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tv   Spencer Mc Bride Joseph Smith for President  CSPAN  July 5, 2021 1:35pm-2:31pm EDT

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>> i am solely down with brian, associate managing history of the justice papers that all author of the book, just as it were resident in 1 million years the tre was professor of history at lsu and author of the best-selling book trash, nancy eisenberg. welcome both of you. i'm so excited to have you been us.
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we are all looking forwardto hearing from you . >> that he's a lot, but even if you. and if it be talking with you, nancy. >> let's get into it. your book looks at the early years of the mormons misery as they say more specifically misery. joseph smith's presence the poor. most fascinating interpretation of joseph smith price the loss of democracy. you might loss is all areas legal political strategies and essays. is went spoke directly with president martin and you will that was business and business vanburen is .
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place it was unsatisfying. you alone so smith's white house visit, then the order issued exactly how smith in the mornings viewed the role of the federal sea power. >> has immersed myself in the surviving, he clearly shows that one of a animallike nature. a man who aspired the political leadership, online politicians, every politician says politician. i think that's actually really true. the mormons were content to kind of us alone. when they were alone that joe smith was worth doing in the federal political system mormons expelled from missouri over is a session
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expiration were on the of the state willbe started . joseph smith travels in washington dc they realize all this land us in missouri. our religious unity were killed , rates, of use. something easy and they prepare a petition to congress joe smith was with martin van buren . for van buren to the mormons side and uses labor congress. van buren doesn't do any precious performance orderlies. your political definition. he says your office just do nothing for you. i hope you lose the election because i'll lose the state of missouri. van buren recognizes the injustice and we are powerless to this evening.
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hearing in the same judiciary committee . and then there not consideration the mormons get, there's a federal permit any rules later. this is his is this for part of our traditional history, part of our collective amnesia. the bill of rights did not apply to individuals a prior 14th amendment. and we forget. but all of a sudden we see joseph smith was not a constitutional scholar, not a great line was the leader of a small finds himself almost by accident on something wrong here. there is something wrong is a style of religious minority extermination and the federal government says archive.
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that's really where joseph smith comes in and across this positioning is this idea that the doctrine while the service has nothing to do with religion. must use the slavery, but no one else is moving seats right back saying this will hurt religious minorities joseph smith is one of the says i love my country there's something wrong with the prosecution. let's face. when congress refuses to help refuses to help joe smith positions every year until his death. have a heart of his vision is this constitutional reform. the bill of rights needs to apply to the individual states. it needs to protect the people in the state failed to do so . >> and a flight and that's the story we miss you say when is too narrowly drawn
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this in the life of a variety of ways. is designated as a dangerous library. as he said when the governor of misery claims the mormons are kind of a danger to their safe dangers in the nation and all the extreme language of calling them traitors, calling them a danger opened the door that use. that calls up with him next because of the reason they are used minority very much threatened is that your book shows repeatedly that the way in which violence models, rather than being a monopoly are seen as a democratic practice. i think this alone should be falling to your readers reminds us as we have models today.
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that we have to take them seriously. in fact, in 1923 highly regarded in the criminal justice america that average americans were prone to the law into their own hands to write their own laws, use, organize vigilante committees for lynchings and exerts offhand extralegal pressures. and i think if we think about the mormons, only to the terminated, as he himself was the. is a sensitive part of his cell. you just stand on the dangers , the very serious dangers at a case. in a sense, why even made and your indifference even more high? >> as you mentioned and we've been talking about some of your writing this idea of violence at all of her pussy.
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is not the exception. is present from the beginning so while i'm in bc enshrined in these documents will be rather. universal freedom, the reality is. those old university often wife, promises men. often had to resort to illegal violence, violence to maintain this position. laws are written in this way since everyone deserves. they actually want to play so when their privilege is, this position in society and the loss of and when, they turn tomorrow they did as not persecution, they see it as a force necessary to save democracy.
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obtaining my sitting is taking their power within democracy. they say this is to save democracy so these models, maybe in your mind you have visions of pitchforks and torches there were short sentences and guns. often they would meet and draft proclamation or declaration just justifying their mob violence. essentially telling themselves in the wrong here. this is a often is. they mormons danger to the flesh lies, working on her. then they proceeded to shoot, burn, and in the name of. so this is really falling part of the. is that this actually the lens was seen not in an operation on a democratic system as a key element and as you mentioned, this still
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lives with us to this day. i think not as badly as have caused me to reevaluate that this idea of illegal violence, of the matter your own hands you get your way . is really calling as artistes . they become an important case america. mom's acting on democratically in the name of democracy. >> .on january 6, rough losses they" 1776. and models that were used against religionists, they would rely on the common law and claim that they have the right to you know, to defeat publicly, anything that was wrapped up in these models they see itself as will people that will fully
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related people, who are very day. some people in our is there representing people. they are exercising their rights and this is the problem with rights language because it is not someone using their own. as in most cases the majority on the rights of a minority group as it is in the case of the mormons. okay, interesting character. is and i think is when we discussed his spot onthe mayor . was john c is really interesting because you can expand you not involved with the long being born in
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smith's side. you can expose and easy to. because it is very residence at this time in antebellum america but he not only portrays him as a traitor but he portrays them as someone who's going to conquer mister use her many other that are popular in the 19thcentury . use colorful language lab lab will be falling to the events letter of the glorious. so even in this day what do the mormons tell us about the tensions in the 19th century, on class sometimes seems a
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danger. i will be comments a little bit about that particularly in relationship to that. >> john c bennett is one of those old characters. fun to write this book for a general audience, not those already immersed in mormon history . those who know mormon history know john's event is his reaction from readers didn't see . whenever you have religious movement you attract honest seekers but you also attract people with various goals. john was born after in the statement of position of respectability as it seems to that because someone will always seems to be on someone as i left mister wants to
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swear. so looking back, it seems joseph smith was me the sign that he should have been aware of that agency johnson and the a lot of trouble. because john's event begins to seducing women playing he's permitted to do so like you said when you excommunicated for even becomes their credit on the nationwide tour. but the store as you mentioned focuses on the express he says it in the united states.well mormon monster called, the west was at risk. this speaks to this long-standing language manifest destiny and empire where the americans, they saw western in the near was there i initially see the shining see the reality of the
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geopolitical situation was at my on this land for not around, claim was contacted. everyone, what was he blessed us. texas was a threat. what if british expenses also the british and the less. so is concerned you ask americans believe that the western portion of what you say united states was inevitably going to be there. they certain. so john's event infosys here that the latter day saints are going to essentially move west and set up on empire arrivals to the united states. if you want man even more scary. you need the native americans .
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of this minority team up with the native americans, free people of color that's not a slave revolt enough to scare americans into action. what jobs he makes is he knows this is the soft or a 35 four. so the mormons at this demand that are going to undo manifest destiny. >> surprising thing is that the world community extremely powerful for their new c in illinois. and you call it acc on. this is really shocking to me because all, when they get all these added protections on its own terms. but it seems to go against
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all the hostility. why was such a small dangerous religious minority rights in such expanded powers. why this, why did the legislature in.com. >> becomes the key moments in the history of joseph smith and eventually pieces of their own in but in 1848, 1821:, they're already disenchanted with the idea. washington dc is rated average. dc you all the pieces all the mormons are a little bit, then why in terms of their political. they say will is the better. but just in case, we see our local city level to protect
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our rights so this again. there not have been a more opportunetime . was long stronghold will be examining rooms, the wastes were rising to prominence. democrats let's see a gutless work also rising to prominence. these were big malaysia in illinois politics." always the democrats, this will mormons tended to vote together as a essentially protecting their power. so they all wanted to do this as a favor mormons paper with them. so every hour in the charter, the one in some city charter. the mormons were getting these powers out ofwhole cloth . what makes the novel charter so unique is angry all these
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powers. is a will to power enough at the moment which is to the state militia. 2500 person militia when the standing army of the united states the same time wesley thousand men. they were militia. they have these rights to the soreness which means that the city council if someone comes outside of business networks, the city council review you weren't the boy. or unjust. so that's always the ones with, does this. more on the starter thing. but within the next five years one animosity on mormons increases. becomes the party. charter storms too much. mormons see it as necessary
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in some ways undemocratic but they see that is necessary see men working for. but when things are bad as it eventually do the charter of the target of their people the charter. >> so let's get onto smith's presidential run. the presidential platform is both surprising in some sense outlandish but surprisingly not surprisingly outlandish because it shows people have different expectations of what the government to do . if you explain why smith bought, why he made a final set that he thought that presidential run without the mormons unity beyond that he fashion the platform and shake his public image as and
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finally, one of the things that are how was mormon missionaries were left a game . as a. is residency, is it. >> so, anything there is not to say because of my shows a company is a proceeding operations from missouri in life. here's what happened in the way was protection. so the alignment expected frompresident . they play up to three was the president mormon family and henry clay henry clay is the ., lewis, johnson, taft. each one right the same letter saying what will be your policy force the patient
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being you answer this right you have the mormon nationwide especially this concentrated illinois. only three respond and tell that opportunity is the state. >> doctrine preventsus from doing anything that should be . then henry clay, that really irritates is. perhaps even more and replay gives the most politician answering. expresses the understanding as to what going to the office a promise i don't want anything happening here is the more so in january the leader of the church of jesus christ me and say what you say and campaign a third-party.
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someone he hanging over this whole endeavor is discussion of what he serious? because there's no way to visit islam's wayne. there's no way anyone who wasn't a way was when this. note for one until campaign. part of it was pr. public relations, this is reformers of the mormons like me going a real campaign, they can force other some of these things is their platforms. that's thought and study for whether a goal is. but just as he is a very serious about the. he sees this as necessary to do everything you do to help his people. and so for this campaign course is this idea of his father and howard help minority groups in one issue
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candidate. units for this that he certainly throughout the country: general smith's views on the policies and powers of the united states is very first paragraph is. he says there's something wrong when he will create people. millions of men, women and children because of the skin or soul is different than us. so the call for the notion of slavery be very pragmatic in his solution. he calls for the federal government to purchase the freedom of slaves men and women wish on pragmatic bottlenecks but also ideologically in conflict with itself. the idea these men and women should be free people yes you sleep is because they are property joseph sees this as
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a pragmatic solution. call for criminal justice reform . closing the century sing while he claims to be performing medical they are creating criminal class call for the activation of texas and working on or around territory and even into canada and mexico. >> .. >> it is very progressive. it's very relevant.
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sometimes voters are naive in the idea that these policies could be enacted so simply. but yeah, it's not a one issue candidate, even though there's one issue that drove him into the race. and one advantage that he had that other kind of independent third party candidates didn't is he had this kind of core of experienced missionaries, men that had gone out and preached religion trying to make converts, and he essentially sends them out as an electioneers saying go preach politics, and some of them loved it. they felt really comfortable doing that. others, they still only really knew how to preach religion, and for them they would still just preach religion saying hey if i convert somebody and somebody joins the church, that's a vote for joseph smith, even if i convince somebody. this idea -- and this is a time when presidential campaigning is rapidly evolving. and all of a sudden, joseph smith is a part of this evolution of presidential
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campaigning. [inaudible]. >> interesting thing about the platform is he's echoing ideas that are out there in the political realm. i mean, you know, davey crockett was against debt, that goes back to the 1800s about getting rid of debtor prisons and debt how it penalizes people and even the idea of purchasing slaves that's an idea that even john quincy adams -- because it is the whole issue, the debate over how do you convince slave owners to give up their slaves? you compensate them for them. so that was interesting because he's clearly paying attention to what is being debated politically. he's not just on the fringes. i mean, in many ways, he's trying to put together a real platform that addresses what are the issues that are relevant to people at the time that he's
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running. so he is listening. you may not say he's a political animal, but he's astute enough to figure out what were the political issues that people cared about. >> even in writing this book, something that wasn't apparent to me at the beginning that became apparent as i wrote it is joseph smith's development, the development of his political -- for when he shows up at the white house, i just need to make my case and of course they will see the merits of it and take our side and by 1844 he realizes you have to play political hard ball and take on these big issues front and center. again, he has really developed from the novice who shows up at the white house in 1839 and the man who runs in 1844. >> yeah. there's another big issue and tension in your book, you know, it seems one of the undercurrents of hostility is that the mormons are constantly attacked for acting as a group, rather than individuals. you know, it's both a power and
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a danger that they can vote as a block. and, you know, there is a tension there because, you know, smith held sway over the community. there was this messianic belief that he was chosen by god. the community is hierarchal and seems to sort of challenge the idea of individual rights, but we know today that americans vote as groups. so why did this image of the mormons generate so much hostility? i mean, even if we think about -- and this is something that is more clear later about plural marriage, the idea that it also seems to threaten conventional notions of individualism, the idea of monogamy, one husband and one wife. so the mormon and their commune -- the idea of being a community, a political community as well as a religious community seems to threaten or is used as
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a political weapon seems to be seen as a threat to this american creative individualism, which is beginning more to take through in antebellum america. >> where polygamy comes in, it was still being practiced pretty secretly. only people in kind of western illinois had a sense of what was going on, and in fact, when you see the response to joseph smith's presidential ambitions, it is -- no one's worried that he might become president, but people that are close that are nonmormon and antimormon see this as a dangerous sign that someone like smith -- they see it as a sign of boundless ambition. whereas beyond people maybe aren't taking his campaign seriously, but they write there's something dangerous about mixing civil and religious authority. this predates the united states. john locke in one of the most significant documents on religious freedom, a letter
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concerning toleration makes a case for why catholics shouldn't be extended religious freedom, their allegiance to what he calls a foreign prince, the idea that the pope could tell him what to do. yeah, americans have voted as tribes, you know, even today if they see a certain letter next to a candidate's name on the ballot, they may want know a thing about him or -- they may not know a thing about him or her, but they will vote for him or her. there's always been a longstanding tension of people voting together if they are being influenced by a religious leader. that was certainly the case with joseph smith. the block voting -- i will say people in illinois they loved it when the mormons voted their way as a block. they gladly accepted it. when they didn't, they called afowl -- called afoul. this doesn't go away, looking in the 20th century when kennedy ran, he gaves a famous speech in 1960, essentially trying to assuage fears that he would take orders from the pope as
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president. mitt romney had to do this as a candidate for president still in the 21st century. so this fear of people voting as a group and directed by religious leaders in their voting is kind of a long-standing worry in american political culture. yet we pick and choose when it worries us because people don't seem to be worried when leaders today of evangelical mega churches tell their people how to vote, but they get worried when religious minority groups vote together at the direction of their leaders. so even when we point to the principal of a religious leader taking civil authority, americans pick and choose when that bothers them. >> this is one of the things that was used against women rights advocates, the idea you could only follow one authority.
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does the woman have to follow the authority of her husband, or is she an independent actor? is she going to follow the authority of the state? so yeah, and that's -- there's nothing democratic about that. [laughter] so there are these old ideas, these kind of conflicts that are also contradictory in terms of where the threat lies and then why it seems to provoke that kind of fear, but it is sort of that fear, even if you go back to the founders, it is the fear when you raise the anti-catholicism, it is the fear that somehow groups are going to be the puppets of some foreign entity, some dangerous force that somehow is going to, again, be a subversive force. i mean it is the same rhetoric that was used in the cold war. so we never quite free ourselves from that danger of when we see people kind of -- and it's derived -- the cold war rhetoric was also derived from religion. somehow, you know, they are being brainwashed, and that
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comes from the same kind of anti-mormon rhetoric that was so prevalent in the 19th century. okay. so where are we? we know that destruction of the [inaudible]. this is again where another critic criticizes smith and the mormons. it does set the stage for smith's demise. there's a tension here too. the mormons wanted to protect themselves against mobs, extend 1st amendment rights, but then think get caught in a bind. are they going to tolerate a newspaper that mixes sensationalism and criticism? then they end up looking for an argument. they call the paper a public nuisance. that's the same strategy that was used by their enemies against them. so why do you think -- i mean, i know they have a long debate about this, but why do you think they finally decide to kind of mobilize their own mob law,
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which seems like very dangerous and bound to invite retaliation because they just feel like they had no other choice or why did they make that choice? >> yeah. so -- and for those that haven't, you know, dived into the book just yet, this is the event that precipitates joseph smith's assassination. there were people as early as 1841 that wanted to expel the mormons from illinois and do so violently, even more by 1843 and they are just waiting for that opportunity to do it, and when joseph smith gets the city council to order the destruction of this critical newspaper, that gives them this moment. and it's one of those ones where historians, they debate the legality of the city council's actions, and those are important legal debates to have. i think anyone looking back knows that this was the wrong move to make. this was not the right move to make. it was never going to end well
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for joseph smith and the mormons, and certainly it doesn't. certainly they can remember times when mobs drafted a proclamation justifying their mob violence, and here the mormons used the city council. they are going through legal channels, so it's not outside the law, but it still very much has the appearance of a mob destroying a printing press. and that hurt them. there's no way out of that situation. >> yeah, i just want to say, yeah, i think we're on the last question, so we do need a little bit more time. i just wanted to address the coordinator of this talk. i mean, this is the last question because this comes near the conclusion which i think is very telling. why did senator david atchison, of missouri, what did he mean when in 1854 he wrote u.s. secretary of war jefferson davis, and that is jefferson davis, who becomes president of the confederacy, that they plan to quote mormonize the
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abolitionists? what does that tell us, again, when we think about the long-term impact of the controversy around the mormons and the way it shapes issues surrounding minority rights? how does that idea that it's just openly said, it is like, yeah, sure, we're going to treat them the same way that we used mob violence against the mormons. why is that such a powerful and revealing letter? >> joseph smith declared in 1843 the state's rights doctrines are what feed mobs. essentially what he meant is if the federal government is powerless and unwilling to step in and protect minority groups from mob violence, that it condones the action. and was he right? this is what i bring up in the conclusion. well in 1854, the mormons have moved out to utah territory.
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missouri is again dealing with an unwanted political minority. this time it is the abolitionists as we're getting closer to the civil war. and they're causing problems in missouri for the leadership. and david atchison, a sitting u.s. senator, back in the 1830s, was one of the militia men who expelled the mormons. he wrote jefferson davis and explains what he means mormonites. he uses mormons as a verb saying we will be forced to burn, hang, and shoot to get rid of this minority group. essentially they had done it to the mormons, and they got away with it, and so why not do it again? and that's exactly what they do. and in that sense, joseph smith was right, that the states rights doctrines fed mobs. it condoned mob violence as a way of dealing with unwanted minority groups, unwanted of course being the view of the majority group. that's their words, not mine. >> right.
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[laughter] >> okay. that's my last question, so i guess we can now move on to q&a from the audience. well done, spencer. >> thank you. those were good questions it was fun to have the conversation. >> it was lovely to hear from you and earlier before things started, nancy said that she speaks the same historian language, which is very true. it was so delightful to hear you ask questions with the kind of knowledge and background that you have and great to hear the things you know so well, been such a treat. all of you in the audience, if you have questions, please go ahead and put them in the chat, and we will filter them up to our guests.
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oh, all right. so we have one from megan. i will read the whole thing. this has been fascinating. thank you. could you say more about how the council of 50 [inaudible] smith's presidential run? >> the council of 50 is an organization -- it is a secret organization that joseph smith creates in nauvoo. it is originally created to answer one question, should the mormons move to texas? because even as joseph smith is running for president, he's looking at other options to get around states rights, and one of those options was to leave the united states all together. texas had a problem. they had a disputed border with mexico, and the best solution was to get settlers there and if the settlers came with their own militia, even better, so the mormons entered secret negotiations with sam houston in texas. they never amount to anything. but the council 50 is formed for that purpose, and then they begin having these questions of
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politics and religion, this idea that the second coming of jesus christ is going to lead to a millennial government. what is that government going to look like? can we get a head start? essentially, can we get it started? but the council of 50 then kind of becomes this catch all for political questions in nauvoo. it manages much of his smith's political campaign. they petition -- or they're influential in petitioning to have nauvoo turned into a federal city, essentially another way around the states doctrine, let's make nauvoo like washington, d.c. let's give the mormons a track of land in the western territory so they can live by themselves. this council 50 becomes very much like a political advisory group for joseph smith, among other things. it's also where joseph smith appears to be a very moderate voice. in most rooms, joseph smith was
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in he wasn't a moderate voice. we get people like brigham young who then goes on to utah. we get a sense of brigham young's view to politics that's foreshadowing what happens decades later. the council 50 becomes this really important feature in nauvoo in those last months of joseph smith's life, and it kind of becomes a place that all these questions of politics go to. >> fascinating. i have another one here. how much did joseph smith's notion of polygamy factor into their persecution? >> yeah, so what's very interesting about polygamy in the nauvoo time period of mormon history is it is being practiced secretly. most people not involved don't really know much about it. there are rumors that kind of filter out, but there's so sensational they seem difficult to believe, and they are
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sensational lies -- and they are sensationized. generally speaking it doesn't have a lot to do with the persecution, but where it comes into play, many of the people who kind of leave the church that joseph smith is leading and the men that publish the newspaper that he ultimately ordered to destroy, is they are trying to expose is the practice of polygamy. joseph smith sees this as a great danger not just for how it's sensationalist polygamy but it is going to bring more attention on to the practice. eventually when people think of mormons and polygamy, they think of brigham young practiced out in utah, practiced out in the open. it wasn't practiced like that in nau voo, it was practiced by a very small circle of mormons in nauvoo. i had did draw some ire, but the persecution was happening even when people had no idea of that
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marital practice. great question. >> i have -- oh, someone else has a question too. i have one, but i will ask casey's first. you mentioned returned missionaries as political helpers for joseph smith. what exactly did they do? did they go door-to-door? >> yeah, so i mean if you see mormon missionaries today, they are hard to miss, white shirts and ties and nametags and often do go door-to-door. back then they would travel the country but more have public meetings, often go back to the states in which they were from, where they had friends and families, and they would go and hold these -- when they were preaching religion, they would have religious meetings. when they were preaching politics, they would have these political meetings. they held a nominating convention in almost every state of the union, where they gathered smith's supporters and selected electors, just in case he won the popular vote in a given state, which wasn't going
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to happen, but that's one of those signs that they were taking this seriously, because i can't -- i've voted in so many presidential elections, i can't tell you the name of a single elector i have voted for ever. if this was just public relations, you don't need to select electors. but they would also go as kind of instead of a religious track, they would have smith's views on the policy and powers of the united states government in their hands. and this caused problems for some of them. in tennessee, and many of the southern states, there were laws against distributing abolitionist literature, and because the pamphlet called for the end of slavery, there were incidents in tennessee where the mormon missionaries were surrounded by mobs, not because of their religious beliefs, but because they had a pamphlet they were reading from that condemned slavery. yet, in kentucky, another slave state, and this kind of foreshadows its position in the
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civil war, even though there was a law against distributing abolitionist material, there was a willingness to at least talk about it in kentucky. and so they didn't face the same opposition in kentucky that they did in tennessee. in new york city, the election missionaries started campaigning newspaper on printer's row, where about where pace university is in lower manhattan, if anyone knows the geography there. and they published a newspaper to get the campaign material out into the newspaper exchange. newspapers used to borrow articles from each other and reprint them. the mormons are very savvy about this. even though they are a long shot presidential campaign with no chance, they are using every avenue that they can to reach the public, so yeah, that was what the life of an electionary missionary looked like, you kind of canvassed with these public meetings and the distribution of the pamphlets.
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>> it is good training, that kind of canvassing becoming part in parcel with politics now. we have another one from the audience. is joseph smith's contention that he was supernaturally chosen to be a religious leader impact his credibility to be a presidential candidate? >> yeah, so -- that's a good question. you know, joseph smith was a religious leader, but his followers believed him to be a prophet, similar to moses or abraham in the bible. and so i think for his followers, for members of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints, i think this actually was a benefit, this idea that we could have a prophet be the president. i think for others, i don't know if it increased the already existing fear of combining
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religious and civic leadership, but it did set him up for mockery more easily than say if a pastor or a minister of a church ran for office because, you know, it set him up for jokes about a man who can speak with god who claims to be informed by god of what is to come, you know, why is he running for president, so on so forth? so i don't know if it drew any extra ire, this idea that he was viewed as a prophet, but it certainly set him up for mockery and did lead to kind of these bigger conversations, people who weren't necessarily afraid that he might actually win, his candidacy forced conversations in the public sphere about what it means to have such a person for political office. >> okay. i think we have used all of the
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questions. now i will ask mine. i'm pretty sure it is a question that every author dreads hearing when promoting a new book, but i'm curious in your role with the joseph smith project, have you found any other aspects of his life that you are hoping to write about, you know, when you've had time to finish talking all about the presidential campaign? >> yeah, you know, it's a blessing and a curse when you work with such an amount of documents and they are brought to your office whenever you need them, that essentially you have a research agenda for life, if you want one. and there are so many aspects of this that i would love to write about, but, you know, and this is the trouble of being a historian, actively reading and writing, there are so many books i would love to write, and there just is not enough time.
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i may one day write another book about joseph smith or early mormon history. my initial training is in, you know, religion and politics, broadly speaking, early america, and i have some ideas related to some of these figures from the founding era, of people like thomas payne, joseph priestly that i think i would like to explore too. so the material's there if i ever go back to it, but there's so many other projects calling. i think i'm leaning towards one in that area next. >> that sounds great. i'm always fascinated by, you know, what projects authors are drawn to, after they've submitted a manuscript, and it's come back from a printer, and now it is in readers' hands. >> this part is to finish the project you've got before you start a new one. >> oh, yeah, i think that's true
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regardless of any creative practice. ask the parent of any creative kid why they haven't finished whatever thing they have started. i'm so glad that both of you were able to join us this evening. thank you to spencer and to nancy. it's been a delight to hear you. and thank you to everyone who joined us this evening. it's a thrill to be coming to you from the actual store here in los angeles oldest independent bookstore. i will put the link to the book one more time in to the chat, and i do see a couple other questions have come in, and i
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will pass on this comment to you, doctor. one of our audience members says i read your biography. it is interesting to think about the partisanship. clearly we weren't the only ones who thought you would be great in conversation today. thank you all again. this video will be available on our youtube channel in a few days. again, you can order signed copies of the book as well. thank you all, have a great night. here's a look at some books being published this week, in how i save the world, fox news commentator jesse waters reflects on his career and weighs in on american politics. former prosecutor and cnn senior legal analyst ellie hoenig takes a critical look at former
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attorney general barr's time in the trump administration in hatchet man and in how to raise a conservative daughter, michelle easton offers her thoughts on how to pass down conservative values to young women. also being published this week, columbia university religion professor hendricks jr. argues that conservative evangelicals do not uphold christian values in christians against christianity. in three days at camp david, jeffrey garden looks back at president nixon's decision to end the connection between the value of the u.s. dollar and the gold standard. and journalist emily bass examines u.s. efforts to stop hiv and aids in africa in to end a plague. find these titles this coming week wherever books are sold. and watch for many of these authors to appear in the near future on book tv. c-span shop.org is c-span's
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on-line store. there are a collection of products. you still have time to order the congressional directory with contact information for members of congress and the biden administration. go to c-span shop.org. ♪ ♪ we'll return to book tv in a moment. next the u.s. senate has a short
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pro forma session with no votes schedule. most senators are in their home states today celebrating the 4th of july holiday weekend. now live to the senate floor on c-span. ashington,d.c., july 5, 2021. to the senate under the rules of the senate i hereby appoint the honorable jon ossoff, a senator from the state of georgia to perform the duties of the chair. signed patrick j. leahy. president pro tempore. the presiding officer: under the previous order, the senate stands

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