an interview in some instances, doing a home
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visit and determining who else is in the home. whatever the other factors that might affect the safe release of the child? so, i know we're in a lot of coverage right now there is focus on why can't they just be releasing children? and in looking at it at that, it is i believe everyone's goal to release children as soon as it is safe and appropriate. some things can involve just identifying efficiencies to speed the process. but other places or other judgments have to be made that if you are caught asking a particular set of questions or you don't do certain that if -- verifications, may be speeding the process, it may also be dangerous for the children. so these are not easy to decisions, they often involve
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making this fickle trade-offs. the goal is absolutely to expedite. but any context where they're also has to be great concern about wanting to ensure release is safe and appropriate. when children are released, there are a set of services after release and at this point, it is not an extensive set of services funded by the federal government. some children will receive legal services, some children will receive case management, typically for a limited period of time. there is an 800 number that children can call if they need help or referrals. there is a 30-day final -- it is not an expensive set of services. and in my view, one of the challenges going forward is focusing not just on the
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conditions while children are in custody, but that's a crucial thing to focus on. but also providing greater attention to strengthening services after they are released from federal custody. thanks. >> thank you mark. we have some questions from the audience. i also have some questions to clarify some issues and the first one i'd like someone to address and perhaps carly or mark or dahlia is the difference between the treatment of unaccompanied children and children that are accompanied by parents or other family members. i'm wondering if somebody could speak to that? >> i'm happy to, unless somebody will want to go first, they should feel free. >> go ahead mark, and then we'll see if we have anything to add on. >> so the federal statute says
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that unaccompanied children are children under 18 who arrive without authorization, without a parent or legal guardian wanting to care for them. and so, when children are arriving with a parent, they are not unaccompanied, although what it happened during the trump administration was separation of children from their parents at the border and then saying, because they are separated, the child is now an unaccompanied child and children were sent to orr when that family separation was going on. typically, if it child was arriving with apparent, they should not be going into the orr system. what does happen is because this statute speaks about
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parents or legal guardians, if a child arrives with their grandparent or and or uncle or adult guardian, they do meet the statute -- statutory definition above unaccompanied. because they are arriving without parent or legal guardian and in those circumstances, they would be separated and the children sent to orr as unaccompanied children. my own view on this is that surely more can be done to expedite and maybe to dramatically expedite connecting children with the relatives they came from and potentially find ways to not do those separations and it is i think absolutely the right thing to do from the standpoint of not having another form of family separation. i think it's not clear how big
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those numbers are and how much it's a part of the current situation but every time a child is being separated from their grandparent, i think that's a problem. i would just highlight that yeah, that's not a simple thing to think through about with the expedited procedure was because if a young person is arriving with someone who claims to be the uncle, it's really important to be sure that that is the uncle and to be sure that this isn't a potential trafficking situation. >> carly, i know that probar was heavily engaged in representing families during family separation, i'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about what you are seeing now and how that has changed since the previous administration? >> yes, we did do a lot of work
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with the u.s. authorities were separating children from the parents. it was a lot of work trying to identify children who had been separated and trying to identify the parents as well and trying to keep our -- so that we can reunite them. today what we are seeing is, thankfully, we're not seeing children who were saying that they were crossed with their parents and the border patrol separately put two of them. what we are seeing, though it's children whose parents have sent across alone. maybe they traveled with their parents, they got to the border because of the circumstances at the border and the inability for a whole family unit to come in at this moment, they opt to have the child across on their own. we are also seeing wet weevils -- always seen. unaccompanied children in their true sense. they came with a cousin, they came with, as mark mentioned, another family member who is not their parent. they get apprehended and
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treated as an unaccompanied minor and what we are seeing is because of the backlogs at the border and because of the large number of children that we have, that we're trying to catch up a bit with, the border having been closed is frantic cause from parents, family members who know either from a coyote or from someone else who is traveling. the child was apprehended and they can't find the child. we had in one instance, a mother who literally went door to door to every border patrol facility she could find in our area to find her child. and so we just have that level of frantic miss right now where people are hoping that we can help them -- and we try to do what we can with the information that we have. >> carly, for comparison say,
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can you explain to us what is happening with families and single adults when they come to the border to dismiss island or for other reasons? >> yeah, so from what i've seeing or wet we've been seeing is we obviously don't deal with families who are in custody, what we are hearing that some families are being apprehended and treated as a family unit whether it's a fan a family member or guardian. with single adults, we are seeing mixed bags. we are seeing folks who are able to get in, they have certain claims they want to assert, but we are seeing a large number of people who are not being let in. due to title 42, we are seeing a new tent encampment going up in rio knows, right along our border. individuals who are not able to get in, who have been told to get into mexico, we are also hearing about individuals who
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do get in, they get apprehended and we never get access to them, they are put on two flights to get out of their area and ultimately expelled from the country. and we're hearing all of this through different people that we talked to in mexico, different people who are detained and maybe traveled with someone and also just family ports that we are hearing. it's sort of a mixed bag right now. we do see some people get through, we're seeing a lot of people not get through and we're hearing about people who don't get through, they are put on claims and then taken to mexico. and that they are part of the country. >> thank you. >> i think that there are a lot of perceptions about what happens with the children after they are detained. you know, some people think that they are adopted into families in the u.s. or
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otherwise. mark mentioned that over 90% of them are unified with parents or other close family members. i know that many of you, michelle dalia and carly have all represented unaccompanied children through the entire process. i'm wondering if one of you could share, you know, obviously not climb specific information by general contours of the reasons that your clients have come and when you've been able to help them win wreak legal relief. >> i can start with that question. when i represented children. most of the time it was representing them through the asylum or through the two of announced that its process and the reasons for children coming are often multifaceted. you can see that in a lot of different reports so it can be pushed factors, thinks that
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sort of push the children to leave the her home country, whether it be finalists or their community or instability or in their own house and also full factors. there is family here in the united states who can receive them and hopefully give them better opportunities. when i worked with the children, it was often a family affair so the child and their sponsor, which was a lot of times their parent or very close family member involved, it really does require that everybody be involved because the child has to go to immigration court, they have to attend their legal meetings with their lawyer, you know, we are often asking for evidence so i really just take their child's full family to be involved to make it a successful case.
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and so, you know, making sure that the family has the support that they need is really important to ensure that, you know, they can go through this long and difficult process oftentimes so they can eventually, you know, get relief in immigration court. >> thank you. can you tell us about what percentage of unaccompanied children are actually represented through that proceedings? >> you know, the information that we have come so from a project at the syracuse university, the acronym is trac trac, and they get a lot of information from the immigration court, so from the information that they have been able to get from the department of justice about half of
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children are not represented, so that's children in our communities all across the u.s. that need an attorney. >> mark, do you have any other information about that topic? >> no i do not and i wish i did. because the trac data that we are used to draw distinctions among children, the more recent trac data there is four to one final, so it actually doesn't break it down for unaccompanied children. over the year at hhs, you know, there have been times where funding hhs for legal services has gone up. i don't have a good picture of what it is right now. this frankly seems to be to be an area where it would be great if the federal government was
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routinely reporting this so that we had a clear picture of the share of children receiving representation. but both in custody and after they leave custody, i do think, you know the language of the statute, there is a strong argument that hhs should be doing more than it is doing to assure representation for children and it's a real gap that we don't have good information on this. >> right. and what we do know is that it seems like the percentage of representation increases the longer the child is in the process. and the process can last year's, you know. it's not a matter of days or weeks or even months. and immigration case and immigration court, depending on where the child ends up, could last, you know, three or five years. and the longer a child is in the process, the more likely he
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or she is to get a lawyer. but carly did mention that there is no right to appointed counsel, even for unaccompanied children. and while that's true, there is also a very robust legal services network funded through the federal government and managed by the very institute of justice and probar and cila are both part of that legal network that is national. and for many years, we focused on a model where there were initial services provided in the detention facilities are because like dalia mentioned, children were traditionally held between 30 to 60 days in these facilities. and that gave legal service providers enough time to provide know your rights presentations, individual screenings, followups to those screenings, and ultimately referrals to legal service providers in the cities of
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unification. you know, that, in the emergency intake site where michelle is working, those robust intensive legal services are not being provided. she did mention that there will be some more-limited services. so, you know, it is important for children to have access to attorneys in the communities where they will reunify. we know that the states with the highest number of unaccompanied children who have we unified our texas, california, florida, new york, maryland and virginia. the dalia, did i miss any? >> no i, i think that's it. >> you know, i mean children can't reunify anywhere in the country, and their cases are transferred, you know, in a best-case scenario to the closest court. but there is a need for, and
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the ap a cause for initial report which i mentioned in my opening, universal representation for unaccompanied children among others. and, you know, is that something that anyone expects to happen immediately? we know and we've heard that there is going to be some expansion of representation, post release, which is welcome. carly, so none of that was actually a question. that was a commentary. but carly, do you want to just talk about, like, the intensive legal services that probar does provide, the traditional services at dissension facilities and services. >> yes. anytime you have an [inaudible] opportunity yes. we have a specialized card rate of individuals who go in, again [inaudible] within ten days to give a know
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your rights presentation to the children. our presentations are catered to the age groups and genders off children. we realized that you can't talk to a four-year-old about their legal process the same way you can do a 16 year old. and so those individuals have taken a lot of character preparing the content in the materials that are provided. it comes from years of experience into doing this work. then we do individual intakes when we meet with the children individually. we learn their story, try to understand what were those push and pull factors as that dalia had mentioned. what is applying to this child's case. i can't remember which panelists that it, but it's very much the case that is not a simple one issue circumstance. but these children, there are a lot of things that ultimately lead to the decision of a child leaving their native country and going on a journey that very dangerous, to go to a country that -- where they
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don't speak the language, they don't know the laws, but maybe they have a friend or relative. and so once that's done, if we still have time, if we still have access to the children, our lawyers kick in, our paralegals are assistance, we take that individual and taking information. we do any necessary followups we need to do with the children to get more information about the story. we often have to re-talk to family members in that countries, as well as other individuals, adults who may have a little more information about the child story and why the child is here. while the reunification process may or may not be painting, we start working on our legal case. we start looking at which key claims of release this child may be eligible for under our laws, and which ones that they are not eligible for. we have to have a very adult conversation with the children, no matter their age, to let them know whether or not they
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will qualify for relief under our laws. and then, if we still have additional time, then we start actually working on the the filings that we need to do for the case, representing the children in court. whether or not we've been able to identify the relief, the children's court dates do start, oftentimes while they are still in custody. so we make sure that every child that goes to court does not go to court alone, although we may not be representing all of them, we always have staff there. we give them a little orientation before they go into the courtroom to understand what's about to happen, to remind them of some of the things that we've already explained to them, it really might remind them how to out of the judge's questions, how to speak to the judge -- that's a lot of work. and then we have an attorney in the courtroom for every juvenile docket to make sure that the court is informed to the extent possible about the circumstances of this job. it helps the court to be able to schedule their docket,
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helpfully we have additional information that is helpful for them. and then when we are representing children, we actually do take on their cases and represent them at their attorney of record in the case. after court, we don't sit down with them again to explain what has happened, and what is going to happen next. and constantly reinforce what happened when the child gets released from custody in terms of their legal obligations to continue to go to court. as statistically -- i don't remember the number off the top of my -- head but statistics have shown that going through this process and having this information, that children are largely continuing to appear for court once they're released from federal custody. >> thank you, carly. i want to take some questions from the q and a. michelle, there's one question that asks who runs the dallas facility? there's also a question about whether the children receive counseling and therapy for their ptsd?
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there's another question about whether the children are separated by gender. you want to try to take those? >> sure, right now there is several different groups that are in charge of the facility itself. fema is there, see pieces there, eight justices there. even there's probiotic as. there are detail volunteering to help even in the overnight hours just to make sure that, you know, the security is taken care of. so i don't think there is one unique agency yet because they have not got to that point in the facility where they are ready to kind of let go and put one central agency in charge of one central organization. they've contracted with a contractor to come in and try and take over the food and the care of the children. but right now there's still a lot of other agencies on site. red cross was there for a couple of weeks and catholic charities is there on the
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volunteer side of things trying to get bilingual volunteers to help. in terms of the ptsd, we have tried -- if i see a child that is upset, if i see a child that looks like they need some help, and then certainly we will reach out. there's a full fully staffed medical unit there. but again, remember, we are dealing with children and we are dealing with boys. and so it's very difficult, really, for any of them to come up and say, you know, i'm suffering, or even identify what they're feeling, because again, you are looking at kids that are 13 years old, that don't really know what they're feeling. they don't know that they have ptsd. i mean, i'm sure many of them do after, after the trip. and for lots of different reasons, but there is a set up there for -- there's a full
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medical facility facility including mental health services to ensure that the kids are taken care of if they need to be. and so, i mean i think it's good access at the moment. again, not ideal for an influx sell shelter. but i think that's why it's so important to get the word out there that, you know, we need probe on a representation until we can secure, you know, legal representation for all kids, because when you see a kid that is in this case the cutest 13 to 17 and they're all boys because there is no way to separate the changes in this particular facility, it's literally one room. but there are many places where kids are younger than 13 and where you will be sitting in immigration [inaudible] in an immigration court, and the respondent is literally three years old. and you are sitting there going, oh how in the world can our country put this child, this baby, in front of a court? and the judge is conducting a
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hearing like they're dealing with an adult. you know? and it is, it is amazing -- number one -- that we are still in that situation, but the idea that people don't really understand what immigration courts looks like for all unaccompanied children is important that people understand. because if anybody, regardless of whether your lawyer or not, walked into a courtroom and saw the unaccompanied minor docket, there is no way that you can walk out of that room and you're not impacted in some way, just based on sheer humanity. so we have a lot of work to do, but bringing it out and making people understand, getting the information out there, that this is important, it's a part of the process, it will help the process get more efficient as we deal with unaccompanied minors. i think that's probably the most important part. >> if i can add to what michel is saying there, [inaudible] she touched on some really critical parts the legal
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representation of children doesn't just fit a textbook understanding of people representation. we're dealing with children who had trauma. it's pro bono we have another specialized cutaway of clinicians and other individuals who can help the kids get away to where they can have conversations in that they need to have in support of the legal case. there has to be follow up with the facilities that michelle's going to end our facilities. we have a group of folks whose job it is who it is to hold a hand of the child when they leave our area, try to find an attorney for them, make sure the sponsor or children understands their legal case and what they need today in the cases. it's an effort that involves preparing for the children, having the children caring for them, and making sure they have what they need once they leave the facilities. >> thank you, carly. and i want to reinforce that point that you made, and dalia also made, the fact that the
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family need to be informed and on a board. to make this a successful process. i've had clients whose family members were undocumented told her, don't talk to these lawyers, they are not going to help you, they are not here for you. you're not going to get legal status, nobody gets legal status. and they threw away our number. and this was a young, indigenous guatemalan girl who was in houston. fortunately, i had an idea of where her -- one of her family members worked, and i was able to get a friend and colleague to go search for those types of restaurants and find the family and get the contact and get back in touch with the young girl who was ultimately granted a form of relief. but, you know, she was dealing with family members who were adamant, telling her that we weren't going to help her at that we weren't there for her. and so there is a program through the federal government as well, called the legal orientation program for
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custodians, that provides information and support to the sponsors, so that they are understanding of the process and ultimately will support. and we've been talking a lot about the children today. i think it's important to note who they are and what countries they are coming from. the number one country for the last, i'd say, at least you're, has been guatemala. and not -- and some of these children are [inaudible] mom and i'm tanjobal and cakchiquel and individuals not easy to facilitate and interpreted courts. the highest percentage have quite well. recently the hunter numbers have also almost we each the same levels as the guatemalan and way below that right now is el salvador, you know, maybe there's 35% guatemalans and 33%
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honduras and around 12 or 11 12% el salvador and even a lower percentage of mexican kids. so i did want to ask mark or anyone really to briefly explain the difference when mexican kids come to the border and how they're treated versus children from non contiguous countries to the u.s.? >> sure. there is a very big difference and as meredith was just indicating. the ferry law draws a distinguish between continuous and non continuous. and basically, the continuous countries are mexico and canada and for all practical purchases is really about mexico. so for children who arrive from anywhere other than a non continuous country, basically anywhere other than mexico, they would be referred to and enter into the shelter system
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in the way that we've talked about. four children from mexico and different set of rules apply. and under those rules, they are screened at the border for trafficking, for fear of return to their country of origin and for whether they are able to make an independent decision to return. and this is all laid out in the federal law, so the screening occurs after the screening, the vast majority of children from mexico are sent back to mexico. over the years, there have been reports by both ngos and by the government accountability office of brazen concerns about the quality of that screening
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and highlighting the need for improvement in that screening process but the bottom line is the vast majority of mexican children to get returned after that screening occurs. >> thank you. there was a question in the qanon about whether there's a national database that exists for unaccompanied children who are apprehended by sea vp. mark, i don't think that exists and there certainly are confidentiality concerns but i think the concern was in response to the mother who had to go searching from facility to facility to find her child. >> in that situation, there is an 800 a number that operates and we can make available after the session that someone can
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call if they're wanting to find out if a child is in orr custody. so that is available. once children are released for confidentiality reasons, that information is not made publicly available but the hhs does do reporting on the numbers of children released by state and they will report on the number released to any individual counties, as long as there are at least 50 children released in that county. again, for confidentiality and privacy reasons. so that information is available if people would want to see numbers of children who have been released in their state this year or in recent years or the number of in the county. and i think that actually is important information in
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thinking about service needs upstate and county. >> thank you. >> the mother, her challenge was that the child was not yet in a church i.c.e. custody. so there was no way to know exactly where the custody of the child was. >> but did she find her child, finally? >> i will say that she found her child at a local facility aboard the facility, there was an incredibly kind correctional officer that took care of that mother, showed her we had her child, we can't just hand him over to you, there's a process and the child to get out of custody and was able to get in touch with her mother. >> thanks. there was a question early on that asked about house appropriators who have been pressuring cbp to hire child welfare professionals.
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and it was a question of whether that's happening yet. is anyone able to answer that question? >> okay. so if anybody have here has heard of it, it's probably not happening it. hope springs eternal. mark i was wondering if you could just explain, we see numbers about unaccompanied children apprehended by cbp and we also see numbers about children in hhs facilities, but they're often very different. the numbers from hhs are dive lower than see vp, can you explain that? >> sure. this actually connects back to the discussion we were just having, principally about children from mexico because when c bp reports it's apprehension numbers, they actually don't report the mass encounter numbers so that it's both apprehensions and determined inadmissible and tree.
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but once the bp reports it's numbers, that will include the mexican children. a number that are actually referred to orr will actually be something smaller today and then. that then it is, and we don't know how much smaller typically because there's a time like cbp reports this data sooner than orr reports its data. and so, for instance, we caught yesterday that cbp was reporting 19,000 unaccompanied children encountered in the month of march. when we get the orr number, it will be something less than that but not dramatically less. i mean, don't hold me today's, i would expect that it would be probably something like maybe 17, 000, a little more, a
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little less but the bottom line is that when the cbp numbers come out, they do give a good sense of magnitude but in terms of the actual numbers going to hhs, it would be something lower when we actually see the hhs number. >> thank you. one thing i often think about is the fact that there hasn't been a legalization program in the united states for decades. and i wonder if anyone can talk to how that impacts the number of unaccompanied children coming to the united states. whether there is any connection. >> i can take that, meredith, because i do see that situation happening. the trend that we have noticed in the last few years, especially in places like el salvador and honduras is that many times kids were left as a very young children and they were left with a caretaker, they were left with a grandma or they were left within and or an uncle and some if something
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happens or the grandma, you know we're looking at 20 years now for some of the tps recipients from el salvador, and if a grandma gets sick and graham is no longer able to care for this child who now is probably a teenager and so, that's another push factor that we see and in it's something that some people don't think about is that when you get to be that age and teenagers come into the united states and they have to deal with their parents for the first time, there is a lot of issues that also come with that relationship and even in representation. when you're not going to tell me what's to do, where have you've been all my life? so there's a lot of different factors that come into play with representation and the reasons that we are seeing kids show up at the border. and i think the idea of the caretaker is one of the big reasons that we see, there is
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no longer anyone to take care of that child. >> correct. and there are instances where a child decides to come on his our home against parents wishes. those of us who are parents and know what it's like to have 14, 15, 16 year olds teenagers who has their own mind and, you know, if the parliament has been working in houston for the last ten years, the relationship is fraught because of that separation and the child says, you know, i've got friends who are going and i want to come. essentially what can you do, right? or maybe the parent doesn't even know the child makes the journey on his on her own so they are very complicated factors. i did want to mention that historically at least, about two thirds of the kids are boys and one third or girls. the majority are between, you know 16, and 15 and 17 but
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there are younger children as well. sometimes there are teenagers that come in with infants of their own or they are pregnant. pregnant and parenting teams so that's another population. there was one question -- >> can i just add a little bit on that. >> of course. >> so i think as michel was indicating, you, know the children are very much -- there's a lot of variation in the sense of there will be times where the parent came six months ago and the child is now following, there will be other times where the parent -- when the child was an infant and the child is now 16 or 17. and there will be some instances where people, where there has been a lot of conversation about whether that child should come or when the childcare should come and there will be others where the parent does not know until the child
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gets here. and as michel is noting, there can be significant challenges and needs if a child and parent haven't lived together in 16 years and the child is now arriving, which again, really highlights that needs for services and support after children are released. >> and you know, you reminded me of something important, mark. and something we tend not to talk enough about is the role of smugglers in all of this, as you know, marketers. and people that provide information above the perceived situation at the border. i'm wondering if anyone could talk about that? >> i will say, it's very hard to message against the messaging enterprise. you can be a lawyer in this
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country trying to explain what the laws are and what the realities are, but you are up against an enterprise that has a local ties. there are members in the community that are involved in the networks and all you need is quite honestly one person from your town to have successfully been able to reunify your that lee members or make it into the united states and it's really hard to come that the messaging that comes from that. what we've seen with teenagers, similar to what you would see with any teenager where they want -- i don't have to say, their glamorous it's hard to admit that you failed. it's hard to admit that you made it to the united states and you found your mom and mom is not what you thought she was
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the apartment a living in the united states is not like the movies, it's not like what you see from hollywood about what the united states is. it's a different reality and a lot of children struggle with that and don't want to reveal that, they want to reveal that they got to the land of everything you see in movies in tv about the united states. and so it's hard, with all of those factors to help make sure people have accurate information for them to know that yes, you need it but he's in court and he's going to get removed because he has no legal basis to stay under the law. and you will see him in time. or that he had to try four times. >> and that he underwent some really horrendous situations. and you know, the truth is not every child who comes is eligible to come in united states, some will be ordered removed but a child has a much
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better chance of winning relief if he or she is represented. we are out of time today, this has been amazing, fantastic, thank you so much. thank you all for joining the webinar. we also express our gratitude to the panelists, you are all doing such critical work and we recognize that is a sacrifice for you to take time out to do this kind of informative webinar, which i think is really critical. the section of civil rights and civil justice will provide forever noise and resources for legal -- we hope this helps you understand this issue and your work more generally. and again, if you could please consider turning and becoming active in the a b.a., you may so do so at ambar .org slash sea are sj. best of luck in your work, stay safe everybody. thank you so much.
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tonight
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louisiana governor john bel edwards gave his state of the

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