tv Hillary Clinton Louise Penny State of Terror CSPAN November 10, 2021 4:33pm-5:32pm EST
2018. the oldest print by a major publishing house devoted to the african-american house. 10:00 p.m. eastern on "afterwards", doctor pol off i, head of the children's hospital of philadelphia of infectious disease division director of the vaccine center talks about his book, you bet your life, blood transfusions to mass vaccinations, long risky history of medical information interviewed by doctor emily gurley epidemiologist of johns hopkins university. watch book tv every sunday on c-span2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org. ♪♪ >> many of you r know, the 57th u.s. secretary of state in addition to being the first woman in u.s. history too become a presidential nominee. this was after four decades in
number one on the new york times usa today. chief inspector online novel published by the publishing group p translated into 31 languages. in 2007, she received the order of canada for her contributions. we are soad blessed to have you living in our village. >> just when we thought it couldn't get any better for these two blockbuster women, we have stacey abrams moderating the discussion. activist, best-selling authors, entrepreneur and political leader. this is someone who made history as the first black woman to become gubernatorial nominee for
a major party, eight years as minority leader in the georgia house of reps. she product multiple organizations devoted to social issues and offered several best-selling books herself. she's earned more awards than i could list here in the time given. if everyone is ready to start, i'd love to headed over to stacy ,to moderate this discussion between hillary clinton and luis penny. stacy, take it away. >> thank you so much, laura and lucy. far from luis and welcome, madam secretary. >> thank you. it's wonderful. we've never met, i know you and hillary are close but this is a pleasure. thank you for doing this. >> hi, hillary. >> madam secretary --
>> okay, thank you. [laughter] >> it was easy when we were applauding. >> we could solve a lot of our problems. ive cannot tell you how excitedi am to dor this with our two lol bookstores. i want to thank laura and lucy for this amazing partnership that brings new york and milton back together and the true icing on the cake is to have stacy, a prolific writerr herself. her latest blockbuster which i devoured, so thank you, thankou you for doing this. >> it's my honor, i am honored to get to meet luis, i told her one day when i am successful, i will be a writer like her so i am working on that. >> i'm planning to run for governor of georgia so.
[laughter]or >> i've already got up plant that tries to follow the shadows of secretary clinton so i got to admirable goals ahead of me. i want to talk about your book. i want to start further back, back to the beginning. riding with someone as a task. writing action with someone is an extraordinary feat. talk about first two secretary clinton, the most fundamental moment you had. [laughter] >> we were very lucky because we were friends before the process. we remained friends during the process and we are still friends after the process. in the book was so much fun to
write. if i had to take one moment, it would be when we were faced timing because we wrote this during the b pandemic and we wee faced timing at 7:00hi p.m. ando and behold, we were both already in bed. [laughter] those pandemic days seemed to get away from us. it was when i discovered being the true canadian she has where she was in pajamas in the winter so we had a lot of laughs about that. tthe pajamas found their way io the book readers. keep your eyes open. >> that's true andnd you have nt stopped mocking me for those pajamas for eight months. so to get back, ten days ago she came over here for lunch and i gave her a set of flannel pajamas. [laughter] >> it's a true.
[laughter] >> my favorite moment, that was definitely one of my favorites because i was concerned hillary would find me ince bed at 7:00, humiliating but then to find her in bed, thank god. [laughter] i think one of my favorite moments early on, we were trying to work out these synopsiso, publishers have little faith we know what we were doing. they probably had slightly less space than we had so we were fumbling along, what should we do? we knew of course you would be secretary of state from a woman of s course i would feature strg women of a certain age but that's not exactly. we were tossing things back and forth, it felt like eons for probably a week, maybe ten days over facetime. we got ourselves so confused.
[laughter] we just stared at each other and our screens had frozen. we literally lost the plot. [laughter] >> to be fair, it was losing the plot in that moment, it led to the plot because of the question you asked and that shows the give and take of our collaboration because at that time, what kept you awake as secretary of state? or the nightmares you had? as i began talking and conflicting with my nightmares, the idea of using the nuclear weapons. >> this wasn't just a part, that is what kept you up and still
does. it is a legitimate threat and that gave us the plot line, that was the idea and we worked for quite a while on this outline. don't think the publishers could quite believe it. >> you have a crime writer and secretary of state who decides to write a blockbuster together which itself is a novel so let's do the origin story, how did you to meet? how to this collaboration come into being? >> it's a wonderful story because we were brought together by my best friend literally since sixth grade, betsy johnson. during the 2016y campaign, betsy was doing interviews and you know what those are like. tell us about your friend, hillary and what you do together and on and on.
at one time, betsy said one thing we have done since we were a little girl, love to read and we trade books back and forth and talk about them and the reporters said what are you reading now? total serendipity the greatest i could have, betsy said we are reading this series, that article when a cop plaintiff, was picked up by the publisher. the publisher soft betsy and i read louise and i'll let you take it from there. >> than my publisher said, what you like to meet hillary clinton's best friend who read your books? she said by the way, hillary does, too. [laughter] i think i passed out for a moment or two. i said i would like to so i launched that book in chicago where betsy still lives wide
circle of your friends still live in many are tuned in today. i met betsy backstage before an event and it was those moments where we knew a lot of people, everybody does but when you meet someone special, it's like they have cap a seat at the table for you and there was betsy and i fell in love with her. she fell in love with me -- well, m i don't know about that but there was a mutual bond. then i went on tour and we kept in touch and two weeks later when i got back to her, my husband died. he separate from mentor. it was obviously shattering. i was going through letters of condolence and there was one from hillary. hillarywa clinton in the throesf
the brutal election campaign takes time to write about a man she's ever met, a canadian who can't. this must an act of pure altruism of just kindness. it meant so much to me and i coulduc see why so many people have admiration for her. politically but at that moment i could see why. i fell in love with her and we finally got to meet, have to tell you, you get a chance not only to meet hillary for five minutes and try not to say anything stupid, but i was invited with super a whole weekend. one of the chances?
so just one more short story you and i met, were at a restaurant a couple of people and you are flying in from boston after the election day so you are a little late in the restaurant was driving. hillary arrived in the place goes silent. as one, they rise and there was this standing ovation. i will never forget looking across the room and being so pleased. then as you are trying to eat, operate of young women came over and many of them weeping, thinking for what you have done. i never expected to witness anything like that, it was beautiful.
>> stacy knows about that because help but to go over her election. i feel strongly she one but we won't go there. we will stay on the book. we became friends henry spent time together and now our mutual friend, we even vacationed together. in july 2019, betsy passed awayl and lost her long fight with breast cancer. it was so sweet and poignant and incredibly profoundly sad we had a memorial service. luis was asked to speak and i spoke and through that meant the friends we had for so many years and become a caravan of friendship and i often say betsy had a genius, connecting them so
fast forward toward the end of 2019, early 2020, our respective agents approached us individually collaborating on a political thriller. by then, we become good friends. i admired her writing, i was pretty apprehensive. you've been writing fiction for a long time, i'm in the nonfiction world in fact check everything within an inch of its life and worry somebody is going to find it. out of place so i was kind of concerned and told myed agent lawyer and then we actually talked about it. we thought maybe we could see whether it's possible. and began facetime me because we were moving into thee pandemic around that time so our best
ideas going to a spot in writing this book never passed because we were stuck in our houses but we found collaboration to be incredibly exciting. at my first liberating, i love the freedom it gave us to tell a story we want people to enjoy, create characters we want them to be with but to tell a serious story what's going on in the world today. >> i'm going to pull questions from the audience and we've got some of them answered in this conversation but i want to pull a mary jane from ontario and she asked is a newly formed friendship, was the best of writing together after the friendship?
what jam did you discover about your co-author you didn't realize before? we are not going to talk about the pajamas. [laughter] >> that's a wonderful question. one of the reasons we brought it so tightly, so quickly and i suspect we probably would have anyway, we were both in profound grief and understood that and recognized it in each other and we came together not as the presidential nominee or best-selling author but just as to women badly hurt. i think we brought that into the friendship as well and it grew into something joyous which is something to come out of the shadow. it's an intimate experience to open yourself up creatively to another person especially the
part where you don't really have a grasp on what the story is going to be and what the themes will be for your taking a chance, wanted it to be about emotions, human beings, about friendships, love so that meant diving deep ourselves and exposing ourselves to each other. an incredible friend hillary is and how she could be trusted completely all of myou thoughts and my nuttiness and creativity. but also how creative she is. this doesn't happen, not just providing the facts what it's like to fly around the world from what provide for the insights into human nature, what
like to be a room with a bunch of frightened people trying to make a decision to move forward in a world under threat. i learned a lot about you. >> i could say exactly the same thing. in addition to the great friendship we have deepened during this process, just marching her work, being part of the creation she's capable of pulling out of herself, her heart and head and giving it to the world, a totally extraordinary experience for me personally. i used to m read how authors of fiction would be asked, did you
know where the story would end? take i haven't thought about it but often people would say not until i start writing, not until i meet the characters and it would thik to my self as a reader, what you mean? you created characters. all the seventh through this process and watching luis at work and talking to her about okay, for the secretary of state do what her best friend and counselor duplex sometimes would be talking and this burst of creativity would come from her, what if we did this or maybe we could have her or him say that. i found that self-correcting and it was a great gift for me to watch my g friend create this incredible scenario and come up
with the people in the center of it. it was an amazing experience, nothing i've ever had before. >> not like anything i've collaborated. it's impossible now to impart who did what. say something about why do we have this happen and say i don't think that works out but how about this? we trusted each other. we trusted with the throw out ideas without it being dismissed that we could be as creative and nutty and crazy as we wanted to be. of that, we could find the gems. it's interesting one of the themes through the book, i'm not sure it one week started with but it's one that developed as
we went on the ongoing theme of trust. i think in this collaboration, we learned we could trust each other out a more profound level we other ever could have otherwise you have a character from early in the book you have a young character has to decide if she trust herself and her instinct and in this contained, having grappled with multiple dimensions what it means to be young or be a woman or person of color, what it means to be different and in the work you've done, you have these careers to grapple with different dimensions of otherness. could you talk about this question of trust having learned to trustst yourself to be in the moments and become the woman you have become? >> what a great question and that's so important.
it really was something that ran through our discussions about our women character because we want to demonstrate these were not perfect women. these were not women with their own doubts, they are there expenses as you say, there otherness on the estimated, the experiences that actually happen in the reale world, women like s but also our character. our hope was we could almost in real time onmo the page, bring e reader in so the reader is inhabiting the young character as she's dealing with trying to make decisions about information she's beenn given.
how do you decide that? okay, you listen to your superior but later on you have second thoughts and then you listen to yourself but then you've got to get other people to listen. the process of making hard decisions in writing or politics, government, whatever it might be is truly learning how to trust yourself and having not just trust on your instinct because that can lead you astray if you're not careful but listening to your instincts, inner voice and bouncing off against the evidence you have against what you've done before and burned before. we do try to open that window because not only with the young character but even the character of ellen adams, secretary of
state or her best friend and counselor, they are constantly second-guessing themselves trying to figure out, where'd we get the information? how do we make sense of any of this? it is high-stakes diplomacy but also life. we want about to come across. >> very much. it was fascinating to try to get deeper and deeper into the characters and to do that we had to own our own experience. the other thing that was fun and fascinating to follow his in this chaos happening because there are all these crises and secretary and running around trying to figure out what is happening and what information is real, she has this relationship from others friendship with her counselor, betsy and that is the one person, thank god, that she could trust so it was nice to have that pillar within all of
this chaos, this home she could go to and betsy could as well, they absolutely trusted each other and it serves well in terms of the plot, it acted as a deep breath for the audience, the reader. >> i'm going to take another audience question and this is from lorna. she says we know the book was a work of fiction but given your experience and insider knowledge of the inner workings of the state department, was the subject to official screening before it was set to a print? >> it wasn't because the facts in it like where the secretary's office is, it mahogany rope, i was very careful to make sure anything in the book is inak the public main so let me give you
an example or two. it is absolutely true when i was asenator and secretary of state but i became aware of how dangerous miniaturized nuclear weapons could be. i remember being at a briefing where the briefer basically set you could put a nuclear weapon, probably a dirty bomb, may be something slightly more sophisticated into a suitcase. ... the public record,
but it is not necessarily well known by the public. so when i told louise that one of my nightmares was the prospect of terrorist groups succeeding through connections with the russian mob or some other really bunch of bad actors , getting i getting information on the deep web that they would then follow up on and we decided for a story, several people already mentioned to me that they had finished reading the book and they said i had no idea so we wanted to paint something that is truly terrifyingg and put it at the center of the plot and then of course little things like secretary of state flies around on a military plane and she doesn't command the military. that's the president and the secretary of defense so there
are some scenes where the secretary of state has to call the president with whom she has a rocky relationship that things evolve of course in the book so i said i need to go to country x and they said what you talking about but they had to give me her mission in order to do that. >> you were hoping they would get kidnapped and leave them with this troublesome woman. >> you talk about women who are underestimated and diminished and that's one of the things that any woman who is listening right now has experienced like the two of you but we wanted to have that experience of getting inside of the head of a woman who knows perfectly well what's happening around the table with these other wolfie men who are
dismissing her and how the secretary whether it be the current president or other leaders or the people around the table how she manages to navigate and use it to her own advantage. >> summer journalist to the cdc and covered it like the heart pounding stories in journalism. what scared you the most beyond the issue of the cases moving through the countryside and what did you uncover in the research and writing of this book that caught you unaware that make you think i'm glad i didn't. >> beyond the nightmare hillary was implanting them in one of them was exactly what she was
describing but i was always focused on north korea or iran or these difficult states and nations that may or may not have a nuclear weapon but there is some oversight and there were sanctions and things that could be put into place and hillary explained to me quite clearly was that yeah that might be true that there is no break like that and there is no hold on terrorist groups and that was pretty terrifying. rv'ers lisa hillary i could go to for all sorts of information but i did do a lot of googling and i was surprised they didn't report my google history with uranium and bombs. [laughter] there was a lot that was
disconcerting for sure that we got into into this and what i've heard from people who are reading it is that it is entertaining and thrilling and it makes you think, it makes you think. i'm sorry stacey. it was the external threat of this open the door and speak as readers and those of us who are unfamiliar with what secretary clinton went through and to see the external threat but what we fail to do sometimes is to turn around and realize that the real threat is already in the room with us and you talk about the vast silence and we are seeing it now. people who know perfectly well what is right and what is the truth and don't speak out. that was terrifying. >> what of the most fun parts of
writing fiction is that you get to the view characters with things he would never admit you wanted to be so without giving away a thought point can you describe a characteristic or characters that showed who you are who you wish you could eat? >> we talked about my friend who became louise's friend and there was another friend of mine allen tauscher from california who became one of the experts on nuclear arms and i asked her to leave the congress and come to work in the state department where she was the official of the secretary of nuclearar arms control and stolen was not only a deer friend of mine but also she passed away in may of 2019
but she was shrewd and she was smart and she was toughened during her time with me in the obamag administration she was such an effective negotiator with the russians. we were trying to negotiate a treaty called the s.t.a.r.t. treaty that would limit and reduce nuclear weapons in both countries because we have partnered with and i hope you would never think about using but we were running into all kinds of problems and a lot of the men who were involved in the negotiations were being really frustrating because russia is quite good at being frustrating when they want to to be an allen called me one night and said this is ridiculous. we have got to get this done and she said i'm going to go stop by the white house and get the
retired general jim jones and i said you go a knock she went and literally her ability to be both tough and charming, to be a strong and determined to go toe-to-toe with anybody but to bring them coffee if that would help soften them up so that they would be receptive was just unmatched. she was one of the most effective politicians and diplomats and i knew her very well and i admired and adored her and i think about how ellen is able to absorb the contempt in the disdain and she tries to find where is the point of advantage and how do i maneuver through that?
so i certainly understand it and i've tried my own way to do it but my friend ellen tauscher who can go to the tow with some tough customers and leaders of some really hard countries in the book minded me of how she hadnd done it too. >> i would say oddly enough i would say the same a thing although i never got to meet ellen. it's bringing our ellen alive in that column that she had and the bravery she had and the ability to move forward and move back and know when to do it and when not to and she as you the questions on purpose to relax people so they think they are in the presence of -- so they will open up.
i wish i was more like that more manipulative. [laughter] >> i guess i'm saying the same thing. [laughter] >> bruce from ontario wanted to know is it easy to take the criticism and suggestions that editors provide in order to achieve the final copy and how did you all navigate when you got that list of editors notes? without ptsd. >> the manuscript hillary and i handed in was perfect. [laughter] and the other thing we do of course as they say, they have read the manuscript so they know how to manipulate it. this is perfect.
and she had pointy pages of notes. [laughter] except for the plot and the character and maybe the theme but we like the plot. it was very good. [laughter] i'm trying to remember what we did. the thing that was so interesting about writing of course is in this case it's hillary and i together and we formed one person but then you have to become a team player and be open in be willing to be open to people who have only the best in mind you are much more experienced at this than either of us and who may or may not have a couple of -- although there was a stage where we are going fair i think he wass the line edit. i was in london and we were facetiming and we said how about
this one, keep it exactly the way it is. and you remember the next day you said i'm thinking maybe we should go back to that. >> yes both of you know so well the editing process can be both your best friend in your worst enemy.an if got a fresh pair of eyes and in this case we had the wonderful editor from louise's publishing house who had worked with louise before so we had somebody that louise trusted and therefore trusted in him we have the copy editor and then we had another layer of editing. we went through a lot of edits but it was great because we
would look at them and then we would discuss themok and we woud say oh yeah that's a point that we should maybe make clear or raise the problems that we need to resolve. if there has ever been a point where we might have might have had some tension or difficulty in a u-turn in the manuscript and you both think it's in good shape and then we are flooded with all the suggestions and we did work through it but toward the end we got frustrated. >> don't change it at all. >> one of the things that the editor helps with and that somethinghi that you and i struggled with and we eventually got low fatigue but because the secretary is flying all over the place and every things are happening in different parts of the world that different times but it's all coming to a head and we know when bad things are going to happen but we had the
timeline makes sense not only in terms of the content but it's helped with some of the rational things. i think we were lucky, will not likely, we worked very hard at it butar the notes you know you don't have to rewrite the whole thing. >> the notes were helpful. they were not discouragingng at all. they were very helpful. >> secretary clinton you have written several other works and you alluded to this a bit to talk about the shift into fiction writing and if you want to stay here now that you've joined us in the landt of fictn do you plan to build a condo? [laughter] >> you know stacey, i have so enjoyed this and i will tell you what i enjoy the most about it.
people have been asking us in all of our interviews and everything are we going to do more? we don't know. we are so did this moment because it's been such an amazing experience so there's literally no talk between louise and i about any such thing but you know particularly my autobiography or my book about the state departmente and hard choices and my book after the election which was as much an effort on my part about what happened which is why i called it that the nonfiction part you have to be careful with them you have to make sure you you're missing a factor whatever but i kind of view them a little bit like >> you know? i want to tell you about how diplomacy works and let me give you some examples. here are the 112 countries that went to the secretary of state and for these reasons to try to
further american foreign-policy and national security or here's what i think happened in the 2015 election. we have the russians and they cameme with all this other stuff happening. it's not just going to happen once. i think we could make a number of the same same points and of course we do particularly about internal threats in the united states which we are currently facing. in the form of this book "state of terror" a fictional book in a way that doesn't feel like you need to eat spanish. it feels like a fun time reading along and all of ae sudden youo oh you mean the people who attacked their capital, some of them thought they were patriots.
how one or can they rationalize that we have some of those same people in this book, people who have connections with foreign adversaries, people who are connected to the former president who in the book as someone who shares characteristics with our real former president reckless and easily manipulated by outside in domestic forces trying to cajole and sweet talk and flatter him into doing things that are terrible for america and the world and you know it may be a little cleaner and easier for people as they oh okay. we broke this book before we knew who was going to be elected in 2020 and we certainly had much of the book done before january 6 happened and yet we now have a fictional look which
for many readers will kind of raise some questions have become a cautionary tale that might be more effective in getting people to think and speak out and be heard than all the nonfiction that either anybody else might write. >> louise for you as someone who created this extraordinary character who moved from criminal fiction into political thrillers with comedy and a sidecar of romance have you discovered in this writing a new genre that you want to explore and are you thinking about other ways you want to use this creative writing talent that you have? >> the fact is i loved writing this book. it was exciting and it was different and i think hillary and i both knew if we were going to write it we wanted to have
strong female characters who are also rollerball and who were relatable and a plot that was sadly believable.el and to write with a great friend as well so that was really really exciting but the fact is it's where i live and that's where my heart is and i will always go back to those books because it's given me a life that i had never dreamed i could ever have an everyday wake up and thank the heavens that this life exists and i can explore everything i need to explore which are crime novels but it's the crime is the alpha not be omega which is the trojan horse and that's what we did with this
book. you have terrible things happening but they are the beginning of the exploration. >> i just want to add one point to what luis said about thist book. if we had been asked to write a political thriller five years ago and we had written this book i don't think anybody would have published it. they would have said are you kidding meey quite you can't mae an american president that complicit. you can't have a coup attempt from with in the white house that is going to cause the death of americans to overturn our government. i mean, and what are you guys drinking or smoking or read ever? so part of it is this is it look that somebody wrote ripped from the headlines a cliché and it is
ripped from the headlines but it's about deeper the universal more a terminal issue in question. we mentioned trust and we mention friendship then we mention love, courage and these are all themes that will ease has explored in the amash book so even though we have looks from the amash and the bistro at the bookstore and the whole life of her character the themes that she has plumbed and excavated over the course of 17 books runs through this book because when you get right down to it, what are the external values and if we aree talking about standing against evil or recklessness or mean-spiritedness or hate and
eventually does what dr. martin luther king said you don't get rid of hate with hate. you get rid of hate with love. it's c a little hard trigger tht sometimes it is certainly hard to exercise it at this book is truly about those bal use so i think even notes in a different genre there's a lot of direct lines coming from the land of the amash to bell and adams. >> i'm going to ask you guys one last question in both you pay kind tribute at the beginning of the book to the women who have shaped your life and we talked a little bit about this but talk about why it was was so ported to both of you and i will start twith you luis and then secretary. women are fully formed, fully flawed fully exceptional
characters in this book and they are plenty. talk about how you brought the personal and the creative to the women in the story and why was so important that you do that. >> there was a time in my life for a number of years where if you'd other women with suspicion as people who i was competing against for a man or for a promotion for something else i didn't have a lot of female friends. then you reach a kind of a breaking point and i broke and when i got back and looked around it was women who lifted me up and i bonded immediately with women and understood at a deep level how important it is to have women in my life and not on the periphery or standing on the front porch but in the
living room of my life. so that's, i mean why would we write this book together unless two women of a certain age writing about women of a certain age unless we were writing about how important relationships are and neither hillary nor i were interested in spending our life in isolation writing somethingor formulaic and superficial. we wanted to have it talked about and we wanted to bring down the walls of the readers would not be voyeurs that walking beside ellen and feeling that love and friendshipip and what goes with perhaps losing it. >> louise i was thinking about how you told me one of the first conversations that we had about
the group of women writers, artists academics that you became part of when you are beginning your writing career and that you bonded with in the eud began to trust and that you learn to listen to and they learn to listen to you and you would share your work which is a hugely vulnerable thing. >> i learned in sharing my work and getting out there that i wasn't going to dai-ni was the not risking that was going to kill me. >> and i think that not risking is something we hope and obviously all regaled -- readers but particularly women will take fromom this because i've been blessed to have really good dclose, loving smart supportive friends my entire life and i
needed them. i needed them throughgh the ups and downs of my life and my career and obviously that's he was someone whoho had been withe literally for from the beginning of my teenage years all the way forward but i had others as well and i think there is this kind of attitude that women can't really be friends and it goes with what louise was just saying you know the a competition for e mail or the promotion or for the opportunity, whatever it might need is just too baked into the dna to be able to overcome that. that is just not been my experience.th not everyone in the crosses my
path and we all know that but the ones that you share your life with than the ones you learn from so we do want this story about these two friends who haveat something that other women can relate to and feel like oh my gosh it's possible and i would end on two nodes. when we wrote our knowledge met at the very end and there was something that luis said which lreally struck me pray she said this is a book about sharing but it's also about love and encouragingly wanted t to be abt love and courage and i wrote whether or not the state's fiction is up to us and i believe that with all my heart. it they see you have been on the front lines fighting for our democracy and i want to publicly thank you as i have in other forms because i want people as
many as we can reach to understand we are in a fight for our democracy. we are in a fight for all these values that the men and women who are the heroes in our book stand for and i hope as i said earlier people might read this book and go wow i need to get into that fight too. >> on that note to the acclaimed novelist to the extraordinary and incredibly kind secretary hillary clinton thank you on behalf of the audience for the sublimest "state of terror." [laughter] >> thank you. >> thank you. and thanks to laura for pulling this off. >> here, here.
>> edward moser isn't a historian to her garden philosopher but his latest book is called lost history of the capitol and account of many bizarre episodes around the u.s. capital building in the founding of the federal city in the 1790s up to contemporary times. among many accomplishments in his career at moser's been a speechwriter for george herbert