tv HUD Secretary Testifies on COVID-19 Housing Security CSPAN July 20, 2021 8:06pm-11:26pm EDT
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members able to ask questions at today's hearing will be given priority in our next hearing with the secretary. pursuant to house rules, the committee will continue to provide accommodations for the members who request to participate in hearings virtually but i am happy to have the vast majority of our members and when is participating in person here today. as a reminder, those not fully vaccinated continue to wear a mask in the hearing room and practice social distancing but i would also like to encourage our members to continue wearing masks if they feel more comfortable doing so. members, we have a little bit of a problem with our timing apparatus this morning. we can see the timing here when you're five minutes are up. our witness can for five minutes and of course it will be monitored by our friends on the opposite side of the aisle so we
will sure we are all with the timing. let me just say that i'm going to be strict with the timing. if you take all of your five minutes to ask questions and then expect the secretary to answer another two or three minutes, that will happen today. after five minutes, you will be gaveled so thank you. this hearing is entitled going back a better, more equitable housing infrastructure for america. oversight of the department of housing and urban development. i now recognize myself for four minutes to give an opening statement. first of all, happy good morning secretary. i am delighted to have you with us today. [cheering and applauding] discussed the work the biden administration is doing to build
a more, fair, equitable and successful housing infrastructure in this country. i want to begin by applauding you and the biden administration for treating her housing prices with the urgency seriousness it deserves. the trump administration made it crystal clear that it didn't appreciate appreciate the magnitude of our nations housing crisis by repeatedly proposing deep budget cuts to hud programs and taking action to undermine our fair housing laws, the trumpet penetration showed a complete disregard for low and moderate income families, people of color, lgbtq plus community and immigrant. only because of democrat congress that put budget was not decimated during tom's presidency because election matters, president biden and hud have not began to reverse trump anti- here fair housing rules. democrats on the committee remained laser focus on ensuring eligible families receive the
housing assistance available to them through the cares act, december relief package from american rescue plan and other coronavirus relief legislation so we must remember we are not just building back our economy from the pandemic at donald trump's disastrous housing policies, we are putting back and that is my focus for today's hearing. going back better and more equitably his understanding that housing is infrastructure. for the first time in a generation, we have real opportunity to take structural problems in our housing system and reverse decades low from community's and communities of color. last week i and several members of the committee introduced a legislative package, three fails to do just that. one is first, the housing infrastructure act, second is in the homelessness act and the
third is they're down payment to equity act that would help access to address the racial cap home ownership gap by providing 100 billing down payment and other financial systems for first generation homebuyers. we must make housing top priority. these generational investments will increase ownership, provide a permanent housing safety structure and and homelessness in this country once and for all secretary, i know you are the right person to take advantage of this moment. thank you so much for your leadership on this absolutely critical issue and i look forward to your testimony today and i now recognize the ranking member of the committee, the gentleman from north carolina, mr. mchenry for four minutes. >> thanks for holding today's hearing. welcome, nice to see you and your first appearance before congress on that side of the
table. it's a different perspective but i must begin today by asking, where is treasury secretary yelling parts i sent the chair a letter last week and for her to join this but it looks like the couldn't make it happen. maybe secretary can shed some light on the most pressing issue on housing at the moment for the federal government and that is in regards to the rental assistance program. i know millions of renters across the country and across the income spectrum would like some answers. we are on effect on price divided a ministrations fiction moratorium and july 31st, the cdc already set no more extension so what are some people supposed to do? what is the plan parks last december congress provide $25 billion in emergency rental assistance. democrats added another $21 billion is here for the exact
same purpose, $46 billion. this might not sound like a lot of money considering for the democrats are talking about muslim is free to have $20 on the parker progressive agenda for the next budget but i assure you americans have to decide next month for the month food for the family are payback right. the money for specifically intended to retire both old rent debt and the threat of eviction for millions who fell behind during the pandemic so where is that money and who is it helping? the silage is deafening. washington post reported over the weekend that no more than $1 billion has made it out the door. i will remind my colleagues again we've allocated $46 billion to help with this rental problem.
republicans on the committee. reporter: a solution from a printer production assistant bill and mismanagement of the emergency rental assistance get the money out. last week i called for the committee to consider the but the care has not scheduled it for anything like it. so what about this hearing? we are days away from a preventable problem and instead of figuring out how to keep families in their homes from your.to get an update from hud on all the other stuff they are working on. this is government at its worst. it's clear democrat would rather talk about anything but rental assistance program and resolving old rental debt not to mention level of mismanagement and lack of transparency i can only imagine waste, fraud and abuse of taxpayer dollars we will have to address lucky for us, we have
no information so hear no evil, see note below, i guess is the approach. fortunately for this hearing, hud has a statutory obligation with respect to transparency. the original emergency rental assistance law requires the treasury department, in consultation with the secretary of housing and urban development who we have before us today is to provide public reports on the use of the emergency rental assistance program so while i would prefer to ask these questions to secretary ellen because they are supposed to be in the driver seat of the treasury, madam secretary mild directed to you. in my question here regarding the mismanagement of program%
has gone 100% has been on where is treasury secretary i'll ask again i know recognize mr. one where you housing session for moving in that direction and i would like to thank mr. secretary business will have our secretary is listening, taking all action and her commitment to improve the quality of life for
hard-working americans unquestionable. we know we do not need another, i hope there's no legislation designed study housing. we do not need another news article to tell us the wealthiest nation on the earth has street filled with homeless folks we do not need another report to explain the american dream of home ownership. >> on or recognize the gentleman from arkansas, mr. hill for one minute. >> thank you, i appreciate our friend and former colleague, secretary fudge for being here today. i have a comment about the noticeable lack of secretary yelling. he made himself over the four here's an office and particularly for this committee during the pandemic and i hope we can expect that from the pleasant ministration. to ensure accountability for the
trillions of dollars spent over the last year. alarmingly, only 11% of $9 billion provided to hud of the cares act has been sent to date and none of the american rescue plan money has been used to help an actual household yet. even more concerning is the gross mismanagement of eviction rental assistance program. in arkansas, the $200 million allocated by congress in december, 1.4 million. seven basis. i look forward to discussing this during my questions and i yield back. >> thank you very much. i want to welcome today's english witness and former colleague of ours, the honorable marcia fudge with secretary of the u.s. department of housing and urban development. this is secretary fighters first
time appearing before the committee and current capacity and we welcome her testimony today. without objection, the written statement will be made part of the record. you will have five minutes to summarize the testimony. you should be able to see a timer on the table in front of you that will indicate how much time you have left and i would ask you to be mindful of the timer and when the red light appears quickly, wrap up your testimony so we can be respectful of the committee members time. secretary fudge, you are not recognized for five minutes to present your oral testimony. >> thank you so much. morning distinguished members of the committee many of my friends miss you, good to see you. thank you for this opportunity to discuss transformational work of the biden harris ministration proposing for housing opportunity in america and a president biden is committed in his head and heart to help more
people find a stable and affordable dignified place to call home. he's made that commitment clear. the president opposing a budget for 2022 requesting $60.7 billion for hud. this represents an increase of $9 billion or 15% from our funding from the previous. the american people need every dollar in this budget. today it's harder to find an affordable home in america that at any time since the 2008 financial crisis high cost of housing for millions of families are kept up every night. they wonder if they can afford to keep a roof over their head and still managed to keep their lights on to pay for their prescription and put food on their tables. the budget takes bold action to address our affordable housing crisis and took dramatically strengthening our for the most vulnerable among us.
the budget request $3.5 billion to provide housing and support of services for americans experiencing homelessness including people and survivors of domestic violence. it contains $30.4 billion for hud housing. if enacted, it would deliver life-changing assistance to an additional 200,000 households. the president understand investing housing represents a major solution for advancing equity on behalf of underserved americans. the president's budget request 723 billing dollars to create affordable housing spark economic development on tribal land that contained $3.8 billion including 205 million in targeted funding for historically underserved areas in cities, small towns and rural communities. nearly half of our public housing is more than 50 years old. many properties face significant
popular, not just a safety issue but an issue of racial justice, is america's of color represent 70% of people living in a homeless housing. the presence budget provides $3.2 billion in canceled funds to help restore public housing and improve the quality of life for the residents we serve. we are people of color are especially vulnerable because of climate change and extreme weather. we are three times as likely to live in areas with infra structure for flooding. too often we find ourselves in the path of natural disaster and denied resources we need to rebuild our home and community. president biden provides $800 million for climate resilient in public housing on tribal land and across hud supported communities. the president's 2022 budget is one part of his commitment to make a generational investment into america's housing.
to the support contained in the budget, the president called for sweeping new housing investment, build back america agenda. these investments would help build or restore more than 2 million affordable homes. the bill back but agenda help more families of this realized the dream of homeownership and expand our supply of affordable housing and help revitalize public housing. our nation was moved to enact investment in the presence budget and his bill back better agenda. during the covered crisis, we all came to appreciate how important it is to have safe stable place to call home. today thanks to the leadership of president biden, our country is making great strides in rebuilding from the pandemic. our economy is surging, more americans continue to get vaccinated, life is beginning to feel closer to normal yet
america cannot return to the status quo of yesterday prior to the pandemic. we must not return to an america by pumping homes and buildings, and america with comfortable housing. we must build back better together. look forward to partnering with this committee to help make housing for all the audit in our nation and in short hud acts as a responsible story for the funding interesting for us. with that, i am happy to answer any questions i recognize myself now for five minutes for questions. i drink the committee three decades ago and i've been consistently focused on homelessness. not just managing it but ending the national embarrassment for one of the richest nations in the world. as you know, homelessness is also a racial justice issue. representing less than 30% of the total population, black,
indigenous and latin x individuals make up well over two thirds of people expanding homelessness in america. once again, homelessness, they are also far less likely than their white counterparts to be able to access the health and mental health services they need to obtain maintain housing. last week a team at the urban institute led by cunningham previously testified before the committee on my ending homelessness act. conducting a study on the effectiveness on permanent supportive housing interrupting the cycle of chronic homelessness. in a randomized trial, participants in a supportive housing initiative reduced their risk in emergency visits by 40%, relative to the comparison group
and effectively address health needs including such as with doctor's office visits prescriptions so you and i have talked about this endlessly all during the times we served here and i know how you feel about homelessness and i know we had a conversation more than once about supporting services and of course we know what supportive services we are able to get people be more independent if we can help them get to the doctor and help them make sure they take prescriptions and all of that so i think it is important for us to talk about supportive services and what that means as we deal with this homelessness issue because as we talk about additional portable yield and rental assistance and all that, we note to the degree that we are able to assist people take
hold of their daily lives not only with taking care of doctors appointment and all that but being able to get up everyday to everything from exercise, to read and go to the local library or what have you, this would go a long way helping them become independent so how do you feel about supportive services and what that could mean in terms of the way we look at homelessness? >> think of the question, if we don't do supportive services, what we do is set up people to fail. once we get people off the street and you know as well as i do that any not in america more than 580,000 people in this country, the greatest nation in the world, until we provide those services whether health services, educational services, access to work and
transportation and a myriad of other things, we have not done much because we have not given them the tools and ability to live on their own successfully. >> i know we agree on that issue. about this rental assistance the ranking member talked about, we passed a heroes act in june and again in october and we passed standalone version of the emergency rental assistance in july. it wasn't until december for applicant came to the table to help us pass emergency realistic so it's interesting that republicans are complaining about this. we would have been much further along in the implementation of her publicans not drag their feet and acknowledging the problem from the start. they can't be worried about this than i am that is my issue. that is the issue i put the most time on cares money into the
american relief plan so we know if we have a problem all over this country. i know secretary ellen and you and everybody is concerned about that. we are doing everything we can to get the state to do what they should putting together the programs they need to do to get rental assistance and i want to say to turn my time over now. >> judgment from north carolina, ranking member of the committee is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you for talking about the same thing will care about, we allocated 46 doing dollars we had rental assistance, emergency rental assistance program was supported by both parties when the law finally got past and when secretary ellen was here in march she pledged she would come back and before the committee to explain what was going on so according to the document from
treasury, less than 4% of the money provided by this reached these households. can you tell us how much $46 billion rental assistance ended up in the hands of rebels or mentors at this time? >> certainly i cannot speak for her but i will give you the facts as i know them, i'd be happy to. but i do know is the treasury has obligated one 100% of the resources for emergency rental, it's in the hands of state and local communities and some continuing to appear. the resources are out, it's not the matter of the fact that the treasury didn't get it out, one 100%. what we are doing now -- >> how many are in the hands of renters? >> i have no idea. >> the washington post story correct just over a billion dollars, or you familiar with the story i read? >> i have not read it so i don't know. >> but you are saying that funds are allocated but you're not sure if it's in the hands of
anyone's. >> i know it's not in the hands of some people, i don't know the number. >> is that from government or -- not trying to play pop quiz on you but you are under law, statutorily consulted by the treasury secretary for this program and since she's not appearing in this is a very pressing issue, i think we have a right to know why only 4% has gone in the hands of eligible households, is not a correct number. >> as i said, i don't know if it is or not. >> so we don't know if it $1 billion, less, more of the $46 billion? >> it does not. >> statutorily, we will follow up with you on the comments because statutorily, you are required to publish the data. >> in consultation with treasury. >> but hud is the one to republish the report under era
section 501g public law 116 -- 260 which created original program, are you familiar with this? reporting requirements, treasury secretary reference developer shall provide public report most frequently with use of funds made available under this act so the last report says only 4% has gone in the hands of renters, do you dispute that? >> i don't know so no, i do not dispute that. >> are you familiar that they published? >> yes. >> assess less than 4% has gone in the hands of renters. >> the numbers change every day, sir. >> but you have no idea what the numbers are at this moment? >> i do not. >> given statutory obligation, can you tell us what action hud
is taking to make sure we get help in the hands of these renters faster? what are you doing to make that faster with secretary ellen? >> where providing technical assistance. >> what technical assistance are you providing to get the door faster? is us an urgent issue for your department? >> it is. >> what you doing to make it faster? >> we are talking to the communities, people with the least capacity to use resources so we are helping small and rural communities, small and rural communities to get resources from their state and county and other local government because most of them do not have the capacity, we get the money but not people. we don't get them -- >> $800 million on overhead for this, to distribute just over a billion dollars. >> sent to the rural communities.
>> what spent by the administration is almost the same amount overhead has gone in the hands of renters, fast how deeply flawed the program is this is something that requires, i think your attention secretary yellen, it's an absolute, complete mismanagement at this time when you only have less than 4% of the money in the hands of renters, it's an important program. >> if i may, we did a mistake. treasury publishes the report, not hud. we consulted. >> judgment time has expired the program overseen by the treasury when she's before us and these -- >> i've raised the question. >> the chairman has since recognized for five minutes. >> secretary fudge. honored to have you here, broke to say the words sec. fudge and i can think of -- it's so
appropriate that you are a sole witness for this hearing and i can think of no better use of the committees time thing to hear directly and solely from you at this hearing. the first question is something i would like you to respond for the record, our colleague has a naomi safe parking act and i want to think the chairwoman for noticing that bill for this hearing that focuses on those sleeping in their cars. vehicular homeless and i hope you would respond for the record as to whether we can do more to help people who are sleeping in their cars. and happens especially in southern california particularly you and your staff could look at the naomi schwartz safe parking program act. i would like to focus on section
eight which is so important to socal. people get the section eight voucher but they can't find the landlord in my district who will accept it. senators coons and kramer have a built for an affordable housing act but i hear the story all the time, people end up moving 30 miles away from my district has they can't find a landlord and i don't represent that wealthy of the district so do you think we can and should do more to incentivize landlord participation in the section eight program? >> absolutely. let me just say if i may that the $46 billion is needed. there's never been anyone can say people who are homeless and
at risk of expressing homelessness don't need the money. if there is a problem on the federal side, that is not the problem. resources are needed every day to get people in the street. california, most people can't afford to live in california anymore so the homelessness problem is so great that because even if we can find a landlord willing to rent to someone getting a section eight doctor, they can get so much more money from someone else so there is such a small supply for such a great demand. >> thank you. members of the committee know i've been concerned with these case lung because first you have a first mortgage on your home, the case lung comes in effect, a hood of the first mortgage that is a threat to federal programs like fha that guaranty first mortgages but i am also concerned because as national
consumer law center says these products are frequently expensive lungs often pushed by oppressive contractors for projects which provide questionable savings and pose a serious risk of predatory lending and that's why i think the chairwoman for noticing for the hearing my built the improving federal oversight financing act to think the national consumer law center for endorsing that bill. madam secretary, would you agree we need to take more steps to protect consumers into federal mortgage guaranty and assistance program when it comes to these predatory caissons? >> i don't agree to it being predatory but some -- >> there are some not predatory and some are legitimate but they are above.
>> i absolutely agree need to have more conversation. affordable financing. >> thank you and i yield back. >> thank you, the gentleman from missouri, missus wegner is not recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chairwoman and welcome, our public now madam secretary fudge. i think you're going to hear this from all of us because we are deeply disappointed and frustrated treasury secretary yellen is not testifying today and i know you're going to take a number of questions from us based on joint efforts between hud and treasury. the treasury department has failed to properly probably administer more than $46 billion in rental assistance to struggling families and frankly,
the tax payers in missouri second congressional district deserve more accountability and transparency than what we are seeing from the biden administration. congress appropriated the money for families facing the threat of evictions less than 4% as we hear over and over again, rental assistance fund reached eligible households. it is unacceptable that secretary yellen is not appearing before the committee when time is so urgent that two weeks before expiration. she should be here today to answer for the mismanagement of the emergency rental assistance program, $46 billion and less than 4% reaching those who need it. sec. fudge, outside of treasuries emergency rental assistance program, hud received tens of billions in community development block grant and
assistance grants from the cares act, two different programs, almost eight years -- almost a year end a half ago and the vast majority of which remains on spent. only 12.3% of the 5 billion in the cares funds have yet been spent while only 9.4% of homeless assistance act has been spent. what is this money in your jurisdiction, why are these funds delayed from reaching those who need it the most? >> thank you for that question, is a great one. hud is obligated which means we have given to grantees or the 93% of all cares money. part of the problem with the cares money has communities receive cares money and then collect money, rescue money, for they determined is the cares money is the money needed more planning and gave them a longer period of time to spend so what
they have basically said is what spent the emergency money right away, here is money, who want to take the time to actually plan so they won't accused them of waste, fraud and abuse which we do often when people harshly and hastily spend federal resources but they are in the manic phase, almost four years left so those are the dollars they are using but they do have it but the need is so great right now let me get to my second question which i think is a reflection of what we see with different rental assistance program, the ability and ability of certain jurisdictions to build to, three, four different emergency rental assistance program keep track of all the money so many competing roles and timelines and front has to do with the roles out and they are not seen
properly administered by federal agencies and oversaw by agencies at both head and treasury so there is competing roles and timeline given limited experience and the expertise of certain localities, wouldn't it be easier to run if there was only one consolidated program with one row set? >> i don't know that it would be easier, it depends on what the rest would be but i would certainly suggest to you most communities are accustomed to dealing with hud get most technical assistance within the they sent the money through treasure, communities are accustomed to dealing with hud. >> , secretary, a lot hud also but not much cash our resources are out this way. >> but they are not spent at the local level, that will set oversight, that accountability comes back up through your
agency so i'm not sure if my time is expiring -- i would just say, anything can do to try to streamline this progress to get the money both renters and the landlords suffering right now is what needs to be done, not four years from now but right now so i will go back. >> and i would agree with you. >> a second with his question about yelling as opposed to sec. fudge and hud. i did not invite her to intrude on the first time secretary would appear before us and i don't intend to treat women that way so yelling is not here, she will be here orderly, time is in fact it. >> i look forward to that, thank you. >> the gentleman from new york, the chair of the house committee on foreign affairs not
recognized for five minutes. >> product secretary, i am delighted to see you even more delighted for the job you are already doing hud. you've made increasing production, access to affordable housing and priority for hud budget and you have identified a shortage of affordable housing as a barrier to the home purchasing process and as you know, private investment has focused much on real estate because of high yields. what i'm concerned about is the private investors can outcompete potential first time home buyers. some fha, slowing down the process of traditional homebuyers as well as making the loan process expensive so my question is, can you consider or look at fha loan process to put first-time homebuyers in a better position to compete the
purchasing process? >> absolutely and we are doing that now by looking at a number of things. one, hud historically has not given a lot of small dollar amount, people need to rehabilitate their homes and we are changing that. hud has looked at credit in a way we think has been unfair to persons of color or low income modern homebuyers because we waited student debt for others so we have created an environment which people primarily who carry student debt, black and brown and poor people self moderate income people so we have decided to wait that differently to allow people to be creditworthy at this stage and we have injunction with our chair looked up down payment assistance so we are doing a lot of things requesting and i am happy about that up. >> i wanted to bring up another one because it's important homeowners relate information and closing the wealth gap which
is a priority of mine and this committee and as you correctly said, helping individuals build up equity home ownership and again, because of the price of home skyrocketing, student borrowers, especially those of color, homeownership is unattainable and that's why i am so happy you have already taken on how you inoculate student loan debt in its underwriting process to better reflect what student borrowers pay monthly which is not often the sticker price which gives them the opportunity to become homeowners build equity in their homes and thereby closing the wealth gap so that us tremendously important. can you explain a little more implement the policy and forecast of how impactful the change will be for student
borrowers, especially those of colors? >> i could give a quick example prior to our change, a person that makes about $50000 a year end has about $75000 worth of student debt could not be approved for house that caused $225,000. the other thing that's important is the fact that we make the assumption that if you have student debt and some were not creditworthy, my mother would have paid every time she had to make sure i had a good education so it is not a matter of not being able to pay, we know most people who can afford an apartment can afford a home. the good thing is that hud secures more than 50% of all first time home buyer mortgages and something that comes within so we can make a difference. >> you all make a difference.
i don't know how much time i have left. >> one minute. [laughter] i'll go until they stop me. [laughter] let me also ask, and i'm sure this committee, i am a product of public housing in new york city and there is a big issue in repairing public housing new york city, many of it, the one that i grew up in, 60 years old and i recently went to visit beyond repair a number so i am hoping looking at some of these older institutions in new york city's housing authority is the largest housing authority, we are looking at ways in which we can make sure we can rehabilitate so individuals can live in a timely fashion and
they can afford. >> the judgment time has expired. the gentleman from michigan is now recognized for five-minute. >> thank you, madam chair and manor secretary. i do want to do one little piece of housekeeping here. a lot of discussion about whether chair yelling ought to be sitting with you today. just to clear the air on that, she last appeared at this committee at the invitation of the chair with chair powell, i think i called her chair yelling but former chair yelling, secretary yellen was invited by chair powell to do a joint quarterly meeting and march. they're supposed to be back in june, they have not been back, she's not been back at the march meeting is when she made
commitments about getting back to this committee so there is no intention of disrespect to anyone, i'm sure there's no intention of disrespect to anybody back in march when both secretary yellen entered chair powell were invited to a joint hearing on this. on to some of the issues we are talking about today, i have to tell you, i was a little taken aback when i think in response to my calling from california you mentioned that people can't -- i wrote this down, people can't afford to live in california anymore. i think a lot of us see that and realize that and i think a lot of people in california are seeing the and realizing which is why they are moving out of california. what is i think disturbing or maybe certainly infusing for a lot of us is, does not simply mean because california has made california very expensive to live in that the rest of the countries responsibility that subsidize rents and subsidize
the cost structure affect california has imposed upon its own citizens? this could go for any state whether it michigan or new york or california so i want to talk about a program in michigan and you have expressed strong support for down payment assistance as a means of increasing minority homeownership certainly an important goal for many of us. when i was in state legislature in michigan, i have worked on a number of housing issues at that time and i'm happy to be on the subcommittee that's continuing to have that but i was a little surprised to see hud announced recently it would be pursuing rulemaking that would restrict fha financing for loans with this type of assistance and in my home state of michigan, michigan state housing department authority successful
program that provides gamblers with up to $10000 toward the purchase of their first home so could you shed light on what hud hopes to accomplish with this particular role and can you assure me it won't negatively impact successful programs like the one operated by michigan housing finance authority? >> which one? >> you -- there had been an announcement that it would be pursuing rulemaking regarding fha financing moaned set have this assistance, down payment assistance. >> i am thoroughly confused. >> my understanding is there was an announcement by hud, i can't open the link because i have paper but the link to it being cited that it's going to be pursuing rulemaking on this down
payment assistance program to are using there's not going to be rulemaking? >> let me say this since i'm not sure which will you are talking about and it is not clear to me, all of our work is to advance down payment assistance. we want home ownership, who did nothing -- >> so that reclaiming my time here, you can assure me it will not eight negatively impact programs like the one we have in michigan? >> correct. >> wonderful, we will hold you to that. now on to one of the bills we are examining today put get a new down payment is apartment house within hud with a price taker of $100 billion department would be larger than your entire annual budget that this administration has even increased so given that there is
approximately 2500 national state and local programs like the one operated by michigan housing finance authority already providing these down payment assistance to help first-time homebuyers, i might add without using taxpayer dollars, do you think we need to be spending limited resources duplicate efforts with the federal program? >> the judgment time has expired. >> i will pursue that with a written question. >> thank you. mr. scott is also the chair of the house agricultural committee is now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, chair lady, i appreciate that. secretary fudge, i am so proud of you. you and i have served together in the house for many years and you are doing a wonderful job. now i want to pick this up in a way to deal with issues. i want to get to the rental one
because that's raised some issues as well but i think it is very important because we've got the nation, while i am on that, chair lady waters, you are absolutely right, it's very important, this was her first chance to come before this committee and she has this opportunity on her own and i respect you and thank you for doing that. i want to set the record straight. first of all, the infrastructure proposal included a 213 million-dollar investment to create and retrofit over 2
million affordable housing units that were badly and still badly needed but, in the bipartisan infrastructure agreement, that provision did not make the cut so here we are working our way through the infrastructure situation and i think it's fair for us here from you. what do you see? what do you want? it is your job to deal with this. tell us what we must do, how much money we need to make sure we get the job done. >> thank you very, very much. a couple of things to frame this for here. there's no place in america today where a person making
minimum wage can afford a two bedroom apartment. nowhere, not just california. nowhere. until we knee no we need affordable housing so i would say to group we are anticipating, and very helpful in the reconciliation in the bill ... a plan, resources will be there too but at least 2 million. we need far more. there are 11 women people in this country today spending more than half of their money on rent. this cannot be continued and cannot support this bill so we need more we are hopeful we will at least get the resources to match what the president is asking for in the bill back better plan. >> anchor. now let's go to this rental issue because we worked hard, we got nearly $47 billion through and i think the nation needs to know that you can execute the program but much of these funds go down to the very state to
implement. how has not been handled and do you see difficulties in the states fulfilling their obligation? in so much of this, i've been involved in this for quite a while, when we go all the way back to the rdc program when we said billions of dollars down to our state and territories so that we can help homeowners stay in their homes. ...
when we send the money to the states and to anything other than a cdbg or formula city or community the money was held up because they didn't have the capacity to get it out fast enough so what we have been doing personally i've been calling mayors and governors to say we've got to get the money through the system. what we are seeing today is the numbers of resources getting out is increasing exponentially every month. >> the time has expired. the gentleman from kentucky is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair. to the colleague congratulations on your confirmation. i do want to echo the comments about the rental assistance, emergency rental assistance
program. perhaps it is right that you're here all by yourself in your first appearance but it's also right secretary yellen should be here to testify not just about the mismanagement of the program but the statutorily mandated court oversight hearing. i don't know why she has not yet appeared. let's talk about the 46 billion appropriated by congress and only 4% that's reached renters. with vaccines distributed and available in many lockdowns and taxpayers i think are asking the question either this is too late because people now are working again or it's not in time because the moratorium on evictions is about ready to expire. i think this is a poster child
for why hard-working taxpayers are so critical of the big government bureaucratic programs like this and so i just want to ask you madam secretary, given the fact that you do have an obligation under the section 501 to make a report regarding the use of these era funds, you know, what would you say to the taxpayer that's frustrated that only 4% of the $46 billion has actually been deployed? many of these folks are now back at work. >> what i would say he is both treasury and hud have been what they've been directed to do by congress. we've issued the resources, we are providing the assistance and i would further say we are required to make reports. there was a court ordered report coming and i think that it would be more reflective. >> can you see why taxpayers
would be frustrated that 96% of the funds congress appropriated at the height of the pandemic still haven't reached renters? can you understand why taxpayers would be skeptical of the future spending blowouts like this going forward? >> i understand why they would be concerned if they are at risk of being evicted. there's no question about that. i agree with you. >> to my point for many it is either too late, the money is too late getting to them or if it's not too late then time is of the essence to deal with the arrears. i know you are working with that, i appreciate that. just understand taxpayers are always going to be skeptical because of the mismanagement we have seen. housing, i was encouraged by your exchange with chair waters earlier when you discussed the need for services in addition to just a roof over the head of a person struggling with housing and security. i remain concerned many
transitional housing facilities in my district and around the country are barred from receiving federal homelessness assistance grant funding because they mandate wraparound services such as addiction treatment or job training as a condition for continued residence. these requirements are beneficial for specific communities. facilities like the franklin county women shelter in my district in central kentucky are left behind because their business model, which is demonstrably effective in the community and getting homeless women into permanent housing and addiction free lifestyles doesn't comply with a one-size-fits-all qualification for funding availability so for the sake of clarity i am not proposing to end housing first. but i am proposing that we end the government's exclusive reliance on housing first. the current policies create a situation that i just described when providers that have an
excellent record of successfully transitioning people out of homelessness are excluded. are you willing to work with congress to explore innovative options to expand the universe of successful housing programs that receive federal support? >> i'm certainly willing to and i would love to talk to who you think we are being unfair too. >> the previous secretary came to my district and there's a lot of faith-based organizations that are not housing first but have an excellent track record and they are being systematically denied federal assistance and discriminated against because they don't have this one-size-fits-all model of housing first but they deliver results and they don't get your help so i do want to invite you to the six the district of kentucky and others around the country in blue and red districts we we have to mom housing first models that deliver for the homeless population. >> the gentleman's time is expired. the gentleman said the secretary of the treasury should be here.
the secretary of the treasury is not here because the chair didn't invite her to be here because she should not be here. with that the gentleman from texas also the chair of the subcommittee on oversight and investigation is now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you madam chair. i would add to your commentary had we the secretary of the treasury we would be asking for the secretary of hud. this is all about a major distraction. my colleagues on the other side, many of them, not all oppose a minimum wage. many of them fight against a living wage.
they oppose subsidies for housing yet are willing to spend billions on nuclear arms, aircraft carriers, bombers but they oppose the things that give people decent living conditions. housing infrastructure has become a bridge in my district for many people. if the infrastructure has become a lien to in my district, too many people are suffering and madam chair, i want you to know that i totally, completely and absolutely support the housing infrastructure act of 2021 that you have proposed. i support it because nearly 50%
of all u.s. renters are cost burden and pay 30% or more of their income and housing. 71% of the nation's extremely low income rental households spend more than half of their income on rent and utilities. and as the secretary has mentioned, no state, there's no state were a full-time minimum-wage worker can afford a two bedroom unit. as a result of the lack of investment to the affordable housing infrastructure many families pay unaffordable rent or live in substandard conditions. madam secretary, do we need to proclaim housing as infrastructure? >> yes, absolutely. i think the best way to describe it if i may, mr. green, when covid began, the first thing they said to us was stay home. what happened if you didn't have
a home? they said don't send your children to school, teach them virtually. what happened if you didn't have a home or high-speed internet or broadband? they said if you get sick, stay home. what do you do without a home? >> thank you, madam chair and i will yield back the balance of my time. >> thank you. the gentleman from oklahoma mr. lucas is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you madam chair. it's wonderful to see my old friend here, madam secretary. and before we begin much more discussion i would note i think some of the concerns the secretary knows the way my mind works. some of the concern on my side of the room is when the eviction moratorium ends on july 31 if we don't have those resources flowing there's going to be a bunch of folks in a terrible jam on sunrise august 1st, so it's a legitimate concern. how do we make sure that doesn't
happen on the first day of august. that said, thank you for being here. for those that have not served on another committee of the secretary and i served on for a long time, you wouldn't know we worked together on a variety of conservation issues and rural development and from the secretary i learned more about algae bloom in the great lakes than i might have otherwise so i appreciate that relationship that we have had. and you are in a unique position. typically, not always but typically house members don't become cabinet secretaries and a step up to that level of responsibility in the executive branch. there is a vantage point many of us will never have if you don't mind sharing for just a moment or two with the things that have caused you frustration and by
the same token the things that have been a positive surprise in your new role things you wouldn't have had knowledge of sitting on this side of the dais. a. >> it is good to see you again my friend as well. the thing that i think has probably disappointed me most is i find as i come here or other places, there is an assumption that we don't work hard to do the work to serve the american people. we do. i inherited an agency that is overworked, understaffed and yet they still do everything they can to take care of the people we serve. sometimes we forget about the people. that is disappointing me. i think the thing that has encouraged me most is that the people whether i travel around the country and talk to people, they know we care enough to fight to make it right. that is what has encouraged me.
people have hope that we are going to make it right and i feel good about that. >> our time and working together on the committee, i think we were all time legislators and worked to achieve consensus. you were critically important at helping put the 2014 farm bill together. a comprehensive document that affects everything from producing food to the ability to have enough to eat. that seems to be out of style these days and has been for some time. i hope in your role as the secretary that you will continue this. as you work with us. as i loomed back to the concern about july 31, there are some real challenges coming up that face the real people back home. sometimes we all get excited and pump adrenaline on both sides of
the room and both sides of the building but the bottom line is we are here to represent the citizens back home to make sure they all have that ability to put the foot on the first rung of the ladder to carry themselves up and that we make things happen. as you address this issue of what happens after july 31, understand it is a sincere concern by many people we don't come up on what will be another catastrophe for good folks and along with that, if you don't mind, i'm a big proponent of bringing the covid-19 pandemic to an end and that is using science and technology to its best. we now have a variety of vaccines making a difference out there. can you discuss in your final moments how hud has worked to leverage the available resources for so there's access to those vaccines? >> two things. let me say i am concerned as
well. there is no way that i want to see people put on the street or evicted from their apartments or removed from their homes. i am also concerned. we are doing everything we can to prevent it and we know we have a short timeframe but we know every single month we are getting two more and more people and that additional 30 days is going to make a significant difference. as it relates to making sure people are vaccinated we are at a point now we have to take extraordinary steps. we are already doing vaccination clinics and housing facilities and doing them in almost any pop-up situation we can find working along with hud and hhs. >> the gentleman's time has expired. the gentle man from missouri mrf the subcommittee on housing, community development and insurance is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you madam chair. secretary yellen, i want to know
a couple of things that i think my colleague just raised and that's the whole issue of the vaccine. as you may know, missouri is on fire with covid. for the last week or so leading the nation in new cases and hospitalizations. i don't know how many individuals are living in public housing or some form of hud housing are involved in this crisis, but is there a plan that is being implemented in hud housing that is in some way trying to guide residents into accessing the covid vaccine? >> there's a couple things happening. one is we are working with hhs
to be sure vaccine is in the places we believe it is needed most. there still are some minor access issues for the biggest issue is the educational portion because when you talk about missouri it is on fire but it is a fire that is caused by unvaccinated people most of whom choose to be unvaccinated and there's not a whole lot we can do about that other than to continue to tell them why they should be vaccinated and continue to make available the vaccine. it's an every single pharmacy. we have pharmacies that are staying open mall 24 hours a day to be sure people don't have a problem getting off work. twenty-four hours every friday. if you want to drop the kids off at daycare we have a place that will do that for you. everything we can think of we are doing to make sure the vaccine is available. >> thank you. the other issue and i am sure you are getting a lot of inquiries about this but
manufactured housing and tiny housing, like many places we are having difficulties finding places in our communities in the urban part of my district and so we are struggling. some places are saying some areas are rejecting tiny homes and some reject manufactured housing. almost all of them rejected, no matter what the housing is if it is related to housing those that are without shelter. there's nothing hud can do to remove this "not in my backyard" philosophy. are there any success stories in the tiny home process or manufactured homes? >> manufactured homes are something of course we interact with all the time.
you can build a manufactured home for something very reasonable someplace in the hundred thousand dollar range and they are fast to put up and easily installed and an alternative. you know yourself as a former mayor you have zoning and planning that creates a lot of problems and so what we are trying to do now is engage in the communities to talk about the zoning in such that it increases the cost of housing and keeps people out and that is in addition to not in my backyard. we believe until we start to address this we are going to continue to be perpetually in this kind of situation. >> maybe we need a conference with mayors to talk about this whole issue of zoning. last week everybody was talking about the same issue that you just raised and that is zoning. we need to have a revolution in
how we do zoning because we are zoning poverty and it needs to change. at some point i think maybe hud should consider some kind of program with mayors to get them to understand the problem that is going to continue until we begin to address the issue. >> let me just say i was in denver last week. the average price is $700,000. in boulder it's over 800,000. the thing they were complaining about not necessarily more housing they can't get workers. workers can't live there, they can't live close enough to work there so not only do they have a housing crisis but workers shortage so these are things we have to address. >> thank you, madam chair. >> the gentle man from texas.
>> madam chair, point of order. >> the gentle man is recognized. >> i would like to request unanimous consent during my questioning about the rulemaking with the secretary we either miscommunicated or you were unaware about a rule that was proposed in spring of 2021 titled mortgage insurance for mortgage transactions involving down payment assistance programs. alyssa is the contact. this is through omb and i would like to submit this for the record. a. >> without objection. thank you very much. the gentleman from texas mr. williams is now recognized for five minutes. >> i want to join my colleagues expressing my disappointment how the emergency rental assistance aid is still sitting idle while renters and landlords are awaiting help. so it's good to have you here
today. as you are aware bank participation has dropped dramatically in the last several years and they say this is because of two main factors. first the high cost of servicing the loans and a second's enforcement actions taken under the full disclaimer sacked. some of the lenders were hit with unreasonable fines for what amounted that has caused many to simply stop participating in the program rather than run the risk of being fined for minor errors. in response, they made some changes to the quality control program and the department put in a memorandum of understanding to try to create some more certainty within the industry. i'm sure we all agree banks need to be held accountable for the violations if they were intentionally trying to defraud the government however i also don't think we should expose them to high penalties from minor violations and the market might be stronger if we had more
competition which i'm a big supporter of and the competing banks participating in the program so my question can you provide us some assurances the department of justice and you will remain in place and go into detail any detail on additional steps they are taking to attract more banks back in the lending program. >> i would suggest to you and ty are in a better position and a second i think as it relates to the false claims i know it's being worked on and so i'm happy to have a conversation with anybody on your staff about it. >> my last question is about the multifamily department. i've been told that there are massive wait times for some of the deals for people waiting six months to a year before being assigned and the underwriter and i've talked with seniors a lot. these are making it less attractive to come in and
invested their money to increase the supply of affordable housing that we need and i saw that the fha contacted to some of the underwriting work to the private sector but so far it hasn't had any an impact on reducing the wait times. so, secretary, what are you doing to work through the backlog of the deals so we can increase our housing supply and ensure the developers are able to play capital in a timely manner and get people in homes? >> in the past that is what has happened. we are changing the process and streamlining the process i think going forward we will see a shorter period of time. >> thank you for being here and with that i will yield my time back. >> the gentlewoman from ohio was also the chair of the committee
on diversity and inclusion is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you madam chair and thank you to the secretary. let me start by simply saying the title of the hearing is oversight on hud. i will just cut it short. i didn't expect secretary carson to speak for the secretary he could barely defend why he took 16.4% of the budget before he got started.
i would like to remind my colleagues she's only been in this position for about six months. let me educate my colleagues and those listening. she has crisscrossed the united states housing and came to the state of ohio and met with a bipartisan team of housing experts. let me also say to allocate 100% of the funds to the state and local government we should be saying thank you. in my district alone, having them receive the money, that part of my colleagues got correct. we should be applauding her for the rental assistance. now it went to the state and local governments to do that.
including the mayor said he should allocate the funds. allocate the funds and help these individuals who. let me thank you for the few months that you've been there. to increase the housing instability and homelessness caused by the pandemic that puts us in a whole new world, thank you for the investments in the housing infrastructure as a part of the build back better plan. rolling back actions of the trump administration which set us back and undermined the fair housing act. so thank you. now i do have a question if i
have enough time. i want to say thank you to your entire team. they've been amazing in responding and reaching out. earlier this year i have a bill, the housing financial literacy act that passed the house with overwhelming bipartisan support. this deal would give the fha borrowers a 0.25 basis point discount upfront on their mortgage insurance but first-time homebuyers in exchange for taking on the prepurchase housing courts and this bill lowered the down payment rate for the first time homebuyers by more than $500 on average and likely lowered the default rate within the fha portfolio. so under the current law, the fha has the authority to implement this program which it did between 1996 and 2000. so would you consider asking
your team to re- implement this discount program for the first time home buyer? >> we are having discussions about it. >> is there anything in the last minute i would be honored to yield you back at that time to say anything you would like to say to the committee. >> i've not been gone that long. i understand your concerns. i'm doing everything i possibly can do to make sure we are good stewards of the resources we have been given. give me the time to make it happen. when i was sitting on your side of the table i would probably have been asking the same questions, so i'm good with that but we have the people to do it and we will do it. >> madam chair, i will yield back. >> the gentle man from arkansas is recognized for five minutes.
>> great to have you before the committee and let me add to my colleagues congratulations as the hood the secretary getting the rental assistance money started sooner but last summer the congress is faced with an all or nothing player we were going to pass the heroes act to target money that we really felt on a bipartisan basis needed to be targeted so we went for days and days without starting the paycheck protection program that expired august 5th last year. so it passed in december and it has been allocated to the states
and the $21 billion in the american rescue package only 50% of that money has been allocated. so i wanted to correct the record but in fact it hasn't been all allocated so that is an important point. and the ranking member noted the "washington post" five alarm fire slow trickle of the evictions crisis, i would like to submit this article for the record. >> there is a quote from diane, president and ceo of the national low income housing coalition who says setting up a rental assistance programs from scratch is a major time-consuming undertaking but by now for the slow pace of spending in some communities. so i think that's the stage and
i ask you who should be held accountable for getting this money out just within the administration, who is the point person in your view to get this money out to the tenants and landlords who need it? >> the cities and the states. it took some time to stand up the new program. the resources are there and that's why constantly calling the mayors and governors and others to say you are the called in this, get it out. they know they have the resources. if it's any other money they are responsible for it.
in the disproportionate responsibility to try to set those parameters and get that out because the money was distributed in january and here we are almost the first of august and as i said in my opening comments, a tiny portion, seven tenths has been spent and 4% overall. let me switch subjects if i might. you referenced a 50-year-old housing unit stock and made that a point. hud over the years starting in the obama administration had the rental assistance program that started in 2011 to preserve and maintain affordable housing letting public housing authorities to convert into a section eight project rental assistance. the hub secretary created that program and said the
administration is a comprehensive and innovative strategy that offers long-term solutions to preserve and enhance the countries vital affordable housing stock by finding ways to get private capital off the sidelines and back into communities. donovan goes on to say it is a model of smart government. so, my question is do you agree with secretary donovan that it is a smart government? >> i think it's a great problem because the thing about it is it still is maintained as a public housing. they don't own it. but it's what we are looking at. what members of congress saul is we do starts to go down a road of privatizing public housing. >> do you support lifting the statutory cap that currently limits the participation to a
maximum of 455,000 units? >> we are still looking at it but i would suggest to you that i think we should consider raising it, yes. the gentle man -- the gentlewoman from pennsylvania is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair. welcome back. it's a delight to be here with you and we are delighted that you are here speaking about homelessness, affordable housing, repairs to the housing stock and increases to the housing stock. how we are all told to stay home when covid hit is poignant that hundreds of thousands of people in the country had no place to call home and that continues to this day. in montgomery county we have the
montgomery county public housing authority that serves a large portion of montgomery county. it has a portfolio of 625 units and a waiting list of over 20,000 unique applicants. simply put, and you have said over and over there's not enough affordable housing for those who need it. can you tell us from the american jobs plan with some specificity how that proposal, this transformational american jobs plan will make an impact on the tremendous need that is in my district and i imagine is mirrored throughout the country. >> thank you very much for the question. we have not at any time in recent history for decades invested in public housing or new moderate and low income housing. we just haven't some time has finally caught up with us. that's where we find ourselves
today. so the american jobs plan recognizes the fact that millions and millions of people need housing so in the plan originally there were $300 billion set aside just to do housing. there is a new housing tax credit to incentivize forces to build. that is in addition to the tax credits. the plan right now looks like it is 200 billion, but it's the housing. up to 500,000 renovated and rehabilitated units. it's very exciting and i do hope we will get it across the finish line with really broad bipartisan support. you represented another problem
in my district which is many of our housing units are 40 years or more old. we had the opportunity and some investment to renovate and reconstruct another but the capital needs are very great just outside my district in philadelphia 60% of the housing stock was built more than 50 years ago. do you believe the funds will be able to cover the full scope of what is needed if you had a magic wand, what would be needed to make the repairs so that these are decent as you say energy efficient dry places? >> 40 billion is a down payment. we know that we would need so much more. it's estimated between 70,000,000,100,000,000,000 or more but we know 40 billion is a great a down payment to start to make the change we need to make.
they know we've never given them these kind of resources. do i think it's a great start, yes. i want to switch to something else which is ensuring proper housing for those who suffer from the disease that substance use disorder, addiction or those with mental health ailments. we know often times these people are not able to find affordable and proper housing. one that is precisely needed to stabilize their lives and begin to heal. what efforts is hud leading for the populations of people struggling with the disease or mental health issues. >> there is a carveout in the jobs plan that asks for billions of dollars for housing for the
disabled which would include the population that you are referencing we did the signal to your team that we want to talk about the problem of the definition of group homes for those that are in recovery and unlike those that are sometimes taking great advantage of people who are in the greatest of need. thank you madam chair man. i will yield back. >> the gentleman from tennessee is now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you madam chair and thank you madam secretary for appearing today. if you would welcome the opportunity to talk about something that is opportunity zones if i could. we know the opportunity zones were created in the jobs act of 2017. in my state of tennessee we had
176 opportunity zones, 32 in shelby county which is an area that i represented with steve cohen and 2019 i had the opportunity to tour one of those called union road and now called walk. it's actually an steve cohen's district. i toured that with your predecessor, secretary carson. if i could, could you talk about the biden administration's position right now and is the administration open to expanding the opportunity zones? >> certainly we are going to be talking about it because not only have the senate members mentioned it as well but it's something people feel very good about so we will be having further conversations. >> can you talk about what specific changes or reforms the
administration would look at through the existing opportunity zones or to further the opportunity zones? >> i don't know because we haven't had the discussions. >> do you talk about the biden administration and where they stand right now as to the biden appraisal task force that hud was garnered with the leadership of? >> i am a chair of the task force. what we are talking about is what we know to be true that we have throughout the nation's history looked at the property and certain communities and undervalued those homes. my home is undervalued compared to literally within walking distance. but my home is valued as much as
20,000 less than a comparable home in a community. we want to level the playing field. >> you know, i hear from a number of sha borrowers that say they can't compete in today's market. that sellers refusing to obtain offers and due to concerns with certain minimum property requirements may be with appraisal issues, concerns over the quality of the loan itself. can you talk about what fha is doing to combat that narrative and try to address these issues? >> first thing they can't be using appraisals. we just started the committee so if they've had problems in the past, it certainly wasn't that. and i don't think that there is anything that i see no basis. if they are concerned, they need to raise with those exact concerns are but there is nothing that has been changed at this point that would create a problem for them. >> one last thing, and i
appreciate you allowing me to jump to different issues. this involves the community block grant program. and i think that we could all agree could serve a vital role. my question is with formula b that uses pre- 1940 housing unit variables in determining the sizes. my position would be that allows cities with all the populations 85 years ago to receive larger grants. and again i use my city of memphis as an example. in the year 2020 the city of baltimore received three times as much funding as memphis, despite baltimore having a lower population and property rate in current times. can you address whether you think the cdbg, whether the
formula is outdated and in fact does need to be modernized? >> i think we need to take a look at it just like we do so many other formulas. we are in the process of evaluating where we stand and absolutely i think we should look at it. >> i do appreciate that answer. i would appreciate if your staff can follow up with a lien on any proposals and maybe we can share ideas. the gentleman's time is expired. the gentlewoman from texas, ms. garcia, is now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you madam chair for this very important hearing and our indentation. madam secretary, it just sounds so great to say that. welcome to your hearing on the financial services. i know many of us to join in standing with you and your success and if there is anything
i or my office can do to help do not hesitate to call. i will focus on housing and access to housing. research shows access to housing equals a healthy and productive society. it means access to building generational wealth and also means closing the racial wealth gap. it's estimated that between 2020 and 2040, 70% of the new homeowners will be latino. and freddie mac found that in 2019 there were 8.3 million mortgage ready latinos age 45 and under. the association of real estate professionals found the top producing real estate firms are the ones that are offered bilingual services throughout all stages of the home buying process. in light of this, it is important that we think about how we can use language access to expand access to housing.
it's great to see that the housing service and agency provides the lingual services, and as you said about the homeless, that we do not provide services, we set them up for failure. we want the homebuyers to succeed. this is a critical service important to the home buyers struggling to navigate such a decision. the american rescue plan provided 100 million for housing counseling to help struggling families stay in their homes. but counselors do not always have the ability to assist with legal help when they need it. is hud reviewing how they can connect the counseling with legal aid services in the future and if so, how is hud working with agencies and legal aid services to ensure access for those who do not primarily speak english? >> right now we have about $20 million from the funds allocated by congress to assist
with legal issues especially designed of course with those facing eviction but it can be used for other things, so we have 20 million that came from the rescue plan. in addition to which we do know as well the wealth gap or the gap between homeownership for black and white americans is as it was in 1968. the need to bring in black and brown people in a way that is comfortable to them so we do have resources that we are working on daily. >> we will address the services for those -- >> thank you so much. and there's much being said about how many dollars have actually been a spent, and i think it is clear that you have said 100% of the dollars have been allocated that were
received and we all know as you have also stated that the problem becomes, you said to the states and then the states do not act quickly enough or sometimes they sort of play with the money and they do not do quite what we asked them to do. as you know, we are hesitant about the situation where the dollars for disaster mitigation in houston and in texas and it's another example of how the dollars are spent, but the governors sometimes governors from the other side of the aisle in our case just decided to either delay or do their own formulas or do whatever they want with the dollars. what can we do to prevent those situations from happening, what other guardrails and is it
possible that some of these dollars go directly to the cities in houston that probably handle the dollars and have the resources and the staff to quickly get the dollars out the door? >> the good thing is the cities do get it directly because they are entitlement cities. but i would say i was in this body long enough before to have heard many times states have the rights and should be able to do what they want. there's only so much we can do based upon the way the law is written so we are enforcing at t the best that we can. >> i will yield back. >> the gentle man from georgia is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you madam chair. madam secretary, it's great to see you again. congratulations on your role. primary funding source for many
housing authorities is a monthly drawdown from hud. however guidance from the office of the financial states and hud auditors do not recognize and only permanent officials can obtain the drawdowns. what that means is when a housing authority has an interim director a transition period it may not be able to access. they were able to do this, to do drawdowns in the past. i'm not sure why the policy change but this is becoming a problem and it is a problem with small cities. it recently happened in my district that has an interim director and they were unable to draw down the money that they needed and they were able to come to a one time resolution with hud, but there are thousands of state and local housing authorities in the country that frequently have the
directors leave their position in the interim directors appointed. understand the intent of the policies prevent fraud but there needs to be some kind of process for the interim directors to access the download. so is there something that you can look into and find a permanent solution for the housing authorities especially during this time period that we are in the right now so they do not have to go through so many hoops if they have an interim director to change where they can actually access the funds? >> absolutely because if that is the case we do need to look into it. there's nothing mentioned about the drawdown. >> i appreciate that and like i said with my city in georgia recently they had to go through this. there was a one-time solution, but if they do not have an executive director by the time the next month comes in, they will have to go through that again. on another issue i would like to echo some of the concerns that have been raised regarding mismanagement of emergency
rental assistance funds, the bipartisan omnibus provided a structure for a 25 billion-dollar rental assistance program but instead of continuing the program, democrats established an entirely new partisan program from scratch. this created two different sets of rules for state and local governments to follow and resulted in less than 4% of the funds distributed so far. this has created the some of the potentially worst legislating that i've seen with two different programs with two different sets of rules that already cities and states are trying to work through. so, the question is if congress consolidated the two programs into one, would that help get the funds out to the renters more quickly? >> the congress should do what they think is best. i cannot make a decision of judgment based on what congress will do but i will say the more streamlined, the better. what hud does is follow the rules. when congress tells us how to do
something, that is what we do. >> with two sets of rules and wanting to accomplish the same thing it gets convoluted and already states and local governments have trouble dealing with federal government and only 4% of the funds making it down it seems if we could get a functioning rental assistance program would there be a need for an eviction moratorium? >> i think that the one thing that we don't talk about is the fact that these funds were put in place because of an emergency situation. i think coming out of covid, either way we would have needed it. i don't know that as a general rule, certainly because of covid certainly i would say yes. >> 4% being distributed it seems to me that if we could get the monies to the people who need it, we wouldn't have to have the eviction moratorium. with that, madam chair, i would yield back.
>> thank you. the gentlewoman from iowa, ms. asked me -- axney. >> i also know that hud has been helping the state and local groups in trying to run those programs. iowa's state program hasn't done well and getting the state out. i believe that at the end of june they've given out just about 2% of the funding they received. however i do not understand why my republican colleagues on the other side of the aisle are hung up on the treasury. i have a local program in polk county that has given out more than two thirds of the funding. it's the largest most populated in the state. so, we can get it out there and to the folks who need it but apparently our state government cannot so clearly this isn't a question of the rules preventing
it but it's about the communities that have the will and the knowledge to support the people properly, so sec., my question is can you share some of what hud disease as the best practices here so we can encourage the state to adopt those? >> the easiest thing is for the communities whether it be the state or the county, most people at risk either have work with social workers or they know who their landlords are. we need to do the work. they want it to be easy. but they have two start to talk with people on the ground who are doing this every day. it's not hard to find out who they are and get the resources but we've also made it somewhat cumbersome for the renters. we assume a certain amount of sophistication for the renters to get the resources because we are putting the onus on the renters to come and ask for the resources. so we have to find another way
to reach those renters and get them the kind of information they need to get those resources out. >> i look forward to continuing to work with you on those opportunities and i will continue to work with the state. they sound like good ideas and as you mentioned they are working with those local groups so you are right, it works. i did want to also point out one other thing is our governor decided not to give people the three months of forward rend that they could and to me it seems like a pretty clear way to provide help without making the same person apply every single month. it's going to make administering of this easy year as well so is that something you've seen elsewhere and do you agree this would raise costs if people have to apply repeatedly? >> there's no question one of the complaints we get is too much paperwork. it would be a good thing to
continue to move forward and ease up the pressures on the power's us. >> absolutely. >> i hope the state government can put this in place as it reconsiders passing the opportunity to help more renters in the second round. i'd like to move on to something i think could help with affordable housing across the country and that is manufactured housing which i think can be part of the solution to helping get a good solid roof over folks heads. however for those who own a home itself but don't get the land they don't get that benefit if it is up to the levels they cannot afford or if they are kicked out for no reason forcing them to sell their homes sometimes. i had a constituent that had to sell for a 40% loss of what she paid for just three years earlier because of these predatory tactics. so, madam secretary, do you think there is more we can do to make manufactured housing communities work as affordable housing that is truly prioritizing is the tenets
rather than a solely focusing on extracting profit? >> yes, we can and i've spoken with the manufactured housing group. i've also spoken with tenets not just of public housing manufactured housing as well but to try to work through some issues that we think are going to be helpful. but they know there is a problem and we know there is a problem so i believe it can work. >> are you pulling together best practices from some of the landlords that are doing the right thing? >> absolutely. i would love to see some of those if we get a chance. thank you for doing that. it's why i introduced a couple bills to get protections in place so things like this don't happen. i've got the manufactured housing tenets bill of rights that would increase protections for renters and federally backed properties and the mhc preservation act that provides grants to resident owned groups and others who might want to step up and own the places themselves and give those benefits to the residence so i hope we can work together on
those to get people more protected and safe in their homes they currently live and also give other folks more opportunity for affordable housing. thank you so much, madam secretary for all that you are doing and thank you for helping us move this agenda forward. i will yield back. >> .. >> and quality affordable
homes for all. as you know this certainly needs ensuring veterans have affordable access to housing know veterans you have to worry about having a roof over his or her head. currently dropped united states there are still far too many veterans were homeless and at risk of losing their home so what was he doing through had in collaboration with the v.a. and those who serve veterans to extend housing opportunities? >> that's really great question and something i wrestle with every day and i had the opportunity to speak with secretary mcdonough and there is no reason than any but should be homeless but especially those serve their nation with such distinction so we are trying to find more ways right now in our system had we have more than 20000 vouchers for veterans in this budget the president's budget we authorized almost 100,000
we are just trying to make sure we can find a way to get to the veterans who are homeless. but it takes a concerted effort they are resilient so when they get into these communities it is a culture. 's we are breaking down the barriers every day. >> that's great i look forward to working with your office figuring out how to get those unused vouchers out let's make sure the veterans are using them and they are getting into their hands with the emergency rental assistance dollars and those reports will we be reporting on the status of veteran homelessness or is that separate quick. >> it is separate coming to
the v.a. that i will make sure we get you that information. >> thank you another issue you are passionate about is lead paint in older housing. ohio has the most of the vouchers for housing bill prior to 78 only behind california and new york this can have serious developmental effects something we need to address had on. what more can we do on the preventative side to identify housing with lead-based be in northeastern families are cap safe quick. >> it almost brings me to tears 1000 children annually are poisoned to the extent they cannot function all the children in the public schools have elevated levels of red. we must find a way to do
something about led paint and housing i just needed to help me fight for it. >> i will continue to do just that veterans homelessness and i yield back. >> the gentlewoman from massachusetts is now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you to the secretary for being here today what a welcome change i am overjoyed to have someone dedicated to exacting housing justice at the helm of development heard housing and urban development former secretary came before the committee refusing to answer any of my questions
safe housing was a socially determined of health and he refused to answer i asked if he thought substandard housing conditions posed a threat and he refused to answer i asked if my constituents deserve to live in life-threatening more than he refused to answer and you know when surprise he repeatedly tried to cut funding from overdue repairs unlike the prior administration the secretary avoided the problem slashing much needed resources president biden has proposed a budget with the build back better plan including billions of funding to address public housing backlog and millions to remove lead-based pay and other health hazards hearing congress we're working urgently we appreciate having partners in this fight but
also work that had can do on its own without congress to improve inspections and repairs to subsidize units and undoubtedly and then to address once and for all. and then just to return to the and just status quo normal. and then with that property that failed the react inspection and then to receive a passing score is this data currently tracked? >> at an awfully track the exact situation so what we try to do is make an agreement
with the landlord if it is section eight. the reason i demanded we started inspections again. of the concern is many people so trying to speed up the process. and then what they get in them and look at them. and with the concerns that they may have. people are depending on us. it is my expectation in the 30 day period they look at every single one. >> that is so critical that you would be measures on
—-dash you be open to working with our office to explore where the data can be collected and reported to ensure hi this meeting oversight responsibility? >> i'm happy to because we already should have been. throughout my district i continue to hear complaints about some constituents that sometimes providers take years and then how to follow up promptly with the provider claims. are there any strategies currently under had to do it back in compliance quickly.
>> there are procedures in place that for so long we have been lax in following up and then go overboard because they are then more lenient that i would be in previous administrations. but then i want taxpayer dollars period. >> agreed. but then to ensure the time the failing score and i completed repair is a short as possible. >> thank you madame chair thank you for being here.
and united states of america is the greatest nation on earth. >> one of the thing that makes us a great nation that we as people we want to be the leaders of the world. we are perfect nation now we are a great nation. >> that's a great answer and i appreciate that and in the plane of trying to correct, am sure you are aware undercurrent line 1001 that it is a crime to knowingly make fraudulent statements or representations so in the vein of finding fried and with
artificial intelligence defined fraud to stop and then not coming through the way they should or a pretend tenant taking advantage of our programs? and a you have finite resources have you thought about artificial intelligence quick. >> i haven't because it hasn't been proven to work overtime. i would rather air on a person helping then not. >> what do you think about looking at different programs? order to use on a test pilot basis? as we know many financial institutions are using ai for underwriting to eliminate fraud and be more effective in the way they allocate credit so in this case we make sure
were giving help where help is needed. >> is not something have given thought prior to your question but we are always trying to make sure people are treated better so the federal government operates better something to think about. >> and we can both agree your resources are limited and your needs are great. so then we can focus resources where they are needed and in that vein, what are the limits of helping people at had? the financial limits? you can educate me and then perhaps do you think they are too high? >> which limits? >> income limits. >> as a nation is evolving or
what are dollar kim by you as to what it cost for housing i don't think we are too high at all. >> is there a point someone's making too much money you are 700 percent quick. >> of course we have rules and guidelines of course. we don't just a any person any amount of money can be serviced by had. obviously guidelines and most of those are 80 percent of the average needed income or less. >> so 80 percent is the general standard that had uses to determine when someone can no longer receive aid quick. >> correct of the average median income so every community is different so the dollar amount is different in every community. >> your time is expired.
>> thank you madame chair. i was glad to hear your comments on zoning. i think zoning can make housing extremely expensive and in some places unlivable. i appreciate your comments identify with those i think zoning can be hurtful to people in terms of making housing very expensive by putting requirements that is not practical and certainly i know in texas we are pretty good about zoning i thinks we have relatively affordable housing that creates a lot of demand for people coming from other parts driving up housing prices and i yield back. >> the gentleman from michigan is now recognized for five
minutes. >> thank you chairman of madame secretary it so incredibly good to see you and thank you for being accessible right from the beginning and meeting with the congresswoman and i. many on your team know firsthand the great recession devastated many places like wayne county and many communities have yet to fully recover. in my district for the crisis still ongoing i just want to thank you so much for including restoring communities left behind act that we are addressing tax foreclosure and also homelessness in a neighborhood with revitalization and thank you for that partnership as you probably know wayne county treasury has foreclosed on
more than 100,000 families for delinquent property taxes one out of four properties in the entire county madame secretary we used to have one of the highest black homeownership rates in the country people would envy. what are we doing here? is something we always bragged about so for tax foreclosure relief with the home assistance fund i cannot thank you enough for the communities left behind act i also know in the city of detroit specifically that more than 92 percent of the homes were over assessed would like to point to those that were over assessed 600 million that's nearly 96000 homes taxed twice
as much as they should have. and that continues to contribute to the tax foreclosure issues that we continue to see. >> without objection. >> we don't want you to take on this role of telling what localities what to do but to make a statement that could be violating the fair housing act. can had considered withholding funds to localities that tax at such a high rate in violation of the fair housing act? >> first of all we follow the law so there is a fair housing violation we went to know about it to investigate and do whatever is necessary so first
thing i hope you would do is contact our office or just tell me i will make sure people take a look at it and there are conversations we can have about resources coming to communities. >> i will be more than willing there is a study that shows the over assessment continues. one of the things the department can take steps it's to codify and identify which localities are over assessing that is contributing to tax foreclosure has there been any discussion about a database or recording of over assessment around the country that you are aware of quick. >> i will check. >> wayne county property taxes account for 60 percent of the general fund revenue that's what i'm hoping to have your partnership and leadership at
the federal level at least to call out when it is wrong to do it at least to show some sort of alignment with property owners that are black owned property owners in this crisis needs to be addressed or in some way to show this is wrong and we need to do something about it and pushback. >> rest assured i'm the mayor of a small city and i'm a lawyer by training so we will follow the law into what we can to make sure is done properly. >> i appreciate that madame secretary. i am extremely grateful in conversation earlier this year i'm so incredibly happy to see the chairwoman put $10 billion to the housing and infrastructure act. can you talk about the next steps and many of us are in
support of that with the actions of the administration to push that forward. >> gentleman's time is expired. >> the gentleman from tennessee is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you chairwoman and also for convening the hearing today also welcome to the secretary back to the house in the first time before the committee i am a recovering lawyer as well so i feel i have appreciation for your plate. this hearing is long overdue had was tasked with a significant role in response to covid-19 but in my opinion unfortunately has failed to live up to the responsibilities specifically i've been extremely disappointed of the slow rollout of rental assistance as well as development and implementation of confusing guidelines congress appropriated 46 million of rental assistance and we have
heard repeatedly after that initial funding data shows less than 4 percent has been used to help eligible households this puts millions of families at risk of eviction and hurting landlords across the country under the previous administration the treasury had emergency rental assistance programs to accompany those funds in january 19 the biden administration decided to publish new rules and february it has been revised again and then added new rules in may and then revised again in june. how has this constant revision of rules and redtape slow funds from helping eligible families and households who have need quick. >> it hasn't slowed it because
the money came from treasury and went out immediately but the rulemaking i agree has been cumbersome i don't disagree. but it has not been the problem getting the resources out. >> i am concerned housing cost coming out of had are simply throwing money at old outdated programs that will not build or incentivize the creation of new housing units. several modern innovative programs do exist and they are working well in states like mine. my friend from arkansas emphasized how the program is a proven solution to allow residents flexibility secretary, can you expand on the benefits the program has created for authorities the public housing. >> they leverage the authorities and it gives them
the opportunity especially relating to capital improvement when they could just do the resources congress and give them. >> sense the prior proposal included tens of billions into retrofitting public housing , is that a step away from successful programs like rad? >> absolutely not. >> what do you think the administration should do to seize the opportunity that rad creates quick. >> grad is expanding all over the country. nobody is trying to do away with that. what we want is to take care of people in public housing to be sure they live in safe decent housing and that we can take mold off of walls and be sure we don't have rodent infestation and to be sure they live in a decent environment if rad helps to that that is great we are for
whatever it is we can do obviously within our responsibilities and authority to make sure people live in decent housing. >> 12.9 percent of total occupied housing units of manufactured homes may be the most affordable homeownership option available for minorities and underserved and low income borrowers. 90 percent of new homes under 75000 our manufactured housing yet increasingly we see scenarios where localities are using zoning ordinances to exclude manufactured homes and their communities. had has the authority to prevent localities from excluding manufactured homes but they have not utilized it how can had encourage communities to expand affordable housing options like manufactured homes quick. >> i would disagree had has
ability to change local zoning. we do not. >> you don't see a way that head on - - had can help quick. >> we are working on it but we don't have the authority to change local zoning law. >> i yield back. >> your time has expired the chair recognizes the gentlewoman for five minutes spent thinking mr. chairman and the secretary for joining us today is an important foundation to should ensure low income families and those that are marginalized are served by the program as we move forward we need to focus on breaking down barriers but we also need to think how we can maximize opportunity and minimize disparity to the housing system i have legislation included as a part of the hearing today to help ensure we break down barriers
and those getting registered to vote at their new residence the consumer protection financial bureau to those who are moving can register to vote and what their rights are under the law so the owners of federally assisted housing can provide this information making movie on - - moving little bit easier is based on a simple idea should not matter how often you have to move but with zip code you are moving to people shove the schools they need to exercise their voice and a representative government so how could a tenant with more information whether about the light for services they can access help to reduce social economic disparities for the population that those programs serve? >> i was a people underestimate people who live in public housing.
they do want to know what their rights are and understand how they can become more involved in their communities as why we have more attendance associations of my they ask for more information they want computers and the community rose and they want to be a contributing member of society like everybody else. i think it's great. >> i have no additional questions i look forward to working with you to implement this program getting everyone the access and information they need to voice their concern to be a part of the representative government i yield back. >> the gentleman from missouri is recognized for five minutes. >> democrats are falling short on the responsibility for oversight of the biden administration the american people need to know about it the cpb has an acting director who has not been confirmed by the senate making major policy decisions taking enforcement
actions resending policy for abusive practices delayed implementation of the debt collection will moving full speed ahead of 1071 of dodd frank there have been reports cpb has started investigations with senior career staff to remove them due to political affiliation this could potentially violate the civil service reform act the chairwoman cannot find time to testify before this committee at the end of this month it will be a full year since someone testified to this committee conversely previously chairman waters took over the chairmanship it took two months for her to call up the former director as far as this goes today the single most pressing housing issue is the eviction moratorium that is set to
expire july 31st congress responded to the crisis by passing $46 billion of winter assistance. congress provided you the money and then you will be evicted but today treasury has on.5 billion of that much money is actually reached renters could it be that treasury secretary has abandoned his sense of ownership or oversight and refuses to appear in front of congress you are statutory required to discuss on a courtly basis it was agreed to in a bipartisan basis in the c.a.r.e.s. act and even maintained and the bill passed in march where were you last year last quarter nowhere near this committee unless she of
plans in september is two consecutive quarters breaking the law also secretary ellen was to be before the small business committee with the pvp program she is yet to appear there she has attended to political events and making an overseas trip i'm not complaining she's doing happened she has time for that than she has time to do her statutory duty to appear here. i think our colleagues across the aisle went to hold biden appointees accountable it is this neglect of the law at the expense of the american people's view that it will take its toll and with that i will begin my questions. secretary five with the largest driving housing affordability we have seen impacts of a low housing stock
of home prices the national association of homebuilders and the council regulations imposed for accounting for an average of 32 percent of multifamily development cost and in many cases the number is 42 percent what does had mean to the multifamily developments quick. >> i had the opportunity to meet with the homebuyers and had is not responsible for lumbar or plastic or anything else. but what we're trying to do is assist commerce and other agencies who look at the supply chain. my colleagues for many years talked about the free market. it is a free market. so there is nothing that had specifically can do to bring down the cost of housing but through the programs you have approved to get funding whether the housing trust fund
or cvd g. >> my time is running short i apologize. my question is there is 32 percent of multifamily housing is development cost so the number is huge on rules and regulations is there something you thank you can help do to minimize that quick. >> we tried to provide gap financing. if the cost of a home now is 32000 more than it was one year ago things that congress has approved the housing tax credits and all the other tools you have given us we can at least bring down the cost for the end-user we cannot bring down the cost of the unit itself. >> that the cost on the front end. >> we shall now recognize the gentleman for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chair welcome
madame secretary but not have the pleasure of working with human congress that i am in your new position as the single biggest issue in the district i represent. and in the inner suburbs can be well above the million dollars in the southeastern part of massachusetts less than one fifth but housing is always on the top of people's minds to see double-digit increase in the price of housing the last couple of years. i'm please massachusetts has started to step up and late last year the state legislature passed the bill to reduce from a super majority and the vote count required to approve special permits to approve housing at the local level it's a good first step to alleviate the pressure at least in the parts of the district where demand outpaces
supply and zoning is exclusionary. understanding had cannot directly change zoning laws, are there other steps you would like to see massachusetts are the other states do to encourage more housing through statutory changes quick. >> we cannot change it that we are having discussions we are trying to find ways just to bring to their attention, some of the ordinances they may have. as mayor i didn't look back and what we did 40 or 50 years ago that the future changes one small thing. but are the things we are doing to increase funding in the housing trust fund which is designed to assist with building or providing housing for low or moderate income
people have cdbg and many is flexible that we can provide resources to assist the end-user in its $50000 to build the home but the average person can only afford 40 we can make up the $10000 different so there are tools congress has given us that we can use it's just that we need the local communities to help us to do it. >> madame secretary can we work with your office on that quick. >> absolutely. >> the second part of my district is registering abandoned housing and working to bring that up to code many communities are working hard to return these abandoned properties to be places to live other programs that makes it easier for cities to upgrade abandoned properties turning them into habitable
places to live quick. >> we have all kinds of low income housing of that's what you are asking caller office we can give you all the information that you need a lot of time small communities don't even know it is available. >> i appreciate that. the final question. the chairwoman has proposed a transformative series of bills and housing infrastructure so tell this committee what you think the funding and policy put forward could do for housing stability and access in the country. >> if you allow me i will not discuss the various parts of the legislation but i will say housing is the number one crisis in this country today. whatever it takes to address it at our office at peace are a lot of pieces.
but if we do not address the crisis now it will just continue to get worse what about the crisis before covid? all it did was lay beer how big a crisis it was. if we don't take this opportunity to invest in housing as we have not done in generations, we will never be able to catch up. >> thank you madame secretary. i yield back. >> the gentle man from south carolina is recognized for five minutes. >> congratulations on your new position thank you for being with us today. when the representatives said you are not accountable for the actions of secretary ellen you are right you are not responsible but we can all agree it is critically important issue and sent secretary ellen is not here and will not appear before the
moratorium expires before the end of the month also we can all agree there is a great need to get these dollars to the intended target of renters and landlords. so the legislation was drafted in the way and then to see they are doing a very good job. but it's just not working but we need to find out and get this done quickly.
can you help us find out how much of the 40 plus billion dollars has reach the intended target and can you please help get the resources where they need to go? >> yes. i will do everything i can you have it and i will get in touch with treasury to see if i can get those numbers for you and yes we are continuing to talk. we have oversight but we cannot demand. >> i've only been here two and half years. you spent more time than i have. >> but i would go and talk to me state and local people and tell them what they needed to do i was proactive to make sure that they knew what was happening so to take that initiative you are feeling your own constituents housing that we support we do.
>> can you give best practices to achieve these objectives. >> and thank you for your help to achieve this very important objective. >> i want to switch gears you enter the biden ministrations efforts over covid-19 and i appreciate those efforts i've been telling everyone in my district they need to get once we can get on with our lives. i went to go to the words we heard during the election vice president harris then candidate said if past is prologue the scientist and health officials will not be able to weigh in on the efficacy of the vaccine they
will be muzzled and suppressed and sidelined someone we look at vaccine hesitancy among demographic groups we see rates and african-american communities are not where they should be so what can we do to help fix this problem were to help repair the trust in government? >> a couple of things there is a justified distrust of african-americans to the government even today more women die in child birth than any other color more doctors ignore problems that black people have. so there is a justified distrust especially in medicine. but we have to go to the people that historically we did not do it does not bother me to go into a public housing facility and talk about getting the shots. when people they trust whether their pastor or the college coach or high school coach i
think they have a different outcome so i am hopeful all of us realize how important it is to have one-on-one conversation. that can turn the tide. >> of everyone that once one can get one as quickly as possible. that's the only way to get the county back on track. i yield back. >> the gentleman from north carolina is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman madame secretary. >> first of all what a pleasure it is to have you here today i was honored to serve with you in this body and for your excellent leadership and thank you for showing up in my district when we asked you to speak. secretary you touched on section eight vouchers and
discrimination currently in my district there is the 11 year waitlist to receive a voucher and 21 percent of the families in my district were unable to find housing by the time the voucher expired of 180 days. can you describe why it is so important we move swiftly for income discrimination and nationwide and what is the possibility of expanding that 180 days initially or to issue more vouchers? nice to see you. source of income has been around a long time even with social security. we have people and it has always been crazy to me because they know they will get a check every month so i don't understand why there are these issues. we are finding more and more because of the lack of
supply, that people are not accepting these because they can make so much more. we need to expand the base of rental properties you can have thousands of vouchers but if they have no place to use them because people are upset because they get social security or a disability check , we do need to find a way to legally prevent income discrimination. we have been talking about it within fair housing and as we get further in discussions i'm happy to talk to about it. >> your 2022 budget calls for support of those conversions from section eight under rental assistance so can you explain how hard would it administer assistance in such a way long-term affordability and oversight is maintained and residents are not at risk
of losing stable housing they can afford quick. >> there is no circumstance that would be totally or privately controlled. generally it is a 40 / 60 split there is a project right here in maryland i would love for you to take a look at. but trust me clearly. i will never ever allow the privatization of public housing. >> thank you. also i like to take the time my bill of the self-sufficiency act would help to ensure residents live in the housing units are converted which have complement housing services. so as you know to obtain fha and v.a. mortgage loans at high rates than conventional loans of fannie mae and freddie mac and in 201937 percent of home buyers
using the fha mortgage insurance program despite the fact it is overwhelmingly serving the black borders and the ownership rate is still lower than 68 so that conventional market would do a better job to help narrow the overall gap and you have ideas how that might be done and the role that had could play quick. >> we can and will do a better job. right now we look at how fha determines credit worthiness and which mortgages they want to do. we are taking every single thing out-of-the-box because had has been as much of a problem. >> thank you for being here and chairwoman waters thank you for having the secretary and to address this body so
please reach out to us. i yield back. >> the gentle man from north carolina is now recognized for five minutes. >> congratulations on your new role secretary. this is a bit of a follow-up so it seems like fund for infrastructure development would go a lot further if it was paired with regulatory reforms that reduce the cost of construction. according to the national association of homebuilders and national multifamily housing council 30 percent of the cost of new construction is due to regulations at the federal and state and local level. it's my understanding you said had cannot help with state and
local regulations. >> with the zoning. >> - - just a small part so here is what is going on in my district and i imagine many districts having a hard time affording housing. there is no ability to help you send money to bike paths and pools and treeplanting that is a fine idea but not now. i am concerned you have a tremendous ability to make housing more affordable you could make funding conditional on low were regulations. is there anything you could do to reduce a single regulatory hurdle to lower the cost of housing for regular americans? >> first i don't send money to pools communities do that but second, as i have said earlier we do not control states we
control what we control based on the law. we will always follow the law. but tomorrow summer asked me we are trying to control what their states do. what we do is what you have authorized us to do. >> i will reclaim my time. we have a tremendous influence of how the federal works of course we want to preserve the rights of states and regulations but make sure to properly steer people to use taxpayer dollars to think we can all agree with that we went to lower the cost of housing for average everyday for the forgotten americans out there. it's no secret america has a housing supply a shortage the presidents plan is to retrofit more than 2 million homes and commercial buildings to address the affordable housing crisis. however attempting to merge with existing units so
preserving that might be for the current occupant to have a new housing unit that meets the unmet need. this is easy math how many units are created when the existing home is retrofitted? >> nine. but the president asked for 2 million new units retrofitting 500,000. >> that 213 billion is on retrofitting that's not creating new units. so that 213 billion the biden infrastructure proposal wants to spend what percentage should be devoted exclusively to the building of new housing units? >> it's not broken down at all it's a top line number. >> you think some should be
devoted to building of new housing? >> absolutely. >> slightly different question just getting details on this. understand that three had nominees on record for supporting defined the police efforts is that support you nominees who support defending the police. >> i don't know if that is accurate. >> if they were on record is that something you would support their nomination. >> that is not my decision. it is the decision of the senate. >> you would not weigh in. >> i would not. >> i yield back. >> the gentlewoman from new york is now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you chairman waters for convening this important hearing and also secretary for coming before us today and sharing your expertise and
knowledge. i think hearing a lot of these question lines from the other side of the aisle is like groundhog day these are the things we hear over and over again. i think there is some confusion or perhaps misinformation you are trying to communicate is not getting across. so i one is to talk about the emergency rental assistance program. for folks who are just tuning in at home, this was developed in response to the crisis that we had due to the pandemic. massive spikes of unemployment due to shutdown and people were at risk of being evicted so congress authorized $46 billion of emergency rental assistance to get tenant similars to help cover the rent during this time.
now the issue we have is the cdc eviction moratorium is set to expire in 11 days. of the $46 billion that we have authorized has been provided in emergency rental assistance, very little has gone out. again as you have communicated, this is not under the domain or due to any bottlenecks at had but we would say this is due to state and local municipal governments. >> correct. >> the checks have gone out. the money has been dispersed. the reason the holdup is because governors, mayors and municipal governments are not getting it out to people. >> correct. >> all of this hubbub about talking to the treasury
secretary and you being right before us with your expertise. i think they are trying to address the bottleneck is there a fair assessment quick. >> yes. >> thank you my colleagues respectfully if they are concerned about these bottlenecks they need to get their governors on their phone they are mayors. and then i would beseech my colleagues if they represent a state where the governor is of the same party to be unafraid to hold your own party governor accountable. so what i will say and with the biden administration but
it the montoya is set to expire in 11 days but the money to help people has not gone out. so in your view should this eviction moratorium be extended? >> i cannot's feet for the cdc that has said there is a health crisis but the fair thing that can be done but all hands on deck. >> succumbing up under the course of this hearing.
>> would it be fair to say for the emergency rental assistance if we evicted a large population due to this mismatch time incurred that ostp the secondary public health crisis quick. >> do you believe the cdc should consider that a public health? >> i think every single person in america how we should key people in their homes. those are the discussions that will, but i'm certainly will not have to face them. >> the gentle man from wisconsin is recognized for five minutes. >> .
>> and then in the most recent conversation maybe that moratorium was unconstitutional by two courts. we are headed down the railroad tracks and the bridges out. by saying hired has done its job that that is not a lot of solace to an individual because the funds have not made it all the way from had to the individual or to the respective landlord. one of my concerns is the biden administration has rewritten the guidance and the rules four times. february, march, may and in
june. i have real concern we are headed down this railroad track and the bridges out that the moratorium has been ruled unconstitutional and although had has made those funds but that rewriting of the biden administration gives greater cause for concern but let me dive into an issue i had the cost of american families the cost to ignore that prices continue to increase at a rate faster than we have seen since 2008 and we know why this is happening. washington has dramatically increased spending in the fed will push the aggressive monetary policy and as a result of the misguided government schemes and the supply chain it takes even longer to resolve and as i
discussed the chairman power last week this might lead to a reset of our inflation expectations creating a self-fulfilling privacy this means higher prices for american families and the price increases the rising material cost adding $36000 the price of a new home are up 14 percent in the past year not just the economist but the american public is feeling it. also the rising groceries but the cost to live their life. as i read your testimony today the word climate appears five times and equity appears twice but i find interesting that you failed to mention the word inflation once out of 1300 words once in your opening statement and i worry about
the misplaced priorities that are out of step with the american families. to be direct if you or had have done the analysis of rising cost of working class americans to purchase a home quick. >> first let me say every economist in this country has said inflation will be temporary only a not something to be concerned about. . . . . the homebuilders told e
it was going up because of costs and services. i believed them. >> let me shift gears into how the policies and demand-side subsidies will also increase prices. one is the aggressive spending is increasing the prices that show up and make homes more out of reach for the average american but also as we look at the policies being put in place increasing demand-side prices you mentioned other subsidies to challenge renters. i know chair waters has also proposed expanding the program to make it and in an entitlement and i know broad demand subsidies fail to address one of the underlining problems in the housing market which could be the fact of the lack of supply.
we should be working to build more homes. what is increasing the supply? there are many issues to the cost of housing as well. >> the time has expired. thank you madam chair and secretary so nice to see you here. congratulations we are fortunate to have you. we would like to talk about climate change and specifically with the 2020 budget proposal for the targeted investments in energy efficiency this is
through the whole of government approach to climate and i am so excited to finally have a white house taking an approach my first question i am curious if you are satisfied that within the silos of hud you are coordinating in the same direction and across the other various governmental agencies because we have never had a whole of government approach to climate change before. working across the agencies, so i'm feeling good about the fact that we recognize and have elevated it and we are giving
that staff to do this right. >> we had a conversation and if you are comfortable answering the question, i'm curious whether 800 million in the housing stock for resiliency and efficiency meets your needs or is that the limit of what is possible? >> i don't think any of us believe that it does but what we do know is it is a great place
to begin. it's more than we have done as a nation so we are doing the very best we can to make a mark and to set the example if we put the kind of resources that it needs. >> the last question my colleagues have heard me talk before the cftc issued this report that pointed out among other things that there is a huge concentration of exposure in houston it's like 25% of all of the portfolios in new york and miami that are exposed to massive losses and how we should be thinking about that. that is outside of your agency but as the frequency of these increase, the disaster recovery program has become increasingly
important and caused 306 billion in damages in the united states. i guess i don't need to tell you that program has never been authorized so you have to come back for a notice on the appropriation. how would permanent authorization of the program help you do your job and better help communities recover after a disaster? it would be tremendous. >> thank you. i have no further questions and i will yield back. >> now recognized for five minutes. >> an overwhelming amount of funding to address homelessness goes to the continuum of care boards and those are responsible
for providing a holistic approach to end homelessness including housing, soup kitchens, job placement et cetera. it's my belief based on conversations in the local area that many of them, not all thatt many operate as homeless cartels with little oversight. they requested roughly $3.12 billion for the continuum of care programs next fiscal year and as an example it is ripe with conflicts of interest and the lack of oversight and effectiveness with the continuum of care boards the grand jury also mentioned the same people
who control these are the same people in charge of the organizations receiving the funding. do you feel they provide effective oversight of the boards and prevent waste, fraud and abuse? >> i do but i also do believe as well that we can do better. >> does hud have any plans, is there a plan of action in place and i would also ask would you agree allocating funding by some of the board members who also sit on the board of the nonprofit could be a conflict of interest? >> of course it would not be appropriate. a. >> would you commit to working with staff on this? that would be great and i appreciate that. one thing i constantly hear from local leaders in my district as
they often feel left out or forgotten when working with federal agents to address housing issues and by some estimates, writing a single federal grant application takes in nonprofit between 80 to 200 hours and any jurisdictions do not have the staff or resources to apply or compete. would you care to comment on plans your organization may have to reduce that burden and make it easier for those in my district to receive grants? >> that is one of the reasons we don't have the emergency rental money out because the smaller communities don't even know how to get it. they don't have the capacity once they receive it to figure out how to move it through the system so we are working with the community is particularly through technical assistance. i even met with the league of cities doing all we can to make sure we get to those communities because they don't get left out i agree with you 100%.
>> i would like to congratulate you. i think that you are missed by many colleagues. >> the gentleman from new york is recognized for five minutes. it's always a pleasure. the state of public housing has been plagued by disinvestment at the hands of the federal government. i would characterize as demolition by neglect and the fate of the housing authority but also to transition to clean
energy building systems a position that remains vacant what is the timeline for appointing region number two? >> it is in the process done by the white house personnel office, so i do not know the time frame. >> in charge of the housing authority by virtue of appointing both the ceo and coo but as you might know the relationship between the mayor and the housing authority was fundamentally altered by the administrative agreement among hud and the u.s. attorney for the southern district and the city of new york. the new mayor in january 22 does hud have any plans to restore the control of the housing authority.
>> they have some concerns as well that we need to take into consideration but i don't have a problem with it personally. when the subject of affordable housing is brought up, the question that comes to mind is affordable for whom and a concern that i have expressed is that if we expand housing supply without housing subsidy, then we run the risk of creating housing that is unaffordable to the lowest income americans. in my view the best path is the ending homelessness act that would universalize the section eight vouchers and of the money proposed how much do you envision going towards section eight? >> there are set-asides requesting 200,000 in addition
to the 200 billion. >> in the area of housing and segregated schools did you think that exclusionary zoning laws are a violation of the fair housing act? >> i'm not sure but i would suggest it is a violation of everything we stand for. a. >> are you concerned the administration recommends grant incentives to adopt land-use reforms. can they only take us so far and me to the enforcement of the fair housing act? >> i know how touchy that the subject is with local communities because they don't believe federal should government should tell them how to zone but i do believe it is a
problem and they are not going to look at it. it is a good way to approach it. >> i know that there is resistance but keep in mind there's resistance to the intervention when it comes to voting rights. states and localities preferred are without any accountability to the federal government, but the reason is to crack down on the complicity of the states and localities so i hope that is something that you explore in greater detail. a. >> we are looking all throughout hud historically. it's in every single agency of the federal government and we are no different so we are trying to address it. >> public housing has been underfunded. have you thought about how to bring greater accountability to the operation. is that a subject you've thought
about? i talked to the tenants every place i go to be honest and transparent and to do our part. my time is about to expire but always my pleasure. >> thank you very much. the gentleman from the florida is now recognized for five minutes. >> thank you madam chair and madam secretary it is a pleasure to see you. what i want to say is during my
tenure at the university i spent a lot of time in new york and chicago and ohio and atlanta with major housing conflicts and some of the things i don't understand there's been very little changes. i am a little concerned about we face a housing shortage but i am more concerned about the safety and the problems that i have been experiencing.
what is the way that we can improve the relationship so that we can keep up so that it can be a very safe condition? >> let me say first off it is nice to see you. that is our responsibility. we have 64 offices across the country. a staff of about 7,000 people, not nearly enough to do the work we do but big enough staff to do the work. we have to do our part and make sure inspectors are doing their jobs and local people are doing their jobs. and we also have to hold these management companies and landlords accountable and let them know we are not playing. we are going to make them keep up their end of the bargain and we are going to keep up hours. it's all about leadership and it's all about demanding that we
do the work that people are paying us to do. we do the work we have been charged to do by this congress. >> that is very good to hear and i was out earlier with a medical appointment. what can we do now in congress to alleviate a lot of problems? >> i didn't hear the last part. >> to help you all, what can we do in congress. >> you give us the flexibility to do our jobs. it's important for people to
understand they don't like flexibility but if you allow us to do the work that we know needs to be done we talk about regulations and restrictions but some of those are on us. we need the flexibility to do the work we know we should do. just be supportive. the other thing i think the biggest thing to do is to fund this properly. at one point they made up 7% of the discretionary federal budget. today it is less than 1% and the problem -- >> one of the things before my time runs out these issues come out about hud and have a reluctance to provide the resources they really need. they see the hardships and safe times. they don't realize that a lot of that has to do with what we do here and with that, madam chair,
i will yield back. >> thank you very much mr. lawson. >> i would now like to thank the distinguished witness for her testimony today. without objection all members will have five legislative days within which to submit additional questions for the secretary to the chair which will be forwarded to the witness for her response. i would ask the witness to please respond as promptly as you are able and without objection all members would have five legislative days within which to submit extraneous material to the chair for the inclusion in the record. the meeting is adjourned.
would proceed if debate were agreed to before negotiators work out the remaining details it's one of the few issues in washington where the parties can consistently work together and it's been years since congress passed a significant standalone investment. we areng hoping to change that next year. nearly a month ago a bipartisan group of senators came together along with a white house and agreed on a framework for bipartisan infrastructure bill so i moved to set up a process to consider that bipartisan framework. wednesday the senate will take the first procedural vote on the bill