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tv   New Day With John Berman and Brianna Keilar  CNN  February 1, 2022 4:00am-5:00am PST

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that data is still forthcoming, but the two-dose authorization request may come in very soon. >> so what do you think parents will do here? we have seen some reticence of folks to get their kids vaccinated, you know, for some people. i will not be one of them, to be clear. but do you think the parents are going to say, yeah, let's get this done? >> well, i could show you what has happened so far if you look sort of just based on the age groups that the vaccine has already been authorized for, you'll find that it really does go significantly down when you start to get into the 5 to 11-year-olds. 22% thus far have been vaccinated. i don't know. it's tough to say what that's going to mean for younger children. i think a lot of it will depend on sort of what's happening with the pandemic at any given point as well when the vaccine is authorized. let me show you weekly cases. we pulled this. people often asked me what is going on with children overall in terms of their likelihood of being infected with this.
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and can show you, it's very clear. omicron really changed the infection rates among children. it was sort of bouncing along there for some time. then when you got over the last month or so it really skyrocketed up. it's starting to come down now and people will pay attention to that and say what's happening in terms of their own willingness to get their own children vaccinated. but it's pretty clear when you look at some of these early trial results. we'll see what the fda specifically says, but when you look at some of the early trial results in terms of providing immunity for these children under the age of 5, the vaccine can be very effective. it can help prevent infection and potentially help prevent some of the long-term symptoms that we talk about as well. >> yeah. we said at the top, it could end the pandemic or this phase of the pandemic only if people take it. it will only have a public health impact if kids take it or parents let their kids take it. not 20% like we're seeing 5 to 11-year-olds. and sanjay, i'm sorry to go back on this again. the initial tests of the
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two-dose vaccine ages -- for the higher range, 2 to 5 or 2 to 4, didn't show much antibody production or didn't show much increase in boosted immunity. totally safe. they found it was totally safe which is why they're willing to give an authorization right now, but what's interesting to me is why move forward until they've seen data that it's protective? >> yeah. that is the big question. i think for up until just recently i think the thinking was let's wait to see what that third dose data sort of shows here. i think the belief is that, look, we have this other data from older children. we have seen what the boost the third dose might actually do. should we wait to get that third dose data which would be end of march or later than that or should we say based on the fact that we see that the safety data looks good, it's two doses while in six months and 24 months did
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provide good immune response. the older group did not get as strong an immune response. should we wait on the 2 to 5-year-old group or just give them the two doses now or get that authorization so that ball is rolling and then wait for the third dose information to come back. they may have to adjust the dosing ultimately on this. they may adjust the number of doses. we'll see. but the question do you wait for all that data to come back when you have the numbers of cases that i just showed you or do you just start getting things rolling? >> yeah. such an important question. i will tell you, i can't wait. i think the expectation for so many people things will go in that direction. that's the hope. before we let you go, sanjay, i want to talk about your latest episode of "chasing life" which focuses on memory. what can you tell us? >> you know, i've been fascinated with memory for a long time. i mean, i'm a neurosurgeon. i think memory is one of those things in the brain that it hits
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on so many different aspects of how the brain works. and people oftentimes have these various misconceptions about memory, what it's exactly supposed to do. what i really wanted to do in this podcast is talk to these memory researchers and talk to people who have both astounding memory, remarkable auto biographical memory, people who have challenges with their memory and see what the problem is. there's a guy memory expert at uc irvine i talked to quite a bit for this podcast. listen to what he said. >> i'm just wondering, what do you think is the biggest misconception about memory or some common misconceptions? >> so i think the first misconception is that any time that you forget or you reconstruct the memory that that's a memory problem. i would say -- no, it's really a feature of the system. evolutionarily got wired to do exactly that. and forgetting is a naturally
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and perfectly thing to have. forgetting is just as important as remembering, some might argue. >>. i thought afs a good way of putting it. people say i'm losing my memory all the time. i can't remember where i put my car keys. people will often say it's not a problem if you forget where you put your car keys. it's a problem if you start to forget what those keys are actually for. quick little tidbit there, but just fascinating podcast. >> i'll use that as an excuse, sanjay. forgetting is just as important as remembering. this is medically improved forgetting. >> don't worry about it. very good. sanjay, great to see you. thank you. we have a cnn exclusive. final lame duck weeks in office, donald trump's advisers drew up more than one executive order to seize voting machines. we knew one was crafted for the pentagon. what we learned overnight is
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there was another for the department of homeland security. also, "the new york times" reports that trump himself was directly involved. listen to this, quote, president donald j. trump directed his lawyer rudolph giuliani to make a remarkable call. mr. trump wanted him to ask the department of homeland security if it could legally take control of voting machines in key swing states. >> we also learned that some of the white house records that were handed over to the january 6th committee arrived torn up. it was trump who personally ripped them to pieces and they had to be taped back together by the national archive staff. sources tell cnn also that mark short, former vice president mike pence's chief of staff, testified before the house select committee last week which indicates that pence's team is cooperating with the probe. >> jennifer rogers joins us now. jennifer, the "times" reports that trump asked giuliani to call homeland security about seizing the voting machines.
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trump asked. what's the significance of the fact that trump appears to have been according, according to the times" directly involved here. >> john, this has always been the challenge, right, with looking at an investigation that would go all the way to the top of this particular scheme to overturn the election is how do you get evidence that president trump knew what he was doing, what everyone was looking at doing was illegal and he actually directed. it so here you now have the evidence as they gather evidence from people who were in the room during these discussions. you finally learn what the former president himself knew. so, it's crucial. if doj is ultimately to charge criminally former president trump, they need that state of mind evidence. they need his involvement. they need his direction. they need him to have known what he was asking for was illegal and to have ordered it. that's the evidence that's seemingly starting to come out. >> the significance of the fact that it was never carried out, the voting machines were not seized? >> not much. i mean, a conspiracy doesn't
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have to be completed. it's object doesn't have to be actually accomplished in order for the conspiracy to be illegal. the illegality is in the agreement to do the illegal thing. >> so, if you're merrick garland now and just reading what's in the public record, if you're just reading or the papers this morning, is this in and of itself enough to empanel a grand jury? >> well, nothing in the paper is going to be enough to actually charge the crime. to empanel a grand jury, yes, i think they certainly now have enough information, evidence coming out through public sources and through what the committee is working on that they can start a grand jury investigation. will he? he has? i don't know. >> the fact that there is enough right now, how unusual would it be not to start an investigation with this much publicly known? >> you know, john, this whole thing is unusual. we've never had a situation like
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this, an investigation like this, if there are charges, never been charges like this. so it's all new territory, but i personally think that he has to for the good of the country, you have to at least look at charging this kind of behavior. >> last question has to do with torn documents. the national archives reporting and also the january 6th committee that some of the records that were turned over from the trump white house now were torn up and taped together, which i guess is the way that trump operated inside the oval office, he would tear up papers on his desk. is that legal? >> this was reported at the time that that's how he did things. he would tear up documents and told him at the time he couldn't do it that way because everything needed to be preserved. it's not how it's supposed to be done. it's technically some violation of the presidential records act, but not the sort of thing that anyone is going to go after, especially given the bigger picture of what folks are looking at. >> jennifer rogers, i really appreciate this discussion.
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helps put it all in perspective. thank you very much. >> thanks, john. former president trump also teasing a run for re-election in 2024 and making this promise -- >> if i run and if i win, we will treat those people from january 6th fairly. we will treat them fairly. and if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons. because they are being treated so unfairly. >> joining us now is john mosley, one of the attorneys for kelly megs and stewart rhodes two members of the oath keepers. both have been charged with seditious conspiracy among other charges. john, thank you so much for joining us this morning. we certainly appreciate it. and i just want to know, since we last spoke, we've heard this overture from president trump. is this something that your
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clients welcome? >> to a lot of extent, yes. if candidate donald trump is a candidate is saying i'll give a blanket automatic pardon if you vote for me and support me, that could be a problem legally for him and there are some people that i wouldn't want to see a pardon from january 6th. talking about a case by case basis as an individual review, yes, i think they absolutely would support that. there are january 6th defendants who publicly said and they think trump should have done more for them. he could have pardoned some or all of them before he left office between january 6th and january 20 last year, help with legal defense. there's some grumbling and feeling he abandoned them. i'm not sure what people think he should have done in ifr case. there's a feeling he could have done more. now, the thing is, that would be three years from now. the criminal cases would be over. some people might still be
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serving sentences at that point. but i think it would definitely be welcome. we don't always know what trump means. he's not clear. maybe that's intentional. but, i think that as a general matter, yeah a lot of people think that depending on their individual circumstances he should do more. i don't know if he'll be re-elected or not, but i think that's their attitude. >> you think stewart rhodes and kelly meggs are candidates for a pardon? >> yes. because the government has admitted they committed no violence, didn't tangle with police and didn't danmage any property. the indictment doesn't say that. they admitted in writing. there are violent people i think should be in jail for a long time and wouldn't want to see them pardoned. who actually injured over 100 police officers and damaged property, broke windows. one idiot in particular i have in mind who making trouble for
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the proud boys in that regard, things like that. so if the president -- if re-elected if he would look as an individualized review one by one, i don't think that would be a problem. i'm not saying that people should quibble with people being treated fairly. the kavanaugh protesters got a 35 dollar fine. but, if he's talking about everybody getting an automatic pardon, i think that is -- that would be very troubling. again, it's not always clear what trump is saying. and i think he probably wants it that way. >> your clients planned for something, which is part of what they were seditious conspiracy charges. stewart rhodes, according to the indictment, this was new information, cashed weapons. right? he bought a lot of weapons. and the oath keepers cashed weapons in virginia with a quick reaction force so that they could respond.
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and all of this was in the words of the oath keepers what they had planned for. a civil war is what stewart rhodes said he was planning for. that's not nothing, john. >> well, i'm not saying it was nothing, but that's what's alleged. and i believe that will not be proven true at trial. and it is interesting because the one thing that stewart rhodes is very public about is that he thought that -- in terms of your previous story, that president trump would declare the insurrection act in terms of seizing the machines and things like that after the election to find out what happened in the election and that was a big part of what they had in mind there. and -- >> can i ask you, john, why did he and the other oath keepers think that? that trump was going to use the insurrection act or invoke the
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insurrection act? >> i don't know. i think that stewart rhodes was trying to get donald trump to think that. they were encouraging the theory. but i don't know that they actually thought it was a certainty. but it was a big part of their thinking and why they thought they needed to be prepared, but they didn't do those things. but that will have to come out at trial and things like that. now stewart rhodes is going -- you heard it here first, is going to appear before the committee tomorrow remotely at which his new defense criminal attorney will require him to plead the fifth for most of the questions. we're just figuring that out. so they're still looking into all of that. and i would not -- i realize that there are various crimes alleged in this thing, but if someone were violent or beat up police, i wouldn't be representing them. they may be -- the oath keepers and others are being charged as
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leaders. aiding and abetting or conspireing or inciting other people. and that's not nothing, no, it isn't. but we'll get into the evidence about that as it progresses. >> there is a lot of evidence to suggest the contrary that there were not violent intentions on the part of your clients. the weapons, which i mean the doj even leased pictures of some of the coconspirators, many, many weapons in virginia, cart loads of weapons that were part of a quick reaction force with the idea that they could be called into washington, d.c. i do want to ask you stewart rhodes' ex-wife we spoke with her -- this is what she said about how the oath keepers are going to hear what trump has
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said about the possibility of a pardon. let's listen. >> civil war, you know, to them this is the civil war they've been waiting for. you know a lot of these guys, a lot of these guys live for this. they've been waiting for this. they've been -- they spent their lives preparing for it. they look forward to it. there's an air of disappointment when it doesn't turn violence with these guys, i think. a lot of them. they hear it's their chance. they're afraid. he's speaking directly to the people who are afraid of being arrested now, i think. he's giving them an out. and now if they see this as their out. they see this as their -- if they give their support to their president, they might get away with something. they might get away with not being arrested or if they're later arrested they may be p
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par pardoned. >> is she right, john? >> well, i don't know anything about her and only known stewart rhodes for a little while. i suggested and i think trump is intentionally vague often. >> but you represent these clients and so you are positioned to talk about how they see this. is she correct in what she's saying about how they perceive this pardon? it doesn't sound too different what you said in your first answer. >> i think -- i don't think so. but like i said, i don't know anything about tasha and her relationship with stewart rhodes. but i say that a pardon couldn't come before three years from now if he were re-elected. would it motivate people to support his candidacy, perhaps. that could be problematic in various ways. but i'm asking right now for the actual documents of all these
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quotes. and i think it will show there are more observations than plans. they're saying things are going south. if i say it's going to snow, it doesn't mean i'm going to cause it to snow. that's where i think the evidence is going to come out. i think it's going to encourage them, but i think they know that their trials are going to be long over before trump could do that. so i think that these people are very worried about the state of our country, but i think they look at it more reactive than -- and being prepared than they do plan to -- >> i am going to quote your client, stewart rhodes, a massively bloody revolution against them. that's what's going to have to happen. sounds pretty proactive. you mentioned when i asked you where did your clients get this idea about trump invoking the insurrection act, and you seemed to indicate that it wasn't
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necessarily trump. it was your client roads who was trying to trump that idea? isn't that problematic for your client? doesn't that just prove the conspiracy that he was con concocting a plan based around invoking the insurrection act? >> well, trump, stewart rhodes very publicly issued open letters to trump, which is what i'm referring to. but that is a law. the insurrection act is an actual law. and if it applies and if it's used properly, that's not illegal. and trump didn't and the oath keepers didn't do anything in response. they didn't follow up on that. they left. >> no, john, they prepared for it. your client alone before january 6th purchased $15,000 in weapons, including an ar-platform rifle, sites, mounts, triggers and other things while he was traveling
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from texas. firearms and related supplies. you also had him purchasing stuff after january 6th. so, they prepared for this. they prepared very much for it. they had quick reaction forces in virginia so that they could bring weapons into d.c. if they saw fit in order to obviously escalate what might happen. and they entered the capitol. they trespassed. and you know it wasn't some peaceful little, you know, walking up the steps into the capitol. we have video that the doors were physically breached on the east side where they entered. they weren't allowed to be there and they knew that. >> no, you don't. the u.s. capitol police confirmed the 17 foot high solid brond bronze doors were not opened from the outside. >> they were opened from the inside by insurrectionists. >> they were opened, but not by
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my clients. >> after doors -- your client walked through -- your clients were there, walking through doors that had clearly been opened that they were not supposed to be in. you're saying, oh, they didn't do it. but they watched other people do it clearly where they were. but can you speak to that? they prepared, they prepared. speak to that. they prepared, your client in particular, with all of these thousands of dollars of weapons. >> well, owning guns is legal in the united states. he did prepare in case he was called up as the militia. he wasn't. and they conformed to that lack of a decision by president trump. >> no, no. it wasn't about trump. that's not true. you had -- you had valleo in virginia saying let me know. say the word is what he said. he was indicating he was ready. just say the word.
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stewart rhodes called people -- stewart rhodes called more people to the supreme court side of the capitol. >> where there was a permit of demonstration to be set up. that's what they were there to do. >> there was no permit to be where their clients were. they knew that. john, they had gone past barricades. they know that. they were in an area certainly they were not supposed to be that was forcibly entered. they went in there armed, kidded out like they were in the military. this was not a permit. don't tell me that they were permitted to be there. >> there were six permits on the capitol grounds. the capitol police released the permits. >> where was the permit for forcibly entering the east door of the capitol? >> they can't -- it's impossible to forcibly enter the columbus doors. it cannot be done as has been -- >> we're looking at pictures of
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broken glass and people struggling to get in. they did forcibly opened it. they forcibly opened it, moving benches on the inside. other participants here, and your clients walked through the door. clearly illegal. clearly illegal while they had a quick reaction force in virginia with thousands of dollars of weapons. >> i had lunch in the capitol for no reason. it's not illegal to go inside the capitol. >> did you breakthrough the window to get into lunch? >> hundreds of people do it everyday. so, the question -- we're getting into a lot of the weeds in terms of whether the signs making an exception that day were visible or not. but the fact that they commit nid violence in opening those doors. >> can we put up the picture of the broken glass, please, of the east doors. can we put up the video of that? let's put that up. john. >> but that's downstairs. >> no, it's not. >> that's downstairs.
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>> john, i'm sorry. you're their lawyer. you're their lawyer. you need to look at this video. so you should look at it after the interview. the east door. >> it's downstairs, half hour earlier. >> the oath keepers were aware of what was going on around the capitol. >> no, they were not. >> they were certainly aware of the forcible entry. >> no. >> they were aware of forcibly entries. >> this building is the size of a cruise ship. >> i've worked there. i've worked there. >> i cannot grasp -- >> i spent more time in the capitol than you, john. i spent considerably more time there, years. so, please take my word for it. >> i took -- all right. okay. we took -- the government gave us a tour on the 22nd. and i said, where is this broken window? they said nowhere around the doors. nowhere close -- the landing at the top and the center, they're not there. so, where you saw people coming through the window has nothing
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to do with the -- >> no. i'm showing video of the east side. that's what you're talking about. >> right. >> i'm not talking about the west side. i'm talking about the east side. last time we spoke, you tried to say that it was like they just walked in. what we have since seen and we see pictures here -- >> they did. >> no. they walked in through doors that had been forcibly opened from the inside by participants with windows in those doors that were broken. here is a picture of your client, kelly meggs walked through this door. there's no reasonable person or anyone with eyeballs, john, would think that that is okay to do. >> where are the windows? >> they're nowhere near that landing. >> really, i'm showing pictures of it. so i suppose you're not looking at that. >> i spoke with the capitol police -- we had a tour on the 22nd. i asked the capitol police, show me this window. it was -- >> you're talking about a different window, i think. i think you must be talking about a different window. this is a breached through which
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the oath keepers went. >> i asked them, where is this window? >> well, i think maybe you're looking for the wrong window. i think that's -- >> yes. because they're -- that window is at best downstairs under the thing. but it's apparently somewhere -- yes. people went in there and opened the door from the inside. that's true. but nothing to do with my clients. and -- >> yeah, they walked through that door. john, i do not feel like you're having a discussion in good faith with me. but i do appreciate you coming on today because i think -- no. i am. i'm looking at video. >> let's go talk to these capitol police. let's ask them to show us because i asked -- i was in a tour set up by the prosecution. >> i don't need, john. i have video. there's tape. i appreciate you being with us this morning. i do appreciate -- we have video of them. i do appreciate you joining us this morning. it was certainly interesting to get your response to the pardon
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proposal from the former president. >> thank you. >> thank you, john. >> sure. there was a lot there. but on that point you just made, the reaction to the pardon dangle there, they welcome it. i mean, that's everything, right? >> yeah. >> people being investigated, facing charges, saying sure. that sounds great. you can't tell me that's not going to affect the investigation, not going to affect their decision making. >> yeah. i also thought it was so interesting that, you know, yesterday when you spoke with tasha adams, stewart rhodes' ex-wife and she helped found the oath keepers with rhodes, she told you how they would receive it, receive it in a welcome way, it sounded very much like what the lawyer was saying there, what john mosley was saying. >> clearly impact what the former president is doing probably knowingly. other news this morning, nazis rallying in florida, multiple synagogues vandalized in chicago, daily acts of anti-semitism.
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california firefighter has died after being shot while battling a fire. captain max was a 21-year veteran. officials say they detained a 67-year-old man at the scene. cnn's camilla joins us with the details. what an awful story.
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>> yeah, john. this is a heart breaking story. and i want to start from the beginning. it was early monday morning when captain max was out essentially working on a dumpster fire. that's when he was shot. his fellow firefighters really tried to help him. they took him to the hospital, but that was not enough. police arrived on the scene and they arrested a 67-year-old man who had a 38 caliber handgun. he was taken to the county jail and is facing homicide and weapons charges. now, the family of the shooter telling local affiliates this was all a mistake. they say that he was the victim a lot of recent break-ins. i do want to make it clear, that police have not given a motive. they say this investigation is on going. but i do want to focus on capital max fortuna. he was 47 years old a father of two. a husband. the union president describing him as someone who enjoyed the job, who showed up to be a firefighter every single day and did not complain.
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i also want you to listen to what the fire chief had to say about this loss. >> this is my worst nightmare as the fire chief. this is a very, very sad day for this fire department. >> captain max fortuna was one of our heroes. he is a hero. this is a sobering reminder of the many sacrifices our firefighters make day in and day out in service to our community. >> and unfortunately this is just one of a number of incidents where we see first responders either killed or injured in the line of duty just this year. john? >> that's outrageous, our thoughts are with the family and the community. thank you. >> thank you. this morning whoopi goldberg apologizing after saying this -- >> the holocaust isn't about race. >> and chilling video of a
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this morning, the chicago jewish community on edge after two synagogues were vandalized after the weekend. they took place hours and blocks apart. one found images of swastikas on the side of the building and a young man reported being assaulted by the vandal on his way to the synagogue. they were called to the next synagogue a man trying to break a window and kicking the side of the building. they have a person of interest in custody who has not yet been charged. nazi symbols are also appearing at vaccination protests in canada and in florida where police are investigating an alleged assault involving white supremacists. cnn reporters are covering it
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all. >> reporter: disturbing videos of anti-semitic demonstrations from over the weekend in florida are drawing outrage and condemnation. cell phone video shows a group of demonstrators by the side of the road displaying nazi symbols and yelling anti-semitic slurs. one video captured a physical altercation involving some demonstrators and another person. lawmakers and officials are speaking out on social media. senator rick scott tweeted -- hateful and anti-semitic demonstrations reported in florida have no place in our state. orange county sheriff vows to thoroughly investigate any reports of criminal activity. >> reporter: paula newton in ottawa where the freedom convoy, the truckers protest continues to cause severe disruption. now, these are truckers and some others who believe that it is time that all health restrictions end and that includes vaccine and mask
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mandates. now, there have been some incidents, although it has been mostly peaceful. the prime minister, the mayor, the premier of ontario all calling out what they say are hateful acts and symbols and some harassment and vandalism. the truckers say they have dug in and will not move until those man datds are changed. >> joining me now is the american jewish committee u.s. director for fighting anti-semitism. holly, thank you so much for being with us. you've been tracking what's going on for the last few weeks and you say this is basically now just a daily occurrence. >> unfortunately we are seeing more and more of these incidents in the past couple of weeks even in january there were neo-nazis waving flags in florida there were synagogues defaced in chicago. right here in washington, d.c., where i'm based nazi swastikas on union station and jewish children spat on in new york and couple weeks ago the horrific hostage situation in
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colleyville, texas. this is part of a larger picture the last few years here in america. >> look, for generations we've been asking why? why is this happening? and you've been doing some polling on this. what you see is sort of a fundamental lack of understanding or appreciation that it is even happening. >> so, we found in our report american jewish committee started this report after the tree of life synagogue shooting in pittsburgh trying to figure out what's happening? what do american jews think? what does the general public think? do they know what anti-semitism is? are they aware that it's rising? and our polling has found that american jews are very concerned about anti-semitism, nine in ten think it's a problem in the united states. eight in ten believe it has increased in the last five years. and one in four have actually been the personal target of anti-semitism in the last year alone. and yet, one third of americans don't even know the word
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anti-semitism or aren't familiar with it, couldn't define it. only 44% of americans believe that it's increasing. so we really do have this divergence right now. >> look, i was speaking to a professor a few weeks ago says the term anti-semitism does a disservices call it jew hating and people would have a better understanding of what we're talking about there. i want to get your take, whoopi goldberg caused quite a stir when she said this on "the view." let's listen. >> the holocaust isn't about race. >> no. >> no. >> well -- >> they consider jews a different race. >> but it's not about race. these are two white groups of people. how do we -- >> you're missing the point. you're missing the point. the minute you turn it into race it goes down this alley. let's talk about it for what it is. it's how people treat each other. >> now to be clear, jews in germany and eastern europe were victims of racial purity laws
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quite literally. whoopi goldberg apologized completely. said she was wrong about that statement. but what did you hear there? >> well, we're thankful she apologized. unfortunately i don't know how many viewers of "the view" know about that apology. they might remember what she said. that's always the challenge when lies can actually spread so much faster than truth. but we know that race is a construct and the nazis used race as a way to annihilate 6 million of europe's jews. we're at a time where less and less americans know about the holocaust. we're seeing the holocaust trivialized against anti-mask mandates, anti-vaccine mandates this is so important as anti-semitism is rising we have to have truth where anti-semitism can lead that's why we need to speak this truth and at least are thankful that whoopi apologized. >> thank you for speaking the truth. thank you for being with us this morning, holly. >> thank you. so, did you get today's
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wordle? the creator of this hugely popular mind game just got a big payday. four tries today. four tries. a success for me. bad for jake tapper. that's his standard. senator ted cruz, the voice of the oppressed white man, very offended of president biden's commitment to nominate the first black woman to the supreme court. >> that's offensive. he's saying if you're a white guy, tough luck. ♪ - hiring is step one when it comes to our growth.
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♪ senator ted cruz joining other republicans and criticizing president biden's commitment to nominate the first black woman to the supreme court. >> the fact that he's willing to make a promise at the outset that it must be a black woman, i got to say that's offensive.
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>> right. >> you know, black women are, what, 6% of the u.s. population? he's saying to 94% of the americans i don't give a damn about you. you are ineligible and also saying -- it's actually an insult to black women. if he came and said i'm going to put the best jurist on the court and nominated a black woman, he could credibly say, okay, i'm nominating the person who is most qualified. he's not pretending to say that. if you're a white guy, tough luck. if you're a white woman, tough luck. you don't qualify. >> joining us now to discuss is former senator from illinois, carol mosley braun, the first black woman elected to the u.s. senate in 1992 and also served as a united states ambassador to new zealand and samoa. senator, thank you for being with us this morning. we do appreciate it. >> thank you so much. i'm delighted to be. thank you for having me. >> of course. i wonder what you thought about what ted cruz said there. >> well, as a black woman,
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lawyer, i am not offended. and why ted cruz would be is a mystery to me. but it just -- you know, he's just spouting nonsense of the 115 supreme court justices that we've had in the history of this country, 108 have been white males. so, you know, what he's upset about is mysterious and stupid, sorry. >> mysterious and stupid, you say. why do you -- could do you have an idea why he might be making that point, if you're a white male, now you're out of luck? >> he's race-baiting. this is the voice of white supremacy. quite frankly for him to say that, we would have preferred to have barack obama appoint the first black woman to the united states senate. of the 1,850 senators, i was first black woman elected to the senate and so now we have a chance to put a black woman on the supreme court. and the -- it is not just
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because she's black. it is because she will have had a series of life experiences that will inform the decisions of the court, in the same way, hopefully, that thurgood marshall was able to influence the warren court. so, you know, this is called progress. this is called making democracy real for people. and i just hope that we will continue and get a quick confirmation of one of the four that president biden is considering. >> so when you know when you decided to run for senate, as you well know, and recall, your qualifications were questioned. what was that like for you, and what do you think that's like for this nominee? >> well, that's the first place they go, by the way. is the qualifications. and quite frankly these women who have been -- whose names have been floated are at least as qualified if not more qualified than justice brett
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kavanaugh and amy coney barrett. they have the credentials and they plowed the ground. if you think about it, they had to come through dealing with both racism and sexism and still were able to succeed. so if anything, these are people who should be congratulated and commended for their successes instead of taken down and pot shotted over their credentials. >> you know, senator roger wicker said that whoever is picked will have been a beneficiary of affirmative action, but perhaps one of the more eye-popping things he said was, quote, we're going to go from a nice stately left wing liberal to someone who is probably more in the style of sonia sotomayor. why do you think he sees breyer as nice and stately, and yet in his opinion the first hispanic female justice is not, and he expects that the first black female justice, whose identity we don't even know yet, will not be nice and stately? >> i made the point earlier,
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this is the voice of white supremacy. they are -- they are pushing back, this is a backlash in terms of white supremacy and a time when we have seen a rise in anti-semitism. it is all the same stuff. this is the evil that our last president unleashed on the country. and it is called hatred of whatever, whatever the other is, you're going to hate it. and i just think that's just wrong. and we need to call it out for what it is, it is wrong, and make the point that people should be judged on the content of their character, and not the color of their skin. and in terms of this appointment, like i said, the black women, there has never been a black woman on the united states supreme court. we all had hoped that barack obama would make that first appointment. he didn't get to do it because his nomination among other things were held up. but the fact is that joe biden is -- in doing this, will be fulfilling a campaign pledge not only that he made, but that the
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democratic party has made to black -- to the black community. and to the whole country. again, i've got a different set of experiences. when i got to the united states senate, i brought a different set of experiences to that body, that i hope were helpful. we had had the confederate flag pattern removed over and over and over again until i stood up and said, this is offensive to black people who were held in slavery under this flag. and my colleagues finally got it and we wound up denying the pattern, thank goodness, but, again, that was something that passed unnoticed and undiscussed until i got there. so i think that having a black woman on the united states supreme court will help to inform decisions there in ways that will help the country to grow and to be better and fulfill the promise of democracy. that is what this is really about. are we going to have a democracy that works for everybody, or
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just for some people? >> well, we're at a historic moment and i know we'll speak more here in the coming weeks. former senator carol moseley braun, thank you for being with us. >> thank you so much for having me. shifting gears here, wordle, you might have heard of it, at least if you're on twitter you definitely heard of it. the online game has become a viral sensation. players get six tries to guess a five-letter word. it now has a new owner. the new york times purchased the game for a seven-figure price tag. joining us now is the general manager of games at the times, jonathan knight. i don't want to make this a hostile interview, but you need to answer the question that every wordle user wants to know. will you commit right here and now that forever more in perpetuity wordle will be free to everybody? >> thank you for having me. it is great to be here. yes, when wordle comes to the new york times, it will be free
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to play for everyone. >> that doesn't answer my question. when it comes to the new york times, it will be free. how about five years from now, ten years from now? >> i wish i had that kind of crystal ball, but i don't. >> so you won't commit that wordle will always be free. because it is free now. >> that's right. it is free. when it comes to the times, it will be free, and, yeah. >> this is being -- this is not a sherman-esque denial right now. >> i just -- yeah, it is hard for me to talk about anything five years in the future, ten years in the future. so, you know, all i can say is that the game will remain free when it comes to "the new york times". >> all right, the hostile part of the interview can be over now. >> i don't know. i want to ask one more question, jonathan, isn't that part of what is so wonderful about wordle, it is free for the masses? anyone can play it? >> it is. it is. absolutely. and that is not something that we would want to change and it
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is definitely one of the big reasons why it is so successful. and, you know, we're just excited to have this audience be introduced to "the new york times," to introduce "the new york times" to this game and so much value we're going to get from that. we're not thinking right now about limiting the game in any way. >> it seems to me you guys got a pretty good deal, right? do you -- i know seven figures, which is millions, by my count, i'm not good with math, but not tens of millions, for something that literally is all twitter talks about right now and has a vast following, it is not a bad deal. >> we're really excited. i mean, look, this game is really special. it is magical. it just doesn't happen very often that a game kind of captures the collective imagination, you know. it is an easy puzzle to play. it is quick, fits really well into your day. i wake up every morning thinking about it. i'm sure you do too, if you play it. and i love the fact that we're
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all trying to find the same five-letter word every day. it brings everybody together. and, you know, at a time when we need that, and, you know, it has a very special way that you share the game with your friends, families, colleagues and, yeah, we're thrilled, it is a magical little game. >> it is magical and isn't it also -- it is just odd to me it wasn't invented before, for how simple it is. >> well, i mean, like -- as often happens in games, it is, you know, a collection of different ideas that have been done before, but put together in a new and fresh way and that's what josh wordle, the creator, has done here. it is a small little game that feels like things that have been done before but the way you share it is innovative and you have the little green and yellow squares that tell a little story, frankly, about how you solved the puzzle and every little story is unique. and yet it doesn't give away the
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answer, but it tells the story of how you got to the answer. that's just very clever. it feels great. it is only one word a day. specifically limited it and that sort of scarcity, i think, makes it special. it is six tries. not five. it is not seven. there is just a lot of special little knee audiences that he pulled together and in a great package. >> are you going to keep it one word a day? >> we are absolutely not changing that. and, look, i would say generally we're super committed to, like, continuing the things that make this game special. >> well, jonathan knight, i appreciate you being with us. >> can i ask one more quick question? >> only if it is 20 seconds or shorter. >> what is your opening word, jonathan? >> mine is raise. r-a-i-s-e. i go with the vowel strategy. it tends to get me threes and
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fours pretty consistently. >> good to know. >> that's really good. that's better than mine. >> a good one. >> jonathan knight, thank you very much for being with us. >> thanks for having me. thanks so much. "new day" continues right now. good morning to our viewers here in the united states and all around the world. it is tuesday, february 1st. i'm john berman with brianna keilar. and we do begin with a cnn exclusive. donald trump's advisers drafted more than one executive order to seize voting machines during the former president's final weeks in office. there was one order for the pentagon, we had known about that. overnight, cnn reporting on another for homeland security. and we're just learning about the homeland security request right now. so "the new york times" also reporting overnight that trump himself was direct


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