tv Officials Testify on Digital Financing of Terrorism - Part 2 CSPAN July 27, 2021 1:04pm-2:11pm EDT
sherry summarizes the requirements. >>? >> is that you're not know we very well . >> tracking number is the mining is virtual is the user it in an accident terrorism and violence extremists. like jerry said assessment services on his tendency to the city offices will broadcast force to work in the secret service ofis effectively arresting those engaged in viruses that are
authorized to investigate world. years his service decision to copies as institutions, and to maintain extensive expertise, capabilities and financial systems, criminal misuse and you as they are increasingly transactional able digital. secret service has a distinctive success is related to the thesis is that it is mental some of those work on platforms and brought to justice some of and for the sleepwalkers cyber criminals in us history. and he the patient always criminals are using to explore new service. our body is the role. i of the online agency
focuses on focusing our places and events in price undermining injury financial systems. is your privacy is rests in systems as well as our money. today i will run digital line is the work of the secret service and our partners in a rests. i believe the rests will i extremism and i actually motivated by usable forms from now. i was discussed while digital money is not inherently the use with criminal. a longer address terrorism and violence extremists. they made strides as it was
use of occasionally is the ongoing will continue years. congress terrorists and actors continue to use it a lot has been to insurance valuable as it is eating and family law consoles through well-establishedindustries will . the industry improves money-laundering recent secret service is staying one step ahead. finally he release to meet the following products continue to detect and curse those engaged in reality using digital line of the places r. we do is requirecontinuous investments and evil . the investigation of cybercrime isn't having more media studies the professional with a technology expertise he continued to be successful in the future as the.
always really what is. as for the use of digital currency or the internet you will use those assets and services and the tracks. investigative work on secret service partners in a meeting long when you secret service, hsi or any of the other in this agency of the us us and the law. will not want to see the army as many citizens are. writing something, and you're the secret service. mostly they are shared is a welcome message.
>> i all witnesses is online subcommittee the five minutes to question. why is under the screen. and is five minutes total of five strong. i'll myself for questions. this transpired and you almost contextualize the address. we know there is a number of terrorist organizations. there's extremist organizations in place. how significant is the use of currency versus other types of currency. versus traditional types of currency? is art presentedb& and you would.
>> .in terms of this is the first was to light on the additional sources of funding are seeing increasing use of currency only in soliciting divisions. as long as status is the more mainstream. obviously missing more and organization. obviously cyber in some instances nationwide are seeing more and. i think technology is more accessible and easier the user, is the more common among terrorist groups ., is largely limited. you seem several cases concern is the technology advances because is the day. >> missed mister eisert and
you can use of service to the raise money for charities. i seen someone as campaigns. what use is he of those sites ? >> lovely for us as mainstream science due diligence systems in place and checks and houses so on social media sites mainlineb& as a networks where you see an increase in these other forms of payment systems. >> mister eisert and mister sharon, i assume you want to go after using the traditional disease.
what are the tools or legal parties are either we have that you want tohave, the easier was lost in the . >> ,ask your question about tools the secret service on cyber broadcast station will in partnership with all of the government and that this will be in order to expand is to increase our presence in the international saying. as a transnational crime situation facing the need to increase our presence. we our processes to ensure we are aggregating the not seeing the necessary to process fusion. we need to continue to modernize and appreciate congress in desirable sports
modernization is what we need to continue to grow in this. as it relates to the areas has is as it related to money laundering. is an unlicensedmoney transmitters make us stronger . >> we love to hear more about some of the details. to this transpired again, we know as his words of understanding these organizations. talk to us about what is the interagency, was working on this will you talk to every day his vision between differentactors ? >> is certainly an interagency will be difficulty is end-user so using the often we
information and where that money is going and ultimately use . research average using long as in addition to this not just an individual or an intelligence officer understands the intense capabilities of also have the understanding and knowledge of the technology itself. you look at a group basis in terms of their use of drones, since 2014 and rapidly expanded the boundaries drones for promises and actual attacks on the battlefield disease releases all connecting law enforcement information with the intelligence to get a picture of the. >> mister will. >> i'm so glad you want to use " is that here is losing an innovative approach that a
worker is changing and we have to stay ahead so i appreciate your presently so far in one way of officer trends is the fact that the entity or in some cases need to transfer on multiple cartels using cells using line as it proceeds afrom a car. >> we have, you recent investigation you see ourselves conducting business with professional on and through our investigations these money mongers is specific to cartels, the meat ourselves in investigations are available proceeds and converting them as he.
your forms. >> how easy is that for them to track back into either leverage for what they want to get out of it or the use of is you and you? >> what is in the virtual currency around the world of this. the chokepoints are online and off-line virtual currency so example get into virtual currency that's where we have our undercover platforms and more visual investigations. a few years back many years of mainline skaters formulated as is with a lot of the b& days to unregulated years of your this year where primarily the cartels and there were. >> that. mister sharon, i was, the
secret service will and will miss you and the secret service you theindustry are ? >> dash. all long bring it on the basis five. we are a small organization and databases. small tie size conversions. the secret service our mission and gave the will to the song for us. we've been doing this for 50 years and several days create a base of information related to eastside as many to more complex silently on streets.
all digital when you are just starting out to having work is online since. then our respective. our perspective is a are always is and is financial assistance i also these specialists as was generalists and create some organization. >> a whole and appreciate on this train five representing the university, copy of all, the public partnerships that you all mentioned and how we leverage your steelers and university focuses on this by making memories are doing wonderful things. the students what is and
enters the organization's. >> absolutely stated earlier a sophisticated understanding of the technology itself is often comes from business the . understanding that exists in currency and other digital is really the first step and also learning more about home really of those types of currencies from the classified the intent release of those actors but we understand and is it me know well what he is in you what. essence are in place to prevent malicious use of currency or other technologies so it really is a partnership. is not intelligence always the information in. as long as i you all the
information you this is able trends. is a global actors are seeing .o what technology is >> we need to know the resources that the. need to hear more conferences list the music somewhere. you and get us but that's the purpose of this and the purpose of ourcommittee is to give you those resources if we had tomake sure that . that mister share you'll that . >> in accordance with the guidelines laid out by the chairman and ranking member in tthe third, i will always altering the majority members are of the cells. this recognizes that ellen from new jersey.
>> medicare. so ask all of you, disease are being used. for all the various purposes. . guns. provide support to terrorist organizations. a ransom payments for fueling our monthly base, the racetracks are facing. mister eisert using your testimony that they give actors the ability to engage in with no effort. just so. it is clear, the single. what is the tables on the
canadian money-laundering minimal. >> .i'll set transcends words, transcends industries. is once you get your money into the crypto world through an exchange for unregulated exchanger, is a push of a mom. will face a long money lumbar . now sit on the couch and change it 100 times over. his family was into 100,000 hehands before it went out. once this is. as is challenging but not unbelievable. and it's identifying that is in connected to.
>>. he cheerfully slotted in early statements said is not the wall with digital currency. i could even as this, as he is. for example from technology. where drones can use various purposes including some scene where all your and this done uses of maybe this will ask this? anything on any social event officially uses the some people with something to make money all. >> from all side, only what my beliefs are out there on the web.
only on focuses on theb& ask. getting these areas of opportunity to engage. >> i hear things like privacy . stop us from, and i'm deeply committed to rising. it did not stop spending the use of this shell companies for similar reasons, just to. i hear the phrase that enabled the is currency. somebody says. something in the conversation is for good. i understand what that means in this context. as an abstraction whereas ransom where sex is an abstraction . so i'm not sure here we do
need to expand this conversation to ask that fundamental question whether the challenges you are facing , asking you to deal with in protecting us against all of these social ills are challenges that are necessary is able to pass what is, what is the positive social of this is also creating all this are? i think a history of how the bills modern economies in the united states and around the world we started three or 400 years ago with multiple currencies that were unrelated nonvisible governments. modern bills they decided where is that was issued. pforzheim is enough i think it more so.
i want to come back to the passage of the city 11 back. >> is this is a. >> chairman. director ngsharon you said in your testimony for currency and other assets he the inverted jesus is a us dollar and theeuro . the exchanges serve all on grass and rs through the use of license holders the anti-money on note. . o >>. was meant to encapsulate ecosystem of what we were referred to as digital money. you see these conversations serves related to for our his
education. virtual currency digital currency. we use the term digital line and all forms and is is. the definition of technology use to create and apply legal use. as business to decide in more detail how to use. and my coffee has on letter to didn't know my. is used laterally for legal and illicit means and how is all correct a digital platform. the exchangers that were are integral that. these are the ways in which we as long as forces on our needs to engage or
identification and information related to online class and switching gears and , back in april that was an analysis the secret service was a partner is the attorney general's office various law agencies in housing in mississippi on task force. my question is twofold. one, and importance of these task force, alex started as a force will require what you are trying to do with the secret service you all on his standing all the agents will be treated as a national of your organization institute which is located at over out how a vision of institute and the important role that organization serves. >> as either task force is our old network cast for staff by our special agency
personnel and our professional workforce of subject matter experts from our network intrusion financial analysts. these are our customers to local communities, to your constituents that bring the information back to our old investigation center able service approach. as you said a lot of what we do on the local level is through the national computer organization institute. as where is the only federal facility to train dstate, local title officers and prosecutors was officers and on entities are really the first responders. the line search capacity in this fight is the fire on. we are grateful for the support of congress . the train over 16,000 of those law-enforcement officials. but as your aware is due to
substitute and be with appreciate support, but to expand that same training to our foreign partners. so we can have this global capacity. >> as it relates to the national computer forensic institute do you feel that it serves as a key component in our fight against cybercrime. >> i cannot agree with you more wholeheartedly on the question . if the first state and local officers meeting first line of defense, a versatile constituents will call and with their support as an is vicious in the secret service shoulder to shoulder with us this is how he will be adversary you are going to get more competent, having these types of fraud seems. >> as i understand director sharon you believe congress
will not only reauthorize this program we will sleep on what is going on the national computer organization institute , is that correct ? >> yes, i think that's it. >> you. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from california. >> i think the chairwoman for holding this criticalhearing . as the dashboard is looking for america's business as it relates to ransom where attacks, in many ways this feels like a pre-september 11 environments for businesses in that you have all the signs there that we are going to continue to face the facts . possibly one that could shut down critical infrastructure. you have these facts being launched from foreign countries are not our allies. it's unclear whether they are state-sponsored they are
certainly state able " is looking the way cooperating with us or interval in branding and stopping actors. so i wanted to in a bay area business leader, john chambers wheaties to the ceo transcend. these somewhere in this year is called is mold medium-size business$75 each . the ceo of fire there's an organization is to wear a digital while i certainly is over and see blocking policies to ensure they are not entered into or enabling these attacks. i have first is a ckcurrency is entering your office's ability and dhs to respond to
desire? >> thank you for blessing. did it your voice is virtual currency where the intervals are alreadytaking care of those actors .their online businesses that's usually where is this. as for the fight against network intrusion, hsi as a cybercrime sensor supports a crime as well as in the private sector having network intrusion program. what does is we have a trained special agents are with this software tools at the scanner and all is the most in a formal roadways by
our sister agency. we files will always reach out to those organizations say you have a insider is now and we will proactively investigations . >> thank you mister eisert. all almost as when a business reports to you that they have been? and how does that into what we should have mandatory reporting is in the critical infrastructure this line in our information you yield where? >> more we have? . the increase in financial of the work is interval money long, all is on, the more bits of information that they are networks information.
>> there is a lot we can do in terms of hygiene is particularly with the united states but on the sidewalk. make sure that businesses are working with dhs euro concern on some vendors is we want a. you dhs. who knows what we got a on during our and we want them thinking and. wheel offense is the understanding and ideally happy to shut down. what are you doing to try to earn the trust of businesses are in this. >> we our brothers and sisters in the fbi. we do a lot of which at
operation or zone is not a lot of private industry and know who we are and how we. with unscalable fertility. it's the agencies was in the we continue to work. >> i share your. >> is there is the latest state in the unionmichigan . >> and you are witnesses for mine birthday sharing more of your knowledge and experience in on this issue. as you moron. as a member of the space. they always want to make sure our is focusing as possible so that in the most effective online terrorism. read some of the homeland security so i will allow
letter feels to answer this question do so. but i want to understand what's on the federal is engaged encounter terrorism financing is interviewed towards his and provide more on which specific agencies are responsible case. what: this agency also engage with the water resources online community in these efforts. >> conceptual the first. we will use to some extent and responsibilities we and law enforcement duties as a team sport will work tomorrow and is essential we have a partnership and operation due to the complexities and scope and scale of our adversaries.
we have institutional information sharing mechanisms to ensure you are being wasteful in any way being good stewards of the american taxpayer dollars. more on our role is focused on protecting the financial system and that the crimes are us long related to those because of those information sharing is with my colleagues us all our state will. you share information and case formation as each situation comes up. >> it, is terrorism task force withyou . my colleagues said laws he
raises a. track largest federal injury or a joint terrorism task force sees as, almost 50 percent of the task force all these parties at cyrus is disabled so for instance the other car , the ball access to trade the agencies reading their specific skill set. >> on and on the intelligence perspective i necessary for me community and local law officers is access to data, making a way we can use policy as it is particularly the currency is the use of
digital are a specific understanding taof expertise or technology use in the home data what we should be. so it's really access and inspiration often times we will winformation the intelligence gas information as a local understand what those movies are. >> responses to figures from the top down our here on access information sharing site on the commission side does. resources and capabilities as long as concerns that there may be your gas working across? >> visiting and were as follows satisfied regulations
at the will. virtual currency and how customers are not traditional industries. >> with that care is. >> a will we go to a year that share is this the gentleman from new jersey. >> jared is important for the hearsay will work your colleagues to do, the use of currency. i'm concerned those actors, one with as long as you use of the website promises of our boys and was cost is.
i will start with you udthis trip. i'll currently to pursue the use of between these two factors. it easier to see access to foreign terrorist organizations of my office use? >> i would say that it's complex. both were because of the many other digital currencies on the transaction often don't know the transaction is receiving what people purpose of that resource is if you track a as it relates to only resulting in our sometimes facilitation operation. as i am a specialist angle you are seeing an increase in
calls for and patients using currency but you have a time trying to find understanding of resource is being transferred into operation. will. >> is easier to track artists go more focus? >> i would first want always. >> i just out to mister eisert on one or mister sharon. i'm not sure who's. >> is a shopping. >> digital is easier to a digital actual is related to his use and each case on the locking. >> is that's okay, the
barriers and fiction will make it easier to keep up with all the assets and what do we should be. >> for us to be resourcing the process. we need to increase our workforce not only capabilities. on law enforcement side are more we have a great team of computer science scientists, falsely these two and watching houses facing but we need to keep pace with you and grow into the international locations. a strong presence because this is a transnational column. media our processes to modernize and long is trading
movement relates these currencies also needs a lot of our leaders are task tforces throughout the globe. >> mister eisert with the describable hsi agent the seizure of millions of dollars currency on terrorists including isis if your wife? >> is using i say, there's a lot information that we had. those initial leads focus on is very similar. police came from the intelligence committee as well as some from watchdog organizations. buying the analysis intent of the organizations. we each of those organizations with multiple undercover summers engaged in conversation what the purpose of the money was which was we
started to identify y the wall and four and throughout the investigation unit exchange as each method change the person that we have do, running xp and the $10 in both cases. >> i appreciate that and i said. >> you'll. >> we will. so questions. so two questions. one is on this idea that our companies, our organizations and you will are not mandated reporters when it comes to tax at the list so for instance a big box for the tax and house on all our personal data. and then a visually through currency land not that two
individuals information stolen. law is a pc is also is waited six months, and your etc. to come forward and say something about this. tony olson what that does to your ability to actually go after these hours. usually companies should be mandated, companies organizations the man reporters when the victim or mister sharon. >> is an extremely important question. we support all instances to law regardless of agency or law-enforcement agency is reported to be wanted versus wall this apparatus creates
an intrusion or some type of systems. you investigate mission as part of the present process. we will work organizations have their security in a collaborative sense. will be sentenced to fight terrorism is. in's will future attacks not only organization perhaps organizations that they have similar vulnerabilities. >> i have to be a data, the information, on the front lines of the site are more interesting he constantly are we doing something this r. as. these attacks? on the line was tax and ransoms. when the money through the fbi acting to grab some of
that money. the first time we were closing in on the way. there's lots of things you can talk. i'm not as are in the my district is asking outsiders. and as it is something being constantly attacked. >> it starts as a reference with the national computer eisert institute. the train 50,000 eight will officers the first responders these events. it starts with contacting them. there are multiple tools within our organizations and partners in order to interdict that stopping real-time some of these positions that are not only the network itself in terms of on these is. we our whole response interactions is stop wire
transfers within a certain amount of time b. >> five. >> it is fine, since you is going as actors it says has been response program. for years the present assessment notified within 72 hour are successful on the b and you'll do interdict one of the $5 million going to our own picture which refers to where five is any investigation and find the funds. >> so that whole next to
boston's that you all actually use some real things i system is not required organizations to notify a area they were. i appreciate all you can more talk and discuss it you all on what you're doing is more than the average is and those that want government is eeprotecting them so i yield to the gentleman from texas mister team. >> discussing attribution seems to be one of things to get after. so whether it's mandatory partnership. people because they know the assets they have essentially lost the returns, and
hopefully that will drive the mission to reportspecialty education is out there . ewe have forums understand your agencies offer them something to this type of activity from this in on the national computer forensics institute able to the secret service investigations and what more you encompass or use care. >> question. we are very grateful for this n support to this regarding mc fonts. it involves zero program what the number of and they will officers, prosecutors trading . the training 3000 year. projected goals is that a limited time not only authorization in spending into the sunset paper resourcing that we have with
the city. we think we all are the answer is international areas is in a smaller goal on workers around the world in order this. >> you will succumb bonus. closely linked terrorist organizations and ran somewhere attacks that is not new but some of them are the policies especially the ones that enforce the supply. how closely and what are the projected or estimated as we see it will feature. >> today seem really any connections we ran somewhere attacks between resources is allóis that we've seen them in long-range terrorist groups and meet all the.
first is often. these procedures for malicious act is the official , as terrorists use currency digital currency becomes more certainly expect to see them using ran somewhere on their operations. in addition to increasingly seeing her calls offer somewhere service so individual in my service on the often don't know who the actor is as paying for that service so there are many opportunities for terrorists to ran. >> probably is the ccf will be there i was in a phone calls our position on this incredibly strong. responses levy on patterns,
organizations, terrorist organizations malign as they were nonstate is not limited to 16. as a across-the-board our response is that the song is in a will continue to take that i'm back. >> share is the gentleman from new jersey mister. >> so i still not convinced this market should exist unless regulation. for a moment. the treasury department recently announced that it would be firing crypto currency transactions finally dollars to the reported. is that correct? >> i believe is close. >> does require action from us. is this something.
>> i have to do. >> on possible with that help us and challenge that carolyn slumped in revert to in the sense that presumably a happy medium ransom payment of over $10,000 then have to report to theirs ? >> is a a depending on the regulations. we want the mainstream institutions right now it wasn't in existence the environment. isn't all. it matter of personal cns. >> presumably be helpful to you all. >> and most presumably,) thousand dollars. in the scheme of things probably capture significant
share if not all that's where . >> other ideas, should the sec be given the authority to regulate crypto currency exchanges? is that something that the administration is proposing. >> a challenge with regulation that we see the digital line is used in sony these, the technology is used in an essentially how it is what, you know one agency for the oversight. some body, sometimes is a threat to. so is certainly important holly has identified in money-laundering laws, the financing terrorism, you all is helping there will be related to this. what enforcement
perspectives, we are is great in nature and are willing to grow authorities are investigating and capabilities close to. their concern was also referenced the jewel nature of overreaction as he was for a visit using criminal actors into tthe methods and corners of the internet would make it more difficult. >> the best value for its inviting the seesaw.t if the answer is the rate or regulation. i presume that you agree that whatever rules we, they should be broadly across the 50 states but also t internationally . i wonder if you know any examples outside the united
>> i want to follow up on the early line of questioning that i had. i think you mentioned that one of the, you know, the gaps that you identify when it comes to specific and currency problem sets, and we have been talking about that. i think many who are watching or listening here today are familiar with bitcoin. they have at least heard of it if not more broadly aware of crypto, but bitcoin, though it is the most well known and one of the largest by market capital -- or the largest by market capitalization is one of i think over 5,000 different crypto currencies, and so you have not only, you know, some others that people may have heard like light coin but also many many coins and proposed stable coins as well.
in your report -- or your testimony, you also said that newer and less popular crypto currencies are attractive to malicious actors because of their security features. how well resourced do you feel to deal with the lesser known cryptos, not just those who may be in the top, you know, five or ten of market cap, but even the potential for the exploitation of some of these mini or micro cap crypto currencies? >> the privacy coins create a challenge because of the hidden block chain, obscured block chain. a lot of our data analytics aren't as thorough as it is with the open block chain. and sometimes not thorough enough for us to bring it to a courtroom to do something. luckily for us, as you mentioned, the market cap and the total volume of coin, the usability is not there. if you are looking at with maybe
a market cap right now of 40 to 50 million, if you look at 3 million in that, using 10% of the market. the user ability is not there yet. that's the scary part. the good thing is a lot of u.s. exchanges will not accept manero because of its hidden block chain. it won't meet their policies. >> and i want to follow up on that point because, you know, we -- you know, when terrorists were aware that there was -- that e-mail traffic might be monitored, i mean, the way you get around that is you don't have that go-through traffic; right? you have a draft, and then two parties both have access. what about a scenario where it is a super micro mini cap, where it is not usable as a currency, but if a company were to invest, you know, 10 million dollars into it, and prior to that investment, a terrorist or ransom ware entity, you know, buys up the entirety of it, it's essentially functioning as a mechanism to pass that through
because once the money is in there, they can just sell whatever the gains are, and then the, you know, all the losses are borne by the entity that have purchased that company paying that ransom. that's a scenario to the reference of the proposed treasury department regulations, it would not be -- it would not qualify, because it isn't a transfer. it is merely a purchase that's held, but that asset, essentially like a balloon deflating loses all value and all is captured on the outside. is that a scenario you could foresee happening? >> i'm trying to track most of it. some of the regulations being proposed, and again, i would prefer to yield to treasury on something like that, is if an unhosted wallet has an exchange with a regulated wallet, that would be a reporting mechanism. so that would capture some of that. as for a privacy coin that an organization decides to use and pump a lot of money in, that's
great, but they are still going to have the problem of off ramping it. that's where the money laundering policies take effect and capture. >> anything to add? >> you know, just that we have seen terrorist groups use privacy coins, including manero. it is certainly something that we're seeing, and i would also note that, you know, thousands of crypto currencies, the advancements are daily, so the increased privacy, the increase anonymity of these occurs with the creation of every new bitcoin. it's certainly a challenge, i think, first to understand what they are using and then to have greater insight into how they are actually using the currency. >> i appreciate the additional ability to probe a little bit deeper as clearly that, you know, bitcoin presents its own challenges, but in the broad, you know, eco sphere of various crypto currencies, especially when getting on to the small end, the opportunities of
exploitation are nearly limitless. my chair has expired. i yield back. >> with that i thank the witnesses for their testimony and the members for their questions. the members of the subcommittee may have additional questions for the witnesses. you ask that you respond expeditiously in writing to those questions. the chair reminds members of the subcommittee record will remain open for 10 business days. without objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned. [inaudible conversation]
>> the senate taking a break here to allow lawmakers to attend their weekly party caucus lunches. the senate just approved todd kim to be assistant attorney general for the environment and natural resources. mr. kim is the first asian american to hold that job. after their meetings, senators will reconvene for a group photo before gavelling back into session. more live senate coverage when lawmakers return here on c-span 2. sunday c-span series january 6th views from the house continues. three more members of congress share stories of what they saw, heard, and experienced that day, including a california democrat who served as a teller for the
electoral vote count on that day. >> the capitol officer came and said it was necessary to evacuate and that we should take the -- you know, there are hoods under the seat of each seat in the chamber, take them out and be prepared to put them on, so everybody did. i think when you pull the little red tag, it activates, and so there was people weren't wearing them. there had been tear gas released in the chamber -- in the [inaudible], which is why we were advised we might need to wear them. there was a tremendous kind of whirring noise from all these hoods. it was the background of the moment. and of course the pounding and
the noise from the mob had become much louder. at some point, someone up in the chambers, in the gallery, a member was yelling at the republicans to call trump and have trump call off his mob, and there was some little yelling back and forth among members in the gallery. >> call trump [inaudible]! this week, you will also hear from republican rodney davis of illinois and pennsylvania democrat madeline dean. january 6th, views from the house, sunday at 10:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span.org, or listen on the c-span radio app.
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