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tv   After Words Robert Woodson Red White and Black - Rescuing American...  CSPAN  July 18, 2021 10:00am-11:01am EDT

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>> american history is being replaced by a polarizing version according to robert woodson. next on book tvs afterwards program, mister woodson discusses his critique of the 1619 project. with harvard law professor and author randall kennedy. afterwards is a weekly interview program with relevant guests host interviewing top nonfiction authors about their latest work. >> i look forward very much to our discussion of yourbook , red white and black, rescuing american history from revisionist and hustlers. why don't we begin by your telling the audience what you are offering in this book and why they should wanted. >> we were, we wrote this in response to the new york times publication of 1619, a
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series of esso essayist by black journalists and others led by joanna jones where in essence it redefined american history from 1776 through 1619 at the time when slaves, 20 slaves first arrived from the shores of virginia and it goes on to say the revolutionary war was fought to defend slavery. it also made false claims but it tried to redefine america as systemically racist and that all whites are villains and that all blacks are victims. and that it offers a very dire picture of the country. it also makes the false claims that the current challenges facing many in the black community today are a
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direct legacy of the shadow of slavery andjim crow . so since the messenger here was black, people bought the counter narrative should be also authored by a black. but we did not want to operate point by point debate or remodel. we wanted to offer an inspirational and aspirational alternative narrative that acknowledges what 1619 is that slavery has been underreported and poorly examined. we acknowledge that. but the conclusions that we reach are very different as was articulated in 1619. we brought together a group of scholars, journalists and activists. different ideological sites
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and so we authored these essays to offer, to establish the fact that 1776 is the birthday of america and values of our founders no matter how flawed have been the foundation upon which blacks were able to survive slavery and discrimination. the foundation of family, faith and an attitude of self-determination . so we felt that it was important for this book to be written to give an alternative vision to america about the plight of blacks that should never be defined by slavery or jim crow. we weremore than . >> tell us about your title. let me read the title again. red white and black. rescuing american history from revisionist race
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hustlers. there's a lot there. let's begin with red white and black. what is red whiteand black supposed to signify ? >> it signifies black americans are a part of this nation . that we are not some species set apart. and therefore, we reclaim the heritage and lacks fought in every war in the country and died. my father was a veteran of the first world war and died as a result of war related causes so it's supposed to signify the america that black americans are an integral part of this nation and deserve the results but we also know that there have been people who have profited off of racial grievance and in fact i left the civil rights movement in the 60s
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because i believe that a lot of those who suffered and sacrificed most did not benefit from the change. and i remember demonstrating outside of a white laboratories and when they desegregated a hired nine black phc tennis. when we have these brothers and sisters who joined us they said we were qualified not because of the sacrifices of people who were janitors, hairdressers, factory workers who did not benefit , i realized after two or three such encounters that i was in the wrong struggle. in fact, i have a headline in my authors that was written by the late bill rasberry headline in 1955 october 29, four negroes did not benefit from the gains of the civil rights movement and it goes on to list their other reasons and so i believe that there has been a bifurcation
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of the blackcommunity that existed since then and continues to this day . >> i still want to stick on your title for a bit. rescuing american history. >> american history as it was told after this unfolded in 1619 does not really talk about the two authentic picture of lacks. blacks are neverdefined by slavery . so some of our essays for instance talk, looks at the records of six major plantations at the end of slavery. to look at what was happening in the family. they found that 70 percent of slave families had a man and a woman raised as children and this tradition of two-parent households continued for a century
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afterwards. also when whites were out there at theirworst, blacks were at their best . when the ring that period, the literacy rate of blacks was like 75 percent and in less than 50 years that number reduced to 25 percent to the point where when the government sent workers out to a blacks and becoming literate they found there was very little they could do because the mediating institutions that have been established in the black church was already attacking that problem and they found nowhere in the history of the world that did a people move from a 75percent illiteracy rate down to 25 percent in such a short period of time . so again, rsa we also talk about how we achieve against the odds under very difficult circumstances. for instance in 1929, in chicago brownsville section
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when we were denied access to financing from banks, venture capital, black established 731 black owned businesses in 1929 with$100 million of real estate assets . and in almost every major city there was a kind of a black wall street but these stories of triumph in the face of opposition are not shared with the public. and so these essays were intended to share new insight . i spoke at the university of talladega in louisiana and when i shared with these students the histories of blacks achieved against the odds, one of the students came up and cheered and said mister woodson, why don't our leaders ever tell us the stories of triumph in theface of oppression ? whyaren't we ever told this ?
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>> just to finish it out, you were rescuing american history, you want to rescue american history from revisionist and racist race hustlers. >> race hustlers. sounds pretty uncomplimentary. it sounds pretty derogatory frankly. tell us what you mean by that. >> what i mean by there are people who profit from the suffering of people. those today who are denigrating the police and they do not as a consequence we have seen a rise in violence in these communities. but the violence is not occurring in the communities where a lot of theseadvocates were defining the police .
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and so i spent 80 percent of the people that we serve at the woodson center live in those at risk communities. they are the ones who are 80 percent of last, they are not supportive of the fund the police a lot of the so-called social justice warriors campaign on attacking the police and they make generous incomes now providing consulting servicesto school systems, to corporations in the name of equity , equity training. racial equity. hundreds of millions of dollars are being forced what i call a race grievance industry. you look at the poverty programs over the past 15 years, i did a lot of aware that money went.
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$22 trillion, $.70 of every dollar spent on poverty programs and not for. it went to those who serve the poor they are the professional service providers so we created a commodity out of four people where the question is which problems are fungible, not which onesare solvable . that's why after $22 trillion, blacks running these major urban centers, running these programs , why do we have the deterioration of these cities poverty and race were the solution, then why in states with $22 trillion spent, blacks running most ofthe systems are failing ? obviously concentrating on race is notthe answer . >> just a moment ago and in
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the book, you talk about race grievance. talk about the perpetrators of race grievance and are there circumstances in which placing a racial grievance is the right thing to do? >> absolutely. i fought in the civil rights movement when they were a legitimate racial issues. i've been to jail. i know what that's like, i lived inthe segregated south and i was in the military . i have 12 credits from the university of miami when i cannot walk around the campus because of segregation. and what we demanded then and also i know that if a black committed a crime against another black in the south, often they weren't even punished for it and we said
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that diminished black rights but if a black committed a crime against a white person they would be treated severely so we wanted to even the playing field. we said we should be judged by a single standard of justice and that's what we fought for. but now, this is changing to the point where when 8000 blacks were tellingother blacks , and we don't, there's no outreach but when 18 blacks are killed like in george floyd's case, we treat it as if it's an epidemic and they are outraged about it. and as a consequence it means that we then say that the police departments are an extension of white supremacy and now we vilify them and as a consequence they step back but a lot of the so-called leaders, they live in a
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secure community. they live in buildings where there's security or gated communities so many of the people are advocating for the fund the police and vilifying them don't have to live with the consequence of their actions. >>. >> you indicated in your last answer you are a person who lived a substantial part of your life under jim crow segregation. if you're from the deep south , you have seen up close racial oppression. okay. now, in your book, and your book your opening essay, there are places that you say listen, i'll just read. you say slavery and discrimination undeniably a tragic part of our nation's
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history and in another place you say that. do you think that that part of the story, that part of the american chronicle, using that part of the story is underplayed? >> absolutely. absolutely. elaborate. >> we need to tell the complete story of the horrors of slavery, although horrors ofdiscrimination . we need totell that story . but i believe that conditions that exist to them are not the conditions that exist now. i give the example when i talk sometime about a farmer coming to a stream with his mule and they get stream and it's going 20 miles per hour
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and he pulls them in and they washed downstream. they come to the same place a yearlater, the stream is six inches of the mule refuses to go in because the mule as poor judgment. many of us have good memories and we act as if conditions have not improved since the 60s . so we engage in strategies where we are act as if conditions have not improved. and our strategic position should adjust to our strategic circumstance. that's not happening. >> but i could imagine someone saying listen, don't we need to distinguish between what one thinks would be useful prudent productive policy today, policy in general. i can imagine somebody saying that's one conversation.
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the conversation about history, though they overlap, it's still an independent issue. and i can imagine someone saying with respect to american history, it is still the case that too many americans, particularly white americans are not sufficiently educated about some of the aspects that you just talked about. we don't need to go backto slavery . we don't have to go back that far. we can go back to subjects which are in your lifetime. when it what would you say to the persons that listen . our beef is that too many people do not know that in 1941, black people didn't even have the right to fight for democracy and what we want is for you know, our educational system to more
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fully educate everybody about the fullness of american history. its good side ugly sides to. what would you say to that person often mark. >> i would say you need to do that but we also need to say to ourselves that we are not defined solely by external barriers. it is dangerous and i think lethal to say the young people today that if you are dropping out of school it's not your fault. if you are carrying guns and destroying people it's not your fault. if you're having children out of wedlock it's not yourfault . there's nothing more lethal than telling a person that they are exempt from any personal responsibility. many of the people who are supposed to be social justice advocates and progressives continue this narrative that they are not responsible so white people change. there's little you can expect
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your life to improve area and that's what's the only response white people to become in the ages the oppressive. that's a dangerous i think self-defeating message. for people to say that somehow my destiny is determined by what othershave done let me give you an example . people are motivated when you give them victories that are possible, not constantly reminding them of injuries to be avoided. i'm sorry. so what we do is for instance we talk aboutthe education gap . in 1920 in the south the education gap in whites and blacks was three years. it was eight place eighth grade for whites, fifth grade 4 blacks and what was our response. do the julius rosenthal partnered with booker t. washington on an essay and the 5000 roads and schools.
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rosenwald put up capital money, 4 million and blacks raised the other 4million and participated . that was conscious at the roosevelt schools in 1940, the education gap road within six months. if we were able to close it when our classrooms were crowded, we would have half the budgets of white schools, if we were able to accomplish this closing of the education gap in the midst of virulent racism, when racism was enshrined in law , the question is why can't we do it today in institutions run by our own people for the past 40 years with a per capita expenditure of as high as itis for education ? don't we deserve the right to have these questions at least discussed? >> it seems to me there's a
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paradox in what you just said because on the one hand you're very much in the school of black history in which i was socialized. i associate it with people like carter g woodson and you know, people who focused on what we've done. what we've been able to overcome. so if you have a magazine and every month it has the first this, the first that , telling people about what they've been able to accomplish . i think a lot of good to that. here's the question i have for you though. isn't it true that in the past half century, there have also been a lot of firsts. wasn't there a lot of achievement in every phase of
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the civil rights movement, both those phases that you embraced and frankly phases may be that you were critical of. black people it seems to me have been coming along and making advances, including in the last several decades. including people who have ideas that you criticize. wouldn't youagree to that ? >> sure, but it's important to recognize that the biggest issue that i have is that when you generalize about any group of people and then you try to apply remedies to benefit those at the top instead of at the bottom. you cannot generalize about black people any more than you can white people or hispanics and when you do, i'll give you an example . right now in coca-cola, in
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this it gestures towards responding to a charge of institutional racism, so what is the remedy that coca-cola and other companies proposed? making sure that a third of all the attorneys who served the company are black. twitter, all those other companies. tell me how the hell that helps them black woman on public assistance living in public housing, howdoes it do that . the samewith women . the meeting movement got animated by a black woman seeking to help other black women in new york who were abused come together as a mutual support. so wealthy middle-class white women came in and sees this and made it to the meeting movement. and now the concentration is on some white women getting abused on the casting couch
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in hollywood. so what are the benefits that area for women, we in california, women will be required to serve on boards of directors. women who will be in corporate positions. tell me now how that helps the thousands of blacks and hispanic women that are in our prisons or in our community. but we have had an agenda to help women. so as long as we focus on groups, we will not help the people that i care about most and that is the least of god's children. the other problems with focusing on race is that when eva wears ablack face, it does not get challenged . i'll give you an example. while geraldo rivera a couple of years ago did a two hour documentary on sexual abuse of women inprison .
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every one of the victimized we interviewed were black. everyone is a victim was black. it didn't even provoke a single day of discussion . not a single day. because evil has to wear a white face before an attack get any attention. as long as that continues, it's always going to be detrimental so that's why i think we want to be emphasizing the ability of low income people instead of looking at life through the prism of race. because if these people like you and me will benefit. and people are looked on in these high crime drug infested neighborhoods, they do not benefit but we can walk around and look at what we've accomplished but it's coming after a sense of others in that commitment. >> one of the things that's interesting about what you
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just said and what you just said you accentuate very much at the very end of the introduction to the book. you quote adolph reed. and you quote adolph reed and he says identity is very much the ideology of professional management class. they prefer to talk about identity over capitalism and the inequities of capitalism. we have an atrocious wealth gap in this country. it's not a black and white wealth gap, it's a wealth gap and then he says some more. what i find interesting is a lot of people i think would call you. and maybe you call yourself a conservative. and many many of the people that you log their entrepreneurial verve. there's much about your profile that i think many
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people would type as conservative. yet you quote adolph reed. adolph reed calls himself a socialist. and he in this i mentioned anyway was very much agree with you and actually say that part of his criticism of the civil rights movement would be that it was oh yeah, it opened doors to people like you, people like me. but it didn't do as much as he would have liked for william julius wilson, the truly disadvantaged. what do you have to say about labels and it's sort of an interesting thing area on the one hand you're viewed as a conservative, on the other hand you're embracing the truly disadvantaged and your criticizing people for not helping out enough the truly
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disadvantaged. your reactions all that. >> your accusation says it all because i don't define myself as aconservative. i define my political philosophy as radical pragmatist . i am a cardiac christian. who is aradical pragmatist . i believe in and all of us, someone said it doesn't matter what people call you. it's what you responded to that's important . and we all have references. my reference groups are low income people that i have served all of my life. 80 percent of my closest friends have letters in front of their names, not in back of their names such as x this and ask that. and for the past few years, we have in the people like
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this all over the country and not once they are black, they are white. they are red. not once did the issue of racial antagonism, because most of the people in need of these communities are more concerned about their brokenness and their strategies towards redemption and they are political labels . so i will support anybody that puts in place policies and practices that elevate the least of god's children. and that will never be done as long as we tried to do this i looking at people through racial categories. the issue of american today is more class than it is race. i've brought together jd vance andclarence hayes . clarence hayes would be considered a conservative. or bernard anderson. my good friend bernie who is a part of our movement read
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as rule you stay out of politics because if you go to any state in the union and go into a low income community you cannot tell which political parties. bill bennett said when liberals look at the poor and black stacy a sea of victims and conservatives see a sea of aliens. and so the issue is i'm a radical pragmatist. all i want to know is whether or not the policies and practices you promote half the constant end of improving the lot of the least of these area .. >> ..
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we've got to be able -- the goal of the woodson center is to the racialized race. because as long as we are compelled to look at each other through the prism of race, the deeper, more troublesome problems that we're facing go on the test. >> host: okay. now i think there are a lot of folks who actually would agree with what you say but who also would agree with large parts of the people that you criticize pretty harshly. i have a question for you. why do you, for instance,, use this term in your title race
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hustler where you talk about the purveyors of racial grievance. the black community has people who think different things. you agree with some of them. you disagree with some of them. this thought within the black community, what would you say to someone who said in reaction to your book, i agree with what a lot of what mr. woodson says but i think he doesn't -- he does himself a disservice by putting down in a quiet personal way people with whom he disagrees. how would you respond to that? >> guest: i would say i try to approach people in a way so, i don't think that's the way forward. there's no one that i try to do
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mean. but if i had to be candid and have to be truthful, and that is somebody is doing something that is harmful to somebody, then i've got to speak out about this. i have been involved in sight of institutions where billions of dollars have been given to help the poor. i personally witnessed it time and time again, how that game occurs. i'm going to write, and because this is what bothers me, is when you have blacks who betray poor blacks, there's never any outcry about this. the mayor of detroit who for years had been stealing money from poor people in that city and he was able to run successfully for reelection using the race the fence. and there are thousands of low
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income pensioners and now who have their pension funds are short because of the 40 people he had as a part of his criminal empire who went to prison. there is no outcry in the black community. as far as i'm concerned someone like kilpatrick and others who use the positions of trust to convince themselves at the expense of poor people are worse than bigots. to me they are traitors. a traitor is somebody who you trust and they violated that trust in violation of you. so as far as i'm concerned, don't tell me that some big it -- some big it was my envy, i would say the greater in the is the people you trust to violate that trust. if that offends people then so
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be it. >> host: the example you just use was example of a person who, you know, he committed crimes. he was a person who was stealing for goodness sake. he was corrupt. that's not the sort of thing i was thinking about. what i was thinking about, let me tell you, mr. woodson, some going to go autobiographical here. my father, my father was a man from louisiana, was born in 1917. we saw the horrors of racial oppression in the deep south. he was a man who believed very much and personal responsibility and the responsibility of people who make it regardless.
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and he did. he married my mother in columbia, south carolina. they were part of the great migration. they came north. they raised three children, all three children college graduates, gainfully employed. my folks were churchgoing folks. i think that they're both people of blessed memory but if you admit them i bet you would like them. >> guest: i would love them try and look at the same time, let me say this about my father. my father never forgave the united states of america for what he viewed as it's betrayal of black people. and for them i think the sort of place where this crystallize, he was a soldier, a soldier during world war ii and he saw the united states of america black
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people in uniform. he never got over that. i'm not saying that he was right. i'm not saying he was wrong. i'm simply saying that's what he thought. there's elements of which you say in which you two would be high-fiving, but there's also elements in what he believed very much in sync with the 1619 project and the you are criticizing. black americans very pluralistic. what do we do? >> guest: let's just been the rest of this time talking about solutions. i wouldn't buy the book that we can do this as a confrontational instrument. we did it to say to people did you see the movie hidden figures?
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>> host: yes. >> guest: remember, i was in the space program so i took control. the moment in their were kathleen johnson said they're looking for elliptical orbit through hyperbolic orbit. she said made who are looking in the wrong place. she went back and got a book on geometry and applied it. maybe we need to go back and look at what we did successfully under worst conditions to a clue as to how we can apply some of those old values to a new reality. so what the woodson center is proposing is that we need to call a moratorium on whining about white folks and let's come together and learn from how we were able to build hotels or 100 universities and schools back then, how 20 20 blacks were n slaves and died millionaires, robert smalls even went back and
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purchased the plantation of which he was the slave and took in the family of the slave master as an act of radical grace. there are other examples. your dad lived by the principle principles, but despite his feelings that's what i'm talking about. what we wrote these essays to inspire these people to use it as the foundation to rebuild our community. that's what we want, not to engage in a debate about -- no. we ought to become a together and talk about how we can rebuild. the leading cause of death among kids in the inner city is homicide. in appalachia the leading cause of death is prescription drugs. in the silicon valley a teenage suicide rate is six times the national average. so what we're going to be doing, we have 2500 black mothers, voices of black mothers who lost their children to urban violence, they are supportive of
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the police. they had come together for mutual aid and support. we are going to bring them together with those appalachian mothers and also with the mothers from silicon valley but so that we can discuss strategies to fill that empty hole in the hearts of our children that's causing them to value life to the point where you want to take their own or take someone else's here these are more critical problems are facing but we can do that if we're constantly divided by race. so that's why the wit and center in 1776 once to the racialized race so we can use our energies and our resources and our best thinking about how do we arrest the moral and spiritual freefall that is consuming us and destroy our children. >> host: i i was very happy do
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you mention robert smalls, , lie i was born in south carolina so you're talking about a south carolinian, and i like that. in your book there's certain figures, in fact, in your discussion thus far you would mention certain figures and the two really stand out. one is frederick douglas. you quote douglas a number of times and douglas, talk, well talk from slavery. the other person you talk about or you mention with tremendous respect, booker t. washington who of course wrote up from slavery. who are others? let's say in the post world war
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ii era, since 1945, who would you come so making up to you and said listen, i'm hearing what you are saying. it's resonating with me. who are people. they could even be journalist. they could be historians, they could be political scientists, they could be whatever, thinkers. who are the people that you would urge people to read and pay attention to? >> guest: well, some of them are my contemporaries. i really think pastor buster source in somerset, new jersey, would certainly be one. frank read in baltimore. there's a number of, i have a whole list of graduate students, willie peterson in cincinnati, ohio. most of the leaders are not national figures. they are local. there are thousands, there's one woman whose deceased, she was
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profiled on 60 minutes. she went into public housing development and turned it around to the point where the drug dealers were driven out and market great house was built right across the street. to be great in washington, d.c. another deceased local leader. there are hundreds of inspiring grassroots leaders and pastors who are doing phenomena work, corey brooks in chicago. there are thousands of indigenous leaders who are what i call antibodies and jokesters. my book, the triumph of joseph, joseph was important because even though he was treated unjustly like her father he never said came to bitterness. he ended up not only saving his brothers who betrayed him but also those who enslaved in. here's an example of radical
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grace. so it was important for people not to get caught up in resentment because of hatred and resentment, animosity consumes you. some said it's like taking poison expecting the other person to die. and so what we're trying to emphasize, we wanted to inspire people to come together to look beyond race and focus more on upward mobility of those at the bottom here and yes, use our talent instead of always fighting each other or, i don't want to engage in the tribal warfare that is in existence today but for people who profit off of antagonism, and they are the race hustlers. there are legitimate people can do better who don't act better. i call them, if it angers them,
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fine, but if it provokes this kind of discussion, and i've accomplished something. >> host: one of the things that's interesting, so i asked you for names and it seems to me the one issue lurking is the whole question of what do we call, what do we consider leadership? because i asked you the question and you went to local people. frankly, i bet most of the people that you mentioned, many of the people in our audience will not have heard of, and lest they were in that locale. >> guest: right. >> host: in fact, you used the term indigenous people. you talk about people sort of being in a locale, local people. i think there's a sort of disconnect because often times when people, frankly in my mind, when people ask about leaders
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i'm thinking about national leaders. they are thinking about people who are at universities like mine. they are thinking of people who are in the big newspapers, the big time columnists. so the whole question seems to be one of the things you are getting at is you actually want to nurture and also shine more light on and lift up a different type of leader. it's not you are against these are the people, fine and dandy, but there's another type of leader who it seems to me you are saying that doesn't get enough play, maybe doesn't get enough support. react to that. >> guest: you are absolutely right. that's what i want to do. we need to really study -- in other words, the principal our market economy shopper, or 3% of
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people in our market economy are entrepreneurs to generate 70% of all the jobs here so iteration come from within. a students come back universities and see students come back to endowment because smart people have to have all the answers before the act and would act, the opportunity is gone. so i look at that same paradigm and say that if somebody was able, for instance, we went into an area of washington, d.c. where there were 53 gang murders in two years. i trained by social entrepreneurs in washington called the alliance of concern men, ex-offenders to of the trust and confidence of the community. a boy was killed. they brought in 16 16 young o my office downtown and they
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worked on a truce and it took the same young men who were terrorizing the community and turned them into ambassadors of peace. as a consequence we did have a single gang murder for 12 years. we harvested these principles that we learned from this and have applied it to other cities. so that's what i mean by leadership, and it occurs -- for instance, steve jobs created an instrument that now 60% of apples income, but it didn't exist eight years ago. because that's a local innovation can occur. i'm hoping it local grassroots leaders are able to stop 53 murders can reduce it, that it will provide a testbed, a a ml for what can happen throughout the nation.
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>> host: how do you scale something up like that? the united states of america is so huge. we're talking 300 million people over this gigantic landmass, all of these cities, the cities and also rural areas, we've got problems everywhere. how do we mobilize the social, financial, all of the different sorts of resources that would be necessary, that would be needed to effectively address source of problems that are most on your mind? >> guest: that is the best question, because that is where we are at this point where we are seeking that kind of help from harvard america who know how to grow business. we have a group in washington, d.c., the alliance of concern
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men, that for three to four months they went into one of the most violent areas of washington, d.c., and for three or four months there was not a single violent incident because of their intervention. we ought to have been racing to bear with resources and technical assistance to answer that question to say, let's find out what you did, how you did it. let's provide you all the resources you need and the technical skill that it takes, the people who know how to market to a larger audience, we want to partner with them so that we and the public relations aspect, we are the mobilizing around a spark of innovation that occurs in a local community. so that's one of the challenges we are facing. we are at the point now where we are seeking, reaching out to people with resources, not just money but the wherewithal to
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partner with us. because we are social entrepreneurs but we need to join together with business entrepreneurs so that we can answer just that question. >> host: you mentioned business. you mentioned companies. what about government? >> guest: government as far as i'm concerned god is in this mess but government does have a role not a leading role. because in order for entrepreneurs to function, you need the maximum amount of flexibility. so that you can address that. in fact, you can look on, if your listeners were to go on youtube and put in violence free from milwaukee you see an example of how one is able to go into, and also this is a commercial for of the book, lessons from the least of these, is a book that i published that
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has ten would sonya sony d principles that answer the questions you just raised. how to identify legitimate grass roots, how to provide assistance to them, and then how can we rebuild our culture from the bottom up and the inside out. >> host: mr. woodson, we only have time for one last. let me put it to this with is anything you would have liked for me to have asked you? is a anything sort of in your mind about the subject that you would like to convey to our audience before we have to wrap it up and go? >> guest: yes. i want to say that there's a real urgency for us to end this racial strife and tribalism, because if blacks are able to play race, so can white people.
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i think that unless we were able to push back against this racial as they should and pushing these limits, it's not going to be long before whites begin to respond in kind. and i think that we could be, we could face violence in america on the level that we've never seen before. so there's a certain urgency that we have to move beyond race. i just think there's an urgency to what we are about. >> host: of course it would be many people would jump in and say what do you mean whites might start using race? whites have been using race and are using race. >> guest: whites are not -- this is where we are not -- whenever i hear about an asian being racially assaulted in california somewhere and they
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don't mention the race of the perpetrated, i know it's a black person. 80-90% of the attack on asians are being done by blacks at the press will not report that because it does not fit the racial narrative. and it's a shame that we are being misled because there's an incentive not to be truthful about what is happening in the country. but whites are not attacking blacks. we are killing our children. they are not come into our community shooting our children. 94% of the murders are blacks on blacks. >> host: on that note, and, of course, we could go on for hours, this is a huge subject, but thank you very much for this conversation and i look forward
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it sometime to being able to meet you face to face. >> host: . >> guest: . i hope so. you are a good interviewer. >> host: thank very much. be well. >> guest: thank you. >> afterwards is available as a podcast or to listen visit or search c-span's "after words" on your podcast app and watch this and all previous afterwards interviews at click the afterwards button near the top of the page. >> weekends on c-span2 aren't intellectual feast. every saturday american history tv documents america's stories and on sundays booktv brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. funny for c-span2 comes from these television companies and more including wow. >> today the factual and internet connection something no one can live without so wow is
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therefore our customers with speed, reliability, value and choice. now more than ever it all starts with great internet. wow. >> wow along with these television companies support c-span2 as a public service. >> there's a look at some of the best-selling nonfiction books according to amazon.
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>> some of these authors have appeared on booktv and you can watch the programs in time at >> during a virtual event hosted by the manhattan institute philosophy professor offered his thoughts on the importance of free speech. >> the debate on free speech is this debate on whether we should have kind of legal protection for free speech. so we have the first amendment which guarantees the legal protection for free speech. what is much more interesting though is the kind of pressures people you to not disclose their opinions and that's really, that's what i i focus on in te book so yes, exactly.
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so it's increasingly relevant because a recent poll shows most people are afraid to share their opinions especially when it comes to contested issues. and yet what are the kind of disturbing patterns this brings up more as people more educated, so the more higher educated people here more hesitance about talking about their ideas. one poll actually shows this is three times at its height compared to the red scare. the red scare was mccarthy and so on in the '50s. a number of people said they are hesitant to speak their mind or say what they think. that number has more than tripled now. one question that's been underexplored, what does this mean for humanity going forward? what does this mean for policymaking? that's really what i think is the interest questing to me is.
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we find ourselves in this kind of situation where, there's serious costs to expressing your opinions. people don't really -- it's not like a irrational fear. i don't like to use the word cancel, but that's the kind of way people been talking talking about it. so there is this fear, what will my colleagues think? what will my boss think? they are real fears, , and so wt should people do as individuals? that's kind of my focus in the book. >> you can watch the rest of this program at search for hrishikesh joshi or the title of his book "why it's ok to speak your mind." >> next on booktv, stacey abrams voting rights activists in 2018 democratic nominee for governor of georgia discusses her suspense novel "while
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justice sleeps" set within the halls of the u.s. supreme court. the economic historian jonathan levy traces evolution of american capitalism from the colonial era to the present and later robert woodson argues american history is being replaced with a polarizing version. that all starts now on c-span's booktv. find more at or consult your program guide. here's stacey abrams. >> this evenings featured author of course is stacey abrams here to discuss her new thriller "while justice sleeps." states will be in conversation with our own joshilyn jackson, the author of nine books herself including this year's mother may i. if you like to continue the work of the decatur book festival, you can donate through the link in the chat. they would really appreciate that. i would like to say thanks again for joining us tonht


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