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tv   Tobey Pearl Terror to the Wicked  CSPAN  April 3, 2021 4:50pm-5:41pm EDT

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launch and medical - and deadly monopoly pretty join with texts and tweets in a 9:00 p.m. eastern, and afterwards, former white house press secretary and "fox news" host talks about her book, everything will be okay. life lessons for younger women, former young woman. she's interviewed by victoria clark former assistant to press secretary for president george w. bush administration. let's book tv this weekend on "c-span2". next on book tv, tony pearl recounts the first murder trial in the plymouth colony. >> i was pleased to have read this book in prepublication and full draft form and i can say is
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an engrossing story meticulously researched and extraordinarily well told. and as a writer myself, both of nonfiction books and articles always interested in how the sleds on the subject that they decide to write about. tell me toby how this played out with you. toby: thank you and that's a great question prayed and want to thank everyone for being here. i've had so any any wonderful comments and thank you so much. especially with a virtual events, not always easy to attend. so thank you friends and family i'm delighted and this is been a home away from myself and we think of it as for our kids they enjoyed any of these first books. and throughout . [inaudible].
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so i'm trying to remember which year it was. i think it was in 2016 the my husband matthew was another give me membership. the local. [inaudible]. [inaudible]. is a world-class research resource in boston for research. we had no long before. in the process of starting a family had sparked my interest in genealogy. i started it revealing some history and ancestry in the process turns out we have family
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from the colonies. [inaudible]. and looking into his life story, we he surfaced. [inaudible]. as a juror, i was quickly curious and wanted to know more about the events the more he learned the more i cannot walk away from the story. larry: and what a story it is predict to give us a synopsis of terrorist - wicked pretty. >> so it is a story that took place in 1638 on the outskirts of british colonies. there is a group of four who
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attacked. [inaudible]. [inaudible]. i was they were walking back on the woodlands path. and, i think the surprise of any people from the colonists times. [inaudible]. particularly at the specific time of war, that was one. indigenous and others like, attempted to come together and search for justice. and my bucket details not all of them but the subsequent manhunt in the landmark things that followed. larry: so finding out about this
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murder and subsequent events is what got you off and running. tobey: it did. it was such a remarkable story. and i was surprised it wasn't a story that to the popular attention of readers. certainly more of an academic circle. but the more i read the more i thought it was incredible story the really shed the light on our earliest attempt of democracy. larry: knew did say that was an indigenous person was murdered by four i guess they were servants, white service. do you want to read something from the book.
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tobey: yes. absolutely. i'm going to read a virtual event. i will keep this short. but i will read and few paragraphs, from the chapter of the murder itself. the name. [inaudible]. i'm going to read about the moment of his attack. the mormon rookie water into the swamp. [inaudible]. the injuries. [inaudible]. dark liquid and close by pursuers.
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[inaudible]. [inaudible]. critically injured. cried for help. and i try to navigate. [inaudible]. [inaudible]. the hours that she spent hiding. they write about the panic. lost in a similar way of violence. out from the right of heaven followed by darkness and on uncertain ground. this was the hour, i could not call in my fellow creatures. i was shut off from the world
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and did not know if i would actually perish there. and so it was the teaching of the peers, someone was lost in injured and disoriented. [inaudible]. his attacker. there was for who attacked him. miraculously, he was able to stay in survive and identify his killers. larry: and from there the plot thickens even more. what was your approach to the material like what library and
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archives did you find most of this information for your research and did you do any like place research like visit some of the sites that you wrote about in your book grade. tobey: absolutely. i visited all of the sites and i tried to spend a lot of time walking through the ruins in the area and trying to absorb exactly what it would've been like going to visit the site locations during the time of the year that he was assaulted. and i visited any archives targeted the historical society and other societies in the try to do a lot of non- archival research as well. i tried to fully cover each area that i wrote about in this book.
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and i tried to get the best detail in the archives gave a lot of good details regarding indigenous people and people of color and soldier so i try to go far and wide in spent a tremendous amount of time researching and indigenous research centers. ... ...
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>> and then about one year later there was a proposal and now it is published. but every bit of it has been a wonderful and inspiring adventure i've had my children with me and has been look like
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it was archival. >> is become sure finding all this information must of been fascinating for you. >> it was. and information turns up in the least likely places. and i was fortunate and i remember and then with the original document and then to see this page in the winter 63. and then transition. so then i got to the front of
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the office and then it was available but you had to be a lawyer. but i wanted to get a card that you carry with you and it happened just by chance i had in my wallet. and then that is the parchment that ended up in my book. very lucky to have a local photographer to work with me to take the superb image. and took a wonderful image. usually that parchment is with the jurisprudence here in america was under lock and key
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in the plymouth county registry if i had not done that i would not have seen it and i was so proud with this fabulous photographer that with the publication of my book, now it's out there for anyone. >> seeing in the book and to read it gave me chills. >> let me remind people that you can ask questions and we'll try to get to them at the end. i see some coming in now. let me check to make sure i know what i'm doing. some questions are coming in.
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i will try to get to them at the end of the book. >> your book subtitle list the impact of what you describe from america's first trial by jury. tell us all of those aspects. >> so those certain impulses at the time of the trial is 1638 it was is relatively small about 550 people and at
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that point in boston plymouth colony both in terms of population implement colony was struggling to keep up. it was a time of war in the colony. and then roger williams that i mentioned was very concerned as are many others at the time that other tribes could potentially be brought in. and there was real concern at that time to lead the military efforts from the colony and there were concerns that quite literally the colony was very vulnerable. so that reference is that
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circumstance of vulnerability. and then coming into a close. and also feel that the jury trial helped in a different way. and with this jury trial has the building block to the democracy. and when i described the governor ordering the jury trial in 1623 just to provide some context, half of the colonists coming from england died the first winter.
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and in 1623 it was a survival situation so i do think about that for a jury trial that didn't take a lot of research to uncover the environment that they had left in england. time when people were tortured, physically branded for their religious beliefs and this is what really spoke to them about a jury trial being the last point. we think about things that are important as americans like
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free speech there really was no free speech during this period the right to bear arms was privilege it's really the idea of a jury trial as the greatest protection for some kind of society. >> a trial of the jury of your peers. and doing your research for the book you uncovered some facts about the murder and the trial and the aftermath and the impacts of it. share with us what most surprised you. >> the one that i'm so proud that i could bring forward to shed light on in this event more than any other is the role of a young boy who had always been referred to as a
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messenger so with the attack there was a manhunt for the servant who had escaped. and then other than roger williams who sent his messenger that recorded on - - recorded in the archival material. >> the young boy? >> his name is will that when roger williams writes in his journals in his letters he doesn't meet him and it's probably a year or two years. being aware what he had
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written i had wrote it hundreds of times. and then looking for any expert detail i could research holding onto each word and detail what is the research? and then i thought wait a second. there is a whole other person to the story and i don't have a name for that person. and i began to providence rhode island anything that had been ever written and thank goodness for the professor who is a superb roger williams scholar i can read everything he ever wrote that had been
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published i could get my hands on. i didn't take long to figure out it was none other than a boy who was ten or 11 years old and he can track the killers and essential to apprehending them. because i think it's wonderful if we could call the history narrative in detail but most importantly include all of the players whether indigenous people and with the trans-atlantic slave trade there were so many details that needed to be brought to bear to be inclusive of everyone who was involved especially will who was so central to the events and
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through the country. >> i think readers of the book would be very gratified for the end of the book you tried to wrap up all of the characters and players and the drama in this real-life drama and what happened to them subsequently are subsequent to the trial and verdict. >> it made it come full circle that way. >> as you are a lawyer well immersed in my what was the most profoundly the way the murder trial was conducted? and as far as you could tell
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about the way the jury acted and deliberated what struck you particularly about the ultimate impacts of the trial? >> that's a great question. it was most that the jury trial worked enemy has seem like such a small matter but at the time going by what was written it was a ?-question-mark. with any of the federalist be able to have a jury trial and roger williams they needed 12 people to sit for the jury. and as i mentioned ultimately they decided to try the murderers with a population of
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550 so it was below the population in england and in 17 percent of the overall population were indentured servants who did not qualify and then religious entitlement did not qualify. it was remarkable even at all but then there was a real ?-question-mark whether jurors could release it down and delivery if they could provide justice for the indigenous men at a time the federalist were at battle with indigenous people and it was a ?-question-mark. there was no easy assumption to be made. >> again that maybe remind
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everybody who is here watching to post your questions under the ask a question box on the screen and we will get to them shortly. so where does the title terror to the wicked come from? >> from the ancestors that i mentioned i hope it shed light on the very start thinking of the day of good versus evil. and it captured some of my connections and the time and the thinking and while it's not so much i want to identify but perhaps more overcome the
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legacy and look back at the dark chapter to see what we could learn from it. and it is such an important idea in our country studying history to look back over the years and see what we can learn or take away from this and do better. there is nothing that learning lessons. but i do hope the search for equitable justice is something we can hold onto. >> do you say at the beginning of this event the role the ancestor played? when you publish the book? >> no.
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and i am fascinated with genealogy and with the's patterns and professions. it just strikes me but remarkably yes. at the judges trial. >> he was the governor of the colony at that point. >> that's right. >> i guess one more question than we will turn to some questions from the onlookers audience do you have the next project in mind? >> i do. i started working on a proposal. in 17th century new england
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who endured with that obstacle and every kind of setback you can imagine yet for the most incredible thing so i just found her incredibly compelling. i don't know how it will all come together but i have the same feeling of one - - feeling about her story. and i would be the honored to tell it didn't like governor prince is she also a distant ancestor? >> no. while she did not hold office she signed an international treaty which is really
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tremendous. >> interesting. we will be waiting with baited breath for that to come out. let's go to some questions. first of all who is your book dedicated to? >> for my children. ten, nine, and seven and they are watching. and then a second question is related to what was the process of writing the book given the challenges of parenting and the added degree on - - degree of difficulty with the pandemic? >> there are so many parents
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that are watching this that can relate. having children is such a juggle to work on something. for me the research and the writing worked with my schedule with children. i can work while they were at school. so i felt very lucky to have a flexible schedule if i wanted to work into the evening if they were asleep, i could never to be where you can imagine getting kids from one place to another if i was driving up a child somewhere and had to be back in an hour i would work in my car for an hour. about my dog with me. [laughter] i love having him in my side
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especially hiking in the woods. and then my kids came with me and many research trips. and then i can see my kids at the research center it is an annual tradition in our family progressive mentioned earlier and it has been such an enriching learning opportunity to learn more and every july there is a powwow open to the public. it has become a family tradition and enjoying getting
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to know more so i feel very fortunate to do. i encourage others. there so many other wonderful opportunities that connect with the rich history of indigenous people zero new england or anywhere in the country so i feel i have been fortunate to model that for my children with so much learning that can be done. also the second part with the challenges of the pandemic, i worked on the book for years but then when the pandemic rolls around the heart of the writing was over and i was able to do copy editing and i could do those relatively manageable he told the
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moderator this is actually my second pandemic i mentioned i was in hong kong during that pandemic so i had a little bit of experience trying to go about day to day activities with official business and doing all the subset with everybody do all of the world when there is an outbreak. >> by the way that question was asked by me and nathan and the first question i asked was asked by graham. just so you know. now the next question comes from cooper. it was the most interesting thing you learned while you are writing this book? >> i would say the most
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important thing is i learned a lot about myself. when i look back at different stages of my life i do not have the due diligence and the patient's to sit and a library which i often did that i would work in the library, bringing my lunch and eat at a desk. and i learned at this stage of my life that if you find something that is important to shine a light on with justice or something that you care about everybody has that in them to put their heart into
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it so when i dedicated the book to my children it stems from that because they really inspired. of out of applied myself that way if not for them. >> you found that very gratifying which i think will reinforce your efforts when you do your next book. >> there is one more question so the next impossibly last question is from judith watson please explain of the denture - - the indentured servant and the victim came together. >> a wonderful question. at the time there were those
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who had questions and the indigenous people were on the waterways with canoe but the footpath, they were called highways. it was one way to get from one place to the other. so they were on the path they were lost and hungry and then they were traveling the same footpath. and then to go to the trading outpost of the colony.
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and now present-day but at some point they decided to attack humans to what he had from him and that the next day that were lying in wait and then he calls him over to offer him tobacco so it is a trap so he makes them think it is a comfortable social moment
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but then arthur attacks and violently. and uses a dagger that was commonly used at the time you hear the question along that comment cloak and dagger. the dagger is that we used at the time but then he raced into the nearby swamp and head. then in the 17th century and into the 18th century there are local regional histories that detail there was a small island that no longer exist the topography had changed over the century. but i think it's very likely at the time it was until he could drive himself back to the nearby footpath and then
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can make that dying declaration of who his murderers were before he passed away. >> you said the footpads were the highways of the day back to the 16 hundreds is a wonderful book called american passage. the communications front tier where she talks about how vital those were as the needs of communication and interchange or even before the colonies were there. they were made by the indigenous people.
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this is from greg. how did you connect your initial genealogy research when did you find the ancestor that triggered this work? >> i was able to access ancestry and was familiar and what i discovered you have an ancestor who is connected to a historical event it's very possible another researcher has filled in the people for you and that is quickly what happened for me on my father side. since the's event happened , what i can tell when the first member of the family on
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my father side and man from the colony or somewhere nearby. and over 400 years i was the first one to grow up somewhere else. my family was so settled because one ancestor going back all of these years and those people go far back. so it seemed to work and with that connection that set on my mother side and her friendship and family has a very different and remarkable story
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and then the family history as well but it was easier of other people who it also researched. >> what is the hardest part of writing the book and implied in that and what's the hardest part of writing this book? >> that such a great question. thank you so much. i think the hardest part of the book is editing so i was riding in the car or the library wherever else i could find a spot i would write as quickly as i could to
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incorporate. it was a very long process to go back through and to ensure the book was clear and concise and chronological in all of the political work to make are writing enjoyable for others somebody asked me about being a writer. and i really really enjoy the book but is on his it is enjoyable so i encourage
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anyone who picks at my book to enjoy it. >> another question came in and probably this will be the last one before we have to wrap up from christina. are there any particular unsolved mysteries you wish you could find more information about? >> such a great question. there is a mystery. roger williams was a horrific letter writer i did hear some at the time which was very different and then to read through the language that writing is all over the place but i quickly realized had a
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limited literacy and not only is a prolific writer with beautiful penmanship and a thought process. and there is a lot out there that he wrote very carefully over the entry. the mystery has been that roger williams who was so careful with these and other writings that were mentioned surely wrote a last will and testament. and it is gone. and it shed light on the little boy that i mentioned
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and in his last will and testament and with that clear language and roger williams is a professed abolitionist but then with the lines but i read that that little boy ended up in slavery.
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>> at this point caitlin will jump in. thank you toby and everybody who has an watching, thank you for your attention. >> thank you so much and for everyone who joined us today. it's always fun to talk about new books, especially debut. don't forget to buy her book with a handy green button right here on the screen press that and support teefour so she can write more books it is a beautiful cycle. we look forward to seeing you in the future thank you again and have a great night
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everybody. >> thank you everybody. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪


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