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tv   The Presidency Sculpting James Monroe  CSPAN  April 2, 2021 9:14pm-10:26pm EDT

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next on american history tv, sculptor gordon trey, speaks about creating a statue of james monroe for the college in williamsburg virginia. the president attended the college until he enlisted in 1776 to fight the british.
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the mosby heritage area, hosted this hour-long event, which was part of a symposium, called james monroe presidential inauguration. as >> our final speaker today, is gordon cray. gordon i go way back to where we realized there was several people on the virginia campus and he was from massachusetts miles from lexington. but the rest of us had spent the rest of our lives in virginia. gordon as a student at the college were interested in its history, and we took great interest in sticking cigarettes in the mouths of sculptures. we also know that said, gordon
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has gone on to be a prominent sculpture. and for many of use prominent sculpture assists a, and many of you can see his sculptures. and particularly the one of monroe. you can see the sculptures in the park in washington d.c., and you'll see his sculpture at -- one of john brown, and those prominently if you've ever been to colonial williamsburg, you will find in front of the college of william and mary, the statue of governor -- lord bonnet. the original statue, it was a little bit worse for wear in 1958. so it was put on file display
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in a portion of the library. . so this was dedicated in the fall of 1993, and it's interesting to watch people, who have been sea and to visit this magnificent statue. that sculpture was dedicated in 2015, and just watching gordon work and been aware of the intensity in which he understands a person to be sculpted it made it that it would be a wise idea that we talk to someone who physically and visually understands the character that we are starting today. so without further do i would
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like to introduce gordon kray sculpture wrist. thank you richard, thank you very much. it is just like old times here i'm going to be talking about portraying monroe, and specifically this is through the vehicle of the new monroe monument that the college you know but i will be referring to older examples, and a lot of the reference materials that i use, a lot of them as out of dan preston's wonderful book, that i use as the main point of going back to references of monroe. so to begin, this is the base of the new monument and here is a, continuous narrative relief of the sculpture here. so this basically a two part monument. we have the relief, and we have
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the statue up above. which is here. now this monument, is due to the generosity of the owens foundation, and they're foresight in getting monroe on the campus of his amata. and with the support ofyelq tay. can the president of the college was behind this to. we realized it was an oversight, not to have on campus a brilliant alumnus like james monroe. as any other college would love to have as analyst. but all these years, all these different centuries, there was never a monument of him, and that we have corrected that, so we are all feeling a lot better about that. this is granite and bronze. come and this is the statue, the other part and the shows
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monroe striding forward, his hand on the globe. and the sword that he has here, and this was based on a lot of you know, this is an old picture obviously of me, working on the sculpture of the blessed mother at saint matthews cathedral, which was referred to. this is marble it's about nine feet tall. now, i will be talking about a leader kim, and how to arrive as at a good depiction of a leader as. this is a marble remnant, which is done by licit this. who is the court sculpture of alexander the great. shs a leader and is one of the presidents of course we want that gravity, to portray monroe the same deal that we have
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here. and of course what can you do without george washington. instead of whereas washington as has a cane here as we use the same configuration with mantra with monroe. except he has a sword. as so he was proud of his military service and he served as a martial as marshall capacity during the war of 1812 as and we have in conjunction with the monroe doctrine. and that was backed up by a bit of force as and this was the portrait that he like the best and he and his family both love this this is a derivative from the samuel moore's full length portrait that was done for the city of charleston.
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and he said it look more like him than even the -- . of course i go back to -- because that's the portrait that everyone knows more than any other. so that will be a point of reference. this then, is the famous path portrait that was commissioned for the new york state. and this i think is the most perfect depiction of monroe, in full figure. it shows him, with his hand on the map of florida, and i'm sure everybody is very familiar with this. it shows it stately presents, it shows a commanding presence. his sword is right here on the table next to his hand. a chair over here, and it sort of a takeoff on the portraits of george washington that
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you've seen, where he is standing with the curtain, and the chair next to him as well. but here we have a green and gold tablecloth. how did they know those are the colors. so this was the basis that i came up with, for my standing figure here. you can see with the takeoff on washington here, they wanted a stately figure of him, and how did you do how do you do it how do you portray it? this is a commission. so when we commission this piece, they had certain expectations. they wanted a stately gravity like figure of monroe. so i thought that this was the best way, using this to depict him here. now because this was a specific work, we know exactly where it's going you know i can
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designed this. so he is looking at the building, the building he knew and he studied at. i initially had him looking the other way, towards the sunken garden, for those of you who are familiar with it, but i thought you know the garden didn't mean anything to him, but the rain building did. he studied and lived there for two years. so east sea him standing towards it, he's starting forward, he has the globe his hand is on the north american continent. indicating the monroe doctrine, and his hands on the sword, in the guise of a cane, but it's still a she's soared, but he can and she fit anytime. and this is the message that we put forth here. so this i want to start, how do we portray a famous person? this is my bronze of pope john paul, at saint matthews cathedral as well. this was the first piece i did back in i think it was in 1979
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or 1980. i had the advantage of going through if you all remember during his election, how you fork it was. and the press was wild over his election. so the magazines, and newspapers were filled with images of the pope. i could go through hundreds of images, and pick the pose, that i wanted and i felt was more indicative of his personality. and people would recognize him. of course, why am i seeing this? because we didn't have that with monroe. we don't have magazine photos, and we don't know we had to rely on drawings and photographs that we have. so i arrived at this with these shoulders expressive shoulders, to express his personality, and energy. this is the more conventional version that i've done, that one would think well, this is what one thinks of as a bust.
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so this can stand on its own, and indeed if it wasn't commission from somebody, that is probably how the original would have been done, instead of this but i made this on my own, and then sold it to the saint matthews cathedral to display it, starting with his visit there in 1979. i was able to do that myself. we start off with photographs, this is the young man, then you go through others, and you get the way he holds his head on his shoulder, the way he leans forward. maybe you get something indicative there, you know when he was a cardinal, you can see is a cheery sort of man. then there that shows his aspect. and here, results in this. so this is just a support on the temporary support. now that is how you portray it. but again, i portrayed jon marshall, and it was a friend
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and associate of monroe, they attended campbell's academy together. they were both at valley forge together. as young officers. and this is more or less what we know of marshall these well-known portraits. but this shows him as an older man. i chose to portray him as a younger man here, during a time of madison, which was right at the beginning of the 18 hundreds. this is the one i chose, this is in front of the oldest law school in the country. 1779, thomas jefferson was instrumental in founding that law school. the shows him here, with the decision of mulberry madison, and holding the constitution in the other hand. this is from the other angle here, and again you can see the face, a younger face than when usually sees. that is largely based on as you know the portraits. during the trial of aaron burr,
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was enrichment, as the portrait just was there, doing profiles of all the famous people, and we have one of jefferson, and other people as well. so he did one of john marshall, and was john marshall presiding as drudge as judge on that trial? he was a think guess i thought so. so this is largely based on that. it's a profile but it's very accurate. now this is an interesting piece, this is my pierre lawful, i did for statutory hall in washington. and there is another copy, which i donated to the college of business, for the new business school. it's a three story atrium this isn't the one that is in a government building in washington. but this shows, as pierre muffin on jenkins hill. and he is with john crumble,
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and he took john trumbull, he took him up there, he has several of those paintings in the capital. and he is pointing at the navy yard. he's looking over towards georgetown. and on his knee, he has his maps and his index finger is pointing to where they are on capitol hill. as so he brought several other people up there as well. that was before washington fired him. so now, how do you portray him? i'm sorry this is not a very good photograph, because there are a lot of bad drawings and paintings of pierre -- . nobody really knows what he look like. only one accurate profile we have of him, and it was done by the daughter and the governor of new jersey. and it's a black filled in portrait. there are no details. but we can see his nose, his
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forehead, his mouth and his lips. his father where he studied to, but his father was a professor in paris and a colleague of his father had done it drawing directly on his face. so what i did was i took these two images, i made it into the same size, drew parallel lines between the prominent features, had them all lined up. i think it looks pretty much like his father. so -- again, how do you do the historical images? thank again, and when i say, i just want to refer to this again, with the shoulders, it was a personal decision on my part it was a commission, perhaps i would not have done like that, but the good thing is on monroe here, the
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expectations on the party are myself for more or less the same. the percent of gravity, energy and stable nice. this is the second part of this memorial, this is the narrative relief. i came up with this concept of a narrative relief because everybody knows about monroe and the monroe doctrine, which this culture depicts in essence of the monroe doctrine. however, we wanted to publicize unfairly to become more well-known among the general population, those aspects of his life that we all know ice issues of mineral, but the general population was not. we start with over here on the left as a student and ending as we go around front wise, terminating with his services as president of the united
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states for two terms. this shows you the work in my studio on the clay, as making this, this is the student aspect, this is the red building. over here, as president, this is the white house, of course minus the front portico. and bull frenchman's capital with a dome, much was finished a late in his second term. so these are two buildings that were prominent for him. this time goes on the monument here. you can see, this is the car to. and this is some relation -- which i'll talk about. but this is granted, green granted and a golden bronze. the college colors. how could i do otherwise? this is mountain green, granted. and it was the bronze to look
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much like gold. again, this is the first time scene here, the first panel. mineral leaning up against the tree here. this guy is a little angry with these three other students because they didn't do his homework for him like he wanted. this guy up here was on the date. these three guys here in the heat of discussion, sorry to central up. and these two guys are playing whites which is basically the 18th century equivalent. and of course, you go to any college campus and you see kids playing frisbee, so there you go. again, another view of it, now how did i arrive? you will know monroe. which is basically an ascending spiral of images portraying his campaigns. this is the embarkation with the surprise since a trend going up here. so, we have the rotating around
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the like we do here, we have eight images, eight panels going around the base. how do you distinguish between the scenes and the panel? basically, you can use trees like this home or something like we have here, two images of the -- one group, second group. back to back so that's one way you divide the scenes. so you some of that, we also use the vegetative over the trees to distinguish on scene from the other. because we came across wanting to use this continuous narrative because we don't want to have the traditional framed aspect that one would see here like on doors. this is horse at the capitol in washington, these are the roger stories on the senate -- house side, excuse me. and one of these all show?
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they'll show the divided panels like the doors. they're all released, but they're separate created by panels. it's not a complete direction like the narrative. this is by mike the famous and sculptor who did the whole facade of the cathedral in italy. but actual as you, i should because of the divisions that he made between the one seen or another, which are vegetative based as well. so we use some of the aspects as well this is a panel from the supreme court these are two foot figures and show you the capitol at that time in the background to shows the studio just three different views of the same thing while i've been working on it. this is a panel from the doors
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joshua with the walls coming down you can see here protect show you that because it's sort of a little relief that are used on the bronze drum on the#9 monument. again, here you see in the studio, this is the state capital at that time in richmond, and this is her generic aspect of what we have today to arguing congressmen, senators nothing new. and over here is monroe, rather in his rises governor looking over again, here is another view that shows you three, ahead of mineral and working on. this is the relief, their narrative relief which is almost done and you can see and hear in the other room, the figure of mineral which i'm just about beginning. this is now the bronze does been taken up to the bronze boundary in baltimore, you can
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see the remnants of the plaster. they've taken the mold off of this, feel the rubber of off of this and this is the remnant that we have, which is now at the museum. these are the two halves of the bronze cylindrical relief. each one divided into three sections, one, two and three. one, two, three. these then will be welded together. but of course now, i had already ordered the green and order to get there in time. it's already cut to the exact size. bronze shrinks three inches of an inch prelim your foot. so if you're dealing with something straight, but we had circumstantial shaped here. how much is it going to shrink? have about that much room to get on to the lip of the granite and hopefully it fits. to get it into a perfect circle,
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i'll show you one of the seams here. this is the car to us. one thing, i have to genie. he, know the genius that comes from class where they overlook a life of a person. so this genie here is overlooking the beginning of his life at the college and there's one over here, you'll see a little later looking over from behind me, the car to shield looking at president. this is, up here, as a figure of athena with the owl. to symbolize education. another view, this is the bronze. you check one against the other. this shows that there welded together mr. cole. this is done pneumatic check, which we devise. all this shrinkage, you can
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imagine, all the warping of the bronze. this had to be strange doubt to something straight. so this is a view of the inside, the bronze is around here. this is the pneumatic jack and, carry my founder, up in baltimore, made these two would informs that we could rotate around to maintain an exact circular shape with the same distance. this is the tape measure, we always have to make sure that this dimension, check that dimension, make sure that they're the same. so, this is the installation and early april down at the college with the base molding to sub base of the drum. myself, i'm very delighted that it seems to fit perfectly here. you can see around that edge. it was a great relief to see that it fit. no pun intended.
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this is the setting of the largest piece, which is the base stone, weighs several times. you can see where they've got a pain in the center and this goes as your hoist attachment, that will go on there. this shows setting the bass drum on top of it. you can see this unpolished area here. this is the lip on which the relief it. and above this, right here, we have a cylindrical piece of concrete tacos and their as backing for the relief. because there is no sense and wasting granted behind the relief where you wouldn't see it. this now is in place, we have the capstone on, the narrative relief, the bottom drama, the molding and the base. now, there was a two-week gap
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between the installation of this base, excuse, me and bringing down the sculpture from baltimore. so, the college decided that they were gonna secretly, there were going to hide its people -- i want to have the unveiling all at once. so they paid a lot of money to devise this box here, painted black man outside. you can't do that with college students, you can pretend to hide something from them. what's going to be the next mission, get under there and find out what's in there. his choice you with the boxes like, and this is just prior to putting it on their. you can imagine, what's that black box? so they're older, they rip the box apart i finally realized, there is no sense of doing it. which was kind of funny.
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anyways, so here is the piece, this is the college, i'm going to go around and show you that different relief, of course the red building a mentioned athena up here. this is the battle scene, the battle of trenton. hope, here there's a figure of a new victory. so this guys in the tree, just to give you a four thought of what's going on during the battle. here's a closer view of the battle. there is the church tower and the trenton here is one gone and two three pounder is that they have is the other one. this is monroe taking command after william washington was wounded first. this is right before monroe gets injured severely, as the others have colder during this battle. has if you look closely, you can see here, but there is snow and sleet coming down as there was during the battle. these are the hessian's by the
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way. tried to make them look as evil as possible. the next panel shows his service to the state of virginia, as i mentioned before, i depiction of the state capital at that time. most areas in the front, some side scares cases. and this shows again, a symbolic of the mines. pun intended. and there is mineral here overseeing this chaos here. disguise had enough, he's leaving. now, i wanted to mention the vision of the scenes, i mentioned the trees before. he tree to finding here, but on this side, of course this was during, how was it, christmas day? winter, bad weather. no leaves on the trees. the next one, there is leaves on the trees here and the capital.
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by the way, of course, you know his service up here for the governor, congressman, senator. okay, so he was not only a congressman from virginia, but a couple terms as senator as well and a couple terms as governor. this is to symbolize his legislate office study held, various offices. now this next month shows his diplomatic career here. his coat of arms of france, but there's a cap of liberty over. this is now the revolutionary government. this shows you a couple of revolutionaries here and the mineral right here is presenting his credentials to. here's an american ship in the harbor. showing you that he's traveled to a foreign nation. down here it says ambassador england, france hand -- now, his second figure his
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william short. we all know who william short? was he was considered the first professional diplomat in the united states. also a graduate of the college hand jefferson was a mentor of him, but he was also associated with monroe as well. so this shows him there in court. this one over here his as secretary of state. he is receiving a foreign ambassador, and next to him is standing his beloved wife elizabeth, who he was very dependent upon for many things. i show him as a symbolic building in the electoral lobby, in the capital. where he has his famous corncob capitalist, you've probably all seen the pictures of that. and he was one of the few that escaped fire by the british. and so, this i think would be
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they could've of the early capital. so it's totally american run, whereas this is a european run with currently european. the next one shows him during his role as secretary of war, which we've seen from currently as secretary of state and as was related to before and he was very valuable, sarah talked about his bickering over with the british empire xin of the troops he was going all over washington. on his horseback, he was leading a group of calgary all over i'm gaining reconnaissance on the british and of course, during the frustration of the burning of the capital, where they got rid of armstrong, he to complete command, basically who was virtual dictator of the united states during that time of the occupation of4÷py.s!■ washington. people look to him to provide guidance and he assumed command
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as after picked it in here on horseback. this fellow, who knows what he's doing, is the looting? museum noting? this guy snapping to attention and then he's got them all working over here. and this guys coming to back them up and we see some troops moving around here. now, here at this time of war, we have the senate and we have the house. and they're just starting to build the rotunda, you can see the unfinished brick work starting to build the rotunda of the capital. and that's what this is depicting, could be clouds, could be smoke, who knows? but there's something a little impending disaster here. now again, this was in august, the leaves of full trees appear. the last tool is assuming the presidency inauguration, march. like right now probably, what date was his inauguration in
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march? the fourth, early march. so just a hint of maybe something coming out but not much. and this is shows the capital, as i said before, this is the white house minus the portico and this is mineral, this is people with him here and this is the crowd down here. i'm sure you all know that monroe was the most popular president has lied from washington. he looked a lot like washington. approximately the same height, his face almost looks like him, in my opinion. i think that's part of the reason that people revered him. he also had military reputation, just like washington did to. he assumed that guys have the navy blue coat fan off breaches,
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which is sort of the other speakers and mentioned, almost looks like military uniform to. people loved him. they just loved him. and his trips, as you remember, he made one trip around the bay, on one trip to the north, my trip to the south. and you'll find roads, lakes, streams all named after monroe. when he was traveling all over the country and he became well-known. people love him, they wanted to honor him. so that is the relief, the narrative relief, we go back now into the monument, there they both are. now, again i mentioned washington, this is something -- everything i do you see from below. okay? so here is who don famous washington from below, and mineral from below as well. so we want that same human gravity that who dylan was able
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to show in here. so he's a little bit less formal, he's turning. now this shows you some quick stuff at the studio, this is the 18 inch model, which was the concept model. this is the beginnings of the full size. here again is the portrait of monroe, which i worked on the whole time i was working on figurine. because i saw things to correct, things that, now i decided on this, was showing the pope. i decide on for him. i decided on having him turn his head this way and not as always he's shown and his painted pictures. but a little bit younger. perhaps along even before his flourished term as president in 1817. maybe in the first decade of
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the 1800s. this is the beginning, you can see here, this is the hand and his fingers. and these are the pipes for support. this is the model hunt. can, this is where you supposed to put his feet, didn't have it exactly where was fitted. as the hand, with this word, and this shows you the beginning of the globe and i had a mock up of the sword, i had heard work make a markup of his sort. how this, i show you again because i was talking about from below, so you see this is the head, miss the topper my studio, i've got a short studio here. so he has to be, of so i spend a lot of time on the order to get the correct angle. so this is again, this is at the saint matthews cathedral, it's about nine feet and it's
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about nine feet off the ground, and 11 feet wide. but, this shows her leaning over, so the face could be more intimate, whereas we move politician up so they look more aloof. again, there is when i was talking about. and this is another one i'm on the floor taking a photograph of the blast. this shows you the beginnings where we're putting the clothes on the figure and here is the globe, beginning isn't mcconnell, plaques of the globe. and he shows you another one, the wires to indicate the lines for me so i can show where the coach is going to go and determine how much of his vest and much of his legs are going to show. in here, it shows me positioning the globe.
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now, this again, this is just a shot of the relief before it goes to the foundry, and here is the fifth government row here and here's the best. i think we already saw that. this again, shows you have he had that i'm modeling on it, and i'll show you a little variation on that. i'm showing of course, for references the exact period, because you know we'll see coats from the, front -- so what happens, these bonds used beware prior during the revolutionary period. it's very tapered. again, this is now a finished photograph, sorry doesn't show up very well. and you say, well was this white? head what i decided to do was because he has such a complicated face, a lot of subtleties, it was a maze that
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how subtle it was. i didn't want to hide all that again on the top of this thing eight feet in the air and on the scaffold. so when i said, you know what i'm going to do? going to cast the head that i have and i'm going to transfer up on this, so i have the exact detail that i wanted and put it on the peace and see the code -- he can't see but there is a globe, but this is basically the finished piece before it goes to the bronze. but what i do sometimes is this. a reverse things. and i took this in a manner. i found over the decades that you can find out a lot of mistakes have piece if you reverse. we don't see things sometimes when you see it in the actual positive. but if you reverse it, and gives us pause to think that we're always looking at ourselves in the mirror, we see
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the reversals of ourselves, we don't see ourselves as other people chose. we see the opposite. so, i always do this with every piece, just to check it. it shows you the finished version again. it's the opposite. this is the piece that i mentioned, which is 49 yard. there is a little hornets this, the mud wasps are always busy underneath the armpits, between the legs, they're everywhere, that might wasps are. and send the marble base here. this is on the front of the building. you go through the building, this is a british forward, you go through the run building on and then we have the american president on the back. so it'll works in favor. that's of course the a persian of the famous plaster, we don't
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bust of washington. and this shows you where i'm patching the head on to the body, if this is the scene of his coat. up here, now is attempting to color the had the same is this, but it didn't work out. but anyways, this shows you the position on the shoulders. a lot of time was spent making that transition seamless so one wouldn't see it. the next, i'm starting to put him on the close, i'm gone you can see the code here. she was one other referred in of that. now here, you can see the plaster head of monroe. precariously perched on top of the body. so, at this stage, i'm saying well, i've got to get his head totally integrated into the figure before i finish the whole sculpture with the clothing in the body because i need to get ahead done first.
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so here he is, it's all melted in. filing on the plaster, adding on the clay. i'm john, how are further you can see the pants, more resolution here. and this gives you a close-up of how they seem that to flow seamlessly. nobody would ever know it now. now, this is a quick side, so the back of the white house. i want to talk about registration of the bronze to the storm because we were talking about cylindrical stone. this is a five foot eagle, this whole surface here is curved, why i did was i took a mold on the curved surface, took it up to the bronze foundry, we had the marks of equal, we put equal on a form, see if it fits. come back down with the park service people and then it fits
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right on there. so you always have to register this, town you can't just make it, you have to do the attachment and that's why i'm mad about the drum training or. all right, this is not bronze have the wax, this is mineral who is looking at his legs. his legs over here and there are going to be willing them together. my nephew from california sent me this. this is a monument to a patron, and there's a bunch of a bunch of more heroes hanging on. i, mean for anybody that works on monuments, i mean it's just beautiful, you know? here is mine from an rose era, there is a german soldier. here's a revolutionary soldier. and the civil war and attaboy from world war i. revenge is sweet. all right, so back to monroe's legs here.
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this is the refractory material that's investing the piece, so it can be bronze cast. . this is the begins with putting the statue together. he's not captured by the british during the revolution, but he's being hung by the chain hoist and their welding in assembling him. now he has his arms, he has his hoard, the globe, and right how he's just a basketball player. because there is no stand here on the globe. and now they're wilding it on. there is his head. now, i want to concentrate on the head for a while. this is the one version of the gilbert still worked. to work was quite an operator, he made a lot of her jeans and
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sold them of their portraits, not only washington, but also of monroe. this is what we think of the classic monroe. looks like he has around and broad head. . and that's where i tried to capture here. and this shows the same sort of geysers this. but a little bit younger version. a little bit more energetic. again, the head looks abroad and i always thought. but there there is one portrait by healed, charles wilson peel, and you look at him frontlines and you, go on my god he's got a thin head. and he says, how is that possible? and looks like he has brought head. but you look at it frontwards, apparently that's the way he was and indeed, that's what i'm talking about. this adult he's in the complications of his faith. and that's why you need to make
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a three dimensional model of it to see if it works. so that's the beginning stages. and now, profiles. most portraits that we see our -- families to pour through phones. only through the sculpture, you need the profile. there is a drying, hudak trying? i think it was mandolin and we have the peace medal which is in scott's museum upright? which was a profile which was done by our, it's our german artist i believe. and now we have a wax, which was done by the italian sculptor who was doing work at the capitol, he did the large eagle relief and statuary hall,
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up there. how to carve history, that was five zone who did that. but this was the eagle but he also did a portrait, so i spent a lot of time trying to establish his profile. so we could go from there. so this is early stages and then back to the three quarter again. now, this is a portrait of washington and i mentioned earlier that i thought i'm with my own personal opinion that washington does bear a lot of resemblance to the head of monroe. and if you cover up with your fingers, most of those sides, you can sort of look at it and see it a little bit. i was often wondering, why do you do this or probably sean rose here's overtime. he knows every portrait we see is minerals ears all the time. and we see that portrait of him as a young man, where he's wearing this style of hair. but almost doesn't look like mineral.
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so, my theory is that they always did this to distinguish, especially stewart, gilbert stewart knew both had very well. to distinguish between them. and here you can see the usual treatment where they have the are exposed. even if they had unusual for years, i don't know but anyways, there were always prominently displayed. if you cover-up that year, you look at the profile, maybe could be george washington. when i started initially looking nestor, that looks exactly like washington. anyways, there is a little aside. and there again, you get a little bit resemble george washington. now, another view of feeding math on. now this portrait is a well-known portrait, it's based on the sandal full-size portrait. i never really like this in a way because, you know, you
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can't see the hair even in a good photograph, we don't know the shape. you see the face, it looks like it could be contemporary haircut, and make some sort of look like an contemporary person. we don't see much personality and this. and this is an all right portion. but the problem, is something like die give spontaneous which is a famous portrait, i think one of design on the 10,000 dollar bill, if i'm right. and, you know, i think you can see, it's not really flattering portrait of mineral, to washington based on this to work, on the one dollar bill as far superior. >> who has a 10,000 dollar bill? unfortunately, they say that a
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lower denomination is a classic gilbert steward, which are used mandala more from our work who this is not ahead of renault at william mary, which is in place now and there is no russian going to see it because it's not going anywhere. james mineral, says the man admiral prize and civic leadership, and this is the generosity of the foundation, this sponsor of this prize take given some 90s, anita fierce thousand dollars to our student and they kept a plaque saying they are on the monroe opportunities. but anyways, they used to portrait and of course, that's the whole purpose for doing
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this monument, you get his image out there, get it known for this purpose. so we were very pleased to see this. this is owned the chartered a program for this past charter day, which is the anniversary of the charter in my colleague from 1993, tulsi at the billing union -- beginning in february. just last month, this shows the monument in place here. so the basis in the fourth actions. one, the molding is a whole discussion itself, the lower drum and then the capstone drawn up here. and the relief and then the fitness -- and, then again i mentioned the currency, we want monroe to be known, we want him to be on everybody's mind and that's what the relief was the purpose of showing all the different officers, because we showed more public officers than any
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other president. this is the foundation that one of the black, to picketing all eight panels. this shows them as a student going all the way through in the description. and ends with a mock doctrine, which is first of a statue. so this is set and the break in front of the monument. at this small size because it was originally going to go on a block of stone, often it's hard on the grass. but the proliferating overtones. so it is now embedded in the brick front of it. this shows you the dedication, this president really a members of the omens family in foundation and they have some spot lights on monroe and we get some lemonade waiting for us. we can't have line anymore outside. this is the.
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the mineral is over here on the back. i did this in 1993. this shows you again the mineral, and i'm referring to this and conjunction with this to show you the similarities see, here is the title card to shove them in a row, this was done, the unoriginal monument was done by return hayward in london and 1770. he was student of the maker of monuments, also a contemporary of him how did the ammonium pit, it was in new york and the one that was in charleston's, columnist love olympian, as you know. of course, so they tore down the statue of georgia new york. now, liam pitt was -- they had some remnants in
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charleston -- the william pit. now the original was marble. could be destroyed. we decided to do it in bronze, and i did through research, we scored the documents that he's holding here. and he has his crown pushing as a lord. so we gave a small version of the, 18 inches or so. we give it to the most prominent non alumni supporters of the college. two or three years ago, we gave it the lord voice. lowered voice had wonderful conversation -- it was the first lowered of the admiral team. he was in submarines before that. but he did research on -- before coming here, and he was
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also admiral. so it was a nice connection. but anyways, to get back to this car to, i tried to mimic that over here but the car to assure again, but this is the american president. this is the american president here, and this is the british lord. so we go from the pretty front yard, through the building, after a revolution and then we have american president on deck. so it's a nice low progression. now, this is from charter day here at the beginning. greening cold the colors, students will decorate, i mentioned that they pride open the box. and, they have to decorate still. now, if they decorate in such a fashion that they don't -- that's good my martial wish in front of the law school, the
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historic director sent me an email in one time my 25 different disguises that they put partial through. you got st. paddy's day, they uconn mardi gras, christmas, how they win, they were all dressed up. students love to decorate pieces. now, it's got that they do it. because they do it because it gets them into the vernacular of the campus. they respected, to develop affection and they take photographs of it. so throughout their life, to always have some connection to it. now this one is from homecoming last october. i have a classics professor that teaches at berkeley, so i had to send him this. and he goes, all along, that's kind of mild. you know berkeley, we have far more serious things than that. but anyway, shows you the school colors again with monroe
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and he's ingratiated into the campus life. now, and destroy zero that he's able to still maintain his dignity when they take his decorations off. all right, i think that it. 20 any questions? yes. >> would you working on? now >> i'm working on a fountain a large fountain design and a couple of cenotaph's to remember some people buy. he s. people >> hardly work with the physics of sculpturing such a large statue? >> there are bolts, about that loan, on the bottom of the bronze. you, know there's a lot of
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photographs and would like to include. unusual holes that that granted capstone, you put masonry into it and then you lower the bolts. it's not going anywhere. same thing with the front. of course, the blessed matter, the marble which is to allow afghans at saint matthews cathedral, that's just sitting on the ledge. so one we had that earthquake, and was it in 2011 i think? i was all nervous, you know. i didn't, move i was happy for that. >> here's a picture when you earn a studio over statue wire apiece without -- how do you do that? >> sometimes, when one looks at something all at the same time, and it's difficult, but
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everything is done in baby steps. and then you achieve complication, just the doing of it. we just don't do it all at once. >> you do the statue by? layers >> violators, yes. unless you do it first in the new, it's not just going to -- because the clothes have to lay on it and went, as you probably saw, i use directional lines for the clothing. i just don't randomly make the folds. nina, you could say it's platonic in a sense, but it's supposed to go with a whole movement, the whole feeling of the body, so that you and i achieve some degree of harmony report tree. because you, know if not that, or not to cast a code and put it on? it's something beyond that. it's a more perfect coat.
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it's something that is pleasing to the view. . you get a sense that after working so long on monroe, the university of how vain people removed? >> i don't really. , like i said, i was portraying something you can temper nation, you can see how they move in other people. for instance, jon marshall, he had a very lax attitude about it. he was sitting in a chair he might slouch in the chair. you might put his feet up. i have one of issues on type. because that is how he was people said it and he was always swindling his tie, always fidgeting with his tie. i have his tie off to the side. you know, a little wrinkled, you know, a little dirty. that is how he was.
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that's how they said he was. they said it drove jefferson kind of nuts. the way he was very relaxed all of the time. he was a lacks learning attitude. the historians can set me right on that. i use that as an attitude to depict and also his robe. the way it was open was not really, it was back on his shoulders. and chief justice rank was the monument at the law school. i pointed it out. whether understood i don't know. yes? >> [inaudible] political correctness is sweeping through the campuses -- >> it's like a liberal fascism, you know. they don't entertain views. you're supposed to go to university and it's supposed to be universal. you're supposed to get all
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views. it's very disheartening. you know they look through a tunnel vision at certain things without seeing the larger picture. some people as you know will criticize the slave holding generation. that was the nature of the times. the man could not change that. that is what it was at the time. they tried to change a number of them. but you have to look at them in the context of their times. and you don't just look at it you look at all the positive things that they contributed. and those are the things you can remember. but you can also bring up the negative aspects to our contemporary lenses through which we look at. i know a lot of the monuments on campus a lot of the professors use it as a starting point in discussion on these things. but you cannot change history. one of the things i did not like was the rent building, they had a plaque of the confederate flag on it. that was donated over 100 years
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ago. yes, i can see where it bothers people. but think about the students ten years from now who go in there never knowing it was there. they don't know that there was the historical aspect of the college around 1900. it's important. they should know it. but now they go in there and they don't know it existed. they lose education. which is against the purpose. >> they replaced the plaque do -- [inaudible] >> it's not replaced yet. >> [inaudible] >> they also removed depiction of the confederate flag from college makes, i know that, it is fine. this retro changing of history, you know, i don't like it. you amended but you don't change it. but that is just my opinion.
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yes? >> so, through parts, recently the statue of jefferson it was damaged on our campus. >> yes. >> to that, the concerns about other statues, and how long is it going to be preserved? is there something toward that kind of thing off? how long does it last? >> the granite is polished. if it's painted, it can be removed. the bronze is coated with a resin. and there is wax on top of it. so that will protect state somewhat as well. it has to be maintained every two years though. trying to get the college to do it, i usually end up doing it. >> so you're not planning on aging? >> the law school monument is the original golden color as well. it was dedicated in 2000. and it seems to be holding out pretty well.
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that is because you recode it, this summer is due for a washing. and a relaxing, and if you do that it will protect the resin coat, the resin code keeps the oxygen from reacting on the bronze. that is what changes the color of the bronze. if you keep that step in check you don't have to worry about it. after i am gone i don't know. yes? >> people do horrible things the statues today. [inaudible] >> you mean the tools? they had the same type of tools. now we have pneumatic tools. okay? which will go very fast. they didn't have this of course. >> [inaudible] i read somewhere that was supposed to be the most
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accurate depiction. >> it is possible. i don't know exactly the one in my mind you're referring to. i think i remember hearing something about it. i know that he himself and his family loved the samuel moore 's. that is why they chose to make it bust length painting. which they didn't donated to the white house. it's now in the row room i think at the white house. it shows him energetically as well. it leads me to think perhaps stewards wasn't that accurate. i myself, as i mentioned before, consider the steward the bellwether of images. unless you have an opinion on that, dan? now? >> [inaudible]
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one of the things is 1816, the 1817 side by side. [inaudible] they don't look like the same person. >> they don't. you find it a lot. that's what i'm saying. his face, i think when artists are looking at it it confronted them with quite a problem. i don't know. from sculpting his head i can tell you there are a lot of subtleties, tricky stuff. that's one reason why i didn't want to attempt to portray the head again when i'm eight feet in the air. i know i can do a lot better just by transferring when i had down below two up at the top. any other questions? yes? >> how long does the entire process take? >> let's see, i was taking care
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of an ailing mother at the time. that added considerably. it was about two years all told. as you can see, i stare at it now, we had the days at the college. we had to assemble it in plenty of time. the shots i showed you of the bronze boundary we were working on saturday as well to get down there. i said it had to get it there three days before the dedication. because the lord, ió in the back of a pick up truck. one day before the dedication. that was too much for me. i didn't want to go through it again. so we've got it in there in time. but the whole process takes, let's see, the bronze casting of the figure takes about five, six months. the stone went fast. you do that beforehand. and then you put them together. any other questions?
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thank you for your attention. [applause]
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up next on american history tv, representatives from thomas jefferson's mana cello, james from rose island and james mattis montpelier describe how they interpret slavery for visitors to the presidential planes. and the challenging questions from the public they try to answer. this is an hour and a half recorded the american historical associations annual meeting. held recently in washington d.c.. >> hello, good afternoon


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