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tv   Day 11 of Trial for Derek Chauvin Accused in Death of George Floyd  CSPAN  April 12, 2021 2:15pm-3:01pm EDT

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[inaudible] >> i have had a couple of patients who have had what we call pheochromocytoma which is a type of -- >> but in the hip area. >> no, generally it's near the adrenal gland which is sort of just near the kidneys but these pero gloomy oma's can pop up in different places. >> how are they typically identified? >> it depends. if it was clinically pertinent that is how i diagnosed the ones that i've had in the classic findings of the person that can say i'm always having headaches so what is with these headaches and i'm always sweating so why am i always sweating and you start to say i wonder if something is releasing. >> we are on the record. this is in regard to the motion this morning to either allow or
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deny the mission of mr. hall's question and answer statement given on an earlier occasion and i've had a chance to review the script of that, as well as case law and first of all, denying the defense motion to have the prosecution give an offer of proof or expiration of why they are not granting immunity and i think even as the super case cited by the defense notes that immunity the grant of immunity is an executive branch function and is not subject to judicial review and so regardless of what the states reason was for refusing to give immunity to mr. hall is not reviewable by this court so the request that the state provide a reason for not granting immunity is denied.
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with regard to the statement given by mr. hall and this assumes that he is not going to be answering any questions even if i order him to do so. i'm going to find that none of the statements in the question and answer statement are admissible. first of all, in johnson versus fabian i noted the basic standard for a fifth amendment claim and how broad it is and it tends to be much broader than eight oh 4b3. under the fifth amendment answers that within themselves supported conviction or that would furnish a link in the chain of evidence needed to prosecute the claimant or incriminate them for purposes of the privilege and in fact into fencing that that was from johnson versus fabian. which is 735 northwest second
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295 which is cited by the state and they also note that the privilege allows an individual to refuse to answer official questions and any other proceedings, civil or criminal, formal or informal where the answers might incriminate him in the future proceedings. that standard is obviously fairly broad and so they might increment eight the defendant or provide a link to other evidence that might incriminate the indication of the fifth amendment is appropriate. in contrast, eight oh four b3 states in part, pertinent part states a statement which was at the time of its making so far tenant select criminal liability that a reasonable person in the declared position would not have made the statement unless believing it to be true. in other words, if someone goes
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into the police department and confesses to a murderer generally people don't do that because unless it is true because it so clearly tends to subject the declarant to criminal liability and that is judged from the time of the statements making in the statements that are contained in the question-and-answer statements are in fact, not the type that would clearly be so far contrary to the declarant's penal interest or subject of that person to criminal liability that they would not make it less true. most important, for exam, mr. hill denies providing controlled substances to george floyd and talks about how he was appearing tired in all of that but the entire statements that seem to be mr. hall describing what does not incriminate him and willing to do that but when it comes to what he might've done he denies
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engaging in any activity like dealing so there are some sporadic references to dealing on the street but there is nothing specific at the time, date, location, persons involved that the person would be subjected themselves clearly to criminal liability. accordingly it does not fall under 804 b3 and under 807 statement not specifically covered by rule 803 or 804 may be admitted but must have equivalent circumstantial guarantees of trustworthiness and i see nothing internally within the question-and-answer statement that mr. hall's statements had any guarantees of trustworthiness and accordingly does not admissible under their room for that reason. the defense does have a right to a complete defense but since there are witnesses who can testify as to what and have testified as to what mr. floyd looked like the time i don't
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think that the rules of evidence must give way completely to any claim of this evidence is necessary for complete defense. i find it is not accordingly and is not admissible. any questions about that ruling from the state or from the defense? we have other housekeeping things but we will handle that after the jury unless you want to take care of some of those and we can do that after because we will be done before 4:00 o'clock, is that correct? >> why don't we deal with the housekeeping things "after words" but we will be in recess until -- maybe we can get them out in time.
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there are circumstances where people have serious medical conditions where they are maintained in the prone position, agreed? >> in the icu when patients are put into the prone position it is when it is the desperate attempt to save someone's life with their lungs have actually developed what we call acute respiratory distress syndrome or ards and they have a ventilator in to make sure that the amount there that they get no matter their position will always be enough and so, it is a funny thing to think about putting someone in the prone position in the icu on a respirator but because of a respiratory physiology that will actually help open up certain segments of the lungs that are needed for oxygenation but it is really
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important to keep in mind that they are on a respirator every single time to open up those long airways and they are usually on sedation as well to keep them comfortable. >> in my last question, doctor, is after someone, someone's heart stops, is it possible that they continue to respire? >> it is, well, i'm not sure i could answer that with certainty other than to say there are these things that are called agon dress so when i am in the intensive care unit with a patient who is dying and they go into cardiac arrest once in a while you will see them take one or two extra props and i'm not sure the exact mechanism or physiologically trigger for that so you could potentially see extra breaths for a short period
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of time. >> by a short period of time up to one minute? >> in my experience if the heart has completely stopped i would not expect to see the breathing continue for up to a minute but i might expect to see it to be seen for several seconds. >> no further questions, your honor. >> doctor rich, you were asked several questions that had to do with or of these had to do with the premise is blockage of mr. floyd's arteries. is blockage a proper medical term to you as a cardiologist to describe the narrowing and mr. floyd's arteries? >> so, when we try to use terminology that is not medical terminology, like to explain
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phenomenon, the term blockage i tend to use when the blood vessel is completely blocked. there is a blockage. i will usually describe if i have a patient like mr. floyd who has corner every artery disease like this i will usually use the term narrowing because the blood is still getting through in fact, the blood may be getting through just fine and there is no level of narrowing in fact. even in totally blocked arteries and this is what is fascinating that develops over time the territory of blood that that blood vessel is supposed to supply can still be getting enough blood because of those collateral vessels that develop so i would use the term with mr. floyd as narrowing. >> you were asked questions again about gangly oma's and i
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thank you told us that those are usually preceded by headaches of some kind, classically correct. >> one of the symptoms. >> that is right. >> again, did you hear amongst the various complaints mr. floyd man mad about pain, did you hear any of them being a headache? spirit no, in fact when i saw that there was a gang llama described as an incidental finding in the autopsy -- >> thank you, your honor. the state calls felonious floyd.
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spirit to swear or affirm under the testimony that your truth will be truth and nothing but the truth.
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>> we will test out the microphone. please state your full name. >> philonise o'neill floyd, ph il on ise, o'neill, o and eil, floyd. fl oid. >> good afternoon. sir, you are here to testify about your brother george floyd, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and before you tell the jury about your brother i would like you to introduce yourself to the jury a little bit so they know something about you. how old are you? >> thirty-nine. >> was george or older or younger brother? >> oldest brother. >> are you married?
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>> yes, sir. >> do you have children? >> yes, sir. >> how many children? >> to. >> sir, what state you live in? >> houston, texas. >> i would like you to tell the jury a little bit about your brother, george floyd. first, could you tell the jury where and when he was born? was born in north carolina but he left at a young age and he moved to houston, texas and i have two other sisters that are older than us, my other brother ronnie floyd who is my mom's baby boy. >> all right. was he born on october 14, 1973? >> yes, sir. >> and you said the family left
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statesville shortly after he was born, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and you all grew up in houston together. >> we all grew up in houston. >> who were george's parents? >> los india jones floyd and his father was george perry floyd. >> and did your mother -- spirit yes, that's my mother but she they called her ms. sissy. >> who called her ms. sissy? >> everybody called her ms. sissy. we just called her mom but everybody around the neighborhood called her ms. sissy and anybody that knew her called her that and they had to be like 50 years of age but everybody younger than that called her mom that was george's age. everyone called her mom because she was mom to so many people in the trinity. >> but community was that? >> that was in [inaudible] and i grew up in the housing authority
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projects that was low income, poverty, we stayed with each other all the time, me and george and we grew up together playing video games and his favorite game was on nintendo and replayed double dribble and we played [inaudible] and i finally beat him and a game and i was just so happy just thinking about he would say let's play again and i would be like no, i've got to go do my chores and and george used to make sandwiches and george could not cook or boil water so and also if you were in our house you would see george had limes on the wall because he would
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always measure with his height trying to see how tall he was because he wanted to be taller all the time because he loved sports so he always wanted to be the best and -- >> i will interrupt you for a minute and i appreciate you sharing that with us and i would like to show the witness what has been marked for identification as exhibit 284 and do you recognize the picture into 84? >> yes, sir. >> a picture of your mother and george when he was younger. >> permission to publish? >> sir, would you describe this photo and what you know about it. >> my mother is no longer with us right now and neither is my older brother george and i miss
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both of them and i got married on may 24 and my brother was killed on may 25 and my mom died on may 30. it's like a bittersweet moment because [inaudible] >> i would like to ask you questions about your mom's passing a little bit and if you need a moment and just let me know when you are ready. going back to growing up could you tell us what the jury what rule george floyd had as an older brother in that household? >> he was so much of a leader to us in the house and he would
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always make sure that we had our close for school. he made sure that we all were going to be to school on time and like i told you, george cannot cook but he would make sure you had a snack and he was one of those people in the committee that when they had church outside people would attend church just because he was there. nobody would go out there until they seen him. he was like a person that everybody loved around the community. he just knew how to make people feel better? and sir, you indicated that you were aware were george floyd went to school spirit he went to school at [inaudible] elementary
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and ryan middle school and then to the high school where he excelled in sports and investable and football. he had received a scholarship to a team in south florida college and from there he played basketball there and transferred to texas a&m where he played football. >> now, i would like to show the winick's exhibit 285 for identification. >> sir, you reckon eyes what's shown in exhibit 285? >> yes, sir. >> is that a picture of your brother when he was at the high school in houston. >> yes, sir. >> i offer exhibit 285. >> permission to publish? >> approximately how old would george floyd have been when this picture was taken? >> like 18 or 17. >> and he talked about basketball and playing
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basketball and if i could show exhibit 287 to the witness. 287. thank you. showing you what is been marked for identification exhibit 287 and do you recognize this photo? >> yes, sir. >> is this a picture of your brother in this photo? >> that's in south florida in the left-hand corner. >> i will offer exhibit 27. permission to publish? alright, you indicated that your brother was number five and on the far left. >> yes, sir. >> south florida, was that a community college? spirit yes, community college. i know there's a whole bunch out there because i met a lot of them. >> did george floyd maintain his
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level of fitness and love of basketball throughout his life? >> he loved to work out alone to play basketball. people, he loved teaching people to game of basketball. to me that is where i really learned how to play from him because he got a lot of guys on the court and show them what they needed to do to be better. >> and when he would talk about playing basketball with use any particular term or phrase? >> oh, he would say let's go hooping and we would always say, come on, let's go. we always went hooping and you have to hoop every day because if you don't go and shoot a whole bunch of shots like 50 or 100 shots a day and my brother would always say you would never be able to compete and it was big because you had to watch the stars and we watched michael and magic and watched everybody hoop
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every day. >> you indicated that george floyd was also interested in football and had a passion for football, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> when he played catch with you? spirit he would play catch with us and it's funny how i always thought that my brother couldn't throw but he never tended to throw the ball to me but always would throw it and i wanted to know i had to go to chase for it or die for it or when i came up to him one day and i said i see why you play tight end because you can't do it all and he was like, i don't want to though the ball to you because if i throw it to you you will never understand that you have to go get the ball and he said the ball should never come to you, you should always tell yourself i will go get the football because you have to attack the ball. that's what he told me. >> sir, was your brother or father. >> yes, sir. >> i will show you what is
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exhibit 290. do you recognize what is shown in his exhibit 290? >> yes, sir. >> is that a picture of your brother with his daughter. >> yes, sir. >> i offer exhibit 290. permission to publish. what is his daughter's name? smack jana. >> how old is she now. >> seven. >> sir, could you please, for the jury, describe george floyd's relationship with his mother. >> it was one of a kind. george, he would always be up on my mom. he was a big mama's boy. i cried a lot but george loved his mom and he was always be up on her and you know, every mother loved all her kids but it was so unique how they work with each other.
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he would light up on her in the fetus position like he was in the womb. i would see him every day and i would say or i would say parry, we call him perry instead of george and he would always say hold on, let me kiss mama before i come over there and being around him he showed us like how to treat our mom and how to respect our mom. he just loved her so dearly and when george, he found out that my mom was passing because she had to stay with us for hospice and he was talking to her over the phone but she perished before he even came down here so that right there and heard him a
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lot and when we went to the funeral george just sat there in the casket, over and over again that he would say mama, mama, over and over again. i did not know what to tell them because i was in pain too. we all were hurting. he was this kissing her and he did not want to leave the casket and everybody was like come on, come on and let's it'll be okay but it was difficult because, i don't know who can take that when you watch your mother and someone who loves and cherishes and nourishes you for your entire life and then they have to leave you. we all have to go through it but it is difficult and george was just in pain the entire time. >> sir, you indicated that your mother passed away may 30 of
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2018. >> yes, sir. >> you described senior brother george at the funeral, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> was that around the time that your mother's passing in the last time you saw your brother george floyd in person a life? >> yes, sir. >> did you maintain contact with him on the phone, through text and whatnot after that? >> yeah, we called each other. he would call and i would call him but we would talk a lot of times early in the morning because i was the truck driver so he would always be up talking to me and give us points on how to back up or how to do the shifting gears and different things like that and i had great teachers so i would also just explained to him what he needed to do and that level to get to
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that next here that is what he was doing to just listen and he became a student and always had to ask him for advice because he was my big brother. >> sir, and this is a yes or no question, were you informed that your brother george floyd died on may 26, 2020? >> yes, sir. >> thank you very much. i have no further questions.
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>> your honor, the state called seth. >> if you could remove your mask if you're comfortable doing so.
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let's begin by having [inaudible] >> my name is seth -- >> thank you, your honor. good afternoon. >> good afternoon. >> sir, how are you employed? >> i am an associate professor at the university of south carolina student of law and affiliate professor in the department of terminology, communal justice. >> how long have you been a law professor? >> in there for seven years now, almost seven years and two years prior to that in a teaching fellowship preparing to be a law professor. >> and do you teach academic courses at the south carolina law school? >> yes. >> what do you teach? >> criminal law, police, law and
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policies connect to conduct scholarly research? >> yes. >> what do you discuss? spivak studied the regulation of multiple aspects of the regulation of policing. >> i would like you to please describe your educational background for the jury so they can understand how you come to be a law professor at the university of south carolina. first, where did you receive your undergraduate education? >> florida state university in tallahassee. >> what was your degree? >> english with a focus in literature. >> before we get into your law career, did you take or have you always been in academia? >> no, i have not. >> what was your prior career before coming involved in academia? >> i interrupted my undergraduate education to take a job as a police officer with the tallahassee police department and later as an investigator went to the florida department of education and office of inspector general. >> i would like you to please describe to the jury your
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experience as an officer with the tallahassee police apartment. first, what year did you join the department? >> i applied to the department in 2000 and was employed in early 2001. >> can you describe the jury the training process that you went through to become a police officer in the state of florida? >> sure, florida has a academy requirement. i went to a regional police academy which means not an academy run by my particular agency but an academy the trains officers from a number of agencies in north florida. after finishing the approximately five, five and half months or so of academy training i went through additional preservice training at my agency in that month of classroom training additional sort of training and on training and went through four months,
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three and half months of the field training program. >> and after you completed your field training received assignments or assignment for law enforcement officer in tallahassee? >> yes, i did. >> i would like you to please describe the jury the high-level the different assignments you had as a police officer with that department? >> i was there full-time for just under five years in the entire time i was there i worked on patrol and that was our uniformed capacity of officers who are responding to calls for service or pulling over vehicles and the like. i have additional assignments as a patrol officer and i spent about two years on the special response team and i taught community both self-defense classes and child abduction and molestation prevention classes in the community and the like. >> as a patrol officer were you ever in a situation where you had to use force on an individual? >> yes. >> did you ever have to arrest
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somebody? >> yes. >> handcuffed a reluctant subject? >> yes. >> something you would routinely do as a police officer. >> yes. >> did respond to calls for services and rates police reports? >> yes. >> after you left the tallahassee police department took a job with those of the department of education. >> yes, florida's deferment of education as an investigator in their inspector general's office spirit please describe your general duties there. >> as an investigator i was charged with investigating waste, fraud and abuse within and affecting the department of education. the investigations were both administrative, for example, sexual harassment allegations within that garment of education and also criminal, private school tuition primary or there were other non- tuition voucher fraud criminal cases i was involved in. >> when did you describe to go to law school to enter law
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school? >> having put my undergraduate education on hold as an investigator i now had a regular day job so i was able to finish that degree and took me ten years to get a four year degree because i went slower than the average bear as i was coming up in the end of the degree we made the decision my wife and i made the decision to go to law school to continue to expand career options. >> where did you attend law school? >> university of virginia. >> what year did you graduate from law school? >> 2011. >> at what point did you enter academia generally? >> i clerked for a year after law school and worked for a federal judge based out of indiana for the year after law school and then began my fellowship after that clerkship. >> in your academic pursuits did you decide to build on the experience that you had as a former police officer?
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>> yes. >> also? >> as i began law school i really had no intention of becoming an academic and i had some outstanding professors between their influence and my interest in studying policing from an academic and legal perspective i realized there was a little bit of a niche where i could drawn some of the information that i had from first-hand experience to either ask questions that other academics may not have passed or to find answers in different places that other academics may not have thought to look. >> is that where you focused your research? >> yes, all my research has been on policing and the galatian and placing his you authored any scholarly public asians? >> yes. >> what sort of publications have you authored? >> i have written law review articles which is the academic
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or type of academic journal that scholars publish in and i've written for a number of different publishers and a number of different articles on a range of topics and officers and off-duty in the use of force and tactics in different ways of aspects of her legal system regulate the police officers and affect officer behaviors. >> have you authored a chapters of books? >> yes, i have a. >> what books or what publications have you authored chapters of? >> i think my most recent publication was in critical issues in policing which is a series of contemporary essays on policing that that chapter is on the relation of police violence as authored book on police misconduct and offering another one on use of force review right now. >> you published a book recently, is that right, where you co-authored a book?
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>> yes, i didn't. >> what is the title? >> evaluating police uses of force. >> and have a copy with you here. you co-authored that book with jeffrey noble and jeffrey halbert, is that right? >> yes. >> sir, are you a member of any professional organization? >> i am, yes. >> what professional organizations are you a member of? >> , member of the virginia bar which is a nonpracticing state bar association for attorneys and american society of evidence based placing of the national association of chief of police and i serve as an advisor to the american law institute principles of the law on policing and i'm a member or i believe technically a liaison to the american bar association working group on trust in the criminal justice system and
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there are probably a couple of other ones that i don't remember them all on hand. >> do you occasionally provide consultation to law-enforcement agencies in conducting use of force reviews through these organizations? >> not through the professional organizations but i do work with consult or do research with police agencies, yes. >> does that include providing educational instruction? , consultation. >> yes. >> and specific use of force reviews. >> yes. >> what agencies have you done that kind of work with? >> i have done training and investigational training with the sheriffs office which is the largest of law enforcement association or largest law enforcement agency in south carolina and i'm a member of the civilian advisory council with my local police department, columbia police department so i sit in command review boards which involve use of force in
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that context and i've done presentation and training at the center which is not an agency per se but the audience has representatives of the number of different state, local and federal agencies and i provided training and presentations to the alcohol tobacco, explosive senior staff at the command staff of the kansas city, missouri police deferment and i have all of those is a range of informal consultations and discussions on a range of issues with the number of agencies. >> are you a frequent speaker or lecturer in issues of policing and uses of force throughout the country. >> yes, although in the past year most of those have been presentations from my home be a zoom but yes, they are based all over the place. >> what organizations are you presenting to?
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>> i presented well over 100 times at this point to organizations that include the american judges association and the conference of chief justices and judicial conferences and a number of states and prosecution or defense conferences with the number of states and security conference in mexico city and a prosecution and defense combined conference in canada and most recently i've presented at several bar reviews symposiums and one hosted by the university or i'm sorry, by loyola university in chicago and that was this past week by the journalist criminal law criminology and that was the week before, i believe but the university of wisconsin that was also in this past week. >> having previously been retained as an expert witness? >> yes, i have. >> how often have you retained
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as an expert witness? >> i did not or been retained around 60 times at this point. >> have you testified as an expert witness before or as a deposition? >> yes, i have. >> a proximally how may times? >> a deposition i think over a dozen easily at this point, i believe. >> in those depositions have you testified as an expert witness in the area of use of force? >> yes, i have. use police -- >> heavy testified at a trial before as an expert and use of force? >> yes, i have, use of force including tactics and use of force and related issues. >> what courts have you testified in? >> federal court in north kalinin, federal court in south carolina, criminal court in georgia and i think that is it for trial in testimony but as you know most of these most cases don't make it to a trial.
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>> you are talking about positions and those are civil cases, is that right?
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>> yes, that's correct. >> now, you have been retained in this manner to provide testimony regarding the use of force that occurred on may 25, 2020 and the matter of the death of george floyd, is that correct? >> yes. >> having been retained you're charged a a fee for your services. >> alright, what is your fee or hourly rate? >> to a $95 an hour in this case. >> and received a different rate for trial days. >> i have a eight hour minimum on days i'm expected to testify, yes. >> and to date how much have you been compensated based on your work in this case? >> i would have to look at my records to see.
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>> we will leave the trial of former minneapolis police officer derek chauvin who faces charges in the death of george floyd. you can watch the rest of this any time at c-span .org and we also will be air the trial beginning at 8:00 p.m. eastern tonight right here on c-span2. now we take you to the floor of the u.s. senate to fulfill our 40 year plus commitment to congressional coverage. live coverage now of the senate here on c-span2. the chaplain: let us pray. almighty god, creator of all things, thank you for your unfailing love and compassion. lord, forgive us when we have fallen short of your will. we have spoken when we should have kept sen

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