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tv   Washington Journal Jennifer Morrell  CSPAN  May 28, 2021 4:47pm-5:31pm EDT

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the bonus, patient. [laughter] thank you, everybody. [laughter] >> they are very patient. seventeen years worth. [inaudible] [laughter] >> u.s. senate wrap up work and now out for the memorial day break. it repugnance block proposals are created a commission on january 6 attack on the u.s. capitol. republicans voted in favor but it still fell short of the 60 votes needed. eighty-four -- 35 with 11 senators not voting. they debated science and technology bill this week but were not able to finish. the elbow on that when they come back from the memorial day recess june 8. follow the senate coverage here
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on c-span2. >> we want to continue our conversation on election audit, in particular what's going on in arizona, georgia and welcome, jennifer. a partner in a group called elections group joining us from salt lake city. thank you for being withia us. >> great to be here. >> we will talk about your organization in a moment but first, your recent piece in thee washington post with the headline, i watched the dop election audit, it wasi worse than you think. what did you? why was it worse than you think? >> conductgu elections, recounts and audits in accordance with state laws and statutes so i have come to expect pretty difficult things even though elections have been done slightly different, recounts and audits follow a similar pattern. the thing, the most stark thing was walking out on the floor and
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seen colored conveyor wheels of ballots, normally when we review and auditing or recounting the ballot, we take our time with it and do it slowly and in small increments, humans are terrible at this, that out counting so most jurisdictions you will find them doing those r things in stacks of five or ten and aor verification that both, usually bipartisan two-person team to review. somebody spinning that quickly recording not one but two races on the tally sheet so that was the first thing. lots of instances throughout the process where there was lack of quality control or lack of verification.th then the forensic paper audit they are doing, it was really bizarre. looking for things like bowls on
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ballot as evidence of fraud, certainly something we have not seen in other election audits, client can play out find that so that was concerning. part of the at the time was the use of cameras andes equipment attested for so that was a bit of learning. the worstl. part is process and procedures. when you walked into an official jurisdiction electionfi office, whether it's election or recount or audit, procedures are going to stay the same throughout the audit. these continue to evolve even as we speak today. >> why was the audit conducted? was it necessary? there were two previous investigations by local election officials in maricopa, and arizona, the largest county population wise in that state so why did it take place, who
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initiated it? >> great question. my understanding is the request of the senate and its concerning because he said, not only does maricopa run elections, they did a fairly robust count on after the election, no evidence on fraud or discrepancies or official -- the official results recorded so it does seem odd that again we are asking for the proof that the f outcome was wht was reported. >> vast majority of republicans will feel the election was wrong, donald trump won the election, there was fraud in the states across the country. >> yes, i think there is no end to that. as long as we have elected officials, the senate in
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arizona, the case being the is busy theories, we could continue going down this path forever. i think george is a great example where they did multiple audits, they had an investigation by the georgia state police, signature verification audits and found no evidence of fraud, no change in the outcome and yet we see another group coming in demanding to look at the ballots was easy to see that this could continue until they find the answer they want to find, until they get, until they hear what they want to hear and if an audit is done correctly as it has been already, the outcome is what it is, it's not going to change. >> what is the election you are partnering in? what you do and who funds it?
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>> we are a private organization and provide f support, state and local jurisdictions, our team is made up of election officials formerly. >> i want to go back to theic issue for potential bamboo with some of the ballots, what was that about? >> i don't know. there wasn't a conspiracy theory guess thatt ballots were shiftd from korea, north korea, to maricopa county and somehow mysteriously flipped it to the official ballot and i think what is interesting about this is again, the intent of the senate was to find issues to ensure the election was correct, they could have taken the opportunity to go down the election officials in maricopa county and learn about all the safeguards and mechanisms that would have prevented anything like this
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even though it is so bizarre from happening from the audit trails that follow where the ballot is requested and issued and sent to the chain of custody requirements required when retrieving ballots, checking ballots and for voter credit, all the way through counting, scanning and counting the ballots so there's a number of guardrails that would have prevented a that from happening andm yet they decided to chase down this crazy theory that compounds t the fibers of the paper to tell us there was broad but. >> in terms of guardrails, are there things not in place that should be to ensure that elections are free, fair and accurate? >> yes. we can go back to one of the things that paper audit was looking for, security markers on the ballot. that is one of the guardrails.
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one thing that's already there when the election officials do logic and accuracy testing of their equipment, they ensure that voting equipment is programmed to only read ballots for that election by that office printed by the office those mechanisms are already there. maricopa is a great example of jurisdiction above and beyond that, after the election goes through that same test procedure again to ensure nothing has changed during the course of the election so there are already pre-and post tests to ensure that happens. could we do better? sure. we are always looking for ways to improve the process, ways to makee elections more secure. we are always chasing that but the important thing is we do it in accordance with law.
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we don't get to just make up our own rules or bring in our own auditors and call it an audit, makeup procedures as we go, have to follow the law so there are things that need to be changed or fixed to make elections more secure, there is the process for getting the law changed and i don't need to go into that but that is really important to know. i think the other thing here to be concerned about when we talk about security is state and local officials, local election officials are custodians of the ballots in the ballot equipment and that equipment has been moved from their custody to a third party external organization and that is concerning. obviouslyy did d.o.j. was concerned about that. >> we been talking about arizona, what's happening ine georgia? >> my understanding is there is
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a group, an organization calling for an examination of the male ballots. again, we have done several audits including account audits of the male alice. there has been a review already of the chain of custody, ballot counting paperwork that ensures it was accurate, they are asking to have a review, my understanding is thankfully this time the ballots will not leave the custody -- too many elections and audits. of the election officials but rather the folks coming in will be allowed count. >> let's get to viewers and listeners. bill from virginia. >> good morning, appreciate your comments. the only thought i have before i make my name on it, you need to know where the camera is, you keep looking up and over the camera, it is distracting.
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>> thank you, sorry. [laughter] >> the other thingkn is, i am concerned about the audits. >> sorry, say that again, what is the problem with the audits? >> election and integrity, you would think you'd be interested in pursuing. >> i am a huge advocate of election audits and i have spent a lot of time writing and talking about broader audits along the whole spectrum so all of these audits have focused on postelection tabulation audits looking at did the voting equipment operate correctly? my concern is the audit is being done by an external group, we have removed ballots from the custody of election officials and i'm all about more audits but we need to do it in
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eeaccordance with, under the law so one of the things as we serve these other ideas, we have done lots of pilots across the country with different methods with postelection tabulation audits, we involve working groups and experts test out theories before we put them into practice in an official way so i think that's the danger here, we have an organization, their procedures haven't been vetted, their practices aren't in accordance with the laws of arizona and maricopa county and we relieved the custodians, we have taken the ballots from them in the voting equipment from them and give it to somebody else who by the way has not taken the same oath or have the same legal obligation state and local officials do to protect and maintain the ballots.
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again, in accordance law. >> a group called the elections group, she's joining us from salt lake city. both in colorado and utah, a graduate from webster university and veteran of the u.s. air force. thank you for your service. angelala from maryland. good morning. democrat line. >> good morning, some of my. georgia and arizona after all the audits were done and any court cases as far as fraud going to court, they have changed the state laws now to say that everything looks fine but we still feel there is an election fraud so we are throwing out results and we get to pick the electors. ... legal expert,
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but my understanding is they cannot, so all of these audits that are happening right now, really, i think, are just to continue this narrative that there was a steel or some sort of fraud. they are knocking to be able to change post your next call is from joan laguna woods california. good morning. >> caller: thanks for taking my call. i'm a 30-year navy veteran and the critical thing on the subject is that every american understands we are at war right now. the domain is not the city it's not the land it is not the air it's in cyber in that election was stolen. to have this fraud on tv is very disappointing and if you think of december 7 that was a attack
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on our country and november 3 at 2020 was worse. every state of the union was attacked and we need to stand up and bebe patriots for this couny that people are trying to dismantle an globalist to want to destroy the country with violence in our streets and dominion voting systems rigging thisnc election and to have this person on tv are tending to be ethical in a military vet is discussing to look at. >> host: are you still with us joe? you mentioned dominion voting and there's a lot of controversy with that. your evidence and what is it that there was outside influenc in the elections that gave the election to joe biden over donald trump? >> caller: i can't swear to their authenticity but i've seen plots that they have stopped election fraudulently at night and they had all the observers leave and hundreds of thousands
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of votes, 100% from right in the middle of the night which is statistically impossible and i've seen video on "cnn" when the vote count decreased. when you're counting votes on election day the numbers should never decrease. they should only be added to an and 6000 votes were subtractedev from trump i think in pennsylvania just like their representative said. our election was far weaker and more vulnerable than what he supervises and army vet, an army service guy in ape yanis dan and iraq and a he said it can't be y accident. this had to be intentional. they wanted this weakness to exist so they could manipulate it as they've been doing for years. we need to reallyhe clean house and every institution in america as you can see he has a brain from the cdc to our education systeme and of course our intel agencies are the main culprits on this.
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9/11 air force resources that packed the u.s. navy and the pentagon that killed people that were auditing fraud at that level in this stuff has to end. >> host: you are putting a lot out there. let's stick to the other issue of election fraud inck to that point jennifer morrell do you want to respond to joe's very? >> guest: i'm just curious i want everyone to remember in every jurisdiction in every state across the country elections are done at thee locl level by neighbors and both parties and i'm talking about polling centers representing both parties and workers come in representingng both parties. we have observers representing all the candidates in the major parties and then when we talk about some sort of massive fraud
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or conspiracy theory or something happening in the middle of the night it's important for people to remember that it would be impossible for that to happen without some of these people that are working. all of the people that have taken notes and all the people that come in to help when all of these elections in november or were certified they were done sd by election boards stayed towards a collection and bipartisan boards to have an opportunity to review the documentation and review the results review they ballot worksheets and all of those things and reach the conclusion that the bills or being status -- certified record and the election was conducted with integrity and i think there has been this tremendous effort since 2017 when elections were
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designated as critical infrastructure by the election community and by the civil community to ensure all those that the caller happened couldn't happen. aas massive effort to deal with the cyber issues and to enhance security and to enhance auditing and testing in all of those things. >> host: a point from a viewer in social media who says watson a lot to help democrats keep republican states on the law and order? the arizona audit is now being called a fraud. nothing is illegal no transparency in the process the chain of custody and security and cyber ninjas is uncredited, never did audits. your response. >> guest: i think there does need to be some accountability for individuals who continue to amplify this narrative
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specificallyun about our electin leaders. i think and i said this earlier but i willl reiterate it again i think to pony and on the security of the election to look for ways to improve it we must first spend time understanding all of the security methods that are already being done to continue to amplify these false claims and at some point we have those folks accountable. watson a lot to prevent it from continuing? my expertise is in election operations so i'm not the expert here to answer that but i think there needs to be some accountability. >> host: there might be a text message from minneapolis with a simple question who is funding the arizona audit? >> guest: i'm not sure we know. i don't know other than white we
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have seen reported in the first $150,000 of that audit supported by taxpayers and the rest of it which we know is going to far exceed that based on the coliseum that they are renting and the number of days they are renting it on the 14th and its continuing and we don't know whatwh it's going to end althouh the security they have there in all the people they have hired in all the equipment is put together so we know the costs are far exceeding that but we don't know. it's privately funded. >> host: this is a response to an earlier caller jody sang jennifer has kind eyes with her credential and what's the proof that she is not uninformed? as a cyber attack by dominion and democrats who can't walk and chew gum pulled off this election fraud. get your story straight. that's from a viewer about another caller.
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good morning on the democrats line. >> good morning. i am a vietnam veteran and i'm trying to understand the role of the judges in this whole mess. i'm trying to understand if it's against the law to take a government-run election a batch of information and give it to a private organization why is there no penalty and why would the judge allow that o to happe? >> guest: again i'm not a legal expert and i don't know that i can answer why that happens. we do know that the department of justice did send a letter to the senate reminding them of that custodial responsibility and asking them to ensure both ballots and that equipment remain safe.
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>> host: harry joining us from lawrence new jersey. good morning, you are next on the republican line. trying again for harry. is he with those?we >> caller: yeah was good good morning. >> caller: i've been calling -- following this kind of closely and from what i'm understanding these audits are going a little further into the dominion side of things you know where that really wasn't done to any great detail and all i know is during election night when i went to bed trump was leading by hundreds of thousands of votes including about 700,000 in pennsylvania and then overnight the next morning when i woke up in every state it was turned around. now you know this election was
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the first election that was held basically with absentee and mail-in ballots and i kind of thought that was funny and we have these big spikes of alex being in the middle of the night all of a sudden going the other way and these are audit that are transparent and you know from what i'm understanding the democrats in every way they can are trying to stop it. they are sending lawyers and the doj and i'm understanding that even hillary is sending lawyers. if it's transparent and if the election was secure and clean like this lady is claiming why is there such opposition and why is there so much -- people coming in to try to throw
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roadblocks in their. >> host: harry thanks for the call. jennifer morrell and this was written before the election the so-called red mirage mystery after the final votes are counted. >> guest: yeah let the go back to the first part of the caller's question around the dominion voting equipment and remind callers that equipment was used as as many states that went for trump is went for biden and used successfully for yearse now. continues in every election in every jurisdiction in every state uses it just like the other vendors. tested prior to every election and goes through an audit after the election we also know that mayor had to come in and review their equipment just to ensure and try to relieve any concerns that there were no issues with that equipment. regarding that ship keep in mind
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as the caller indicated some of these states ended up shifting to biden are states that sought exponential growth in mail ballot voters in states like michigan and pennsylvania and wisconsind that couldn't start counting those ballots for preprocessing them prior to election day. there were also states that were were get around-the-clock working through the night and 24-hour shifts so it wasn't hosurprising that those of us who've worked in elections are states like i have in colorado where the bulk of those ballots comment onon election day and te processing goes through the night and through the next morning is not unusual to see a shift change. >> host: as you know republicans predict when
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pennsylvania claiming the democratic governor changing the election rules in pennsylvania and the pandemic as an excuse to have early voting which was not the case before november 2020. are what is your response? again i don't have all the information to what happens in pennsylvania but they are responding just like every other state was to covid. they were considering how to ensure everybody had access to votes in a way that was safe imparted that was opening up satellite offices to help individuals receive the mail ballot. >> host: a tweet from one of our viewers saying republicans must yell fraud even though they won more seats in 2020 to end the democratic republic. this is text question from devin
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please explain that absentee ballots get counted last and just a moment ago and this from jann saying let's talk to south carolina and kentucky. on the republican line from wisconsin, good morning. todd, are you with us? we will go one to miami, florida. go ahead please. >> caller: yeah so basically i'm independent or whatever and i felt like it is what it is. you just showed us everything on the screen and even madam speaker pelosi got up and said and not sober there is no way trump is going to win. they said it and declared it and they did it. some people aftercl the electios
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the democrats were jumping around. i know it's not funny but a is a but may jesus be with us all. hunter biden should be put in jail. joe biden should be put in jail and hillary clinton should be put in jail. let's go we leave it at that and go to george on the democrats line. .good morning. >> caller: good morning. i'm so glad i found they got i found the god and like to say i watched the elections all night accounting the recounting election night. i've been voting since i was 18 diand it was note different than it was when i was a little girl growing up in 72. trump put this in people's mind to play this game and people actuallyam believe that it was
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going to berate and that's what's on everybody's minds. i could see it in one other thing i'd like to mention is that i saw nothing wrong with the elections. i feel inct my heart because a t of african-americans and other people got out and finally voted and people are so angry about it and that's why we are having this problem right now. from high school until now it's just a bunch of people that hate the fact that people a of color, all colors got out and finally voted. >> host: jennifer morrell what you hearing this morning from our viewers? >> guest: i think it's as bigger issue of trust and it's at challenging issue. you know i wish i could take everyone of your viewers and listeners and have them sit down
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what i feel are trusted sources of information and that a state and local officials who raise their hand and have takenst an oath to conduct the election in accordance with laws of their states and the constitution and really sit down and listen and walk through how the process works. i think the misinformation the mal information and information that put out has been done so intentionally and i don't know how we as a country can go back to a place where we feel confident about our local officials and i think it's important challenge to tackle and auditing is one part of that. i think there's a communication and information part as well that we need to tackle and whether that's going back to
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education or whether or not we are thinking about we can share information they think it's an important issue to reckon with and certainly one that i'm going to be focused on and i want everyone to feel confident in every party about how the election was conducted and more importantly how the outcome of our election. >> host: let me follow up. what would it take to get there to restore that trust? what has to happen from what you've heard so far? >> i think we need more of our leaders to come out against the conspiracy theories. i think their endorsement of those is one of the most dangerous parts of this. it gives credibility to that and i think the media has done a pretty awesome job understanding how the election worked last november and trying to inform voters of that. we have a responsibility as
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citizens to learn how the process works to ensure one another that the elections were conducted fairly and accurately and election administrators were voting as well. there are some that do a phenomenal job with all the things that i mentioned the tese auditing. there are others that probably could make some improvements. we have all got some work to do. >> host: we are talking with jennifer morrell partner at the elections group joining us from salt lake city and pam was on the phone from auburn washington republican line. good morning. >> caller: good morning. i'm curious on the elections and the gentleman from new jersey said trump during the day was up and at night he went down like the graveyard shift. what arest you doing about the
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people the dead coming back to votes? are those people removed from the list of voters or were they counted? >> host: thank youou pamela. >> guest: the a lot -- electronic registration center a majority of states now are members of that. they get regular app dates from vital records within their own states notifying them when someone has deceased and removing them from records. it's probable there might be individuals that use the timing of their death and that's why we have other safeguards in place
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especially around mail ballots with signatures and things like that to try and ensure doesn't take their ballot and voted on their behalf but i would say most states do a great job and certainly her state, the state of washington is a leader doing a fantastic job one of the best in the country and voter rolls. >> host: this is from libya tweet saying independent callers saying the state line is supported because speaker pelosi said trump won't win and don't you bringing up hunterer and hillary saying these wacko doodles cracked me up. from berkshire vermont on the democrats line, good morning. >> caller: pardon me, good morning. i think people fail to remember
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that prior to november 3 at trump's the hest as i remember, that he insisted the mail-in ballots not get counted until after november 3 and he pressed that to the extent of which there were many state legislatures and i know pennsylvania was one of them and i'm pretty sure george or was one of them where they they'll were not allowed to count the ballots until after the physical vote if you will and november 3 occurred and that's what the numbers change. biden won the popular vote by 7 million so with the argument that the right has now one could argue in 2015 when hillary won
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the popular vote by 3 million that in theory they want to use this argument that trump stole the vote from hillary. if i'm wrong on and it might winds please correct me and thank you very much. >> host: jennifer morrell. >> guest: i guess it's a timing question. the caller is correct there are some states that don't allow reprocessing of those mail ballots until election day and they started in the morning for the important thing for listeners and viewers to realize is it is a process meaning those ballots are received and they have to be checked in so the voters get credit for having return the ballot. often they go through a verification process and they
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may need signature barricade -- verification and they have different apartments for that. might be filling out the affidavit correctly for having a witness or whatever the requirements are in the state. once you've gone through that process the ballot is separated from the identifying information on the envelope and those are scanned and throughout that process they are tracked and accounted for. all of thatt takes time so when you don't get started until election day and you to have more than half of your votes as was the case in large jars duchenne's like philadelphia not coming untilng election day thas going to take days to get through all of that processing that has to be done and we do it as that's the way we ensure fraudulent ballots aren't sent in and we catch those. states like washington or colorado where there
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predominantly mail-in ballots they are not tabulated and a lot of those steps that i mentioned by checking in and derek -- verification opening. on election day we simply run the tally so that is faster considered window states going from 10% of their electric and absentee ballots to 70% but not allowed to be processed or countedno until election day we knew that would be behind the curve and they did a phenomenal job. they got through that much faster than most of us anticipated that we knew there were going to be ballots coming in later. >> host: or next caller is from arizona carolyn from i chandler arizona on the democrats line. good warning. >> caller: good morning. i'm calling to say i really feel
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like arizona is in a state of lishame right now. this audit i feel like republicans get their hands on my ballot and they have access to the machines that could be used in future elections. we are tofu have audits which sy that election was good. right now they are voter suppression laws. they are attacking kathy hoffman. they have already -- and i've voted for mccain at the time but the republicans have people like that are in there trying to do their deeds and one of the people who is doing the balloting check was the person who is that the insurrection. >> host: carolyn we will get you response. thanks for the call. >> guest: thanks carolyn.
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i appreciate that comment and i think it's important for citizens like yourself to remind your legislature to remind them that you voted to put your trust in your secretary of state katie hobbes.ka voters put their trust in the current clerk who happens to be a republican. i think we need to focus on a political issue and our are vote of trust in the election authority in our state and jurisdiction. they did so in accordance with the law and they did so with transparency and integrity. they have gone through audits and then some and i think we need to petition the senate for thisto to stop. >> host: the web site is bselections group.com jennifer
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morrell a partner with that organization joining us from salt lake city. thank you for being with us. >> guest: thanks for having me. >> i want to show you the view so as you can see it's the washington monument. it's one of the most beautiful views and all of the city. the president has stood at this very spot and this is where my husband joe and i sat at his inauguration to see the fireworks and weise felt so welcomed into office.
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what can i see in the air and space museum that i can't see anywhere else? your trip to washington d.c. saturday at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span.org or visit on the c-span radio app. during today's virtual hearing members a response bull for muting and unmating themselves. if you're recognized to speak if i notice you have not unmade yourself i will ask you to do that and if you indicate

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