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tv   Michael Malone The Big Score  CSPAN  November 23, 2021 10:35am-11:54am EST

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c-span2, and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online any time at booktv.org. >> get c-span on the go. watch the days because political events live or on demand any time anywhere on our new mobile video apps c-span now. access top highlights come listen to c-span radio and discover new podcasts all for free. download c-span now today. >> did you ever wonder what it be like to go back in time to relive history and benefit from its lessons to shapeto the futu? today we have that unusual opportunity. in 1985 michael malone one of the first reporters ofik the teh industry beat chronicled how silicon valley begin a decades-long story of people and companies. his book "the big score"
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recounts the history of the tech sector from its upstart beginnings. at the time it was really influential like a compelling account not only of the new york rise of the ballot also approved to be a draw for aspiring entrepreneurs. the first president of ebay announced mike malone stories capture the essence of valley culture and in the outside personalities who helped create this mecca attack. his epic depiction of silicon valley, "the big score" wasas a calling card for me and countless other young entrepreneurs. now a new edition of "the big score: the billion dollar story of silicon valley" is being published. we're really pleased to partner with the press as well as michael malone and nbc reporter scott budman for today's conversation. i've offer the unique perspective, capturing contemporary history to first-hand experience. as mike writes, later historians would be the internet
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unintegrated tech history archives to build a narrative but i was there. i know how the air smelled in half the valley was still covered in blooming fruit trees. i can remember what it was like to shake david's hand. and to play the first atari machine. the influence continues t grow and is hotly debated about positive and negative effects. at a critical juncture for silicon valley when that would benefit from a longview and a chronicle of the valley from the early days to today when he s the w weekly podcast mike brings exactly that perspective to today's conversation. forgotteno be valuable to learn from today. it's a future trajectory. what about the valley's darker side what's involved in most
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hosting this event connected to the company the highest valued private companies the pressure publishes a book in technological advancement. traditional gingers are speaker. michael f malone is an author, television producer in the dean's executive professor at santa clara university. here are his five numbers 1963 silicon valley 29, finish writing big score. 800 the number of pages on his first draft of the big score. twenty-five and 25 books written including bill and dave and intel trinity. now, to moderate today's conversation we are thrilled to feature on stage scott is an emmy award winning reporter
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for the nbc air he reports on business and technology. scott is also mike's podcast partner for the silicon valley insider weekly overview of silicon valley tech industry scott holds a degree in political science and ucla. welcome mike and scott but we're so looking forward to your conversation, take it away. >> thank you so much. welcome everyone, and michael welcome to you. it's great to be here. >> it's great to talk to you, this time i get to ask you the questions. >> and folks, please let us be a little informal. scott and i are not really capable of anything else. [laughter] this is an honor to be here for many reasons. mike, you know i'm a big fan of yours. as a tech reporter i've been standing on your shoulders for years. in some of the earliest stories i did as a silicon valley reporter were at sea hm and you have allowed me to do
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many there and geek out. individually to see the exhibits. always appreciate it it's an honor to be associated with that. >> if i can add, i am deeply honored. i've done many things at the museum over the years. i go back safari member would gordon glenn bell made the decision to move to silicon valley even further back where the land is now is a 10-year-old iuc is my beebe gun to hunt ground squirrels. [laughter] it is a great honor i am really thrilled what he's doing with the museum right now and moving it into the future and repositioning it. that is just tremendous it needs it right now. >> excellent. everything you just said reference the past, the present in the future but that's what we're going to get into. love technology obviously.
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i love silicon valley. i love history, i'm not ashamed to say i love the 80s. [laughter] we are going to get a lot of these today. it is fitting, it might, first of all we are doing this on one of those days when people say what were you doing when? after all 1969 this is when we landed on the moon. it was, for many of us a lifetime ago. going back to 1985 in silicon valley terms, wouldn't you agree that's going back three or four at lifetimes given how fast the pace of technology changes? and yet were going to quench your predictions and everything but i was taken when i went back and. reporter: some of the stuff with how similar a lot of stuff is. >> are you thinking the more things change the more they stay the same? >> you follow the law we've been through about ten lifetime since i wrote the book.
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no, i find myself at this point in my life driving down el camino are heading out to the computer history museum i'm flashing between a multiple periods of time. where the computer history museum is, where facebook is, or google are, were farm fields i remember that. i can remember when nasa was adding more buildings out there i saw the shoreline the amphitheater, everything all seems to be here simultaneously, the past and the present. the valley is kind of the same way. it has not changed in fundamental ways, but it has to change completely. it is a very, very different place producing very, very different products and services. and yet some of the characteristics of the valley still survive. and still that same hard-driving entrepreneurial community. and instead of meeting their
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meeting in pete's to plot the creation of new companies but they are still plotting the creation of new companies. >> it struck me the rock stars of the time of the book where that ship executives the big industry was the chip industry. that lasted for quite some time. and then there was quite a period of time when ships were on the back burner. they were everywhere. but they were not as sexy the executives were not getting all the press. so let's fast-forward all the way to the past literally just couple of months. all of a sudden a huge chip shortage. we are talking about not only iphones but automobiles. everything is so dependent on chips it is not front-page news. driverless cars, everyone needs chips all the sudden i am thinking you must be having déjà vu because the chip industry is front and center again pray.
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>> you cannot get an f150 right now by the most popular p vehicle in the united states because they not get the chips, the microprocessor for the while computer. that tells you something very profound and something we forget. we are now on the food chain of silicon valley we are about seven levels down doing apps and that kind of thing driverless cars. but at the very top of that pyramid are chips as a reason was silicon valley we don't make any silicon here anymore. chips matter because everything flows from them. we get excited about the latest new technologies, products and companies. but in the end it depends about on getting those chips built in right now they're not getting built. >> it makes sense, for different reasons zuma stock at all time high or near it. facebook stock near all-time high.
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look at video, chips are kind of sexy again. did you imagine that, 35 years ago? could you imagine what we are talking about today is hot again 35 years are not given how quickly everything changes? >> chips got embedded. once you piled software on top of that, the absent everything else the chips are so hidden away. last time we thought about chips when they said intel inside. the great marketing campaign. now we are realizing everything depends upon it. from on the battle is lost. without semi conductors we are in the streets right now. it is a very dangerous time 80% of the world chips were being made in taiwan. in china is making it rather rude noises towards taiwan. they found a chokepoint of the world economy and it is right
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there. there is a scramble right now by intel and the taiwanese to get over to the states and start creating but that's going to take two or three years and billions and billions of dollars to get us up to the point we are secure again. that we are making our own semiconductor devices for this is a very worrisome time right now. >> i wanted to ask if you brought up this geos situation and technology are so entwined. it seems every other week there's an antitrust hearing or something. it is altogether a very incestuous worlds between global politics and silicon valley tech. what was it like in 1985? i don't say it in our shadows but doing our own thing back then? >> on notice would probably be the right word to describe it. this was a world in the middle of orchards.
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very few freeways, el camino was the main artery and during that time the valley operated pretty much independent of the states. jobs was in his building need not gotten as great profile by tom wolfe yet in esquire magazine. the valley was not noticed. there were doing extraordinary things but we were still relatively anonymous of washington d.c. pretty much sit in their own rules. it was even greater if you go back a another decade the name the town silicon valley. to readers of electronic news.
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us not seen as an enclave of high technology. keep in mind, the book was published i think a week i finished a week before apple introduced the macintosh. apple's ruby was a disaster lisa was supposed to change the world it turned out. changed a week when she was just the state of most historians especially contemporary historians. you finish something, wrap it all up and then is absolute the next week. >> even with apple revolutionizing the computer game and go along with a very small market share for decades. it's kind of hip in california it may be of one of these
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machines but not everybody does. what was the turning point? i remember it was the '90s the stock markets really brought everybody to silicon valley. was there a turning point before that where we remove the tech in the street from the the light? was it just the matter was it a gradual move? >> it was not. >> it did not get a real strong reception they made movies about but when it was introduced at flynn center i was there. that was a big deal but not that big of a deal. there were a lot of questions about it, a mouse in the tiny screen did not have enough memory, what are you going to use it for which really didn't get fixed until adobe came along. the turning point was one, apple going public, the apple ipo. and everyone talked about that. it made a bunch of people that
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otherwise would never have been that successful, really wealthy. apple -- at the time to give up founder stock market was jellybeans. there's restrictions on that kind of stuff now. but back then people were made in millionaires overnight like secretaries and the guy who wanted the office plants. it's like oh my goodness the technology is hot it's going to be worth a lot of money and we can all get in on it. hey can you get me some founder stock and apple? the second event i think occurred right about the time i was writing this book. and that was the japanese. the japanese came rolling in from chips that were better than ours. i was at that event with the
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guy from hp showed quality charts of silicon valley chips versus japanese chips. and it was an eye-opener. the japanese stuff was so much better, cheaper, more reliable and everything else. the value was knocked on its rear end. that is when bob went back to d.c. and started doing congressional testimony and all of that. he became the face of silicon valley and the whole battle with japan and all of that that lasted for a few years, it had two effects. put silicon valley really on the map is a crucial part of the american economy and our competitiveness. it also started but i think has been not a pleasant history of the valley dealing with washington d.c. dealing with the feds. it is inevitable now they're so big though the biggest companies in history of the
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world. but back then they really dreaded having to do it. kimber david packard and come back a few years before that from being a deputy secretary of defense. and he said never again. never going to washington again. we are not even going to do defense contracts. they can buy off the shelf. he was so bitter by the experience that was the attitude of the valley. after that, now we have people running for office and making the critical contributions to candidates. there interlocked with d.c. and there's no getting away from it. it's just going to a deeper and deeper. >> will get into that too pretty mentioning money in the spotlight that shines because the ip. it raises up to things, one i remember shortly after steve jobs attained a rock star status heart of that was all of this super casual, hippy, almost poverty-stricken look.
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he would pose on magazine covers barefoot. for a long time in america it was assigned times were tough. that would be what i would say perhaps the second most influential ipo and silicon valley. after they went public and other spotlight who is on the cover of "time" magazine was verified again. we ushered in on the rock start ceo, but the casual rock start ceo. by the time you publish your book, did anyone address the way you are addressing right now? honestly in the terms of executive because we became the only place where money was in all this technology bit of place where we dressed casually, right? >> i named one of the chapters in the book typhoons are such a phenomenon. there is always a great disconnect between the look and the reality. these were hard charging
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people. during the infamous 1984 endnote report. he really did go wash his feet in the toilet. he massaged his feet by flushing the toilet with his feet in it. without that it's interesting interesting. but the guy sitting across the table was hard driven ambitious guy just like everybody else leaving silicon valley. he had a cost and that that with him. it's basically a statement that i am not one of them. i am not a bad generation we are the new crowd. we will dress and behave the way we want. it was as much a message as his lifestyle. and obviously it has been copied ever since up until the '90s when everything
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switched to jeans and black t-shirts. >> i want to read one comment. by the way people take questions from you guys in a little bit. this is very timely is a do not knock. we use a. >> project on my schedule myths. >> on who john nash he is. >> i love that reference. this was important technology it just has to hit the main stream quite yet, right? >> this is an interesting story. my next book after this i went inside myths for a couple of months of following them on their ipo. and i learned so much about human nature and how people's lives change and everything else. ipos are the emblematic event of silicon valley. for a long time, every business plan said at the end, and then we will sell to
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google. but in the last few years taking off again it has become ipo valley once more. that is fine. it is democratizing. people get to participate in the process of creation of making wealth. i think that is much as entrepreneurship is the heart of the valley. >> it almost seems like for a while there not only were startups keeping money to keep multibillion-dollar uniforms as they call them if you are a chip company perhaps an intel to buy you if you were a social media company or an instagram ear thing facebook's going to come in and give you a billion dollars. but then you are right we started to see more ipos. as a journalist i like to see that because they are independent. i remember when microsoft thinking that would be sad if yahoo goes away because they
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are absorbed by another giant company and end up going away for different reasons. >> the big companies are making themselves immortal. here at facebook and you're starting to lose some of your billion users so what you do? you buy the next hot company. i knew just keep going that way buying up all of those users and sing perpetually young. i don't think that is healthy for the valley. the few residual survivors prevent them gigantic companies are going to everything was a potential threat this is not the valley anymore. because of social media mention facebook because of
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social media everybody knows everything about us everyone is looking for the dark side of success, jeff bezos may be a multimillionaire into space look at those workers is what we do for our jobs. back in the 80s there is a perception people did not know about that. but in your book you talked about how there was a dark side. he knew there is some shenanigans going on i thought is going to be reading this a cheerleading book in the valley all these wonderful human beings changing the world and all of that. and then i find out oh yes, i did work with susan yolk up and do the four-part series on
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toxic chemicals killing people in the valley. was espionage, drugs, and everything else. there were criminals running around the valley even back in the 70s when the chip shortage happened in the early 80s we had the black guerrilla family working here in the valley tried to get chips off a loading dock for even a bad one so they can sell them on the gray market. now we know there have been spies here almost from the beginning. not just the enemies but allies are here as well. that was a shock to me and too. reporter: that there is a whole second valley that's hidden under the first one. and in many ways, that criminality has reduced over the last 30/40 years. i think it's probably in the ascendant right now. why be a criminal when you can
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make a billion dollars pretty easily around here? >> is it different because so much of the technology decades ago is built on the government in -- that chip industry, the defense and is it now got different apps to help you dates, get your food delivered it is a different world. so you are right it seems like the end goal with government espionage and facebook's got a share of its trackers. the goal seems to me let's do something to cash in and move on. >> i think the good news, the valley has a fundamental shift between hardware and >> the hardware and software okay, and between let's go engineers and the code writers, and that is the old world, as i think back about the fair child and those companies in the early days, the intel's nationals and all that, there was very much a mad man kind of it nara, you knw
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and you look at any gross got a crew cut andcu the old photogras and that sort of thing you realize that was a distinct world and the kind of world did have traditional criminal behavior and ahead companies where they dreamed of becoming big and very specific structures and organizational charts and everything else and software changes everything you think the market changes as well because originally it was telling to the industry, it was a commercial building we were selling to other companies and now, the turning point was the web but then social networks now they sells. to consumers and it is a different world view. old value families and by your home, live in the valley, get your gold watch, today the young
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people are in san francisco, and you sold on the specs and the hardware era and you cell phone in many ways manipulation and the software in the social networking era and those companies are really thinking about how to sell to mr. missus consumer and becoming a member of our cult i do want to say that but yes cold, and these tricks from casinos and everything else. and even convinced us to design our own products but instead of making the workers for ourselves and does a very very different reality and began to show the personalities. >> are there any companies in these jumping on the tech band wagong was clearly not tech but they wanted that evaluation, in other words, there are we work,
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they would say hey where is that.n? >> there's a little bit of that in the began to show kind of a tacky at this, they really were but they were trying to affiliate themselves with the cool thing so you got that commercial new look at ads from the 60s and 70s and it's called people dress like me and they thought that pretty girl sitting at a computer and she has never seen before in her life and it's all of this sexual stuff and everything else and then in the 70s coming start to see a change in you start to see the nerves appearing in the advertising and the whole point of showing the nerd was that we have entered, so were actually tech coming because we have this guy that was part of the turning point pretty. >> so you mentioned the term silicon valley coming up and is
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stuck in like that's an incredible branding and i want to bring up this comments and mark is in the audience and thank you for writing certain publications, and this comes up every month, silicon valley is lossless are not only that the other cities are emerging as viable as of the tech centers in boston and all around the world. what are your thoughts on this, silicon valley is had a run and i have always thoughtdi that the other cities are you know, the most flattering thing in beauty but it is competition in a way that but we have. >> i'm kind of ambivalent about that because of declared this four times over the years. and i was wrong every single time. as the valley lost its luster, i think traditional valley has lost its luster you know think
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about that if you really look at this valley carefully, it is tech history goes back 121 years and goes back to names that well it wasn't the valley, but it was on the cutting edge of technology. by the time you to felon dave in the garage, the valley is already 30 years old. that was 90 years ago in the valley is still going strong because it keeps regenerating itself. i declare the valley dead because of the traffic, and because of the cost of the housing it and i look back and ago, there was not that much traffic on the sims terrible knee can buy a house, in sunnyvale for $90000 so what was i complaining about. the valley seems to have been able to rise above all these per refill challenges as long as
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that entrepreneurial core and the company the creativity stays strong. that is why worry about these china companies having too much control because we begin new page and then we lose the vitality of people wanting to breach for the brass ring and i think the valley will regenerate himself again. they have tech companies they have entrepreneurs but they do not have the culture rated is only place i've ever been where technology is just penetrated with the culture and indestructible any go to century theater, the doing ads for programmers. this is during a kids movie and got a local copy place and especially during booms like when people were developing apps for the iphone. there were six or seven tables
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with little groups of people surrounding laptop with a spreadsheet on it and they were starting a company. i don't go anywhere where i see that and finally, look at the venture capitol, where is all of the venture capitol, the tech venture capitol samuel brody, there's officeslo everywhere but it is right here and as long as the money is here, silicon valley will keep regenerating itself. >> we've certainly not gotten rid of traffic or high housing costs and as it gets higher and higher, my concern is one thing to say that you're already here, and you have your house but whab about the younger people in the traditionally start the startups value, and kissed that reigning and get that money anda if we scare them away. not because of traffic but because of high housing costs and because of the age of, i
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know a lot of high schoolers and people thinking about college and they are thinking, how can i ever come back to the area when i am in my early 20s as a graduate because more known way going afford housing. then i i am worried that the entrepreneurs will go somewhere else. >> right in a piece in the wall street journal in the past work i suggested what could happen in his begin to happen but it's been very slow and b that is the valley hasal to grow outwards ad kinda went over the field for santaa cruz and all that, years ago but now i am hearing developers are really startinggo to develop one inhale, and once again the highway, real highway through hollister and going east and traces a beautiful town of the hill. and you know, we can grow and all of those directions physically and obviously we are growing and growing tall.
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i drive down el camino in sunnyvale, i do not know where i man predict by minute canyon of six-story tall buildings, the length of thehe city had that's going to happen as well and is going to go if it has to. so gets more urbanized. i don't know i think covid-19 was interesting because we can learn that people can be projected. and i think that will enable the valley to become more virtualized pretty coming physically from its way to stay around the bay area but i think it will virtualized well in northern california printed. >> that is an appointed is a subject that we tackled on your podcast where the valley for decades had theur idea of we can do software technology and therefore we can worka from coffee shop or at home. and it wasn't tested really until the last 12 or 14 month and well, if you look at the productivity and you know really the stock prices, the future
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printed it seems work very well pretty. >> but there will be backlash in some courageous thing wait as minute, we went too far and it doesn't matter how they are losing control of this with a fear. >> so you can sit there in front of your bookshelf. >> california talk about theke high-speed h rail and from north to south and i thought, the most thing that we could do right now would be to build speed rail from san francisco or san jose, to sacramento braided and will open up the i 80 corridor to the valley for it to grow but i don't think we need to what we need to drive to the office everyday demarco i think that even the companies want their employees come back, they are saying two days a week, will negotiate three days ago away, just don't quit think that is the future. >> you're right, that seems to work and must go back a bit so in the forward of your book you
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have any forward and you seem to talk about what you did and did not get right in 1985 and you called the valley dead many times. let's talk about some of the specific things. >> yes that i screwed up. the one i feel most guilty about is. [inaudible]. , the demo of demos, he gave us basically everything we are looking at right now, the mouse, the screen, the mitt maccabee and mapping and everything else and he's been pretty much forgotten. and as a kid, i've seen a clip of that stuff. he was doing the demo of all demos and i'd forgotten about him in the had pretty much forgotten about him and came into the mercury news monday and he said down and talk to me and
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he was telling me what he was doing and all of that and i just thought that he was another valley guy you know, living in the past and did not give him enough credit and when i read this. book, did not give him enough credit and about the pr lines being put out by apple and the other computing companies that they were the creators of the staff had unfortunately, douglas engelbart got alzheimer's disease fairly young and i saw a couple of times but i was never able to apologize to him for not giving him the credit markley history has begun to give credit and i don't think enough but it has begun. in the thinking thing and the second n thing that is put upon and there's a forgiving of it is the internet read i was with a group of kids that were bright kids study and they took tips
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and we went to xerox park and i sat down in front of a terminal and i got to play with - in 1967, 1968, somewhere8 in there and it did absolutely nothing for me. you had to type in all of these code numbers just to talk to some guy in caltech who are didn't know and i had nothing to say to him and i thought, this is stupid, this will never go anywhere. and then there was a law and then the web started to take off had the web and anything else and i tried that i thought okay this is interesting but nothing that i will devote my time to and it wasn't until really the web, the worldwide web came along and everybody else found out that we use it on a regular basis so you will not see the word internet in a book written
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in her published in 1985. even though we were bright and the cost of changing everything. so i do regret that one. >> will you visited xerox park. >> will i gotta tell you, if you read is much as i do, you're out there on the field and on the lines and you cover a story, daily story and then over the weekend, in the run-up and you schedule the real story behind the stories story and then six months later, you find out the real story behind the real story behind the real story and then ten years later in a talk or at a tech cocktail party 70 tells you actually what happened. and steve jobs and xerox park is a perfect example of that,
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famous mythological story goes to xerox park in dc's you know the xeroxd computer and it has all of the douglas engelbart's inventions on it and he says we've got to do that. and it shows steep humility and all that with the fact of the matter is and we said in the mac team they'd already got to xerox park and are now working at apple and they knew all about this thanks and they said, we have got to do it and i said will steve has to sign off on it they said no member sign off on it because he discovered it so they decided to let's make discover or make him discover it so they said that that was enough so that he would walk by a computer and say, and that is the realh. story. and there's a number of things that i've learned is that in this book, is completely wrong
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for example, intel, i didn't realize that andy grove had looked at jean monday and said jeans and i'm going to quit and andy said, i will destroy you ad they will never heal your name is sullivan valley again and okay, so that is why all of these years, we heard that the microprocessor was another invention and the architecture of the micro processor and the idea of it was absolutely ted luhobson invention but he stayed in intel card but then all of a sudden the story changed again d yet the guy that disappeared was a guy who built the thing and so the real story of these four guys, who actually i nominated two of them for nobel prize in the desert and i there certain people in this town of didn't get nobel prize but they deserve
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it but that is the real story. so in history, the pr departments tend to give him the attention. >> you are hard onon yourself fr what the internet would turn out to be t that many many years lar microsoft was missing the internet andas it didn't and now that the second most valuable. >> yes. and on the prefaces of going away to the point where michael said let's go back to the shareholders not coming down by the way, the most valuable company in the world, apple and now largely to the internet it survived printed. >> in the original sin of apple, whom i discovered it actually i was writing my apple book but
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that story does not fit with any of our preconceptions i think. that steve jobs convinced another to let them design of computer game and nobody and atari believe that he could do it they didn't like him anyway he was obnoxious and he smelled associate convinced his best friend. and these guys are both my neighbors. to design the game and it was working at hpe and he worked all night getting up first in writing and give it to steve and steve walked into the office and said look what i created and he said, fabulous indicating. and steve did not give half of it only a third and because of that he didn't have enough money but he went to the computer show and he wanted to buy the
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microprocessor and an early whed he could not afford the 86 that he wanted from08 intel because t was like 100 bucks and get like 50 bucks. so he took on out of a fishbowl that they were selling for like ten bucks apiece. and he built the apple one around that. as a result apple underpowered the microprocessors for the first 20 years and that was the original san. sin pretty and he didn't find outth about it until the plane tour in macintosh and he was very upset human being when he got what happened and ie him he does not deserve to be upset ripped off but that's the original sin of apple and now it is the most valuable company in the history of the world. >> and going back to 85, how did you know that they would shine a
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bright. >> before that, and it felt for the next 20 years, 28 percent before steve came back. tina >> what kind of company right now the maybe 40 years from now we will say look at that one. >> what one of the great things about the values you cannot predict the next unicorn. i think gordon moore had a thought of batteries as well and it doesn't really get notice because is not as simple as a semi conductors but he always said the battery power was going the limiting factor. there's some battery companies
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out there that are doing interesting things. one just went to public last week, in the valley, novick's. silicon batteries so it's came back, is the product going to work i don't know but it is possible that the batteries can now get on the freight train of the rocket ship of the semiconductors and of the companies are working crazily os the batteries as well. and i think the batteries will be crucial. and whoever has the great breakthrough, i had lunch a while back and i said what is the greatest invention in the valley history and i said is that the tube is it shockley. [inaudible]. is that the circuit is that you.
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and your team with a microprocessor and he said, no, i think the one true moment of genius and that whole history, john and the - process and he said that everything else that we all did, it is see it coming. then it was extrapolating from where we are now to what we could do in the future. but he said the idea took a transistor and laying it flat in printing process and being able to scale it down to nanometers, that came out of the blue. that was not an active engineering that was creation and he said that everything else pales next to that moment. so i thought that was interesting and i think that's what we are waiting for, the valley waits for the moment where you get that process and
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everything changes. in moore's law presents the opportunity to do that every two or three years every thing is super now and they were building, circus parker and he played computer games at the university. any realize that you cannot build an electronic pinball machine because there's to be devices into expensive and all ofan that and he said the memory got blow down $10, he knew that he could build space invaders and started atari and that because constant improving and reduction in price produces a whole new. opportunity every three years and that's what makes these entrepreneursrs keep going. that opportunity is right there and i think that great invention is just around t the corner we cannot predict it andor you cant depend upon it but it always shows up. and i'm waiting to hear the next one, think it will be battery
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power or could be artificial intelligence, i don't think robotics but i think that we have to still figure out economist vehicles in a better way for transportation. something bigng is waiting in te wings and you can just feel it, you can feel r it rising and run but you can't, see it yet. so i can give you particular predictions. >> can you touch upon what might be waiting in the wings of the darker side, use the phrase rising from the ground, many years ago we figured out what the rising from the ground by the fair child of plants and it was killing people ultimately. they were opening their water. nobody really knew it then. it may be some people but it sort of caught people by surprise pretty. >> me say something quick about that, i was sitting at on a story, a big factory building
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hundred thousand square feet and we were sitting outside and having a drink outdoors me a bunch of trade press reporters not heard aboutbo people getting hurt by toxics. but nobody written about an assent to the other reporter, do you guys know about toxic can chemicals run here and they said oh yes, it's all over the place pretty innocent of you ever written about it and they said no, we went about technology new products. and so i wentt to mark and i tod that to a guy heckuva lot more venerable reported that i ever was and he pitched attend that was the beginning of the whole toxic thing in the valley and everybody had quietly known about it the valley was so pretty with green grass the berms and it the nice concrete buildings and this was not smokestacks in pittsburgh, we were safe here, a clean safe industry. only then did we discover and discover some of the most
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dangerous chemicals ever known. you're right, i think it people, we sense that something is wrong. >> and we since it's now and obviously their environmental concerns whether it is the big coin or whatever it is there still smokestack industry and so money going on but even in the place where hey we are clean and soft and were not actually producing anything and therefore, are not hurting the environment. we can see what is coming because of generally six, we can see what is happening because of 2015, whether it is political or other countries right now that are relying on social media to spreadco their word and we are seeing what is already here with entire facebook sections devoted to why you should not get vaccinated and we are seeing people die because of it.
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how long will technology be allowed to be about a guy. reporter: the government figure out what technology doesn't be, somebody connect against debt and then say hey is going to be a disincentive or misinformation like others for michael's coming from these companies pretty. >> i think the toxic threat is to arrange right now and we see several things a, one of them is the notion that we can assign people to determine whatas is te and then control the access to that truth to billions of people would always harken back to there's a lesson phrase who will guard the guardians. and none of us are sure that we are right. and there's a first amendment designed to create debates between alternative points of view and if we start censoring these points ofe view, then we
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may be missing solutions to whatever problems we face. and i am bothered that we are allowing large companies to decide what we should know. and i know your little bit different for me put them up first amendment absolutist. and debate is all in all points of view have to be reckitt mott recognizes seems that this tech has in the last agent to begin to narrow the area in which wero operate in our thinking in her speech everything else and i'm not sure the people should be doing and i'm not sure i'm certain that the federal government should be doing in and they've not done anything about it because you've seen these while you covering these congressional testimonies are
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politicians don't even understand what zuckerberg is talking about and it is embarrassing trying to see a little bit ofo a glimmering andi don't know what the exact solution is, is probably somewhere in law that we have been giving the tech special breaks andci sparing them possibility and something can be done there and i know that we were just talking the other day about how the ftc, they sent a warning shot out there, they went after brought foam on the antitrust stuff and i think that's a hit another coming from big boys. and we know the manipulation of video games actually begin to change the wiring of the kids brains and ultimately, we have to understand that the traditional world is not the same as the natural world analog world was not built for us. we may have to learn to cope
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with in the digital world was specifically designed for us to entertain us and municipally destined to take our money and to empower us in all of the good things on that two edge sword and were still working it out. that's rather frightening. >> are we ever going to get a leader who does not for lack of better term, manipulate us via social media and is that where we are now. maybe with the tweets. >> i am not sure that we will. new technology until it comes aalong. i just wrote an essay in talking about the silicon valley change from the double east to the code writers and etc.
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one of the things that i talk about is freeware which we all love. we get it for free, you just download it is actually a truly pernicious valley invention because you give away everything free but you don't actually notice that you're giving up every bit of your personal information so your slowly surrendering your liberty in order to get that new something. in the hornet have to peel that back and have more daylight into the process and it may be that ultimately we own our data pretty and some company wants our data, theyny have to buy it from us or something after the music to calm her personal information long about you know you version of war craft but it has to be our decision and fright now is not our decision and i think that's where a lot of the resentment of the valley is coming from plano.
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>> is about the data. could be a whole career opening up broken there are agents to handle your book deals and their agents to handle the contracts of the jobs we have and white not an agent to handle my data pretty. [applause] >> one of the numbers that i actually there were five numbers of the one, and really didn't work was nothing. and it was a number of how much money did he make publishing my book. [laughter] is such a beautiful job in packaging and binding in all of that and i hope they actually see something from this because i figured when i finish i could've put out something from mcdonald's and made more money than for my first book pretty. >> i'm glad you give them money to get to some questions.
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by the way, feel free to put a meter in the comments section that i am honored to reg brown like this isth something we touched on earlier but should silicon valley and china and what about intellectual issues and human rights issues which may be doing about china right now predict. >> that is a really complicated question because china is still a friend or enemy and you know, if you're making apple computers, and nikes a few miles away from where there being an ioconcentration camps how do you justify doing that just to make profits. there was anbl incredible artice written i think in 1980 or 1979, in the computer decision magazine. and i've always remember to because the title of it was,
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would you sell a computer to his footer and he went through the list of all of the companies, is working hpv arts and all the companies that were selling mainframes and minicomputers to the likes of the argentinian government handed to you know, other dangerous companies and enemies around the world that were doing terrible things like keeping track of citizens and that they were arresting and you know, nobody talked about it and the question is, are we in bed with china at a time when it's not morally right to be there any more. and when china was doing everything but they made some moves to try to join the world patent organization and all of that kind ofon stuff but there's still doing it in a companies of men and fallen families where they actually put in requires in
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the products and were going to sell to china they tried it to reverse engineer the coded they were scrambled and when you're dealing the country that allows that kind of theft of you after the twice. >> ibm did sell computers to hitler. >> yes they did and so the question was at what point is it just morally wrong to be dealing with china, i mean, we are so deep in right now. we have the institutes and universities and you know, the top basketball player in the world, have a famous wrestler who is now a movie star knees apologizing and reworking, not to enter china and on and on and
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on. where does that stop and when do we say that market is not worth it and they are functioning type one. and they just said well we have nuclear weapons and were getting into very dangerous out here and i think the companies are going to have to make some very serious decisions very soon. >> is a question, she was negative thoughts on a new semi conductor facility is something that you talk about in your podcast, and in arizona were much like california,a, there ae constraints on water energy and other environmental challenges he just talked about someme of e geopolitical concerns about technology growth and expansion what about concerns about the environment especially when it comes to things like water pretty. >> yes, is think that they're going to build on there, but that will why there and then you realize well the intel have been therebe for decades rated and so
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you have a large population of people that are good at putting on the bunny suits and so when you got a bunch of trained people, you're going to go there. you're not going to go to dubuque there even oklahoma or something like that it's hard every going to start where you have a strong base and is going to provide too much pressure on new mexico and arizona but there you go on the infrastructure. >> the environmental concerns are the likes of elon musk winnie talk about that coin and was simultaneously, the environment that is talking about the currency were a t lotf that done at the expense of the environment. it. >> you know you are 2021 when people are concerned about the environmental damage created by crypto currency read i never t.thought that i would see that
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day and it did not predict that one. >> you talk about antitrust i apologize if i'm pronouncing this wrong but the relationship between silicon valley and dc and for do you see these antistress hearings is ever going to impact the valley or make a a difference with alexa facebook and amazon and these companies, will it ever affecting any of these companies pretty. >> i think at some point he does. we forced to stand several years and washington dc has got a due date something about big tech and big tech in their army of lawyers and you know, heads back to dc in the lobbyist in the right to big checks everything gets quiet again and i think that there is a rising anger about what iss going on.
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and that m these guys have too much power and influence in their daily lives were starting to see noise at some point, no matter how much money a congressman is he's got a boat a certain way for his constituents and i see a that day coming. breaking up the companies and certain point is not a bad thing and ultimately, the pieces of that company are usually successful are more successful than the original coming a classic example of that is the idea and the ibm was truly an anomaly, the question univac and all that in the mainframes in the 50s and the 60s. then all of a sudden they get hit with the interest and they are paralyzed with legal decade andr almost a in that time, they didn't get into the personal computer world and you know they really messed that revolution first round
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rated and that enabled hundred and 50 companies to get started apple rights open, and another's and then they get in the game with boca and designing the pc and a command they eventually take over sizable share of the market but the companies that got created while they were drafted into that giant as well and we have. real competition. and right now here you go, you go to twitter, you go to vacation photos and facebook,k, you don't - and if you break them up you will have multiple companies. and nowt the same people running those counties you have a lot more competition and creativity and innovation and a lot more dynamic because entrepreneurs start showing up again in the scene and right now those markets are closed pretty. >> was not that long ago that's
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how we got some medical technologies and it now, it just seems like everybody wants to show how big they are and isn't that ultimately historically an unhealthy trend pretty. >> is a very unhealthy trend rated the leading companies every ten years. it pretty much completely changed every decade and you might have one hp that the president changed every decade lately that is not the case. theyow have companies out there pretty 30 years old that are still dominating everything that is not healthy and maybe hoping for our balance of trade is not healthy the economy or fourth silicon valley two necklace a couple more questions read what advice you have for people who want to take a more active role in tech to help shape a better future and their personal life
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or evenei for humanity and thats interesting because they talk about how were helping humanity and can you talk a little bit about that. and even for themselves and fellows and in what they do. >> that is a tough one, but one is that there are always brilliant people out there. there's well let's look it this way, there's been like 14 in history, there is bill hewitt amazingly when he was a college kid, or was an you know, that is about it. oh and the drunken crazy brilliant wild wild with very very many brilliant people around here this is the icing of silicon valley's insanely high and there's always people who want to try something new and create a new company. and theyat are there looking for
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people who will step in and join them in all their energy into making the company happen and networking get to know people freighted one of the great rules is that if you can't answery somebody's question, you refer them to somebody who can and that's when the dynamo this town that you will get connected to everybody in the sand and three or four or five steps. inform startup teams, developed product of your own. influence the creation of this company so they are enlightened. dissenting that the most enlightened company valley history was at its peak in 1958, that was hewitt packard, there's never been a more enlightened
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better run company valley, and hphp is not it wouldn't be any more credit than people taking the risk on an organization it and treatment of employees and that sort of thing. internet is the ultimate platform for communicating with fevery people. start a blog, make a case for what you believe in. i get involved in crowdsourcing things to see a new company and product that will help mankind, get involved in that. there's a million opportunities to do good in this town of and we tended to use well but involve a been a boy scout leader for 20 plus years and is important to me. i think out of because we have girls. that is important to me and is my way of helping out the
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community, nonprofit and silicone valley are desperate for people because everybody worst 80 hours a week but help out and make this a better place. >> we have our final question keep up the one quick one because you wrote early something very specific that will takeui you back tonight, coming up in a position we are and what did you do there. >> although it was interesting, i was in corporate pr and i handled apd which is where a lot of this is working calculators and in fact one of the questions you were thinking about asking was my favorite artifact in the museum, a journal. but there are several hp calculators that are either in the storage room.
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[inaudible]. the desktop computer group and part of the many computer group so i was there of the introduction of the hp three tape, it kept going up but i probably be wearing a fitbit and introduce the hp digital watch. that is like going for $10000 now and wait about a pound. and it was really the first true computer watch rated and one arm got longer over time because a giving biceps pretty. >> okay am going to go to the computer history museum this is been a great trip back and will end with a secret question about what the museum want you to do. an inspiring the next generation, focusing on one word and time the younger person y
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starting their career so as you reflect on your life, your experiences here in silicon valley, we want to know your one word as well as behind why you chose that one. >> okay have lunch and watch a lot of people>> at the museum pulled at their word and they are always uplifting and positive and you know what i thought no, on until the truth. this valley was built by and will continue to thrive as a result of people who are relentless in their pursuit of great technology and companies success and you can't change the world if youtl are not relentles and you can never give up. on and a tv show, i interviewed a bunch of executives and i said, what was your single against screwup. as interesting, the most successful people are the ones
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that were most willing to admit when they had failed. and they havead used that is coe for ever since, he is like a shiny object that they kept in their object that they published all of the time to reminded them never give up. keep going keep trying, it will work eventually, you will win this town if you work hard enough and long enough and you stay relentless. never give up. >> and i like that and is been sustained over the decades so thank you michael and is always great to talk to you and i look forward to your podcast again this friday. and thank you the computer history museum to let us have this great, were both big big fans of museum and everything you guys do so thank you and i will send this over back over to acdaniel.
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>> thank you both, thank you scott and thank you mike for your book. he said a few things early in the conversation that stuck with me. you talk about rock stars and you talked about eggs emerging in the 1980s which made me think about here we are a once-in-a-lifetime and the same as it never was. here is where we are, on camera using the technology that was demonstrated by douglas engelbart and we are presenting context and history and the ability to think deeply about the stories of the past and how they can be a guide for the future read and it's a wonderful opportunity to reflect and i encourage those to take a look at the book. there is stories is about the people and implications and so
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with that, i will encourage those who at the museum to take their hats off and thanks yourself in the board coming out of the pandemic and we have done well relative to anyone else and feel really good about a conditions for those who not seen the museum take a look that website and do what you can to help us. so we will be moving on to an opportunity at the museum but let me once again thanks scott and mike for wonderful program today and your audience members for giving your time and support so thank you again. >> weekend on "c-span2" are an intellectual feast, every saturday american history tv documents america's stories and on sundays, book tv brings you the latest nonfiction books and authors. funding for "c-span2" comes from these television companies and
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more, including charter communications pretty broad demand is a force for empowerment and that's why charter is invested billions building infrastructure, upgrading technology, empowering opportunity and communities big and small, charter is connecting us read charter communications along with these television companies support "c-span2" as a public service. >> book tv, every sunday on "c-span2", features others discussing the latest nonfiction books at 2:00 p.m. eastern, hillary clinton and mystery writer will international thriller dave tate and the terror 6:30 p.m., university of illinois professor offers cause on challenging american journalism. and how power distort american journalism at 7:30 p.m. on about the books, for new york
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democratic on opening a new bookstore and bestseller list, new releases, and in the news from the publishing world and 10:00 p.m. on afterwards, and the latest book, inside corporate america social justice camp, corporate america is the culture only to increase profits and is interviewed by greg matthew harvard university professor and former chair for presidents council of economic advisers to the george w. bush administration it pretty watchful tv, every sunday on "c-span2" and find full schedule in the program guide or watch oe at any time booktv.org. >> african america up to - >> we believe were striving to provide equal opportunities for all citizens but it.
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>> documentary competition 2022, students across country of giving us behind the scenes look as they work on their entries in the # student can and if you are middle or high school student you can join the conversation by entering the c-span student cam competition it quite a 56 minute documentary using c-span video clips, answers the question how does the federal government impact your life pretty. >> be passionate about what you're discussing the matter how barter small you think the audience could be an i know that we are in the greatest country in history. >> all filmmakers out there and remember the content is king and just remember to be a neutral and impartial as possible in your portrayal of both sides of an issue c-span worth $100,000 in cash prizes any of a shot at winning the grand prize,

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