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tv   Hearing on Improving DHS Management Operations  CSPAN  July 16, 2021 10:59pm-1:40am EDT

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>> the committee of homeland security will come to order it is meeting today to receive testimony on securing the homeland reforming dhs to meet today's threat without objection the chair is authorized to declare the committee and recess at any point. today the committee is meeting to discuss homeland security and to refocus the mission for the most serious threats of facing our nation.
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this conversation comes at a time with the 20th anniversary. established in 2003 to prevent and respond to terrorist attacks within the united states. since then the range of threats the department must manage has extended well beyond terrorism. today, dhs is task with confronting with the coronavirus to my domestic extremist and it is critical as full threats facing the country and under president trump that focus for immigration and border security extending with the other mission.
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with that operational damage carrying out the last administration failed policies. son have embrace the notion that dhs must be dismantled but that is not the answer. instead we need to enhance accountability and transparency to earn america's trust and earlier this month to ensure the department has a strong integrated core to secure the homeland while ensuring accountability and transparency and protection of american civil rights and civil liberty this legislation is a recommendation made by those have closely examined the challenges facing dhs including the center of new american society the atlantic council and the center for
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american progress off the organizations identify the need for of increased oversight for law enforcement operations. for example by creating to oversee such operations. additionally seeking a greater role the office of civil rights and civil liberties to strengthen constitutional protections of dhs policy programs and activities. also to recognize improve the morale of the dhs workforce must be a top priority. the dhs reform act authorizes several programs aimed at identifying and addressing the causes of low employee morale. representatives from these organizations i look forward
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to discussing in greater detail for transforming dhs. as the department looks to address emerging threats and long-standing challenges the homeland security stands ready to assist but then that fall authorization deal to reflect the oversight finding beyond a few nearly tailored areas to have jurisdiction over parts of dhs and no single committed is involved in working to change that with the house leadership and other committees that jurisdiction is on recommendations of the commission that is yet to be
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resolved and that department over the last 15 years it is long past time for it to be addressed and to be successful it needs to have the confidence of the american people in the process of the homeland security enterprise alex forward to the witnesses and members how we can reform dhs to do just that. with that i recognize the ranking member, the gentle man from new york for an opening statement. >> thank you for raising that issue. thank you for holding this timely hearing to discuss reforms for department of homeland security and think our distinguished witnesses to take the time to appear before the committee.
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approaching the 20th anniversary of september 11 and this committee spans the crossroad we can either choose to work together to successfully enact we need for changes to benefit this country or we can choose to go about business as usual leaving communities vulnerable 20 years ago congress established homeland security by combining 22 separate federal agencies. the intent was to ensure that the many threats of the american people and to prevent 9/11 from happening to this day homeland security has been successful for many terrorist attacks while consistently to new and evolving threats to the homeland at the next honest to hear from my colleagues on the other side of the aisle for budget cuts to critical missions to
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protect americans lives every day i cannot express enough how dangerous i believe this rhetoric to be all there is no doubt the department will continue to evolve the functions that are secured on —-dash critical after 9/11 homeland stood up in haste facing a distressed nation and as a result still faces growing pains to respond to challenges. for examples in its inception there's a common vision of 22 separate agencies largely operating independently with policies and cultures it also struggled to support functions essential i —-dash support functions of acquisitions and it systems all of which are on the gao although they've made
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progress are still more the to do homeland security financial system modernization is back on track in key to ensuring the homeland can support of those components efficiently with taxpayer dollars. however homeland security is with other support functions the best position to achieve the critical mission and also has made progress to address new and evolving future threats to the homeland such a cybersecurity. in 2018 homeland security and congress took action by establishing the cybersecurity infrastructure security agency to act as the cybersecurity agency and then the private sector last week i held the brand - - a roundtable to
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discuss how we can prevent future attacks from local businesses and government and an overwhelming take away with how much the stakeholders for what it provides now is the time to double down but there is no other option cybersecurity is a preeminent national security to the homeland security threat that we face is dizzying to think of the string of cyberwe've seen over the last several months for campaigns on federal networks and those against the pipeline and food supply and transit systems in critical it service. we mustn't continue the full court press. today homeland security continues to make human capital progress as part of a cyberworkforce also exceeded
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200 new like 50 percent calling it the largest cybersecurity and history the department's authority to hire top talent with that legacy mindset to fully support those systems they need sustained robust funding to carry out the mission of revolving threats the secretary has acknowledged they might fully degree but it would be hard pressed to do so with that funding to that and the need to be a 5 billion-dollar agency in the next five years. today the nation faces threats from 9/11 that we need dhs to transform better and homeland security that can identify and mitigate and prevent the new threats from the price from
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global power and influence and instability from organized crime in the recent years homeland security operations have been hamstrung by vacancies and turnovers and senior positions in this also must change to prepare for the future security of homeland looking forward of a thorough assessment of what is doing now and if there's something it should be doing bad it isn't and what should we do about that? homeland security review and exercise a strategy by law every four years that dhs is not been able to accomplish since 2147 years ago. unacceptable the entire homeland security leadership needs to commit to this effort the administration to commit to ask the hard questions to
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contribute to making homeland security into the department the american people want and need responding to disasters and a steward homeland security plays a vital role to engage in commerce and navigating increasingly complex interconnected worlds homeland security a struggle to earn the trust of the american people integrating the department to sure insurance number left to respond and his paramore on - - paramount for security to the nation. so let's roll up our sleeves and figure out what we need to do to protect the american people better than we do right now. thinking mr. chairman. i yield back.
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>> . >> other members of the committee remind me and to the rules opening statements may be submitted for the record and may operate according to the guidelines of the ranking member calling in remote procedures. now we'll common our next witness senior fellow at the center for new americans security entitled reforming the department of homeland security for enhanced oversight and accountability.
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director the future of dhs at the atlantic council the deputy assistant secretary for counterterrorism policy in this katrina morgan acting vice president for national security and international policy at the center for american progress to redefine homeland security a new framework dhs to meet today's challenges the director from the institute of cyberand critical infrastructure previously directed president bush and homeland security without objection the full statement will be inserted to
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summarize a statement for five minutes. >> chairman thompson members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today on the topic of homeland security for the past two years i read the project for new americans security with a specific emphasis on law enforcement and intelligence and immigration aspects of the work of grateful for the opportunity to share the insights of this project and to work with this committee going forward in connection with this important oversight in legislative responsibility. i'm particularly delighted to be joined by my friends and colleagues all of them have meaningful insights and expertise to share with the committee. as i mentioned in my written testimony the 9/11 counterterrorism and counterintelligence lawyer as a result of that formative
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experience i have zero interest in going backwards and undoing 20 years of changes to the laws and institutions that kept the country safe from the scale of september 11 however 2021 is not 2001. the threats the country faces today are not the same. cyberaggression, domestic terrorism, national disaster and gun violence all affect americans on a daily basis we must adapt to current and emerging threats well internal oversight and accountability and in short i don't want to dhs to meet today's threats but the legislative framework organizational capability and expert workforce that is ready to meet tomorrow threats time heartened by the committee's willingness to take on this important work. our institutions are not keeping up a nation was unprepared to a global pandemic killing over 600,000
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americans as someone who had a front row view of the bipartisan action that congress and the federal government took to response of the 9/11 attack inefficiency response in early 2020 is impossible to ignore dhs was created to protect the country from foreign threats it appears to have no meaningful role to mobilize the response to the pandemic across the country is another example of the insufficiency to protect our democracy not those that threaten the constitutional order and personal safety of congress on january 6 although i don't subscribe it was an intelligence failure the homeland security apparatus could've done more with the secret service to have national operations had it been designated and subjected to rigorous planning and
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protocol the events were not have reached that level of severity better production of the transfer of power primarily things to those capital police and the metropolitan police department with the capital and members of congress as well as other public officials in this environment of political violence i review those protective measures for improvement with a component of a newly farm select committee on the leadership with the reform act of 2021 my written testimony and then to be reflected in the bill. to pave the way for a better dhs i hope you consider these recommendations to highlight just a few.
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and then to have the associate secretary of leadership capacity of the may 2020 report and also other independent reviews of my colleagues today. landed they cannot do their best work of the statutory mandate and with the threat of a prior era updating a statutory mission with that persistent morale issues that i know the committee is interested in. with those considerable law enforcement they were not created to serve as the police force with the states and localities or a domestic intelligence service concepts roundly rejected even after the 9/11 attack and in
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testimony thank you very much for the opportunity to testify and work with this committee. >> and now you may summarize your statement for five minutes. >> . >> thank you for the opportunity to testify. it is the third-largest cabinet in the cabinet 200,000 employees and the missions include the most important challenges. many dhs missions need attentions which is 2020 having been a particularly tumultuous year.
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but the atlantic council itself and of those individual experts thank you the senior advisory board and acting secretaries and those experts of homeland national security contributing to our findings and recommendations. and then how to support the dhs workforce with the unique organizational challenges. but then to offer my endorsement the dhs reform act of how dhs needs to be reformed to make the department more protected from nonmilitary threats any
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comprehensive assessment starts with the need to refocus its mission all reports you have been reading, agree that said the most urgent threat when we released in september 2020 was the pandemic and the greatest long-term threat comes from climate change and dhs should prioritize work in these areas i'm obviously very pleased to see the biden administration is taken both of these challenges with the priority that it deserves. one other important point i need to make is the report calls for dhs to take the overall mission to defend the american people from nonmilitary threats. and includes protecting american democracy from cyberattacks.
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protecting critical infrastructure, election security, misuse of social media platforms, grouped together under the umbrella of protecting american democracy. and with the other missions and as you said it keeps adding missions but none of the current missions go away. with the department of defense and men and women in uniform who lead the notions against military threat dod against non- kinetic threats so the bumper sticker version is we fight and win america's wars. dhs needs to think against nonmilitary threats this is what dhs needs to move towards.
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and when the trust of the american people how to take on what it does it also needs to modernize the approach to public-private partnerships because that's the way dhs contributes tackling climate change morale is another important challenge. let me asked the court to put up slide number two for the committee to take a look at. one thing we have noted dhs is ranked last in the annual surveys of employee morale since 2010. the data for the september october 2020 dhs is still last with agencies in the federal government. but our analysis shows morale is not a hopeless task but far from it. frank taylor between 2014 and
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2017 immigration and customs enforcement at the us secret service between 2017 and 2019 if i can ask the court to show slide three. was citizenship and immigration services fell off a cliff they fell from 90th to 339-2411 the reasons for the drop deserve a hearing of their own dhs had other success stories and the components with their response to the covid-19 pandemic and protecting the 2020 election shows morality and improves because of a combination of good leadership and this
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committee's hearing on may 4th what the recommendation to be the first on they need to be prioritize. and it's important now to ensure the necessary funding. >> but the better coordination of policy and resources to establish with that law enforcement activities without micromanaging and dhs needs to integrate civil liberties and
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what they said about congressional oversight also needs to be
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focusing on terrorism and immigration enforcement with a never again attitude toward another 9/11 style attack coming at the expense focusing on other missions. after 20 years after 9/11 and how we can recalibrate that mission.
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into american safety as well as beyond our borders spirit temperatures and rolling blackouts. >> and the milestones in the largest wildfire in history. >> . >> spirit you have the opportunity to refocus the resources has proven to have been most effective to add real value to americans to study and travel. americans need dhs to recalibrate and with the external threat.
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>> and record number of passengers with the opportunity to reimagine but that means to keep america secure the new dhs vision clearly articulated and to facilitate in addition to detecting and securing and preventing and over 20 years recalibrating to a safety and services model all across the united states. and to have a noble mission to keep a safe as a country of welcome. >> with those challenges and opportunities facing the nation working together to
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have more value to americans. >> . >> before i close i want to emphasize two things dhs has the potential to meet today's moment and second so we agree on several areas for reform i would encourage this committee to focus on areas where we are speaking in unison to highlight just a few, we agreed dhs is critical to the prosperity of americans and should be reformed rather than miss meant on - - dismantled
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rather to keep the nation and secure that dhs needs an elevated role for civil liberties and american and agreed to more oversight and restraint for the law enforcement function. thank you for the opportunity to testify today and i look forward to hearing your questions. >> thank you very much. spent thank you distinguish committee members i would like to thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today progress my colleagues have said the array of threats has evolved substantially over time and then to encounter the threats.
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and for the proactive approach to tackle these important reforms so start with context nothing as fancy as my colleagues before me and then to be established as we have made clear so with the largest reorganization since the national security act of 1947. and at the same time dhs has and continues to have and the most pressing is cyberthe system and two double down efforts. but in addition to them. consider the events of the
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past six months alone in which we have seen a rash of incidents from solarwinds and the microsoft exchange act. and other ransomware attacks that preceded it including us pipeline and the food supply. they are hitting epidemic proportions targeting entities from schools to businesses. no one and nothing is off limits i was pleased to see the ransomware campaign it's important for the government to speak with one voice and doing everything together dhs must be well structured and well-funded leadership is a vital first step meaningful maturation of the department requires a post to be filled i think the confirmation earlier this week was an important first step.
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next we should consider codifying the director to a five-year term elevating the role to ensure continuity across the organization. fortunately congress and dhs have undertaken significant actions in response to cyberattack with the cyberresponse and recovery fund to ensure preparation and funding of the ability to coordinate asset response. dhs must continue to support the principal partners state and local territorial governments and the private sector as cyberhas with the security enterprise it is ultimately about finding meaningful ways to enhance and enable those on the frontlines. this requires people to meet the mission with the cyberworkforce of the caliber and size needed beyond is an urgent priority. the most effective way to get
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their of the multi- pronged approach with k-12 and postsecondary initiatives. so to upscaling veterans to recruit a more diverse cybersecurity workforce. to fulfill potential as interagency partner and must be strengthened and the national risk management center should be codified i'm happy to get into that during q&a moreover the current approach to the.gov securities to scattershot we should play more central role the 2021 national defense authorization act hunting for threats and efforts substantially more visibility perhaps the area term greatest impact in the near-term is to finally
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translate the nouns into the verbs this is a top list of priorities for us in the cybercommission this year so our real driver with us on the commission and then newly created cyberplanning office should be serving as a center of gravity for public-private coordination and cyber-based activities priorities set by the new national cyberdirector. the commission also recommended a joint collaborative environment be established by law for the purpose of sharing cyberthreat data among federal entities in between us government and private sector a national economic security urgently demand greater visibility across the entirety of the supply chain i'm happy to get
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into that at greater length that q&a but finally, the commission proposed the most critical infrastructure systemically important be subject in return for some liability protection and direct intelligence support from the intelligence community happy to see it good rash of activity around the hill and incident reporting of an eye to command the ranking member for his five pillars this will get us a long way to where we need to be. enclosing the department must be calibrated to adapt to the cyberimperative that is continuing to evolve and to be provided with the requisite authority and accountability and resources to get the job done especially in relation to
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the most critical infrastructure. mr. chairman it's always a privilege to speak to this committee i look forward to any questions. thank you. >> thank you very much i think the witnesses for their testimony each will have five minutes to question the witnesses i now recognize myself. one of the problems we have had long-standing is the morale of the workforce. can you suggest to the committee anything we could do to get the morale off the
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bottom? a lot of us are concerned. but if the workforce is not what it needs to be in terms of morale and those are some challenges with it. >> i do think couple of things with respect to the mission i recommended congress update the statutory missions of the department there's operational reasons and around reasons to do that four out of seven main security ask pertain to terrorism and yet we know that is out of sync with the day to day activities. i do think if we mission of
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the department is mandated if employees could see their daily work reflected in that mission, that would be helpful. i also think one of the issues with the department that we recognize is that the independent agencies within the department operate very autonomously with less oversight structure and less common culture and in the roundtable with experts various former officials all have said they tried to do unity of culture but then the next secretary it falls off so it has never been able to grow throughout the course of the department i think a joint duty program would be useful so individuals as they are
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arriving in their career rotate amongst the different components and get a better understanding of the colleagues and other missions of the department and then start to create a core of future leaders have a better appreciation for their colleagues missions and operations throughout the rest of the department. >> thank you very much. >> we took a look at the specific components that have the greatest morale problems and had in mind the successes other components have had because there are lessons that can be applied. in the case of tsa addressing the low pay and workforce issues where people perceive promotions are handed out unfairly and then good work is not recognized and rewarded, that is something your committee and you and
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others have taken a direct interest in with the tsa workforce act so that will be one of the most important steps this committee could take to help. i wreck recommend one - - the efforts season get there are resources you need to implement that cbp is a little bit more difficult if confirmed by the senate there will have to be a number of steps taken to deal with the legacy of an era in which customs border patrol hired a lot of people but the perception is not all are up to the level of professionalism the department needs to have. some things identified professional's nation i if done right will increase the pride cbp officers feel about their mission. >> thank you very much.
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i need to try to get to the other witnesses before my time is up. >> very quickly, i agree updating the mission and instituting a joint program are excellent suggestions. the one thing i would focus on and emphasize is the politicalization of the department is a driver. one of the ways that committee can help address that is to ensure there are more career civil servants in leadership positions across the department because that is what helps create a buffer to help reduce the sharp political shift between administrations that impact day today what your mission is and how well you thank you serve that mission.
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>> thank you very much. >> you are muted. >> i will be brief have never had an unspoken thought that is rare so i really thought i agreed with everything she said she had out of the park but the mission by definition that if something bad happens that's a some people define success if we can find ways to put that equation, that is critical. but when it comes to cybera couple of points i raised is we need a more diverse cybersecurity workforce more women and people of color to bring in the numbers that are staggeringly low and there are ways that can change in terms
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of morale. bottom line i know you're running out of time i wanted to add that one.one cybersecurity. thank you. >> thank you all for testifying today i want to credit what was said. [inaudible] but it has been a major problem we have limited time so i do want to talk about. [inaudible] >> we are having some problems
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i cannot hear him. we will come back to the ranking member. the chair recognizes the gentle lady from texas for five minutes. >> good morning chairman and to the witnesses i'm glad to hear one of the witnesses highlight 9/11 send those of us that were senior members were here and were here for the creation of homeland security. as we began to look at reform, the witness from the atlantic mentioned covid that not the actions of january 6 of domestic terrorism.
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do we believe that should be a crucial component of homeland security and to be focused on what homeland security can offer because it was discombobulated this organized response the fbi was completely absent completely the director and the national security domestic security agency. somebody wants to take that answer i appreciate the gentle man from the atlantic. >> very much is one of my top issues it's what we highlighted even in september 2020 with more time and attention from dhs than it had been getting. all of that was driven home by what happened on january 6 we've taken a very detailed
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look at the events of that day and dhs, while not responsible for collecting but it is responsible for connecting the dots. dhs and ina in particular should have done a much better job to bring that forcefully to the attention of leadership in law-enforcement agencies forcefully if necessary they found themselves on the front line that day there is a lot of things dhs could've done better and differently. >> thank you you offered reforms do you have any that relates to a quicker response or greater presence of dhs on a day like january 6 monday we hope never to see that again in america? >> dhs could have had two important roles in mitigating the day of january 61st the role of intelligence and analysis we at the center have
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a new report out specifically on proposals for congress to think about to reform department of intelligence and analysis so that office functions better. right now it's not living up to its expectations nor doing the job it is expected to do. in addition there is a physical security component i suggest was a designated national security event under the leadership of the department the security itself would have been much improved. >> my time is up. >> that should have been done ahead of time? >> yes congresswoman. >> as it relates to the pandemic, there was multiple confusion of doctors trying to cover themselves when fema became involved as a singular agency things began to turn the corner do we have thoughts
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on reinforcing fema strengthening to gave the administrator cabinet status and the problems we have where fema cannot work with local communities? can somebody take that point up? >> i will go ahead and try. i thank you are absolutely right the role of fema has played and will play in the future will be bigger and more central than in the past one of the things is how far fema has come in terms of of what i envision long-term is a fema that functions to augment department and agencies and to build institutional capacity to be used so we are not constantly relying on our
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military to aid in nonmilitary and nondefense emergency response if we build more of that capacity within fema it would be to the good weather it needs to be cabinet level agency itself come i think a strengthened dhs component could be effective without a cabinet level role. but i am 100 percent agreement the role needs to be larger in a reimagined dhs. >> with a response to the diverse workforce tsa officers to be diverse across the board how valuable is it to have a more diverse workforce? can someone give a quick answer? does anyone want to take up that importance about diversity?
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we find that very challenging. >> you are right. this is what dhs has struggled in some areas to achieve. it does need to be the priority that the secretary and the team are giving it to increase diversity in important areas. >> your time has expired. the chair rate recognizes the ranking member. >> thank you mr. chairman i apologize for the technical difficulties. thank you for accommodating me. i appreciate your comments on them around issue and the need for diversity and the department as a whole. i do a precious time but a few years ago we never would have been able to anticipate how important this department
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would be going forward and it sounds like we need to look at the budgetary budget so that agency over the next five years has congress been able to make such an investment to make sure that cissa returns? >> i just seeing your praises ad nausea and in all sincerity thank you for your leadership recognizing the significance of cissa and your prioritization around cybersecurity i genuinely believe this is the crux of
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dhs going forward and that country expects nothing less. basically any policy recommendation has to meet three different criteria of the marriage of authority do we have clear lanes in the road? accountability is there appropriate oversight and with cissa as a national cyberdirector and this committee and congress and resources after a policy without resources is rhetoric so i do think that number sounds good to me. i can give you the empirically based answer but we will need more resources and we expect cissa to do more to be the quarterback inside the federal government and do more across the.the network and in reality
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it's about the public-private partnership. it's about enabling and empowering those of the first offenders and this is where i dc the most impact and i hope we are held to account to achieve these objectives. >> i agree with the public-private partnership and the need to exchange in particular also one other thing. you served on the council for many years with the current secretary disbanded it. >> thank you congressman i will not make this about me
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but at the end of the day the advisory council needs to be mission driven has been nonpartisan and i hope that will be the case also with a diverse set of use not in the traditional sense but those looking at the homeland security enterprise and has had significant impacts of at the end of the day any counsel is as good as the secretaries have being trust and driving on the admissions they hold near and dear with people they confide in but my big take away it is as nonpartisan as it can be it will not be all that it can be.
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>> and real quick. and then to constituted? >> since i'm testifying before congress? no i have not heard anything. not since the initial letter went out to the entire counsel. >> i yield back. >> the gentle man from rhode island. the gentleman from new jersey is now recognized for five
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minutes. we cannot hear you. can you hear me? >> we will be back. >> thank you mr. chairman think into the witnesses for the testimony today. let me start out and it's good
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to see you again on the commission i'm proud to have served as a commissioner. but i agree wholeheartedly to be focused on cybersecurity threat facing the country yesterday the white house announced it formed a ransomware forced to address but can you expound on the work of dhs more broadly to protect the nation of those recommendations quick. >> thank you congressman. in terms all you have done for the commission.
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but in addition to the critical role the primary recommendation we put forward with the nda a is the first national cyberdirector that serves as a head coach to finally get everyone talking on the same sheet of music. . . . . not taking away from fbi's important mission in law enforcement and scaling opportunity to fall back ransomware but coin and the like but it does play a big role
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center gravity to interact with our private sector and cumbersome, this is a big emphasis for us going forward, if we want to see real progress, it can't just be alphabet soup and i don't mean that -- it can't just be the inside, it really has to be how we empower and enable our frontline and private sector is front and center. not many companies went into business thinking they have to defend themselves against foreign intelligence services providers what we are dealing with today so how do we do that? this plays a big role and i was pleased to see the ransomware campaign today because we are starting to see one voice, one team. >> thank you. you encapsulated it perfectly.
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thank you. i wanted to see if you could comment on the challenges dhss facing especially with cybersecurity, what should be be keeping in mind to attract the cyber count we need? >> obviously the numbers are staggering and frightening to think about it in terms of skilled cybersecurity workforce. first and foremost we need to upscale and free skill retain the best and brightest we have in play but i do think we need to look to ways to recruit more diversity into the cybersecurity community and women in particular make up less than 25% of cybersecurity workforce, that is unacceptable.
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we need to redouble the numbers in a big way and ultimately, i think k-12, once you hit, i'm speaking from university of course, post secondary and college education is a priority, and it is but ultimately we have to get to the next generation when their number. cybersecurity needs to be part of the way they do cyber and ultimately we are talking about k-12 and i think we have a lot to learn from our allies, notably his doña israel in terms of how they literally are bringing in at the kindergarten level, cybersecurity into the curricula so i didn't give a lien answer but all of the above, more of it and pastor. >> i couldn't agree more and focusing on k-12 and also
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diversity. we are stronger when we have different points of view and backgrounds to bring to the table and we have to work harder on the diversity part as well. i know my time has expired and i'll have to submit to the record. thank you to the panel, i'm sorry i couldn't get to you for questions but thank you, i look back. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman -- five minutes. >> thank you. the things he briefly testified in your opening statement and what you provided prior to your testimony you say in your report the most prevalent and wants pressing matter we face is cyber. you say cyber is the area who must double down and worked the hardest. you go on talking about recent attacks we've seen last year end
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this year, solar wind, microsoft exchange. he mentioned u.s. python, food supply cyber incursion and you talk about ransomware and how ransomware is not just targeting large multi national corporations but targeting schools and businesses and hospitals and as you go into talking about deterrent factors and you say resilient support deterrent must not eliminate the need for u.s. strategy to deter adversaries opposing real cost and you also mentioned russia or many of these are occurring and it's far too long taking a walk to engage in this behavior that has damaged the u.s. both national security and economic
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security so i would like to see if you could take a few moments to talk about this u.s. strategy of deterrent we are constantly playing defense, we are allowing these two are current in china and russia but it seems we are doing very little to engage any of those individuals. i know we talk about law enforcement challenges being able to make arrests for countries, what more can we do and what should u.s. policy be? i think you may be cute if. >> i think you framed fact well, not my words but yours. bottom line, this is a critical role to play but we are never going to firewall our way out.
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i sort of like if you are a football team only having a frontline and you need all of the above. the reality is, we need to induce changes in bad cyber behavior. we need to start imposing cross and consequences on bad cyber behavior and to do that, we need to be willing to put lines and silicon and went those are crossed, we have to have the political will and follow through on our ability to respond. without getting into this, we have be greatest cyber capability right now and that is something that should not be lost on the rest of the world. we also need to be willing to deploy and employ some of these capabilities to ultimately
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change bad cyber behavior. for way too long, the bad guys have been getting away with murder. that's unacceptable. that said, we need to shore up our defenses. the last thing we want to do, it still remains with the attacker from warner bros. are extreme. we need to bring these pieces together and i am confident the creation of the new national cyber director which congress passed last year can help us get to that but here is the bottom line. not all hackers are the same, capabilities vary. at the top of the list, russia and china. just beneath that, iran, north korea. what they lack in catalytic they make up for with intent and very little turn toward cyber to achieve their objectives. cyber criminals which five years ago, now they are at park where nations were three to five years ago so we've got the which is
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brew here we need to deal with. bottom line is, we need to start imposing consequences and follow through and bring in craft including the military if done appropriately to achieve our cyber objectives. >> one follow-up question from you think the administration is sending a strong enough message to adversities, adversaries as it relates to cyber attack and the response would take to defend ourselves using offense of capability? >> i have long been an advocate we need to do more. i've been critical of all in this particular space. i do think we saw some positive development in terms of raising this issue directly with vladimir putin but the proof is
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going to be in the pudding. are we going to actually follow through on our words and make sure they are not empty? the worst thing we can do we take it seriously and not follow through. i will be cautiously optimistic we are moving in the right direction but more is needed and i don't mean to go on and on and on but china is the country we really need to be looking at closely over the long haul so much more is needed too much to cover in this hearing but thank you. >> i recognize the gentleman -- judgment from new jersey for five minutes. >> thank you and i apologize. question mr. darren and ms. mulligan. trump administration abused
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authorities over the last four years, reputation and disseminated -- decimated public trust and dhs action. as a government agency that depends on regular interaction with state and local communities, it's uniquely reliant on relationships with the public. i'd like if you could answer the following question. what are the biggest factors that affect the public's trust and how can the department rebuild that trust? >> thank you for the question. one of the reasons i think dhs in particular is a department
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that needs public trust is because it single operational and it touches people in a very personal way every single day for the citizens or individuals to enter the country through various means, it's up close and personal personal in the way the other bureaucracies are not and it's also an extraordinarily heavy law enforcement component overtime from therefore it is essential because of factors operate according to these and the public has a good understanding of what the rules are. one set of recommendations i have in these reports, developing and modernizing
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operational guidelines on enforcement components of the department work through increasing transparency so once we have updated rules how dhs offices and employees are interacting with the public, but the rest out there so people can put them off that and understand. >> think it. >> i agree with everything she said, i will not re- summarize it. dhs has extraordinary authorities also in areas like cybersecurity, everything we see ask it clear that there has to be even greater trust between dhs and the american people so our recommendation is dhs needs look at everything it does through the lens of enhancing public trust that may not make everyone happy but it's going to be necessary because trust needs to be one of the greatest assets dhs has going forward.
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>> thank you. >> i think the reason we are all circling around the issue of dhs law enforcement role is because that is where the trust is revised and in our report, it's one reason we consider whether exclusively investigate if law enforcement is. they will always be law enforcement within the department because it will continue to secure, defend and enforce. the question for this committee i think is, are those primary -- the department has prior to the american people or is there an expanded role and across the country.
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we argue rebalancing prioritized bring balance with each other is one of the first things we can do to restore trust of the american people. >> thank you. i was going to try to get in one more question but i will look back. thank you. >> the gentleman you expect. the chair recognizes -- gentleman from north carolina for five minutes. >> i think you've been on the same page, law enforcement functions of dhs are a priority and you mentioned terrorism and
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immigration enforcement. i think the clerk has a chart, let me see if the clerk has. i think we are getting ready to see results for june and we will show that and pick that up yet again. what i understood to be a 20 year high, that continues to gradually increase. this line on the 2019 fiscal year in your paper in march
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about homeland security department, he suggested the trump of ministrations policies have been unsuccessful and an increase with that 2019 increase in particular but most notable about it, the orange line goes up and that it receives. now we are off at this unusual speak has continued at a plateau. does that not change your view about whether or not immigration enforcement continues to be a priority? >> i'm not sure if you were addressing that at me but let me start off and then you can add more as well. let me explain a little bit rhyming when i'm describing drawing got a little bit in terms of law enforcement capacity of the department.
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i understand concerns about border security and obviously there is continued challenge at the border in respect to immigration enforcement. i have not suggested that we drop down on for patrol manpower or resourcing cattle. what i am suggesting is we make sure number one that the law enforcement components of the department do what their mission is. for example when it comes to border patrol, i would 50 border patrol agent working on border issues, not being deployed into the interior of the country to do things unrelated to border patrol. we focus on has been on investigative law enforcement capacity at the department and this is what we call home and security investigation which is a component of ice break that's an area where i wonder whether there are duplicate of action between activities between fact
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investigative function and other law enforcement components of the federal government whether it's useful -- >> thank you and i want to interject, what is the most important and imperative action at this time by homeland security that would continue in the plateau to mine of enforcement at the southwest border? what we need to to continue that as much of the trump administration? >> i appreciate that question, i don't think there is a magic bullet for solving the challenges of the border. when you talk about the broader issues we are really talking about, a wide range of policy issues. foreign policy, -- >> let me interject, let me see if anybody would want to jump
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in. something precipitously to reduce that rate. >> we need to decide and immigration system that processes people daily, justly and fairly quickly. trying to run for supreme court the way we run traffic court, it would be chaos. >> what you are saying -- >> in accordance with the law, yes but -- >> continuing the flow? >> youth need to be able to have people's cases heard so they don't have to either wait around for a result or be released awaiting a hearing. he ought to be able to design a system that avoids water crisis. >> i yield back, thank you, mr. chairman. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from missouri for five minutes.
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the chair recognizes the gentle lady from new york, with park for five minutes. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman and i think our ranking member and witnesses for your insights today. the new american securities report, dhs cybersecurity mission has grown over time but authorities cybersecurity entities cybersecurity infra structure agencies have not kept paid. national defense act 2021 includes several provisions to align with authorities with current mission including persistent authority joint cyber planning office and our work is hardly done for half past congresses failure to equip
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what's necessary to effectively carry out the cyber mission and undermine national security posture and how could this between authorities and responsible lease be addressed? >> thank you for the question and i do recognize this committee and congress is somehow renewed attention in considering proposals to be able to strengthen so i appreciate the committees work on that. here's what i think when i think would be a robust system we want to have, it would have the capabilities, resources, expertise to warn both in respect to.gov and private and public private sector partners and other public sector partners. it would have the ability to significantly insisting remediation cyber offense and it would have the capabilities to protect democratic institutions
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demonstrated that it's capable of doing a lot when it comes to public sector partners to protect and strengthen electoral infrastructure those are the things that i think would make a robust -- one of the things i recommended in the past in respect to what congress can do, one of the recommendations of the commission was to create a committee in order to take on cyber issues across the board. in a report i wrote david, who recommended at least there be an interim select committee on cyber so we can take these recommendations which huntsman and others participated in and drive forward the recommendations so they continue to have behind them and a legislative vehicle and congress to make that happen. >> is there anything what at or
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disagree with in that analysis? >> the congressional oversight but i do think that is an issue we need to look at and honestly, your committee. all men security committee needs to have the wherewithal and oversight of authorities to do it job but a couple things, i brought up this critical infrastructure, i do think there is a time for incident reporting making that required for critical infrastructures. i do think the joint cyber planning office can get us closer to where we want to be on the public private partnership because that's where the action should be and ultimately i think to move brothers, i'm a big proponent of a national cyber director but there is one i want to bring up that i have not discussed nor have i heard from anyone yet today, supply chains
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are so important here and we are so dependent from a component perspective, we've got to start bringing monitoring peak technologies and capabilities back to the united states and while that is an issue across the board, the truth is we have a long way to go because we don't even have the abilities across our supply chain. after each incident -- >> i would love to go on more on that, i just want one more question for the panel and not multiple administrations have struggled to improve coordination between other federal agencies in overcoming these on cybersecurity. star national defense organization act includes language clarifying the role of federal agencies overseeing critical infrastructure and establishing a national cyber
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director. among other things, despite efforts to classify roles and responsible lease, coordination within the federal government to promote security and resilience of the nation's critical infrastructure is not where it needs to be. what do you think congress will need to do to ensure effective strategic interagency collaboration to address cyber threats against critical info structure and are there other recommendations for this number commission that you believed would help better collaboration? it's for the entire panel. quickly, any thoughts. >> we would certainly agree with what frank is saying about the need to designate critical infrastructure and cyber survey have certain obligations for certain benefits, but it's one of the most important recommendations that needs to be
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adopted. >> one last thing i would add, i do think that one of the issues, we can build capacity and absolution already outlined we have to start creating an output out of dhs. in other words, dhs is going to need to do a better job continuing to improve its ability to understand the providers outside of government actually need to be informed about and how to inform them in a timely way and levels that they can act upon. >> one thing i want to say, i think it is important so this of course is at the center of a lot of activity, critical owner operator but it's the risk management agency so we used to call fsa sectors agencies working so doe plays an important role with written
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security and needs to continue to do that this can help enable back so i think the new national cyber director we finally have a head coach, someone who can bring to get all defensive defensive coordinator onto the same field with the same playbook and all i ask is that congress enable chris to do his job as cyber director. >> i yield back and thank you all for your expertise today. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from new jersey for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman and thank you for having the hearing and i think the witnesses testifying. as you all know, we are truly living in extraordinary times. whether cyber, ransom physical running safety and security of our great nation. in the past six months, we have seen ransomware attacks like
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we've never seen before. water treatment plants, meat facilities, you name it, it's been attacked. a dangerous adversary working to undermine our critical infrastructure which is as important now more than ever for congress to work with stakeholders to produce effective solutions. in addition to cyber vulnerabilities, are water faces serious threats as well. unprecedented numbers of migrants have entered the united states through our southern border and get the fenestration has done practically nothing to remedy the situation. immigration and customs enforcement customs and border protection agents are overworked by anything we could even imagine they have high rates of burnout. the witnesses have outlined in the testimony, it's no secret
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the department of homeland security has shortcomings despite high threat landscape. it's ironic that the department is receiving very small increase in funds at this critical time. ...
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>> it makes it a crime to unlawfully we the united states it is a crime. were you aware of that quick. >> i am aware of persistently high rates of migrants presenting at the southern border over time, yes. >> are you where it is a crime? >> absolutely. >> not present but unlawfully enter as a crime. >> fi 21 cbp has arrested 6918 individuals with criminal convictions how do you ensure criminals and gang members smuggle between ports of entry are actually caught for the
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extreme danger the present? >> so none of us today have argued for a dismantling with a radical shift away from the missions of the department. bringing them into balances what i certainly testified about. in terms of safety and security at the border it is important to differentiate between folks who are trying to enter the country who have the criminal records that you are talking about and folks presenting at the border who don't and the overwhelming majority do not it is the function of cbp to differentiate but we should not treat them all the same. >> i understand that that going back to the previous
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statement, how do we consider this an asset to the country? we need to immigration laws i believe in illegal immigration or do we just open the borders everywhere? or just with the southern border? how do we approach this with the sovereign nation to protect the people who live in the nation and then to put together a real legal immigration plan? they are being used as drug mules how can that be a good thing? even for then when we have agreements at the northern triangle and new mexico and with that border in our
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country countries have borders. mexico does canada does everyone that speaks for itself has a border how do we let this happen? >> thank you for the question. we absolutely should have a border. i am deeply respectful of the rule of law. but those that are opposing in my view significantly high-end risks to american lives and prosperity like the pandemic and the cyberissues. those are threats impacting american lives and their pocketbooks in ways you can
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see what's happening at the southern border. >> juice think that and all is a threat? do you believe that is a threat and on the ports of entry. >> you are long expired. >> it is absolutely a threat and that is why it is a tremendously important to have the department of homeland security focused on taking a broader view. one of the things i find heartening is that we are focusing exclusively on terrorism. so that gets back to it was said earlier. we have to get to a place to keep the nation more secure
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more broadly with all the issues you are raising so those become part of the core mission of the department. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from missouri for five minutes. >> we appreciate that to all the witnesses today. i have a couple of questions to deal with and one of them if it has already been dealt with to increase the number of incidents on us airlines with unruly passengers and authority band dealt with but if that has not been addressed i word appreciate it if any of
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you want to respond to that if you can. >> the issue of board airlines is what tsa takes very seriously they are trained in this how to deal with these situations. all of us have been fraught with air travel the past year it is example of the mission that we always have to undertake why law enforcement personnel at the federal air marshals have are the essential part to protect her aviation security system. >> thank you i appreciate that we have passengers that are helping to control this and
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people don't want to wear a mask because whatever it is they hate the other side more than their health. it is a big mess but the american progress report calls for dhs to refocus based on safety and services and as i understand it that approach does not ignore or reduce or downplay the security of americans prosperity but it does suggest we focus dhs where it is most effective for
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the federal agencies. can you describe how this best addresses the foundation of the long-standing challenges of the dhs mission? >> absolutely you are completely right safety and service model does not denigrate or diminish the importance of the protecting and securing those missions that are central and have been central to dhs since it was created. but dhs is one of the federal constellation of departments and agencies most come into contact with more regularly than any other federal department and we rely on them going through airport security, coming back from a vacation.
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and disaster strikes in our hometown relying on federal resources for help any time of need. that is what will become more important in the next 20 years stand the past 20 years. and it argues that it takes pride in those missions and to bring them into balance with the mission of the past 20 years. our vision heading into the future is a reimagined dhs away from 9/11 to focus on how it can be americans. >> but fema is a different part of the homeland security portfolio.
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but i'm of that block grant disaster component and it seems it may be more appropriate for had they and dhs. >> i think fema definitely belongs in a reimagined safety and services. if the vision is primarily law enforcement security provision then maybe yes, but in my view there is something inherently integral of what is provided and the threat facing the country and then to integrate in the department of homeland
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security and then to be diminished elsewhere but having seen firsthand emergency preparedness and disaster response at the department of justice, i can say fema has come out long way for what they do. in my view one of the success stories in the department think of fema and the conversations earlier in this hearing the way acting as the threat advisor, there is the threat advisory role at dhs it does better than any other federal agency. it needs to lean into those areas to add unique value that falls between the cracks. >> we recognize the gentle man
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from texas for five minutes. >> there's never been a more important conversation over two decades i don't think there has been a time since 9/11 we efface the number of threats we face right now. cyberthreats. the rise of great power competition the crisis at the border economic threats they are all over so to feel the pain for the crisis is specifically related to the border one of your testimonies for questions you ask for them around the news is at an all-time low there being asked to protect us but yet the resources they are given and the policy handed down of the job they are doing i'm
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interested to know the situation is called the crisis including the funding for additional people whether those additional impacts you see on morale? have you been to the rio grande valley or the southern border the last couple months quick. >> not the last couple of months because it's easier to arrange travel as a member of congress and the private sector. the challenges that cbp face go back to what predate it a number of policies and the obama administration. a decision taken the way pay was administered. >> i like to focus on the policies right now. >> recently talking to agents
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during the national security mission. >> i agree there will be a challenge equal to any other law enforcement organization going through difficult times. it will take a lot of help and support from the congress to address cbp problem but it steep going back to the hiring done when cbp felt it needed to increase its numbers and then there were problems well-documented from those in office. >> we will enter an era where law enforcement will continue to scratch their heads wondering if the policies from above will support the mission we have a crisis in the numbers do not lie period
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nothing is being done to address it. another question can billion related we have to tackle this it is impacting communities not on the border mine is not on the border it will impact every single one of our communities if not already. and with your opening statements the associate secretary position is being required concentrating on law enforcement issues. i am very interested in this because it sounds a little bit bureaucratic of the bureaucratic and what does that jurisdiction do? >> those that cbp and i.c.e. have been can't get the
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support from headquarters that they need so i hope it provides that type of leadership. >> this is from the justice department as well as a deputy attorney general and an associate. it helps the department be managed better because they can split portfolios and the secretary can have a birdseye view and focus on particular components but when i roundtable this across the administrations, bipartisan group of experts. >> i'm interested to see that the deputy to the assistant sometimes puts us into the bureaucratic nightmare where clearer vision and mission statements are completely clouded. what i think would be helpful
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for isis for the priorities because right now they cannot do their job. i yield back. >> the gentle lady from nevada for five minutes. we heard a lot about the serious problems of the workforce the dhs and then a temporary position can fight the's disasters of climate change because unlike reservists they don't have guarantees but for example with homeland security it has passed the house last april
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and pass the senate committee just yesterday to target recruitment at hbc and those minority serving. i that our panel especially formally of tsa the other problem we have heard about the other is the border the latest technology at dhs. we don't seem to be able to deal with new and emerging threats and thinking about unmanned aerial systems we see that more and more at the
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border as they come up with illegal drugs and weapons. and if we are working front dhs and department of defense or some kind of countermeasure or technology to counter these operations for these occurrences at the border like the department of defense there is a lot of research in this area we want to be able to reach across and take advantage of that research. >> that does go on the instrument packages dod needs and that is different from dhs. but i'm sure a technology reef would be enormously beneficial to show you things that professionals would like to see in future technology this is important to leverage a far more effective use of taxpayer
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dollars. >> and then you have collateral damage and to deal with that growing threat and that comment of the workforce and to diversify the bill might be helpful? >> anybody? >> i certainly support all efforts to diversify the workforce that you have laid out in the bill are a step in the right direction part of the problem that stems from the politicalization of the department and if you are down at the southern border with a different representative and talking to folks it just isn't
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what they are asked to do but how it changes over time and how the czar prioritize in the prioritize and how much leadership is a critical role. >> the people that rotate in and out of that position many of them were not qualified in a short period of time. also the work that we asked tsa employees to do that might help with sound benefits and bargaining power. >> i absolutely agree. >> we will keep working on that to try to get it through maybe we can see how that works on the drone issues.
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>> the chair recognizes the gentle lady from iowa for five minutes. >> we have certainly heard about the threats facing the homeland and the border i visited the border into me every state is a border state. last year we predicted at the pandemic many people that are veterans and physicians predicted with our response to the pandemic they would be an increase in deaths from drug overdose with drug addiction as well as suicide and today the des moines register published that 87 percent of opioid aid overdose in iowa the past year as compared to 2016 related to fentanyl.
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and as we know what the massive numbers of people coming across the border illegally in cbp passing as individuals those agents are pulled off of the border so that is a tremendous problem that has only worsened during the pandemic from the pandemic standpoint it has been painfully apparent not only the federal government has all the necessary resources to respond to my true national emergency or disaster such as the pandemic there is a failure with testing and the fda and congress appropriates billions of dollars to state and local emergency managers in public safety partners fortunately there was not funding with the workforce
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with the people on the front line of treating the pandemic many have been calm entitlement grants focused on maintenance resulting important innovation to meet emerging threats and risk and why does the national response to covid-19 should be overhauled to ensure we build capacity at every level of government and more importantly to measure the return on investment to the nation with a significant investment any other witnesses can respond. >> i would agree there needs to be a complete overhaul of how we prepare for future pandemic i do think at some point that we should think about a commission to investigate what needs to be done to protect us from future
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pandemics as many people have said that response to covid-19 was a national disaster with a number of death succeeding and we need to have to deeply understand what went wrong. from what i know it is a problem. >> i wholeheartedly agree they do think our response to this pandemic and future pandemics the origins of covid-19 with the colleagues on the other side need to explore that to set standards for disclosure especially just to follow up on that do states have the responsibility to maintain preparedness for cyberattacks
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quick. >> yes but we cannot turn upside down the federal responsibility that has to be part of the picture. >> i yield back my time. >> the chair recognizes the gentle lady from florida. >> thank you so much to all witnesses for being with us today. multiple administrations have struggled i am particularly interested in a coordination transparency with other federal agencies that share the responsibility we've heard it said the appointment of the national cyberdirector to do
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his job but despite efforts of responsibilities of the coordination to promote security and resilience of infrastructure is not where it needs to be. what more do you think congress needs to do to ensure effective enter agency correct on - - collaboration to address cyberthreats against critical infrastructure? i hope we discussed so many issues today that we would not abandon our responsibilities that the safety and security of the homeland of all areas as an attack on the united states capital or other areas.
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and what can congress do? >> intelligence community the department of justice and one of the issues is confusion around the federal agency so to be extremely helpful as we are looking at fresh eyes to be very clear where we want dhs to be the lead federal agency and to support that they should have the lead in two important areas one is in connecting federal resources
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with officials and also the public and private sectors so what we find is often each department and agency to make those connections is confusing for the recipients to handle back connecting mission that creates allied of clarity and then to do what it does quite well. the other place where multiple folks on the panel agree dhs should be a larger role is communicating to communicate threat information and actions the public and private sector can take.
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to be the lead communicator of threat information is important way for dhs to invest in the resilience you were just talking about. >> climate change drives the complex of natural disasters droughts and wildfires of course with an additional board and - - additional burden as it becomes more complex it is more unpredictable with the entire homeland security i do believe they are directly related describe the strategy of the security implications of climate change. >> it is not dhs mission to lower global temperatures but it is our mission to make sure extreme weather, hurricanes, wildfires
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do not jeopardize american lives and infrastructure. working closely with state and local governments that codes are up to spec with emergency assistance but it's especially important we are designed for resilience that all the things that government does is with an effort to protect us so when the occur it doesn't destroy the infrastructure of the country. >> i yield back. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman for five minutes. >> thank you mr. chairman to follow up for my colleagues on texas excellent comment talk
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about around hitting the bottom and i agree, it is completely clear that when an agency's important work doesn't get support from top leadership morale suffers so we could start by stopping the negative comments about cbp and i.c.e. and when they are just trying to do their job and follow the law. and politicians purposely degrade them of course it will negatively impact morale. we should be supporting dhs efforts to continue the instruction of the border wall written into the law by congress but instead this administration counters that law by executive order and as a result the biden border crisis. so when you're briefing paper published by the center for a new america security you
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suggested dhs border security and law enforcement activity should correspond to quote on - - authorize missions and those departmental priorities with legitimate safety threats and needs. house and senate democrats have repeatedly called for defending i.c.e. in cbp but border agents have intercepted known terrorist sexual predators and even weapons according to data published drug seekers were up april 2021 methamphetamines increased 53 percent seizures of fenton all increased 9 percent and 740754 pounds have been sees this fiscal
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year far surpassing the 4700 pounds so do you agree there is a legitimate security and safety threat of the southwestern border? >> i agree the border presents a current challenge i think in the political dialogues running the border issues there has been a melding of issues between those individuals seeking to cross the border to present an actual security threat versus those who seek to answer the border for other reasons that is a law enforcement issue. >> i am assuming that is a yes
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you do agree there is legitimate security and safety threat at the southwestern border. >> border security can present security issues i don't necessarily agree every individual crossing the border. >> is there a border threat? i want to commend the new website stop ransomware.gov i believe that went today think that will do a lot for private enterprise. so what information do you think the intelligence
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committee could more quickly share with the private sector on a regular basis to help disrupt ransomware or others cyberattacks quick. >> that would be information people could take action on and encourage them to make sure they have cyberhygiene in place and make sure they end of stand the with the responsible business owner this needs to be done for small businesses a resource intensive activity for a place like cissa. >> i think it is doing an exceptional job may have had some notable successes but the key building on is identifying way for the federal government to share that is fit for purpose action by the public
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and private sector to translate to collect into usable information making sure what cissa is doing there is clarity for the lead for to communicate that education it is lack of clarity to make sure there is a leadership role. >> thank you mr. chairman and thank you for your response about distinguishing the security threat at the border
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in wish politicians would focus on the security threat of domestic terrorism and when politicians degrade capital police at the capital and they were just another visit at the capital it's hard to take seriously so let me just thank you for your response to make that distinction to what is a security threat so the chairman is leading this effort on the january 6 commission. since the inception of enforcement and law-enforcement function customs and border protection immigration and in particular have grown disproportionately
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large in scope without the necessary oversight and must be made to improve dhs safeguard and accountability in the next decade and beyond. can you tell us more about your proposed reforms border security immigration and law-enforcement quick. >> absolutely and thank you. i will go quickly because we made a lot of recommendations updating the mission of the department is important and developing the direction of modernize guidelines of that law enforcement capacity and even the justice department and this agency has been concentrated in the department
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of homeland security and then to have all that needs to be oversight structures across the entire department and then to create an oversight council and the associate secretary to have greater management portfolio and looking at transparency and training. and with that select landscape all of those together that i hope congress and the administration would take on it with oversight and accountability. >> is anything you would like to add to the recommendations of this area quick.
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>> with those that have presented overall the department will need to rebalance and have more clarity where we want to be prioritizing because as the hearing demonstrates there are so many different fronts and protecting americans security and prosperity we need to understand where we need prioritizing. >> is there anything you want to add? >> no those are excellent comments. obviously there is a lot that needs to be done and the leadership that dhs headquarters needs to set the right tone and not politicize what homeland security does.
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>> i am a visual learner and i appreciate seeing the video in your opening remarks. i think it's a great way to show what is needed. can you explain your recommendations for dhs to focus on a public service model how that fits within the larger role as a response leader quick. >> thank you for the question i'm glad to hear the video it was a labor of love for us to reimagine what it might look like that the important thing to remember is that many of the missions we are advocating to focus additional attention is what it already has. the department is regularly engaging in the facilitation of goods and travel across the
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border to communicate that information for serving the crisis response through fema. what we're arguing those missions are deemphasized in a disproportionate amount of focus is why are political priorities enforcement at the southern border and counterterrorism that we think is out of sync with today's threat picture so it seems right at this point during the 20 year anniversary of the creation to bring these priorities into better balance it is the first order of what we need from dhs and then to
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be focused. >> . >> . >> so the first question so specifically with the office of the intelligence and operations coordination, how does dhs and to perform worthwhile functions and that information share. >> so you raise a great
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question but in terms of those functions but anywhere that you can see one day take away in terms of dhs they are not clearly delineated the office of the secretary so if you compare dhs with dod your department of state there is a much greater awareness what the office of secretary can drive and work on because it is a collage some call the island of misfit toys there are 22 different but unique agencies and departments. we do need to be looking for any opportunities to streamline or enhance efficiency and coherence one of the things i pushing on is
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economic security from the supply chain perspective you have the opportunity given every one of the components to streamline that and focus it's a long-winded way to say yes but we need to look at it a little more closely. >> with intelligence and analysis earlier this year a paper written by adjunct senior took a deep dive and basically propose to congress two different models because right now ina is not making anybody happy with expectations to assemble intelligence information so those big models together it more authority to conduct
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intelligence with a wider range of activities and threats other models go much smaller like the state department was services and other policy members to have that with cissa and then to serve the needs of the policymakers that our proposals and the assessment is congress to take a deeper look pick one and go with it to where it can be more productive. >> first i want to thank you representative to be the first person who mentioned the up position coordination office which gets no attention and
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even more than ina needs to be go big or go small type of enterprise it runs the operation center of ina staff it is the classic intelligence organization with special authorities and capabilities and ina exist to serve the state and local fusion centers as well as those that need intelligence analysis. >> anything to add? >> i think while speaking in unison. this is a place to have a bigger mission or more
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tailored to fill a specific need that it is ripe for a refresh. >> this is great. >> can i add one minor point? when we initially stood up for the department of homeland security, there was the intent to have the office of intelligence what is now cissa and starting on a different footing because in between that and out - - the national counterterrorism center played a much bigger role especially to support these missions. so in some ways ina started off in an awkward type of way just for what it's worth. now is the time to right size
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and grow that doesn't compete with the fbi because quite honestly they do this better or more narrowly focused and that the components take on the subject matter areas whether cbp at the border. >> i appreciate that. i'm out of time. thank you. >> . >> i'm happy to defer.
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>> i thought you were going to call me new yorker which would be completely insulting. i appreciate you organize this hearing and strengthen homeland security with those emerging threats and challenges and in 2000 to the aftermath the terrorist attacks with the necessary focus from foreign terrorist groups. two decades later landscape with the homegrown terrorist movement and to be ethically motivated by extremist that the director has testified to be motivated.
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how does it address the serious threat of violent extremist groups like those three presenters and the proud boys on the capital quick. >> it needs to be understood that dhs has specific limits and statutory roles, lead investigative agencies and that needs to stay that way. but dhs through intelligence and analysis office needs to connect the dots to put together warnings for senior leadership in greater clarity whose job is it to look at social media of what people are saying i saw the fbi director fumble that question a little that but this is
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something that needs to have congress to clarify whose authority it is because there are significant privacy in public challenges. >> . >> we have a detailed report we put together and those of the national intelligence whose job that nothing escapes notice or politicize. >> our report is the think tank the report written by the former head of new york police intelligence for more than a decade. and then they had some interesting things to say.
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>> i like to enter those for the record. >> . >> and then with those agencies and then with that capacity. >> so i am intelligence analysis component that is a part of the intelligence community. so that way you can get information from the intelligence community and disseminate with other partners in a way that they can receive that information at the same time from the state and local network and those activities in the department itself so provides
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important it doesn't do what the fbi does with the investigative authority to disrupting pursue criminal prosecution of activities which often times are prosecuted or weapons related with other criminal violations. the department of homeland security is not appropriate to have that investigative authority to disrupt so the question for ina does congress want to expand its ability to conduct more intelligence analysis or not be duplicative about the intelligence community is doing?
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this is important including the one we put out because it's not the inflection point right now. >> i yield back my one second. >> . >> the chairman recognizes the vice chair. it has been said there is a crisis in dhs. and specifically do you share my concern of the program that expanded exponentially but only serve to perpetuate that crisis in the agency? >> i do.
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>> and policing abuses without enforcement officials and those along state and local law enforcement officials and there is incredibly important set of issues that gets at the heart of how important it is with extremism and members of the federal and state law enforcement and the numbers that we see in the connections that was very concerning.
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and then to take immediate action because we have a problem in the community. >> it is a paramilitary force onto itself. >> and those that have a disproportionate share. and i'm wondering if that same dynamic exist with dhs law enforcement and whether it attracted abuses for early detection and intervention for anybody who has insight into the subject matter in question. >> there were significant studies done by cbp by democratic and republican administrations that declared the system to be broken.
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and then just to be important as we have the commissioner cbp confirmed and to make sure that many of these things are addressed. and the good men and women a cbp never know that apples among them in this has to be addressed. this will be one of the greatest challenges i commissioner is able to tackle right away. >> with the justice department with the attorney general. i hear people speaking of the need of the independent dhs secretary. there is less of the expectation and fundamentally
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it is a law enforcement agency and how do we create. >> that secretary johnson and secretary chertoff have spoken a very strongly and needs to be nonpartisan in the spirit of uniform military and then to be deep the baked into dhs secretary napolitano famous for jokingly she became secretary she had her partisan bill and removed the point she made that this was her expectation the department needs to be outside of politics as much as possible especially in law enforcement missions. >> i wonder how much of that is a function of mismanagement?
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of that institutional memory has been around for decades or centuries going to the growing pains of a new agency? does it go deeper than that? >> i think it's something else. to be sure, every young department or agency would have management challenges that the cultural problem that exist in my view stems from the story as an agency about encountering terrorism and that mission seeking into what
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there is to do and what attracts them in the first place we have heard throughout the day is to do a whole lot of other things to protecting and providing services that americans depend on but yet there is a workforce disproportionately drawn to the militaristic cosplay role that is inherently and then by adjusting the mission a lot flows from that because people want to see what they are doing reflecting in the
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department and they need to see these elevated and prioritized and praised and incentivized that is only to engage in activities of the people that you serve then you have a culture like dhs. >> thank you for the accommodations. >> anything for the vice chair. [laughter] >> all four witnesses has been excellent and the knowledge of the subject matter. one thing i didn't talk about mention in my opening statement the jurisdictional challenges and responding to
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committees and subcommittees and that reach to respond to it makes it very cumbersome and we plan to continue we understand cissa and its role as part of the new dhs and our challenge more than any other had we put cissa with more mature agencies who don't like the new kid on the block and the colonial pipeline is a good example of what i'm talking about but i do see the need of what we do on
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pipelines and other things because so much of it right now is voluntary so unless you put some teeth behind the regulation it will not be taken seriously so we will be using forward and then to go back and make an argument for. so the members of the committee may have additional questions and that you respond expeditiously and writing with unit unanimous consent to state for the record the partnership of public service
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to overcome the challenge without objection so admitted the chair reminds members to be open for ten business days the committee is adjourned.
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>> the maritime evacuation and that delivers half blame people to safety is an incredible example of the goodness of people you have the tools and the skill set that the people over and over again made the choice to put themselves in harm's way. and that is very instructive and what we need to continue to remember.
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