tv Lawmakers Address Civility Collaboration CSPAN November 29, 2021 10:00pm-12:04am EST
it's one thing to acknowledge conflict in the workplace. it is unpleasant but another to dig into that to ask why it exist and what we can do to address it. these conversations are hard it forces us to consider own own actions none of us want to shoulder the blame for the approval ratings there's never
been a drop of rain that believed it was responsible for the flag. i thought of that on my walkro to the capital this morning as i got drenched. we need to affect they will resolve themselves because they want. this midi gives us the opportunity to do that to provide some of those issues that members can find on a day-to-day basis the mission is to make congress work better and that congress needs to work better. and nearly every member what is your will make folks better for those that they represent but o the desire is the reflection of the dysfunction
that is on display. our committee held up planning retreat earlier this year kicking things off why they ran for congress in l the first place there was a lot of hopefulness to open doors for more people and in a strongna desire to be a part of the solution. i have never been more disappointed or inspired. but there's been so much frustration it feels top-down which makes it hard for rank-and-file members to feel empowered. and the incentive structure can feel out of whack numbers are recognize more for racking up social media tips then hard work. the frustration is there. but today we focus on harnessing that desire to get things done it is effective on behalf of the people they serve. the trick is to turn that desire into tangible action. joining us today know a lot about the tools and success in
the workplace they advise business leaders all over the world to understand how a to build and maintain successful teams. what motivates people to produce high levels as well as the connection between job satisfaction and success. the research shows leaders whoca practice ability to take a collaborative approach are able to produce and achieve at higher levels. i ame looking forward to talk how members can apply these principles to theirou own work in congress and move their policy forward. as with the past few hearings with the community rules we adopted earlier this year to give the flexibility to experiment with howop we structure our hearings our goal is thoughtful discussion. so in accordance with house rule 11 we will allow 30 minutes of extended questioning for witnesses without objection it will not be segregated that allows for extended back-and-forth
exchanges between members andir witnesses. i willl manage the time to ensure every member has equal opportunity and everyone who wishes to speak and we have some participating virtually so additionally members who wish to claim pursuant are permitted to do so of extended questioning. okay. so with that i would like to invite the gentleman for opening remarks. >> good morning. thank you all for traveling a great distance to be with us today. and how we can get congress to do the job to solve the biggest challenges we face. it has been years we have talked about immigration and healthcare and spending and we
really haven't gotten very far on these issues it is not the right path forward what is destructive experience but we have to find a way to work together and this issue of stability and how we have fact-based collaborative policymaking we have to figure this out. we really have to figure this out. and this committee has the potential to make recommendations to make congress work better for the american people. this subject in my mind has been divided into three categories the first is times second is incentive structure and the third is relationship building. time is one we talked about in 2019 we had 654 working days 66 travel days. fly in and fly out but that vote that we took on
monday, make sure you are here. we didn't do any work on monday. this week we had tuesday or wednesday or thursday. we cannot have 65 working days every year and think we will solve problems. we have to have a way to be here more. and it's not just physical presence but what we do when we are here. we have committees. then you have votes and fundraising and there is just so much that you can do and generally speaking running for congress try to do everything. when you try to do everything sometimes you let things slip through the cracks or you do things very well.l. so time is an important one.
we have to free up time for members to do their job and to engage in policymaking and incentive structures is second we have conflict with entrepreneurs and those that are rewarded and the people that are looking to solve problems, it is a tough road. and it is not nearly as rewarding. 's we have to find a way to incentivize, collaborative fact-based policymaking to facilitate an exchange of ideas from a position of mutual respect and not use the often provided political talking points. somebody gave me a piece of paper. have to get away from that and to dig deep on these issues because the answer to these
problems is not going to be on one page on paper with bold font. the last is relationship building. this ties into the first to. and it is embodied. and largely because of the schedule. and then to create physical space and the capital and it was wildly challenging to get 12 members to have a dinner on this. it was wildly challenging and when we00 thought we figured it out which is not going to work. and there is physical space all over the capital. you should be able to walk off the floor and have a cup of coffee and have a conversation o about these things and then
and this is the most important thing this committee will do. and i t look forward hearing from you and i yield back. >> . >> and to discuss how those members pursue a civil collaborative and leadership oriented approach are better able to achieve success. witnesses are reminded that written statement will be made part of the record. the first witness is the assistant professor in the department of government at university of texas austin. the current book project rank-and-file members and with
a polarized congress. working for several members on the hill and in district offices you are now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you for inviting me to speak with you today and with that collaboration in congress normally it's a joke of howow can you study something that doesn't exist? i would like to start by saying despite what people think there is a lot of evidence numbers are looking forhe opportunities to work together. nearly every member of congress need some degree of collaboration and has 15 people they work within a given congress and that includes everything from
legislation to a caucus but obviously there's a lot of room to grow. and it is a result of bipartisan collaboration. and that number should be significantly higher. to be presented as a pair of members that are of the past. the average house bill of a lengthy period of time. if it's too members of the majority party workingd together that is how you get things done so why don't we see more of it?
and then to work out on those and over and over again that members also want to collaborate more but they don't think they can find somebody of the other party to work with serrated do you want to introduce yourself. so members work together when you expect to pay off is worth the effort. see howin to both increase the incentive and also remove obstaclesof so in terms of incentives of those more likely to pass but whether it passes or not they will get the recognition. and then may not get credit for passing unless they promoted themselves. one of the things i would suggest is that allows members
to be to the sponsors of the bill significantly increase to let them be more substantive you can even limit to bipartisan then to highlight it is a bipartisan bill other strategies could include the committee chair bipartisan legislation and then increasing l transparency. on the other side of the equation makes itki easier for members to work together and this is where there is a lot of work that can be done members need to find someone to work with and ideally collaboration is a lot easier behind closed doors. but this requires connection which is one of the reasons that collaboration significantly increases because now they have personal connections and relationships they can tap into more easily. investing in who you can team
up with you go to the people you have worked with before maybe you are in your first term maybe your go to guy on energy just retired so the other set of m suggestions is to provide tools to make it easier to find someone to work with. and as a nonpartisan member and who would be good on this issue. you can also set up anonymous but moderated messaging board. also interested in cybersecurity. and then try to facilitate that early collaboration in that regard.
but then the issue of time it's a lot more than the members. the member doesn't have a connection and with those connections among staff would translate and with the working place for staff and that would also be helpful and they still have to agree on the bill what it would look like that this will get over the first hurdle of schooling 435 members of those that could be interested in that brings me to my final .3 is collaborations what if i'm pretty consistently is c the members who start to collaborate then collaborate more which will friends if you have a lot of relationships , members who work together
successfully on one project and members have more extensive personal networks are more likely to know the person to go to on this issue and that will again that is the easiest thing in who they want to work with. >> our next witnesses the award-winning director of regional development as well as the sought after keynote speaker and the author of two books as part of this committee amazon.com sales effort making work work and to go together and then to create and then for ucla thank you
chairman members of the committee staff and personnel who makes a very important hearing. as a keynote speaker and consultant so to be a drama free and respectful committee meeting will travel as far so nice guys finish last. so that's why when i told my friends i was coming year they said the point? isis like the point of showering you only get dirty again.
similar to showering. and is best used when done consistently. and then to be inconsistent without a baseline of respect there is no trust them without trust communication will, deteriorate around rapidly and then for that dysfunction the highly skilled staff member and mostvo importantly the american people will rely on this institution to improve their lives and to lose faith in the elected officials but on theel other hand people who consistently demonstrate that are not only viewed more positively than others and more productive but also more effective as l well.
so in this hearing i would like to share recommendation on how congress can use civility to great more positive and productive productions actually serve the american people it is my hope that every committee will consider beginning into session in congress with civility norms and to be clear this is not a code of conduct that they are created the leaders of the organization but those that will follow the code civility norms are different created by the numbers for the members and that that would be specific and soha for example of those that arey created in the ways and means committee to be very different than those created in the armed services committee. and that is the point.
and they rarely work in the long-term. and in my experience i see much greater commitment to actively practice on —- cracking the norms when a smaller group of people were the subcommittee within the house claims to create those norms and additionally to hold them accountable they created them in the first place. so to create these ideally and then t' be very clear it would be bipartisan to have it to very simple civility questions. what are the behaviors that demonstrate respect to be reinforced during each of the committee hearings? and then actively listening
and show respect for others are talking something as simple as disagreeing with an idea that attacking the person with the idea. the second question that do not demonstrate and should not be tolerated during any committeeno meeting. like making derogatory remarks of other congressmen are on social media disrespectful bodyng language i rolling while another member is speaking rate intentionally ignoring another committee member. this should be agreed on by the committee members and recorded and use and additionally each committee should determine how to incentivize behavior to promote civility and for exampleme with the posting of us ability score on the committee website and social midi media that consistently adhere to the norms.
let's be real committing to this process may seem time-consuming i get that. but sitting inn comedian meetings with conflict and civility grandstanding civility is too important i'm deeply committed to ensure that stability is finally given the attention and respect that it deserves. spent the final witness a researcher and executive advisor teaching leadership to executives around the world and the author of multiplier and how the best leaders make everyone smarter. and rookie smarts and the forthcoming book impact players will be available this october.
the ceo of the wisemen group of leadership and development firm headquarters in silicon valley listed on the thinkers 50 ranking and was recognized with the top leadership thinker in the world we are grateful you are here with us and you are recognized for five minutes. >> members of the committee thank you for this opportunity. i have been asked to share a few of the best practices of what leaders in the nonprofit world due to build and environment where work is productive and people are empowered and deeply engaged and where people find work for selling and i want to start by sharing a few principles that undermine those practices. these are truths that i have learned studying some of the best leaders and organizations in the world and studying the worst. so what we find is even an organization that is deeply hierarchical with very clear
reporting lines and rules the best leaders don't leaders authority. and where peopleh hold themselves to the highest standard. very clearly the through influence those in all types of job and they all come to work when hetr to contribute. it's like deeply embedded to have thatst type of impact those best leaders in some ways simply allow that to happen they remove the barriers for people to make a contribution. and the third principle that people tend to do their best work that is comfortable and intense the leader's job with
there is an equilibrium between safety and people can contribute and ask be accepted but also where they feel compelled and where they need to do their finest work. and as we see from the very best leaders but the first is set of giving them work the best leaders delegate leadership and accountability most want to involve people to give them a say in participation that when ownership is unclear people default to the leader. but with the best leaders do is they give members very clear portions of work so even small portion and they give them full ownership one of my favorite practices comes from john chambers former ceo of
cisco when he was fairly new and then made the first executive hierarchy and said to him and then you get 51 percent ofhi the vote you get 100 percent of the accountability i just don'tst a know a simpler way to tell someone else that you are in charge just get that 51 percent of thehe vote. and second, the best leaders tend to encourage their members to set and achieve threat goals is easy for a manager to assign work on their current ability and to get the project objectives that we find that in that case when you give them goals and its and their wheelhouse the do the usual in ascending. that people are most deeply engaged when they are given a
challenge and that is a question and not a directive and something that f is beyond their current capabilities something that feels like a mysion impossible one of favorite examples is former ceo of the children clothing company when he took over the helm he could see there was improvement with earnings-per-share and rather giveve targets out he set the mission impossible. what do we need to do to improve our earnings this year and soon everyone has a mission impossible goal that they massively overachieve sitting a new mission impossible within four years they had five times increase their earnings per share. a good practice for doing this give people puzzles may
be the most visual example i can give is to the same from the apollo 13 movie. not used to we have a problem but ath different sign. and then all of those that are now filling up with toxic gas and says we have to find a way to make this fit into the hole with that but nothing that these resources. it is the architecture of a great way to issue a challenge give people a puzzle how do we do ask with why with nothing but the resources? >> but they don't know how to do that actually in those people start too find answers and that puts ownership on the team and so the best leaders
speak and they create puzzles for their team to solve i would be to create tough and fierce and civil debate. leaders typically in business with a have fire for the deviant opinions are high and they debate that the very best leaders they do it selectively and carefully and everyone prepared and they debate with clearly defined options. when there is a vital issue. and that we need to debate this is why it is important
and poses the question and then to come back in two weeks ready to debate this. evidence and a point of view. breaking the ground rules and want this to be fierce and for people to push fierce but then defines that asking people to come with a position to argue from the point of view then they start to settle into a pattern to say i want you to switch points of view. amanda you have been arguing againstus it. go. looking at this from a marketing point of view and all about sales and its
unsettling that they are used to and they come to a decision that the team agrees to and it is unclear who was the winner of that debate my very favorite debate practice is the simplest one coming from third-graders arguing debating the merits of great literature. that the leader of the debate should ask the questions but not given answers and should ask for evidence but no one gets an opinion. number three ask every person to weigh in a number four and then to ask people to switch these are some pretty amazing things which opens up the debate that he opens up the debate to other people in the organization's they can observe the debate a best leaders don't assign on the skill set or. job
responsibilities they tend to look for what each member of the team is naturally and good at i called them then native genius is what we can't help but do and they find a way to into that they see so many leaders that do this with the onset of a project so let's see what kind of capability we are working with everyone understands they are genius we are prone too be thinking i think it strange every single group i have a seen do this where they identify then native genius at the committee has said it's the best thing we have ever done. >> the last when i would like to and on is creating transparency. what i have seen is the best way to create civil debate and collaborative practices integrate transparency and put on display.ip
taking over forward and hemorrhaging losses in the billions he would tell you the secret to that success is he stopped one-on-one meetings with the executive team members and established ars joint meeting dealing with issues ass a team with a simple color coding system to deal with the severity and then open the meetings to members everyone was to bring a guest and it was how they changed the ways that congressional committees can put their leadership behavior on display. i'm happy to answer questions.
>> and then to be extent —- extended questioning of the witnesses and any witness he wants to speak should signal their request to either me or to the vice chair who are joining virtually. >> and we all covered three different themes. and civility and collaboration and leadership. and i thought maybe the committee could start by putting on those threats related to civility. >> i presume i presume you spoke about that in the opening remarks and then notion of what we all over each other within standards of
conduct reaching out to a sports coach who had taken over a team that had pretty dysfunctional culture and the rules are what governs us when we are at her worst in norms and culture keep us at our best. so the suggestion to establish some sort of standards is important here is what is tricky. one person's violation of the standard norm is another persons only avenue for exercising the rights of the minority. and we have seenly that in this place recently with every suspension build now there's a rollcall vote. and we that when democrats are in the minority and literally took to the floor and did a sit in and with gun safety so
you can see at times if you see those codes of conduct it is worth recognizing it's different than rules but how do we engage one another that might lend itself to more collaborative approach? so i'm looking for any guidance that you have as we think about this and recommendations, how to thread the needle recognizing as an institution we wantt to be respectful of the rights of the minority and to make sure it isn't just dealing with persistent obstruction. >> thank you forha, the question. since you brought up sports first i am the first of many sports metaphors today but when i look at a sports team i look at a football team and if
i remember correctly when i think of football or any sport the rules that govern the sport there are also unwritten ruleses around respect not just for the teammates but for the game so if someone violates with those teammates those within the so then that they can fight hard and play hard and at the end they are trading jerseys because they can still respect the game succumbing to the house representatives and the reason my norms are important it is conflict with guardrails so when youou see people who are engaging in disruptive behavior there should be some
sort of guardrail this is how we will be working here but also really specific to each committee and subcommittee if this is something that would actually work so in my experience people are more willing to adhere to norms when they play a role to create them regardless of your in the majority or the minority that these norms should be constant and they make a difference when people adhere to them in their more likely to be held accountable and i know we can't legislate but what they can do at the
very least have a process from a nationwide. monty williams said want to make sure i get this right, everything that we want is on the other side of hard. this is hard. is not easy so it will require a process and quite frankly son news suggestions but they want to share with the fabulous ladies on either side of me. >> particularly at the committee level, there is a lot there.
it has been challenging but if it comes down to the committee level to say what can we do to change the structures which is where most member members to their work becomes more manageable we have the congressman talk about when he was chairman they gave priority to bypass interspersed throughout the diet that is a no-brainer for t seen people to sit amongst other side of the aisle acting that has potential to modify question structures as opposed to using talking points that's one of the biggest things in our country today and may not
make much sense but what is the effect of that policy you are proposing and what about this? you and fox news or cnn and get praised there is no back-and-forth. one of the things we talk about d so what is another one what if it was bipartisan? to get $100 you are guaranteed of vote with that same process if you get x percent of the committeeua and to say i'm passionate and i have to go sell it to people on both sides of the aisle because that's the only way i can guarantee my outcome.
i think that you are right that is an avenue for e collaboration and it's easier to get a smaller group working together that tying into the idea of the norms to be some level of prioritization that the few get an ask level of support they will putit on the agenda the same way with amendments taken happy mom —- happen that way. but but in terms of that
structure within the committee hearings moving on to the floor side of things with that suspension calendar is the mainf benefit makes much easier on s suspension you can go all the way to say yes it's a guarantee to show me will get two thirds so allow members with the two thirds cosponsors i'm confident we'll get pass a
two thirds vote that would be made a suggestion to get them on the schedule. >> ium will jump in i have two young daughters and i have learned the best way to have any type of behavior to change is one that you don't want and there has been some talk and ideas in terms of collaboration but also to civility to have a civility score or something you can see in real-time who is playing an active role to get congress to work together on —- work again. hopefully this would this
incentivize the folds youws want to be difficult and be obstructionist. but more importantly it shows what the institution values which is civility and people working together and most importantly doing this in a way so people can see what's moving in on the website and helps to get people to think this is something that has been measured i don't want to be a person who was staying out of this. >> i would like to add to that what is done in the business world for collaborative behavior? collaborating in the business world in many cases is as hard and complex organizations where people have different interest and what the organizations tend to do is case studies.
so they create heroes out of these people. so there could be a lot of power where has it been done well where is the positive example and let's put that on display so let's continue to build this, library of case studies of successful bipartisan collaborative good leadership and civil discourse it's one thing that businesses tend to do it with these incentives without prior approval and then to give them and assign on their door this is what the desired behavior
looks like and is not only fun to receive these people love giving these kinds of awards. was power and doing something that simple. >> we have a flurry of hands that just went up? >> thank you mr. chairman that then youin heard me say in the 25 years from the legislature from the general assembly and you have cooperation in the collaboration and the camaraderie. and working together it's a tough world out there and what
you mentioned in your opening statement but it's getting to know one another and to be very difficult. and then just to get your thoughts on to live where people be the school on the bottom of their tv from their hand held device in less than 30 seconds but not delving into it. but when you take away the thoughts where we are with the internet and instagram and twitter and facebook, how do we get out there to make sure we are working with each other? i objected when the cameras were outside the house floor and it seems like members way go out right in front of the
tv camera. in the way that we address each other we had a rule you could never address the adjuster they were from and to keep things on a nonpersonal basis but in this instant world that we are in today have you see we can get the stability? and with no people having that ability how do we address that? thank you i will take that. >> it is so interesting when we talk about time. and we have to be creative and we think about time and how we use it within the institution
may be quite frankly outside of it. so creatively speaking and amusing that word intentionally because i don't think this is happening now but the idea folks from either side of the aisle could invite a person from the opposite side of the aisle out to dinner. i want to be very specific this isn't just an idea of let's go has dinner was someone from another party but it is very intentional want to be clear when i say this so the idea behindd this to make this work astt hard have time to have multiple committee meetings for what would be great is that you can have a dinner once a month that is expensed by this institution not the $7000 dinner we are talking about any opening remarks or something $50 or
whatever makes the most sense but whatever is most important is you have an opportunity to connect with someone is not really based will you sign off on this bill and things of that nature but to have an opportunity based on relationship building a vice chair was mentioning in the open. it should be branded and this is important call it something. may be a jefferson dinner. i will take someone out on a jefferson dinner but the idea behind this is when you brand something you give it a name there is the expectation behind it. so when we have this dinner the expectation is i will take someone from a different party and have dinner expensed on institution to get to know each other to build that trust away from the cameras.
and with the cable news station. look at why did. this is around getting people to understand each other to humanize those to take the time to build those relationships. but maybe most importantly once you find the friend on the other side of the aisle it should be a new person every month to get the expense. it is a very simple and powerful way. businesses all overis the world use this as an opportunity to get to know each other and i am surprised it is not built into this institution knowing that it works but then you can create to go deeper and alleviate the challenges over time. i have more but i will stop there. >> i would like to add something to this. it is no secret there is a lot
of performance going on for cameras, social media, constituents. and there is some interesting be donerfhat could , how do you allow people to perform for a different omaudience? i know there is the practice of allowing schoolchildren to watch. i wonder what would happen if committee meetings were open not just to whatever classes that with that active outreach to bring in the middle school field trips but to look for teachable moments. as they are codified but here is a leadership with collaborative and productive leadership what does that look t like?
give that to each kid that sits down may be make a bingo card or a checklist to put a circle every time you notice that behavior. the behavior would change. and then to talk to the school that has come down what it means to be a steward and not just a representative of geography and a constituency but of the democratic process and the higher obligations so if you create and audience of people value people will perform at their best. and there is a slew of external executive coaches who
i'm sure would be happy to come on a pro bono basis and observe and coach and lead to be the very best. but i like the bingo cards for the school kids. >> i will add to that now i'm sad i didn't get my bingo cards for the year. [laughter] >> and part of the problem with congress is the kids don't play on the sameu baseball team and they don't live heree anymore. but i feel like we are so hung up on these conversations that we don't hang out and were not friends but nobody thinkshe about how do we adapt to the new world with new ways to have the conversations?
this is one f of the reasons because the staff are here ands. then to make the connections between members. yes and just generally it's also why part of it is to have a lot of these conversations behind closed doors and then come out as a joint united front rather than here is an idea. and instead come out as a united front to take joint ownership. >> .
>> just to put these in a silo i am not sure civility and collaboration and leadership are all part off the same thing. so going back tooi the sports analogy, two of the fiercest competitors are the leaders of the team peyton manning and john elway. they wanted to end. period. . . . . pick a couple oy
committees where i have the pifiercest competitive leader in one committee versus a more collaborative leader. in the setting that we have, we are sort of in the game the whole time. how do you manage that aim to and bringout of civility and the cooperation iue guess that is my question the majority of members are mostly focused on creating
policy solutions will and the majority are focused on that and and that's where i see the role of collaboration being impactful is getting those rank-and-file members who are less concerned about the fighting going on and working together making these connections into because like i saidge there's collaboration tht facilitates more collaboration so if you have these members concerned about policy working together and then they are successful, other people will try to imitate that behavior and expand the value, the norm of collaboration i know there's an
office in colorado and the idea is when you talk about john elway and peyton manning, the two things is they also are not justst fierce competitors but ty did something that could be duplicated in the institution. the one thing that could help interrupt that is the intraparty policing where there is someone willing to say let's remain within these guardrails and willing to see this is not okay. i understand that you are fierce but to get on social media and run to the said news network and
start to disrespect or humiliate someone is not advancing this cause. the idea is this is going to require people to put their neck out a little bit. if you are in a safe district where you are most likely to be elected over and over again because for whatever reason there's less of a willingness to want to engage but the idea is if someone from the party chooses to hold someone accountable, that is what peyton manning did and john elway. they went to the situation and evenon tom brady --
[laughter] the tampa bay buccaneers after they werepa a horrible team in e year turned them around and i think it's because the inside of the team there is a spirit of accountability that i think sometimes is absent in the partisan bickering that we see so often. >> it's interesting i mentioned i talked to the sports coaching tod he talked about they have a player's counsel where it's that type of holding each other yaccountable. it's basically a peer pulling elyou aside saying we don't reay do that here. i wonder if there's a way to structure something like that in congress. if emanuel cleaver came up to me and said you were outside of the lines here, that would change my
incentivized to bring that team health might be accomplished. i understand the business world has a model but i don't think that the leadership dynamics were any different that people are people, however, it creates a different dynamic because in the business world as well as the nonprofit it tends to be a unifying leader and in this setting there's an absence of a single leader competing teams which means it has to come from with the organization.
d so much of my work is studying power inside of organizations and i've been thinking a lot about this question over the the month and at the conclusion i come to is probably a conclusion everyonene in the room has alrey come to but i want to share it anyway. in absence of a unifying force, and ifo. the peer-based leadersp dissolves, people need to clear leadership and i think what's happening is as a country, we will trend towards authoritarian leadership. we will see this vacuum is filled. if it isn't filled in congress it is going to be filled more and more. people like me see the
peer-based unifying leadership the voters are going to want to have leaders that are authoritative and this is a disturbing trend i don't think we want to see that on any party. that's probably an obvious conclusion but if that is the only conclusion i can come to and that the troubles all of us. the resource i would point you to i am a member of the advisory board i've been serving for the last two or three years and at the leadership model that takes some of the best thinking out of
the business world. this iss what good leadership looks like ins this context ani think we will be talking to some members of that group next week cobut i would encourage you to look at that model in particular. that is a really hard thing to do frankly. you elect party leaders whose job isa to keep your party or t your party into the majority. those are the ones you think are going to be giving the party the majority, and that requires distinguishing yourself from the other party and so on and so forth. i'm not sure thehe right idea is to kind of change how the leaders are but i'm into this
council of elders. another new leadership position. it is a little more bipartisan. it's absolutely a bipartisan position and have that be someone who is providing setting this norm of collaboration and a voice that isn't necessarily being partisan, the party leaders or higher staff member. >> can i add one more thing. i think to be reimagining around who is the audience, we have to think about this more deeply.
we have an idea that the base that theor people on twitter who make up 20% of americans according to the pew research are actually on twitter so that's not your audience, that is the most vocal minority speaking up and there's the need to placate those people and a way to move the conversation towards the fringes to satiate the base about what would make more sense is to see the audience and the remaining 80 plus% of people who may consider voting for you and may consider working for you and pushing your agenda if you were to behave in a way that would be more civil and thoughtful and can engage more people, it would be time to reinvest about and think about it differently.
we have plenty of children already i would argue. there's so much to impact. i was reading the chair man's tweet this morning and he wrote research shows the readers that practice civility and to take a collaborative approach to achieve at higher levels and have come from the private sector myself, that's exactly how things worked until i got to congress and i thought a lot i about this. 435 of us and if we were in a private enterprise or business, surely each of us would have been fired for insubordination at one time or another but only in a handful, clearly if there was accountability would be terminated for poor behavior growing up in a household we had a parent that provided accountability and we had a teacher or principal and in business we have a boss.
here as i reflect on the reward systems to all of the respective points it is antithetical, it is the opposite reward which is terribly confounding to me. it's pretty clear on both sides of the aisle. a couple of questions and one reflection i think we have thish happening in america we've got entertainment on one and and then we have gerrymandered districts as you reflected on i want to better understand the psychology behind why both americans might be electing the dividers and why in congress we seem to be elevating people and
then secondly what if hypothetically there was a third caucus how would that change the behavior in the institution, a combination of thoughtful democrats oran republicans perhs that would be a triangulation, would that change anything in the u.s. congress? psychology behind why. i can speak to the psychology of why one of the things i study is leaders like all multipliers and those that are capable but have a diminishing effect on others tend to be very divisive leaders and often they have staying power and success and i spent a lot of time trying to understand why people keep working for them and follow them and i think it addresses a couple ofep your leconcerns. what happens is when people feel
voiceless and feel like their voice is not being heard, nobody is listening to me. i'm going to get behind a someoe people are listening to and in some ways up for this person, this is my only avenue and it's what happens in the business world as people tend to follow them. the other dynamic that we see in the private sector is that these leaders tend to have a diminishing effect on others and others get intellectually weakened around them. i will just leave her to thinking to them but let them do the hard stuff and i will just sort of be hands and legs and people become less capable around these leaders to depend a
con any kind of influence and i think it is a very disturbing cycle and i see it happening all the time in the workplace. what happens if there is a 13 and the construct like this, what do you think? >> it gives more options and you don't have a mortal enemy and you have to form -- i don't want to purport that i know anything about the political process but it creates more problems and more like a market system perhaps but i don't know, this isn't my expertise to think i'm obligated to jump in here.
and that's going to require members of both parties and so that is an element that focuses on breaking out of the coalition if you emphasize that aai little bit more. it depends a lot on the districts thatt they are running in thinking about the incentives and districts that there definitely is a line between the safe districts, the strong partisan districts where there is if not a disincentive for the
members that represent districts where it's not even just marginal it went up about 60% of the vote, 50 to 60%. the members who collaborate more withua more robust networks do a little bit better in their elections. if they are a little bit more moderate than the voters end up in the collaboration but when g the district is 80% democratic or republican, they want those positions and nothing else will deal. >> idc we correlation between the districts. can i take a quick stab at those questions? adding on to the point about why people follow leaders who may be divisive in some sense i think the easiest way to look at this is when you see bad behavior,
bad behavior is an unskilled expression of an unmet need and i will say it again all bad behavior is an unskilled expression of an unmet need, so they are needs that are not being met and the skill to meet those are not developed, so often times you will find a figure that is able to engage and without the skills to manage those that are not being met it's easy to follow someone like that. a second, and this is outside of my expertise, the idea of adding a third potential party to the table to speak. my initial response was i don't see how that could truly fix everything having a dysfunctional couple and they are married and it's like we should have a child. that's going to fix everything. and i don't know if that would.
the reason why i think about that is i think about how adding something to a situation that is already dysfunctional without finding some tools that were going to repair the current dysfunction will be aided by adding something additional to it if that makes any sense. when there's triangulation it forces you to get anything done. anyway, thank you. >> you have so many problems and you've been very articulate giving us some reason to
contemplate ways people can function better. we have multiple influences and they want to become a national personality. if i ran around this building i would get a significant coverage. we have these policies and so that's a part of it nobody wants to talk about because they don't want the media to get mad at them. the good news is a major news
i'm not going to mention them because we have a lengthy meeting but what they are interested is something you talked about and i've talked about in the committee. they want to figure out a way that a particular news outlet can measure civility among members and recognize members by every group in the world. labor and the chamber. they are interested and we ran into a problem they are thrilled
to see the media outlet was wanting to do something to turn down the volume. the problem that we ran into this was going to be difficult by personality by their nature there is a lot of members who are never heard because they just kind of do their work, get on the plane and go home, do their work at home, come back and they are not going to be recognized by the media so if you say they are the ones who have the greatest level of
civility it's probably not a good way to measure others. i said to them using a sports analogy is a creative way to do it because you can hit 450 in baseball but if you did not come to bat a certain number of times, you can't win the championship. there's a certain number at best that you have to have in order to be a part of the statistics. so we were not able to get past that in the conversation. i just want to throw that out to you and finally, there are a lot of members on both sides of the
aisle. i had ai friend who said you qt writing the letters for the new members. i wrote to all 435 and then i was in new york over the weekend and another member came to me and said you are the problem. so i started again. i did one letter two days ago so i know that there are a lot of people who want things to be better and they don't celebrate people making a nasty remark. but on the other side, if you have any ideas on the system of measurement, i think this particular news outlet is really interested in doing this because they spent a lot of time with me
twice and probably watching the meeting becausepe that is where they first got the idea. >> i don't have an answer yet how to manage civility but i did make a note for the next project.di you raised several excellent points that first and foremost, the media is driven by conflict. ilt will say that it gets coverage. it's covered in a certain way like a rare show of bipartisanship.ti the number of headlines on the "washington post" and "new york times" makes it kind of clear it isn't all that rare, but if it gets writing about it, that's
great. so when they are successful i think it does get attention and having members have legislation that has two sponsors, democrat and republicantu would help andt would also get all kinds of scores s to calculate on this se of things. but the other thing is there's a couple of scientists at the university of illinois that have done work in classifying members by your behavior in terms of not civility but in terms of your actions and how to fund raising to votebu with your party, so on and so forth. the vast majority of members fall into categories that don't get any attention.
the vast majority are policy longs. it is a big challenge. >> i want to add something to that. there is a reason why the media covers conflict. we are interested in conflict. we are drawn to this. it's interesting. it's compelling. rather than try to page that and double down on it, which is a great movie and something we are
fixated on is all about conflict. no one wants to watch a movie or read a story that lacks conflict but what we love even more than conflict is conflict t resoluti, and i wonder if there's a chance to tell stories about conflict and then say here's the conflict, here's how we were at odds in the no-win situation, and here's how people came together to resolve that. these are stories people want to read, these are case studies that would get attention so i would play up the conflict and add the resolution piece to it and i thinkin we could get a lot of attention for it. >> i want to echo what you just said. so grateful that you said that because i know that the media set up in a way to attract people to drama, but i will be just for my own personal experience i feel like i'm
pretty dialed into the civility stuff. i've never heardit of the committee prior to a month ago and the work that you all do is so meaningful and so powerful and quite frankly, when i told my friend i'm going to be testifying on capitol hill, there is an amazing select committee on the modernization of congress that is doing work to make theye congress work. there is agr responsibility, ani don't know on your websites if you have this friend hand center, something people can see so they aren't aware of the work you are doing. it could make a huge difference to know that there is hope onth the horizon, there are peopled that understand the problem because i will tell you on the ground this is the way congress broken.
have to end that way and the millions of people watching know how it's going to end, yet the overwhelming majority watch it from thanksgiving to new year's and they already know how it's going to end. people are hungry for things to work out well, and that they enjoy it and celebrate it. i don't want to get him in trouble, i have a friend that is at republican and i said to him the other day we were someplace and i was scared to say anything because i didn't want you getting death threats.
i have two people in prison now. we talked about it yesterday. i don't want one of my friends to end up getting threats, and that's where we are right now in the country. you have violated the rules of the tribe and therefore, we are going to attack you and call you and tell you what we are going to do to your children and so forth. i think there is a hunger for it butt if we allow this to get further and further out of control, i have a little 6-year-old grandson that i love more than i love myself most of the time.
i actually fear right now what my little 6-year-old is going to experience in the country, so i appreciate you beingac here ande have to get out of this thing where we can't even acknowledge relationships. thankin you mr. chairman. >> it does not solve the problem of death threats, but in terms of talking about the homework movies, i think one of the m reasons the hallmark movies are so popularar is because everyone knows for that one month you can turn on that one channel and you will get a feel good movie but you could imitate that behavior in congress where you have a sort if this is the bipartisanship month or the week or whatever it endspa up being,
where if you had a week that was focused on bipartisanship and collaboration and centralize all the activities around that theme, that's going to be an easy way to get attention from the media in terms of these small bills but if you do an entire week of it you could then capitalize o. >> and you could play it right after shark week. [laughter] >> i feel like this is the time i should thank c-span for being here. >> they did a week covering the work of the committee and as you could imagine it was ratings gold. [laughter]
i appreciate the work of the committee but it's incumbent on all of us to take those responsibilities of reaching out and being everything that we talk about, being accountable and collaborative. this has been an interesting time as anybody in the room will acknowledge. my third day we had january 6tht we have a lot of different characters on both sides of the aisle but i'm just looking across the table.
yesterday we signed a deal and i didn't have a letter next to my name. people knew where my kids went to school and where i shopped. we were very accessible so i think we look at it differently we want to be productive. i don't know anybody here that is just wanting to be on c-span. i think a lot of people come here with ideas of what we want to do and did this means working collaboratively. you convinced me to join the congressional softball game. thank you very much for the 7 a.m. practices but those opportunities we are creating. it's not having a month we are doing it. last week i was in minnesota
with dean phillips talking with people in his district to find the commonalities and what our businesses around the country facing. i am in texas, he is in minnesota and they are facing the same things. i look forward to having you in texas to do the same type of meetings. i think it's incumbent on all of us to have opportunities to do that. we may not be in agreement on a lot of our votes but i'm trying to find ways we can work together. as a aay freshman i may be naïvo do these things. time will tell if they are effective but i think it's important that we recognize we are here to do a job. >> i don't know if those are interesting ways but what are your thoughts on some of those
ideas? >> i think that is the essence of leadership, that is my thought. >> i was in your district and had an opportunity to speak to the convention center and there was a moment where i saw the academy of civility in terms of what i would see there was a moment where something went wrong from this perspective and the amount of people that didn't point fingers, it was hard to explain because there was no republican, democrat it was just let's work together to make sure this goes offit without a hitch.
i've always found that the leadership comes up in moments of crisis but i also want to see how this can continue in moments of a regular thursday or just the normal way of operating. i think we can get there. i wanted to mention sorry about the fear you shared about your grandson and potential deathou threats and for admitting that you are hanging out with someone across the aisle as she was talking about going to mr. phillips district in minnesota to have the opportunity to connect and now it's on c-span but we have to normalize this.
as hard as it is to feel like i wouldfo rather keep it private r fear of these things if we normalize there's nothing to be afraid of having people across the aisle i think we can begin the process of making meaningful change. >> part of the problem is agreeing on what the problem is. obviously the solutions are going to vary. if you start by doing the fact-finding and work together to come around on the problem and collaborate on solutions the other thing i would say a lot of work could be done to make it easy to find members to work with especially in the first term who don't have the robustr
connections other senior members have and i think that utilizing the infrastructure that currently exists is one place to facilitate that but even if it were just resume makes things very challenging right now but having these to get people to meet each other once you get more personal connections they built upon themselves and i think that . >> being oriented in a pandemic we can also use orientation. that's an opportunity to set some norms around civility and that could be a great opportunity as well.
>> one of the it's not just current incentives it's actually sometimes hard to find who do i want to work with on this. i keep thinking there are lessons to be learned. i worked for a consulting firm that have thousands of people around the world and i could sal who's got expert, i could literally go on to say who has expertise on this subject and similarly, i don't think anything like this exists in congress, where i could come in and say i am a new member i want to work on veterans housing issues. are there other members that have self identified as wanting to work on that were rural broadband or reducing debt or whatever. it does seem like something like
that would be useful in being able to identify the staff person on your team who would be the point of contact for something like that. is that kind of along the lines of what you were thinking about? [laughter] >> that is what i was thinking. on theid similar lines, if all f the members set up profiles like here are my priorities of things i'm interested in working on and here is my staff contact for whthose, it is a different presentation then you put out because it would only be for internal use, but we do this in academia where it's like i'm looking for someone to collaboratee with so that would translate very well.
>> when i got sworn in, one of the coolest experiences i had was a dinner in statuary hall and it was all the republican freshman and the marine corps band was there and it was very formal and just a cool experience. i know the freshman republican, they are some of my closest friends in congress and i have a relationship with all of them. i don't have that on my committee, and i don't have it onto the same degree even close with the freshman democrats from my years, so we are talking a lot about the opportunities and we previously discussed the idea of having annual committee dinners into the library congress has a lot of space and i don't think it's reasonable to open up for that many dinners,
but the multiple spaces within the library of congress, and you could host for the financial services and invite the entire committee and then you bring in people that you anticipate would be speaking. there is no agenda, it is a low hanging fruit but there's also this opportunity of issues. the ten, 20, 30 issues that are important to everybody. why not have a dinner just to get to know people if you care about immigration to share a
meal together and make sure i think everybody could agree this is something that should be going on that's not so this is something we should spend time looking at more. i don't know where they would go. somebody is going to have to be in charge of making sure all the committees are scheduled right. we don't even populate until acertain time so there's all ths scheduling, then you a have to make sure there's no conflict, but it'sso doable. that is a direction that came out of everything we just talked tsabout. any thoughts on that idea. it seems we are taking
everything we talked about and puttingti it into an action ite. >> i would happily jump in on that. i love the idea of the dinners and having an opportunity from different people to having an opportunity to connect. there is something humanizing about breaking bread and this has been since the beginning of time where people connect more deeply when they have an opportunity to share a meal together. on that vein i would also share something that could be a potential recommendation and useful from the business world is,, and liz talked about this but it's a little bit different. it's bring your child to work day. let me explain, not necessarily bringing your child into a committee hearing, but having an event once a year where, because i know the challenges where
people don't live in the ivdistrict anymore. so bringing your family here for a period of time where they could have an event where it's bipartisan and there's speakers and teaching events but most importantly, lawmakers and their children and at an age-appropriate event or things they can enjoy it builds the trust that is lacking where people can feel like my kids get their kids and there is an opportunity to do this. it will help people understand what their parents do for a irliving but may be more importantly, it will remind lawmakers to set positive examples to their children and have an opportunity to connect to people who may ideologically think a little bit differently from them and i think it is a powerful way to begin the
process and it gives people something to look forward to on a bipartisan basis. >> i would also suggest in trying to make it for the committee to get together, if you made it so that it was a small dinner like eight members it would also create some scarcity and that could also get people a little more excited if it's harder to get into the dinner and so it becomes something that they want to do but haven't had the chance to do so shows their participation in the schedules. >> we have spoken about this pretty regularly, the physical construct of q the hearing is remarkably unique in congress. we are facing each other instead of backs against one another and we are on the same level.
you testified with all of us, democrats and republicans. you think the physical construct perhaps of how we do the hearings and to conduct the meetings might even change. it's a little harder to be rude to someone feet from you. >> 100%. of the idea of seeing, and i'm a little bit of a political nerd, so i watched a few hearings in my day but to your point, it's having layers of higher ranking people with more tenure than talking to the backs of people's heads not only do they not increase collaboration but there isn't a civil way of doing it. this is an opportunity for hopefully whoever has c-span as a part of their cable package to see how this actually works when
people look at each other in the eye and have an opportunity to communicate it's not just the subject matter creating this situation but it is the format. i think it makes a huge difference and i don't want to overstate that. i do think it's hard to be divisive. a story i heard from the former quarterback he talked about one of his opponents he talked about what it was like being the quarterbackho knowing that regge was like 6-foot five,
300 pounds, massive authentic line coming at him and he said i could hear him coming, he was loud. i knew he was coming to get me and i lived in terror of this man but whengi he would come and tackle me, i think that -- he would take young and grab him and tackle him and use all of his own weight to flip him over so steve landed on top of him so he would take him down but not hurt him. then steve said as soon as he tackled me he would be like hey, steve, how you doing? not so great right now. [laughter] it's this wonderful metaphor you can be competitive and on opposing sides. he came at him with everything he had, ready to take him down but he did it with civility and he didn't hurt him.
you can be competitive but you can do it with dignity and civility and leadership. we just need a few more reggie whites in congress. >> i love that. >> one of the strengths of the structure it turns into more of a conversation. you gave your five-minute talk then you leave and you have no idea what anyone else said so this encourages people to stay and have this conversation i good sports metaphor here but thinking about
navigating there's a lot of areas where there is room for common ground. if you think about. the district isn't going to care and we worked together to bring together all this money for all these roads, that's like distributed of politics in particular, very collaborative. but having the conversations reminds people of the areas where you can find common ground andgr that then facilitates collaboration. >> ththank you. i'd like to thank the witnesses for their testimony today and i would like to thank your students for watching and thank the committee members for their participation. the structure we are using is not cosmetic.
it's with an eye towards trying to foster some of the collaboration we are talking about today. i want to thank the staff for the committee for pulling together such a great hearing with such experts and again thanks to the friends from c-span for showing up. i'd like to think the national football league. [laughter] all members will have five legislative days to submit additional questions for the witnesses toit the chair which will be forwarded over to the response and i i would ask the witness is to please respond as promptly as you were able to and without objection allll members have five legislative days to submit extraneous materials for any inclusion in the record and that, the hearing is adjourned.
committed to providing eligible families access to affordable internet through the compete program bridging the digital divide one student at a time. civil rights advocates testified on barriers facing lgbtq individuals in the financial service industry from a house financial service subcommittee this is about one hour 15 minutes. >> this hearing entitled that there is no pride and prejudice, eliminating barriers to full economic inclusion for the lgbtq