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tv   After Words Vivek Ramaswamy Woke Inc.- Inside Corporate Americas...  CSPAN  November 1, 2021 12:59am-2:00am EDT

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according to npd bookscan prince books were up 3% for the week. book tv will continue to bring you new programs and publishing news and you can watch all of our past programs anytime at book tv.org. >> cap next on book tv author interview program afterwards, argues that corporate america is signing onto woke culture only to increase profits. he is interviewed by harvard university economics professor greg mankiw and afterwards is a weekly interview program with relevant gas hose interviewing top nonfiction authors about their neatest work. >> welcome. it's a delight to be here. to chat with you, congratulations on the book.
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i know how much work it is to write a book so congratulations. i have been watching the sales on amazon and obviously you hit a chord because a lot of people are buying it and that's great because it's a great book, very readable, very interesting, very provocative and it's a very important topic. i'm delighted to be here to chat with you. before we get to the book, i would like you to tell us a little bit about your biography because i think your biography shapes the things you are riding in this book and you have an interesting biography. .. we would ask my dad why would you come halfway across the
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world? he said actually his sister had come over from india to fort wayne, indiana parade this prompted us to ask why did she come halfway across the road to fort wayne, indiana. it's the only u.s. estate contained with the word india in the statement that's a joke we tell. we were born and raised in ohio. my parents did not come for much money but they did have an education's when the valuable things they gave us pretty much a public school through eighth grade, went to a private catholic high school even i'm not catholic i graduate in 2003. 911 took place and is in high school something that shaped my worldview as a young american. then went to harvard, i did take the class i believe you teach now economics among others i was a biology major. i studied molecular biology. i was a nerdy science guy through college. and then when i graduated i got into the world of biotech investing. in the fall of 2007 just before the 2008 financial
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crisis which i will say also dramatically shaped my views have not only capitalism, but the merger of capitalism and politics one of the core themes of the book. anyway, i did that for several years printed up for seven years. three years i sent it to my bosses i was going to leave and go to yale law school. that got me some career mobility instead we could manage a portfolio force i spent three years met my wife was most productive payment came out of it she was my next-door neighbor in med school she was. when i graduated a rose is much more interested in getting hands-on involves to i started my own company i served for seven years as a company ceo twos freak
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speedily freely and not only rolling out this book suffice to say having built a company as a challenge i need to speak freely there did not harm the company and my own >> duty on what i had seen behind closed doors over the last 50 years. i was not born into an elite america but i have lived it for the last decade and a half. some were experiences insights and perspectives i felt i needed to share deal to shape the conversation about where we go as a people from here. that is what is at stake the heart of the discussion of the relationship between capitalism and democracy. >> he did a great job in the book especially the last chapter simple with the theme.
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when capitalism and democracy mixed themselves up too much they suffer for it. it's very clear experience as a ceo but even before even as great story early on in the book between capitalism and democracy. for better or worse in my opinion worst typifies that relationship the really elite
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top harvard students there is things i would wish i was better at getting myself into protective core doors of elite america act on that over the last 15 years for their better skills one can have that the skill either on accident or purpose i happen to have it repeatedly practice. the summer of 2006 included i was a student at harvard took an internship at goldman sach's. there's something i learned that summer is not something i expected to learn. i thought i would evaluate companies it. i did learn a lot about how to aggregate power. had aggregate power we go to
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harlem and plant trees. when i noticed my showed up at harlem no one was interested in planting trees but everyone showed up except for the boss who is door to be found. no one was planting trees for their telling investment war stories they catch up on the gossiper know what was planting trees which is a thing went to harlem to do. the managing director the guy at the top of the food chain by the name they were slim fit suits, tailored shirts they do not wear rolexes they have visibly cheap black rubber wrist strap. with it and said hey guys, take the pictures and get out of your that's exactly what we did. we started drinking but i asked when the older associates nearby and said look, we wanted to call it a social day we should've called it that rather than service
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day. and his response stuck with me. if you ever heard of the golden rule and i said of course i had. you treat others like you want to be treated. he said no, the golden rule is this. he who has the gold makes the rules. and that stuck with me frederick i did learn something valuable that summer after all. as the rule i saw on display ten years later when goldman sach's from the mountaintops they would not take a public company in the united states if it was insufficiently diverse. to exercise a power in the marketplace of idea. it's the greatest form of corporate overreach of all. that is actually a big part of why he wrote the book. >> another story we tell the
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beginning of the book which is similar is about fearless girls. can you tell us? >> so she makes a difference is what it says at the base of the statue. she has that mail power that stood for. that turned out that was commissioned by state street stands not just at first she it's also the ticker of the exchange fund that's it diversity index. a stock that embodies these progressive social values and of course they charge a fee in the process. is even better than that. they built the statue around the time they allege they did not get paid enough as much as their mail counterparts. of course when accused by
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female employees of not paying them enough not paying them as much as their mail counterparts they did exactly they expected it. we cannot make this stuff up the creator of the statue had a few more copies of the statue. his effeminacy is proud of what we created. state street sued her for creating unauthorized reproductions of the statue had commissioned for it comes full circle the magic trick until about the book, you pretend i'm a trick is not so joe we tell in the book is taken interest in he invite me as a workshop we worked out the public law class.
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the girl in the class he raised her h the end still that girl inspired me and nobody can take that away, even state street cannot take that away. something that takes me deeper in the exploration in the early draft something to be said for really exploring the way in which awoken us can stand on its own 2 feet when it's intermingled with capitalism. a big part of the book is just not just that woke ideology but it's a merger with me that taints the progressive values
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at the statue one expects the artist may have had different motivations and state street. >> exactly, exactly the. >> motivated by the artist. has this uncomfortable marriage between the progressive left in the business in the country state street got covered for their loss that they were facing with their female employees. it's written large in the post era since occupy wall street were effectively occupy wall street is a tough pill to swalwell. it's a generation of big bangs got together the generation of woke millennial's. together they have woke capitalism and that is what
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allowed them to occupy wall street up for adoption. and that worked so well everyone else started replicating it and getting in on the act. i think silicon valley does a version of it were they effectively censor or moderate they don't do it for free the unspoken ascus new democratic party looks the other way when leaves monopoly power intact. whether it's a monopoly or not it's a trait working masterfully for both guys run the goals of this book is to shine some sunlight on that reality so the consumers at the example of state street
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using a progressive agenda to further their own goals which are not political at all. what about capitalism more generally. can a ceo or a board embrace stakeholder capitalism does it make sense? might shareholders have other goals of maximizing profits. will help pursue those goals whether it's company climate change, diversity and the width and packing in the discussion anyway. there's different kinds of woke capitalism or stakeholder capitalism. it's at least three different things. first you have the problem of the executive who ultimately it's a problem he loves his
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position as ceo to advance a common good. even if that means using shareholder resources as part of his platform to do it. on that telling of the shareholders are the victims and illegible people do not like the behavior the ceo may be breaching to the shareholders by misusing their resources for the ceo omits a multimillion dollar donation to his high school or to his temple where he worships pretty think most people would agree that was something they'll be objectionable as a breach of duty a breach of being custodian of the shareholder resources. i think part of what you can debate is that that same ceo writes a check to different temple call black lives matter. why should that be treated any differently? might be the perpetrator we have a shareholder you are executive and we demand the
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particular social values. that's what black rocket tries to pull off as a capacity they have a sustainability accounting standards that says if a company does not meet its standards that will disinfect from that company. now there's a problem of the woke executive the first phenomenon at work. it's not black rock as an investor is about a million or people who are investors who are after money with the blackrock it is their ceo and managerial classes he woke executive all over again. you have a number of investors are certainly saying you as the executive have to advance the values the investors want to push. there are different from a third phenomenon of what a cult woke consumerism. the consumers themselves and generally progressive consumers to man the ceos of the companies that buy their
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products from embody the values as consumers. i think you can argue that his capitalism a working paid by the offeror in the book is more cultural commentary to say that the symptom of an deeper cultural or we and our culture as consumers more portly as citizens are hungry for a cause and hungry for a sense of purpose. but we have resorted to superficial means i can mixing morality with commercialism that demands more substantial. that is a one access with three types of woke capitalism the consumers. there's a different and you touch on this as well those who pursue it and authentically has examples or services the phones that category that's the majority of cases a big part of what a lay out in the book. there is a decided minority who believe in the values they
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are ultimately using the corporate platform to push. here's a place where i change my mind over the course of writing the book. i began taking aim at this that cynical kind by the end of the book i was more convinced the bigger threat to democracy was the authentic kind you actually have someone who's purposefully using their corporate platform as a way of sidestepping public debate using economic force but force none the less to settle the question that ought to be settled through free-speech and open debate in the public square where everyone's voice and everyone's voice is weighted equally on objective by the number of dollars in the market that's the biggest threat of all. one of the realizations at writing the book is the evolution of my own perspective. >> another way this could enter the corporations to the employees. not only to consumers demanding it but the employees of the firm and here's an interesting story of what
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happens in the black lives matter movement. can you tell us about that story? >> i think what i learned is my experience as a ceo or a nearly identical to many other ceos in similar positions. in the wake of georgia floyd tragic death but it was a tragic death and at this point we can say decidedly a murder. their protests across the country there's a national reckoning about race relations in the use of police force. there's also also a demand that companies somehow play a role in rectifying that problem. i have an issue with that for all the reasons i lay out in the book. i certainly take issue with the blanket claim of systemic racism as a term without defining more specifically what that means. but a more principal issue was that i do not think corporations should be using their market power to substitute for free speech and
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open debate that ought to be taking place as i said earlier in the public square in our democracy. i respect their perspective they said look, we came to work at a place that did more than just pursue profit we were developing medicine for patients who need them. arguably very few callings higher than that. especially in my younger employees that also meant there is a new expectation the business of played a role broadly and rectifying other social injustice as well. that is something that led to a deep level of reflection and introspection for me. wondering if i swing to make the right counter arguments or was i wrong? especially now with my own employees but some of my investors and board members felt the same way a raise similar questions. it really made me question whether i was decided to being
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a slave and intellectual slave of some economics classes at harvard. whether i was actually in the wrong and failing to think about the unique challenges were actually government was failing. maybe corporations did need to step up and address social issues they were not addressing. i came out on the other side of it with a stronger conviction in my own position of why it's important for the sake of democracy and capitalism to separate each from the other pretty think us on the other side of the journey i am very grateful for. being able to take me through a personal journey of deconstructing that new first before constructing it and building and up. i think with greater and more solid foundation on the other side. >> eventually stepped down? what you state or these continuing pressures coming from your board, your employees, how do you think
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you would have responded? >> it's funny i went to that journey with introspection and ended about seven months later when i realized it had taken a full circle. typically unlike larry think or other ceos of the different world view corporate is comfortable to point their social views onto others. i never did that at least i believe i never did that as my time as ceo of a company. however i had begun speaking out regularly riding in the wall street journal, peering even on cable television and other media expressing my own views on the very topic of capitalism, the spread of critical theory and academia. the ideas spread through american life. these are condensed topics and i actually had to take a step back and practice what i preach to walk the walk and realized as a ceo, i did my best to avoid using the corporate platform is forcing
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my views on others for the nature of the topic talked about that was impossible to do perfectly in practice. so in order to protect the company for my own perspective in my own ability to speak freely without having to think in the back of my head about what the stewardship role for the company with the best thing to do is to separate from my role as a ceo is my is a citizen pregnancy over several years. i would not of been free to write everything i was riding in the book if i had to also run into the lens of deciding what impact that was going to have on it being extrapolated to be in the business boy's voice on these issues too i separated that for my voice of the company step down as ceo of which i am a member elevated a new person to the role of ceo. and i was led to speak more freely. not as a ceo but ordinary citizen. and i hope everyone would find. >> i wondered if you had
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continued on what you would have felt forced to do? if i am eight cynical kind of woke capitalism if you are a fiduciary a in this era were a strange alliance between the progressive left and corporations, maybe the way to maximize shareholder value may be what golden zach's and they were doing was pursuing their fiduciary obligation to shareholders. it is possible. i openly explore that possibility in the book. i talked about the phenomenon of woke consumerism. that's different in our country the hunger for a vacuum with more substantial fairs and awoke as him then the merger of consumerism. it may be right may be companies are doing the right thing for there's also an alternative school of thought
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this is a temporary mark and inefficiency but there's a great opportunity you have half the country that's quietly frustrated with nike signaling it's a virtue with black lives matter. there's not a good speaker alternative that is a good speaker alternative a right wing alternative version to the left wing version that is ultimately pushed to the consumer sector today. the best i can tell it's starbucks for republicans. i have an issue with that the parade mine main issue, talk about this a little bit in the book if this were shark tank, i was a betting on it i think in many cases there is an opportunity to be able to use a different set of values. conventionally conservative values and co- mingle that that appeals to a different kind. i don't think that is good for us as a people or a country though.
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the private sector, our economy, our sports stadiums used to be places that brought people together irrespective if they were black or white part irrespective if they are democrat or republican. but once we lose that innate divided democracy like ours, we lose the possibility of solidarity itself when our economy and our sports become politicized as they have. i worry if we lose those centuries is to bring us together crossed our division, we may be closer to a trajectory towards a civil war than when we are achieving solidarity in her own right. that may be the peak beginning of the end of the american experience.
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and they total structure and india. if the ability to bring people together across other culturally divided categories. once we lose that the mix capitalism itself a source of further division. that may be where we are naturally heading. absent some sort of serious cultural intervention. i think the book we have different division of how we can go forward. the idea of systemic racism the legacy of slavery is terrific and african americans today what then do
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corporations have responsibility what other institutions you think should be stepping up and what should they be doing? >> i have a few issues with the modern dogma of systemic racism. one is actually a claim of descriptive clarity. it is unclear to me what the term even means. racism means something to me. it's taking action on the basis of some kind of pernicious prejudice but that's racism i understand what that is pretty think it's wrong, think it exists and we should combat it. think it exists in a much smaller scale today that has in prior areas of history. he made steady progress over the decades that it represents i think racism represents a pressing problem decades ago.
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the same way it did 60, 50 or 60 years ago by think anyone who claims that doesn't are big part of what the progressive left claim today by think it is disingenuous the jim crow era in the 60s or 70s. we had slavery is a pretty preposterous claim. systemic racism is a sloppy way of actually defining what the problem is forever sent racism is, to be fleshed out and be defined as a phenomena. a set of solution that demands of fighting racism with more racism. i love the john roberts school of thought the base best way to end discrimination on the basis of race. and take it from me, and the
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most articulate proponents of the alternative view. in that direct quote from his book had to be antiracist is the only remedy to past discrimination is a present discrimination. the remedy to president jim present skirmishes future. believe it or not i disagree a big part of my views dogma systemic racism effectively as co- mingled with solutions that demand for the racialized which i think are likely to be counterproductive in every direction. including serving pooling the black community and brown communities the thing i reject there through the class instead there when the intellectual underpinnings of
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a local government for their certain ways a black woman like oprah will be disempowered relative to a person who might live 10 miles down the street for me here in ohio might live in the opioid epidemic rust belt of white america that involves a lot of poor people that may have struggles of their own but may not be black or may not be a woman. i reject the idea that oprah winfrey inner struggle as a black woman ought to have any more of our concern than somebody who might be a poor white man i think 90% of what both sides could agree on is people who are economically disempowered, black access to a good educational system. black access to capitol. black access to participate in the economy. that's a whole universal to embrace. it could be more about an agenda that lifts everyone up they share in the same way.
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part of the issue is the kinds of solutions that can economically empower everyone instead of characteristics like race, gender, sexual orientation which is what it's focused on today. i think the narasimhan is sloppy, it is a lazy term we define exactly what we mean those along the axes that have nothing to do with race. your reaffirming action. exit word. it is a disservice to the people it is supposed to help.
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in part, when you are not look at a black pilot in the cockpit of american airlines once they had a quota system that's predicated, there is no way that any human being to have a moment of instinct whether a female pilot or a non- white pilot in the cockpit they had to get rid of the test to create this new system. no black pilot or more female pilot risk deserves. i think that is something that is unjust not only to the white pirates who are excluded, that might be one strain of injustice we hear about but injustice to the very people who may have earned their position but now cannot be distinguished that those who did it.
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more and forcing the idea that certain racial categories could not excel but for elite intervention. even its losing popularity map is resist the discipline the idea that two plus two equals four, that discipline that is racist because of the inequitable outcomes in mathematical achievement. i think itself a racist idea that one of the things we have been doing is right when racism has reached an all-time low where throwing kerosene on and turning that into a new concentration of its own. that's part you ask precise question, look, i actually think there is something to be said innate liberal arts university to create the conditions for students to have some from legacy students
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who came from, i was not in this but i was exposed to kids who did come for multigenerational harvard families, billionaire families and eric said that i as a kid who grew up as a kid with no money in ohio would never have interacted with. some ways was able to benefit from people from a totally different culture just as well as i could interact as black people from the inner city with a different challenge than i did. i benefit as a student from all those things. there's probably about five times as many students who could've been just as well qualified to attend there. so the ability to use some idea of composing diverse class on diversity and something that i can really am quite so pathetic too. that's the diversity of their experiences but the best way to screen for diversity of thought, this is diversity of
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thoughts. that racism was committed in the first thing which is to complaint someone's thoughts with the color of their skin. should an object it the corporate tear. they i think at the end they strictly be better off in society even there and elsewhere to we abandoned affirmative action. how many corporate workforces but with a much more vibrant diversity of thought and experience in the process.
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how do they benefit. the employees who follow, the founders to work for them the lengths of the stool there's a fourth leg of the school which is higher management were paid by the shareholders, the board to create bureaucratic leaders intermediate between the other stakeholders be the problem with be a member of the managerial class is this, the more people you are accountable to, the less accountable you are once you are accountable to everyone, you are accountable to no one for that's part of the story we tell the book and empowers it self one of things that allows them to ultimately have
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power is one of the agency failures we discuss an economics class or law school, or those that arise from hiring somebody to base stewart for the person who is the ultimate owner. when you say actually not only are the ceos responsible but also to be more not shareholders at all who might be stakeholders like stakeholders, or stakeholder -ism is poorly defined. anyone could be a stakeholder. one of things i lay out in the book is the first book that lays out the geopolitical implications no one hasn't
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managed to make themselves a quiet stakeholder the muscle as a stakeholder can do and dangerous things how did china take advantage of those? we began in my opinion on the misguided premise that we could use capitalism as a vector to spread our own political values like democracy. we thought we could use our money to get them to be more like us. instead china has turned that on its head but their views
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are economic muscle undermining on the global page of type exactly what i mean. when you meet the demand of stakeholder capitalism the woke breed of stakeholder, part of what that demand is companies criticize injustice, even micro- aggression. micro- in its own terms. like systemic racism or trent phobia or misogyny, bigotry or whatever the thought of the day is. just take disney which a couple years ago said it could not shoot a film and the state of georgia bear past the equivalent of an antiabortion statute. yet they did not say a peep as they had sold the lawn last
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year there were over 1 million uighurs in concentration camps subject to forced sterilization, communist indoctrination. since the third reich of adjournment disney did not say anything. including some of the very authorities that are committing those human rights atrocities. that two-faced behavior is not just about hypocrisy. it's the moral standing of the united states with a false moral equivalence between chinese idealism that erodes our it is our moral standing on the global stage. once we have lost that, i think we have actually lost our status as a great power and what i think is the
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defining cold war for the next century. what to do? >> who is supposed to change their behavior for example within the workforce right now is a lot of people are afraid of expressing their belief. even on their own time the number of people who haven't fired over the course of the last couple of years for what they said at home or on social media, or for wearing a trump hat to work last year is staggering. those are good examples in the book. i think that's a product of the application of a policy that is not applied evenhandedly part either we get rid of protective classes like race and gender and
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sexual orientation altogether. in political speech. add political belief right there next to race, then you should not be able to be fired or d platform for being outspoken conservative or liberal for that matter. those are the kind of solutions you pray familiar with this it is a statute that among other things immunizes private companies for moving content like the federal
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protection he's bound by the same constraints as a federal government including the first amendment to the constitution of the united states. that's where the arguments i make facebook and google as we now know are working hand in glove with the government to censor hate speech or misinformation as the government defines up or that the government going to the back door what it could not directly due to the front door and the constitution and might basic principle is if it is a state action and disguise, the constitution still applies but a lot of my policy solutions illegal solutions come down to the simple principle you cannot have it both ways we have to ply pulsing for reply them at all in an evenhanded way but the backdrop of saying we may not be the spouses in the first place and the civil rights statutes but everyone else in think those things are really necessary but if they are a many to modernize them in ways that actually reflect the unintended consequences of political discrimination that's been created today. all of those are therapies
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though. we really need in this country is a cultural cure, a revival of the shared identities. the shared identity that demarcate this as americans today. the moral void and cancel walk this in return or capitalism in return the toy and wrote the book i hope the book has an impact and beginning to move the ball forward towards a new decade or may not be celebrate our diversity as much we will be celebrating what binds us together as one people. >> your absolute rights, what is harder in some ways of
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changing cultures than a phenomenon we went to switch. i agree it may be hard. there's always unintended consequences by definition there's unintended consequences of the policies we propose the book there are going to be once i did not consider. i've not talked about this in my other interviews probably one of the most important things to talk about. we have lost a sense of the pursuit of excellence as an end in itself. the apologetic pursuit of excellence is all about.
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we live in a moment's unifying i see a lot of the progressive left a minority communities who may be blaming immigrants for their own plight or second-generation kids who may be the generation of my kids that may have now have a practice and nonchalance towards their excellent and math and science with mediocrity. i am worried about that culture affecting our different spheres of public life. what i would like to see is a revival of excellence that can bring us together and lift up the paper that we want to lift up along with it. i touch on that in great depth in the book. i write a sequel, that is part
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of the cultural revival i'm talking about here. quick to mention the sequel. one of the questions as when asked he was what next? you have had an amazing career you've written a best-selling book you are still a very young man. i am really very curious what does the future hold? >> i appreciate it i started thinking about that my mind was spinning in a number of definitions this spring. the commitment i made to myself more than anyone else was to roll this book out and be able to speak in an uninhibited way about what i thought the problem was and at least the beginning of what i thought that solution could be. i started quickly learning as i started thinking about what possible paths is to be a prisoner of your own plans and the things you say hafted then become means to an end of achieving whatever and it is
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you want to go after next. that is new for me. i have done the rat race. mentor high school the thomas or my company was one big sequence like the olympics you watch people jumping over the track and field or jumping over one hoop after another. i have been blessed with what that has given me. look at what i wanted to say and say it in an uninhibited way but that's what i believe i've done in the book i hope people benefit from it. probably this time next year old will probably have to figure out what plan comes after that.
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having done all of these other great accomplishments in your life. can you see yourself getting involved in a political process? >> i could. something i have considered in different capacities. something that would appeal to be this year in the context of writing this book. i do not want to run what i'm saying pass some sort of pollster numbers or understand how a focus group reacts to it. it's hard to figure what you have got to say in your own right. i spent a good part of last year end a half is theirs they can have going into politics that's not there's not something she for any reason reason thinking about it i
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have also become convinced as you said earlier a big part of the change we need to see is in our culture. prayer political can be a driver? yes ronald reagan did it there's a lot of way to drive cultural change it could be within politics. i am keeping my mind totally open to where i could have the most impact and hopefully have some fun purposefully, selfishly along the way too. [inaudible] >> not that it mutely come to mind. going to be really honest with
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you. >> you explicitly endorse stakeholder capitalism. he's most a political leader right now he's very explicit and i want to move in the opposite direction of the. >> is moving in the opposite direction i'm advocating here. i still rooted for his success. when he took office he wanted to unify the country. something our country needs now more than anything else for example look at the struggle think the single thing he could have done when taking office was to give credit to the trump administration. forget it whether you think the like the guy or not.
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if your actual goal is to bring the country together to end the pandemic or dedicating a lot of lip service, the greatest way to build trust around that, the greatest way to build solidarity it would have give credit to your predecessor or someone else. and i am worried that the president platform to unify the country has already fallen short of the occasion to just the opposite of that. is there anyone i see as embodying that ideal, we learn anything from 1980 version someone i think of may not even be in the front pages of a newspaper. i'm sure that person are those people exist. i just hope they step up and do what our country needs. >> the political system can surprise us all the time. it often comes out of nowhere.
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>> we only have a few minutes left. i want to move way for your book for the last few minutes and asked, what other books you recommend? i love your book i strongly recommend people go by it. it's very readable. but, i have read some of yours to by the way. >> a good boy good to hear. let's hear. if you look at your own intellectual development that was influential to me. i was a freshman in college i read mills on liberty which was very. is there anything you recommend for your readers? >> something that influenced my book. i read a little bit someone
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who writes about the psychological need created by capitalism itself. one of the books i actually recommended was actually the brothers it's actually a story from that quote in the book that i will tell for the purposes of today. i do think it is one of the books that captures the human experience and only literature can. it should tell a story that is not come from the bible in the chapter until the grand inquisitor when christ comes back to work in the middle of the spanish inquisition. the grand inquisitor in the church spots of christ on the street and had him arrested pretty put them in a prison cell the iconic dialogue of that chapter is him at the inquisitor said to christ in the prison cell. he says we the church do not need you anymore.
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in fact, you work being here is an impediment to the church. then he sentences christ to death. now, and the book i talk a little bit about how that parallels the church of diversity. and the name of diversity was sentenced to death true diversity of thought all the while keeping up the appearance that's how i use that in my book. there are so many different layers far beyond what i take in from that lesson i took away from a lot. more recently written books not bad either our cynical theories which i discuss in the book. it talks about postmodern philosophy on its own terms written by two interesting authors at least i gathered from recent social media are kind enough to read my book as well. to quote them in my book it's a pretty cool book that came out recently that does not focus on the corporate so much bit on academia.
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the parasitic mind, that description as well and academia. no one had done corporate america had developed in spheres of public life that went beyond corporate america. i applied them to my analysis of corporate america and went into a different direction altogether. there is a sample of a few things that stuck with me off the top of my head. >> is a great recommendations. thank you very much and congratulations on your book. >> thank you i appreciate that. >> after words is available as a podcast. to listen is it c -- van.org/podcast or search the c-span after words your podcast app. and watch this cap booktv.org. just click the after words button at the top of the page. >> politics and prose bookstore in washington d.c.
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hosted a virtual event who spoke about the global impact of the meat to movement. >> for me i've been working on the 2016 campaign trying to live out the dream of electing a president here in the united states. and was really surprised in the aftermath of that election this wave of women's activism not only here in the united states, but around the world. think back to the women's march is not only here in d.c. it was on every continent. it was organized transnationally arise in activism with women in foreign policy against a track in activism. they see not only an increase
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of women raising their voices, starting with the women's march move into the meat to movement which goes global starting in october of 2017. also leads to an incredible rise in a broad range of countries. from afghanistan, two places in the middle east that would surprise you. we were really struck by this incredible wave and i had the opportunity women's activist, a survivor of slavery at the hands of isis where she was advocating against discrimination and sexual abuse against women. began trading stories about the rise they are seeing around the world. these stories were not being told in the american media.
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so lucky for me we can agree to join together, to write this together. we took this journey around the world. >> to watch the rest of this program visit book booktv.org. use the search box at the top of the page to co-authors rachel vogelstein and the title of their book, awakening. >> intellectual feast every saturday in american history tv documents america's stories and on sunday book tv brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. funding for cspan2 comes from these television companies and more including comcast. >> you think this is just a community center? no it's way more than that. comcast is parting with 1000 committee centers to kate why fight enabled for students from low income families get these they need to ready for

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